NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm a freethinker theist,as in I am a freethinker who believes in some sort of higher force and Cosmic Mind/God/Allah/whatever you want to call it.I'm also a guy who investigates and believes in the paranormal and had experiential evidence,that is personal experiences that have helped in convincing me,as well as scientific evidence of other forms of existence after death,an afterlife,as it is traditionally referred to.

However,given the vast scope of religious texts out there all claiming to be the TRUE interpretation of God's/Allahs' words,and how we will all go to Hell if we don't believe,I would like to ask the Christians on these forums to present rational or philosophical arguments and proofs that THEIR God,as in the God listed in the Bible is THE entity that created the universe.

For example,in Hinduism,it is said in their texts that no matter which God you pray to,in the end you are praying to Lord Krishna,so whether you like it or not,you all are actually Hindues.FYI,all the Hindu gods are part of the same God,different aspects of one Supreme Being.Similarly,Jesus your prophet(I don't know whether he was the Son of God or not,but he sure as hell had some pretty good teachings regarding compassion for your fellow human) said that "My father has many halls" or something to that effect.

However,in most religious texts,such as the Koran and the Bible,they say that us unbelievers will go to Hell,where we will be whipped and chained and have fire scorch our arses.Since I am partial to BDSM,I wouldn't really mind that much,please there would be plenty of naked chicks getting whipped,and I like hot temperatures and the smel of brimstone.


However,to any Muslims or Christians in these forums,please present to me philosophical and rational proofs that YOUR god is the TRUE god.

Atheists,feel free to post and point out the weaknesses in their arguments.Your beliefs(Atheists and Christians) are just that,beliefs,based on subjective evidence,not objective or rational proofs or experiential proofs,often based on dogma.Show me the logic in believing that YOUR God is the True God.

Nice question. I look forward to hearing an answer. Although I reckon the emphasis on whether the Christian is the Only, or at least the most True God, isn't that important. If what Christian prophets/disciples say is true, the God of the Christians is one that they'd worship for his kindness and words of wisdom regardless of any higher entity.

People say atheism requires faith. Atheism isn't a belief. It's a lack of belief.
I'm sure no one here believes in invisible pink unicorns, but since we cannot prove they don't exist, are we obliged to consider the possibility they do? Is it all finged on faith?
The burden of proof lies with those who believe.

I'm going to continue to push my new church (www.apatheticagnostic.com)

Well, I can prove that my god is the True God. But I'll have to shoot you.

When you die, you'll know that I'm right. If I am, don't bother coming back. I'll see you soon. But if I'm wrong, you know, if you meet Buddha or Krishna or something, just come back and complain okay?

*loads the .38*

Well I’m a catholic :p, I believe in the Jewish/Christian God, not coz of any special evidence to his existence. I just believe the ideals behind the bible. Don't you agree that if people would be as good as Jesus told them to, this would be quite a fantastic world? :p

That's a utopian idea though. But I believe that tryin to be good is nothin bad :cool:

Plus, as far as i know, the official catholic Bible interpretations (the ones I agree with at least :D) tell us, that you don't actually have to BELIEVE in God to go to Heaven after death. You just got to be 'good enough', that's all. And that's not much easier for Christians.

And an interpretation of hell - the furry-devil filled fiery hell concept is kinda... medievalish? I do realise that was an official interpretation back then, but things like the Cathilic Church were quite fucked up back then if you get my meaning...

The way I (and a few theologists i know) see it - isn't the fact you're not worthy to be with most perfect creature in the universe, that you are disconnected from it for all eternity quite a spiritual hell as it is? Worse than chais and whips 4 me :D

This proof cannot be objective - it has to be subjective. If any religion had total objective proof that it was true and its God was the one and only (or ones and only, or whatever) then surely even creatures as flawed and inconsistant as human beings wouldnt have trouble believing it absolutely? The fact that it is subjective means that it requires personal effort, God doesnt have to find you 'cos he's there all the time and knows everything
that there is to know about you - but to find him you gotta open your eyes and look.

Therefore I wholeheartedly reccomend reading the Gospel according to Mark. This is generally accepted to be the oldest of the gospels (~60AD, I think) and was written for a world who already misunderstood Jesus and who he was. (Just like today, then) If you wanna find something, first you've gotta look for it. Looking in the right place often helps too...

The whipping & fire 'n' brimstone malarky is just medieval rubbish made up to scare kiddies - what makes hell hellish is complete and eternal seperation from God's love. Nothing good can ever happen there, so theres no point in getting horny about it ;)

If what Christian prophets/disciples say is true, the God of the Christians is one that they'd worship for his kindness and words of wisdom regardless of any higher entity.
Yeah, but surely if what Christian prophets/disciples say is true then there IS no higher entity, because God says there isnt?

The whipping & fire 'n' brimstone malarky is just medieval rubbish made up to scare kiddies - what makes hell hellish is complete and eternal seperation from God's love. Nothing good can ever happen there, so theres no point in getting horny about it ;)


Hurray for medieval BDSM rubbish! :p

Quite an interesting topic, I just got a similar talk with an exorcist a few days ago :p

as far as i know, the official catholic Bible interpretations (the ones I agree with at least :D) tell us, that you don't actually have to BELIEVE in God to go to Heaven after death. You just got to be 'good enough', that's all. Now I don't know about any "official catholic Bible interpretations" but the Bible translations I know & love do tend to have a continuous theme running through them: That we are all bound to sin until the day that we die. And we love it. We relish in sin's dark allure. And sin, being the opposite of Godliness, is the sworn enemy of God. There is no one who is without sin. The entire reason Christ had to come to die is because The punishment for sin is death. Horrible death. This is God's law. Yet despite this, he still loved (and loves) each and every one of us enough to send his only son to die in our place, that we might be forgiven of all our sin, no matter how vile, if we only ask. And then, on our death, that each and every one of us might be born again into glory to bask in the presence of Almighty God for evermore! NO ONE is good enough to achieve this on their own. Everyone has sinned, and will continue to sin. There is nothing that a human can do to make up for even the 'mildest' of sins. God alone has the power to forgive, and such forgiveness is entirely his doing.

...the catholic church always confused me anyhow, what with all its blatantly non-biblical based teachings, like Confession, Purgatory, and praying to saints...

Edit: Sorry if this came across as a "you're wrong dammit!" rant, its nothing personal but I really dont understand why the catholic church teaches some of the things it does with really no biblical justification that I can see.

I'm a freethinker theist,as in I am a freethinker who believes in some sort of higher force and Cosmic Mind/God/Allah/whatever you want to call it.I'm also a guy who investigates and believes in the paranormal and had experiential evidence,that is personal experiences that have helped in convincing me,as well as scientific evidence of other forms of existence after death,an afterlife,as it is traditionally referred to.

However,given the vast scope of religious texts out there all claiming to be the TRUE interpretation of God's/Allahs' words,and how we will all go to Hell if we don't believe,I would like to ask the Christians on these forums to present rational or philosophical arguments and proofs that THEIR God,as in the God listed in the Bible is THE entity that created the universe.

For example,in Hinduism,it is said in their texts that no matter which God you pray to,in the end you are praying to Lord Krishna,so whether you like it or not,you all are actually Hindues.FYI,all the Hindu gods are part of the same God,different aspects of one Supreme Being.Similarly,Jesus your prophet(I don't know whether he was the Son of God or not,but he sure as hell had some pretty good teachings regarding compassion for your fellow human) said that "My father has many halls" or something to that effect.

However,in most religious texts,such as the Koran and the Bible,they say that us unbelievers will go to Hell,where we will be whipped and chained and have fire scorch our arses.Since I am partial to BDSM,I wouldn't really mind that much,please there would be plenty of naked chicks getting whipped,and I like hot temperatures and the smel of brimstone.


However,to any Muslims or Christians in these forums,please present to me philosophical and rational proofs that YOUR god is the TRUE god.

Atheists,feel free to post and point out the weaknesses in their arguments.Your beliefs(Atheists and Christians) are just that,beliefs,based on subjective evidence,not objective or rational proofs or experiential proofs,often based on dogma.Show me the logic in believing that YOUR God is the True God.
INFIDEL!!!!!! You are going to HELL!!!!!! Where the air is pungent with the aroma of roasted behinds!!!!!! Hell, where the softest bits of your nether regions are everybody else's favourite lunch! Yes, HELL, where Satan belches fire, and enormous devils break wind both night and day!!!!!! Where the mind is never free from the torments of remorse, and your bottom never free from the pricking of little forks!!!!!!

Is that Monty Python? If so, then thanks, thats REAAAAAALY helpful...

Is that Monty Python? If so, then thanks, thats REAAAAAALY helpful...
:D It's Blackadder. And your welcome.

Ah... Blackadder.

Mr. Bean with balls. :)

Ah... Blackadder.

Mr. Bean with balls. :)
And he talks too.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
i hate to be involved in a classic game of 'we're right, you're wrong' so i'll do my best not to take the bait and do my best to give my point of view. The very fact that you ask for other people to provide proof for you brings me to decide that you may view it in a somewhat scientific and 'cold' way and are probably dismissive of any sort of 'passion' that i see most religious people display. Therefore i recall two things
1. somewhere it says something to the extent of ' You shouldn't go about trying to spread the word of god by way of elaborate logic or fancy explanations' basically what most televangelists do....
2. i don't know where i heard or read it but i heard someone say somethign to the extint of 'people are in such a rush and want to see selfish miracles that they miss all the 'little' miracles.'

I just don't think people can go around with the expectation to understand the whole of existence. I don't even go to church and even i recognize how pointless it is to ask other mortals where god is. :)

Wow, I would never expect to see this controversial discussion here on this message board. Well, okay, yeah I would cause this is a game about nations and all nations discuss and debate these topics all the time.

I just wanted to say that the argument is a good argument. But, like what alot of what I have been seeing involves the discussion on faith, not belief or religon. Alot of what we do in life is all based upon faith. We have faith that when we put our feet on the ground that we will not fall down. We put faith in a chair hoping that when we sit, the chair will not crumble under us. We put faith in our co-workers, our cars, our houses, our electricty, and we even put faith in paper that we pass around as a currency hoping that it will worth something to get the item that we want or need. This all comes true to Chrisitanity. We may have a belief in something but the question is, "Do I have faith in God?"

Christianity should never be looked upon as a religon. Christianity was always based upon the relationship that we have with God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son of God and Man, or the Holy Spirt of God. Jesus, always called us His Brothers and Disciples. There were times that even refered to us as His students. God always refers to us as His Children. Nothing more and nothing less. So, if we have the titlement of Child, Son, Daughter, Brother, or even Sister. How can we claim it as a religon, when God is looking to be our Father. Because, He is the one that gave us life in the beginning of time.

But, I also realize that alot of you need proof to understand or to even believe. Can you see the wind at when it blows? No, but you can see the effects that it has on things of this world. You can see the leaves on the trees blow, the dust stir, and even feel it on your skin. It is the same way with God. You may not be able to Him. But, you can see the effects that He has on people, on animals, and on all things of this world. You want more proof? Take a look at the grave. Buddha, Mohammad, and all the other so called gods or saviors are still in that gave that they were buried in many years ago, with their flesh rotting away to return to the Earth from which it came from. But, the tomb that Jesus was buried in is empty. There are no remains in the tomb. If you remember the story, Mary Magaline was the first to see Jesus in the garden after he arose from the grave. So, the tomb is empty.

Now I don't know about any "official catholic Bible interpretations" but the Bible translations I know & love do tend to have a continuous theme running through them: That we are all bound to sin until the day that we die. And we love it. We relish in sin's dark allure. And sin, being the opposite of Godliness, is the sworn enemy of God. There is no one who is without sin. The entire reason Christ had to come to die is because The punishment for sin is death. Horrible death. This is God's law. Yet despite this, he still loved (and loves) each and every one of us enough to send his only son to die in our place, that we might be forgiven of all our sin, no matter how vile, if we only ask. And then, on our death, that each and every one of us might be born again into glory to bask in the presence of Almighty God for evermore! NO ONE is good enough to achieve this on their own. Everyone has sinned, and will continue to sin. There is nothing that a human can do to make up for even the 'mildest' of sins. God alone has the power to forgive, and such forgiveness is entirely his doing.

...the catholic church always confused me anyhow, what with all its blatantly non-biblical based teachings, like Confession, Purgatory, and praying to saints...

Edit: Sorry if this came across as a "you're wrong dammit!" rant, its nothing personal but I really dont understand why the catholic church teaches some of the things it does with really no biblical justification that I can see.

The interpretations i'm talking about are those of the current Pope (I find him a very good man). I'm not saying the catholic church is in anyway better than anything. They're good as long as they don't burn anyone :D. I've got nothing against confession, purgatory - yeah, that might be and maybe is pure bullshit, praying a few times more isn't too bad i guess. They're doing their best :D Praying to saints - as far as i know, that's asking them for some kind of an 'inspiration' (catholic ‘saints’ are those that are thought to be 100% worthy of heaven so they're a good authority :D), not praying in the sense of 'worshiping'.

It is not known as to whether God created the universe (or even if it excists as we know it), all that is known is He created life on Earth. It could even be argued that the Earth excisted before God put Humanity and life upon it.

It is not known as to whether God created the universe (or even if it excists as we know it), all that is known is He created life on Earth. It could even be argued that the Earth excisted before God put Humanity and life upon it.

What really happened was that mankind discovers time travel, goes back in time, and creates itself!

It is not known as to whether God created the universe (or even if it excists as we know it), all that is known is He created life on Earth. It could even be argued that the Earth excisted before God put Humanity and life upon it.

Known? Where was I when somebody proved that?? :D (I't not known to me, but i believe it :D)

The Great Pink Unicorn is above such mortal concepts as proof.

Christianity should never be looked upon as a religon. Christianity was always based upon the relationship that we have with God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son of God and Man, or the Holy Spirt of God.

Christianity is a religion, for its an institutionalized system grounded in theistic belief, dogma and worship


But, I also realize that alot of you need proof to understand or to even believe. Can you see the wind at when it blows? No, but you can see the effects that it has on things of this world.

You can feel the wind against your skin, and witness it's effects. However, there is no such sensory imput recieved from any deity, nor are the effects of divine influnce ever observed.


Take a look at the grave. Buddha, Mohammad, and all the other so called gods or saviors are still in that gave that they were buried in many years ago, with their flesh rotting away to return to the Earth from which it came from. But, the tomb that Jesus was buried in is empty. There are no remains in the tomb.

Unlike Buddha and Mohammad, there's no real historical evidence of Jesus ever existing (everything is written 60 years after his supposed life). He was merely frankensteined out of pagan gods by the Roman aristocracy to placate the slaves. There's no tomb of Thor, so he must be the real deal. Solid logic.

However,given the vast scope of religious texts out there all claiming to be the TRUE interpretation of God's/Allahs' words,and how we will all go to Hell if we don't believe,I would like to ask the Christians on these forums to present rational or philosophical arguments and proofs that THEIR God,as in the God listed in the Bible is THE entity that created the universe.

However,in most religious texts,such as the Koran and the Bible,they say that us unbelievers will go to Hell,where we will be whipped and chained and have fire scorch our arses.Since I am partial to BDSM,I wouldn't really mind that much,please there would be plenty of naked chicks getting whipped,and I like hot temperatures and the smel of brimstone.

However,to any Muslims or Christians in these forums,please present to me philosophical and rational proofs that YOUR god is the TRUE god.

Atheists,feel free to post and point out the weaknesses in their arguments.Your beliefs(Atheists and Christians) are just that,beliefs,based on subjective evidence,not objective or rational proofs or experiential proofs,often based on dogma.Show me the logic in believing that YOUR God is the True God.

Subjective evidence - yes, but as the only 'objective' evidence we have is for a handful of insignificant logical truths, that doesn't matter very much.
Although I don't want to do you out seeing naughty girls getting whipped, I think the whole Heaven/Hell thing is a distraction which needs to be dealt with. You believe in an afterlife of some sort, yes?
Okay - that life is going to depend on the people around you. Even on earth, with a lifespan of a few decades, we mould this planet to our desires: sometimes this is a good thing, sometimes this is bad. With immortality to play with, what is the afterlife going to be like?
Like earth, only more so. Christians will follow Christ's command to 'heal the sick, feed the hungry, preach the gospel'. Jews will continue to be the lifeblood of cultural development. Under those two influences, the Spiritual West is going to thrive - and become Heavenly.
Where else in the mortal world is improving by it's own efforts? Nowhere. Marxism was an attempt to get the cultural benefits of Christianity without the 'superstitious element' - and didn't that work out just fine. Asian and Afrian cultures are a mess: despite wellmeaning and dedicated people, the non-Christian world just isn't getting anywhere worth going to.
(Of course, since we're talking about immortals here, it's worth noting that the high point of Islamic culture, 8th-12th Centuries, will still exist. But who are they going to prefer to deal with? Certainly not the modern Islamic world, which they would just find embarrassing. But given that the Moslems of that era were proud of their links to the Jewish and Christian faiths, they would probably want to deal with other 'Peoples of the Book' - and be part of the West).
And remember, with immortality, you can't just kill the Hitlers and Stalins - they'll be dragging their parts of society down with them.
So, yeah - Heaven and Hell - inevitable, if you accept that people shape their world.
God? Well, the failure of Marxism indicates something. Marx wanted a society very like the Christian ideal: but failed. The element he removed was God. So why is God necessary? Can He be necessary without existing? If so, does He really need to exist?
(Actually: Assume that an all powerful being does not exist. If He is all powerful, He can will himself into existence, yes? So if God doesn't exist, He'll just will himself into existence, ending the problem, yes? If He can't will himself into existence, how to subatomic particles manage the trick?)
As for multiple holy texts going on about unbelievers going to Hell - no. That's propoganda by semi-literate priests. The Koran condemns those who hear and reject the truth. The Bible condemns those who accept the truth but who are tempted away. Neither book condemns those who never hear/have no reason to believe (althought the Bible grieves over those who are lost through lack of knowledge, which could be interpreted that way if you're in a vindictive mood, I guess).
God - what was Voltaire's parody? "God made man in his own image, and Man returned the favour." Saying that God doesn't exist is very like looking in the mirror and denying your own existence: or more precisely, your own humanity. And it's notable that when believers go wrong (which we all do) it tends to be with very human failings - while athiestic societies tend to become very inhuman, and start treating people as machines.
God - created the world. Who has re-created the world? Generally believers, both Saints remaking society and scientists showing us the world. Yes, there are famous athiest scientists: but they aren't the most creative. Which scientist is most commonly quoted to challenge Christians? Darwin - the devout Anglican!
Why did science thrive in the West? Science is 'true' in that is is the best means we have of understanding the world. A basic assumption of science is that the world operates by unchanging rules which apply everywhere. This is not a philosophical necessity: it is a religous belief, a result of the belief that the world was created by a God who would not contradict himself. Science could not grow in a pagan worldview because multiple gods meant multiple contradicting rules: it was pointless looking for underlying rules. Despite protestations of independence from religion, scientists still obey the rules of faith when they look for a 'grand unifying theory'. If the universe sprang from chaos, then there is no necessity for quantum mechanics and astrophysics to obey the same laws - springing independently from chaos, they can operate independently. Yet scientists will not accept that, and if they do, are they still scientists? Science seeks the laws of the universe - but laws require a lawmaker.

There are various philosophical points, and I would recommend considering the historical evidence. But for Christianity, the question is: whose side are you on? "The world" as we call it: those with power and resources, who can do as they please? Or the poor, the downtrodden: those who cannot speak for themselves, who are belittled and friendless; because no one speaks for them no one hears their case; becuase no one hears their case no one aids them, heals them, or speaks for them. The rallying point of the second group is a broken body nailed to a cross - and whether you can believe as we do that he rose from the dead, I hope you will join us in insuring that others like him are nursed back to health and have a chance for the future.

God Bless!

Unlike Buddha and Mohammad, there's no real historical evidence of Jesus ever existing (everything is written 60 years after his supposed life). He was merely frankensteined out of pagan gods by the Roman aristocracy to placate the slaves. There's no tomb of Thor, so he must be the real deal. Solid logic.

Guys called Plinius, Joseph Flavius, Swetonius (not sure i spellt their names correctly), claim that Christ did live - each and every one of them claimed that before the '60 year standard' you're talking about. Plus - is assuming they all lied solid logic? What woud be their motive to do that?

Unlike Buddha and Mohammad, there's no real historical evidence of Jesus ever existing (everything is written 60 years after his supposed life). He was merely frankensteined out of pagan gods by the Roman aristocracy to placate the slaves. There's no tomb of Thor, so he must be the real deal. Solid logic.
Sorry - 100 years ago, you could have claimed that. But the figures continue to be pushed back as earlier documents are found. The earliest copies we have are now within 30 years after his life. Well within the lifetimes of those who knew him.
As for the Roman aristocracy creating Christianity - yeah right! If they had, why did they persecute the religion so heavily? Would Roman aristocrats have created a fiath which refused to worship pagan gods?
As for Thor - assuming a guy called Thor existed (possible) there is no reason for people to have cared about his tomb. However the Roman authorities had a great deal of motivation to proof that Jesus was dead, as he was a condemned criminal. They'd have hung his corpse up on a cross again to prove his deth - if they'd had it.
I'm off to bed. Night!

Well, I can prove that my god is the True God. But I'll have to shoot you.

When you die, you'll know that I'm right. If I am, don't bother coming back. I'll see you soon. But if I'm wrong, you know, if you meet Buddha or Krishna or something, just come back and complain okay?

*loads the .38*

Actually, you wouldn't meet Buddha when you die, at least in the Buddhist view. Buddhism doesn't state that Buddha is a god, which is the biggest misconception about the religion. To put it in familiar terms, Buddha is to Buddhists what a saint is to a Christian (mostly Catholic, methinks). Sure, you have the option to pray to a saint, and you're free to do so. But you're not worshipping the saint, are you? It's the same in Buddhism. When you see a video clip of Buddhist monks praying in front of a Buddha statue, they're not going "Please Buddha let me into nirvana". It's more or less of a "hey, thanks for the advice" kind of thing. Just thought I'd clear that up.

If anyone doesn't believe me, let me tell you two things: Firstly, yes, I would know, because I'm a Buddhist. Secondly, read Steve Hagen's Buddhism Plain and Simple. It offers a great explanation on Buddhist beliefs, without all the cultural trappings and stereotypical misgivings.

Well, I can prove that my god is the True God. But I'll have to shoot you.

When you die, you'll know that I'm right. If I am, don't bother coming back. I'll see you soon. But if I'm wrong, you know, if you meet Buddha or Krishna or something, just come back and complain okay?

*loads the .38*

"I'll prove that you're a witch or not. If you drown, you weren't and may your soul rest in peace, if you float we'll burn you for being a witch" ...

Now I don't know about any "official catholic Bible interpretations" but the Bible translations I know & love do tend to have a continuous theme running through them: That we are all bound to sin until the day that we die. And we love it. We relish in sin's dark allure. And sin, being the opposite of Godliness, is the sworn enemy of God. There is no one who is without sin. The entire reason Christ had to come to die is because The punishment for sin is death. Horrible death. This is God's law. Yet despite this, he still loved (and loves) each and every one of us enough to send his only son to die in our place, that we might be forgiven of all our sin, no matter how vile, if we only ask. And then, on our death, that each and every one of us might be born again into glory to bask in the presence of Almighty God for evermore! NO ONE is good enough to achieve this on their own. Everyone has sinned, and will continue to sin. There is nothing that a human can do to make up for even the 'mildest' of sins. God alone has the power to forgive, and such forgiveness is entirely his doing.

...the catholic church always confused me anyhow, what with all its blatantly non-biblical based teachings, like Confession, Purgatory, and praying to saints...

Edit: Sorry if this came across as a "you're wrong dammit!" rant, its nothing personal but I really dont understand why the catholic church teaches some of the things it does with really no biblical justification that I can see.

death death death death, what about life? or is life an hors d'oevre before we get to the main course being purgatory and hell?

I'm a freethinker theist,as in I am a freethinker who believes in some sort of higher force and Cosmic Mind/God/Allah/whatever you want to call it.I'm also a guy who investigates and believes in the paranormal and had experiential evidence,that is personal experiences that have helped in convincing me,as well as scientific evidence of other forms of existence after death,an afterlife,as it is traditionally referred to.

However,given the vast scope of religious texts out there all claiming to be the TRUE interpretation of God's/Allahs' words,and how we will all go to Hell if we don't believe,I would like to ask the Christians on these forums to present rational or philosophical arguments and proofs that THEIR God,as in the God listed in the Bible is THE entity that created the universe.

For example,in Hinduism,it is said in their texts that no matter which God you pray to,in the end you are praying to Lord Krishna,so whether you like it or not,you all are actually Hindues.FYI,all the Hindu gods are part of the same God,different aspects of one Supreme Being.Similarly,Jesus your prophet(I don't know whether he was the Son of God or not,but he sure as hell had some pretty good teachings regarding compassion for your fellow human) said that "My father has many halls" or something to that effect.

However,in most religious texts,such as the Koran and the Bible,they say that us unbelievers will go to Hell,where we will be whipped and chained and have fire scorch our arses.Since I am partial to BDSM,I wouldn't really mind that much,please there would be plenty of naked chicks getting whipped,and I like hot temperatures and the smel of brimstone.


However,to any Muslims or Christians in these forums,please present to me philosophical and rational proofs that YOUR god is the TRUE god.

Atheists,feel free to post and point out the weaknesses in their arguments.Your beliefs(Atheists and Christians) are just that,beliefs,based on subjective evidence,not objective or rational proofs or experiential proofs,often based on dogma.Show me the logic in believing that YOUR God is the True God.

If you ask an so called enlightened hindu brahman he would tell you that no matter what god you pray to that god is an aspect of BRAHMA, this belief is not shared by all hindi.

I can´t give you proof that my belief is the right one just as you can´t give me proof that yours is. That´s why it´s called religious belief not religious knowledge.

wow Woden the saxon god he is master of the wind

[QUOTE]Unlike Buddha and Mohammad, there's no real historical evidence of Jesus ever existing (everything is written 60 years after his supposed life). He was merely frankensteined out of pagan gods by the Roman aristocracy to placate the slaves. There's no tomb of Thor, so he must be the real deal. Solid logic.

jesus is in the koran how can they support him if he dosent exist because that would prove that that was a sham as well and its more like 30 years 60+ from birth you cant believe in Thor without Woden,Frig,or Tuew

People say atheism requires faith. Atheism isn't a belief. It's a lack of belief.
I'm sure no one here believes in invisible pink unicorns, but since we cannot prove they don't exist, are we obliged to consider the possibility they do? Is it all finged on faith?
The burden of proof lies with those who believe.

Atheism is a belief. It is not saying 'I do not believe in God'. An atheist is saying 'I believe that there is no God'