NationStates Jolt Archive

Some Libertarians are backing Bush instead of Badnarik. What do you think of them and there reasons for supporting Bush. www.libertariansforbush.com

Most republicans are Libertarians as far as NationStates goes so wouldn't surprise me.
Everytime one asks what they are they say they are that party. Even though they are with Bush 100%.
Example Biff.

Some Libertarians are backing Bush instead of Badnarik. What do you think of them and there reasons for supporting Bush. www.libertariansforbush.com

Why? Because the race is so close and Kerry would be a disaster. He is damn scary.

I think the republicans share the same platform as the libertarians - at least it used to be that way, in theory at any rate...

Hmmm. I thought libertarians were supposed to be all about less government interference in people's lives?

libertarians voting for bush - or most republicans for that matter, just shows how unlibertarian they are. or at least that the whole civil rights aspect of right-libertarianism sits way at the back of the bus compared to their corporatist impulses. not that kerry would be any better, but actively going out to endorse a man whose administration implemented indefinite detention of us citizens without charges or the right to an attorney, who wants to have state security forces monitor everyone in the country as much as possible, tried to justify torture, may have implemented it as a policy or at least turned a blind eye to it, and engaged in a fucking 'pre-emptive war' (what was that about 'non-initiation of force'?) just makes you a fascist, no matter what you call yourself. back in the day fascists liked to appropriate the language of socialists because that was what was popular among the people. today it seems they appropriate the language of liberty.

Libertarians for Bush is similiar to how there is Greens for Kerry. It does not matter what party you are a member of you still can vote however you like for whatever reason you choose to. There are Constitutional party voter's that will vote for Bush along with Socialist and Communist party personnel voting for Kerry. Actually I love the fact you do not have to vote for you're own party or any other restriction on you. Your free to vote for your dog if you like (it just wont get counted). Damn if I could convince about 150 million more people that my dog is the most caring and loving creature on this earth he likes the taste of republicans, democrats , greens, libertarians heck he doesn't discriminate against anyone.

Why? Because the race is so close and Kerry would be a disaster. He is damn scary. As opposed to Bush? Yikes, his administration is so transparently corrupt and self-serving, it is sickening.

but anyways, why would libertarians support Bush? He's not really a fiscal conservative--he seems to combine expansive, rightwing (compassionate conservative) encroachment socially with a fiscal agenda that essentially pays off big business (ie. medicare package). he's actually promoting a gigantic government and being disingenuous about it--he bleeds social programs, calling them wasteful, while promoting his own wasterful and expensive programs.

As opposed to Bush? Yikes, his administration is so transparently corrupt and self-serving, it is sickening.

but anyways, why would libertarians support Bush? He's not really a fiscal conservative--he seems to combine expansive, rightwing (compassionate conservative) encroachment socially with a fiscal agenda that essentially pays off big business (ie. medicare package). he's actually promoting a gigantic government and being disingenuous about it--he bleeds social programs, calling them wasteful, while promoting his own wasterful and expensive programs.
Because he isn't Kerry? That is the only reason they vote for Bush because he isn't Kerry and they would rather have a known bad(or evil) if you think he is than a guy they don't know. Personally I'd take the guy you don't know, at least you can't blame yourself for the bad(or evil) he does. If you know Bush is bad but you vote for him then its your fault he does what he does.

As a Libertarian, I support Bush because of the fact that he isn't John Kerry and has a snowball's chance of winning.
Badnarik isn't going to win. I'd like to pretend he could, but their are too many welfare babies, AARP members, christian conservatives, etc. in the country for him to pull it off.
Bush, however, has cut taxes, doesn't view health care as a right, believes in a strong American military, doesn't bow to the U.N.'s every whim, etc.

*wonders why on earth libertarians would back an authoritarian conservative?*

It makes perfect sense once you learn to look past the typical libertarian smokescreen of "liberty" rhethoric. They don't give a rat's ass about liberty - what they care about is property. Or, more specifically, THEIR property.

Case in point: libertarians whine and moan about taxes, but don't seem to have a problem when the government kills people (the death penalty). Many libertarians are actually just greedier-than-usual conservatives.

*wonders why on earth libertarians would back an authoritarian conservative?*

I think it has to do with they see bush as being that but also see Kerry as a authoritarian socialist (gun laws, welfare, etc..) It really is a choice of the lesser of two evils for the greens and the libertairians.

*wonders why on earth libertarians would back an authoritarian conservative?*
Because, as any libertarian socialist (aka anarchist) will tell you, American "libertarians" (aka libertarian capitalists) are as fake as you can get.

I think it has to do with they see bush as being that but also see Kerry as a authoritarian socialist (gun laws, welfare, etc..) It really is a choice of the lesser of two evils for the greens and the libertairians.
I just hope you realize that both Kerry and Bush are conservatives. By world standards, Kerry is center-right and Bush is far right.

I just hope you realize that both Kerry and Bush are conservatives. By world standards, Kerry is center-right and Bush is far right.

Well of course they are, but we are talking about American politics (by American standards)are we not? To Americans Kerry is seen as being liberal and Bush as being Conservative and to many Americans they both are fakers of what they claim to be lol by not being conservative or liberal enough

I am a libertarian and I cannot possibly explain why anyone in the party would ever choose to vote for GW. In my humble opinion, he is the opposite of our party's platform: Government which stays out of our lives and wallets. Though most Republicans agree with us on the latter, Bush does not. The tax cut was the only good thing this president has done, except for the fact that we now have a huge federal deficit and are going to have to pay it back. It was sort of like a cash advance on a credit card. In just the same way we'll have to pay intrest on it, too. Not the sort of fiscal conservatism we like.
Besides that, Bush has destroyed our civil rights. Libertarians are gay-friendly, choice-friendly, and drug-friendly. They are anti-government reading our emails, tapping our phone calls, and viewing our library check-outs. Bush is none of these. He wants to further the war on drugs and the war on poverty.
Libertarian ideals are virtually opposite of Bush's LIBERAL ideals, therefore I have no idea why any true Lib. would ever consider a vote in that direction.

Screw that. I'm voting for Badnarik. Despite the sensationalist rhetoric both sides are employing, neither Bush nor Kerry is going to ruin this country. Do these people actually believe that Bush is a better man for the job than Badnarik? They claim to, but nowhere on the site do they actually explain that belief. Why do I get the feeling this is just another because-he's-not-Kerry thing?

In November, I'm going to vote for the man who would make the best President, not the man who has the best chance of beating the worst candidate. Isn't that what our system of government is all about?

Screw that. I'm voting for Badnarik. Despite the sensationalist rhetoric both sides are employing, neither Bush nor Kerry is going to ruin this country. Do these people actually believe that Bush is a better man for the job than Badnarik? They claim to, but nowhere on the site do they actually explain that belief. Why do I get the feeling this is just another because-he's-not-Kerry thing.

In November, I'm going to vote for the man who would make the best President, not the man who has the best chance of beating the worst candidate. Isn't that what our system of government is all about?

I wish my fellow americans were independent-minded enough to make third (and fourth and fifth) parties viable. Until that happens, I'm duty-bound to make sure that the worst threat to American prosperity does not get "elected" again. I'll be voting against Bush and for Kerry.

Screw that. I'm voting for Badnarik. Despite the sensationalist rhetoric both sides are employing, neither Bush nor Kerry is going to ruin this country. Do these people actually believe that Bush is a better man for the job than Badnarik? They claim to, but nowhere on the site do they actually explain that belief. Why do I get the feeling this is just another because-he's-not-Kerry thing. In November, I'm going to vote for the man who would make the best President, not the man who has the best chance of beating the worst candidate. Isn't that what our system of government is all about?

Yep and you have the integrity to follow through with your beliefs. The same could be said for the dems and repubs, greens and the libertarians that choose for some other reason to side with one or the other for personal reasons. But I still admire your integrity. That is a principle that can not be abundant enough if we ever expect to change things for whatever it is you try to change.

Libertarian ideals are virtually opposite of Bush's LIBERAL ideals, therefore I have no idea why any true Lib. would ever consider a vote in that direction.

bush isn't a liberal in any sense of the word, including the one used in american political discourse. he's just a rightwing authoritarian, just like most of the rest of the republican party. and a good chunk of the democrats too.

I wouldn't vote for Bush if he held a gun to my head. I'd rather die. I'm a Libertarian and I'm voting for Badnarick. I'd rather see Kerry be president then Bush. Christ, I'd even be happy with Kerry as president. For me it's mainly about social issues who I vote for. Not terrorism. Terrorism is a red herring. The US is guilty of it too. Just not lately.

Their page about John Kerry is poorly researched. With the exception of the petition at the bottom, all of the things they say about Kerry is from George W Bush and the Tonight Show

I loathe social conservatism (i.e. legislating morality, which is contrary to Liberty) with a passion. I also loathe the idea of lesser primates holding office, so no vote for Bush.

bush isn't a liberal in any sense of the word, including the one used in american political discourse. he's just a rightwing authoritarian, just like most of the rest of the republican party. and a good chunk of the democrats too.

How is the president who has spent more than any president in the history of the US, and who has created the largest deficit in the history of the US, not a liberal?

It makes perfect sense once you learn to look past the typical libertarian smokescreen of "liberty" rhethoric. They don't give a rat's ass about liberty - what they care about is property. Or, more specifically, THEIR property.

Case in point: libertarians whine and moan about taxes, but don't seem to have a problem when the government kills people (the death penalty). Many libertarians are actually just greedier-than-usual conservatives.
Jerk - I'm a Libertarian, I don't give a rat's ass about anybody's property, and I WANT TO ABOLISH THE DEATH PENALTY!

Oh ya, here's my (extremely basic) tax philosophy - when in debt, tax progressively, but nothing riduculous. When there's a surplus, give a slightly greater refund to the economically challenged (b/c too much money = gov't propping them up and I am against that). Does that sound like whining and moaning to you?

I just hope you realize that both Kerry and Bush are conservatives. By world standards, Kerry is center-right and Bush is far right.
If your world consists of Europe, Canada, and a few countries in Asia, yes.

On some issues, like gay marraige, I can see why liberatarians hate him. But otherwise, Bush sticks to liberatarian values, like lower taxes, greater economic freedom, etc. I consider myself to be liberatarian (but not nearly as extreme as the Liberatarian party), and Bush isn't the best liberatarian, certainly not as good as Reagan was. But he's far better than Kerry, who has a plan reminding me a lot about the days when the US had a centralized government.

I just hope you realize that both Kerry and Bush are conservatives. By world standards, Kerry is center-right and Bush is far right.

Quite right.

Because, as any libertarian socialist (aka anarchist) will tell you, American "libertarians" (aka libertarian capitalists) are as fake as you can get.

Excuse me, but I would appreciate if you were less insulting to those of us who value freedom as much as any ansoc.

Case in point: libertarians whine and moan about taxes, but don't seem to have a problem when the government kills people (the death penalty). Many libertarians are actually just greedier-than-usual conservatives.

What are you talking about? I'm a libertarian, and very strongly opposed to the death penalty. Badnarik hasn't mentioned it so far (that I know of), but last election's libertarian candidate favored a moratorium on capital punishment.

How is the president who has spent more than any president in the history of the US, and who has created the largest deficit in the history of the US, not a liberal?

because liberal, even under american definitions, does not equal 'anyone who spends a lot of money'

These "libertarians for Bush" seem to care more for fiscal libertarianism than social/personal freedom. Can these people still call themselves libertarians?


I wouldn't call myself a libertarian just because I have libertarian views on personal freedom issues while I still want regulation -to a degree- of the economy.

These "libertarians for Bush" seem to care more for fiscal libertarianism than social/personal freedom. Can these people still call themselves libertarians?

I wouldn't think so. No true libertarian would abide social conservatism.

I wouldn't call myself a libertarian just because I have libertarian views on personal freedom issues while I still want regulation -to a degree- of the economy.

Well, libertarian is just a general/genetic term for someone who is a fiscal consevative and a social liberal. The Libertarian Party, however, is a bit more exact in their views. Personally, I consider myself a left-leaning libertarian. I want small government, but not to the extremes the TLP wish to take it.

Because Libertarians prefer a Conservative/Republican government with liberal civil rights and a just as liberal stance towards people.

Really, it's all about giving everyone all the dumb rights they want (as long as these rights don't give them extra benefits, such as a free suitcase full of money for all cripples. That's just dumb.) As long as they pay the (low!) taxes and don't start killing other people it seriously doesn't matter to us what they do. Shoot up drugs, worship Satan, burn the flag, set yourself on fire. As long as what you do doesn't directly endanger others (such as bein on fire and running into a gas station) it doesn't damned matter. You're your own master, all we ask for is a small contribution so we can keep a small government running.

As a Libertarian, I'm torn.

On one hand Bush stands for the anti-obscenity crusade (three big, fat excelamation marks) the 'moral majority' and not asking for schools to get private investors (you solved this simple algebra problem, go have a coke now.)

On the other hand Kerry is the typical liberal who's pushing affirmative action, even more rights for (pregnant) women (let's please kick the economy even harder,) tougher gun control laws, alternative energy sources that I don't agree with (why don't we go nuclear?) and a bunch of other fugly things.

That's why I want to see Bush win and them maybe Arnold the next term.
Really, a moderate Republican is the best thing that can happen to us Libertarians short of a Libertarian president.