NationStates Jolt Archive

I have taken some of the information here from a thread posted by a friend in a regional forum. We're a bunch a smelly pinkos, treehuggers and anarchists but I think our indignation is justified.

The Budget

NB: Dollar amounts are even millions because numbers are reported in millions; percentages may not total 100 because of rounding.

Agriculture, $16,772,000,000 - 2.04%
Commerce, $39,792,000,000 - 4.84%
Defense, $390,931,000,000 - 47.59%
District of Columbia $560,000,000 - .07%
Energy & Water, $27,998,000,000 - 3.41%
Foreign Operations, $19,386,000,000 - 2.36%
Homeland Security, $32,000,000,000 - 3.89%
Interior, 19,726,000,000 - 2.4%
Labor, Health and Human Services, Education, $142,317,000,000 - 17.33%
Legislative Branch, $3,575,000,000 - .44%
Military Construction, $10,003,000,000 - 1.22%
Transportation & Treasury, $25,439,000,000 - 3.1%
VA/HUD, $92,930,000,000 - 11.31%

Our Commentary

"If you add Defense, Foreign Ops, Homeland Security, and Military Construction the totaly military bill is 452,320,000,000 - that is, FOUR HUNDRED FIFTY TWO BILLION, 55% of the total budget. Though of course there's some foreign aid and actual security measures, like fire readiness, hidden in there. Most foreign aid comes through Ag, though."

"wow; if you hadn't tagged it as the US budget i'd think that was the budget of some ubern00k NS nation. i feel a lot better about my military budget now; i always thought it was excessive.

an aside: how much of your budget do you have to spend on one section of your NS economy for it to say 'the government is effectively ruled by the Department of Defence, with areas such as Social Equality and the Environment receiving almost no funds by comparison.' i wonder what the US's nation sheet would say."

"Fuck. Ing. Hell.

I can't really say anything else that could possibly begin to grasp that sheer mindbogglingly huge number, or the proportion of the budget it is. So,

Fuck. Ing. Hell. "

"That's astonishing. Revolting. My God."

So, extreme godmoding from the real world's only superpower or a justifiable allocation of resources? I won't hide the fact that I think it's obscene but I'm interested to see others' views.

Shocking.

I have taken some of the information here from a thread posted by a friend in a regional forum. We're a bunch a smelly pinkos, treehuggers and anarchists but I think our indignation is justified.

The Budget

NB: Dollar amounts are even millions because numbers are reported in millions; percentages may not total 100 because of rounding.

Agriculture, $16,772,000,000 - 2.04%
Commerce, $39,792,000,000 - 4.84%
Defense, $390,931,000,000 - 47.59%
District of Columbia $560,000,000 - .07%
Energy & Water, $27,998,000,000 - 3.41%
Foreign Operations, $19,386,000,000 - 2.36%
Homeland Security, $32,000,000,000 - 3.89%
Interior, 19,726,000,000 - 2.4%
Labor, Health and Human Services, Education, $142,317,000,000 - 17.33%
Legislative Branch, $3,575,000,000 - .44%
Military Construction, $10,003,000,000 - 1.22%
Transportation & Treasury, $25,439,000,000 - 3.1%
VA/HUD, $92,930,000,000 - 11.31%

Our Commentary

"If you add Defense, Foreign Ops, Homeland Security, and Military Construction the totaly military bill is 452,320,000,000 - that is, FOUR HUNDRED FIFTY TWO BILLION, 55% of the total budget. Though of course there's some foreign aid and actual security measures, like fire readiness, hidden in there. Most foreign aid comes through Ag, though."

"wow; if you hadn't tagged it as the US budget i'd think that was the budget of some ubern00k NS nation. i feel a lot better about my military budget now; i always thought it was excessive.

an aside: how much of your budget do you have to spend on one section of your NS economy for it to say 'the government is effectively ruled by the Department of Defence, with areas such as Social Equality and the Environment receiving almost no funds by comparison.' i wonder what the US's nation sheet would say."

"Fuck. Ing. Hell.

I can't really say anything else that could possibly begin to grasp that sheer mindbogglingly huge number, or the proportion of the budget it is. So,

Fuck. Ing. Hell. "

"That's astonishing. Revolting. My God."

So, obscene godmoding from the real world's only superpower or a justifiable allocation of resources? I won't hide the fact that I think it's obscene but I'm interested to see others' views.

There's a huge problem with your numbers.

There's a huge problem with your numbers.
Go on...

This is from HR 2673 Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2004 (Enrolled as Agreed to or Passed by Both House and Senate)


OFFICE OF BUDGET AND PROGRAM ANALYSIS

For necessary expenses of the Office of Budget and Program Analysis, $7,740,000.

HOMELAND SECURITY STAFF

For necessary expenses of the Homeland Security Staff, $499,000.

Office of the Chief Information Officer

For necessary expenses of the Office of the Chief Information Officer, $15,493,000.

Office of the Chief Financial Officer

For necessary expenses of the Office of the Chief Financial Officer, $5,684,000

Office of the Assistant Secretary for Civil Rights

For necessary salaries and expenses of the Office of the Assistant Secretary for Civil Rights, $808,000.

Office of Civil Rights

For necessary expenses of the Office of Civil Rights, $17,450,000.

Office of the Assistant Secretary for Administration

For necessary salaries and expenses of the Office of the Assistant Secretary for Administration, $673,000.

Agriculture Buildings and Facilities and Rental Payments
for payments to the General Services Administration, $123,910,000
for buildings operations and maintenance, $32,559,000


Hazardous Materials Management
For necessary expenses of the Department of Agriculture, to comply with the Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act (42 U.S.C. 9601 et seq.) and the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act (42 U.S.C. 6901 et seq.), $15,611,000,

Departmental Administration
For Departmental Administration, $23,031,000,

Office of the Assistant Secretary for Congressional Relations
including programs involving intergovernmental affairs and liaison within the executive branch, $3,796,000

Office of Communications

For necessary expenses to carry out services relating to the coordination of programs involving public affairs, for the dissemination of agricultural information, and the coordination of information, work, and programs authorized by Congress in the Department, $9,228,000:


Office of the Inspector General
$77,281,000
$125,000 for certain confidential operational expenses, including the payment of informants

Office of the General Counsel

For necessary expenses of the Office of the General Counsel, $34,700,000.

Office of the Under Secretary for Research, Education and Economics
$596,000.

Economic Research Service
$71,402,000.

National Agricultural Statistics Service
$128,922,000

gricultural Research Service

SALARIES AND EXPENSES
$1,088,892,000

BUILDINGS AND FACILITIES

For acquisition of land, construction, repair, improvement, extension, alteration, and purchase of fixed equipment or facilities as necessary to carry out the agricultural research programs of the Department of Agriculture, where not otherwise provided, $63,810,000

www.congress.gov
this is just part of the national budget. I'm in the process of getting the rest.

Cooperative State Research, Education, and Extension Service
RESEARCH AND EDUCATION ACTIVITIES
For payments to agricultural experiment stations, for cooperative forestry and other research, for facilities, and for other expenses, $621,447,000

NATIVE AMERICAN INSTITUTIONS ENDOWMENT FUND

For the Native American Institutions Endowment Fund authorized by Public Law 103-382 (7 U.S.C. 301 note), $9,000,000.

EXTENSION ACTIVITIES

For payments to States, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, Guam, the Virgin Islands, Micronesia, Northern Marianas, and American Samoa, $441,731,000, (seems to be cost of maintaining these territories.)

INTEGRATED ACTIVITIES
For the integrated research, education, and extension grants programs, including necessary administrative expenses, $50,493,000

OUTREACH FOR SOCIALLY DISADVANTAGED FARMERS

For grants and contracts pursuant to section 2501 of the Food, Agriculture, Conservation, and Trade Act of 1990 (7 U.S.C. 2279), $5,970,000

Office of the Under Secretary for Marketing and Regulatory Programs

For necessary salaries and expenses of the Office of the Under Secretary for Marketing and Regulatory Programs to administer programs under the laws enacted by the Congress for the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service; the Agricultural Marketing Service; and the Grain Inspection, Packers and Stockyards Administration, $725,000.

Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service

SALARIES AND EXPENSES
For expenses, not otherwise provided for, necessary to prevent, control, and eradicate pests and plant and animal diseases; to carry out inspection, quarantine, and regulatory activities; and to protect the environment, as authorized by law, $720,580,000

More to come.

ok, this thing is huge and I don't think you'd want me to copy pasted the whole thing, its at least a hundred pages.
But here is the link:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c108:9:./temp/~c108r77IlU::

Once again....someone does not understand what they are reading. The US spends about 5% of the GDP on defense. The USSR at its height was spending 20% of their GDP on defense. So where does this 47.59% number come from then? Who knows or cares, it is wrong.

The govt. spends over 759 million dollars to inspect America's food supply. Interesting.

FOOD STAMP PROGRAM

For necessary expenses to carry out the Food Stamp Act (7 U.S.C. 2011 et seq.), $26,289,692,000,

The FBI's budget:
Counterterrorism

--$577,846,000

National Security

--644,483,000

Cyber-investigations

--155,189,000

Criminal Enterprises and Federal Crimes

--1,412,309,000

Forensic and Technical Services

--494,499,000

Field Support

--224,876,000

Training and Education

--111,831,000

Criminal Justice Services

--306,554,000.

DEA Budget:
Inmate Care and Programs

--$1,462,490,000

Institution Security and Administration

--1,879,256,000

Contract Confinement

--571,077,000

Management and Administration

--155,414,000.

INS budget:
Inmate Care and Programs

--$1,462,490,000

Institution Security and Administration

--1,879,256,000

Contract Confinement

--571,077,000

Management and Administration

--155,414,000.

Thanks, EW. Looks like there was not a little confusion over the figures originally obtained.

Yay! Defense finally beat Health and Human Services!

Yay! Defense finally beat Health and Human Services!

Defense has been the largest expense for many years.

55% of our budget is going towards the military. Do you realize that if we were to cut out 10% of the military's budget, we can give everyone in this country healthcare, free education, and repair roads????

I'd much rather see that than 1/2 our money going towards the military (which it doesn't need to).

And another thing, isn't George Bush supposed to be Conservative?

I thought the defense budget was like $420 billion.

In response:

"Which figures are being contested?

I got those 2005 numbers from a friend who works for a Senator on the Appropriations Committee, but you could find 2004 numbers on the web pretty easily - maybe google 2004 Appropriations Department of Defense? Or Congressional Register 302(b) Appropriations."

and...

http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/defensedollars.html

In fairness, it was much higher in the mid-80's, though the Cold War was 'justification'.

defense is necessary, safety of citizens is paramount....i think we spend too much on the "social equality" thing groused about earlier. there is no such thing as social equality....those who produce, deserve, those who don't, don't. anything else is charity. which is a good thing, but call it what it is.

anyway, want to know what housing, hud, and department of health and human services gets in dollars combined? 619.8 BILLION!!!!! in a nation of 275 million, that's 2,253 dollars per man woman and child paid for the benefit of "social equality" a silly term if i ever heard one. or, to put it in stark terms, and when you consider less than 20% of the population, ie about 55 million people receive any of these direct benefits, which includes hud subsidies that ARE NOT direct payouts or direct costs to the system, federal assistance amounts to about 11,300 dollars per person receiving benefits per year (per 2003 budget)....AND THIS IS DIRECT FEDERAL ASSISTANCE, and does not count state programs which assume a large burden of health costs in the US......not bad, really.....is the money spent on defense itself that offends you? or it could be spent on more handouts?

I don't actually want to drag left-right economics into this. My objection to this is that this is an astonishing amount of money being spent wastefully and unnecessarily. In addition, it may be called 'Defence' but let's be honest, a lot of that spending goes towards offensive operations.

The alternative? Well, redirect it to social programmes, pay off the deficit, cut taxes or buy all Americans a pet iguana. I'm not interested in this descending into a left-right debate.

EDIT: health spending = social equality? care to explain?

defense is necessary, safety of citizens is paramount....i think we spend too much on the "social equality" thing groused about earlier. there is no such thing as social equality....those who produce, deserve, those who don't, don't. anything else is charity. which is a good thing, but call it what it is.

anyway, want to know what housing, hud, and department of health and human services gets in dollars combined? 619.8 BILLION!!!!! in a nation of 275 million, that's 2,253 dollars per man woman and child paid for the benefit of "social equality" a silly term if i ever heard one. or, to put it in stark terms, and when you consider less than 20% of the population, ie about 55 million people receive any of these direct benefits, which includes hud subsidies that ARE NOT direct payouts or direct costs to the system, federal assistance amounts to about 11,300 dollars per person receiving benefits per year (per 2003 budget)....AND THIS IS DIRECT FEDERAL ASSISTANCE, and does not count state programs which assume a large burden of health costs in the US......not bad, really.....is the money spent on defense itself that offends you? or it could be spent on more handouts?


I have a question to ask you...are you a "compassionate conservative"?

Ah... someone mentioned 5% earlier. That's 5% of GDP, we're talking about 5% of the budget. I feel that this is an important distinction.

Ah... someone mentioned 5% earlier. That's 5% of GDP, we're talking about 5% of the budget. I feel that this is an important distinction.

Maybe, but one is directly related to the other.

Hell I would prefer to see the federal government spending 75%-100% on sole National Security issues (homeland defense, military, policing and federal prisons for National security risks). Since its sole purpose (Constitutionaly) is for national security reasons only. The states should and could decide on anything outside of that realm. Obviously if that was the case we wouldn't need as much in fed taxes neither.

Hell I would prefer to see the federal government spending 75%-100% on sole National Security issues (homeland defense, military, policing and federal prisons for National security risks). Since its sole purpose (Constitutionaly) is for national security reasons only. The states should and could decide on anything outside of that realm. Obviously if that was the case we wouldn't need as much in fed taxes neither.

Excellent point and I agree with you.