NationStates Jolt Archive

Four memos from the late Col. Jerry Killian, released Wednesday by CBS' "60 Minutes," suggest that Bush received favored treatment during a time in the early 1970s when many young men were being drafted and sent to fight in Vietnam.

In one memo, dated Aug. 18, 1972, Killian wrote that he was being pressured from higher-ups in the Guard to gloss over Bush's poor performance and to "sugarcoat" his evaluation.

"I'm having trouble running interference and doing my job," he wrote.

More here : http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/2004/la-na-guard9sep09,1,7324033.story?coll=la-home-headlines

What never ceases to amaze me is the constant twisting of what seems to be the irrefutable truth. I mean if those memo's are for real then it's pretty stupid to deny their content.

Ya know one of those documents was labled 'CYA', which is net slang for goodbye

Ya know one of those documents was labled 'CYA', which is net slang for goodbye
And net slang existed in 1970 too.

you will just get "who cared what he did in the 70's?" and "this is a dead issue"

but from the same people you will hear a ton of lies about Kerrys past.

you will just get "who cared what he did in the 70's?" and "this is a dead issue"

but from the same people you will hear a ton of lies about Kerrys past.

Only shows their lack of integrity.

Ya know one of those documents was labled 'CYA', which is net slang for goodbye
Which is the only thing that CYA could stand for......
thats silly.

However, this isn't as damning as I thought it might be. In fairness, if I'm to be suspicous of the Swifties ties to campaigner for Bush (and I am), then I have to take the [forgot name] guy who got Bush in. (though, the razor would agree that he did get him in) But that's not the new news, and the Bushies already don't care (after all, it was a family friend, not the family that asked to get him in-which makes it better somehow...)

So it's memos to himself of a dead guy that contridict his official record and the guy who's still alive. I suspect that this will be dismissed out of hand, and the democrats don't have the media discipline to make this stick like the highly spurious Swifty alligations.

It's not as indisputable as I was hoping, in the end. And, has already been mentioned, Bushies only care what Kerry was doing in the 70's. If they where really being comparative they wouldn't need this for Bush to come up short.

And net slang existed in 1970 too.


But superscript didnt on typewriters back in 1972. Yet the documents contain them. Also I heard a mention on tv saying the guys son claims there was no secret file cabinet in his dad's house where these documents supposedly came from.

60 Minutes' Documents on Bush Might Be Fake
By Robert B. Bluey
CNSNews.com Staff Writer
September 09, 2004

(CNSNews.com) - The 32-year-old documents produced Wednesday by the CBS News program "60 Minutes," shedding a negative light on President Bush's service in the Texas Air National Guard, may have been forged using a current word processing program, according to typography experts.

Three independent typography experts told CNSNews.com they were suspicious of the documents from 1972 and 1973 because they were typed using a proportional font, not common at that time, and they used a superscript font feature found in today's Microsoft Word program.

The "60 Minutes" segment included an interview with former Texas lieutenant governor Ben Barnes, who criticized Bush's service. The news program also produced a series of memos that claim Bush refused to follow an order to undertake a medical examination.

The documents came from the "personal office file" of Bush's former squadron commander Jerry B. Killian, according to Kelli Edwards, a spokeswoman for "60 Minutes," who was quoted in Thursday's Washington Post. Edwards declined to tell the Post how the news program obtained the documents.

But the experts interviewed by CNSNews.com honed in on several aspects of a May 4, 1972, memo, which was part of the "60 Minutes" segment and was posted on the CBS News website Thursday.

"It was highly out of the ordinary for an organization, even the Air Force, to have proportional-spaced fonts for someone to work with," said Allan Haley, director of words and letters at Agfa Monotype in Wilmington, Mass. "I'm suspect in that I did work for the U.S. Army as late as the late 1980s and early 1990s and the Army was still using [fixed-pitch typeface] Courier."

The typography experts couldn't pinpoint the exact font used in the documents. They also couldn't definitively conclude that the documents were either forged using a current computer program or were the work of a high-end typewriter or word processor in the early 1970s.

But the use of the superscript "th" in one document - "111th F.I.S" - gave each expert pause. They said that is an automatic feature found in current versions of Microsoft Word, and it's not something that was even possible more than 30 years ago.

"That would not be possible on a typewriter or even a word processor at that time," said John Collins, vice president and chief technology officer at Bitstream Inc., the parent of MyFonts.com.

"It is a very surprising thing to see a letter with that date [May 4, 1972] on it," and featuring such typography, Collins added. "There's no question that that is surprising. Does that force you to conclude that it's a fake? No. But it certainly raises the eyebrows."

Fred Showker, who teaches typography and introduction to digital graphics at James Madison University in Harrisonburg, Va., questioned the documents' letterhead.

"Let's assume for a minute that it's authentic," Showker said. "But would they not have used some form of letterhead? Or has this letterhead been intentionally cut off? Notice how close to the top of the page it is."

He also pointed to the signature of Killian, the purported author of the May 4, 1972, memo ordering Bush, who was at the time a first lieutenant in the Texas Air National Guard, to obtain a physical exam.

"Do you think he would have stopped that 'K' nice and cleanly, right there before it ran into the typewriter 'Jerry," Showker asked. "You can't stop a ballpoint pen with a nice square ending like that ... The end of that 'K' should be round ... it looks like you took a pair of snips and cut it off so you could see the 'Jerry.'"

The experts also raised questions about the military's typewriter technology three decades ago. Collins said word processors that could produce proportional-sized fonts cost upwards of $20,000 at the time.

"I'm not real sure that you would have that kind of sophistication in the office of a flight inspector in the United States government," Showker said.

"The only thing it could be, possibly, is an IBM golf ball typewriter, which came out around the early to middle 1970s," Haley said. "Those did have proportional fonts on them. But they weren't widely used."

But Haley added that the use of the superscript "th" cast doubt on the use of any typewriter.

"There weren't any typewriters that did that," Haley said. "That looks like it might be a function of something like Microsoft Word, which does that automatically."

According to an article on the CBS News website, the news program "consulted a handwriting analyst and document expert who believes the material is authentic."

All right, here's my official stance on the "Bush-Kerry Vietnam" issue. Kerry went. Bush didn't. Kerry won three Purple Hearts. Bush didn't. Kerry risked his life. Bush didn't. There, are you happy? Now, let's get his issue over with.
I do have one question, however. I watched the "60 Minutes" interview last night, and when they started talking about the "memorandums that had never been released... until now" from a dead man, I started wondering. Where are they getting this information? I have heard rumors that there was a secret file cabinet in his house (i.e. stuff he never meant for anyone to see), and that it was broken into. I'm sure this is stretching the truth, but I would like to know. I don't think secret/personal files should be cracked open, even for something as big as the election. It reminds me of the issue about Dr. Atkins coronary problems, in which an extremist group of some kind stole the records with false IDs. Of course, they never said that on the news...

more proof that the documents on 60 minutes are fakes.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/007760.php

If these documents are proven to be forged, Dan (I'm lying) Rather (poorly) should retire. He used to be my favorite anchor, but he has gone senile.

Responding to: Coors light

Really? I wouldn't ever believe that they would have fake documents on a prestigious show like "60 Minutes"! Oh, wait...

A screenshot of the “original” document as found at CBS:

http://homepage.mac.com/cfj/.Pictures/aug-18-1973-memo.gif

A screenshot of the guy's Microsoft Word document:

http://homepage.mac.com/cfj/.Pictures/aug181973memo-word.gif


Any one notice the similarities???

A screenshot of the “original” document as found at CBS:

http://homepage.mac.com/cfj/.Pictures/aug-18-1973-memo.gif

A screenshot of the guy's Microsoft Word document:

http://homepage.mac.com/cfj/.Pictures/aug181973memo-word.gif


Any one notice the similarities???
Now if you'd only apply this kind of scrutiny to the Swifties.....

the truth is comes out and the liberals become silent....

People are talking about changing the constitution to allow naturalized citizens run for President, why not also change that whole 2 term limit on the White House? W will be able to stay in for a long time if this is the best the Bush haters can do.

the truth is comes out and the liberals become silent....

They're too busy bashing the SBVT for the 5000th time to pay attention to what a few days ago was going to get Bush in "big trouble".

A screenshot of the “original” document as found at CBS:

http://homepage.mac.com/cfj/.Pictures/aug-18-1973-memo.gif

A screenshot of the guy's Microsoft Word document:

http://homepage.mac.com/cfj/.Pictures/aug181973memo-word.gif


Any one notice the similarities???

Looks like someone printed the Word, Xerox'd it about 15 times, then sent in into CBS anonymously. Also, I'd like to know who were the "handwriting analysts and typography experts" that examined the memos.

Now if you'd only apply this kind of scrutiny to the Swifties.....

I dont like what the swiftboard vets against Kerry or whatever are doing. I do find it intresting though that the author is hoping the Kerry camp takes him to court though....

I dont like what the swiftboard vets against Kerry or whatever are doing. I do find it intresting though that the author is hoping the Kerry camp takes him to court though....
The same way that Moore places the same kind of challenge (and I suspect for the same reason...)