NationStates Jolt Archive

Who's the best in making beer? I'm not talking about yellow water, I'm talking quality, flavour, tradition.

I have never had better beer than that produced in Estonia. To be more exact, in one of the villages in southern Estonia lives an old man who brews his own beer, and that's something...
Then again - I might just be favourably inclined towards home-brew...
But commercially-produced Estonian beers are also better than most European brands, A. Le Coq Premium and Albert rule supreme, for example.

I have never had better beer than that produced in Estonia. To be more exact, in one of the villages in southern Estonia lives an old man who brews his own beer, and that's something...
Then again - I might just be favourably inclined towards home-brew...
But commercially-produced Estonian beers are also better than most European brands, A. Le Coq Premium and Albert rule supreme, for example.

That may be so true, but it's not that easy to proclaim estonian beer as the best, because it isn't taht easy to find outside Estonia, is it?

I live in a borderland area, and have sampled the finest beers in Belgium, Holland and Germany. On my trips abroad I've also sampled several Danish and British beer, but I have to say that the Belgians brew the best beer overall. There are so many quality Belgian beers. My favourite brew is a local Dutch brew, but there are about 14 quality Belgian beers I've sampled so far, there are just so many breweries in Belgium and most produce class beers.

Belgium, no question

is this supposed to be a contest? Belgium is way ahead of holland who are way ahead of the rest

That may be so true, but it's not that easy to proclaim estonian beer as the best, because it isn't taht easy to find outside Estonia, is it?

Oh well, just call me a patriot then.. ;)

The monks of Belgium make the best... this was supposed to be a contest ;-)

Can't see how you can say with the number of micro brewers about. Main stream beers don't really count as the volumes and sales pitches tend to make the production of good beer difficult. Like UK largers, nearly all crap. As no one wants to step too far from the norm, hence they all taste very similar and are bland compared to Belgium largers. Could it be that people in Belgium are less influnced by advertising and actually buy what they like rather than what is trendy?
Me I like dark, strong beers, which in the UK makes it difficult in some places to get a decent drink. Alcho pops and random largers for the brainless masses are killing off any hopes we had of keeping a quality brewing industry.

Can't see how you can say with the number of micro brewers about. Main stream beers don't really count as the volumes and sales pitches tend to make the production of good beer difficult. Like UK largers, nearly all crap. As no one wants to step too far from the norm, hence they all taste very similar and are bland compared to Belgium largers. Could it be that people in Belgium are less influnced by advertising and actually buy what they like rather than what is trendy?
Me I like dark, strong beers, which in the UK makes it difficult in some places to get a decent drink. Alcho pops and random largers for the brainless masses are killing off any hopes we had of keeping a quality brewing industry.

Move to Belgium or Germany, nearly every half-decent-sized city and town has it's own brewery.

Move to Belgium or Germany, nearly every half-decent-sized city and town has it's own brewery.

True, but there are exceptions. Even hamlets sometimes have beers named after them.

The odd exception is there to confirm the general rule. 'tis an old Dutch saying. :)

Dear Sir,

I understand your difficulties in acheiving quality beer-drinking in the UK.

Therefore, I have come to your aid with a special product we like to call, MR BEER.

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/mrbeer/beerbarbrew.html


Seriously, has anyone ever tried one? I'd be suspect because the barrel it ferments in is made of plastic.

I'm also going to bet it's not that hard to make your own beer in a wooden cask.

Dear Sir,

I understand your difficulties in acheiving quality beer-drinking in the UK.

Therefore, I have come to your aid with a special product we like to call, MR BEER.

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/mrbeer/beerbarbrew.html


Seriously, has anyone ever tried one? I'd be suspect because the barrel it ferments in is made of plastic.

I'm also going to bet it's not that hard to make your own beer in a wooden cask.

I haven't tried it but the bottles look butt-ugly, I can tell you that.

I'm also going to bet it's not that hard to make your own beer in a wooden cask.

It's not, but the first few attempts taste crap, and it takes several more attempts to get the technique down and all. Plus I can never seem to get the different brews to taste the same. If I make a brew today and make another one next week, they both taste differently. :(

Dear Sir,

I understand your difficulties in acheiving quality beer-drinking in the UK.

Therefore, I have come to your aid with a special product we like to call, MR BEER.

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/mrbeer/beerbarbrew.html


Seriously, has anyone ever tried one? I'd be suspect because the barrel it ferments in is made of plastic.

I'm also going to bet it's not that hard to make your own beer in a wooden cask.
this can only be utter crap. Me and my dad have brewerd some of our own beers. The first was an instant can which you only had to put in a barrel of hot water. That was CRAP... YUK
After that we did everything. We ground the grains, heated it in different stages, added hop and yeast, put it in a barrel, added some sugar and put it in bottles. Some of those were really good (though never clear liquids I must add, does anyone know how to do that?) and some were bad. It's just following instructions and luck in the beginning.

Close call between belgium and germany. check republic definitely deserves a category of their own.

A few people actually voted for the US.

Dear Sir,

I understand your difficulties in acheiving quality beer-drinking in the UK.

Therefore, I have come to your aid with a special product we like to call, MR BEER.

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/mrbeer/beerbarbrew.html


Seriously, has anyone ever tried one? I'd be suspect because the barrel it ferments in is made of plastic.

I'm also going to bet it's not that hard to make your own beer in a wooden cask.

I've fermented my own beer once, wine too actually. It isn't hard to make beer, it is very hard to make good beer. Mine sucked, but it had certainly beaten Budweiser :p

A few people actually voted for the US.

I feel the need to quote Monty Python:

American Beers are like having sex in a canoe.

Fucking near water.

Go Monty!!! :D

is this supposed to be a contest? Belgium is way ahead of holland who are way ahead of the rest


Let us Belgians have our 5 minutes of fame. All we have is the best beer, the best chocolate, the most penetrating guns (7 kevlars and a brick wall :p), the best fries, frites, chips or wathever you want to call it (invented in Belgium, why do americans call it French fries? they wouldn't recognise good fries if you burried them in ... them), rather good cheese too, the most pigs per civilian (I even think more pigs then civilians, politicians included), brussels sprouts (I apologise on behalf of my people for this one) and Witloooof (how the **** do you call it in English, white leaf?). Oh yes and our bougondic way of life is the finest too of course :D.

Would this be the appropriate moment to piss on your bonfire and come up with this website which claims Belgium doesn't exist? :D

Would this be the appropriate moment to piss on your bonfire and come up with this website which claims Belgium doesn't exist? :D

founded by a dutchman of course?

Sorry, the FN P90 penetrates 48 layers of kevlar :p (I apologise for this weapon too on behalf of all peacefull belgians)

Who voted the US? Come on!
AT the very least, put Australia instead.

founded by a dutchman of course?


http://zapatopi.net/belgium.html

We're beyond this petty rivalry, I like Belgian people, very warm and friendly people. I think the guy started the site as a joke anyway :)

http://zapatopi.net/belgium.html



this one's hilarious. :D :D

Sorry, the FN P90 penetrates 48 layers of kevlar :p (I apologise for this weapon too on behalf of all peacefull belgians)
and the brick wall too?
Only thing fucked up about belgium is that they speak a form/accent of dutch, french AND german in one country

and the brick wall too?
Only thing fucked up about belgium is that they speak a form/accent of dutch, french AND german in one country

how about Switzerland: all sorts of German, French and Italian dialects

how about Switzerland: all sorts of German, French and Italian dialects
I don't care, they don't make good beers :D

I voted for the US ... and here is why:

1] Immigrants came here from Belgium, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
2] Immigrants came here from Britain, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
3] Immigrants came here from Denmark, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
4] Immigrants came here from Germany, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
5] Immigrants came here from Holland, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
6] Immigrants came here from Ireland, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.

Hence, anything you got anywhere in the world is made right here in the USA using the same tried and true methods used all over the world.

USA == All of the above.

So there.

Super Bock, Portugal :D

I voted for the US ... and here is why:

1] Immigrants came here from Belgium, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
2] Immigrants came here from Britain, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
3] Immigrants came here from Denmark, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
4] Immigrants came here from Germany, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
5] Immigrants came here from Holland, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
6] Immigrants came here from Ireland, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.

Hence, anything you got anywhere in the world is made right here in the USA using the same tried and true methods used all over the world.

USA == All of the above.

So there.
So how come US beer sucks? And Belgian/British/Denmark/German/Dutch/Irish does NOT suck (that much :p)?

I voted for the US ... and here is why:

1] Immigrants came here from Belgium, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
2] Immigrants came here from Britain, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
3] Immigrants came here from Denmark, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
4] Immigrants came here from Germany, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
5] Immigrants came here from Holland, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
6] Immigrants came here from Ireland, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.

Hence, anything you got anywhere in the world is made right here in the USA using the same tried and true methods used all over the world.

USA == All of the above.

So there.

So how did you manage to screw up all that skill, and started producing 'budweiser'.
oh well, you screwed up the indians ...

I voted for the US ... and here is why:
Hence, anything you got anywhere in the world is made right here in the USA using the same tried and true methods used all over the world.


I agree that in loads of places all around the remains of US bombs and so can be found.

Since the best beer in the world is Guinness, and Ireland wasn't on your poll, I voted other.

ireland was on the poll :rolleyes:

Heineken, Grolsch, Amstel, Bavaria, Oranjeboom, Export 33, Dommelsch ... yummie.. and all of them Dutch beers (and some malt beers like Buckler are also Dutch)
offcourse I voted for Holland.. we rock :D

i tasted every beeer from every nation mentioned in the poll
belgian is the best and the USA-beer sucks big-time

1. belgian
2. dutch
3. german
4. irish
5. britain
6. denmark
7. tjechie
8. slovenia
9. the rest of the world
10. USA

So how did you manage to screw up all that skill, and started producing 'budweiser'.

Ummm ... name one country that does not produce at least 1 bad beer and I will prove you wrong. Budweiser is not the end-all be-all of American beers, nor is it the only American beer.

oh well, you screwed up the indians ...

I am an "Indian", you know.

so you should know they screwed up the indians
i'm guessing that the only beer you have ever tasted was american beer
or you like bad beer
but that would be weard

PS. mexican beer doesn't taste like beer, but it tastes ok :P

Isn't Budweiser a Czech beer?

i'm guessing that the only beer you have ever tasted was american beer

Newp ... we have every beer from every country in the world available here in the US. I'm partial to Guinness and Polaner Dopplebock, myself. Best American beer is Shiner Bock ... try it sometime. It'll change your opinion of American Beers.

PS. mexican beer doesn't taste like beer, but it tastes ok :P

Actually, Negro Modelo is an incredible beer.

Isn't Budweiser a Czech beer?

No, it's a Czech style Pilsner made in the US. It's not a particularly good Pilsner.

Newp ... we have every beer from every country in the world available here in the US. I'm partial to Guinness and Polaner Dopplebock, myself. Best American beer is Shiner Bock ... try it sometime. It'll change your opinion of American Beers.



Actually, Negro Modelo is an incredible beer.

i actually already drunk shiner bock
i guess this question i the same like do you like brocolli
some people do some don't
so it's actually stupid to argue about it :P
i aid mexican beer is ok
but it doesn't taste like beer
they added a flavor i think

Isn't Budweiser a Czech beer?
They were the first people to use the name, but it's a completely different beer (and far superior IMHO) - it's labelled "Budvar" or something here in the UK.

No, it's a Czech style Pilsner made in the US. It's not a particularly good Pilsner.
Ah. I had a few of them once. Chucked them away like water. And thats what it tasted like. Water with a little sugar in it or something.

I voted for the US ... and here is why:

1] Immigrants came here from Belgium, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
2] Immigrants came here from Britain, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
3] Immigrants came here from Denmark, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
4] Immigrants came here from Germany, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
5] Immigrants came here from Holland, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
6] Immigrants came here from Ireland, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.

Hence, anything you got anywhere in the world is made right here in the USA using the same tried and true methods used all over the world.

USA == All of the above.

So there.

Untrue, I read an article of Michael Jackson, the beer hunter. One of the most famous and respected beer tasters and connaiseurs. In New York and such they have breweries selling beer as "Belgian brewed beer" sort of copies like we in Belgium copy Christmas and Scotch from Scottish beers (but those beers were brought to Scotland by Flemish people in Medieval times, recently read that 30% of the noblemen in Scotland is of Flemish origin). Now to come back at those fake belgian beers.

Among the two hundred tasters, many felt that the best Belgian imports had considerably more depth of character, complexity and individuality, while the American versions tended to be more formulaic, and heavy on the spices. Broadly true, but the Belgian beers have evolved over decades, and sometimes centuries. The Americans were seeking authenticity of style and, for myself, I enjoyed their robustness.

You can find the article here: http://www.beerhunter.com/documents/19133-001444.html

I've also heard that Americans want, when for instance tasting wine, a very recognisable taste, so if the bottle says, oaky wine, you get, when for instance in NY, a wine that tastes like you're eating oak bark... In short the tastes are not refined but smack you in the face. No dept, no tradition, no culture.

I've also heard that Americans want, when for instance tasting wine, a very recognisable taste, so if the bottle says, oaky wine, you get, when for instance in NY, a wine that tastes like you're eating oak bark... In short the tastes are not refined but smack you in the face. No dept, no tradition, no culture.

Interesting ... you speak as though I've never travelled outside the US ... where do you get your information on me and my experiences?

I copied this from a site, its about the Scotch Ales we brew in Belgium. Are we copying?

The Belgian tradition of brewing Scotch Ales.

A special and long lasting link exists between Flanders, the Northern State of Belgium, and Scotland, the Northern "almost"-state of the UK. To understand this link, we have to go back for almost thousand years. William the Conqueror, the Norman who successfully invaded England in 1066 to win the English Throne, was married to Mathilda, the daughter of the Count of Flanders. Half of his invading army consisted of Flemings. A lot of them ended up in high positions in and around the English Court. Years later, when they had become too successful and too powerful, the Flemings were chased from the Court out of London towards Wales and Scotland.

One of the results is that 30 % of the Scottish nobility is of Flemish origin. There is even a clan with the name "Fleming", and in earlier times these clansmen were weavers, no surprise since Flanders was then world-famous for its woven textiles. Many castles in Scotland are build by Flemings. The boarded floor was introduced by them. This special link between the two nations is commemorated in a special exhibition on display this month in Edinburgh, Scotland. Last summer the exhibition was on display in Brugge, Flanders.

The Flemings, with their long tradition and know-how of brewing hearty ales, merged this art with the local traditions and the local ingredients. The result is a powerful beverage, of at least 7 % alcohol by volume, commonly called a "Scotch Ale". This style of beer offers a rich and malty feeling in the mouth, with a lot of sophistication in taste and aroma. Plenty of dark roasted malts are used to create a syrupy sweetness, that contrasts with the hops. Special yeasts are given free play in this rich environment during the fermentation process. This results in a complex taste with a typical light licorice undertone. The balance between the sweetness of the rich malt, the complex tastes of the yeasts and the bitterness of the hops, is what makes the Scotch ale so attractive but also a "wolf disguised as a lamb". The differences between a Belgian Triple, like our BORNEM TRIPLE or PIRAAT, and a true Scotch Ale, like our SILLY SCOTCH, lays in the type of roasted malts and the typical yeasts used to referment the wort.

The trade between Scotland and Flanders continued for centuries, and beer, brewed in Flanders was one of the products shipped to Scotland. At the beginning of the French revolution at the end of the 18th century, when France invaded its Northern neighbors, a short lived counter guerilla war emerged in Flanders. France invented the general conscription of all young men in its army, and that was too much. If you had to go fight in somebody's else army, you could as well defend your own country and culture. These young fighters received English & Scottish arms which were smuggled into Flanders. In return, as a payment, whole ship loads of beer were smuggled over the Northsea.


You can find the article again here: http://www.globalbeer.com/web/body_pages/pages-beer/ScotchSilly/ScotchSilly.html

Interesting ... you speak as though I've never travelled outside the US ... where do you get your information on me and my experiences?

ehr, Did I speak of your experiences? I was speaking of experiences that some Belgian people had when in NY.

US made microbrew is the best. No doubt.

No, it's a Czech style Pilsner made in the US. It's not a particularly good Pilsner.
I ve heard that there is actually a dispute between the US and a Czech company about the use of the name Budweiser though.

I ve heard that there is actually a dispute between the US and a Czech company about the use of the name Budweiser though.

And we all know who will win this dispute :p

Who voted the US? Come on!
AT the very least, put Australia instead.

Thaibeth you forgot AUSTRALIA! They're fierce beer drinkers. Never drank ausie beer, but a country that loves beer so much, must at least have several very good beers. Probably pilsner, but hey, one can't have it all.

I drank "Fosters" once, but that isn't ausie beer is it? I believe it is even owned by the Maes-Kronenbourg group here in Belgium/Northern-France.

I do like the commercials of Fosters :D they're hilarious.

Thaibeth you forgot AUSTRALIA! They're fierce beer drinkers. Never drank ausie beer, but a country that loves beer so much, must at least have several very good beers. Probably pilsner, but hey, one can't have it all.

I drank "Fosters" once, but that isn't ausie beer is it? I believe it is even owned by the Maes-Kronenbourg group here in Belgium/Northern-France.

I do like the commercials of Fosters :D they're hilarious.

Fosters=Yuckkkkkk!

My favourite beer from here is Crown Lager, but thats a cliche really considering that it's the expensive beer everyone likes. It is very good though.

and the brick wall too?
Only thing fucked up about belgium is that they speak a form/accent of dutch, french AND german in one country

And in holland you've got people who speak a dialect of Dutch, german, English, danish and probably chinese too all in one. How do you call 'em? Friesen ? :D:D Nu kgeloof ook in kabouterkes :p

No not 48 layers of kevlar and a brick wall. Just 48 layers of Kevlar. I think it about penetrates a tank. Haha, a shipload of these in the wrong (say getto gansta "fuck the police" type) hands and we're truely fucked. Haha, a cop with 49 kevlar vests :D. Only one would fit in a SWAT vehicle. :D The movie SWAT with only one charactre an unbelievable unhandy Samuel L Jackson that looks like Oprah before she had her lipo.

canada, and i can't believe anyone in their right mind would nominate or vote for the states...

what do having sex in a canoe and drinking american beer have in common?




it's as close to water as you're going to get.

Ummm ... name one country that does not produce at least 1 bad beer and I will prove you wrong. Budweiser is not the end-all be-all of American beers, nor is it the only American beer.

Thats true, we've got Romy Pils. It tastes like German beer but with a bad smell. But Roman Brewery makes all good with their fine Ename Abbey Beer: blond (enkel), bruin (dubbel) en tripel AND of course Sloeber :D ooh mamma.




I am an "Indian", you know. An indian like in "thank you come again" Indian or Native American? If so, you must really hate America (not Americans) (isn't meant as an insult, around here its probably a compliment :D:p) or are you thankfull they left the natives some reserves?

http://zapatopi.net/belgium.html




this one's hilarious.

Not as funny as the stuff about the Smurf's being communists...

and the brick wall too?
Only thing fucked up about belgium is that they speak a form/accent of dutch, french AND german in one country
Luxemburg has got a funny language as well: aside French they are speaking Luxemburgian: a mixture of French and German and whatever else.

Ummm ... name one country that does not produce at least 1 bad beer and I will prove you wrong. Budweiser is not the end-all be-all of American beers, nor is it the only American beer.


I didn't say that there is actually a magic happy land that doesn't have a single foul tasting beer. But it is a pitty that the only American beer known outside the US is the dreaded Bud. That really cast a gloom over the american reputation in QUALITY beer-producing

I am an "Indian", you know.

Good for you. I really mean that. Although we're straying off-topic, your ancestors in the not-so-far past were NOT responsible for all the killings and limitation of Native-American territory. you should cherish your ancestral history and heritage with great pride.

I copied this from a site, its about the Scotch Ales we brew in Belgium. Are we copying?



So what they're saying is that Beer is a Flemish tradition, and the skill travelled to Scotland, and now we're brewing Scottish ale?

I read: Flanders was first.

My wife's uncles home brew. A few months ago they had made a horrible tasting batch. Not wanting to waste 9 US gallons of beer, they, ahem, distilled it. Best, smoothest liquor I've ever had.

I voted for the US ... and here is why:

1] Immigrants came here from Belgium, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
2] Immigrants came here from Britain, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
3] Immigrants came here from Denmark, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
4] Immigrants came here from Germany, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
5] Immigrants came here from Holland, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.
6] Immigrants came here from Ireland, became Americans, and brought their beer making skills.

Hence, anything you got anywhere in the world is made right here in the USA using the same tried and true methods used all over the world.

USA == All of the above.

So there.

It's a miracle, most American beers I've sampled were shit, despite all the inherited knowledge.

It's a miracle, most American beers I've sampled were shit, despite all the inherited knowledge.

There are a lot of US micro-brews that are really good - but people outside the area where they are brewed never hear of them. But don't get me wrong, you bet your ass I voted for Belgium.

I have never had better beer than that produced in Estonia. To be more exact, in one of the villages in southern Estonia lives an old man who brews his own beer, and that's something...
Then again - I might just be favourably inclined towards home-brew...
But commercially-produced Estonian beers are also better than most European brands, A. Le Coq Premium and Albert rule supreme, for example.

What type of beer was it? (Name? I'd love to try it.) (Keep in mind that I play NationStates using an Estonian flag!) :)

I'm not expert, but overall, in terms of quality and selection I voted Belgium. My favourite Belgian import in the US: Delirium Tremens, which I can pick up at Beverages and More. :9 (Though only a sick person would name a beer after a serious alcohol withdrawal! Perhaps another reason why I love it so much.)

I tend to drink Lagers, mostly Maibocks and Doppelbocks, and Hefeweizens (which I think are considered an Ale, right?).

So what they're saying is that Beer is a Flemish tradition, and the skill travelled to Scotland, and now we're brewing Scottish ale?

I read: Flanders was first.

Beer brewing was a Germanic skill, as in: all Germanic people, which includes Dutchies and Germans...

Let us Belgians have our 5 minutes of fame. All we have is the best beer, the best chocolate, the most penetrating guns (7 kevlars and a brick wall :p), the best fries, frites, chips or wathever you want to call it (invented in Belgium, why do americans call it French fries? they wouldn't recognise good fries if you burried them in ... them), rather good cheese too, the most pigs per civilian (I even think more pigs then civilians, politicians included), brussels sprouts (I apologise on behalf of my people for this one) and Witloooof (how the **** do you call it in English, white leaf?). Oh yes and our bougondic way of life is the finest too of course :D.

They call them french-fries as a corruption... they were originally "Frenched Fries", because, for some reason, cutting them that way is 'frenching'...

And Belgiums greatest acheivement... NOT being french.

Let us Belgians have our 5 minutes of fame. All we have is the best beer, the best chocolate, the most penetrating guns (7 kevlars and a brick wall :p), the best fries, frites, ...


I'll give you more than 5 minutes.

One to add to your list:

Belgium has for years defined and dominated industrial music, even if by sheer number of artists Germany produces more new (and good) music than the rest of the world (probably a boast, but it sure seems true), traditionally Belgians are at the forefront when it comes to keeping the art form moving and interesting.


But of course you are dead wrong on frites. :p Everybody knows that despite whatever culture first started frying potatoes, that when it comes to junk food the United States is and will remain the global leader. Trust me, I've had your version, the Dutch version, the French version, the Luxembourger version, the Japanese version, and plenty of different American versions of fries.

Also of note: US English is by far the BEST swearing language in the world. I get a kick out of how many Europeans will be talking in their native language to throw in a "Shit" or "Fuck" in the middle of their sentence and continue on.


The fields of:
- Junk Food
- Advertising
- Swearing
- Gang Violence

Should be no question which country would win "Gold", "Silver", and "Bronze".

The USA probably makes one of the worse beers ever. I live in Canada and we make a damn fine beer.. but the best? I'd have to go with Germany. It's like fine music.

One to add to your list:

Belgium has for years defined and dominated industrial music, even if by sheer number of artists Germany produces more new (and good) music than the rest of the world (probably a boast, but it sure seems true), traditionally Belgians are at the forefront when it comes to keeping the art form moving and interesting.".
I disagree with your statement about new german music. Even if your statement is true: Quantity doesn´t say anthing about quality. And I don´t see it outside of a few execptions here.

But of course you are dead wrong on frites. :p Everybody knows that despite whatever culture first started frying potatoes, that when it comes to junk food the United States is and will remain the global leader. Trust me, I've had your version, the Dutch version, the French version, the Luxembourger version, the Japanese version, and plenty of different American versions of fries..".
But Belgium invented them. But America is today leading on it. Like always. Stealing things from Europe: greatest American archievenemt, hehe.

Also of note: US English is by far the BEST swearing language in the world. I get a kick out of how many Europeans will be talking in their native language to throw in a "Shit" or "Fuck" in the middle of their sentence and continue on.
So, you say that English is the most rude language. Scheiße, fick dich.
Well: I wouldn´t say that. But English is today the leading language in the world. It is not just fuck and shit which are used but also cool, computer, meeting, outsorcing, monitoring e.g. Well: English is in the lead. In the 17-19 th century the French language dominated continental Europe and was the lingua franca (since France was also the dominant power at that time on the continent). It influenced many languages and their vocabulary. Today English is that position. Thanks to the fact that the US is the leading and dominating power of the world.

The fields of:
- Junk Food
- Advertising
- Swearing
- Gang Violence
Should be no question which country would win "Gold", "Silver", and "Bronze".
Why do you leave out positive things like freedom, idealisam, - well and naivity?
Anyway: you need to be careful regarding the medals. China is catching up. Dangerous.

I disagree with your statement about new german music. Even if your statement is true: Quantity doesn´t say anthing about quality. And I don´t see it outside of a few execptions here.

So, you say that English is the most rude language. Scheiße, fick dich.
Well: I wouldn´t say that. But English is today the leading language in the world.

Why do you leave out positive things like freedom, idealisam, - well and naivity?

Oh, there is some great new industrial music coming out of Germany ... but the German industrial bands seem to verbally acknowledge Belgian artists from the 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s as their inspirations.

It should be pointed out that something like the industrial music scene actually transcends most cultural borders, and that a classic Belgian act like Front 242 was able to define something like EBM not just because of the ability of a group of artists, but because there was a willingness on the part of European alike to listen to the music (though I kinda wonder if 242 is perhaps more popular in the US than in Germany ... not really sure there, but I do find it odd that I hear more old and new 242 in North America than in Europe -- but who knows, as my sample of what the European scene is like is limited to a 2 week trip every summer and is being compared against the North American West Coast scene, which is probably night and day different than what is being spun in places like Washington D.C. and New York City).

The current crop of artists I tend to like are carried on Germany's Hands Productions, Ant-Zen, Hymen, and Black Rain. And the Dutch label NoiTekk.

All that said, my current fav is still Mika Goedrijk of This Morn Omina (living in Belgium).


As for German swear words, while I like 'em ... when stressed I still swear in English. But what is telling is that stressed Germans weren't crusing in Deutsch, but inserting English words into their language.

To take this back to the subject of beer, when I'm ordering a drink in the US, I tend to ask for, "Ein [insert type of 'bier'] bitte." :) I've had to reask many times, because I do this out of habbit and without thinking about it. And I'm not a native German speaker! It just happens that somewhere in my mind, that I associate beer with Europe, and somehow it comes out as such.


I left out the political ideas, because they are talked to death in other NS General threads. A "sin" thread is much more interesting anyways.

Canadian beer is the best! Go Canada!

I'll give you more than 5 minutes.

But of course you are dead wrong on frites. :p Everybody knows that despite whatever culture first started frying potatoes, that when it comes to junk food the United States is and will remain the global leader. Trust me, I've had your version, the Dutch version, the French version, the Luxembourger version, the Japanese version, and plenty of different American versions of fries.



Please. PLEASE. Stop yacking about American Fries. Belgium (or the people living in this country before 1830) invented fries. There is nothing that can change that, not even the global marketing succes of the Mac.

And another thing: don't be so proud about that "junk food global leader". It has killed lots of people.

My wife's uncles home brew. A few months ago they had made a horrible tasting batch. Not wanting to waste 9 US gallons of beer, they, ahem, distilled it. Best, smoothest liquor I've ever had.

Haha sweeet... We had a illegal destilling farmer living across the (small) field. You could always smell the potatoe skins being boiled to be fermented and eventually destiled in some sort of sightnumbing XXX wodka or something...the man is dead now. :p

I'll give you more than 5 minutes.

One to add to your list:

Belgium has for years defined and dominated industrial music, even if by sheer number of artists Germany produces more new (and good) music than the rest of the world (probably a boast, but it sure seems true), traditionally Belgians are at the forefront when it comes to keeping the art form moving and interesting.


But of course you are dead wrong on frites. :p Everybody knows that despite whatever culture first started frying potatoes, that when it comes to junk food the United States is and will remain the global leader. Trust me, I've had your version, the Dutch version, the French version, the Luxembourger version, the Japanese version, and plenty of different American versions of fries.

Also of note: US English is by far the BEST swearing language in the world. I get a kick out of how many Europeans will be talking in their native language to throw in a "Shit" or "Fuck" in the middle of their sentence and continue on.


The fields of:
- Junk Food
- Advertising
- Swearing
- Gang Violence

Should be no question which country would win "Gold", "Silver", and "Bronze".

But I was talking about our frites culture. Every town, city, even the smallest village has at least one and usually a lot more "frietkoten" (translation: frie chacks or frites huts) little containerlike buildings in which they sell frenced fries. They long since exist, before Mac Donalds was founded :D. Sort of tradition. My town has about hmm say more than 10 "frietkoten" and we're pretty small. Every parish has at least one.

Swearing, yes I do say shit, fuck and damn a lot, but also "miljaaar", "merde", "godver", "kut", "godverdomme", "dju", hmm thats about it in the ones I use frequently. :p what a subject :D

What do you mean with "industrial" music? Front242 and the Lords of Acid? I always thought the Germans were quite good in such. Like Wumpscut and Project Pitchfork. Oh we had Insect too, but I don't know them that well, they existed before I started listening to music. Oh and Suicide Commando, they international too, but on an underground level like most of the industrial scene I guess. Or did you mean our music industrie is good? All we produce is those stupid shallow music with blondes that can't sing and we put a beat on it (talking bout the commercial music of course). Man that's embarrasing. Give me some live techno but not that shit, bit of Praga Khan or something.

But I was talking about our frites culture. Every town, city, even the smallest village has at least one and usually a lot more "frietkoten" (translation: frie chacks or frites huts) little containerlike buildings in which they sell frenced fries. They long since exist, before Mac Donalds was founded :D. Sort of tradition. My town has about hmm say more than 10 "frietkoten" and we're pretty small. Every parish has at least one.

Well, in Germany you will see men and women wearing grills around their waist selling brats ... so I don't think the idea of being able to walk to a centrum and find cheap but filling food is a Belgian tradition alone. I think everybody does it. It just happens that in most US villages, you can supersize your junk food. ;)


What do you mean with "industrial" music? Front242 and the Lords of Acid? I always thought the Germans were quite good in such. Like Wumpscut and Project Pitchfork. Oh we had Insect too, but I don't know them that well, they existed before I started listening to music. Oh and Suicide Commando, they international too, but on an underground level like most of the industrial scene I guess. Or did you mean our music industrie is good? All we produce is those stupid shallow music with blondes that can't sing and we put a beat on it (talking bout the commercial music of course). Man that's embarrasing. Give me some live techno but not that shit, bit of Praga Khan or something.

242, Lords of Acid, Wumpscut, Pitchfork, exactly! (But 242 are Belgian and not German ... I'm not sure about where the Lords of Acid are from. Rudy of Wumpscut was inspired by Leatherstrip's Clause Larsen -- of Denmark, and was carried by the now history Belgian label Zoth Ommog.)

And yes, Johan (Suicide Commando) is not just international, but his work (while still pretty new in and of itself) is what the next wave of European and North American acts are citing as part of their inspiration. Insekt is very good too! :) And anybody talking about old Belgian industrial would be remiss to not mention the Klinik.

While industrial music is still an independent / underground scene, much of that has to do with some of the characteristics that define it. It *is* anti-establishment ... so aside from Front 242 being carried on Sony Records (for a while) or Sweden's (though at least one of the guys was living in Berlin) Covenant (also on Sony for a bit), the genre is small stuff. But at the same time, Belgian artists are often extremely well respected, and though it shouldn't work this way ... a new artist coming from Belgium *may* have a slightly better chance at having industrial music fans say, "Hmmm, I think I'll give this guy a try." due to your nation's long history of producing many great artists (in this small genre).

In any event, I think it is something to brag about!!!

Please. PLEASE. Stop yacking about American Fries. Belgium (or the people living in this country before 1830) invented fries. There is nothing that can change that, not even the global marketing succes of the Mac.

And another thing: don't be so proud about that "junk food global leader". It has killed lots of people.

But a beer never hurt a sole! :rollseyes

Lighten up guy!

How could you not put Canada on the poll, Beer is a third of are national pride, the other thirds are Hockey and timmy's (Tim Hortons).

And in holland you've got people who speak a dialect of Dutch, german, English, danish and probably chinese too all in one. How do you call 'em? Friesen ? :D:D Nu kgeloof ook in kabouterkes :p

No not 48 layers of kevlar and a brick wall. Just 48 layers of Kevlar. I think it about penetrates a tank. Haha, a shipload of these in the wrong (say getto gansta "fuck the police" type) hands and we're truely fucked. Haha, a cop with 49 kevlar vests :D. Only one would fit in a SWAT vehicle. :D The movie SWAT with only one charactre an unbelievable unhandy Samuel L Jackson that looks like Oprah before she had her lipo.
I'm totally picturing Samuel alone in the back of a Swat van with 48 kevlar vests. And then they shoot him in the ass :D

Fries is a dialect from another tribe in the Roman time. Most of Holland was inhabited by the Germanics but not Friesland (I don't know with tribe was). Anyway my point is. Dutch/Flemish (whatever), French and German are all OFFICIAL FIRST languages in certain parts of Belgium.

PS I live in Dutch Limburg. I have more love for the Flemish then I do for everyone above the Mass and the Rijn (and Zeeland, bunch of christians)

Germany I think makes the best. Tis only my opinion.

I'm totally picturing Samuel alone in the back of a Swat van with 48 kevlar vests. And then they shoot him in the ass :D

Fries is a dialect from another tribe in the Roman time. Most of Holland was inhabited by the Germanics but not Friesland (I don't know with tribe was). Anyway my point is. Dutch/Flemish (whatever), French and German are all OFFICIAL FIRST languages in certain parts of Belgium.

PS I live in Dutch Limburg. I have more love for the Flemish then I do for everyone above the Mass and the Rijn (and Zeeland, bunch of christians)
Frisians are a Germanic tribe. And they have lived there ever since 600 BC. Give or take a few decades.

Fisians were Germanic, sorry.

Friesland was inhabited by Frisians and Saksons, the rest of holland by the Franks (all germanic tribes)

I havent actually had the chance to try out any foreign beer apart from import - Im in UK

Fisians were Germanic, sorry.

Friesland was inhabited by Frisians and Saksons, the rest of holland by the Franks (all germanic tribes)
Actually in Saxons and Franks didn't exist untill about the 3rd century AD.
Tribes that lived in the Netherlands where: The Frisians, Batavians, Kanninefatie (sp) and Tubanti(sp). The latter 2 later on where integratet into the Frisian tribe.

Actually in Saxons and Franks didn't exist untill about the 3rd century AD.
Tribes that lived in the Netherlands where: The Frisians, Batavians, Kanninefatie (sp) and Tubanti(sp). The latter 2 later on where integratet into the Frisian tribe.
On what f*cking site have I been verifying? I though the top 3 on google would do.

Are you a historian?

Anyway. Fries guys speak a different dialect then all of Holland because there was a different germanic tribe who lived there in the past. (Is that correct?)

Are you a historian?
Hobbyist.

Anyway. Fries guys speak a different dialect then all of Holland because there was a different germanic tribe who lived there in the past. (Is that correct?)
Yes. Correct. Allthough almost every region has it's own dialect. But there's also a uniform language tought in school to everyone. Since the dialects would cause mass confusion. The Frisians however managed to get their dialect registerd as a seperate language. Officials who want to work in West Frisia are required to speak Frisian. And they honor their own culture and heritage more then most others.

Yes. Correct. Allthough almost every region has it's own dialect. But there's also a uniform language tought in school to everyone. Since the dialects would cause mass confusion. The Frisians however managed to get their dialect registerd as a seperate language. Officials who want to work in West Frisia are required to speak Frisian. And they honor their own culture and heritage more then most others.
Except for: LIMBURG!!! CARNAVAL!!! BEER!!! TALKING FUNNY BUT NOT NAGGING TO GET IT OFFICIALLLY A LANGUAGE (they did but it failed)!!!

On what f*cking site have I been verifying? I though the top 3 on google would do.

Are you a historian?

Anyway. Fries guys speak a different dialect then all of Holland because there was a different germanic tribe who lived there in the past. (Is that correct?)

With the number blogs and political pages out these days, I would say even a google search isn't gonna always give you the best advice ... though I tend to rely on googling as well. :)

I think the basic idea (avoiding actual history here) is that Dutch and English are Germanic languages. Germany, the Netherlands, England, and their various colonies (including the United States) at the very least have a shared history ...

What I don't know about is the history of Flanders (?) (northern Belgium). While I understand that Spain controlled all three Low Countries, I've always *thought* (and could be wrong) that the division of the Netherlands (and Luxembourg) from Belgium had an awful lot to do with religion: Catholics vs. Protestants. With Luxembourg gaining its own independence from the Netherlands when the Dutch crown passed to a ~female~, thus allowing the Dutchy to fall into the hands of a branch of the Dutch royal family (and I recall that this was a very popular idea at the time in the minds of most Luxembourgers).


I do find it interesting though that a thread on beer seems to really focus heavily on a few societies:

1. the Low Countries
2. Germany
3. Czechsolvakia / Bohemia

I'm sure I'm missing / ignoring some of the other discussions, but it sure seems to me that many of the folks in this thread are looking in a few very specific locations. Perhaps the question has been mostly answered? ;)

you northern hemishere people have no idea, the best beer is steinlager from new zealand. in australia beer is a drink to be enjoyed in hot weather to quench your thirst so you need an icy cold lager, the lighter the better.

What I don't know about is the history of Flanders (?) (northern Belgium). While I understand that Spain controlled all three Low Countries, I've always *thought* (and could be wrong) that the division of the Netherlands (and Luxembourg) from Belgium had an awful lot to do with religion: Catholics vs. Protestants. With Luxembourg gaining its own independence from the Netherlands when the Dutch crown passed to a ~female~, thus allowing the Dutchy to fall into the hands of a branch of the Dutch royal family (and I recall that this was a very popular idea at the time in the minds of most Luxembourgers).


You're right, Philip II of Spain was a catholic king, and he tried to enforce catholicism upon the people down here. The Belgians complied, the Dutch rebelled, ergo, two new countries emerged.

After the Napoleontic wars, the two countries were put back together for short period of time, but the Belgians declared themselves independant because the Dutch king, I think it was William III, was a righteous arse.

About the whole language thingy, Belgian people speak Dutch and French, there's hardly any difference between a Dutchman's Dutch and a Belgian's Dutch.

Except for: LIMBURG!!! CARNAVAL!!! BEER!!! TALKING FUNNY BUT NOT NAGGING TO GET IT OFFICIALLLY A LANGUAGE (they did but it failed)!!!

Actually, we didn't... Well, not completely fail that is... You can now take HBO Courses in Limburgs in Sittard, on the Fontys Hogescholen. That's sort of acknowledging it's a language...

Still, Limburg rocks! We should become independant ;)

You're right, Philip II of Spain was a catholic king, and he tried to enforce catholicism upon the people down here. The Belgians complied, the Dutch rebelled, ergo, two new countries emerged.

After the Napoleontic wars, the two countries were put back together for short period of time, but the Belgians declared themselves independant because the Dutch king, I think it was William III, was a righteous arse.

About the whole language thingy, Belgian people speak Dutch and French, there's hardly any difference between a Dutchman's Dutch and a Belgian's Dutch.


I disagree with your latest statement. There is a huge difference in pronounciation between flemish people and dutch people (allthough the many dialects in both differ too).

For example: a teacher of mine once went to poland with some other flemish people and after half a day, their guide asked them what language they were speaking as he didn't recognise it. He said they spoke dutch and the guide refused to believe them as he had guided a lot of dutch groups and it sounded way different. The words are mostly the same, but there is a difference.

I disagree with your latest statement. There is a huge difference in pronounciation between flemish people and dutch people (allthough the many dialects in both differ too).

For example: a teacher of mine once went to poland with some other flemish people and after half a day, their guide asked them what language they were speaking as he didn't recognise it. He said they spoke dutch and the guide refused to believe them as he had guided a lot of dutch groups and it sounded way different. The words are mostly the same, but there is a difference.

That's no reference. I speak in a dialect spoken in West-Flanders. I moved to Antwerp. They couldn't understand me and vice versa. but, with a little effort, that problem was solved.

Now about forgetting some countries in the poll: yes I should have put Australia, Chech Republic, Canada, New-Zealand, Estonia, Brazil (merger with interbrew remember) and so on in the possibilities. Fact is, there's a maximum of ten options, so there's no chance in pleasing everyone. I think the category was the best thing to do.

The only reason I can think of that the USA is getting any votes is because of Samuel Adams, the only respectable widely-sold beer that comes out of this country.

I voted for Ireland, for the record.

I disagree with your latest statement. There is a huge difference in pronounciation between flemish people and dutch people (allthough the many dialects in both differ too).

For example: a teacher of mine once went to poland with some other flemish people and after half a day, their guide asked them what language they were speaking as he didn't recognise it. He said they spoke dutch and the guide refused to believe them as he had guided a lot of dutch groups and it sounded way different. The words are mostly the same, but there is a difference.

OK, this is starting to get much more interesting than many NationStates discussions ... :)

Forgive my ignorance here, but is "Flemish" also a Germanic language?

The reason I ask, is when I was in London, I couldn't understand a bloody word spoken by the native born Londoners, but forutnately I could find many Indian born British citizens who could not only speak American English (and well), but were more than happy to translate my American English into whatever god awful dialect Londoners seem to speak.

The truth is, all three groups: the American from California (me), the Londoners born and raised there, and the British who may have been raised somewhere else, all spoke English ... probably all speak it perfectly well in our own regions as well. There is at least a language similarity ... but over time we've each developed our *own* distinctiveness.

If Flemish does borrow heavily from Dutch, the differences between the two are just a bit more advanced than the differences you'll here in a Frankfurter's German versus a Leipziger's German. And here again, having learned German from an American who in turn learned his German pre-1989, when I'm in Saxony, I can barely understand the Germans, but the closer I get to France the much easier time I have in understanding them.

In other words, regional dialects are pretty regular.

But I had always assumed that Flemish was its own language ... am I wrong?

Also I *also* assumed that the southern half of Belgium, i.e. the part south of Brussels, was basically French language based (and possibly culturally influenced as well). Again, I could be so completely wrong here ...

Tying this all into beer brewing ... even if all of these pieces of the Low Countries speak different languages and have extensive histories of their own, making beer and trade are both two things Europeans have been doing *long* before they also migrated / colonized other places. While in North America you'll hear about "German Styled Micro Breweries" or "Belgian Styled Micro Breweries", I'm gonna guess that most American beer drinkers don't show a loyality based on "name" or "brewing process", but taste alone. :9

If I had a German Styled MicroBrewery, and if there was something going on at a competitors Belgian Styled MicroBrewery, I'd at least be tempted to steal their good ideas as well. And for the big stretch, how many European breweries are still turning out the same beer they were long ago? I'm guessing the processes have been refined and cross bred a bit.

NOTE: It would be a riot if somebody now tried to draft a NationStates beer brewing standardization / quality act, huh? ;)

The only reason I can think of that the USA is getting any votes is because of Samuel Adams, the only respectable widely-sold beer that comes out of this country.

While I do like some Sam Adams and agree that you can find this across the US easily, I'm gonna guess you've not been to Seattle, Portland, or San Francisco then.

In San Francisco I *highly* recommend:

Gordon Biersch and Anchor Steam

You'll find these beers served in most Northern California sporting events. And my home town of Davis has a Germany Styled Brewery, Sudwerks, that is AWESOME.

But the US West Coast has many microbreweries, and many of them are amazing. This shouldn't be surprising, as this same region is also home to many internationally respected vinyards as well. But West Coast Americans are very proud *and* careful in their making of their drinks.

242, Lords of Acid, Wumpscut, Pitchfork, exactly! (But 242 are Belgian and not German ... I'm not sure about where the Lords of Acid are from. Rudy of Wumpscut was inspired by Leatherstrip's Clause Larsen -- of Denmark, and was carried by the now history Belgian label Zoth Ommog.)


I know very well that 242 and Lords of Acid are Belgian, I guess my sentence wasn't built that clear. I like some industrial music, but I'm not really into industrial.
My favourites
"Soylent Grün" Wumpscut
"Endzeit" PP
"Headhunter" 242
"Destillat" DI remix by VNV nation
"rollergirl" by Apoptygma (but it doesn't really sound industrial does it, Deep Red or Non stop violence is very good as well)
"Ad mortem festinamus" Qntal
"Acid Bath" Suicide C
"TV treated" NJ

And some other :p But where industrial stops and electro or new wave begins I don't know.

oh and "Hass" by Das Ich, really nice, but like I said, am not really in to it. :D

man how off topic can I go :D

Hobbyist.

Yes. Correct. Allthough almost every region has it's own dialect. But there's also a uniform language tought in school to everyone. Since the dialects would cause mass confusion. The Frisians however managed to get their dialect registerd as a seperate language. Officials who want to work in West Frisia are required to speak Frisian. And they honor their own culture and heritage more then most others.

wow wow, are you Dutch or German? I mean there is more comparison between Dutch and German then between Dutch and Frisian. Can we talk about dialect? Anyhow, could it be that Frisian also was influenced by trade with say the english and the danes?

Those frisians, harder to understand than Germans...then again, Limburgers wouldn't understand West-Flemish and vice versa (unless they're slow speaking Hasselaars :D)

OK, this is starting to get much more interesting than many NationStates discussions ... :)

Forgive my ignorance here, but is "Flemish" also a Germanic language?

The reason I ask, is when I was in London, I couldn't understand a bloody word spoken by the native born Londoners, but forutnately I could find many Indian born British citizens who could not only speak American English (and well), but were more than happy to translate my American English into whatever god awful dialect Londoners seem to speak.

The truth is, all three groups: the American from California (me), the Londoners born and raised there, and the British who may have been raised somewhere else, all spoke English ... probably all speak it perfectly well in our own regions as well. There is at least a language similarity ... but over time we've each developed our *own* distinctiveness.

If Flemish does borrow heavily from Dutch, the differences between the two are just a bit more advanced than the differences you'll here in a Frankfurter's German versus a Leipziger's German. And here again, having learned German from an American who in turn learned his German pre-1989, when I'm in Saxony, I can barely understand the Germans, but the closer I get to France the much easier time I have in understanding them.

In other words, regional dialects are pretty regular.

But I had always assumed that Flemish was its own language ... am I wrong?

Also I *also* assumed that the southern half of Belgium, i.e. the part south of Brussels, was basically French language based (and possibly culturally influenced as well). Again, I could be so completely wrong here ...




Flemish is a form of Dutch so it is Germanic. But we have been influenced by the French, especially in West-Flanders, I guess we've got about the most french words in our dialect and curses of course :D

The thing about Flemish is the following. Our dialect isn't one dialect its hundreds. For instance. Both my grandparents on mothers side and grandparents on my fathers side live in West-Flanders. They only live about 15 km away, but sometimes they don't understand each other, due to the different way of pronouncing and other words. Like we say "talluore" when talking about a plate (to eat from), when you cross the river nearby, only a few km of my home town, they call it "assiete" coming from french for dinnerplate. But the really cool thing about West-Flemish (and let me brag about it :D) is the following. We hardly pronounce. We swallow every noun that doesn't need pronouncing to be understood :D. Thats why many have trouble understanding us.

For instance:


English :: Dutch :: West-Flemish
to have::hebben::èn
I have :: ik heb :: kee
you have :: jij hebt :: gèt
he has :: hij heeft :: jee
we have :: wij hebben :: wèn
you have :: jullie hebben :: gèt
they have :: zij hebben :: zèn

one more

they had :: zij hadden :: zan :D hows that for making things more simple. We rule !! But the stupidest thing about West-Flemish is the fact that the people who speak the purest form of West-Flemish live in French-Flanders just across of the border. Only the older folks speak it, its dieing out. They never got loose from the "evil tyrannie" of the French and were prohibited to speak their dialect, but they did! Otherwise they wouldn't have been real Flemings :D. The original Flanders, historical speaking of course, is: French Flanders, West-Flanders, East-Flanders and Zeeuws Flanders (in holland). But eventually Flanders became the Dutch speaking (dialects) area that was catholic and Holland were the Protestants (Calvinists and such I guess). Wallony has always been kind of separated too from other countries, I guess thats why they joined Belgium. But you should ask someone else about it, haven't got time to dig up my history books.


further, each big city tends to have its own dialect, Bruges, Gent, Aalst (:p), Brussels, Antwerp, Haaaaasselt (:D).

, Aalst (:p), Brussels, Antwerp, Haaaaasselt (:D).

It is " Oilsjt" (ajoin en bier mè schoim), btw Flemish is not a dialect, people speak Dutch or dialect and are Flemish (it is not a language) such like the Austrians speak their form og German.

It's Belgium, end of story.

Which country plays the best Basketball? The US.
Which country has the most land? Russia.
Which country Speacks japanese the best? Japan.
Which country make the best beer? Belgium.

What is the argument about?

It is " Oilsjt" (ajoin en bier mè schoim), btw Flemish is not a dialect, people speak Dutch or dialect and are Flemish (it is not a language) such like the Austrians speak their form og German.

It depends on how chauvinistic you are I guess :D officially you're right, but...don't for instance Antwerp has its own dictionary? You probably being from "Oilsjt" should claim "Oilsjts" to be a language :D.

Dutch and Germanic evolved from "Diets", so wich one is a dialect of wich? Not only pronounciation defers from normal Dutch when speaking some Flemish dialect, sometimes grammar changes too. For instance some dialects still make the difference between male and female objects: die vrouw, diene vent, diene boom, die kast... but eventually your right. A kick in my West-Flemish chauvinistic nuts :p

this really depends on your individual tastes. Most of you are talking about lager which is different to ale (we call beer in Britain).

I've been all over teh World and teh best beer comes from Kentish hops so Britain is the best place for beer as its the only one that does it properly.

America sells weak, yellow fizzy water. Belgium makes some nice lagers but not beer.

As I don;lt like lager I'm slightly biased

Ohhh I was brought up th eold fashioned way where lager was a drink for women - the man would have a pint and the woman would have half a lager and lime (not that long ago as I'm only in my early 30s)

there's a border of Neather-Diets <-> Middle-Diets dialect right next to my home town (Maasbree, Dutch Limburg). We speak a Neather-Diets (or the other way around, not sure) dialect, main characteristic is a tendency to shorten vowels (sp?), while all of the near towns and cities speak Middle-Diets (Venlo), they lengthen them.

yeah... we get conflicts especially when you go to school there.
We vs Them
Mandig - Maondaag
Twedde - Twiejede

America sells weak, yellow fizzy water. Belgium makes some nice lagers but not beer.


If we do not make beer, what are you making then. I suggest that you come over to my place and have a real taste of what beer is all about. What have you tried, ypui might have tried the exportbeers like Hoegaarden, or some other beer, of which you can say that is not really beer, but you really have to try the beers brew by our monks or even the smaller local brewers, they are better than every other possinle 'beer' in the world.

I've been all over teh World and teh best beer comes from Kentish hops so Britain is the best place for beer as its the only one that does it properly.


Exsqeeze me? beer comes from the dutch word Bier. And if it's Bier, it's bier, no matter what you call it in Britain.

Dutch and English have indeed many similarities. To go on topic, here comes a translation of a few regional Belgian Beers:

Duvel = Devil
Kasteelbier = Castle Beer
Palm = Palm
Leffe = Guts
and so on...

Exsqeeze me? beer comes from the dutch word Bier. And if it's Bier, it's bier, no matter what you call it in Britain.

Um ... the Dutch word bier comes from the German word bier. ;)

wow wow, are you Dutch or German?
German.

I mean there is more comparison between Dutch and German then between Dutch and Frisian. Can we talk about dialect? Anyhow, could it be that Frisian also was influenced by trade with say the english and the danes?
Yeah. Very possible. Frisians sometimes tagged along with the Danish Vikings when they went on a roadtrip to England.

this really depends on your individual tastes. Most of you are talking about lager which is different to ale (we call beer in Britain).

I've been all over teh World and teh best beer comes from Kentish hops so Britain is the best place for beer as its the only one that does it properly.

America sells weak, yellow fizzy water. Belgium makes some nice lagers but not beer.

As I don;lt like lager I'm slightly biased

Ohhh I was brought up th eold fashioned way where lager was a drink for women - the man would have a pint and the woman would have half a lager and lime (not that long ago as I'm only in my early 30s)

Lager vs. Ale.

Should have come up ealier, but a lager is bottom fermented IIRC and an ale top. The Belgians, Germans, Americans, and everybody else make em both.

The weak, yelllow fizzy water: MGD, Coors, Butwater ... that ain't beer. That is just blech juice, given to our working classes to trick them into staying there. ;) (I'm joking, but the stuff is bad.)

We do make good stuff too. Just not as many fine beers as other countries make.

I would have voted "USA" but people would have thought I wasn't serious ... and to an extent I am. There is a hidden clause in the question that might or might not apply. How is the product available? Does one consider only beer available for export, or do you have to go to the source to get your brew?

In the United States there are a large number of so called "Brew Pubs" small estblishments that own a few stills and who make enough beer to sell in their own pub. Some also have a limited distribution to the local area markets.

I live on Long Island. I know several brew pubs whose ales and largers are of exceptional quality. My favorite brew pub has a stained glass window of Teddy Rosevelt in a bishop's outfit, sort of looking like the American quivalent of St. Patrick. They only sell at their brewpub but you can take it home through large deposit bottles which they fill right on the spot for you. (They even label them if they remember to have a marker at the bar.)

As a Belgian i voted Belgium, simply because we have the best beer around.
Jupiler, Duvel, Maes Pils, Palm etc. And a good Kriek is also welcome (preferrebly a Lindeman)
This Thread is a just shows how succesful Interbrew(now InBev) is.

Dutch and Germanic evolved from "Diets", so wich one is a dialect of wich?

My guess is modern Dutch evolved from German, though not the modern German language of today. In the US I was taught that English came from the root language German, not Dutch, and that Dutch is a different "Germanic" language.

I don't see any reason why American schools would be teaching that our language came from Germany and not the Netherlands, considering that politically speaking for years both the United Kingdom and United States have enjoyed very close relations with the Netherlands.

Maybe when everybody was trading languages, they also traded brewing tips. ;)


Though I found your other post about dialects very interesting. Is it traditional for families to not move from city to city?

My guess is modern Dutch evolved from German, though not the modern German language of today. In the US I was taught that English came from the root language German, not Dutch, and that Dutch is a different "Germanic" language.
Every germanic language is related with each other.
English originated from the time of the great wandering. Some Anglos (from Denmark), Saxonians (from todays Germany) and juts (sp?) - don´t know where they were from) were moving to England in the 5 th century. From that the term anglo-saxon originates: Anglo-Saxon- later England.
Though English was also influenced by the normands - 1066 William the conquoror. English therefore has more Latin (or/and French) vocabulary than other germanic languages - though they were influenced by Latin and later French as well.

I think 'Grolsch' is the best beer in the World. And I love their flip-top bottles. However one beer I really enjoy in Summer is Mac's 'Blonde' with orange and coriander (NZ). After a hot day working on the tan at the beach, there's nothing nicer! Montieth's 'Summer Ale', with Rata Honey and spices is also a winner.
BTW I've found that China makes some very drinkable and rather nice beers. Most are local, so you can't get them for export. Cheap too. 5 cans for $10 Yuan (approx. $1.20US/70p UK). 5% too.

My guess is modern Dutch evolved from German, though not the modern German language of today. In the US I was taught that English came from the root language German, not Dutch, and that Dutch is a different "Germanic" language.

Language changes and develops. There used to be many dialects. In the Middle Age there was however Middle High German (as languages of the knifes). This language changed to the so-called second vowel change. Which happened in german but not in other germanic languages.
Well: Luther in his Bible translation (1520 following) already used a language understandable for modern Germans. That can´t be said for the language of the early middle age.
So at that time - or rather begining before that and continuing at that time things developed in different directions.

The best beer in my opinion is New Glarus Belgian Red, a wonderful ale brewed with cherries in the Belgian kriek tradition. It is brewed in New Glarus, Wisconsin. New Glarus makes many very excellent beers. I am an avid US microbrew fan, although I am no stranger to many foreign beers. My favorite stout is Lion, brewed in Sri Lanka, my favorite lager is Paulaner Salvator, which is German, but its really quite difficult to narrow your favorite beer down to one. It really depends on my mood, the weather, what I'm eating or have eaten, etc etc. I definately don't like mass produced beers like Miller, Budweiser, Busch, etc. They're gross.

The best beer in my opinion is New Glarus Belgian Red, a wonderful ale brewed with cherries in the Belgian kriek tradition. It is brewed in New Glarus, Wisconsin.

In my opinion you can't sell a beer as belgian if it isn't made here in our country. What make you Americans think you could name products after us if they ain't got any connection with our country. It's probably the America imperealistic view of themselves or am I wrong.

Perhaps this is a bit off topic, but this thread actually motivated me to go ahead and draft up a NS UN Free Trade proposal about beer. ;)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=356574

I'm hoping it doesn't get deleted for not being "serious" enough, but I think it is.

Lets look at the facts, Guinness, made in Britain, Carlsberg, made in britain, Stella Artois, made in britain. As a brit, i have to say all the foreign beers are made in britain. And then that doesnt account for the gorgeous british beers, Boddingtons, Newcastle Brown....ooh im creaming my drinking pants

In my opinion you can't sell a beer as belgian if it isn't made here in our country. What make you Americans think you could name products after us if they ain't got any connection with our country. It's probably the America imperealistic view of themselves or am I wrong.
1. I'm sure the connection is that its brewed in the Belgian kriek style
2. You are entitled to your opinion
3. Although I am an American I have no control over the names of any American products, I was merely saying what my favorite beer was.
4. What is probably is its probably New Glarus beer telling the customers what kind of beer they are buying, and if you don't like that, then write them a letter.
5. You're not necessarily wrong, but you are coming off as indignant self-righteous Euro-trash, and I might be wrong too, but thats my opinion and I guess I'm entitled to it.
6. I am by no means a supporter of American corporate consumer culture, which is why I support local microbreweries such as New Glarus (which was originally settled by Swiss and Belgian immigrants, FYI)
7. Please don't turn a debate about beer into a debate about politics
Thank you, and cheers.

I didn't mean to be rude with that last message, btw, but I don't like mixing beer and politics. It can turn anyone into a jackass. :)

Why in heck don't I see Czech up there? :O

I didn't mean to be rude with that last message, btw, but I don't like mixing beer and politics. It can turn anyone into a jackass. :)

Do you mean politics under the influence or politics about the influence? *snicker*

With that in mind ... join us, let's bring the beer debates to the UN floor and just see how twisted we can mix up beer and politics. ;)

Um ... the Dutch word bier comes from the German word bier. ;)

eh the word bier is a "diets" word, the language from which German and Dutch originated :D

My guess is modern Dutch evolved from German, though not the modern German language of today. In the US I was taught that English came from the root language German, not Dutch, and that Dutch is a different "Germanic" language.

I don't see any reason why American schools would be teaching that our language came from Germany and not the Netherlands, considering that politically speaking for years both the United Kingdom and United States have enjoyed very close relations with the Netherlands.

Maybe when everybody was trading languages, they also traded brewing tips. ;)


Though I found your other post about dialects very interesting. Is it traditional for families to not move from city to city?


They didn't trade brewing tips, many of our brewers went over there, even recently the person that re-invented Hoegaarden went to the USA to help a local brewer make witbier like hoegaarden and I even think it already won a few prizes. But as for me, i don't like witbier. Dishwater :D BUT very good with a lemon when the weather is hot.

About the dialects. You state that Dutch evolved from German, but not the modern German. Well that "not modern German" we call "Diets", Dutch and German are Diets languages.

As for the english. I think there was celtic influence (the aboriginals of the UK sort of speak), then came the Germanic tribes, the Angles and the Saxons (from northern Netherlands and Denmark if I'm not mistaken) and those opposed their language that became English (~Angles). Later on the center of England became occupied by the Danes, with the whole Danelaw thingy. Those people must have been influenced in their language too. And eventually the Normandics took reign over England and put a whole bunch of French words in the English language, like palace, pork, mouton, to regard, ...

Now I'm not sure if Denmark its language is considered Diets as well, but my guess it belongs to the Northern Germanic languages, Scandinavian. Together with the Norwegians and the Swedes.

That of moving from city to city. I know of my grandfather that if young men of a town closeby came after some of the girls they usually got beaten up :D. But no, many people move to big cities, Gent for instance has many many West Flemish people. Antwerp is filled with Dutch people :D You can usually hear them from streets away, very loud people, usually taller, more robust, blonder and with a strong set of teeth :D. But that isn't the case with every Duthman of course.

I think 'Grolsch' is the best beer in the World. And I love their flip-top bottles. However one beer I really enjoy in Summer is Mac's 'Blonde' with orange and coriander (NZ). After a hot day working on the tan at the beach, there's nothing nicer! Montieth's 'Summer Ale', with Rata Honey and spices is also a winner.
BTW I've found that China makes some very drinkable and rather nice beers. Most are local, so you can't get them for export. Cheap too. 5 cans for $10 Yuan (approx. $1.20US/70p UK). 5% too.

Haha, Grolsch, who calls their beer after a cat in heat? :D:D:D just joking.

Who's the best in making beer? I'm not talking about yellow water, I'm talking quality, flavour, tradition.

Ah, I'm not that much of a beer-drinker (is that the right word?) but generally I think that dark beer stuff from those Irish pups is really tasty... or ah well, as tasty as beer can get to someone who doesn't like that stuff....

yeah, bacardi breezer is the best beer... :cool: (sarcasm) so Cuba rules the beer waves

Why in heck don't I see Czech up there? :O

Aye, thats a country that should be up.

Originally Posted by Lies Incorporated
Why in heck don't I see Czech up there? :O
Aye, thats a country that should be up.

Because they caused a whole lot of our Belgian small breweries to go bankrupt due to the very cheap pilsner they flooded the market with :p and because the poll has but a few possibilities to fill in, so you'll have to go for "other" then. ;)

Because they caused a whole lot of our Belgian small breweries to go bankrupt due to the very cheap pilsner they flooded the market with :p and because the poll has but a few possibilities to fill in, so you'll have to go for "other" then. ;)

Nah, in keeping with the tradition, we should replace Belgium with Chzech then. ;)

Originally Posted by Even Further
The best beer in my opinion is New Glarus Belgian Red, a wonderful ale brewed with cherries in the Belgian kriek tradition. It is brewed in New Glarus, Wisconsin.

In my opinion you can't sell a beer as belgian if it isn't made here in our country. What make you Americans think you could name products after us if they ain't got any connection with our country. It's probably the America imperealistic view of themselves or am I wrong.
In my opinion you can't sell a beer as belgian if it isn't made here in our country. What make you Americans think you could name products after us if they ain't got any connection with our country. It's probably the America imperealistic view of themselves or am I wrong.

You're very right. Its like calling some Californian fizzy white wine Champagne while the only real Champagne you can find in the region around Reims, France. It really gets on my nerves too that there is being '"Belgian Chocolate" sold and it contains plant oils instead of only cacao mass and cacao fat! And the percentage of cacao is usually very low. We should get some label like we have on our Trappists. Only Belgian beer/chocolate can have the label "Belgian beer/chocolate". Then our good rep wouldn't be destroyed by some incompetent quack that thinks every beer with an alcohol percentage above 7% and some herbs or fruit thrown in is one of our many styles of Belgian beer.

Nah, in keeping with the tradition, we should replace Belgium with Chzech then. ;)

Your sarcastic remark injures my chauvinistic belgian heart deeply...:p they invented low alcohol pilsner, they can't match our clear superiority when it comes to making real beer :D.

Close call between belgium and germany. check republic definitely deserves a category of their own.

Have to agree. that republic does good beer. (Carefully not spelling first name, which I am certain has a "z" in some where!?)

You're very right. Its like calling some Californian fizzy white wine Champagne while the only real Champagne you can find in the region around Reims, France. It really gets on my nerves too that there is being '"Belgian Chocolate" sold and it contains plant oils instead of only cacao mass and cacao fat! And the percentage of cacao is usually very low. We should get some label like we have on our Trappists. Only Belgian beer/chocolate can have the label "Belgian beer/chocolate". Then our good rep wouldn't be destroyed by some incompetent quack that thinks every beer with an alcohol percentage above 7% and some herbs or fruit thrown in is one of our many styles of Belgian beer.

Hey man, its all good. You know, I don't mind that people in Belgium think that 'American pizza' is pizza with corn and green beans on it.... Seriously, I saw it in Brussels. As far as incompetent quackery goes, the New Glarus beer in question won a world championship- so I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't knock it till you try it! I try to keep an open mind and sample beers from all sorts of different countries and cultures. As far as style goes, world beer experts agree that the only place that the Austrian red beer style exists today is in Mexico, so don't be so quick to judge... Now I have to admit I voted for Belgium on the poll, because I do enjoy Belgian beer. But my favorite, is made in Wisconsin.

Hey man, its all good. You know, I don't mind that people in Belgium think that 'American pizza' is pizza with corn and green beans on it.... Seriously, I saw it in Brussels. As far as incompetent quackery goes, the New Glarus beer in question won a world championship- so I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't knock it till you try it! I try to keep an open mind and sample beers from all sorts of different countries and cultures. As far as style goes, world beer experts agree that the only place that the Austrian red beer style exists today is in Mexico, so don't be so quick to judge... Now I have to admit I voted for Belgium on the poll, because I do enjoy Belgian beer. But my favorite, is made in Wisconsin.

Please call it Belgian style American Beer? It may have won prizes, but it is still American beer, so why don't you call it American beer, then you have at least one good American beer :p. A shame it had to be a copy, but still... Pretty please, don't call it Belgian, call it Belgian fake or Belgian copy, Belgian counterfit or Belgian style. Copied Levis Jeans, they call it american jeans too, but it is still fake.

About that Austrian style red beer, the austrians once reigned over our pretty lands, they copied our kriek lambic or took some Flemish brewers with them to Austria. We could get a long rather well with those Austrians.

As for pizza...that is an Italian dish. They should have called it American style Pizza :p. Like the Fun Lovin' Criminals's restaurant in (london?), they call it an American Italian restaurant. With american styled italian dishes. Anyhow, corn...how american can you get? :D A cotton and thorns pizza wouldn't quite work now would it?

ehr and about that Glarus Red winning a world beer championship. I looked it up, they won platinum in 1995.

Started in 1994, the World Beer Championships are an on-going judging conducted by Chicago's Beverage Testing Institute (BTI), an independent company with no tie to brewers, associations or any brewing event which specializes in flavor evaluations. BTI has produced the World Wine Championships for over 15 years and the World Whiskey Championships for the past two years.

It was judged by an american jury! Not that they're judging is not bias, but ehm it isn't, here's why: their tastebuds have grown up with the typical american style tastes. You put sugar and fat in everything! You should at least have an international jury judging beers. American beers have been made or adapted to please an american audience. If the Jury is american...

Czech Republic

Where's Canada? Not that I think they're best, but a lot of people do.

"Started in 1994, the World Beer Championships are an on-going judging conducted by Chicago's Beverage Testing Institute (BTI), an independent company with no tie to brewers, associations or any brewing event which specializes in flavor evaluations. BTI has produced the World Wine Championships for over 15 years and the World Whiskey Championships for the past two years."

Come on, is this like the world series base ball?
I agree with the other poster unless a cross of all cultures is present how can they judge.
Plus how do you define 'best' for me it is what I like most and you are allowed to say whatever you like.

I am partial to Canadian beers...but I don't have a beer intending on becoming drunk. I've done a beer tasting thing at a local pub that specializes in foreign beers, tasted 175 or so different types from different countries so that I could get a t-shirt and a mug engraved with my name on it to drink out of when I visit that pub. So my experience is meager but at least I've attempted to try other beers. I didn't care for the darker thicker beers, I was partial to the lighter bodied sharp flavored beers. My friends have determined that I only like beer that smells of skunk (i.e. the Canadian lagers/pilsners) but ah well, that is what appeals to me! I also discovered during this beer tasting that a warm beer has a definite appeal...there are some beers whose flavor isn't apparent until the chill is gone. What an eye-opener for a midwesterner who was raised on Budweiser draught with a skim of ice on the top!

I am partial to Canadian beers...but I don't have a beer intending on becoming drunk. I've done a beer tasting thing at a local pub that specializes in foreign beers, tasted 175 or so different types from different countries so that I could get a t-shirt and a mug engraved with my name on it to drink out of when I visit that pub. So my experience is meager but at least I've attempted to try other beers. I didn't care for the darker thicker beers, I was partial to the lighter bodied sharp flavored beers. My friends have determined that I only like beer that smells of skunk (i.e. the Canadian lagers/pilsners) but ah well, that is what appeals to me! I also discovered during this beer tasting that a warm beer has a definite appeal...there are some beers whose flavor isn't apparent until the chill is gone. What an eye-opener for a midwesterner who was raised on Budweiser draught with a skim of ice on the top!

they put ice in beer.?? damn

All beer is nasty! Drink strongbow cider or blue aftershock....or both!

ehr and about that Glarus Red winning a world beer championship. I looked it up, they won platinum in 1995.

It was judged by an american jury! Not that they're judging is not bias, but ehm it isn't, here's why: their tastebuds have grown up with the typical american style tastes. You put sugar and fat in everything! You should at least have an international jury judging beers. American beers have been made or adapted to please an american audience. If the Jury is american...

Now that's just typically American I guess?
An all-American jury calling an American Beer the best beer in the world.
It's like an American jury calling a Pizza with corn and unions best Pizza Di Mare in the world.
Or George Bush proclaiming that America has a spotless reputation in international affairs, better than anyone else in the world.
You get the point.

I gotta say that Tetely's is my favaourite beer...A good Yorkshire drink!

1 out of four people prefer Belgian beer. It's proven.

(yes there should have been more categories, for Chech Republic, Canada, Estonia, Hupeldepup and whatever. But the gap between number one and the runner-up would be bigger.)

Czech beer from Pilzen of Course. Is this a trick poll?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Witzleben
Isn't Budweiser a Czech beer?



No, it's a Czech style Pilsner made in the US. It's not a particularly good Pilsner (Keruvalia)

No, you are wrong, the original is "Budweiser Budvar" and is a great beer, nothing to do with the US beer that stole their name. In fact it should be forbidden to make a beer called Budweiser (a town in Tchechya).