NationStates Jolt Archive

You who know, me..and not many do...may be asking yourself,

"Why is THAT guy asking a question specifically towards us? He must want to make fun of us or something."

Not true.

I simply would like to know how you, as a christian feel towards terrorism,
and more importantly, the terrorists themselves.

This isnt a political debate, so we dont have to bring up Washington right now.

You who know, me..and not many do...may be asking yourself,

"Why is THAT guy asking a question specifically towards us? He must want to make fun of us or something."

Not true.

I simply would like to know how you, as a christian feel towards terrorism,
and more importantly, the terrorists themselves.

This isnt a political debate, so we dont have to bring up Washington right now.

A martyr is a simple thing: someone who suffers for a higher cause. That's it. Contrary to popular belief, you don't have to die to be a martyr. However, if you give your life in the name of killing others, you serve no higher cause. You damn the very cause you fight for. Terrorism is evil. It may be spawned by other evil (oppressive governments being the big one currently, I guess), but it's evil none-the-less. Good religious people don't become terrorrists.



I hope I don't de-validate my point by quoting a video game, but I like the quote. From Vampire: The Masquerade: Redeption. A vampire's statement to a Christian crusader (your character) after you fail to repel her with a silver cross:
"Thou hast lost thy faith years ago. Thou art a killer of men. And one does not kill when compelled by God, but when ordered by men."
Then she eats you!

A martyr is a simple thing: someone who suffers for a higher cause. That's it. Contrary to popular belief, you don't have to die to be a martyr. However, if you give your life in the name of killing others, you serve no higher cause. You damn the very cause you fight for. Terrorism is evil. It may be spawned by other evil (oppressive governments being the big one currently, I guess), but it's evil none-the-less. Good religious people don't become terrorrists.



I hope I don't de-validate my point by quoting a video game, but I like the quote. From Vampire: The Masquerade: Redeption. A vampire's statement to a Christian crusader (your character) after you fail to repel her with a silver cross:
"Thou hast lost thy faith years ago. Thou art a killer of men. And one does not kill when compelled by God, but when ordered by men."
Then she eats you!




Interesting.

So, do you have any feelings towards the indivuals themselves?
Muhammad Ata, for instance? (9/11 hijacker)

Christianity, believe it or not, is a religion of peace and love. And God is all-loving and forgiving. I know it sounds revolting, but God loves terrorists as well. Nobody is as heartbroken as He is when they commit such henious acts. They are people who have their grievances, but taking their hate on children and planning it beforehand is disgusting. I pray to God that peace will fall upon the Earth.

Christianity, believe it or not, is a religion of peace and love. And God is all-loving and forgiving. I know it sounds revolting, but God loves terrorists as well. Nobody is as heartbroken as He is when they commit such henious acts. They are people who have their grievances, but taking their hate on children and planning it beforehand is disgusting. I pray to God that peace will fall upon the Earth.


Okay..same question to you.


"So, do you have any feelings towards the indivuals themselves?
Muhammad Ata, for instance? (9/11 hijacker) "

Interesting.

So, do you have any feelings towards the indivuals themselves?
Muhammad Ata, for instance? (9/11 hijacker)

If I believed in hell, I'd think they were in a lot of trouble. Whatever awaits us after death, I don't know. But I think Muhammad Ata chose the hard way. Have you ever seen "What Dreams May Come" with Robin Williams?
"Hell isn't a place with fire and brimstone. Hell is the knowledge of your life gone wrong." He's responsible for a lot of death, plus he's partially responsible for a war. If there's an afterlife, he's going to need to come to terms with that, one way or another.

I can personally say that this version of "hell" is pretty close to the truth as far as I'm concerned.

If I believed in hell, I'd think they were in a lot of trouble. Whatever awaits us after death, I don't know. But I think Muhammad Ata chose the hard way. Have you ever seen "What Dreams May Come" with Robin Williams?
"Hell isn't a place with fire and brimstone. Hell is the knowledge of your life gone wrong." He's responsible for a lot of death, plus he's partially responsible for a war. If there's an afterlife, he's going to need to come to terms with that, one way or another.

I can personally say that this version of "hell" is pretty close to the truth as far as I'm concerned.


I have seen that movie, and I fiind your perpective on Hell an interesting, and possibly even a realistic one.

Would you say that is fair to hate Ata, and those like him?

Well... let's see, I think the concept of terriorism is a noble idea. I mean christians at one time were terrorists (The crusades). However killing innocents and killing full stop is never right.
About the 9/11 people, I think they though that killing people was right but I am certain it is wrong.

I have seen that movie, and I fiind your perpective on Hell an interesting, and possibly even a realistic one.

Would you say that is fair to hate Ata, and those like him?

Is it fair to hate him? Yes.

Is it right to hate him? No.

I've always believed mercy to be more important than justice (funny, my name's Justin). Someone needs to just forgive his enemy, or the cycle never ends.



That reminds me, sometime later I need to explain "turn the other cheek" to you. It's my second-favorite misunderstood quote. Not terribly relevant to the discussion here, though. I'll should start a thread on mis-understood quotes sometime. I'm getting off work in 45 min, so I'm not going to bother right now.

No religion is a religion of "Peace & Love" sure the fundementals are there to be obeyed...but actually following the code of every religion would have lead to a much changed world to the one we live in today.

Just face it human beings are murderous and savage...especially religious people.

The Christian is faced with a dilemma so common that it has become a cliche within our circles: to hate the sin but love the sinner. To hate what terrorist do is not only reasonable, but necessary. To hate the terrorist himself, on the other hand, is simply wrong. "There but for the grace of God go I" is another oft-quoted phrase. Had I been rased in his culture, his circumstances, his family, his life, do I know for certain that I would not have made the same very wrong decisions that he has? I can hope that I wouldn't, but I can't say for certain.

That still makes Muhammad Ata's decisions wrong and evil. To love the sinner does not mean that you excuse their actions, or that you do not hold them accountable. It is the duty of governments to protect their people from harm, and to stop and to punish evildoers when possible. I want terrorist stopped, and when necessary, killed. But woe to me if I should ever take pleasure in their destruction. The Bible teaches us that God has no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked.

Okay..same question to you.


"So, do you have any feelings towards the indivuals themselves?
Muhammad Ata, for instance? (9/11 hijacker) "

I don't know - meaning I don't know, because I haven't thought about it at all.

So...if I understand some of your perspectives, you make several clear distinctions between the sinner....and the sin.
Or to me...the man, (or whoever) and the actions he has taken.

In particular, the phrase "Love the sinner, hate the sin."
How is it possible to separate a man, from what he has done?
I tend to see the extent of a mans character by his actions.
How he treats others, and what he makes of himself.

How do you separate the two?

I hope that the terrorists learn the error of their ways and find forgiveness.

Barring that, I hope they get hit by falling bricks. :p

I hope that the terrorists learn the error of their ways and find forgiveness.

Barring that, I hope they get hit by falling bricks*. :p







*Wich would be entirely coincidental and have nothing to do with a certain clown's actions, or desires.
Thank You,'
-Management.

*Wich would be entirely coincidental and have nothing to do with a certain clown's actions, or desires.
Thank You,'
-Management.
Indeed.

I would never kill anyone.

Unless they pissed me off.

Why kill the innocent in your cause, by becoming terorists? Why destoy the monuments that others have created? Do you indeed hate yourself so bad that you must take out you own hatred on the world around you?

Someday you may have children, and they may have a father and a mother. Someday, someone may take their life, for what? A piece of land? A thing called sacred, when we all know that the only sacred thing we have done, is create this child.

What is so honorable about the killing of those who do not put there own lives at jeapordy?

When each child cries for his mother of father, not knowing that they died for a higher cause, than themselves the children, I cry.

Kill each other, yes. Kill the children, the innocent? No.

*Sadly crying*

Jim SC

The terrorist acts are mostly performed due to a rabid adherence to the fundamental teachings of a violent religion. I dont like what they do, but I hate that they are misled more than what they do. I dont hate them or dislike them. I pity them. To me, we are all tools, but tools who get to pick which hands we fall into through choice or the absence of choice. In my mind they're being used to do horrible things. I dont believe that they would do those things if they could see their actions clearly, nevermind as far as a christian perspective. I hate that I can not help them.

I also dont believe that I am owed a happy, safe, or peaceful life on Earth. I dont feel inclined to question why I suffer. I'm grateful for what I do have and what I dont suffer from. From a bigger picture in earth to heaven format, I know that Yahweh knows I'll be alright no matter what happens here. I get hurt, I'll be okay. I die, I'll be even better for joining him. So, if on earth I play pawn on a chessboard with a strategy I dont know and I'm sacrificed for a greater goal, its just a stubbed toe on the way home.

Hell is something best udnerstood by reading about it from the beginning of the Bible onward. From what insights and comprehension I have been blessed with, I can say that I believe I understand that hell is what it was originally said to be: Being removed from God. It doesnt matter if your'e on fire, God is gone from you. I cant begin to describe the feeling there. How the politics of hell actually play out, I dont know. Are the inhabitants ultimately destroyed or do they live on forever? I dont know. My understanding of the concepts of fire revolve more around self destruction due to self rule and the entropy that lack of God creates. What I do think is that the absence of the creator who is currently in everything you are, think, or ever experience will render you so lonely and wounded that anything else just seems trivial to me.

The terrorist acts are mostly performed due to a rabid adherence to the fundamental teachings of a violent religion. I dont like what they do........... What I do think is that the absence of the creator who is currently in everything you are, think, or ever experience will render you so lonely and wounded that anything else just seems trivial to me.

Sorry for editing original post but it was quite long.

When I started reading your post, I thought you to be just another religious nut, which is a thought a now apologise for. Although i still fundamentally disagree with anybody who has a faith in any of the 'human god's', you make a very good point.

The actions of these terrorists are the result of misguided teachings of fundamentalist religious leaders who pray on the weak. A bit like (but obviously not to the same extent) the TV priests who ask people to give him money.

I accept that the majority of religious people live good, fair lives, my mother included. But religion will always allow people to take things one step further. I feel that until secularization is complete, and people start fighting and killing over real things, terrorism and war will never be understood.

I simply would like to know how you, as a christian feel towards terrorism,
and more importantly, the terrorists themselves.

I think terrorism is a great evil, and I think that the terrorists have tried to invoke God's name for something that He would NEVER be in support of--to me that's just about the worst kind of blasphemy you can engage in (note that I think we all worship the same God). Someone pointed out the Crusades. Those were wrong, too. It's my personal thought that Islam is coming near a point where there'll be a serious internal split of some sort (much more major than any dissent we see now) when eventually the goodhearted people really rise up and try to stop the terrorists from wrecking everything.

Just face it human beings are murderous and savage...
Who have you murdered today?

I accept that the majority of religious people live good, fair lives, my mother included. But religion will always allow people to take things one step further. I feel that until secularization is complete, and people start fighting and killing over real things, terrorism and war will never be understood.

It is naive to believe that human beings will only "fight and kill over real things" when religion is gone. How many people have died already over the ideas of democracy or communism and how one or the other was evil. How many people die over fictitious lines on the ground? Wars have been fought over religion, but it is a misunderstanding of most religions that lead to this. To say that religion itself is bad because some people use it to do bad things is like saying a blender is bad. After all, I could shove your hand into it and grind it up.

You who know, me..and not many do...may be asking yourself,

"Why is THAT guy asking a question specifically towards us? He must want to make fun of us or something."

Not true.

I simply would like to know how you, as a christian feel towards terrorism,
and more importantly, the terrorists themselves.

This isnt a political debate, so we dont have to bring up Washington right now.

A terrorist is someone who uses terror, fear, and pain on innocents to gain their objectives. I personally hate them.

Not to be confused with soldiers, who fight (or are supposed to fight) other soldiers. Also, a "civilian" shooting at you is a soldier.

Martyrs die defending their cause peacefully or against tyranny.

Terrorists die killing innocent people to defend their cause.

Somewhat blurry, I know...but, if you actually think about it and have a good set of morals, it's not hard.

I'm going to do something that I never do: answer a question on an internet message board without reading anyone else's responses first.
As a Christian, eh? Lately, I've been praying more and more that I don't think of myself as split in two: the Christian me and the doubtful me. I think both are Christian, or rather both are seeking God. But I digress.
*My actual response starts here.*
I don't think terrorists are any more evil than the rest of us. They, like most people, are trying to do what's right in the world around them. That said, their acts are evil. It is evil to murder people. It is evil to hate people. But what about our own actions? How many of us are truly working to help people and love them? The fervency of these men's belief is so great that they are willing to kill people they've never met, from a culture very different from their own. Am I willing to serve people I've never met from a culture different from my own? In my individualism and selfishness, I rarely do anything to help the people I do know. "That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked." -- Jesus, as recorded in Luke 12:47-48

So...if I understand some of your perspectives, you make several clear distinctions between the sinner....and the sin.
Or to me...the man, (or whoever) and the actions he has taken.

In particular, the phrase "Love the sinner, hate the sin."
How is it possible to separate a man, from what he has done?
I tend to see the extent of a mans character by his actions.
How he treats others, and what he makes of himself.

How do you separate the two?

I don't separate character from actions, but I also don't think liking a man's character is a requirement of love. Certainly, it's not a requirement of the love that the Bible says God has for us. I would like to have that kind of love, the kind of love that says, "No matter what kind of person you are, no matter how much you have hurt me, I'm willing to sacrifice everything for what's best for you." Imagine what it would be like if all the people who claim to follow Christ adopted that kind of attitude. Are we ready to sacrifice our own well-being, our time, our comfort, our lives, for a terrorist?

Sorry for editing original post but it was quite long.

When I started reading your post, I thought you to be just another religious nut, which is a thought a now apologise for. Although i still fundamentally disagree with anybody who has a faith in any of the 'human god's', you make a very good point.

The actions of these terrorists are the result of misguided teachings of fundamentalist religious leaders who pray on the weak. A bit like (but obviously not to the same extent) the TV priests who ask people to give him money.

I accept that the majority of religious people live good, fair lives, my mother included. But religion will always allow people to take things one step further. I feel that until secularization is complete, and people start fighting and killing over real things, terrorism and war will never be understood.

What "real things" are we supposed to be fighting and killing over? Isn't the purpose of "the kingdom of God" to put an end to all fighting and killing? If neither religion nor secularism has ever succeeded in bringing about peace to the whole world, why do we think either will now?
Also, why do we consider our current troubles with terrorism to be based solely in religion? Most of the roots lie in politics, human pride, poverty, ignorance and oppression. These things will always be with us and can wear the guise of secularism and religion quite well.

Wow. This is the most intelligent thread I've ever read. Kudos to all of you. :cool:

Although I hate the truly deplorable actions the terrorists give the heinously misguided label of Jihad, I hate not the individuals, but rather the taint they have invoked on Islam.
Contrary to popular belief, Islam is based on peaceful fundamentals, strikingly similar to Judaism(sp?) and Christianity. But, just as radicals have marred the names of these religions with misguided interpretations of their texts, Islam has been as well. However, because the major taint on Islam's face has happened so recently, people believe it is "evil".

I despise not the terrorists, but what they have done to their religion, the innocents who practice Islam peacefully, and all those who have died at the hands of their corrupted idealogy.

The Christian is faced with a dilemma so common that it has become a cliche within our circles: to hate the sin but love the sinner. To hate what terrorist do is not only reasonable, but necessary. To hate the terrorist himself, on the other hand, is simply wrong. "There but for the grace of God go I" is another oft-quoted phrase. Had I been rased in his culture, his circumstances, his family, his life, do I know for certain that I would not have made the same very wrong decisions that he has? I can hope that I wouldn't, but I can't say for certain.

That still makes Muhammad Ata's decisions wrong and evil. To love the sinner does not mean that you excuse their actions, or that you do not hold them accountable. It is the duty of governments to protect their people from harm, and to stop and to punish evildoers when possible. I want terrorist stopped, and when necessary, killed. But woe to me if I should ever take pleasure in their destruction. The Bible teaches us that God has no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked.

Just wanted to state my agreement with everything that's been said. :)

tolerance...
that's it

I don't separate character from actions, but I also don't think liking a man's character is a requirement of love. Certainly, it's not a requirement of the love that the Bible says God has for us. I would like to have that kind of love, the kind of love that says, "No matter what kind of person you are, no matter how much you have hurt me, I'm willing to sacrifice everything for what's best for you." Imagine what it would be like if all the people who claim to follow Christ adopted that kind of attitude. Are we ready to sacrifice our own well-being, our time, our comfort, our lives, for a terrorist?


Ahh..there it is.

Thats what I was wondering if any of you would remember, or mention.
"Love your enemies".
It seems you remember that pretty well, and yet, have a realistic approach to it.
Well done.

As for me, Im an athiest, so the religious aspect is lost on me, but not its philosophical meaning.

How then , with that in mind, does a christian go about "Loving" a person such as Muhammad Ata, or some other person who has done terrible deeds in the name of an opposite faith?

Now I'm not a religious person, I don't even believe in any god.

However to the question of terrorists. I believe they believe what they are doing is just as nobel as the Americans believe in what they are doing. They believe they are protecting what they believe and stand for the same as the Americans are doing. Perhaps the real solution is for every one to rule their own land and not try to impose their beliefs on others. On both sides.

Any man who kills an innocent in the name of God is an abomination to God who said "forgive them, for they know not what they do."

Now I'm not a religious person, I don't even believe in any god.

However to the question of terrorists. I believe they believe what they are doing is just as nobel as the Americans believe in what they are doing. They believe they are protecting what they believe and stand for the same as the Americans are doing. Perhaps the real solution is for every one to rule their own land and not try to impose their beliefs on others. On both sides.


I think that the thing to remember, is that not all Muslims believe that terrorism is noble, and not all Americans agree that its countrys actions in Iraq are noble.

You who know, me..and not many do...may be asking yourself,

"Why is THAT guy asking a question specifically towards us? He must want to make fun of us or something."

Not true.

I simply would like to know how you, as a christian feel towards terrorism,
and more importantly, the terrorists themselves.

This isnt a political debate, so we dont have to bring up Washington right now.
I am a Christian, Protestant, Baptist.
I am going to assume you mean the current rash of Islamic Terrorists.
I personally feel it to be a horrible blasphemy(I couldnt remember how to spell sacralidge) against God, the tenets of Islam as one of my friends in this game is so fond of pointing out strictly forbid with no exception the killing of children, and holy men(of any religion). It forbids treachery in combat, and it forbids mistreating prisoners(to a digree most nations would not even try to meet). The people who represent themselves as Muslims and then go out and commit these acts are defacing Islam and insulting God, by wrapping their own ideology in what is traditionally a tolerant. I eagerly await the silent majority of good Muslims to stand up and act against these infidels in Imams clothing. That however is just my opinion.

I think that the thing to remember, is that not all Muslims believe that terrorism is noble, and not all Americans agree that its countrys actions in Iraq are noble.

True, true!

Christianity, believe it or not, is a religion of peace and love. And God is all-loving and forgiving. I know it sounds revolting, but God loves terrorists as well. Nobody is as heartbroken as He is when they commit such henious acts. They are people who have their grievances, but taking their hate on children and planning it beforehand is disgusting. I pray to God that peace will fall upon the Earth.
I find your post on the feelings of God admirable, but he wanted YOUR opinion my man, or are you as forgiving as God?
I tip my hat to you if you are.
However what I left I out of my above post is that death is the only just answer to these* men.

death is the only just answer to men.

How so?

I think the war in Iraq is just as bad as the 9/11 attacks. The only difference is that they admitted it was terrorism, but we Americans hide behind justifications such as weapons of mass destruction and liberation of the opressed Iraqi people.

Religion is no excuse to kill people, especially when one of you commandments says "THOU SHALT NOT KILL." Religion is all hypocritical, and if you think about it, the only reason it came to be was to answer the questions of ignorant people. Now we can answer most of those questions scientifically. What makes the Judeo-Christian/Islamic religions any more ridiculous than Norse-Pagan mythology?

I think the war in Iraq is just as bad as the 9/11 attacks. The only difference is that they admitted it was terrorism, but we Americans hide behind justifications such as weapons of mass destruction and liberation of the opressed Iraqi people.

Religion is no excuse to kill people, especially when one of you commandments says "THOU SHALT NOT KILL." Religion is all hypocritical, and if you think about it, the only reason it came to be was to answer the questions of ignorant people. Now we can answer most of those questions scientifically. What makes the Judeo-Christian/Islamic religions any more ridiculous than Norse-Pagan mythology?


Thanks, but even though Im an athiest..this isnt a religion bashing thread.

Thanks, but even though Im an athiest..this isnt a religion bashing thread.

The thread relates to religion. I'm simply giving my opinion.

Also, athiesm is just as closed-minded as religion. You can't deny that there is the possibility of a god, or gods.

Sorry BWS duh, its late I forgot the *these.
I think that these men who claim to serve Islam should be judged under Islamic law.
Even in a genuine Jihad it is still competely unacceptable for a Muslim to kill a prisoner, to set traps that kill children, to deliberately target civilians, so by the law that they claim, let them be judged.

Thanks, but even though Im an athiest..this isnt a religion bashing thread.
Thank you BWS.

The thread relates to religion. I'm simply giving my opinion.

Also, athiesm is just as closed-minded as religion. You can't deny that there is the possibility of a god, or gods.

I don't believe he wishes his thread to be turned into a religious debate. He has asked a very pointed question. Please stick to the topic. If you wish to have a religious debate, post your own thread. Thank You.

Stephanie
Game Moderator

The thread relates to religion. I'm simply giving my opinion.

Also, athiesm is just as closed-minded as religion. You can't deny that there is the possibility of a god, or gods.


No, your right, I cant, but once again.....this thread IS NOT about that.
There are plenty of other threads like the one you want, take this to one of them.

Thank you BWS.


de nada.

The thread relates to religion. I'm simply giving my opinion.

Also, athiesm is just as closed-minded as religion. You can't deny that there is the possibility of a god, or gods.

Well, I define my atheistic belief as assuming there is no god based on currently known facts and logic. Sure, there could be a god, but rationally I have to lean towards the nonexistance of a deity. It's based on probability, not possibility.

I personally believe in God, who is just, loving and merciful. To tell you how I know and how it fits into this world that seems unfair is probably for another thread. I believe that God looks down on His creations and morns. He commanded us to love each other and choose Him, but we hate our own blood. There are many, of many religions, that draw close to Him with their lips but their hearts are far from him.

As for Islam? I know many noble Islamic people who I admire. It would be wrong to judge an entire religion by a few members. It is wrong to judge any one person before you are exposed to them.

As for specific terrorists? It is wrong to have feelings of hate in your heart. I personally strive not to hate anyone. I might disagreed and not condone their actions, but that doesn't mean I can hate them. Hate only poisons the person who hates. I feel sorrow for those terrorist. I am sad that they use their God-given ability to choose their actions to harm others. I live a life assured that eveyone in the end, including myself, will get a just reward for their actions here on earth, whether they be good or evil.

I pray every day that I may have the wisdom to use my agency in a manner that does not harm those around me. Sometimes I fail because I am not perfect.

It is hate and pride that are destroying us more than any act of terror.

Alright, I apologize. Most forums I post on drift off topic rather quickly.

I'm not a Christian, so I can't technically respond while staying on topic, now can I?

Well, I define my atheistic belief as assuming there is no god based on currently known facts and logic. Sure, there could be a god, but rationally I have to lean towards the nonexistance of a deity. It's based on probability, not possibility.

Sorry, off topic again, but I'm just quickly responding to this.

An atheist is one who denies that there is even the possibility of a god or gods. Therefore, you are an agnostic.

Sorry, off topic again, but I'm just quickly responding to this.

An atheist is one who denies that there is even the possibility of a god or gods. Therefore, you are an agnostic.

Well, I always considered "agnostic" as being unsure or middle of the road. I mean I could very well be god incarnate myself, but that doesn't mean anyone is going to be sitting on the fense on that issue, are they?
I don't believe there is a god, so I'll consider myself atheist, since the likeliness of god (or unicorns, for that matter) actually existing isn't significant enough to concern myself with.

I mean if there's a god, and he wants me to believe in him, he'll float on down and be like "Yo, Bill. Believe in me, k?" and I'd be like "K."
But until then, the skepticism shall continue.

Ok, I am a Christian (and very liberal, but you will see how that works out soon)

I believe that religion is not hypocritical, people are.

My example: Christianity is the following of Jesus in order to become "Christlike" and ascend to heaven. Following me so far? The best way to find out how a Christian should act, is to find out how Jesus acted.
In my observations, Jesus was forgiving, merciful, tolerant, peaceful, humble, gracious, helpful, and he preached sharing and collectivism (I seriously think Jesus was the first communist)

So, with that in mind, what can we say about the two political sides? Do the conservatives, where most Christians are, believe in any of those values? Well...not really. I mean, if they did, they would implement it into their policy right?
The liberal population, on the other hand, seems to take quite fondly to these ideas. So technically, Liberals believe in Christ more than Conservatives do.

What is this connundrum that has been dug up? It is quite simple really. Religion is not at all the cause of terrorism. The hypocrisy of the people who claim to follow the Religion are the cause of the terrorism.

Religion always tries to pursue the betterment of man. No matter what religion you follow (Ok, fine, Satanism is a good exception) the basic idea behind it is the embetterment of the individual and society as a whole. Even if you don't believe in god, you still can't say that religions are detrimental to the earth. It is when people come into the equation that religion goes wrong.

(Ok, fine, Satanism is a good exception)

Out of curiousity, are you familiar with LaVey brand Satanism?

LaVey's "Satanism" is just agnoticism. He uses the name of Satan to state that he is an enemy of the church.

Out of curiousity, are you familiar with LaVey brand Satanism?


No, I get a really creepy vibe every time I check out their websites, so I kind of leave them alone. Thus, I'm not very familiar with LaVey.

No, I get a really creepy vibe every time I check out their websites, so I kind of leave them alone. Thus, I'm not very familiar with LaVey.

Well, they're definately not your stereotypical hollywood/urban legend variety devil worshippers. They're more sorta atheistic hedonists who use the satan archetype as their mascot. I agree with about 80% of their base philosophy, but a lot of it is pretentious crap, imho.

Yeah, except the whole self-indulgence thing. That really miffs me. So it still could be said that they don't work for the betterment of Mankind.

So, Im off to bed...

BUT to swing this thread back on track...

How do you Christians out there hold to Jesus' words of "Love thy enemy", in relation to the 9/11 hijackers?

How do you Christians out there hold to Jesus' words of "Love thy enemy", in relation to the 9/11 hijackers?

The way i see it, if Jesus could love the people who were putting him to death and even the bloke who betrayed him from the inside, then it is not impossible to love the hijackers. but it is really really really hard.

however since the love of jesus is mainly demonstrated in a practical way (God's love to us was SHOWN by him sending his son etc) it is hard to know whether i could actually 'love' the hijackers unless i had the chance to do something nice to them.

i mainly feel sorry for them that they thought that such a heinous, disgusting act would bring them closer to God. I do feel it's important though not to judge them, because, as has been said, how do i know that i couldnt have been drawn into doing the same thing had my situation been different?

How do you Christians out there hold to Jesus' words of "Love thy enemy", in relation to the 9/11 hijackers?

If the hijackers had been caught, the loving thing to do would have been to give them a fair trail without any biases. We would have to forgive them and not have any hate in our heart towards them. While Christ commanded us to forgive everyone (which is mostly for our own benefit), he never commanded that we must forget or place ourselves in a situation which it can happen again. For example an abused woman needs to forgive her abuser and not hate him but she never has to put her self in a situation where she would be abused again (like move back in and say all is forgotten).

Therein lies the one of the most important priciples for our happiness and to be honest it is not an easy thing to do.