NationStates Jolt Archive


A bit political.

Karathel
08-09-2004, 19:00
Now, I live in Holland, and several people in the US I have talked to seem to have the impression that Fascism is extreme left-wing socialism.

How far from the truth
While I realize that the Nazi-party was called the NSDAP, or National Socialistische Deutsche Arbeiters Partei (if I spelled it correctly, my german is not the best), which translates as National-socialist German Worker's Party, the german concept of national socialism in the 30's and 40's, has nothing to do with the political stream of socialism.
If anyone wants a proper explanation, try encarta, or perhaps wikipedia, but that socialism is left-wing, all tend to agree (if not, then you might better not read this at all: you have no concept of politics in that case), but fascism/national socialism is a discriminating, rascistical, conservative, right-wing extremist policitical view.

I would like to focus on the "conservative" part and "right wing". First of all, those two are almost by definition the same.
I realize, often right-winged parties claim to be at least partially progressive, but this is mostly election-talk to steal voters from the other guy. But back to topic.

Fascism was by definition conservative. Let us look at the "national" part of the term national-socialism: a nationalist is a person who considers his own country above others. Not only is this a minor form of discrimination (and not necessary that is negative, though most often it is), but it is also conservative, especially in these modern times, where the international gains importance (do I need mention the UN?), and so forth.

I can go on for quite some time, but for the best explanation, I refer to Encarta (at least the Dutch version that I have at home, but somehow I suspect the majority isn't dutch :P).

I hope you all realize this big difference in ideology: socialism (which can be devided into communists and social-democrats) being left-wing, and fascism being extremely right-winged.

I reported someone who said "socialism leads to the horrors of Nazi-Germany" to the owner of the site, who, falsely, claimed that fascism was in fact a form of socialism, and that I, not he, was wrong.

I was most offended by this, but, of course, unable to reply, due to the set up of this site.

Hence this post. Not that I expect him to read it, but at least that other people might.

If it is written in American history books that fascism is socialist, make sure you don't mix up national-socialism (a thing conservative) with socialism (no explanation needed), and please watch or read something educational.

The internet offers plenty of possibilities, and so does Discovery Channel, or other documentaries about pre-WW II nazi-germany.
Superpower07
08-09-2004, 22:01
Facism does not equal socialism!

Who actually thinks that?
HadesRulesMuch
08-09-2004, 22:03
Of course not. Fascism is an extreme right wing system. Socialism is an extreme left wing system. This is not difficult, so if anyone actually believes that socialism and fascism are even closely related, they are an idgit.
Conceptualists
08-09-2004, 22:05
Of course not. Fascism is an extreme right wing system. Socialism is an extreme left wing system. This is not difficult, so if anyone actually believes that socialism and fascism are even closely related, they are an idgit.
Really?

Never read the 'manifesto' of the Nazi Party before they came into power?
CRACKPIE
08-09-2004, 22:11
Really?

Never read the 'manifesto' of the Nazi Party before they came into power?


I did, and it was still extreme-right wing. Now, If you mean before Hitler turned it into an aniti-semitic, ultra-con movement, they were a little more liberal...
Conceptualists
08-09-2004, 22:11
but fascism/national socialism is a discriminating, rascistical, conservative, right-wing extremist policitical view.

Fascism isn't the same as National Socialism. Fascism isn't inherently discriminating, rascist etc.

Still nasty though.

I would like to focus on the "conservative" part and "right wing". First of all, those two are almost by definition the same.
Almost but not quite ;)

However I wouldn't say that the Nazis were conservative but reactionary.

I hope you all realize this big difference in ideology: socialism (which can be devided into communists and social-democrats) being left-wing, and fascism being extremely right-winged.

Care to tell us what is left and what is right wing?

I reported someone who said "socialism leads to the horrors of Nazi-Germany" to the owner of the site, who, falsely, claimed that fascism was in fact a form of socialism, and that I, not he, was wrong.

Well, it isn't a far cry from Technocracy, which could be seen as Socialism. But personally I see Fascism as perverted Liberalism.

By the way. Socialists can be just as conservative.
Conceptualists
08-09-2004, 22:12
I did, and it was still extreme-right wing. Now, If you mean before Hitler turned it into an aniti-semitic, ultra-con movement, they were a little more liberal...
No, the part where he promised workers classic socialist promises.

I forget what they were, I lost the book they were in a few years back *sigh*
Trotterstan
08-09-2004, 22:15
I wouldnt exactly equate german Fascism with right wing conservatism either though. While the Nazi's supported private ownership of capital goods, their economic model was still dominated at times by central planning. Similarly, their model of social and political organisation was centrally coordinated. Rather than refer to Stalinism as left wing and fascism as right wing, it is more accurate to refer to both as Totalitarian which takes into account the similarities that both systems shared and separates them from other more conventional systems with which they share few aspects.
Keruvalia
08-09-2004, 22:18
Now, I live in Holland, and several people in the US I have talked to seem to have the impression that Fascism is extreme left-wing socialism.

Hmm ... US tourists in Holland? Is pot legal there and were they stoned?

Frankly, I don't know anyone that stupid. Well, not on purpose anyway.
CRACKPIE
08-09-2004, 22:18
Fascism isn't the same as National Socialism. Fascism isn't inherently discriminating, rascist etc.

Still nasty though.


Almost but not quite ;)

However I wouldn't say that the Nazis were conservative but reactionary.



Care to tell us what is left and what is right wing?



Well, it isn't a far cry from Technocracy, which could be seen as Socialism. But personally I see Fascism as perverted Liberalism.

By the way. Socialists can be just as conservative.



how can extreme conservatism be seen as perverted liberalism?? youre gonna have to explain that one
Kellogs Special K
08-09-2004, 22:19
Did a google search http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/25Points.html