NationStates Jolt Archive

Below is an article on Senator Graham's book Intelligence Matters that is very critical of the rush to the Iraqi war.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/9584265.htm

but will any Bush supporters lift their blinders long enough to believe it?

This will fall under thier all encompassing blanket that it is conspiracy and unpatriotic to criticize the sitting president, how dare you, sir-HOW DARE YOU-why, (because 'If you're not with us, you're against us') you are no better than a terrorist by questioning...yadda yadda yadda.

I wonder, will they hold to this if Kerry is elected? I won't speculate.

This will fall under thier all encompassing blanket that it is conspiracy and unpatriotic to criticize the sitting president, how dare you, sir-HOW DARE YOU-why, (because 'If you're not with us, you're against us') you are no better than a terrorist by questioning...yadda yadda yadda.

I wonder, will they hold to this if Kerry is elected? I won't speculate.


I'm liking Senator Graham more and more

I love how Kerry has been saying stuff like 'let the burden fall on us and other countries!' Ok, it's a coalition, but Britain and other countries are pulling out of there faster than you can say "wait". Bush's only falling point was that he has no exit plan. Kerry's exit plan is worse, just pull out.

I love how Kerry has been saying stuff like 'let the burden fall on us and other countries!' Ok, it's a coalition, but Britain and other countries are pulling out of there faster than you can say "wait". Bush's only falling point was that he has no exit plan. Kerry's exit plan is worse, just pull out.

Who told you that was Kerry's plan? Whoever it was is wrong.

Bush's father should have pulled out...

:gundge: lets hope, bad news is emerging for mr. bush.
but i am afraid he will be reelected.

With respect to both Kerry and the lazy fool we call a president. I personally now that Bush has done such a stupid thing in Iraq there's not much we can do. I don't even think Kerry can get us out of this mess. Both ways people who say if your against bush it's "unpatriotic" well really patriotism is what a person believes is best for the country and, what's best for the country is Bush out and Kerry in.

Okay... I hate to quote a bumper-sticker, but as someone likely to be declared.... um.... what was it?

Oh yeah, a 'Non-resident Foreign National' (read: non-American, outside of handy arrest jurisdiction).

Anyways... here you go...

'Clinton Lied, Lewinsky Cried. Bush Lied, Thousands Died.'

Easy enough for me, really.

yea, its always so comforting to think of Kerry as being our next president. If your wondering what can be more worse than Bush as a president... try having two lawyers in the whitehouse.

I love how Kerry has been saying stuff like 'let the burden fall on us and other countries!' Ok, it's a coalition, but Britain and other countries are pulling out of there faster than you can say "wait". Bush's only falling point was that he has no exit plan. Kerry's exit plan is worse, just pull out.

I don't know where you get this idea that Britain is pulling out. We've actually sent MORE troops to cover the gaps left by the Spanish pull-out. We're not going to be leaving Iraq for a long time yet.

I'm a Bush supporter, albeit a British one. The majority of us are not blinded to the intelligence flaws prior to the Iraq War as Gymoor might believe. I personally believe that the whole WMD argument was a waste of time. IMO, the War was to rid Iraq of an evil dictator who tortured and murdered his own people. Making the (stated) primary focus a hunt for WMD was a big mistake.

"Clinton Lied, Lewinsky Cried. Bush Lied, Thousands Died." Very funny. Of course, Clinton didn't do anything bad did he? Like jumping the gun after the Kenyan Embassy bombings and bombing a medicine factory in Sudan? To quote another bumper sticker:

"War is Bad...Unless a Democrat is President" Examples being Kosovo, Bosnia etc.

Kerry would make a really bad President. Everytime I've heard him speak on CNN, or seen him quoted in the newspapers, he's talking about Vietnam, or calling the Republicans 'draft-dodgers'. Allegations that have been proved to be false. Its all he talks about. The entire focus of his election campaign seems to be 4 months of loyal service in a war 35 years ago that he's best known for opposing. He's despised by practically all the Vietnam veterans in America for slandering them to Congress, and he's disliked by a great number of ANG veterans for saying Bush joined the ANG to 'draft-dodge' service in Vietnam. If you believe Kerry, serving 3 years FULL-TIME as a fighter pilot in the ANG defending the US homeland from a possible Soviet attack isn't as patriotic as travelling thousands of miles from home to shoot unarmed civilians in the back.

Bush has done a great deal for America. He has worked to lower the tax burden on ALL American families (not just the rich ones as some might like to think) and to raise the standards in American schools. Bush may have made a mistake with Iraq, but at least he's sticking to his course and is determined to see it through. Unlike the Democrats, who under Clinton pulled out of Somalia after the events of Black Hawk Down in Mogadishu, leaving thousands of innocent Somalis to starve to death. Kerry can't even make up his mind about Iraq. First he vocally opposed it, while voting for it. Then he said he wouldn't have invaded if he had been President. Now he says he would have invaded if he had been President. Make up your mind man!

He can't even remember who was President in Christmas 1968. He claimed that President Nixon sent him in on a covert mission into Cambodia over Christmas 1968. Very heroic, apart from the fact that Johnson was still President and Kerry's own account of his time in 'Nam states he was nowhere near Cambodia. How much more of his war record is 'embellished'?

Bush may not be the best President, but he's a damn sight better than Kerry would be.

Bush can't even string a few words together to make a sensible statement. Al lof his little 'sound bites' are pathetic, cliched bits of rhetoric appealing to the lowest common denominator -- ideological quips straight from Orwell's 1984: "to have peace we need war"; "we must stay the course"; "we will defeat the evil doers in where they lie". Blah Blah Blah. Personally I don't even care if Kerry is even only slightly less of a moron and hate-filled simpleton. No one like Bush deserves to be the so called leader of the free world.

yea, its always so comforting to think of Kerry as being our next president. If your wondering what can be more worse than Bush as a president... try having two lawyers in the whitehouse.
Your joking, right? You do know that that has happened countless times before. Lawyer is the most practiced profession by US Presidents. Except maybe Businessman.

Your joking, right? You do know that that has happened countless times before. Lawyer is the most practiced profession by US Presidents. Except maybe Businessman.

I don't think he's kidding. Just another brainwashed individual, buying into the party line.

at least kerry will create a massive debate and spark real politcial opposition in the USA for a few months

Bush can't even string a few words together to make a sensible statement. Al lof his little 'sound bites' are pathetic, cliched bits of rhetoric appealing to the lowest common denominator -- ideological quips straight from Orwell's 1984: "to have peace we need war"; "we must stay the course"; "we will defeat the evil doers in where they lie". Blah Blah Blah. Personally I don't even care if Kerry is even only slightly less of a moron and hate-filled simpleton. No one like Bush deserves to be the so called leader of the free world.

Why doesn't Bush deserve to be leader of the free world? Because he has trouble with his language? George Bush is the first to admit that he has trouble with his language skills. Professionals in this field call it dyslexia. Are you saying that someone with a recognised disability shouldn't be President of the USA? Or is it because he stands up to terrorists, believes that ordinary Americans should be able to spend their own money without the Government taking huge chunks in taxes and puts America first?

All of Kerry's soundbites centre around Vietnam. "I'm John Kerry, reporting for duty" "I will not be criticised by a President and a Vice-President who weren't in Vietnam". Do you really want someone who seems to spend his entire day having 'Nam flashbacks in charge of the free world? He'd probably spend most of his day cat-crawling around the Oval Office looking for Charlie rather than running the free world.

i like the republican lie that if kerry wins they will pander to lawyers. this comes from lawyers supporting them


well since they are lawyers i assume they know alot of lawyers, so THEY WOULD SUPPORT THEM.

lets ignore the fact the biggest backers of the bush/cheney campaign are big business, lets forget cheney and bush have had their hands in big business forever, lets forget cheney STILL has his hands in big business. lets forget the fact that the republicans ONLY pander to big business.

pandering to lawyers would be a WELCOME change IF it were true. what are they going to do by pandering to lawyers? appoint lawyers to be judges? oh wait... thats already a requirement.

Why doesn't Bush deserve to be leader of the free world? Because he has trouble with his language? George Bush is the first to admit that he has trouble with his language skills. Professionals in this field call it dyslexia. Are you saying that someone with a recognised disability shouldn't be President of the USA? Or is it because he stands up to terrorists, believes that ordinary Americans should be able to spend their own money without the Government taking huge chunks in taxes and puts America first?

All of Kerry's soundbites centre around Vietnam. "I'm John Kerry, reporting for duty" "I will not be criticised by a President and a Vice-President who weren't in Vietnam". Do you really want someone who seems to spend his entire day having 'Nam flashbacks in charge of the free world? He'd probably spend most of his day cat-crawling around the Oval Office looking for Charlie rather than running the free world.

There are many fine and decent men who have flashback thank you very much. I guess you mean some vets don't deserve to be respected because the war was too hard on them?

There are many fine and decent men who have flashback thank you very much. I guess you mean some vets don't deserve to be respected because the war was too hard on them?

I think that he means that Kerry's obsession with Vietnam will result in him being unable to distinguish between the 60's and the present. I am confounded as to why he made his 4 months in Vietnam the centerpiece of his campaign. Afterall, he came home and bad mouthed a lot of men that were still over there. To then turn around and use something as controversial as that as the centerpiece of your campaign is simply astounding. Kerry was astonished that anyone would question him on it but he HAD to know that by doing so he would open himself up to attack. he has been on the defensive ever since. John McCain even advised him not to do so....

yea, its always so comforting to think of Kerry as being our next president. If your wondering what can be more worse than Bush as a president... try having two lawyers in the whitehouse.
Yeah, cos lawyers are worse than oil tycoons, ennit?

Is it really such an absurd idea that the people who make the laws should have a working knowledge of the laws?

I think that he means that Kerry's obsession with Vietnam will result in him being unable to distinguish between the 60's and the present. I am confounded as to why he made his 4 months in Vietnam the centerpiece of his campaign. Afterall, he came home and bad mouthed a lot of men that were still over there. To then turn around and use something as controversial as that as the centerpiece of your campaign is simply astounding. Kerry was astonished that anyone would question him on it but he HAD to know that by doing so he would open himself up to attack. he has been on the defensive ever since. John McCain even advised him not to do so....I'm sorry, are you really so addled as to believe that there exists a man running for high office who can't tell the difference between the 60s and the present day? Or was this another partisan joke?

Really who really cares about U.S.A and idiot leaders? Just keep your damn nose out from Finland and our business, or we give you same welcome greeting we gave to other SuperNation idiots who tried to slave us. SovietUnion could not win us. How about U.S?

Why doesn't Bush deserve to be leader of the free world? Because he has trouble with his language? George Bush is the first to admit that he has trouble with his language skills. Professionals in this field call it dyslexia.
I'm sorry? Are you saying that Bush has Dyslexia? If he has then he has my condolences, but if he hasn't, and for some reason you are using Dyslexia as an 'excuse' and as a 'possible reason' for his poor language skills, then please don't. This is just a friendly request from someone who DOES have Dyslexia, and who would not want this handicap to be treated dismissively in partisan politics.

Anyhow sorry about this, I appear to have missed the point of this topic...

Really who really cares about U.S.A and idiot leaders? Just keep your damn nose out from Finland and our business, or we give you same welcome greeting we gave to other SuperNation idiots who tried to slave us. SovietUnion could not win us. How about U.S?
When did Finland get a raw nerve? Are all eight of you guys pissed? (kidding)

Finland, Finland, Finland, the place where I'd like to be...something about snack lunch in the hall.... I forgot the song.

Anyway, relax. Unless you got a bunch of oil we'll continue to not be able to find you on a map. (take a deep breath, remember who that sentence really pokes fun at)

[QUOTE=Chess Squares]i like the republican lie that if kerry wins they will pander to lawyers. this comes from lawyers supporting them

well since they are lawyers i assume they know alot of lawyers, so THEY WOULD SUPPORT THEM.

That's not the issue. The issue is that John EDWARDS, the potential VP, made over $50 million as a plaintiff lawyer in the South. Those are the guys that collect 30% of any judgment they win, and are responsible for the huge windfall lawsuits that go in in the US. You know, the ones that have resulted in the US having a tort system (the legal system that handles harm done to people) that the rest of the world watches in sick fascination, unable to comprehend how we allow it to go on? The one that is resulting in record judgments against doctors, making it so expensive to do business many are quitting the profession (malpractice suits were a specialty of Edwards'). And all this at a time when the first serious potential piece of legislation designed to curb the abuses is up in front of Congress. This is a real problem.

Regarding the broad topic - this strikes me as more of the same BS. There are so many people in the US who simply hate Bush, and will interpret EVERY action in the worst possible light to try to rip him down. Sort of a typical crybaby response to having lost the election in 2000 (heh, I'll bet they're seeing red since I made that comment - you people need to get a life and move on, I mean really, think about it).

Maybe we need the Saudis cooperation to fight AQ. Maybe there's more to this story than Ghraham's sound bytes are telling us. Maybe there are moles or counter interests in Saudi that are working against the will fo their government. Maybe we wanted to avoid making an issue of this top preserve whatever cooperation we get from the Saudis.

The point is, rather than snipe at every decision being made and cast it in the most unfavorable light, why can't the Democrats rise above petty politics and work with the administration for the good of the country. The Democrats have convinced me they don't give a damn about the security of the country, they simply want to beat Bush. See Zell Miller's speech at the RNC if you want to know what I mean....

There are many fine and decent men who have flashback thank you very much. I guess you mean some vets don't deserve to be respected because the war was too hard on them?

No I don't think that at all. I know someone who has Falklands flashbacks, and I know how terrible the psychological damage can be when someone fights in a war.

Biff Pileon has clarified my point for me, which is that Kerry, for someone who is supposed to be campaigning to take America forward as President, spends far too much time discussing Vietnam when he should be more focussed on current events and what matters to Americans today.

Spoffin: Kerry probably can tell the difference between the 1960s and today, but the way he keeps going on about Vietnam like its a current issue sometimes causes people to have doubts.

Talthia: I have read that apparently Bush DOES suffer from dyslexia. It wouldn't surprise me if he did. My brother suffers from it, and several of my friends do too, so I would not use it dismissively as part of a partisan debate.

Right Thinking People: I totally agree. The more I read about the Democrats this campaign, the more apparent it is that they are more interested in 'Bush-Bashing' than in actual politics. Everytime Bush says or does ANYTHING they jump on the bandwagon and oppose it. At the moment, I wouldn't be surprised if they opposed a bill giving free health-care to the poor and elderly.

That's not the issue. The issue is that John EDWARDS, the potential VP, made over $50 million as a plaintiff lawyer in the South. Those are the guys that collect 30% of any judgment they win, and are responsible for the huge windfall lawsuits that go in in the US. You know, the ones that have resulted in the US having a tort system (the legal system that handles harm done to people) that the rest of the world watches in sick fascination, unable to comprehend how we allow it to go on? The one that is resulting in record judgments against doctors, making it so expensive to do business many are quitting the profession (malpractice suits were a specialty of Edwards'). And all this at a time when the first serious potential piece of legislation designed to curb the abuses is up in front of Congress. This is a real problem.[/quote]
unless you want to pretend the world is prefect and good, there are people making and doing things that knowingly and repeatedly harm people andm ust be rectified through the use of the law system or they will never be rectified. john edwards did several of those cases. oh yes, god forbid we make rules to prevent people from intentionally and repeatedly doing or making thigns they know will harm people in the interest of their own capitalist gain, gotta stop shit like that!

Regarding the broad topic - this strikes me as more of the same BS. There are so many people in the US who simply hate Bush, and will interpret EVERY action in the worst possible light to try to rip him down. Sort of a typical crybaby response to having lost the election in 2000 (heh, I'll bet they're seeing red since I made that comment - you people need to get a life and move on, I mean really, think about it).
there are those things that can only be interpreted as good by the right wing lemmings who are too stupid to think for themselves.


how does it feel to be a lemming?

No I don't think that at all. I know someone who has Falklands flashbacks, and I know how terrible the psychological damage can be when someone fights in a war.

Biff Pileon has clarified my point for me, which is that Kerry, for someone who is supposed to be campaigning to take America forward as President, spends far too much time discussing Vietnam when he should be more focussed on current events and what matters to Americans today.

Spoffin: Kerry probably can tell the difference between the 1960s and today, but the way he keeps going on about Vietnam like its a current issue sometimes causes people to have doubts.

Talthia: I have read that apparently Bush DOES suffer from dyslexia. It wouldn't surprise me if he did. My brother suffers from it, and several of my friends do too, so I would not use it dismissively as part of a partisan debate.

Right Thinking People: I totally agree. The more I read about the Democrats this campaign, the more apparent it is that they are more interested in 'Bush-Bashing' than in actual politics. Everytime Bush says or does ANYTHING they jump on the bandwagon and oppose it. At the moment, I wouldn't be surprised if they opposed a bill giving free health-care to the poor and elderly.


how does it feel to be a lemming?

yea, its always so comforting to think of Kerry as being our next president. If your wondering what can be more worse than Bush as a president... try having two lawyers in the whitehouse.
And how is that worse than having a bunch of fundamentalist born-again Christians at the helm?

yea, its always so comforting to think of Kerry as being our next president. If your wondering what can be more worse than Bush as a president... try having two lawyers in the whitehouse.
Yeah, because those Clinton-Gore years sucked so badly. [/sarcasm]

I'm sorry? Are you saying that Bush has Dyslexia? If he has then he has my condolences, but if he hasn't, and for some reason you are using Dyslexia as an 'excuse' and as a 'possible reason' for his poor language skills, then please don't. This is just a friendly request from someone who DOES have Dyslexia, and who would not want this handicap to be treated dismissively in partisan politics.

Anyhow sorry about this, I appear to have missed the point of this topic...

I thought dyslexia affected reading(maybe math) skills, not speech.

I thought dyslexia affected reading(maybe math) skills, not speech.
I thought it DID affect speech... and, who says a dyslexic can't be a decent leader... uh...never mind, I take that back! Damned Liberals!!

Before I start I am a registered Republican, but this year I am not going to vote for either Bush or Kerry... and don't even think I would consider Nader!

As far as Dubya' goes, his "No Child Left Behind" has been a disaster. Class sizes are up, more children are being left behind now than in the Clinton admin, teachers are getting paid less, and school are in ill repair or simply too small to handle the number of student in them (FL is a PERFECT example). The deficit, HaHA, well for someone that is supposed to be a fiscal conservative, well it appears Dubya' missed those classes... the admin continues to blame it on the economy, when you spend more now in a sour economy that money ain't gonna' come back for a long time, thank you Mr. Bu$h!

Now as far as Kerry, I find it very hard to believe that Kerry even understands the issues plaquing the middle and lower classes. For someone that has always led a privelaged life (yes Bush has too), how can he know the issues bothering me... besides I don't have a gravedigger wife worth a god awful amount of money! During his re-election campaign in '96 vs then popular Gov. Bill Weld, the candidates made a promise not to spend more than $1 million of their own money in the campaign. Well Kerry won that election (by like 2% pts.) and it was discovered about a week after the election that Kerry broke that promise by spending an additional million on the campaign! If his own constituents can't trust him how the heck is the general populace supposed to?

And for all those people who are sour over the '00 election you had 4 years to change the system, and yet have done nothing. You blame the Republicans, but just look at the fact that the Supervisor of Elections in Palm Beach Cnty was a Democrat! Yes a Democrat designed the flawed butterfly ballot, so when ya' start throwing around the blame remember that factoid. Oh, and on a side note she just lost in the FL Primaries on the 31st, so you won't have to put up with her anymore!

Oh and by the way, history has proven that Republicans typically show up to vote... Dems can rant and rave all they want about Bush, but unless they go out and actually vote then Bush will be re-elected!

And for all those people who are sour over the '00 election you had 4 years to change the system, and yet have done nothing. You blame the Republicans, but just look at the fact that the Supervisor of Elections in Palm Beach Cnty was a Democrat! Yes a Democrat designed the flawed butterfly ballot, so when ya' start throwing around the blame remember that factoid. Oh, and on a side note she just lost in the FL Primaries on the 31st, so you won't have to put up with her anymore!
wolves in sheeps clothing are still wolves, you mustve missed the topic a couple weeks back, said person is a corrupt republican, but that of course is fairly redundant

I thought it DID affect speech... and, who says a dyslexic can't be a decent leader... uh...never mind, I take that back! Damned Liberals!!


I was asking a question more than making a statement, I just forgot to put in the question mark.

As a dyslexic myself and having a long history of the disorder in my family I feel qualified to point out that not being able to write or spell clearly in no way impedes your ability to retain names and facts, express information in an intelligent and erudite fashion or handle complex concepts in interview and debate. Mr Bush clearly has trouble with all of the above but that has nothing to do with his inability to process the written structure of English correctly. I point out the current English home secetary, David Blunkett, is completely blind, yet has no trouble with words. Mr. Bush may well be dyslexic but he also has an extraordinarily limited grasp of his own language and current affairs as we can see from the endless list of appauling verbal errors he has made during his time in office. I surmise from this that he isn't handicapped, he's just not very bright, a worrying state of affairs given the position he holds. Maybe his voters feel an empathy with him?

how does it feel to be a lemming?

Apparently referring to the MYTH that lemmings follow each other off of cliffs?

Apparently referring to the MYTH that lemmings follow each other off of cliffs?
it really doesnt matter if its a myth, it being general "knowledge" is more important to what im saying

I just resent that the US has so much say in Australian politics especially when our stupid butt kissing politicians will follow your war mongering presidents to the grave :sniper: I hear the pain of other countrys that just want to stay at peace too. Today when my country had its embassy bombed I had to wonder if your president would even care after all it was about his war. Although I don't trust either canidate at least I hope that as Kerry has been to war maybe he will fear it as much as I do and get all our troops home. After all few Presidents could be as bad for International politics as Bush who has no concern for human life or he would not Drink drive (and using I was young as an excuse doesn't cut it when you were in your 30's).
How many other evil dictators does your government just ignore? :mad:
last time I was in the US I was asked by an Americian if we spoke and wrote English so I imagine that it would not matter alot to you if Sydney was bombed since I doubt that many could find it on a map.
I feel disempowed when I know my leaders are to weak to make their own decissions and although I do not support Saddam I think today most Iraqians wish we had never came.
Killing can never lead to Peace.
Can we(or you) trust people to run a county who have oil interests? :(

how does it feel to be a lemming?

Insulting people who disagree with you without making valid points yourself? You're not John Kerry by any chance are you? If you don't have anything useful to say without insulting people, don't bother saying anything.

Eesh: Many people that have worked closely with Bush have noted that he is quite an intelligent person who simply has difficulty expressing himself. Albert Einstein reportedly suffered the same problem. Bush may not be Albert Einstein, but I believe he is more intelligent that a lot of people give him credit for.

Below is an article on Senator Graham's book Intelligence Matters that is very critical of the rush to the Iraqi war.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/9584265.htm

but will any Bush supporters lift their blinders long enough to believe it?

Bush got MODED :p

I was asking a question more than making a statement, I just forgot to put in the question mark.
But that sill isn't going to stop me from complaining about the damned Liberals...who are at least the lesser of the two evils when compared to the New Conservatives....

Can we(or you) trust people to run a county who have oil interests? :(
Remember, it could always be worse... These morons could be your neighbours...