NationStates Jolt Archive

In memoriam....

Lets try and get this thread to 11,793* posts. One for each civilian that has died as a result of the military intervention in Iraq.





* possibly we should aim for 13,802.

May the souls of those who died be in a better place right now

I can't imagine anything worse then waking up one morning and be dead.....

My heart goes out to everyone- American, Iraqi, and everyone else- who died during this war. May they rest in peace.

Ahem...let's see...Iraqis...here we go.

A large group of Iraqi soldiers are moving down a road when they hear a voice call from behind a sand dune. "One Texas soldier is better than ten Iraqi." The Iraqi commander quickly orders 10 of his best men over the dune whereupon a gun-battle breaks out and continues for a few minutes, then silence.

The voice once again calls out "One Texas soldier is better than one hundred Iraqi ". Furious, the Iraqi commander sends his next best 100 troops over the dune and instantly a huge gun fight commences. After 10 minutes of battle, again silence.

The Texas soldier's voice calls out again "One Texas soldier is better than one thousand Iraqi ". The enraged Iraqi commander musters 1000 fighters and sends them to the other side of the dune. Rifle fire, machine guns, grenades, rockets and cannon fire ring out as a terrible battle is fought.... Then silence.

Eventually one badly wounded Iraqi fightercrawls back over the dune and with his dying words tells his commander...

"Don't send any more men...... its a trap. There's two of them".

I can't imagine anything worse then waking up one morning and be dead.....

You don't wake up when you're dead. And I can imagine far worse things than death. Death is often a kindness compared to torture. It's the relatives of the dead I feel sorry for, not the dead themselves.

lilaha va inna illaha raziun

May God bless every one of their souls, and I pray that their families are reunited in Heaven.

god bless them

May God bless every one of their souls, and I pray that their families are reunited in Heaven.

Amen.

lilaha va inna illaha raziun

Huh? :confused:

I kind of doubt that many have been killed by American but how many would have been tortured and gassed by Saddam if we wouldn't have done it.

I kind of doubt that many have been killed by American but how many would have been tortured and gassed by Saddam if we wouldn't have done it.

As far as the gassing goes--that was hardly a weekly returning event. Probably zero casualties by means of gassing.

Don't know about the torture, that did take place on a daily basis as I understand it, but it is is doubtful it would have resulted in the same number of casualties as the war has.

"We have come from God and unto him we shall return"

http://www.iraqbodycount.com/forum/

As far as the gassing goes--that was hardly a weekly returning event. Probably zero casualties by means of gassing.

Don't know about the torture, that did take place on a daily basis as I understand it, but it is is doubtful it would have resulted in the same number of casualties as the war has.

"Let the dead bury the dead."- Some guy named Jesus

+1

"Let the dead bury the dead."- Some guy named Jesus

I can't for the life of me think of what is meant by that. :(

How can the dead bury the dead? :confused:

I can't for the life of me think of what is meant by that. :(

How can the dead bury the dead? :confused:

My interpretation of it given the context of the quote is this:

The dead are dead, and it's a bit late to worry about them. Focus on the living and let God take care of the rest.

Ahem...let's see...Iraqis...here we go.

A large group of Iraqi soldiers are moving down a road when they hear a voice call from behind a sand dune. "One Texas soldier is better than ten Iraqi." The Iraqi commander quickly orders 10 of his best men over the dune whereupon a gun-battle breaks out and continues for a few minutes, then silence.

The voice once again calls out "One Texas soldier is better than one hundred Iraqi ". Furious, the Iraqi commander sends his next best 100 troops over the dune and instantly a huge gun fight commences. After 10 minutes of battle, again silence.

The Texas soldier's voice calls out again "One Texas soldier is better than one thousand Iraqi ". The enraged Iraqi commander musters 1000 fighters and sends them to the other side of the dune. Rifle fire, machine guns, grenades, rockets and cannon fire ring out as a terrible battle is fought.... Then silence.

Eventually one badly wounded Iraqi fightercrawls back over the dune and with his dying words tells his commander...

"Don't send any more men...... its a trap. There's two of them".



Haha, very funny :D

My interpretation of it given the context of the quote is this:

The dead are dead, and it's a bit late to worry about them. Focus on the living and let God take care of the rest.

Now that I understand. :)

Why are you praying for the dirty, evil, and backwards Iraqis when our pure and just soldiers are dying in Iraq.

You should be ashamed of yourselves

Why are you praying for the dirty, evil, and backwards Iraqis when our pure and just soldiers are dying in Iraq.

You should be ashamed of yourselves

I thought one of the whole points of the operation was to liberate those "dirty, evil and backwards" civilian Iraqis, no?

Why are you praying for the dirty, evil, and backwards Iraqis.

You are not seriously suggesting that somehow all Iraqi are "dirty, evil and backwards", right? I take it that was just a brainfart, or maybe you were being ultra-sarcastic?

Their deaths have shown us how fragile peace is.

You are not seriously suggesting that somehow all Iraqi are "dirty, evil and backwards", right? I take it that was just a brainfart, or maybe you were being ultra-sarcastic?

Not just Iraqis, but ALL Muslims are backwards.

So blind to the ways of the world

Not just Iraqis, but ALL Muslims are backwards.

So blind to the ways of the world

A good thing then that we have you to set them straight... :rolleyes:

So, pray tell, how did you conclude that all Muslims are backwards? Facts if you please. :)

And what "ways of the world" are you exactly referring to?

Phhh...everyone that doesn't worship the one true Christian God is backwards and blind to the ways of the world.

Phhh...everyone that doesn't worship the one true Christian God is backwards and blind to the ways of the world.
:headbang:

Despite the fact that Christianity is one of the youngest religions, despite that there are quite a few contradictions in the Bible, despite the fact that Chrisitanity is on the decline and is losing aherents fast, despite the fact that "backward" Muslims are the fastest growing religion, despite the fact you have no true evidence against them, you are obliged to your views.

Phhh...everyone that doesn't worship the one true Christian God is backwards and blind to the ways of the world.

Same God, different ways of worship.

Phhh...everyone that doesn't worship the one true Christian God is backwards and blind to the ways of the world.

So true... ;)

Thanks for the laughs. :) One thing that fundamentalists are always good for, 'till they reach for the TNT that is.

Phhh...everyone that doesn't worship the one true Christian God is backwards and blind to the ways of the world.
you are such a sweet boy to troll in the cause of getting this thread up to 11.793

Allah is not the true God, it is Satan trying to trick people into believing in him. They are ALL false Gods trying to trick people.

Allah is not the true God, it is Satan trying to trick people into believing in him. They are ALL false Gods trying to trick people.

People like Abraham? People like Moses? People like Jesus?

you are such a sweet boy to troll in the cause of getting this thread up to 11.793


Just doing my part.

Hey I can do it again

BLACK PEOPLE SUCK!!

People like Abraham? People like Moses? People like Jesus?

These were prophets of the true God, not false, mislead ones like Muhammed and Buddha.

Allah is not the true God, it is Satan trying to trick people into believing in him. They are ALL false Gods trying to trick people.
If you were to ask me, the Abrahamic religions are all the makings of a few philosphers to control mass amounts of people. "God" is an abstract being that created existence. He spawned no pronegy, gave no prophets, rained no judgment. If anything he is rather apathetic to the affairs of humans, his name is used as a method of control over people via religion.

Did God create us after we created him?

Just doing my part.

Hey I can do it again

BLACK PEOPLE SUCK!!
That is it. *presses the IGNORE button on his viewscreen*

He is nothing but a troll, and he never existed. He has now been "vaporized."

Just doing my part.

Hey I can do it again

BLACK PEOPLE SUCK!!
hahahahahahah
*smack*

If you were to ask me, the Abrahamic religions are all the makings of a few philosphers to control mass amounts of people. "God" is an abstract being that created existence. He spawned no pronegy, gave no prophets, rained no judgment. If anything he is rather apathetic to the affairs of humans, his name is used as a method of control over people via religion.

Did God create us after we created him?

BLASPHEMER!!

How dare you speak such wicked words. God will truely strike you down for this, Satan worshipper.

These were prophets of the true God, not false, mislead ones like Muhammed and Buddha.

So, you admit that Jesus was not part of the divine trinity, but instead just a prophet? Are you a Christian heretic or a Muslim?

You do of course know, since you are just trolling, that they are all also prophets in Islam?

That is it. *presses the IGNORE button on his viewscreen*

He is nothing but a troll, and he never existed. He has now been "vaporized."

I've been here longer then you buddy, loosen up.

Spam rules still apply.


http://www.satanstephen.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DrChaotica.jpg (http://www.satanstephen.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/taunt1.mp3)
Myrth
Ruler of the Cosmos
Forum Moderator

I've been here longer then you buddy, loosen up.
That really is a trivial matter to me. Unless you are being seriously sarcastic, you are only sparking uneeded negative emotions. State your intent now, and I can "loosen up."

That really is a trivial matter to me. Unless you are being seriously sarcastic, you are only sparking uneeded negative emotions. State your intent now, and I can "loosen up."
He already said he was being sarcastic.

He already said he was being sarcastic.
Oh, then I am mistaken. Sorry for the confusion, you had just struck a nerve, thats all. We're cool, mmkay?

*presses the ever so unused UNIGNORE button*

That really is a trivial matter to me. Unless you are being seriously sarcastic, you are only sparking uneeded negative emotions. State your intent now, and I can "loosen up."

I'm always sarcastic. But does some Christian asshole online really piss you off that much?

We are commemorating the dead by posting random comments and or spamming? That doesn't make much sense.

We are commemorating the dead by posting random comments and or spamming? That doesn't make much sense.


Go build churches in their honor.

Go build churches in their honor.
A) That's against my principles.
B) He is saying we should do this for the Iraqi civilians, most of which are probably Muslim, so it would be a mosque.

I wouldn't have a problem with this thread, if it wasn't telling us to hit a certain number of posts to mourn that dead.

I dedicate this post to those who died not because of religion. Not because of politics. Not because of oil. But because of cruel fate, and were caught in the middle. Those who had no say in their ending fate, and were killed purposely or not. This is for them.

I dedicate this post to those who died not because of religion. Not because of politics. Not because of oil. But because of cruel fate, and were caught in the middle. Those who had no say in their ending fate, and were killed purposely or not. This is for them.

Yeah, I agree. I believe most of the people who died for one of the reasons you stated were caught in the middle.. and conversely most of the people caught in the middle died directly because of one of those reasons.

Sorry. I really need to pull my head out my a** don't I?

I wouldn't have a problem with this thread, if it wasn't telling us to hit a certain number of posts to mourn that dead.

This thread was started in reaction to a "1,000 posts for 1,000 dead" thread that seemed to only consider the deaths of US military service people as worthy of noting. I just wanted to point out a number in contrast to that 1,000 deaths. It seemed to me that the focus in that other thread was somewhat skewed.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=355418

I was not seriously advocating a spam fest to reach the 11,000+ mark: replicating the form of the other thread's initial post just seemed to make sense as a way of pointing out what a difficult to grasp number it was in this context.

That's all.

Ah, okay. But I do agree, we mourn the death of 1 000 soldiers who went into the service knowing there was a chance they would die. Yet we don't mourn the 11 000 innocent Iraqi civilians. But as Stalin said, "One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic."

I hope the surviving Iraqis wind up in better shape as a result of all this. I have my doubts that it will happen.

I hope the surviving Iraqis wind up in better shape as a result of all this. I have my doubts that it will happen.
They deserve a break' they didn't ask for this.

I'm always sarcastic. But does some Christian asshole online really piss you off that much?
His name is Jack Chick. He's a little crazy.

This post is dedicated to the Iraqi civilians, American soldiers, civilian contractors, those killed by the terrorism of al-Sadr and others in Iraq, and the forgotten dead of wars everywhere (including 5 million Vietnamese, Cambodian, Laoan, etc. in the Vietnam War, the thousands in Central America in the 1980s, and all others). May they rest according to their traditions and customs.

For all who died in all wars since man has been, I say, "jolly good show wasn't it?"

Allah is not the true God, it is Satan trying to trick people into believing in him. They are ALL false Gods trying to trick people.

As long as you can admit there is more than one god, then all is right with the world. :D

Why are you praying for the dirty, evil, and backwards Iraqis when our pure and just soldiers are dying in Iraq.

You should be ashamed of yourselves
Not just Iraqis, but ALL Muslims are backwards.

So blind to the ways of the world
Phhh...everyone that doesn't worship the one true Christian God is backwards and blind to the ways of the world.
Just doing my part.

Hey I can do it again

BLACK PEOPLE SUCK!!
BLASPHEMER!!

How dare you speak such wicked words. God will truely strike you down for this, Satan worshipper.
Johnistan: Official Warning - Trolling and spamming.

You already have a prior standing warning for flaming. If this keeps up, you will be forumbanned.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

This post is for all the innocents who died in a war which they don't understand. I can't name them all, but they are all missed.

This post is for the mistaken innocents tortured at the Iraqi prisons.

sympathy

My heart goes to the people that suffered.

may aswell just give our respects to all the dead then...

Twin Towers, Iraq, the school in Russia... death is all around us and we get reminded every day.. that eventually.. it catches up.

life is short.. but it does have an ending.

:(

sit down and bargain
all you grizzled old foxes
we'll wall you up in a splendid palace
with food, wine, good beds and a good fire
provided that you discuss, negotiate
for our and your childrens lives
may all the wisdom of the universe
converge to bless your minds
and guide you in the maze
but outside in the cold we will be waiting for you
the army of those who died in vain
we of the marine, of montecassino
treblinka, dresden and hiroshima
and with us will be
the leprous and the people with trachoma
the disappeared ones of buenos aires
dead cambodians and dying ethiopians
the prague negotiators
the bled dry of calcutta
the inoccents slaughtered in bologna
heaven help you if you come out disagreeing
you'll be clutched tight in our embrace
we are invincible because we are the conquered
invulnerable because already dead
we laugh at your missiles
sit down and bargain
until your tongues are dry
if the havoc and the shame continue
we'll drown you in our putrefaction

primo levi, 1985

"We have come from God and unto him we shall return"Who the heck is "we" ?

And do the US really want to re-elect a person for whose personal satisfaction so many lives were lost? And shouldn't those 50million+ people who voted for him last time be sued for conjoint murder?
US-Americans and Brits please do not now pretend to have pity on the dead civilians of Iraq or their families. They were dying because you wanted it that way. What you try to orchestrate with this thread is hypocrisy.

I kind of doubt that many have been killed by American .

:rolleyes: thousands, during: batlle, bombing of civilians, (specially wedding parties aso.,) just come out the cave and watch the world :rolleyes:

+1. Nothing else from me.

:sniper: [/sarcasm]

[cut song, because although nice it's too long]
primo levi, 1985

Heh, finally someone else knows who Primo Levi is.

Anyway, the many Iraqis who died from absurdity need to at least be remembered...

A post for a life.

US-Americans and Brits please do not now pretend to have pity on the dead civilians of Iraq or their families. They were dying because you wanted it that way. What you try to orchestrate with this thread is hypocrisy.
I didn't support Bush before, I never supported the War in Iraq, and I did not want it that way. I'm not part of your statistic, not all of us voted for Bush/Blair or supported the war.

Wahoo! Sp@m with a name. I hereby declare this post, posted.

Cheers to the men and women that defend freedom with their very lives.
Not so many cheers to the... well I'd rather not get my blood broiling this early in the morning.

In memoriam....

Lets try and get this thread to 11,793* posts. One for each civilian that has died as a result of the military intervention in Iraq.





* possibly we should aim for 13,802.


Last I heard the the number of civilian Iraqi casualties was somewhere in the vicinity of 30,000 to 40,000.

I feel pity for all the Iraqi civilians in Najaf and Baghdad whether they got killed or not. Same way I feel pity for all in Beslan whether they were killed or not.
It must be incredibly difficult to rebuild your life after what they went through (and are still going through) And somehow I doubt the Americans or British will be much help in that department!

A sticking plaster on cancer. +1.

Newspapers are saying only about 1,000 U.S. soldiers are dead due to the war with Iraq, while tens of thousands of Iraqi's are dead. I smell Vietnam all over again. Either way, if one person died from this farce instigated by our soon-to-be-ex president, it is wrong.

Never forget.

Newspapers are saying only about 1,000 U.S. soldiers are dead due to the war with Iraq, while tens of thousands of Iraqi's are dead. I smell Vietnam all over again. Either way, if one person died from this farce instigated by our soon-to-be-ex president, it is wrong.
I agree with you.

While a natural death can be a beautiful, or even painful thing, it's still the way people were meant to die (that or horribly mauled by animals ;) or defending themselves from any form of attack); they weren't meant to die at the hands of an angry resident who doesn't want the invader there. Yes, that's what the "Coalition of the Willing" are...invaders.

By sending these men and women to Iraq, Bush has guaranteed their death. But, how, when? One death was one too many.

Then, what of the Iraqis, are they really any better off? They are still dying in gruesome ways; they have no more freedoms than they did before. They still have a ruler put in place by the American government...

"For great Justice!"

Just a personal thought:What the Crap are humans doing killing each other?

I have no feelings either way, i just joined in to be cool

War gives us needless death, and that death can easily be turned into a stat. Lets try not to forget that there were mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, aunts, uncles, teachers, preists, doctors and, well, people that were uselessly wasted. Even the, what we consider, lowly work of sidewalk cleaner had a life and may have meant the world to someone. War for all the "good" it says it does still takes the innocent. Parents look down at your five year olds and thank your choosen deity they are still here.

In memory for all those touched by war..
Pythan

Stop whining. Have you pressured your goverment not to start this needless war?

Stop whining. Have you pressured your goverment not to start this needless war?
Yes. I have attempted to do so, and have written several letters to Oklahoman congressmen and Bush administration officials.

lets get 11793 posts for 11793 sinceless deads

Does US-American law allow to shoot someone who is about to kill somebody?

Does US-American law allow to shoot someone who is about to kill somebody?
Yes. But most of the Iraqi civilians had no weapons or ways of harming our soldiers, or the intent of doing such.

Which doesn't seem to stop the deaths...

Does US-American law allow to shoot someone who is about to kill somebody?Yes. But most of the Iraqi civilians had no weapons or ways of harming our soldiers, or the intent of doing such.My question was not heading that way. I was wondering if it was legitimate to shoot Bush because he is responsible for so much killing in the name of oil and god.

My question was not heading that way. I was wondering if it was legitimate to shoot Bush because he is responsible for so much killing in the name of oil and god.
Unfortunately, it's not only Bush. There are a bunch of nasty PNAC guyz who have some ways to control the government.

So I'm not reading 11 pages of this, but has anybody mentioned the obvious fact that most of the deaths in Iraq over the last 18 months have been caused by....Iraqis. Every other day in the news you see "Suicide bomber kills 60 waiting in line for work with new Iraqi police." Try putting some of the blame where the blame lies. The US military and coalition forces go out of their way to avoid civilian casualties, holy sites....to the extent that it costs American and coalition lives...

And now somebody is gonna say "Well they wouldn't be doing that if America wasn't there." Well, ok, but others would have died in their place. Saddam was a butcher. Millions have died in the 80s and 90s because of him. So why don't we see if we can post to the number of innocents who died at Saddam's hands....

So I'm not reading 11 pages of this, but has anybody mentioned the obvious fact that most of the deaths in Iraq over the last 18 months have been caused by....Iraqis. Every other day in the news you see "Suicide bomber kills 60 waiting in line for work with new Iraqi police." Try putting some of the blame where the blame lies. The US military and coalition forces go out of their way to avoid civilian casualties, holy sites....to the extent that it costs American and coalition lives...

And now somebody is gonna say "Well they wouldn't be doing that if America wasn't there." Well, ok, but others would have died in their place. Saddam was a butcher. Millions have died in the 80s and 90s because of him. So why don't we see if we can post to the number of innocents who died at Saddam's hands....
I think it is about the innocent victims, it is not about blaming.

I think it is about the innocent victims, it is not about blaming.

That would be nice, but I've been around here long enough to realize it always comes back to blame. You already have people saying "Would it be ok to shoot Bush because he caused....yada yada yada."

So I'm not reading 11 pages of this, but has anybody mentioned the obvious fact that most of the deaths in Iraq over the last 18 months have been caused by....Iraqis. Every other day in the news you see "Suicide bomber kills 60 waiting in line for work with new Iraqi police." Try putting some of the blame where the blame lies. The US military and coalition forces go out of their way to avoid civilian casualties, holy sites....to the extent that it costs American and coalition lives...

And now somebody is gonna say "Well they wouldn't be doing that if America wasn't there." Well, ok, but others would have died in their place. Saddam was a butcher. Millions have died in the 80s and 90s because of him. So why don't we see if we can post to the number of innocents who died at Saddam's hands....The US have opened the way for islamists to enter Iraq and propagate their dirty policies. There was NO Saddam-Osama connection.
Did it ever occur to you that there were no suicide attacks in Iraq prior to the US invasion? The simple reason for this is that there was no-one in Iraq who would have been so stupid as to die for SH.
The blame lies on the US who just fail to give security to the countries they occupy.

Did it ever occur to you that there were no suicide attacks in Iraq prior to the US invasion? The simple reason for this is that there was no-one in Iraq who would have been so stupid as to die for SH. The US have opened the way for islamists to enter Iraq and propagate their dirty policies. There was NO Saddam-Osama connection.

Uh huh, instead you had Saddam who killed far more of his own people than the insurgents ever will manage to. let's not pretend Iraq was a nice, peaceful country before the coalition troops arrived.

The blame lies on the US who just fail to give security to the countries they occupy.

Oh give me a break. The problem is the insurgency manipulates the fact that the US army tries to be sensative of Iraqi civilians and holy sites.

Uh huh, instead you had Saddam who killed far more of his own people than the insurgents ever will manage to. let's not pretend Iraq was a nice, peaceful country before the coalition troops arrived.Saddam was in any case not the dangerous man he was 15 years ago. The UN weapons inspection teams have actually done a good job. And there was no immediate need to proceed in war against Iraq in the way Bush did.

Oh give me a break. The problem is the insurgency manipulates the fact that the US army tries to be sensative of Iraqi civilians and holy sites.So what? It is still the US troops who do not prevent islamist terrorists from entering Iraq. And they have not been there before the war.

Along with other human rights organizations, The Documental Centre for Human Rights in Iraq has compiled documentation on over 600,000 civilian executions in Iraq. Human Rights Watch reports that in one operation alone, the Anfal, Saddam killed 100,000 Kurdish Iraqis. Another 500,000 are estimated to have died in Saddam's needless war with Iran. Coldly taken as a daily average for the 24 years of Saddam's reign, these numbers give us a horrifying picture of between 70 and 125 civilian deaths per day for every one of Saddam's 8,000-odd days in power.

Saddam was in any case not the dangerous man he was 15 years ago. The UN weapons inspection teams have actually done a good job. And there was no immediate need to proceed in war against Iraq in the way Bush did.

No, instead we should have waited awhile, let the situation fester. Maybe his super-nice sons would have been better leaders when he died. Maybe he suddenly would have given up his aspirations for WMD. Maybe he would have stopped persecuting the Kurds and the Shites, stopped attack British and American aircraft in the no-fly zones. Hell, we should let the whole Middle East situation fester....status quo, you know....that situations never going to come to a boiling point. :rolleyes:

So what? It is still the US troops who do not prevent islamist terrorists from entering Iraq. And they have not been there before the war.

Um, very few of the insurgents are foreign fighters, most are Sunnis and Shites in a power struggle in post-Saddam Iraq. Guess what? They were there all the time.

in war no one is spared.

not even by morals.

everything... life, dignity, peace, love, innocence, even hope - is lost.

post 103!

No, instead we should have waited awhile, let the situation fester. Maybe his super-nice sons would have been better leaders when he died. Maybe he suddenly would have given up his aspirations for WMD. Maybe he would have stopped persecuting the Kurds and the Shites, stopped attack British and American aircraft in the no-fly zones. Hell, we should let the whole Middle East situation fester....status quo, you know....that situations never going to come to a boiling point. :rolleyes:
The fact that he had no WMDs doesn't seem to matter any more, because he had "aspirations" for WMDs. The fact that the war in Iraq had deepened the dislike that the middle east has for america, and has increased the number of Islamic militants and extremists, that doesn't matter either, because we're "waging a war on terror". The fact that we killed people doesn't matter, cos Saddam might have killed people as well (probably not the same people, maybe not even as many, but we'll never know). The fact that you've trampled the Geneva convention to the degree that it'll never be taken seriously again, to be replaced instead by The 2004 Guantanamo Act of Acceptable Torture, that doesn't matter either, cos you're not gonna let your hands be tied by silly UN peaceniks when you could be doing things The American Way. The fact that Iraqi civillians live in no less terror than they did under Saddam, knowing as they do the possiblity that they will be picked up, detained without trial and tortured doesn't matter, because now they have "freedom". And the fact that we've alienated half of our allies and directly threatened four or five other countries doesn't matter, because we now have a real democracy (sic) in the Middle East.

This should be set in bold!
The fact that he had no WMDs doesn't seem to matter any more, because he had "aspirations" for WMDs. The fact that the war in Iraq had deepened the dislike that the middle east has for america, and has increased the number of Islamic militants and extremists, that doesn't matter either, because we're "waging a war on terror". The fact that we killed people doesn't matter, cos Saddam might have killed people as well (probably not the same people, maybe not even as many, but we'll never know). The fact that you've trampled the Geneva convention to the degree that it'll never be taken seriously again, to be replaced instead by The 2004 Guantanamo Act of Acceptable Torture, that doesn't matter either, cos you're not gonna let your hands be tied by silly UN peaceniks when you could be doing things The American Way. The fact that Iraqi civillians live in no less terror than they did under Saddam, knowing as they do the possiblity that they will be picked up, detained without trial and tortured doesn't matter, because now they have "freedom". And the fact that we've alienated half of our allies and directly threatened four or five other countries doesn't matter, because we now have a real democracy (sic) in the Middle East.

My interpretation of it given the context of the quote is this:

The dead are dead, and it's a bit late to worry about them. Focus on the living and let God take care of the rest.

So your saying God is dead?

The fact that he had no WMDs doesn't seem to matter any more, because he had "aspirations" for WMDs.

Saddam did have WMD. Where they went to is one of the big question of this war. But one thing that the majority of captured Iraqis officials have said is that he certainly had aspirations to obtain more of them.

The fact that the war in Iraq had deepened the dislike that the middle east has for america, and has increased the number of Islamic militants and extremists, that doesn't matter either, because we're "waging a war on terror".

The fact that success in Iraq will drastically change the culture of the region that produces Islamic terrorists doesn't matter to you either. Hey way to not look any more long term than 5 minutes from now. That's the way to win a war.

The fact that we killed people doesn't matter, cos Saddam might have killed people as well (probably not the same people, maybe not even as many, but we'll never know).

Of course it matters. Hey you know knows hundreds of thousands of Americans who died in WW2. You know I bet if we hadn't have sent them to Europe and out into the Pacific, they'd probably be alive. So I guess fighting WW2 was a bad idea....that's the logic you are using. If one person dies in a war who wouldn't of other wise, even if it means thousands will live in his place, then the war was wrong. Well, hate to tell you this, but something have a bitter price. That doesn't mean you don't do them. It would be great if the world could be a wonderful peaceful place, but it's not. That doesn't mean you bury you head in the sand.

The fact that Iraqi civillians live in no less terror than they did under Saddam, knowing as they do the possiblity that they will be picked up, detained without trial and tortured doesn't matter, because now they have "freedom".

Hey, because you know it had a real chance of improving under Saddam. So your motto is "Stick to the status quo, it sucks, but hey, change is hard."

And the fact that we've alienated half of our allies and directly threatened four or five other countries doesn't matter, because we now have a real democracy (sic) in the Middle East.

"Half or allies" have been looking to alienate themselves from us since the end of the Cold War. As far as threaten other countries, yeah, you are right. There is alot more work to be done. But you keep on ignoring it.

So your saying God is dead?

No. I'm obviously quite alive. ;)

Along with other human rights organizations, The Documental Centre for Human Rights in Iraq has compiled documentation on over 600,000 civilian executions in Iraq. Human Rights Watch reports that in one operation alone, the Anfal, Saddam killed 100,000 Kurdish Iraqis. Another 500,000 are estimated to have died in Saddam's needless war with Iran. Coldly taken as a daily average for the 24 years of Saddam's reign, these numbers give us a horrifying picture of between 70 and 125 civilian deaths per day for every one of Saddam's 8,000-odd days in power.
This was 13 years ago though.

Saddam did have WMD. Where they went to is one of the big question of this war. But one thing that the majority of captured Iraqis officials have said is that he certainly had aspirations to obtain more of them.No need to comment on that, it's false.

The fact that success in Iraq will drastically change the culture of the region that produces Islamic terrorists doesn't matter to you either. Hey way to not look any more long term than 5 minutes from now. That's the way to win a war.That is stupid. Saddam was fighting islamic extremism in the region. In which way removing Saddam will make islamic extremism decrease?

Of course it matters. Hey you know knows hundreds of thousands of Americans who died in WW2. You know I bet if we hadn't have sent them to Europe and out into the Pacific, they'd probably be alive. So I guess fighting WW2 was a bad idea....that's the logic you are using. If one person dies in a war who wouldn't of other wise, even if it means thousands will live in his place, then the war was wrong. Well, hate to tell you this, but something have a bitter price. That doesn't mean you don't do them. It would be great if the world could be a wonderful peaceful place, but it's not. That doesn't mean you bury you head in the sand.
I hope you aren't saying the germans were right to start this war.
Of course WW2 was wrong. Many people have been killed in this war.

Hey, because you know it had a real chance of improving under Saddam. So your motto is "Stick to the status quo, it sucks, but hey, change is hard."
Change is OK, but it doesn't mean you can do ANY change. It has to change in the direction of peace, not in the direction of chaos.

"Half or allies" have been looking to alienate themselves from us since the end of the Cold War. As far as threaten other countries, yeah, you are right. There is alot more work to be done. But you keep on ignoring it.No need to comment on this.

post #111

Spam rules still apply.


http://www.satanstephen.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DrChaotica.jpg (http://www.satanstephen.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/taunt1.mp3)
Myrth
Ruler of the Cosmos
Forum Moderator

No exceptions to the rules.

Rules are meant to be broken

Sorry, didn't read the whole thread. I was trying to express my feelings about this tradgedy with elegant simplicity.

Spam rules still apply.

Feel free to lock this thread if you want: it has made its point (which was just as a contrast to the 1,000 US service people thread).