NationStates Jolt Archive


is this offensive?

Dakini
06-09-2004, 23:11
i'm a welcome week representative at my school for the faculty of science, and i wanted to paint a blank darwin fisk on my labcoat. it looks like this (if i get the image to show)
http://www.evolvefish.com/fish/media/E-EmptyFish.gif

now, since i'm an official school representative, i can't go about offending people (same reason i didn't put a bad religion logo on my coat)

so would you be offended by that?
Incertonia
06-09-2004, 23:17
I wouldn't be, but then again, I used to have a bumpersticker with a Darwin fish mounting a Jesus fish, so I'm probably not the best person to ask.

In all seriousness, the best person to ask is your boss--personally, I'd tell you to leave it off, and I'd say the same to someone who wanted to wear a Jesus fish. There's just no need in stirring up a controversy over something like that.
The White Hats
06-09-2004, 23:17
I can't see anything remotely offensive about it, but then I also don't know what it means.
Superpower07
06-09-2004, 23:18
so would you be offended by that?

I wouldn't, but play it safe and don't put the Darwin fish on
Homicidal Pacifists
06-09-2004, 23:20
I find it highly offensive. I just plain hate fish.
:mad:
Dakini
06-09-2004, 23:21
I can't see anything remotely offensive about it, but then I also don't know what it means.

it's a take off of the jesus fish, but it has legs, like the classic evolutionary step from water to land... i'm sure you've seen some depiction of a fish with legs climbing out of the water.

oh, and also, i live in canada, not the south of the u.s., we're a little more secular if that changes things any...
Chansu
06-09-2004, 23:21
How could that fish you posted a pic of be offensive? O_o It's a fish!...with legs.
Unfree People
06-09-2004, 23:21
I wouldn't be, but then again, I used to have a bumpersticker with a Darwin fish mounting a Jesus fish, so I'm probably not the best person to ask. That's great! Where did you get it?
Dakini
06-09-2004, 23:23
they have some here...http://www.evolvefish.com/fish/emblems.html#23

the only way i could see it as being offensive is if someone thought it was a mockery of the jesus fish... which i saw someone have on their jumpsuit (it was another faculty)
Dakini
06-09-2004, 23:24
they have some here...http://www.evolvefish.com/fish/emblems.html#23

the only way i could see it as being offensive is if someone thought it was a mockery of the jesus fish... and i saw someone with a jesus fish on their jumpsuit (it was another faculty)
YUor m0m
06-09-2004, 23:27
I dont find it offensive and im a Christian. I know some who woul dbe offended. It's just a symbol of what you believe in. It may hold some belief value (such as a crucifix, a cross, a pentagram, a upside down purple triangle).

What the belief value of the symbol might offend people. But like I said im not offended at all.
The White Hats
06-09-2004, 23:28
it's a take off of the jesus fish, but it has legs, like the classic evolutionary step from water to land...


Then not only is it not offensive, but it should be compulsory. In fact, you should make people swear an oath of allegience to it before they're allowed in your lab.
Likeminded Souls
06-09-2004, 23:31
I prefer the one with a darwin fish eating a christian fish...
Dakini
06-09-2004, 23:31
Then not only is it not offensive, but it should be compulsory. In fact, you should make people swear an oath of allegience to it before they're allowed in your lab.
? i don't conduct labs.. the labs i take don't even require me to wear labcoats, as i'm in physics not bio or chem, we don't get messy. :)
the labcoat in this case is the science representative uniform. most of the other faculties have jumpsuits, but we're special and have labcoats.
Dakini
06-09-2004, 23:31
I prefer the one with a darwin fish eating a christian fish...
but i get the feeling that one's a touch more offensive.
Unfree People
06-09-2004, 23:33
they have some here...http://www.evolvefish.com/fish/emblems.html#23

the only way i could see it as being offensive is if someone thought it was a mockery of the jesus fish... and i saw someone with a jesus fish on their jumpsuit (it was another faculty)
http://www.evolvefish.com/fish/media/E-Procreate.gif
Heehee, kick arse.
Er, no I don't find it at all offensive.
Ceinewydd
06-09-2004, 23:41
I can't see anything remotely offensive about it, but then I also don't know what it means.

The reason why it is intended to be offensive:

The "Jesus Fish" is an early Christian symbol, used to identify themselves to other Christians. Ichthys ( ιχθυς ) is the Greek word for "fish". The symbol may be an acrostic relating the Greek letters ΙΧΘΥΣ to the statement of Christian faith "Ιησους Χριστος Θεου Υιος Σωτερ" (Iesous Christos Theou Uios Soter meaning "Jesus Christ, Son of God, Saviour").

The "Darwin Fish" is a way for non-believers to insult those who proudly identify themselves as Christians, by altering this traditional symbol.
Dakini
06-09-2004, 23:44
oh, please. the christians stole the symbol from the pagans in the first place.

the fish was a symbol for female genitalia, like the action of cupping your hands for prayer. they were used by pagan religions before the christians came along and stole them anyways.

the fish with legs has significance other than changing a christian symbol.
The White Hats
06-09-2004, 23:49
? i don't conduct labs.. the labs i take don't even require me to wear labcoats, as i'm in physics not bio or chem, we don't get messy. :)
the labcoat in this case is the science representative uniform. most of the other faculties have jumpsuits, but we're special and have labcoats.

My mistake ... blame it my ignorance of your culture. Even so, I think my general point about swearing the oath stands
Dakini
06-09-2004, 23:51
My mistake ... blame it my ignorance of your culture. Even so, I think my general point about swearing the oath stands
no, it's ok, i dont' think i explained the bit about the labcoat beign a uniform rather than a utilitarian, lab coat.

they're even black. :D
CSW
06-09-2004, 23:52
no, it's ok, i dont' think i explained the bit about the labcoat beign a uniform rather than a utilitarian, lab coat.

they're even black. :D
Black? I thought they were white so you could see if anything got on them.
Frisbeeteria
06-09-2004, 23:56
i'm a welcome week representative at my school for the faculty of science, and i wanted to paint a blank darwin fisk on my labcoat.
It's not offensive.

It IS unprofessional.

If you're represnting your (fill-in-the-blank-organization), then you have a professional responsibility to represent it without your personal biases on top of it.

It's completely appropriate for you to have a Darwin Fish bumper sticker on your car in the school parking lot. That's your vehicle, and it doesn't represent the school. I'd even say it's reasonable for you to pick up school guests at the airport in your personal vehicle, as long as you don't also have a sign declaring it to be an official (fill-in-the-blank-organization) vehicle.
Dakini
06-09-2004, 23:57
i saw some kid with a jesus fish on his jumpsuit earlier today.

and about half the sci-cos have subtle jabs at engineers on their labcoats.

also, i'm not sure about the amount of professionalism we're supposed to have is. on wednesday, we pretend to be naked under our labcoats and go around and kiss people who line up along the street...
Frisbeeteria
06-09-2004, 23:59
i saw some kid with a jesus fish on his jumpsuit earlier today.
If the other kids all jumped off a cliff, would you follow? [/mom]

They're being unprofessional. You don't need to follow suit.
Dakini
07-09-2004, 00:01
i'm not sure if you get the point of this week, it isn't to be professional.

hmm... maybe i should just ask the welcome week planners for my faculty...
The Force Majeure
07-09-2004, 00:02
they have some here...http://www.evolvefish.com/fish/emblems.html#23

the only way i could see it as being offensive is if someone thought it was a mockery of the jesus fish... and i saw someone with a jesus fish on their jumpsuit (it was another faculty)


I thought that's what it is, a mockery of the christian fish
The Force Majeure
07-09-2004, 00:05
oh, please. the christians stole the symbol from the pagans in the first place.

the fish was a symbol for female genitalia, like the action of cupping your hands for prayer. they were used by pagan religions before the christians came along and stole them anyways.

the fish with legs has significance other than changing a christian symbol.


No, Im pretty sure the other guy is right. Unless the history chan lied to me. When two christians met, each would draw half of the fish in the sand with his/her foot....
Utopio
07-09-2004, 00:20
No, Im pretty sure the other guy is right. Unless the history chan lied to me. When two christians met, each would draw half of the fish in the sand with his/her foot....

...then get munched by lions.
Arenestho
07-09-2004, 00:23
I can't see anything remotely offensive about it, but then I also don't know what it means.
It's a pagan symbol for a woman's reproductive organs. Yes that's right.

So yah if you know people who would be offended by a woman's reproductive organs, you probably shouldn't put it on your lab coat :p
The Force Majeure
07-09-2004, 00:26
...then get munched by lions.

ah man, i shouldnt be laughing at that...but i am...
Dakini
07-09-2004, 00:27
So yah if you know people who would be offended by a woman's reproductive organs, you probably shouldn't put it on your lab coat :p

but the ones with legs is more of a symbol of an evolutionary step than anything.

and few people know it as a symbol for female genitalia.
The Force Majeure
07-09-2004, 00:28
here are the two versions of the origin of the christian fish

from the christians:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/history/features/ask/2001/oct26.html

from the atheists:

http://www.atheists.org/christianity/fish.html
Stephistan
07-09-2004, 00:31
i'm a welcome week representative at my school for the faculty of science, and i wanted to paint a blank darwin fisk on my labcoat. it looks like this (if i get the image to show)
http://www.evolvefish.com/fish/media/E-EmptyFish.gif

now, since i'm an official school representative, i can't go about offending people (same reason i didn't put a bad religion logo on my coat)

so would you be offended by that?

Since I note you live in Canada , wear it, no one here will get offended by it. You should know that .. good luck by the way :)
Dakini
07-09-2004, 00:34
there are some over the top christians here too. i found a flier for www.answersingenesis.com a while ago on a lamp post, with at least one out of context, incorrect quote on it about evolution being a fairy tale for adults. so i'm not so sure anymore...
Stephistan
07-09-2004, 00:37
there are some over the top christians here too. i found a flier for www.answersingenesis.com a while ago on a lamp post, with at least one out of context, incorrect quote on it about evolution being a fairy tale for adults. so i'm not so sure anymore...

Yeah sure, there are some every where, but still, I seriously doubt that most would even notice it or know what it is. Besides, it's a science theme, not a religious one. I say wear it!
Likeminded Souls
07-09-2004, 00:39
Glad to see you are still around, Steph. She is, of course, right. There may be one or two who get offended up here in the Great White North, but not many, and most who do would be laughed at.
Dakini
07-09-2004, 00:43
yeah. i don't know how many non-science students will notice my coat anyways. and i don't know any overly christian science students...
Kaziganthis
07-09-2004, 00:44
Some could find it funny, some could find it offensive. You might avoid a few angry letters if you skip the fishie. It's an old joke, anyway, so I don't think it' worth the risk of a few angry letters.
Cannot think of a name
07-09-2004, 00:45
here are the two versions of the origin of the christian fish

from the christians:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/history/features/ask/2001/oct26.html

from the atheists:

http://www.atheists.org/christianity/fish.html
As an athiest:
Both stories agree, though the athiest one is smugger, more detailed and longer. In the end, it's this I have to agree with from the christian sight (again, as an athiest):
Critics of the fish symbol either decry it as tacky tokenism or point out that the fish still carries baggage from the days when pagans used it to represent fertility or, more specifically, the female reproductive organs. Though I agree that ichthys symbols in phone-book ads seem to commercialize faith, I don't find the pagan argument compelling. No symbol means the same thing to all people at all times. That early Christians succeeded in transforming an already powerful symbol proves their interpretive creativity, not their ignorance or a tendency to syncretism.
That christianity appropriated symbols is what's called a Rueben. That's a piece of knowledge that is more or less well known but is still treated by people as 'special' or little known (the term comes from Pee Wee Herman's real name).

EDIT:I should answer the real question. In the intrest of consistancy I would have to say don't use it. I would be offended if you used a cross or other religous symbol, so I have to be consistant....
The Force Majeure
07-09-2004, 00:46
Yeah sure, there are some every where, but still, I seriously doubt that most would even notice it or know what it is. Besides, it's a science theme, not a religious one. I say wear it!

Sure, all it says is, "I laugh at all your foolish beliefs."
The Force Majeure
07-09-2004, 00:48
As an athiest:
Both stories agree, though the athiest one is smugger, more detailed and longer. In the end, it's this I have to agree with from the christian sight (again, as an athiest):




Yeah, atheists do tend to come off as overly smug. Probably why they are so good at getting a rise out of christians.
Cannot think of a name
07-09-2004, 00:51
Yeah, atheists do tend to come off as overly smug. Probably why they are so good at getting a rise out of christians.
Now, don't go thinking that I believe that athiests have cornered the market on smugness. Nothing makes someone more smug than thinking some skybeing is going to hook them up with streets of gold....
The Force Majeure
07-09-2004, 00:56
Now, don't go thinking that I believe that athiests have cornered the market on smugness. Nothing makes someone more smug than thinking some skybeing is going to hook them up with streets of gold....


Well, on one side you have people arguing on the side of scientific research....and the other, people talking about how great their imaginary friend is. Whom do you think will act more smug?
Unfree People
07-09-2004, 01:03
I have an imaginary friend, his name is Bob. He helps me with my homework.

My friends run around with the little fish with the greek in them on their keychains etc. It irritates me. But I think they'd never speak to me again if I said "hey, you know you just ripped that off a pegan symbol for women's reproductive organs".
The Force Majeure
07-09-2004, 01:06
I have an imaginary friend, his name is Bob. He helps me with my homework.



Yeah? Does he do thesis work as well? I really just need someone to make me stop posting on this forum and actually get something done.
Kraknokistan
07-09-2004, 01:24
i'm a welcome week representative at my school for the faculty of science, and i wanted to paint a blank darwin fisk on my labcoat. it looks like this (if i get the image to show)
http://www.evolvefish.com/fish/media/E-EmptyFish.gif

now, since i'm an official school representative, i can't go about offending people (same reason i didn't put a bad religion logo on my coat)

so would you be offended by that?
It doesn't offend me, but since you're a representative of the school I'd advise you not to wear it, because whenever there's a situation like this the one person in Canada who would be offended always attends. Wearing it does more potential harm than good.
Ondongia
07-09-2004, 11:17
I'm a christian and if you let me were my icthus (jesus fish) I'll let you were your darwin fish. fair enough??
Legless Pirates
07-09-2004, 11:24
? i don't conduct labs.. the labs i take don't even require me to wear labcoats, as i'm in physics not bio or chem, we don't get messy. :)
the labcoat in this case is the science representative uniform. most of the other faculties have jumpsuits, but we're special and have labcoats.
do they have darwin fishes on their jumpsuits?

Anyway. I think anyone devoted to RESEARCH should NOT wear the jesus fish, but the darwin fish.
Ceinewydd
07-09-2004, 14:59
IMPORTANT: I am not promoting or condemning any beliefs, only asking a question!!

Why are so many in this, and other threads, filled with so much unresolved hatred? Specifically, I referring to extraordinarily strong negative feelings toward the belief in God, or any other Higher Being.

I posted what was intended to be an objective answer, that is, that the "Darwin Fish" is designed to be sarcastic and offensive to Christians, which has come into vogue within the last decade. I simply offered a possible historic background for the "Jesus Fish," a symbol that has been used by Christians for possibly 2000 years.

The response has been, as I have seen in other threads, a torrent of expressions of contempt for anything/anyone espousing a belief in Judaic/Christian traditions.

Again, I'm not promoting Christianity, nor condemning agnosticism/atheism, I simply want to know why so many are so angry.
Kryozerkia
07-09-2004, 15:26
If someone if offended by it needs a life.
Skwerrel
07-09-2004, 15:27
I am into science and I would consider myself "overly Christian" too...
As for the Darwin fish, maybe more people in the Great White North should be more offended, it would probably do you some good :D

The hatred is another matter. I think Christians are good peeps (for the most part) and athiests are too (for the most part). When we died we will see who is right and I am content to leave it at that.