NationStates Jolt Archive

How many people here can honestly debate the difference between the two party schills? And how many are honest enough to admit that they have not given both a fair shake?

Only the book/movie counts, not the commercials/reviews.

whats unfit about/who is it by?

whats unfit about/who is it by?

It's lies about Kerry from the same people who brought you the swift boat ads. It's written by John E. O'Neill, Jerome R. Corsi. It was a waste of good money if you ask me, at least F9/11 was entertaining. Unfit for Command wasn't even very compelling, let alone entertaining.

I only read part of "Unfit for Command" but it seemed really boring. 9/11, on the other hand kept my interest the whole time, even when the power went out in the theatre and the screen went blank.

I only read part of "Unfit for Command" but it seemed really boring. 9/11, on the other hand kept my interest the whole time, even when the power went out in the theatre and the screen went blank.
Part of the show

Its an biased poll, I'm not going to vote..

I would rather know an opinion on what is happening NOW instead of THEN.

Unfit for Command is a sad ploy to make money. So is F9/11 a bit but at least it's relevant and has SOME truth.

Notice how the Kerry-supporters think Unfit is a bunch of lies, while us Bush supporters think 9-11 is a bunch of (insert long chain of insults).


Anyways, the point I am trying to get across is that most of us here in NS are galvanized...thinking either "Bush is a total nutcase who isn't fit to run a Mc Donalds" or "Kerry is a lying, flip-floppin waffle-case 'Unfit for Command'"

Either way, all this post is doin is getting us riled up.....no matter what you say or do, I'm voting for Bush in November. And you can do the same for Kerry, I don't care. I'm from Texas, so my vote doesn't matter much, anyway.

lol, yay american partisan propoganda

see, both of those pieces ignore the fact that both bush and kerry are basically the same, stupid american "democracy"

Notice how the Kerry-supporters think Unfit is a bunch of lies, while us Bush supporters think 9-11 is a bunch of (insert long chain of insults).


Anyways, the point I am trying to get across is that most of us here in NS are galvanized...thinking either "Bush is a total nutcase who isn't fit to run a Mc Donalds" or "Kerry is a lying, flip-floppin waffle-case 'Unfit for Command'"

Either way, all this post is doin is getting us riled up.....no matter what you say or do, I'm voting for Bush in November. And you can do the same for Kerry, I don't care. I'm from Texas, so my vote doesn't matter much, anyway.
john o neill is a republican hired gun attack dog going back to the reagan era. moore uses FACTS in his documentaries, he twists them into pretzels for his onw purposes but they are facts. o'neill and most other if not all other swift boat vets against kerry are lying scum. and o'neill wasnt even in vietnam at the same time kerry was

Notice how the Kerry-supporters think Unfit is a bunch of lies, while us Bush supporters think 9-11 is a bunch of (insert long chain of insults).


Anyways, the point I am trying to get across is that most of us here in NS are galvanized...thinking either "Bush is a total nutcase who isn't fit to run a Mc Donalds" or "Kerry is a lying, flip-floppin waffle-case 'Unfit for Command'"

Either way, all this post is doin is getting us riled up.....no matter what you say or do, I'm voting for Bush in November. And you can do the same for Kerry, I don't care. I'm from Texas, so my vote doesn't matter much, anyway.

Wait, you're saying that no matter how compelling our argument against Bush is, even if me make an inarguable point (hypothetically) against him being re-elected, you will not change your mind? That is the correct interpretation of the phrase "no matter what you say or do," isn't it? That, my friend, is a sign of mental illness.

Both are a waste of good money. Research the candidates, see where they stand on the issues. Look at Kerry's voting (when he bothered to show up). Forget Kerry's service in Vietnam. Forget Bush's service in the National Guard. I'm gonna vote my pocket book this year. Bush is promising tax cuts, Kerry has been voting for tax increases in The People's Republic of Taxachusetts for 20 years...and he is promising to repeal Bush's tax cuts. Guess who has my vote....Bush '04

moore uses FACTS in his documentaries, he twists them into pretzels for his onw purposes,


Good point. Moore does twist around his facts until they are barely comprehendable. But I'm not going to argue over this. I'm from Texas. I support Bush. Even if I voted Kerry, it still wouldn't matter.

Kerry is going to win this election. And I don't care. Anybody but Ralph Nader.

Don't bother flaming me, I won't be reading this thread again.

It's lies about Kerry from the same people who brought you the swift boat ads. It's written by John E. O'Neill, Jerome R. Corsi. It was a waste of good money if you ask me, at least F9/11 was entertaining. Unfit for Command wasn't even very compelling, let alone entertaining.

Haha, I love how Michael Moore and Kerry who are constantly caught in lies and deceptions are an honest source for you, but the Swift Vets who account for the majority of people who served with Kerry are liars in your oh so slanted oppinion.

Both are a waste of good money. Research the candidates, see where they stand on the issues. Look at Kerry's voting (when he bothered to show up). Forget Kerry's service in Vietnam. Forget Bush's service in the National Guard. I'm gonna vote my pocket book this year. Bush is promising tax cuts, Kerry has been voting for tax increases in The People's Republic of Taxachusetts for 20 years...and he is promising to repeal Bush's tax cuts. Guess who has my vote....Bush '04


I guess you don't care about improving health care or anything like that because thats what your tax dollars go towards. You think your taxes are high. The lowest taxes in Canada are just slightly lower than those of your highest state I believe.

Wait, you're saying that no matter how compelling our argument against Bush is, even if me make an inarguable point (hypothetically) against him being re-elected, you will not change your mind? That is the correct interpretation of the phrase "no matter what you say or do," isn't it? That, my friend, is a sign of mental illness.


One quick note: What I ment to say is that you theoretically could come up with enought information to change my mind, I would resist and try to ignore it. Like if I made you watch 10 hours straight of Bush Ad's and Swifties. And even if I did vote Kerry, I'm from Texas. Bush is going to win my state. His state. Our state...whatever.

Kerry is going to win the election though. And I'm not going to stop him.

P.S. I'm taking French, just in case :P

P.P.S. I won't be reading or replying to this again....so don't bother flaming me.

Whatever your opinions of F911 and Unfit, there is only one fact needed to decide why Bush should not be the leader of a hot dog stand, much less an entire country:

He sent us to two unwinnable counter-insurgency wars during a recession. That is the single most boneheaded thing ever done by any president, ever.

One quick note: What I ment to say is that you theoretically could come up with enought information to change my mind, I would resist and try to ignore it. Like if I made you watch 10 hours straight of Bush Ad's and Swifties. And even if I did vote Kerry, I'm from Texas. Bush is going to win my state. His state. Our state...whatever.

Kerry is going to win the election though. And I'm not going to stop him.

P.S. I'm taking French, just in case :P

P.P.S. I won't be reading or replying to this again....so don't bother flaming me.

No flames required. I point to the emphasized words above though. Ya know. We all, as rational beings, have to resist as powerfully as we can the instinct to avoid information that runs contrary to our pre-conceived ideas or is uncomfortable to digest. We all do it, it's part of the innate bias that makes us individuals. We still have to resist and sometimes risk the horrible result of broadening our minds and increasing our understanding.

It was (I believe) Socrates who said words to the effect of, "If I am wise, it is because I alone know that I know nothing."

The old Greek makes a good point. Put down the Kool-Aide and the hemlock.

I guess you don't care about improving health care or anything like that because thats what your tax dollars go towards. You think your taxes are high. The lowest taxes in Canada are just slightly lower than those of your highest state I believe.

Quit wasting my tax money to study the sex habits of the South American Swamp Rat, to build another unneeded atomic clock in West Virginia, to subsidize "artists" who put up a 100 mile long line of umbrellas across California, or submerge crucifixes in urine and you wont need to raise taxes.

I guess you don't care about improving health care or anything like that because thats what your tax dollars go towards. You think your taxes are high. The lowest taxes in Canada are just slightly lower than those of your highest state I believe.
Income taxes - dosen't Canada have a 20% sales tax or something.

Income taxes - dosen't Canada have a 20% sales tax or something.

Sales tax in my province of Ontario is 7%

no matter what you say or do, I'm voting for Bush in November.

Well, that's an ignorant opinion. You mean you can't imagine anything that would change your mind?

Income taxes - dosen't Canada have a 20% sales tax or something.


Our combined PST AND GST is over 10% in EVERY province except for Alberta, they only have GST. In Quebec, the two taxes combined equal 20%, they have the highest GST and then follow the 6% PST. In Saskatchewan, our sales tax is 7% now cuz those idiots in the NDP wasted our money on TV commercials.

Its an biased poll, I'm not going to vote..
Actually: These choices make sense
1) I have seen 911 and read Unfit - My opinion is informed!
2) I have only seen 911 - I am not fully informed.
3) I have only read 'Unfit' - I am not fully informed.
4) I've not seen or read either and am honest ehough to admit it!

If youve read both your informed about this thread. Read one and you are uninformed most likely.
And if you are honest will admit didn't read/watch either then hey your honest.
Misinfiormed Speedin:
Both are a waste of good money. Research the candidates, see where they stand on the issues. Look at Kerry's voting (when he bothered to show up). Forget Kerry's service in Vietnam. Forget Bush's service in the National Guard. I'm gonna vote my pocket book this year. Bush is promising tax cuts, Kerry has been voting for tax increases in The People's Republic of Taxachusetts for 20 years...and he is promising to repeal Bush's tax cuts. Guess who has my vote....Bush '04
Kerry will raise taxes on rich unless you are top 10% you aren't getting a increase, stop listening to Repubs lie to you and exagerate stuff.

I'm honest, I haven't seen 9/11 movie or read that book.
However:
Swift boats have lied on commercials, Moore hasn't lied in a commercial (he hasn't spoken much though lol)
But since I have yet to see it and both have been discredited because both have distorted things niether are accurate.,
Swift lied with their fake doctor who said he operated on Kerry when he didn't for a wound. The real doctor did work on Kerry said it wasn't a minor wound like Swifties lied about.
Moore distorts facts but isn't lying fully but a few times he exagerates to a effect. He trys to make you think but raising questions. He doesn't answer them because you are supposed to.

At least 9/11 is supposed to be entertaining.

Sales tax in my province of Ontario is 7%

Ironically, the Sales tax is 7% in the county I live in and the STATE sales tax and most of the counties I know of are 6%

Income taxes - dosen't Canada have a 20% sales tax or something.

the way it works is this:

income tax, bracket based, ranges from 28% (richest) to 48% (poorest, and a dip somewhere in middle income of 53%.

that's income tax. after that, there is the 8% GST (that's flat across canada, for those not having bothered to actually pester a local policitician about it during the chretien era) and the local provincal sales tax, except as noted by someone else in the kingdom of klein (alberta), but for ontario, this is 7%.

so, 40% income tax, 15% tax on each thing you buy. next step.

recently in ontario, the liberal government declared we had to pay a "fee" for the hydro debt, incurred by selling electricity to the U.S. at canadian market prices (with companies in the U.S. jacking it by 24c/kwh.). this amounts to a "small tax".

also, healthcare premiums, which are soemthing like 1% of your pre-tax income) are also charged to you now.

the government charges you GST and PST on those fees.

for other things, like tobacco, we have things like sin taxes, health tax, operations tax, etc. all of which also have taxes in the form of the GST levied on them.

i think that gets the basics down for how it works up here. with some ontario specific stuff. form what i understand, this sort of crap goes on everywhere except in the kingdom of klein.

so.... when is the U.S. gonna send the military here to liberate us form our liberal red oppressors, whom have been in power for almost 20 years straight now?

Should've worked that out in your last elections before you voted the liberals into a Minority government.

Should've worked that out in your last elections before you voted the liberals into a Minority government.


Believe me, we tried but people in Ontario still love the Liberals for some reason. Well certain people in Ontario anyway.

Believe me, we tried but people in Ontario still love the Liberals for some reason.

LOL! I noticed! Well there is always next time. Besides. Should warn your fellow countrymen about the Scare tactics that the liberals used to get re-elected.

LOL! I noticed! Well there is always next time. Besides. Should warn your fellow countrymen about the Scare tactics that the liberals used to get re-elected.


Ya, they ran so many stupid ads about Harper being an anti-gay, anti-abortion, pro-usa moron who would ruin the country and turn it into baby usa. Martin won't last long in a minority government and there should be an election in two years or less and he will likely lose that one.

Ya, they ran so many stupid ads about Harper being an anti-gay, anti-abortion, pro-usa moron who would ruin the country and turn it into baby usa. Martin won't last long in a minority government and there should be an election in two years or less and he will likely lose that one.

We can only hope!

I thought both were excellent examples of how using half truthes, out of context statements and one-sided arguments can far outweigh any legitimate arguments you may have formed in the rest of the work. I like how a lot of liberals praised 9/11 and trashed the book, and how the conservatives praised "Unfit" and wanted to burn Moore at the stake.

Both Michael Moore and the author of unfit need to learn that, as Oscar Wilde once said.."the pure and simple truth is never pure and rarely simple"... or something like that. I probably butchered the statement, but it's close.

There should be a third option on the poll.. I've read "Unfit" and saw "9/11" and am no more informed than I was before. That's the one I would have checked.

Haha, I love how Michael Moore and Kerry who are constantly caught in lies and deceptions are an honest source for you, but the Swift Vets who account for the majority of people who served with Kerry are liars in your oh so slanted oppinion.

somebody hasn't been paying attention. the swift boat vets have been caught in so many utterly stupid lies that i'm impressed. i mean, this is above and beyond the normal level of political obfuscation and double talk. this is using people's names on your attack ads as if they helped write it without their permission or even against their explicit ideals and sometimes without asking them at all. we've moved beyond normal political dishonesty here and on towards creationist or neo-nazi level dishonesty.

I thought both were excellent examples of how using half truthes, out of context statements and one-sided arguments can far outweigh any legitimate arguments you may have formed in the rest of the work. I like how a lot of liberals praised 9/11 and trashed the book, and how the conservatives praised "Unfit" and wanted to burn Moore at the stake.

Both Michael Moore and the author of unfit need to learn that, as Oscar Wilde once said.."the pure and simple truth is never pure and rarely simple"... or something like that. I probably butchered the statement, but it's close.

There should be a third option on the poll.. I've read "Unfit" and saw "9/11" and am no more informed than I was before. That's the one I would have checked.
:LOL:

LOL! I noticed! Well there is always next time. Besides. Should warn your fellow countrymen about the Scare tactics that the liberals used to get re-elected.

The reality is Canada is a liberal country. Conservatives in this country are in a very small minority. The only reason the liberals didn't do as well as they usually do is because the country punished them for the $100 million dollar scandal that happened under our former PM, not our current one. The liberals have been in power in this country for most of the last 70 years and I doubt that is going to change any time soon.

The reality is Canada is a liberal country. Conservatives in this country are in a very small minority. The only reason the liberals didn't do as well as they usually do is because the country punished them for the $100 million dollar scandal that happened under our former PM, not our current one. The liberals have been in power in this country for most of the last 70 years and I doubt that is going to change any time soon.

Correct me if I'm wrong but your Former PM is a liberal and your current one is a liberal. However, your current PM has VERY LOW approval ratings and you talk about Bush's approval ratings being low.

Believe me, we tried but people in Ontario still love the Liberals for some reason. Well certain people in Ontario anyway.

Eh, most people see it as the lesser of two evils... Only a little.

Correct me if I'm wrong but your Former PM is a liberal and your current one is a liberal. However, your current PM has VERY LOW approval ratings and you talk about Bush's approval ratings being low.

And the PM before Chretien was a conservative, Mulroney. His approval rating was much worse than Chretien's. Its amazing he served 2 terms although he didn't finish the second. He quit under similar circumstances to Chretien and was replaced by an incompetant. Then the Liberal party took over next election.

Well there is also the option of a vote of non-confidence (or whatever its called) where a party will replace its leader and put in a more suitable one.

They had a token one on Chretien to let him know they were unsatisfied with his bungling and then forced him to choose a retirement date. Enter Paul Martin, his replacement. Since its the party and not-so-much the person the country elects, there is less loyalty placed on the person (unless you're a boot-lick).

I don't think political parties in the states replace incumbent leaders, or at least choose not to. What is the policy/law regarding this? I know that one could run against the incumbant and be elected during the conventions although there is more rallying behind the incumbent than in Canada.

Anyway, if Martin's approval is low (give the man a break, I say, he got the job under some very bad conditions thanks to Chretien) and his policies suck and he can't hold his party together and form alliances with other parties, etc. then they will replace him. Hopefully, no damage will be done but, how likely is that?

Interesting how many people here have 'opinions' about Moore or the Swifties, but how few people here have bothered to fairly examine them both.

I've seen 9/11. I work in a bookstore and I've tried to read unfit and its just poorly written. When does the swift vet movie come out?

I thought both were excellent examples of how using half truthes, out of context statements and one-sided arguments can far outweigh any legitimate arguments you may have formed in the rest of the work. I like how a lot of liberals praised 9/11 and trashed the book, and how the conservatives praised "Unfit" and wanted to burn Moore at the stake.

Both Michael Moore and the author of unfit need to learn that, as Oscar Wilde once said.."the pure and simple truth is never pure and rarely simple"... or something like that. I probably butchered the statement, but it's close.

There should be a third option on the poll.. I've read "Unfit" and saw "9/11" and am no more informed than I was before. That's the one I would have checked.

If that's not it then it's really close. It's from The Importance of Being Ernest. Algernon says it. Dammit, I need to find that book, I've been meaning to read it again recently...

Both are a waste of good money. Research the candidates, see where they stand on the issues. Look at Kerry's voting (when he bothered to show up). Forget Kerry's service in Vietnam. Forget Bush's service in the National Guard. I'm gonna vote my pocket book this year. Bush is promising tax cuts, Kerry has been voting for tax increases in The People's Republic of Taxachusetts for 20 years...and he is promising to repeal Bush's tax cuts. Guess who has my vote....Bush '04


Right on! And well said! :)

Kerry wants to rase taxes??? I thought he wanted to CUT taxes!

I can't keep up.