NationStates Jolt Archive

Who is YHWH ?

Who is YHWH ?

He is the creator, created Heaven and Earth, Adam and Eve...talked to the Prophets...etc

....interesting.

from dictionary.com:


ho·ly ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hl)
adj. ho·li·er, ho·li·est
Belonging to, derived from, or associated with a divine power; sacred.
Regarded with or worthy of worship or veneration; revered: a holy book.
Living according to a strict or highly moral religious or spiritual system; saintly: a holy person.
Specified or set apart for a religious purpose: a holy place.
Solemnly undertaken; sacrosanct: a holy pledge.
Regarded as deserving special respect or reverence: The pursuit of peace is our holiest quest.
Informal. Used as an intensive: raised holy hell over the mischief their children did.


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Middle English holi, from Old English hlig. See kailo- in Indo-European Roots.


And bible:


Bi·ble ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bbl)
n.

The sacred book of Christianity, a collection of ancient writings including the books of both the Old Testament and the New Testament.
The Hebrew Scriptures, the sacred book of Judaism.
A particular copy of a Bible: the old family Bible.
A book or collection of writings constituting the sacred text of a religion.
often bible A book considered authoritative in its field: the bible of French cooking.


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Middle English, from Old French, from Late Latin biblia, from Greek, pl. of biblion, book diminutive of biblos, papyrus, book, from Bublos Byblos.



most of modern day English does not stem from Hebrew....but an interesting read nonetheless.

He is the creator, created Heaven and Earth, Adam and Eve...talked to the Prophets...etc

The ancient Hebrews felt that God's name was so sacred that they could not refer to YHWH (Yahweh with vowels added) and thus dubbed the name Jehovah.

Death to all Christians, as long as you take all of these left-wing nuts with you. I'm all for getting rid of both sides and starting over. I think the most productive thing that could ever happen would be a nuke or complete destruction of this planet, especially college campuses in the USA.

Blow the whole thing to hell!

Death to all Christians, as long as you take all of these left-wing nuts with you. I'm all for getting rid of both sides and starting over. I think the most productive thing that could ever happen would be a nuke or complete destruction of this planet, especially college campuses in the USA.

Why does everyone seem to think that college is the root of all evil? Are people inherently opposed to gaining knowledge?

Death to all Christians, as long as you take all of these left-wing nuts with you. I'm all for getting rid of both sides and starting over. I think the most productive thing that could ever happen would be a nuke or complete destruction of this planet, especially college campuses in the USA.

Blow the whole thing to hell!

intesting opinion...what brings you to that conclusion?

hmmm...i wonder if you'll stick around to read this or if you're just trying to stir up trouble...

So does that mean that God once endorsed these behaviors but changed His mind? I find that a little flimsy, to be honest; who would worship a God who EVER condoned stoning your child to death?


Well, it does seem quite a few Muslims are quite prepared to worship such a God, who in their mind does condone such things.

He is the creator, created Heaven and Earth, Adam and Eve...talked to the Prophets...etcHow do you know? And how would you know that YHWH is not completely different from what you believe in? How do you know that Yah is not the Akkadian god Ea (or Eyah if you wish, remember the words god speaks to Moses from the burning bush: "I am the one who is called Eyah", a play on words) who warned Utnapishtim (Noah) before the flood? And how do you know that Yah is not the Sumerian god Enki who is the lord of the Water out of which the land was elevated? HOW DO YOU POSSIBLY KNOW? How do you know that Moses was not confused by the differing accounts of Yahweh and Elohim who were only then merged into one deity?
There is a history of the time before the Hebrew lie about who the gods are has come into the world, and it is high time that the world awakens. Now the scriptures that are older and more accurate than the ridiculous Bible are finally re-surfacing. What a blessing.

How does everybody know the same God has not been called different names by different people, and understood in different ways by them?

How does everybody know the same God has not been called different names by different people, and understood in different ways by them?What makes you believe in the monotheistic concept in the first place? It's not really in the Bible.

What makes you believe in the monotheistic concept in the first place? It's not really in the Bible.

Personal beliefs, maybe? Personal reflection? Study and realization that most of the pantheons of gods and/or monotheistic gods have the same general characteristics and so it makes sense, if you believe in deities at all, to think that they may all be the same?

What makes you so sure that the monotheistic concept is wrong?

Personal beliefs, maybe? Personal reflection? Study and realization that most of the pantheons of gods and/or monotheistic gods have the same general characteristics and so it makes sense, if you believe in deities at all, to think that they may all be the same?

This is how I came to it. It seems to me that not only are there similar characteristics in the pantheons or monotheistic gods themselves, as they're described, but also the moral codes and writings have a tremendous degree of commonality, which rather than being disenheartening to me, points to a common root to it all.

<personal experience only>There's also the aspect of spiritual experiences, which I fully understand not everyone believes in, and are not "evidence" in the same way because they must be experienced firsthand. I don't care to get into it because it includes private details, but I've had a few profound ones. When you compare them to accounts across many cultures, there's a lot of similiarity, suggesting a common underlying mechanism.</personal experience only>

Personal beliefs, maybe? Personal reflection? Study and realization that most of the pantheons of gods and/or monotheistic gods have the same general characteristics and so it makes sense, if you believe in deities at all, to think that they may all be the same?So what you are describing is the ancient Egyptian faith: one divine force with many manifestations?
What pantheons do you know?

So what you are describing is the ancient Egyptian faith: one divine force with many manifestations?
What pantheons do you know?

I am describing more that there is one divine force and different people view that force differently. My boyfriend (who strangely enough, is an atheist) described in the best way I have heard thus far. Suppose that there was a mirror that gave us a reflection of the divine. Now suppose that mirror was shattered and pieces of it have ended up as each religion's view of the divine. Everyone has a piece of the puzzle and no one really has the whole view.

Completely? Very few. I know some of the history behind the Egyptian, Greek and Roman, and Norse pantheons. There are a few African gods that I have heard of, but don't know too much about. I also understand that Wicca has a pantheon of gods and goddesses to choose from. In addition, I know that in the time of Abraham, individual families often had their own deities that they worshipped.

Why do you ask? If you would like to prove that you know more about different pantheons than me, I will go ahead and concede to you that title.

Who is YHWH ?

YHWH isn't a person, an entity or even a thing.

YHWH is the Tetragrammaton "Yodh He Waw He", the four letters that REPRESENT the name of 'god'. It is from this Tetragrammaton, by translational errors, that we get the modern English equivalent of "Jehovah" as the 'name' for god. (This is an error based on later corrections of YHWH in text, to show that it was to be pronounced after Adonay - to avoid profaning the sacred name... when YHWH FIRST appeared in text, it was considered acceptable to say it, but this tradition had all but disappeared by the time Old Testament books after the Septaguint were written).

Origins of the 'word' differ, with most assuming that YHWH is derived from the Hebrew for "To be" - as in the "I am that I am" passage. The 'name' of god would literally mean 'he that is'.

Further to this, it is sometimes considered that the name actually represents all three basic tenses of "to be", Past, Present and Future - reference to the infinite nature of 'god'. (Hovah [HVH] + Hayah [HYH] + Yi-yeh [YHYH])

Another interpretation gives YHWH as being derived from the name of the original 'creator' of the world (HWH - transliterated into Latin directly as E-V-E)... pointing to the possible origins of the Israelites faith as a goddess-faith, or, more likely, a pantheism. (Note: the name of God "Elohim" suggests a plural, and Shehikinah (the spirit of god on earth) is of female form...so there is much reason to suspect an early Israelitish pantheism with male AND female elements).

The 'name' of YHWH is usually now given as Adonai, to avoid saying the name (and, therefore taking it in vain), and to avoid mispronunciation (which would be tantamount to blasphemy). Adonai simply means "My Lord", another of the possible interpretations of YHWH.

The safest way to refer to the Tetragrammaton would he "HaShem". Simply, "the Name".

Personal beliefs, maybe? Personal reflection? Study and realization that most of the pantheons of gods and/or monotheistic gods have the same general characteristics and so it makes sense, if you believe in deities at all, to think that they may all be the same?

What makes you so sure that the monotheistic concept is wrong?

Except for the 'names' and the 'lip-service concessions', I am finding it hard to think of any ACTUAL monotheistic religions...?

YHWH isn't a person, an entity or even a thing.

YHWH is the Tetragrammaton "Yodh He Waw He", the four letters that REPRESENT the name of 'god'. It is from this Tetragrammaton, by translational errors, that we get the modern English equivalent of "Jehovah" as the 'name' for god. (This is an error based on later corrections of YHWH in text, to show that it was to be pronounced after Adonay - to avoid profaning the sacred name... when YHWH FIRST appeared in text, it was considered acceptable to say it, but this tradition had all but disappeared by the time Old Testament books after the Septaguint were written).

Origins of the 'word' differ, with most assuming that YHWH is derived from the Hebrew for "To be" - as in the "I am that I am" passage. The 'name' of god would literally mean 'he that is'.

Further to this, it is sometimes considered that the name actually represents all three basic tenses of "to be", Past, Present and Future - reference to the infinite nature of 'god'. (Hovah [HVH] + Hayah [HYH] + Yi-yeh [YHYH])

Another interpretation gives YHWH as being derived from the name of the original 'creator' of the world (HWH - transliterated into Latin directly as E-V-E)... pointing to the possible origins of the Israelites faith as a goddess-faith, or, more likely, a pantheism. (Note: the name of God "Elohim" suggests a plural, and Shehikinah (the spirit of god on earth) is of female form...so there is much reason to suspect an early Israelitish pantheism with male AND female elements).

The 'name' of YHWH is usually now given as Adonai, to avoid saying the name (and, therefore taking it in vain), and to avoid mispronunciation (which would be tantamount to blasphemy). Adonai simply means "My Lord", another of the possible interpretations of YHWH.

The safest way to refer to the Tetragrammaton would he "HaShem". Simply, "the Name".
What information would the "I am that I am" passage hold for Moses or for his people given that Moses himself had no knowledge of the Hebrew traditions but he might have heard of the Hebrew gods though? Is it not more intelligent to assume that this god told Moses the name (Eyah) under which he had been known for the last 2000 years, that would make it easy for the people to identify the deity who is leading them out of Egypt?

What information would the "I am that I am" passage hold for Moses or for his people given that Moses himself had no knowledge of the Hebrew traditions but he might have heard of the Hebrew gods though? Is it not more intelligent to assume that this god told Moses the name (Eyah) under which he had been known for the last 2000 years, that would make it easy for the people to identify the deity who is leading them out of Egypt?

I think you are misunderstanding me. I am not saying that Moses based anything on anything. I am saying what the evidence shows as the evolution of the Tetragrammaton... I am adding no actual significance to the 'name'.

But, in response:

a) Since YHWH basically means "He that is", it is not unlikely that Moses might have had enough of the Hebrew tongue to announce this name - even if it were by accident. "I am being led by he that is..."

b) Since the Mosaic texts were (obviously) written later than the events they detailed... there is no way of knowing what any given person said... all we have is records that may or may not be true. Imagine Moses saying "I am following Ba'al"... well, the diarist isn't going to record the name "Ba'al" even though it just means "lord", so he records the name Moses SHOULD have said... the DIARIST adds the Tetragrammaton.

c) It is ACTUALLY more intelligent to assume that the story is a story, may or may not be true, and has had near 3000 years of editing. Intelligence and faith have no necessity of correlation. Add to this that I think you would find it hard to prove that "Moses" was even a real person, the question becomes somewhat abstract.

Which is why I was talking about what CAN be observed... the evolution of the name.

Being realistic, the name is almost certainly stolen from earlier Mesopotamian religion anyway... which is why I was ONLY talking about Tetragrammaton within a very specific scope.

I think you are misunderstanding me. I am not saying that Moses based anything on anything. I am saying what the evidence shows as the evolution of the Tetragrammaton... I am adding no actual significance to the 'name'.

But, in response:

a) Since YHWH basically means "He that is", it is not unlikely that Moses might have had enough of the Hebrew tongue to announce this name - even if it were by accident. "I am being led by he that is..."

b) Since the Mosaic texts were (obviously) written later than the events they detailed... there is no way of knowing what any given person said... all we have is records that may or may not be true. Imagine Moses saying "I am following Ba'al"... well, the diarist isn't going to record the name "Ba'al" even though it just means "lord", so he records the name Moses SHOULD have said... the DIARIST adds the Tetragrammaton.

c) It is ACTUALLY more intelligent to assume that the story is a story, may or may not be true, and has had near 3000 years of editing. Intelligence and faith have no necessity of correlation. Add to this that I think you would find it hard to prove that "Moses" was even a real person, the question becomes somewhat abstract.

Which is why I was talking about what CAN be observed... the evolution of the name.

Being realistic, the name is almost certainly stolen from earlier Mesopotamian religion anyway... which is why I was ONLY talking about Tetragrammaton within a very specific scope.
What makes you believ that the Tetragrammaton is not the actual spelling of this god's name? Why are there so many names then ending in –yah?

What makes you believ that the Tetragrammaton is not the actual spelling of this god's name? Why are there so many names then ending in –yah?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean, with this question?

There are names ending in 'yah because it is acceptable to use derivative names of YHWH, but not to use the name itself...

e.g. Hallelujah, Elijah, Joshua

But these words and names come AFTER the 'revelation' of the name YHWH, so I'm not sure what you are getting at...? They no more 'validate' that name as being a 'true' name of god, than does Sammael, Michael, Gabriel 'validate' the 'true name' as El.

Or maybe you mean: why do I not think that the Tetragrammaton IS the name of god? Partly because of it's representational nature (e.g. my name isn't Man-At-Computer), partly because of the observable evolution of the name from earlier Hebrew construction partly because the early Hebrew faith is an accumulation of Mesopotamian lore. The "TRUE" name of God would be more likely to be "Dagon", for example... although even THAT is representational.

The Bible is the ispired word of God. It should always be taken as literal. Unless it is presented as a parable or the book of Job which most scolars believe to be a parable.

The Bible is the ispired word of God. It should always be taken as literal. Unless it is presented as a parable or the book of Job which most scolars believe to be a parable.

That's a wonderful idea, I heartily commend it.

Now, if you would be so kind as to show me where the pillars are that the world rests on... and after that, I would like to see the mountain so high you can view all the world from it...

The Bible is the ispired word of God. It should always be taken as literal. Unless it is presented as a parable or the book of Job which most scolars believe to be a parable.

heh, I just gotta post this link again ;)

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

That's a wonderful idea, I heartily commend it.

Now, if you would be so kind as to show me where the pillars are that the world rests on... and after that, I would like to see the mountain so high you can view all the world from it...

Yeah, and I would like to know where the other universe is. THere is the 7 day universe and then the Adam and Eve universe. Where are they both located?

So does that mean that God once endorsed these behaviors but changed His mind? I find that a little flimsy, to be honest; who would worship a God who EVER condoned stoning your child to death?

well he did allow his own son to be crucified to pay for the sins of all of us. so i dunno.

Abel killed Cain in a field.

no- cain killed abel.....abel didnt kill cain

im sorry to have corrected you again- i see where you were just waking up-lol. theres so many posts that i replied to one before i read them all. my apologies liberta