NationStates Jolt Archive

*right before these same peace protesters were the ones falsely charged with assault. Already Bush is escalating ever increasing violent provocations against dissent in America. We can only speculate where the divisions and visceral hate that follows Bush in his wake will take us as a nation

JUAN GONZALEZ: On Wednesday, 11 AIDS activists from the group ACT UP were arrest after they breached the Madison Square Garden convention hall and briefly interrupted a speech by White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card to Young Republicans. They have now been charged with assault and inciting a riot.

AMY GOODMAN: We are joined now by Kris Hermes who is a member of ACT UP Philadelphia. He was among the members of ACT UP to be arrested. Describe the protest.

KRIS HERMES: Well, we entered the convention to expose the naked truth about Bush's policies on AIDS, and to urge him to call for 100% debt cancellation for at least 50 of the poorest nations in the world.

AMY GOODMAN: What did you do exactly?

KRIS HERMES: Well, we sat on the floor in the New York delegation area and when Andrew Card began to speak, we blew whistles, stood up on the chairs, and chanted and held signs. There was a banner that was attempted to be unfurled, and then proceeded to be assaulted by Young Republicans.

AMY GOODMAN: What do you mean? You continued to be assaulted. Because the charge is the other way around.

KRIS HERMES: Yeah. Unfortunately, there were no Young Republicans that were taken off with assault charges. However, we were not able to stand on the chairs for more than probably a minute before we were assaulted by Republicans around us.

JUAN GONZALEZ: Now there were some camera video that showed one, at least one of the Republican young people kicking someone who was down. Kicking him repeatedly and admitting to kicking the person repeatedly.

KRIS HERMES: Right.

AMY GOODMAN: Well Juan, let's go to the Channel 7 report on WABC. They were there. They filmed this. This is their report. This is how they told the story on Wednesday. WABC's report.

WABC REPORT: The White House Chief of Staff had just taken the stage when chaos erupted on the floor of the Republican Youth Convention. At least 10 protesters ripped off their shirts and coats to reveal anti-Bush signs. They unfurled a black banner criticizing Bush’s AIDS policy, as the crowd and the secret service closed in. Within seconds, the violence had begun. One young man was pushed off his chair. And we caught one Young Republican on camera shoving a female protester. He doesn't stop there. Watch. He's kicking her over and over as she falls to the floor.

AMY GOODMAN: That report from WABC. That's very different from what the police account of this is, and they have the video documentation for those who are listening on radio right now. Kris? So how many of you were charged?

KRIS HERMES: There were 11 of us charged while doing a protest on the floor. We are part of the group that was also protesting the previous Thursday in a naked action in front of Madison Square Garden.

AMY GOODMAN: Why naked?

KRIS HERMES: We wanted to bring attention to Bush's policies on AIDS by explaining that the naked truth is that he is not doing what's necessary to address the pandemic that's killing millions of people on the planet.

JUAN GONZALEZ: How long were you held, and what were you charged with?

KRIS HERMES: I was held for approximately 30 hours, and I was charged with inciting a riot, assault, and disorderly conduct.

JUAN GONZALEZ: Well, my knowledge of assault, at least, is that you have to have someone actually injured to have to even be charged with assault.

KRIS HERMES: There is a claim that an anonymous person has claimed that they were hit by someone.
www.democracynow.com

There should be rules against copy/paste spamming.

Now, look. Im a moderate. Is it just me, or is Democracynow really, really, really biased? As in, unworthy for a source of information regarding anything political?
Sure, if this story is true, its bad. Its most likely not though, that or its an exaggeration of the facts, IE: A few people got knocked on the head by cops when they tried to tip some cars, or something.
Maybe I should start random topics from the National Enquirers website...

There should be rules against copy/paste spamming.

Now, look. Im a moderate. Is it just me, or is Democracynow really, really, really biased? As in, unworthy for a source of information regarding anything political?
Sure, if this story is true, its bad. Its most likely not though, that or its an exaggeration of the facts, IE: A few people got knocked on the head by cops when they tried to tip some cars, or something.
Maybe I should start random topics from the National Enquirers website...
yes it has a radical truth bias--your unfamiliar with that cause the lies of the corporate pig media has numbed your senses with their irrelevant obsessions on Scott peterson and kobe bryant type of distractions

There should be rules against copy/paste spamming.
You appear to be new here, so let me show you what I see on these posts: This message is hidden because MKULTRA is on your ignore list.Highly recommended way to avoid putting up with tolerated spammers. Click the author's name, choose Public Profile, and follow the links to Ignore the author.

You appear to be new here, so let me show you what I see on these posts:Highly recommended way to avoid putting up with tolerated spammers. Click the author's name, choose Public Profile, and follow the links to Ignore the author.
LOL good--that means I can say whatever I want about you now and you cant see it ;)

LOL good--that means I can say whatever I want about you now and you cant see it ;)

;) Yes. But WE see everything.

yes it has a radical truth bias--your unfamiliar with that cause the lies of the corporate pig media has numbed your senses with their irrelevant obsessions on Scott peterson and kobe bryant type of distractions

I'll say it again: You're just the liberal version of the conservative who says, "Drudge and NewsMax are unbiased, no one else!"

yes it has a radical truth bias--your unfamiliar with that cause the lies of the corporate pig media has numbed your senses with their irrelevant obsessions on Scott peterson and kobe bryant type of distractions
Y'see, thats what I like about CNN.
Both the Conservatives and Liberals accuse them of being biased. Therefore they cancel out and CNN is unbiased...mostly.
So...Im guessing from your post that your actually joking abou this...not many people would seriously use the phrase 'corporate pig media'...
Good on ya, keep it up.

Other guy:
But...if I ignore him, how can I laugh? Humour is important. You burn three calories every time you laugh.

I wish it was true.

Y'see, thats what I like about CNN.
Both the Conservatives and Liberals accuse them of being biased. Therefore they cancel out and CNN is unbiased...mostly.
So...Im guessing from your post that your actually joking abou this...not many people would seriously use the phrase 'corporate pig media'...
Good on ya, keep it up.

Other guy:
But...if I ignore him, how can I laugh? Humour is important. You burn three calories every time you laugh.
never forget who CNN had cover the democractic convention, RALPH REED!!! (not even foxnews went this far...)

I have no idea who that is, but Ill assume hes an evil Nazi capitolist pig-dog thingy.
...
...
Burn him?

Yep - AIDS is all Bush's fault. What a bastard. It is his responsibility to stop people from scewing each other like rabbits with no protection.

I have no idea who that is, but Ill assume hes an evil Nazi capitolist pig-dog thingy.
...
...
Burn him?
CNN is trying to outfox fox for ratings and Ralph Reed is a Christian fundamentalist extremist who works in the Bush administration trying to turn America into a Christian fundie version of Iran

Yep - AIDS is all Bush's fault. What a bastard. It is his responsibility to stop people from scewing each other like rabbits with no protection.
Im fairly sure thats Gods fault. Overbearing Republican that he is.

Do you ever post anything that isn't from democracynow?

all news is biased all history is biased, once you can accept that fact you will all go a long way toward understanding the world. also don't assume a moderate mainstream news source is any less biased, its just biased toward the moderate mainstream positions. cnn, fox news, al jazeera, the revolutionary worker, and stormfront all report the truth as they see it. you just need to decide which version of the truth you are interested in, you can't have it all. total information without any interpretation would just reduce the world to an incomprehensible blur.

Do you ever post anything that isn't from democracynow?
yeah once I posted something from AOL.News

all news is biased all history is biased, once you can accept that fact you will all go a long way toward understanding the world. also don't assume a moderate mainstream news source is any less biased, its just biased toward the moderate mainstream positions. cnn, fox news, al jazeera, the revolutionary worker, and stormfront all report the truth as they see it. you just need to decide which version of the truth you are interested in, you can't have it all. total information without any interpretation would just reduce the world to an incomprehensible blur.
words of wisdom--Democracynow is just as valied as the pablum puking corporate media that obsesses on celebrity gossip and sensationalistic crime updates exclusively

There should be rules against copy/paste spamming.

Now, look. Im a moderate. Is it just me, or is Democracynow really, really, really biased? As in, unworthy for a source of information regarding anything political?
Sure, if this story is true, its bad. Its most likely not though, that or its an exaggeration of the facts, IE: A few people got knocked on the head by cops when they tried to tip some cars, or something.
Maybe I should start random topics from the National Enquirers website...

The Mos placed a one-a-day paste and copy spam limit on this poster when he
was the Red Arrow. He violated it and was deleted. I don't know if the limit is still in effect, but I would assume so....

Mods? Is it?

Well, for all of you hoping MKULTRA was talking out of his ass (and he does it a lot, I know) he's right on this one. You can see video of it here (http://ww2.7online.com/global/video/popup/pop_index.asp?ClipID1=247870&h1=Headline&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=111867&activePane=info&playerVersion=8&rnd=51992696) from the New York ABC affiliate. The video shows a young Republican male kicking a female protestor who is on the ground and then when he is confronted and told they have video footage of him doing it, has no real answer. He's a classy guy.

Well, for all of you hoping MKULTRA was talking out of his ass (and he does it a lot, I know) he's right on this one. You can see video of it here (http://ww2.7online.com/global/video/popup/pop_index.asp?ClipID1=247870&h1=Headline&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=111867&activePane=info&playerVersion=8&rnd=51992696) from the New York ABC affiliate. The video shows a young Republican male kicking a female protestor who is on the ground and then when he is confronted and told they have video footage of him doing it, has no real answer. He's a classy guy.

Thanks for the link. That's seriously screwed up.

America under Bush: Life, liberty, and the pursuit of wealth...but only for our guys!!!

One question, though, to anyone who wants to claim that this one Young Republican is representative of the entire party: Are you also prepared to admit that the ACTUP protester charged with assault is representative of the Democrats?

That's the part of the story you won't hear from DemocracyNow.org.

So...
That guy represents all Conservativs.
Stalin represents all Liberals.
Fair, no?

never forget who CNN had cover the democractic convention, RALPH REED!!! (not even foxnews went this far...)

and who had Micheal Moore cover the RNC.

These Act Up Activists were uninvited. They used a ruse to gain admittance. They had no business being there. Now I agree that assaulting them is wrong but they started it and asked for it......Now flame me, lib...opps I mean progressives.

One question, though, to anyone who wants to claim that this one Young Republican is representative of the entire party: Are you also prepared to admit that the ACTUP protester charged with assault is representative of the Democrats?

That's the part of the story you won't hear from DemocracyNow.org.I don't think you'll find too many people who will argue that the punk who kicked a woman while she was lying on the floor is representative of Republicans in general, or even of the Republicans at the convention. Hell, most of the rednecks (and I use that as a term of endearment) I served beer to when I was a bartender in Louisiana were Republicans, and they'd have beaten the shit out of anyone kicking a woman period, much less one on the floor.

And the activists are also not typical--they're activists. That doesn't mean that they deserve to be abused by punk ass bitches. They got arrested--that was supposed to happen.

So...
That guy represents all Conservativs.
Stalin represents all Liberals.
Fair, no?

When this is your idea of fair, you must agree that Hitler, Pinochet, Poll pot, Ben Laden, Mao are representing the conservativs since they also oppressed all freedoms but their owns. :rolleyes:

Yep - AIDS is all Bush's fault. What a bastard. It is his responsibility to stop people from scewing each other like rabbits with no protection.
Well, when free condoms are offered in Africa, but certain right-wing organisations (the Catholic church to name but one) campaign against condom wearing, you get the impression that maybe, just maybe, right-wingers in the west have some influence on the situation.

I wish it was true.
Lemme just get this straight, you wish that an accusation of members of the Republican party assaulting members of group exercising their first amendment rights is true?

Well, when free condoms are offered in Africa, but certain right-wing organisations (the Catholic church to name but one) campaign against condom wearing, you get the impression that maybe, just maybe, right-wingers in the west have some influence on the situation.


You know what if your dumb enough to risk and cant keep it in your pants you deserve to die.

You know if i lived in a country that had an hiv/aids rate of 30% I wouldnt go on a date without a hazmat suit much less screw some random prostitutes.

I don't think you'll find too many people who will argue that the punk who kicked a woman while she was lying on the floor is representative of Republicans in general, or even of the Republicans at the convention. Hell, most of the rednecks (and I use that as a term of endearment) I served beer to when I was a bartender in Louisiana were Republicans, and they'd have beaten the shit out of anyone kicking a woman period, much less one on the floor.

And the activists are also not typical--they're activists. That doesn't mean that they deserve to be abused by punk ass bitches. They got arrested--that was supposed to happen.

Agreed. I was mostly responding to MKULTRA's baseless claims that Bush and his Evil Republican Conspiracy of DOOM!™ are behind this.

Well, MKULTRA has never been what anyone would call level-headed. That said, I hope the woman who was kicked tracks down the punk who kicked her and sues the ever-loving shit out of him.

yes it has a radical truth bias--your unfamiliar with that cause the lies of the corporate pig media has numbed your senses with their irrelevant obsessions on Scott peterson and kobe bryant type of distractions
WOW! Now I see why you cut n paste from (radically biased) websites rather than post your own thoughts....

Because you are OFF THE CHARTS on the loopy scale! This prooves it!

So tell me, what works better, round or pointy tin-foil hats?

Yep - AIDS is all Bush's fault. What a bastard. It is his responsibility to stop people from scewing each other like rabbits with no protection.
it wasnt about AIDs it was about the deficit

Well, for all of you hoping MKULTRA was talking out of his ass (and he does it a lot, I know) he's right on this one. You can see video of it here (http://ww2.7online.com/global/video/popup/pop_index.asp?ClipID1=247870&h1=Headline&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=111867&activePane=info&playerVersion=8&rnd=51992696) from the New York ABC affiliate. The video shows a young Republican male kicking a female protestor who is on the ground and then when he is confronted and told they have video footage of him doing it, has no real answer. He's a classy guy.
the protesters need to sue the RNC for assault and sue the secret service for false arrest and have a class action lawsuit against the NYPD for chemical poisoning and unconstitutional sweeps--we can sue for our Democracy back

One question, though, to anyone who wants to claim that this one Young Republican is representative of the entire party: Are you also prepared to admit that the ACTUP protester charged with assault is representative of the Democrats?

That's the part of the story you won't hear from DemocracyNow.org.
but its the protesters who were the only ones assaulted and then falsely charged with it

So...
That guy represents all Conservativs.
Stalin represents all Liberals.
Fair, no?
Stalin was a rightwinger

Boo Hoo. Protestors tick me off so much. Real political activism would be all those people working to fundraise. Running a commercial or two. Speaking at a forum. Having a political rally. That would convince so many more minds then they are convincing now by running around like headless chickens fighting with the cops. Screaming. Crying. Pounding. Very babyish and not appealing. They should clean up their act and try to make a real difference instead of just finding news ways to vent anger.

Well, when free condoms are offered in Africa, but certain right-wing organisations (the Catholic church to name but one) campaign against condom wearing, you get the impression that maybe, just maybe, right-wingers in the west have some influence on the situation.
Bush appointed all these christian wack jobs that would rather people die of aids then have access to condoms and birth control

You know what if your dumb enough to risk and cant keep it in your pants you deserve to die.

You know if i lived in a country that had an hiv/aids rate of 30% I wouldnt go on a date without a hazmat suit much less screw some random prostitutes.
But the issue is that christian fundies are with holding life saving protections against the spread of STDs cause they want to kill people who have sex outside of marriage

the protesters need to sue the RNC for assault and sue the secret service for false arrest and have a class action lawsuit against the NYPD for chemical poisoning and unconstitutional sweeps--we can sue for our Democracy back

No. The one or two protesters who were actually assaulted need to sue the specific perpetrators. The RNC is in no way liable for the actions of some idiot kid. You've been unable to satisfactorily prove your other charges.

but its the protesters who were the only ones assaulted and then falsely charged with it

Witnesses at the convention say otherwise, MK. Unless, of course, you're continuing your usual "debate" tactics and only accepting the testimony of one side's witnesses.

No. The one or two protesters who were actually assaulted need to sue the specific perpetrators. The RNC is in no way liable for the actions of some idiot kid. You've been unable to satisfactorily prove your other charges.



Witnesses at the convention say otherwise, MK. Unless, of course, you're continuing your usual "debate" tactics and only accepting the testimony of one side's witnesses.
those are what you call biased witnesses--convention goers will lie to defend other republicans

MKULTRA needs to talk to my father ( assistant u.s. marshall NYPD). It would be enlightening. He has a different view of the protests.

MKULTRA needs to talk to my father ( assistant u.s. marshall NYPD). It would be enlightening. He has a different view of the protests.
your father is a biased witness. Cops perjure themselves in court everyday in defense of other cops they know commit brutality cause cops are stuck in an Us VS them mentality. Id love to see the NYPD treat its OWN cops protesting Bloomberg for a pay raise as harshly as they abuse other protesters so they can get a taste of their own medicine.

those are what you call biased witnesses--convention goers will lie to defend other republicans

Are you suggesting that protesters wouldn't lie to defend other protesters, when they can rarely be counted on even to give an accurate count of protesters at a march?

Are you suggesting that protesters wouldn't lie to defend other protesters, when they can rarely be counted on even to give an accurate count of protesters at a march?
its the NYPD that deliberately undercounts the amount of people at protests--the protesters numbers may be slightly inflated but is usally far closer to the real number then the cops extreme undercounts. Anyone just looking at pics of demonstrations can see that.

its the NYPD that deliberately undercounts the amount of people at protests--the protesters numbers may be slightly inflated but is usally far closer to the real number then the cops extreme undercounts. Anyone just looking at pics of demonstrations can see that.

You didn't answer my question, so I'll repeat it. Protesters across the nation regularly inflate their own numbers. Do you believe people who do this are incapable of lying to protect their fellow protesters??

You didn't answer my question, so I'll repeat it. Protesters across the nation regularly inflate their own numbers. Do you believe people who do this are incapable of lying to protect their fellow protesters??
yes- I suppose they are even capable of lying as much as cops :)

yes- I suppose they are even capable of lying as much as cops :)

And yet you insist that we should throw out any testimony that says that a protester assaulted a conventiongoer, because the protesters say it didn't happen.

Simply amazing.

And yet you insist that we should throw out any testimony that says that a protester assaulted a conventiongoer, because the protesters say it didn't happen.

Simply amazing.According to the news report on that link, there's a difference of opinion. The convention goer witness says his friend got punched, the protestor says the guy accidentally caught an elbow. In a crowd like that, who can tell what's going on--either could easily have happened.

The guy kicking the woman who was on the floor, though--that's on tape, and why that guy didn't get arrested is beyond me. And yes, I'd say that if it happened at the Democratic convention as well--you just don't kick a defenseless person.

According to the news report on that link, there's a difference of opinion. The convention goer witness says his friend got punched, the protestor says the guy accidentally caught an elbow. In a crowd like that, who can tell what's going on--either could easily have happened.

Right. It may be that what happened was an accident, and that nothing about it justifies a conviction. However, I'd the seriousness of the charge and the fact that there are witnesses warrants holding the protester in question until the facts are determined.

The guy kicking the woman who was on the floor, though--that's on tape, and why that guy didn't get arrested is beyond me. And yes, I'd say that if it happened at the Democratic convention as well--you just don't kick a defenseless person.

No argument here. That pisses me off as much as anyone, with the possible exception of the girl who got kicked. I imagine she's far more pissed than I am.

Update on this story: Patriotboy (http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2004_09_01_patriotboy_archive.html#109451325217047800) has tentatively identified the dude doing the kicking as Deryk Schlesinger, son of uber-moralist and all around pain in the ass "Dr. Laura" Schlesinger. God, that would be perfect if it ends up being true.
Here are the two pics he's using to make the id.
Republican ass-monkey
http://webpages.charter.net/micah/prideofthernc.jpg

Child of Dr. Laura
http://www.hillsdale.edu/collegian/127_20/news/hookah.jpg

That's a hell of a hookah there. Wonder if he smokes tobacco in that thing? Wonder what his mom thinks about that?

Anyway, it's only a potential identification, but it would be funny if it turns out to be him.

Protesters across the nation regularly inflate their own numbers.

only on crowds of more than 10,000. and that's because nobody has a good idea exactly what 50,000 people look like, especially from ground level.

unless you are talking about the stalinists in answer (i believe they've claimed numbers in excess of a million for several things). they're just stupid, and trying to be the vanguard that leads the masses, even if the masses are only in their heads.

though nothing will ever beat this associated press report a couple of years back that talked about "hundreds of protestors" at a protest that had 45,000 - 50,000 according to the police.

though nothing will ever beat this associated press report a couple of years back that talked about "hundreds of protestors" at a protest that had 45,000 - 50,000 according to the police.
What about the Million Man March which park officials estimated at around 100k or so? Pretty sure they got sued for defamation or slander or some such too.

What about the Million Man March which park officials estimated at around 100k or so? Pretty sure they got sued for defamation or slander or some such too.


Yah, Ive seen what a million people all in one place looks like.
Back when the Detroit Red Wings won the Stanley Cup for the first time in fifty years.
There was one million people in downtown detroit for the ensuing celebration, and parades.

It was a human sea of red and white jerseys.

Amazing in a way, to see.

What about the Million Man March which park officials estimated at around 100k or so? Pretty sure they got sued for defamation or slander or some such too.

and that is why the dc park officials no longer give out any estimates at all for anything, even if there are only 4 people there. and the dc cops make sure to say that these are 'unofficial estimates' whenever they give numbers.