NationStates Jolt Archive

I keep hearing "you Americans should get off of your 2 party system" but haven't heard an alternative. Which countries out there have more than 2 main parties. When I say main, I mean that they get around a 3rd of the vote if there are 3 parties, a 4th if there are 4, etc. I also want to know what those parties are. I don't mean parties that have no chance like all but the Republican and Democratic parties in America. People say that the Republicans and Democrats are completely opposit and extreme left or right. I disagree. I think they're the most moderate two parties in the US and that's why they win. They seem totally different but the general idea is the same. Greens are extreme tree people(I didn't know how else to put it). I can't figure out what the Liberatarians are all about. Then you get into the really small ones like the Communist party and the Fascist party. Any ideas would be appreciated. This thread is intended for lists of countries and parties, not really discussion. That's probably not going to help because everything usually degenerates into a flame war.

The problem is that it's difficult for true third parties to raise money in the U.S. and the two major parties aren't willing to split because it would mean sacrificing influence. Think of the two parties as many smaller parties always working together under the same name. The effect is basically the same.

Libertarians are social liberals and fiscal conservatives who want smaller government and more personal and economic freedom for the people.

http://www.libertarianism.com

The Libertarian party is the most easy to understand of all American third parties; They are for a non-government-regulated market like the Republicans, economically unfettered opposed to government subsidies, welfare and taxation for government programmes. And they are for personal civil freedoms like the Democrats; freedom of artistic expression beyond specific 'values,' pro-choice, pro-legalization of substances and victimless crimes, for scientific research of all kinds, etc.

In other words, libertarians take the good stuff from both of the two major parties, and leave out all the crap. They deserve more recognition in this country.

I keep hearing "you Americans should get off of your 2 party system" but haven't heard an alternative. Which countries out there have more than 2 main parties. When I say main, I mean that they get around a 3rd of the vote if there are 3 parties, a 4th if there are 4, etc. I also want to know what those parties are. I don't mean parties that have no chance like all but the Republican and Democratic parties in America. People say that the Republicans and Democrats are completely opposit and extreme left or right. I disagree. I think they're the most moderate two parties in the US and that's why they win. They seem totally different but the general idea is the same. Greens are extreme tree people(I didn't know how else to put it). I can't figure out what the Liberatarians are all about. Then you get into the really small ones like the Communist party and the Fascist party. Any ideas would be appreciated. This thread is intended for lists of countries and parties, not really discussion. That's probably not going to help because everything usually degenerates into a flame war.

France is sort of a multi-party system. It's literally true: they have a four party system, and use a two-round majority vote for their presidential elections and some of their legislative elections. Their parties are the Gaulists (Re-esablishment of the Republic party), the Democrat-republicans, the Socialists, and the Communists. However, their political system is essentially a two-party system, with the Socialists and Communists on one side and the Gaulists and Democrat-Republicans on the other. Sure, each party disagrees with the other three, but when it comes down to cold hard elections, it basically boils down to left-wing parties vs. right-wing parties.

I can't think of a good example of one, but multi-party countries use a wonderful system called PR: Proportional Representation. In America, you have one vote of several candiates (sure, only two are important, but still...). One candiate gets 55% of the vote and wins 100% of the election - regardless of the position he/she was running for. This is called a plurality first-past-the-post system.

In PR, if you recieve 55% of the vote, you get roughly 55% of the seats. 20% and you get 20%. This way, minor parties get minor representation while major parties get the majority of the vote without absolutely dominating the government. This is only effective in elections with multiple seats available - like the Senate. In a Presidential election (or any other election with one seat available), PR's advantages aren't very useful. Nevertheless, it's a system highly respected in European elections.

In Ireland we have Proportional Representation and several major parties.

The Presidential election is by popular vote of the people.

In Ireland we have Proportional Representation and several major parties.

The Presidential election is by popular vote of the people.

Ah, and your PR encourages sincere voting, does it not?

Well in New Zealand, we have 2 'main' parties (labour and national) but the green, ACT, NZ first, Maori, United future and Jim Andertons progressive coalition parties, as well as an independant (who was chucked from the ACT party a few months back) all have some of the 120 seats in parliment.

Here in Sweden we have a multi-party system.

Since the last Riksdag election in 2002, the following 7 parties are represented in the parliament:

Party, Percentage of votes, Riksdag seats

SAP (http://www.sap.se/) (Social Democrats), 39,8%, 146
Moderaterna (http://www.moderat.se/index.asp?mainid=6&subid=66) (the moderates - conservatives), 15,2%, 60
Folkpartiet (http://www.folkpartiet.se/templates/AreaContentPage____2609.aspx) (Peoples' Party - liberal (in the European sense of the word, ie centre-right), 13,3%, 52
Kristdemokraterna (http://int.kristdemokrat.se/list_his.asp?id=1) (Christian democrats), 9,1%, 37
Vänsterpartiet (http://www.vansterpartiet.se/PUB_Material/5641.cs) (Left party), 8,3%, 37
Centerpartiet (http://www.centerpartiet.se/templates/Infosida____17232.asp) (centre party), 6,1%, 28
Miljöpartiet (http://www.mp.se/engelska.asp) (greens), 4,6%, 17

Other parties received 3,1% of the voting but not enough to get a seat. 80,1% of the voters voted (turnout).

I keep hearing "you Americans should get off of your 2 party system" but haven't heard an alternative. Which countries out there have more than 2 main parties. When I say main, I mean that they get around a 3rd of the vote if there are 3 parties, a 4th if there are 4, etc. I also want to know what those parties are. I don't mean parties that have no chance like all but the Republican and Democratic parties in America. People say that the Republicans and Democrats are completely opposit and extreme left or right. I disagree. I think they're the most moderate two parties in the US and that's why they win. They seem totally different but the general idea is the same. Greens are extreme tree people(I didn't know how else to put it). I can't figure out what the Liberatarians are all about. Then you get into the really small ones like the Communist party and the Fascist party. Any ideas would be appreciated. This thread is intended for lists of countries and parties, not really discussion. That's probably not going to help because everything usually degenerates into a flame war.
As far as I remember Denmark used to have a solid 5 party system. I saw used to, because in the 70s this became a 10-party system over night.

In Flanders (the northern part of Belgium) we also have a multi-party system.

Sp.a (socialistische partij anders/alternatief - socialists)
Groen! (greens)
VLD (Vlaamse Liberalen en Democraten - liberals)
CD&V (Christen-democratisch en Vlaams - catholics, conservative)
Vlaams Blok (fascists, racists, you know, that kinda crap)

We now have a coalition of the sp.a, cd&v and vld.

I know in England, there are The Labor, and The Conservatives (Tories), and the Liberal Democrats (LibDems, in times past The Whigs). I think the latter is considered more of a third party, but do not think it's as far removed as the third parties are here in America. Maybe someone from the UK would know. There is also the Monster Raving Loony party, which we don't have anything like in the US, even in the smallest third parties.

I know in England, there are The Labor, and The Conservatives (Tories), and the Liberal Democrats (LibDems, in times past The Whigs). I think the latter is considered more of a third party, but do not think it's as far removed as the third parties are here in America. Maybe someone from the UK would know. There is also the Monster Raving Loony party, which we don't have anything like in the US, even in the smallest third parties.
Britain is definately a two party system. However, maybe in the Election after the next one this will change.

Britain is definately a two party system. However, maybe in the Election after the next one this will change.

I would say that this is true at a natonal level in GB, but it has local parliaments/assemblies in Skotland and Wales that have multi-party systems, eg i think there is a coaltion government in Scotland.
Do any British think that their national parliament will ever go along this route?

Britain is definately a two party system. However, maybe in the Election after the next one this will change.

In the Scottish parliament, which is elected by a sort of ersatz proportional representation (true PR has not yet been implemented because the Labour turkeys have not yet been forced to vote for Christmas) there are four main and some minor parties. Labour is the largest party with 50 seats (32% of the vote, 39% of the seats, followed by the SNP with 27 (22% of the vote, 21% of the seats), the Conservatives with 18 (16% of the vote, 14% of the seats), the Liberal Democrats with 17 (13% and 13%), the Green party with 7 (6% and 5.4%), the Scottish Socialist party with 6 (6% and 4.6%) and 4 more-or-less independents with 6% of the vote and 3.3% of the seats.

No single party has a majority (there are 129 seats, so a party would need a minimum of 65 MSPs), but Labour and the Lib Dems have formed an alliance. The LDs are strongly in favour of real (or at least more accurate) PR, but both labour and the Tories are opposed to it as they feel it would thrreaten the current Westminster system which guarantees them big majorities with only around 40% of the vote.

Multi-party democracy is a good idea, but it requires proportional representation to make it work. Both Labour and Tory politicians oppose it in the UK becuse they say it's "too complicated". Presumably they think that British voters are stupider than Irish ones, or French, or German, or practically every other European nation. Of course, the fact that we've sat on our duffs and accepted the status quo for so long may indicate that they are right...

Wow, someone who actually wants to DO something about the third party problem. Well, first of all I think it would be benificial for the democrats and republicans to start funding the hard right and left to drain votes from their opponents. It's a brilliant strategy, and encourages more groups, moving up groups like the Green Party, Libertarians and some of the right wing groups (sorry, raised Democrat and don't know what the heck they are).

I personally thought it would be good to start a Christian party in the US. I already have some local support, but considering my future profession, it seems pretty non-doable. Maybe I could get something started before I head out...

Anyway, it would require the undermining of both the Republican and Democratic parties simultaniously so that poeple wouldn't become instantly afraid that their "views" would not be represented (like they are now, heh).

-Fury

like the Green Party, Libertarians and some of the right wing groups (sorry, raised Democrat and don't know what the heck they are).

Many would say the Libertarians are 'Right-wing.' However most involved in the party itself insist it's neither left nor right, simply because it tends away from establishing a system (it's, as they say, " Minarchist ")

I think drafting party constitutions for each party that the parties themselves have to adhere to when or if given a position of power would help the factor of fear in the people trusting a new party. Constitutions that reflect that party doctrine and are subject to nothing else (excepting of course the established constitutions with jurisprudence over the office held by party official), which if violated would make that party lose it's seat/position/etc.

Well...The thing with the main political parties in US, is exacly their modesty. Both the Republicans and Democrats are exacly the same thing.Neither black or white, just grey. They have even the same name! (Democrats from the greek word democracy and Republicans from the latin word republic wich means again democracy!). And when you choose to be grey its much easier to gather votes. Because the things you say are so general that cover everyone.Especially in US where the educational level of common people is low enough to trick them with nice words.But when you actually have something different and important to say it is difficult to cover it up using nice words. How can you put the frase "The most killings in US happen because the weapons are legal" nicely? Or how can you put the "The sons of US people is beeing killed somewhere in the word for oilwells" nicely?
The worst of all is that the style of the political US system is expanding in Europe too, having as a result the spoilment of the very own word democracy. There is no democracy when you listen only two opinions, it is democracy when you listen Everybody's opinion equaly.

In Finland 9 parties (as always) got parliamentary seats in the 2003 elections. 200 seats up for grabs:

Center 55
Social Democrats 53
Nat. Coalition (the right) 40
Leftist coalition 19
The Green party 14
Swedish People's party 8
Christian Democrats 7
True Finns (read: looneys) 3
Island of Åland 1

I think you could say there are 5 major parties (or at least ones with sufficient relevance). The government coalition they were able to form consists of Center, SDP, and SPP (55+53+8=116 seats - - 133 = 2/3 majority needed if they want to change the constitution somehow). The possible government coalitions aren't carved in stone here; the National Coalition and the Social Democrats have formed one with the Leftist Coalition of all people. In American terms that's like the far right wing of the Republican party sided with the moderates to govern with the communists.

Germany has a multi party system.
Mainly centered around the SPD (Social Democrats), CDU/CSU(Christian Democrats), FDP (Liberals) and the Green Party. There are others as well. Like the PDS. The PDS is the new name for the old SED. The former ruling party of East Germany. But they don't play a role of any significance on a nation wide level. They are however getting pretty high scores in state elections in the the former DDR.

There is also the Monster Raving Loony party
The Official Monster Raving Loony Party

In Scotland we have a multi-party system:

Labour: 50
Scottish National Party: 25
Conservative: 18
Liberal Democrat: 17
Scottish Green Party: 7
Scottish Socialist Party: 6
Scottish Senior Citizens Unity Party : 1
Independents: 4

Total Seats: 129
majority required for government: 65

I just want to say that while I don't know much about any foreign parties, I feel a bit eerie comparing them. Every time I look, I find a party named:
Christian Democrats
Christian Socialists
The People's Liberation Front
The Alliance for Unity
Conservatives
Greens
Liberals
New Democrats

Occaisonally, I see one or two that are unique to the country, but otherwise, every party must be rather uncreative with names. Even our two parties have cliches for names.

I know in England, there are The Labor, and The Conservatives (Tories), and the Liberal Democrats (LibDems, in times past The Whigs). I think the latter is considered more of a third party, but do not think it's as far removed as the third parties are here in America. Maybe someone from the UK would know. There is also the Monster Raving Loony party, which we don't have anything like in the US, even in the smallest third parties.
Don't be so sure. There's one party that rejects capitalism, communism, and socialism as economic policies (what's left?). A bigger one in 2000 was the Natural Law party, whose chairman is a former cult leader. While they are now defunct, they've turned their attention to some international government they're trying to build in New York.

France is sort of a multi-party system. It's literally true: they have a four party system, and use a two-round majority vote for their presidential elections and some of their legislative elections. Their parties are the Gaulists (Re-esablishment of the Republic party), the Democrat-republicans, the Socialists, and the Communists. However, their political system is essentially a two-party system, with the Socialists and Communists on one side and the Gaulists and Democrat-Republicans on the other. Sure, each party disagrees with the other three, but when it comes down to cold hard elections, it basically boils down to left-wing parties vs. right-wing parties.

I can't think of a good example of one, but multi-party countries use a wonderful system called PR: Proportional Representation. In America, you have one vote of several candiates (sure, only two are important, but still...). One candiate gets 55% of the vote and wins 100% of the election - regardless of the position he/she was running for. This is called a plurality first-past-the-post system.

In PR, if you recieve 55% of the vote, you get roughly 55% of the seats. 20% and you get 20%. This way, minor parties get minor representation while major parties get the majority of the vote without absolutely dominating the government. This is only effective in elections with multiple seats available - like the Senate. In a Presidential election (or any other election with one seat available), PR's advantages aren't very useful. Nevertheless, it's a system highly respected in European elections.Not exactly true. Remember the last elections?

Actually, most of european countries have a multi-party system and proportional representation of the parties.

In France :

UMP (moderate right) : 19
PS (socialists) : 17
FN (far right) : 17
UDF (christian right) : ~10
Greens (left greens) : ~9 or 10
PC (communists) : ~8 or 9
FO ( communist trotskists ) : ~4
LCR (revolutionary communists) : ~2
MNR (far right) : ~2
Ecolo (right greens) : ~1

...

Then we have all the joke parties like the party for the hunters, the pleasure party, the void party (really it's literally called the void party).

...I see one or two that are unique to the country, but otherwise, every party must be rather uncreative with names. Even our two parties have cliches for names.

Well, what do you expect? They are political parties! Here's few examples of parties I would like to see (with their slogans):

The Private Party... No comment.
The Search Party... Looking for members.
The Gay/NRA Party... We're here, we're queer. YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT?
The Mouth Party... And you're invited to cum.

I keep hearing "you Americans should get off of your 2 party system" but haven't heard an alternative. Which countries out there have more than 2 main parties. When I say main, I mean that they get around a 3rd of the vote if there are 3 parties, a 4th if there are 4, etc.
When you say 'main party' I think you are assuming that all political systems work as they do in the states. In my country we have MMP which is a portional (ie every vote is of equal value) system. Because the party with the largest number of Members of Parliment does not have a majority, the whole 'main party' thing is a lot more complicated. Usually all parties have some political power because no one party can get legislation passed, ergo parties that wish to pass legislation (including the 'party of government') must cooperate with other parties.

Here in Sweden we have a multi-party system.

Since the last Riksdag election in 2002, the following 7 parties are represented in the parliament:

Party, Percentage of votes, Riksdag seats

SAP (http://www.sap.se/) (Social Democrats), 39,8%, 146
Moderaterna (http://www.moderat.se/index.asp?mainid=6&subid=66) (the moderates - conservatives), 15,2%, 60
Folkpartiet (http://www.folkpartiet.se/templates/AreaContentPage____2609.aspx) (Peoples' Party - liberal (in the European sense of the word, ie centre-right), 13,3%, 52
Kristdemokraterna (http://int.kristdemokrat.se/list_his.asp?id=1) (Christian democrats), 9,1%, 37
Vänsterpartiet (http://www.vansterpartiet.se/PUB_Material/5641.cs) (Left party), 8,3%, 37
Centerpartiet (http://www.centerpartiet.se/templates/Infosida____17232.asp) (centre party), 6,1%, 28
Miljöpartiet (http://www.mp.se/engelska.asp) (greens), 4,6%, 17

Other parties received 3,1% of the voting but not enough to get a seat. 80,1% of the voters voted (turnout).

Quoted for something.

The Dutch Socialist Party (SP, not PvdA who are centrists) used to be a Maoistic Party WHAHAHAHA

SPD (social democrats) 38.5% 251 (direct mandates: 171)
CDU (christian democrats/conservative) 29.5% 190 (82)
CSU 9.0% (christian social union/bavarian conservatives) 58 (43)
(CDU/CSU form one parlamentarian group: 248 seats)
Greens 8.6% 55 (1)
FDP (economic liberals) 7.4% 47 (0)
PDS (east german communists) 4.0% 2 (2)
Others 3,0% 0 (0)

Seats: 603 (302 chancellor majority)
SPD-Greens 306
CDU/CSU-FDP 295
Others: 2

Parties have representation in parliament if they get more than 5% of the (second) votes or three direct mandates (via the first vote - relative majority in the constituancy). Half of the seats are elected via the constituencies, the other half via state party lists (in any of the 16 states).
The number of seats (almost) soley depends on the second vote (party vote). The first vote mainly enshures the regional representation.
And it can make a difference if a party fails on the 5% barrier but may have regional strongholds which allows it to get over the so-called "basic mandate clause" (3 or more direct mandates).
The communists felt short to that with 2 direct mandates. The third constituency they hoped for went to a left-wing green politican (Ströbele).
Ironically one of the staunchest critics of the green party leadership and of the government policy from the left enshured with his victory over the communists candidate that they weren´t able to get around the 5%-barrier via the basic-mandate clause: Without that there wouldn´t have been a red-green majority but most likely a great coalition government (SPD, CDU/CSU).

Canada is also multi-party.

Our political parties, (or at least the well-known ones) are:

NDP, Jack Layton (New Democrat Party) - socialist, left-wing
Bloc Quebec, Gilles Ducieppe - the national separatist party (just don't ask)
New Conservatives, Stephan Harper - EEWW!! Canadian Republicans! :eek:; former Reform Party/Alliance
Liberals, Paul Martin - centre-to-left-wing
PC (Progressive Conservatives) - the original conservative party (see Tories)

At the time of the Weimar Republic (1919-33) there was a left-liberal party that called itself DDP (German Democratic Party). I think there is a small irrelevant party that calls it the same way to day.
And there is an more extreme right-wing party that is calling themself Republikaner (Repbublicans). Though they can´t be compared to the Republicans in the US.