NationStates Jolt Archive

This thread is where we can offer our condolences for the Russians following the recent Beslan atrocity in which 200 people were killed.

This event surely shows that the path of violence by both sides of the Chechnya war cannot work. Peaceful resolution of the conflict is the only way forward. Human life is too valuable to continue the murder.

http://www.iol.ie/~roto/siljhouettes-sig.jpg [pseudonym]

http://img77.exs.cx/img77/6324/Concept.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v194/Foxxinnia/signature.gif

My condolenses to not just those Russians in the crossfire these past couple of weeks, but every Russian that lives in the fear and wrath of the Chechens. The Russians' main problem is that they are conducting this war poorly. They prefer air and sea bombardment to urban combat. This may save them some casualties, but it serves only to turn these Chechens into terrorists even more. What they need is outside military aid. The US is only doing a bare minimum service by training the Georgian police force. We spend $400 billion on our military, excluding the costs of military operations. The Russians spend a total of just $60 billion. Can't we just spend a few extra billion to have the Russians stop using outdated equipment and undertrained soldiers? It'd go far to rooting al-Qaeda out of Russia, and reintergrate the Chechen Republic.

To MSN subscribers: put the (F) emoticon in front of your user names to memoralise the poor children that suffered such brutality. But no fear, because they are all in God's arms right now.

To MSN subscribers: put the (F) emoticon in front of your user names to memoralise the poor children that suffered such brutality. But no fear, because they are all in God's arms right now.
Yes they are.

yeah

My condolenses to not just those Russians in the crossfire these past couple of weeks, but every Russian that lives in the fear and wrath of the Chechens. The Russians' main problem is that they are conducting this war poorly. They prefer air and sea bombardment to urban combat. This may save them some casualties, but it serves only to turn these Chechens into terrorists even more. What they need is outside military aid. The US is only doing a bare minimum service by training the Georgian police force. We spend $400 billion on our military, excluding the costs of military operations. The Russians spend a total of just $60 billion. Can't we just spend a few extra billion to have the Russians stop using outdated equipment and undertrained soldiers? It'd go far to rooting al-Qaeda out of Russia, and reintergrate the Chechen Republic.
Sure, fight the war better. That's a good way to stop the killing. How about respecting that they don't want to be part of Russia? Russia is reaping what it sowed. It's just typical that children are made to pay for the crimes of their govt, a sad day for all.

Definetly I offer my condolenses to those who lost loved ones and I have to say these chechens who did this are sick bastards plain and simple they are moral cowards killing innocent children who's only crime was living under the russian governments power. I think it best to let them suceed myself and would then guard the border and keep an eye on them and such a war is not always or a stepping up of war is not always the best way to go

To MSN subscribers: put the (F) emoticon in front of your user names to memoralise the poor children that suffered such brutality. But no fear, because they are all in God's arms right now.

Yes

And may god have the wisdom to bring the Russians and the Chechens together for peaceful resolutions and may he give fortitiude to both sides so they may endure these tragedies.

I would like to offer my condolences to anyone who has been affected by the recent events in Ossetia.

This may sound insensitive, but I would also like to point out that the Chechen rebels are not simply pure evil. Suggesting this would be to dehumanise them. They are humans who have deliberately and without mercy killed hundreds of innocent people and are therefore responsible for their actions and their consequences.
Although it is easy to blame Russian politicians for their lack of foresight, the police for not being quick enough etc,etc, it is ultimately the actions of these individuals that should be blamed for this tragedy.

This tragedy may serve to remind us that the whole world is in this war against terror together.

Sure, fight the war better. That's a good way to stop the killing. How about respecting that they don't want to be part of Russia? Russia is reaping what it sowed. It's just typical that children are made to pay for the crimes of their govt, a sad day for all.
Because a seperate Chechnya is a dangerous Chechnya. For one, it's broad acsess to terrorist networks, especially al-Qaeda, make a heavily armed Chechnya all the more likely. For another, the Chechens will halt intergration that the rest of Russia is pursuing. It is bringing the rest of Russia up to the exclusive class once enjoyed only by the US and Western Europe: an absense of great power wars, relative stability, and a rapidly expanding economy. For better understanding of what I mean, I recommend the book The Pentagon's New Map by Prof. Thomas Barnett.

Yes, my heart really goes out to those parents and to Russia. My husband and I were talking about it last night and we are of the mind that in many ways this was worse then 9/11, because they were 90% children. Also the death count is rising it will be much higher then 200 when all is said and done. It's so sad :(

You know, the more I read that book I mention, the more I feel that this guy is a strategic genius. Okay, so you guys probably won't like him. He'll instantly get the label of neocon. But here's the thing: he's a liberal.
http://www.thomaspmbarnett.com/weblog/archives/000767.html
In this, he's giving a brief snipet on why Russia will now be forced to join the War on Terror, and become a much bigger player in security issues. But that won't be a bad thing.

Russia will now be forced to join the War on Terror

Umm, in case you were unaware, Russia is already in on the war on terror so is almost every country I know of. It's not the war on terror that the world had a problem with. Most of us agree with it. It was the war on Iraq that a lot of the world has a problem with. They are not the same thing no matter how many times Bush & Cheney try to say it is.

This thread is where we can offer our condolences for the Russians following the recent Beslan atrocity in which 200 people were killed.

This event surely shows that the path of violence by both sides of the Chechnya war cannot work. Peaceful resolution of the conflict is the only way forward. Human life is too valuable to continue the murder.

---The Liberal Unitary Republic of Goobergunchia---
Founder, Democratic Underground region
Nasicournian Citizen
Councillor of the Red Liberty Alliance
Member of the Alliance Defense Network Military
Temporary Chairman of the Convention on the League of NationStates

Words cannot express.

Spoffin

Umm, in case you were unaware, Russia is already in on the war on terror so is almost every country I know of. It's not the war on terror that the world had a problem with. Most of us agree with it. It was the war on Iraq that a lot of the world has a problem with. They are not the same thing no matter how many times Bush & Cheney try to say it is.
I didn't mean the fact that every country goes around making arrests, nor did I mean military intervention. I meant refitting their foreign policy primarily for this cause. Russia should use its weight on countries like Iran. It has relatively warm relations with Russia at current. Russia should use their weight to kindly say, "Iran, stop harboring terrorists, and please join us...or else." The US did that with Pakistan, and now, they are the most pivotal ally in the GWOT. I'm talking about things like that, not even military operations. The current government in Moscow acts like the US did not even a decade ago: terrorists are a few kooks that are in need of some serious babysitting. Now they have to realize that their problem is far beyond Chechnya, as well as in its borders. But hey, I also think that the world hasn't been paying enough attention to Chechnya. I would love it if NATO could send a division there to asist the Russians, and with these string of attacks, that is closer to reality.

Umm, in case you were unaware, Russia is already in on the war on terror so is almost every country I know of. It's not the war on terror that the world had a problem with. Most of us agree with it. It was the war on Iraq that a lot of the world has a problem with. They are not the same thing no matter how many times Bush & Cheney try to say it is.

The war on terror is global wide. Russia and France are now facing the threats and challenges that the US and Israel have had to deal with. France even went so far as to publically question why militant groups would target them as they had not supported the US and other countries in the coalition of the willing. As for Iraq, the world does not have a problem with us. France, Germany, and Russia are the ones who opposed taking out Saddam and blocked UN support. Since then it's been discovered that they were reaping million, perhaps billions, of dollars in trade in violation of the food for oil embargo. Over 30 countries are assisting in the work over there. Civilians and military in the Phillipines have been protesting their government's refusal to let them go back to Iraq. The countries in Eastern Europe who have been released from behind the iron curtain, largely in thanks to the efforts of the US, are in total support. No, the WORLD is not questioning our actions.

Those who are opposed to our actions, I just have this to say. There is a militant, Muslem faction that is spreading its tentacles throughout the world. They're not interested in peaceful resolution. They've made it clear they want a Muslem fundamentalist government throughout the world. They hate democracy, equal rights, opportunity for all, Christians, Jews, Budhists, and everything that free nations value. They breed hate and barbaric, unthinking violence. They have said they will use any means necessary to kill whomever doesn't believe as they do. They have declared war. 9/11 was a wake up call for the US. Thank God we have a president who will go after these sociopaths BEFORE they attack us again.

Today we are all Russians :(

This atrocity will never be forgotten... These were dark days for mankind...

Amerigo.

Zooke - The world is united including France & Russia in the war on terror. The war in Iraq is not the war on terror it never was. It's a bill of goods the American government tried to sell to the world. They've been exposed for the lies or haven't you been paying attention?

I have already said what I feel about this atrocity, and I will say it agin, what those people where thinking of attacking and taking hostage school children, we'll never know. It was just evil.

Russia has had it's 9/11, except this time children where targeted, a sad sad day for all of us.

I offer my condolences those families who lost loved ones in this tragedy

Zooke - The world is united including France & Russia in the war on terror. The war in Iraq is not the war on terror it never was. It's a bill of goods the American government tried to sell to the world. They've been exposed for the lies or haven't you been paying attention?
That was a great mistake of the US. It was a beautiful work of art, but no one understood it. It wasn't about WMDs. It wasn't about the brutal dictator. It wasn't even about oil. It was about building the model. Should Iraq become a free, and perhaps one day, a democratic nation, it'll serve as a model. It'll become just as rich as its Persian Gulf neighbors, but the populace will be more educated, and the society will be more advanced. The Persian Gulf states only have money, but very little else of a successful state.
Iraq has what it takes to succeed: the Middle East's largest class, a market tradition, and a multiethnic population that coexists. Best yet, it has oil. Now in many resource-rich states, they are corrupted. However, they have no outside help.Iraq does. Now in the first few years, maybe even a decade, it should be messy. But hey, the German occupation was also extremely messy. Remember the "wolfpacks"? They were SS members far worse to the occupation forces in Germany than the current resistance can dream of. They managed to blow up power plants, factories, banks, even overrun troop positions. Obviously, however, they are defeated. The Iraqi insurgency will meet a similar fate. And in ten years, Iraq will do more for the GWOT than any other nations can ever hope to achieve.
The problem is that the wrong message was sent. The Bush Administration, but also Congress, feels that the world is stuck in Cold War mode. However, if we said from the beginning that our main goal was to establish a liberal democracy in the Middle East, and explain how it could work, then I'm sure most of the world would support us. After all, the world had to go to the natural conclusion that the war was about oil, and while you may be proven right, it blocks out any further debate on this war, other than between the WMD crowd and the oil crowd.

JETS TO BRAZIL

What those bastard chechens did was a horrible thing, and i feel so bad for those poor innocent children.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/05/international/europe/05russia.html
It's not the change in policy I'm looking for, but it is a start. The Kremlin is realizing that this issue stretches beyond their borders, or even the former Soviet Union.

That was a great mistake of the US. It was a beautiful work of art, but no one understood it. It wasn't about WMDs. It wasn't about the brutal dictator. It wasn't even about oil. It was about building the model. Should Iraq become a free, and perhaps one day, a democratic nation, it'll serve as a model. It'll become just as rich as its Persian Gulf neighbors, but the populace will be more educated, and the society will be more advanced. The Persian Gulf states only have money, but very little else of a successful state.
Iraq has what it takes to succeed: the Middle East's largest class, a market tradition, and a multiethnic population that coexists. Best yet, it has oil. Now in many resource-rich states, they are corrupted. However, they have no outside help.Iraq does. Now in the first few years, maybe even a decade, it should be messy. But hey, the German occupation was also extremely messy. Remember the "wolfpacks"? They were SS members far worse to the occupation forces in Germany than the current resistance can dream of. They managed to blow up power plants, factories, banks, even overrun troop positions. Obviously, however, they are defeated. The Iraqi insurgency will meet a similar fate. And in ten years, Iraq will do more for the GWOT than any other nations can ever hope to achieve.
The problem is that the wrong message was sent. The Bush Administration, but also Congress, feels that the world is stuck in Cold War mode. However, if we said from the beginning that our main goal was to establish a liberal democracy in the Middle East, and explain how it could work, then I'm sure most of the world would support us. After all, the world had to go to the natural conclusion that the war was about oil, and while you may be proven right, it blocks out any further debate on this war, other than between the WMD crowd and the oil crowd.Nonono. They wanted whatever they wanted, and then looked for a good way to sell it. WMDs and links to terror to begin with. Then a regional security problem. Then saving the people of Iraq. Then freedom and democracy as a model to the world. None of them are the real reason, simply for the fact that none of them have ever been consistant.

Guys, as a representative of the Russian community on NationStates, can I beg you to move your debates about international terrorism and such into some other thread?

I am very touched by all those who expressed their condoleances, but I really do not think this thread is the right place for a flame on the subject of international terrorism.

Thank you.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/Namellar/beslan.jpg

Guys, as a representative of the Russian community on NationStates, can I beg you to move your debates about international terrorism and such into some other thread?

I am very touched by all those who expressed their condoleances, but I really do not think this thread is the right place for a flame on the subject of international terrorism.

Thank you.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/Namellar/beslan.jpg
Hear hear!

Guys, as a representative of the Russian community on NationStates, can I beg you to move your debates about international terrorism and such into some other thread?

I am very touched by all those who expressed their condoleances, but I really do not think this thread is the right place for a flame on the subject of international terrorism.

Thank you.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/Namellar/beslan.jpg
Absolutely. I apologise.

Absolutely. I apologise.

Ditto!

Guys, as a representative of the Russian community on NationStates, can I beg you to move your debates about international terrorism and such into some other thread?

I am very touched by all those who expressed their condoleances, but I really do not think this thread is the right place for a flame on the subject of international terrorism.

Thank you.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/Namellar/beslan.jpg

You are so right. Please accept my apologies. Also, please accept my thoughts and prayers. I'll kiss my grandchildren twice whenever I see them... once for me and once for those who lost their children.

Nonono. They wanted whatever they wanted, and then looked for a good way to sell it. WMDs and links to terror to begin with. Then a regional security problem. Then saving the people of Iraq. Then freedom and democracy as a model to the world. None of them are the real reason, simply for the fact that none of them have ever been consistant.
It's because no one wants to say that this is geopolicy in action. It'll bring to the Middle East democracy, the free markets, and ultimatly, peace. But it does have a nastier side: terrorists can't resist Iraq as a target. It brings the terrorists to one place, and from there, it is easier to pick them off. Should Osama bin Laden ever be captured, then for this reason, I wouldn't be surprised if he was captured in Iraq.
But anyhow, the world needs to go on a thought exercise: is it possible that the war isn't about oil or a weapons program?

I think it is horrible what has happened in Ossetien. I can not understand how anybody can use the lives of children for a political cause, however radical they may be. I watched with horror the extra tv-news reports on tv yesterday, and only today it's become clearer of the level of destruction and loss of innocent human lives.
I wish my sincerest condolencies to the Russians and especially those in the area affected.