NationStates Jolt Archive

The Support for "Israel" (Caanan) must stop. The Holy land is being run by a fake people built on an old lie. Please don't vote for support of this land while we (the true Israelites) do not control it. The land was given to us, and therefore while the Jews control it, we do not, the Israelites lost it because of our wickedness, and our enemies have cashed in on it. This so called Nation of "Israel" is not, nor will it ever be our ally.

The Support for "Israel" (Caanan) must stop. The Holy land is being run by a fake people built on an old lie. Please don't vote for support of this land while we (the true Israelites) do not control it. The land was given to us, and therefore while the Jews control it, we do not, the Israelites lost it because of our wickedness, and our enemies have cashed in on it. This so called Nation of "Israel" is not, nor will it ever be our ally.
bullshit - defend your position

And you are from where?

Weel, If you are a Palestinian, perhaps your anceastors should not have sold off their lands to the Jewish settelers early in the twentieth century, then gripe when they have no land.

The Support for "Israel" (Caanan) must stop. The Holy land is being run by a fake people built on an old lie. Please don't vote for support of this land while we (the true Israelites) do not control it. The land was given to us, and therefore while the Jews control it, we do not, the Israelites lost it because of our wickedness, and our enemies have cashed in on it. This so called Nation of "Israel" is not, nor will it ever be our ally.

Ok we will take your word on that:-P

bullshit - defend your position

Modern state of Israel - counterfiet Sons of Esau-Rev3:9

-Snif- Ick

Yep we have a troll.

-Snif- Ick

Yep we have a troll.

Gee, great comeback.

Weel, If you are a Palestinian, perhaps your anceastors should not have sold off their lands to the Jewish settelers early in the twentieth century, then gripe when they have no land.

I am not a Palestinians, they are just as bad as the Jews. I am a Anglo-Israelite, one of the true descendants of Israel.

I am not a Palestinians, they are just as bad as the Jews. I am a Anglo-Israelite, one of the true descendants of Israel.

Are you from the group that says the hebrews in the bible were white people?
I cannot remember the name of that group.

Are you from the group that says the hebrews in the bible were white people?
I cannot remember the name of that group.

Um many groups say that. However no, I do not believe the "White People" are from the Bible. I believe the Anglo-Saxons, and Celto-Saxons are. After all there are many "White people" and not all of these are the above.

There is no "White" Race, but many Races that are "White" - the Aryans for example are not White, yet many believe that they are.

Weel, If you are a Palestinian, perhaps your anceastors should not have sold off their lands to the Jewish settelers early in the twentieth century, then gripe when they have no land.
Hmn... If I recall history correctly, Palestine was part of the large amalgomantion of the Ottoman Empire, and was "freed" by the damnable English during the Great War, and then the English gave it to the Jews...officially handing it over in 1939 (I believe)

It ist interesting to see how you fools mix up things. Today's Israelis have nothing whatsoever to do with the Bible's Israelites. And Canaanites were not Hebrews nor Israelites. Instead Canaanites were Indo-Europeans (Japhites if you wish) and were settlers of Palestine long before the Hebrews (West-Semites) immigrated there from the Mesopotamian plain. And also the Hebrews were not what many think. They were not a homogeneous people but merely a loose collection of numberous tribes, that BTW were not all followers of Yahweh exclusively (only when the Hebrews reached Canaan did they merge El and Yah into one deity, back then Yah was not yet believed to be the one and only god, instead he was just one among many). And finally the Iraelites were not really Hebrews any more when they left Egypt, instead they were highly egyptianized culturally and ethnicly. And e.g. Moses had no clue about his own historical background or even the ancestral beliefs of his people, instead he had to re-learn all that form the Midianite priest of Yah, Jethro.
And finally today's Israelis are, except for a very little number of people who have lived there for the last 1500 years or so, Europeans. The bulk of Jews coming from Europe during all the first half of the 20th century came from France, Germany, Poland, Russia and the Balkan states. And the reason for this was the promise given to the Jews by the UK to open Palestine and Transjorden for Jewish settlement. Which of course violated the UK's promise given to the Arabs to let them have their own unified state after they got rid of the century-long oppression by the Turks at the end of the First World War.
My point is, that it is just idiotic to claim any land based on a belief or even historical conditions. And there is no way to change the current situation by arguing on that basis. Israel is a reality, and the aggressiveness of that state is also a reality since 1948, but the aggressiveness of the Arabs is no less a reality. And the main point is, that the poeple on the ground are sick and tried of all the fighting while their leaders still proceed with their weird policies. Maybe we will have to wait yet another generation until peace is a real option for the region.

Snip

I agree - Ariel Sharon is way too right wing for most people's tastes (tho I'm happy about his pullout I think it is politically motivated)

Please dont tell me that youre part of the world church of the creator

The name "Yahweh" was the name of the Creator. However as a mark of respect his children never called him by his name. But rather they called him Lord, and thus the true name was forgotten. I mean they knew what it was but the pronunciation was forgotten. Hence many true Israelites spell his name "YHWH"

These Israelites are found in Europe, America, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, etc and are commonly called Caucasian because of the name given to the Israelites when they were taken captive over the Caustaus Mountains.

This is nice and all learning and debating about history and such but like a lot of people we are missing the point here. The point is what do you do to fix it? The problem is that what ther are non-secular governments in that area with deep grudges against their neighbours. If the UN, for example, took over the whole area in an administrative role it could sort out the problems. Then these people would have a recourse other than war. It may not work but the point is the current setup is pretty bad.

This is just an idea, I'm sure it's gonna get torn apart but I thought I'd try to advance the topic a bit.

Austrealite, rather than acting like this, why don't you spend some time researching this fellow:

General Allenby, (Edmund Henry Hynman Allenby), 1st Viscount of Megiddo.

As this Brit has fulfilled more OT prophecies than anyone since Jesus Christ, I think you'll find him interesting. It'll also teach you a great deal about the Australian Light Horse - a unit whose glorious history is sadly ignored in this country.

Trust me, you'll find your research well rewarded.

This is nice and all learning and debating about history and such but like a lot of people we are missing the point here. The point is what do you do to fix it? The problem is that what ther are non-secular governments in that area with deep grudges against their neighbours. If the UN, for example, took over the whole area in an administrative role it could sort out the problems. Then these people would have a recourse other than war. It may not work but the point is the current setup is pretty bad.

This is just an idea, I'm sure it's gonna get torn apart but I thought I'd try to advance the topic a bit.
Your idea founders on a simple problem - both sides are deeply religious, the UN is secular.
Given that both sides are religious, a religious solution is called for. Now, if Judaism and Islam were unrelated, this would be difficult - fortunately that's not the case. Both are montheistic, and their histories refer to each other. To the best of my knowledge Jews accept the Arab claim to be descended from Ishamel, and the Muslims happily accept the OT Prophets as being sent by God.
How does this help?
Well, Muslims believe that both Jewish and Christian scriptures are from God – they just believe that the scriptures have since been corrupted. So since both sides consider them important they are a logical place to start.

Consider the Dome of the Rock. Even the most reasonable Muslim is going to be narked at the idea of it being bulldozed to make way for the 3rd Temple. Fortunately, if you turn to Ezekiel chapter 48 you will find that the 3rd temple will be built well to the north of Jerusalem – so there is no reason to endanger the Dome. But how many Muslims (or Jews, for that matter) are aware of this? Again, Jordan is going to be less than impressed with Jewish radicals wanting to reclaim the old lands of Dan – the same chapter of Ezekiel puts the Eastern border of the re-established state of Israel on the Jordan river, so the state of Jordan is safe: something that is sure to please the inhabitants.
There are numerous prophecies concerning the states that border Israel, and they’re not all about smiting. Somewhere there’s a description of God adopting Syria and Egypt, so that they along with Israel are treated as his children. Again I suspect those peoples would be interested – if they knew.

It's not a total solution, but it might be a good place to start.

The name "Yahweh" was the name of the Creator. However as a mark of respect his children never called him by his name. But rather they called him Lord, and thus the true name was forgotten. I mean they knew what it was but the pronunciation was forgotten. Hence many true Israelites spell his name "YHWH"

These Israelites are found in Europe, America, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, etc and are commonly called Caucasian because of the name given to the Israelites when they were taken captive over the Caustaus Mountains.
Actually the Caucasian thing comes from the Caucusus mountains in the old USSR somewhere.

I'm interested to know what the 'religious' beliefs of True Israelites are. But there are probably better threads for that.

I think America only support Israel because they know that it would crumble if they didn't. Maybe humanitarian, maybe misguided denial of survival of the fittest. Maybe they're waiting for oil to be found in Tel-Aviv.

I agree, the origional argument has been distorted. The history of who are the deserving inhabitants of the holy land doesn't matter to the US. The US supports the current state of Israel for purely secular reasons.

Snip:
I think America only support Israel because they know that it would crumble if they didn't. Maybe humanitarian, maybe misguided denial of survival of the fittest. Maybe they're waiting for oil to be found in Tel-Aviv.Your thoughts. My thoughts are we ally Israel to keep them in check. Without a check and balance in place, Israel would be putting the smack down on them again.

The name "Yahweh" was the name of the Creator. However as a mark of respect his children never called him by his name. But rather they called him Lord, and thus the true name was forgotten. I mean they knew what it was but the pronunciation was forgotten. Hence many true Israelites spell his name "YHWH"

No, the "true name" of Judaism's god is still respected today, and is the name which is written into the Torah. Jews never say it because they consider it too holy for the mortal tongue, instead filling in "Adonai" (a word which, on a minor note, is of a female conjugation). Perhaps if you idiots who throw the word around like you do had ever actually spoken to a reall rabbi about it instead of doing your own haphazard research (or worse, listening to your local clerics) you would know that.



Ankher, could you tell me where your got that stuff? Sounds a bit interesting.

My thoughts are we ally Israel to keep them in check. Without a check and balance in place, Israel would be putting the smack down on them again.
Would they? Or would they suddenly find themselves a lone non-moslem country in a very hostile environment.
Some Tanks and Gunships beat a few scared Palestinian civilians. Yes
Some Tanks and Gunships beat Iran, Syria, etc etc. No. Maybe a sizeable dent but no.

Ankher:
My point is, that it is just idiotic to claim any land based on a belief or even historical conditions. And there is no way to change the current situation by arguing on that basis.

I think you got a good point there. We should think in terms of individuals, not 'nations'. The average israeli nowadays is born in israel. In 1948 israeli's commited a crime by forcing the palestines off their land, but the average israeli has nothing to do with that. You can't blame past mistakes of a people on the individual's living in the region right now. It's the same as blaming northern-irish people for invading ireland in the 19th century or so.

A solution? Fight the colonists, fight the suicide bombers and leave the normal people alone. Maybe the UN should play a role in this.

Btw i'm ignoring the whole 'anglo-israelite' thing, it sounds like bullshit.

The Support for "Israel" (Caanan) must stop. The Holy land is being run by a fake people built on an old lie. Please don't vote for support of this land while we (the true Israelites) do not control it. The land was given to us, and therefore while the Jews control it, we do not, the Israelites lost it because of our wickedness, and our enemies have cashed in on it. This so called Nation of "Israel" is not, nor will it ever be our ally.

so what are you suggesting? that we dismantle israel and leave it to the palestinians? what is it that you WANT?

Your idea founders on a simple problem - both sides are deeply religious, the UN is secular.
Given that both sides are religious, a religious solution is called for. Now, if Judaism and Islam were unrelated, this would be difficult - fortunately that's not the case. Both are montheistic, and their histories refer to each other. To the best of my knowledge Jews accept the Arab claim to be descended from Ishamel, and the Muslims happily accept the OT Prophets as being sent by God.
How does this help?
Well, Muslims believe that both Jewish and Christian scriptures are from God – they just believe that the scriptures have since been corrupted. So since both sides consider them important they are a logical place to start.

Consider the Dome of the Rock. Even the most reasonable Muslim is going to be narked at the idea of it being bulldozed to make way for the 3rd Temple. Fortunately, if you turn to Ezekiel chapter 48 you will find that the 3rd temple will be built well to the north of Jerusalem – so there is no reason to endanger the Dome. But how many Muslims (or Jews, for that matter) are aware of this? Again, Jordan is going to be less than impressed with Jewish radicals wanting to reclaim the old lands of Dan – the same chapter of Ezekiel puts the Eastern border of the re-established state of Israel on the Jordan river, so the state of Jordan is safe: something that is sure to please the inhabitants.
There are numerous prophecies concerning the states that border Israel, and they’re not all about smiting. Somewhere there’s a description of God adopting Syria and Egypt, so that they along with Israel are treated as his children. Again I suspect those peoples would be interested – if they knew.

It's not a total solution, but it might be a good place to start.

What you have just said equates Palestinian radicals with Israeli radicals. Palestinian radicals believe blowing themselves up along with murdering hundreds of Jews is the "right" thing. Israeli radicals believe that they have every right to inhabit the land. That is not called radicalism, that is called a belief.

I don't know how you can equate murder with that. It's a double standard.

i don't agree with you on israeli radicals (=settlers). They are prolonging this conflict just as much as the suicide bombers. Israel should retreat behind it's borders (lets say the '67 lines), and leave the settlers behind. It may sound hard, but i dont care when those settlers get murdered.

i don't agree with you on israeli radicals (=settlers). They are prolonging this conflict just as much as the suicide bombers. Israel should retreat behind it's borders (lets say the '67 lines), and leave the settlers behind. It may sound hard, but i dont care when those settlers get murdered.

Ehud Barak offered most of the West Bank after the Camp David peace conference to Arafat, but Arafat declined.

Arafat doesn't want the west bank...he doesn't want the Jews to be there at all. Period. Is that right?

The Holy Land; the worlds largest open air lunatic asylum and ironically the site of the greatest number of evil actions per square meter.

The Holy Land; the worlds largest open air lunatic asylum and ironically the site of the greatest number of evil actions per square meter.

You betcha.

Yes, both Israel and the Palistinians are in the wrong, and most of the US sees that, even though the US media primarily reports on all the wrongs done by the Palistinians (probably because the news media here is simply interested in ratings, and ratings will be higher when international news can represent the fears of everday americans ...in this case, the terrorism seen in the suicide bombers). The US will continue to support Israel whether it's right or wrong (although the /current/ president has made huge strides imho by promising a Palestinian state) for mostly political reasons (it would be political suicide /not/ to support Israel in this country) which are based on hundreds of differing views.

But hand over Israel to another group that has some kind of historical right to it? You've got to be kidding. While we're at it, let's give Britain back to the Picts, the US back to the Indians, Australia to the Aboriginies, remove all european influence from Africa and return to the north-south tribal structure, stop South America from speaking Spanish and find some incan and aztec descendants to hand it back to, separate China into about 20 separate nations, and continue to fragment Russia. :rolleyes: Not a chance.

But guess what? Israel is a parliamentary democracy. If your group is so gung-ho about reclaiming it, then there exists the option of living there, becoming a political group, and if your ideas can sway the votors (usually if there's some merit to it) over time, you /can/ control Israel. Good luck.

What you have just said equates Palestinian radicals with Israeli radicals. Palestinian radicals believe blowing themselves up along with murdering hundreds of Jews is the "right" thing. Israeli radicals believe that they have every right to inhabit the land. That is not called radicalism, that is called a belief.

I don't know how you can equate murder with that. It's a double standard.
Uh-huh. And just when did I say that?

Meanwhile, let's dismantle your assertions.

"Israeli radicals believe that they have the right to occupy the land." Well yes, but that's hardly what makes them radical, is it? Unless you believe that every Israeli is a radical, yes? Or do you think that the majority of Israelis secretly belief that they're squatters?

As for double-standards - they requre making a value judgement, which I was very careful not to do here. My concern was to use OT prophecy as a tool for promoting peace in the region. Or do you think that persuading would-be 'murderers' to instead live in peace is somehow criminal?

Would they? Or would they suddenly find themselves a lone non-moslem country in a very hostile environment.
Some Tanks and Gunships beat a few scared Palestinian civilians. Yes
Some Tanks and Gunships beat Iran, Syria, etc etc. No. Maybe a sizeable dent but no.
Umm - you are aware that they have repeatedly done so in the past?

Compromise makes the world go round. WOuldn't kill you to share.

The Support for "Israel" (Caanan) must stop. The Holy land is being run by a fake people built on an old lie. Please don't vote for support of this land while we (the true Israelites) do not control it. The land was given to us, and therefore while the Jews control it, we do not, the Israelites lost it because of our wickedness, and our enemies have cashed in on it. This so called Nation of "Israel" is not, nor will it ever be our ally.
Hmm something struck me:
Austrealite, you believe that the British Crown is the true successor to the Davidic Kings, yes? As part of your belief that Anglo-Saxons are the true Israelites?

Israel, and for that matter Palestine, were established by *Britain*, by the decision of the *British* Parliament which means that the legislation must have been signed by the *British* monarch.

So if you're right, both Israelis and Palestinians are there by permission of the rightful monarch of the region, and have self-government due to the Crown's pleasure. THEY THEREFORE BOTH HAVE A RIGHT TO BE THERE!

Modern state of Israel - counterfiet Sons of Esau-Rev3:9

That's a statement, genius, not an argument, nor a proof.

What you have just said equates Palestinian radicals with Israeli radicals. Palestinian radicals believe blowing themselves up along with murdering hundreds of Jews is the "right" thing. Israeli radicals believe that they have every right to inhabit the land. That is not called radicalism, that is called a belief.

I don't know how you can equate murder with that. It's a double standard.

Except that you're ignoring the Jewish radicals that have been involved in terror against Palestinians. There is a definite culture of violence that is, if not inherent to the settler mentality, at least tacitly approved and not confronted by its leadership.

How about Meir Kahane? His beliefs were outright quasi-fascist, andhe had NO problem using violence to get his way. How many people associated with him have engaged in violence against Palestinian lives or property? Hundreds, maybe thousands. Where have they drawn the line? Women and children? Please. Noam Federman was caught planting a bomb in front of a PALESTINIAN GIRL'S SCHOOL in Jerusalem.

There might be an issue of scale and proportionality when comparing Jewish radicals to Palestinian ones, but in terms of IDEAS, the two groups are eerily similar.

It ist interesting to see how you fools mix up things. Today's Israelis have nothing whatsoever to do with the Bible's Israelites. And Canaanites were not Hebrews nor Israelites. Instead Canaanites were Indo-Europeans (Japhites if you wish) and were settlers of Palestine long before the Hebrews (West-Semites) immigrated there from the Mesopotamian plain. And also the Hebrews were not what many think. They were not a homogeneous people but merely a loose collection of numberous tribes, that BTW were not all followers of Yahweh exclusively (only when the Hebrews reached Canaan did they merge El and Yah into one deity, back then Yah was not yet believed to be the one and only god, instead he was just one among many). And finally the Iraelites were not really Hebrews any more when they left Egypt, instead they were highly egyptianized culturally and ethnicly. And e.g. Moses had no clue about his own historical background or even the ancestral beliefs of his people, instead he had to re-learn all that form the Midianite priest of Yah, Jethro.
And finally today's Israelis are, except for a very little number of people who have lived there for the last 1500 years or so, Europeans. The bulk of Jews coming from Europe during all the first half of the 20th century came from France, Germany, Poland, Russia and the Balkan states. And the reason for this was the promise given to the Jews by the UK to open Palestine and Transjorden for Jewish settlement. Which of course violated the UK's promise given to the Arabs to let them have their own unified state after they got rid of the century-long oppression by the Turks at the end of the First World War.
My point is, that it is just idiotic to claim any land based on a belief or even historical conditions. And there is no way to change the current situation by arguing on that basis. Israel is a reality, and the aggressiveness of that state is also a reality since 1948, but the aggressiveness of the Arabs is no less a reality. And the main point is, that the poeple on the ground are sick and tried of all the fighting while their leaders still proceed with their weird policies. Maybe we will have to wait yet another generation until peace is a real option for the region.



/nod



The sad part is, despite all radical or reasonable arguments, there is no easy solution to this problem. One side feels they have been displaced, and rightly so. The other side feels they have been given their holy land back, after years and years of displacment and 'hounding'.
Who's right? Both...sorta. So...who's the wise man/woman who can easily reckon this muddle out?

Not I, I can't claim the wisdom to do so. I guess that really is the sad part...how do you make a judgement or try and heal a riff, when you've no idea who's side to take?

Umm - you are aware that they have repeatedly done so in the past?
Mate, Israel hasn't fought a war on its own against anything more than a farmer waving a stick since.. a long time. It's repelled a couple of forays by Arafat and others but not a whole lot else. And all the while it's been supported by US military advisors and supplies.

Still going with the oil discovery in Tel-Aviv's main square.

Austrealite, is it not the case that the Canaanites were the multitude of races that inhabited the land of Canaan before the Israelites arrived from Egypt. Said Israelites then proceeded to wipe them all out (in a holy way, of course) and settle there, on both sides of the Jordan. As for the numerous tribes of Israel, they all originate from one family so they are kind of homogeneous, homo meaning same and geneous meaning family (loose translation). They just evolved, for want of a better word, into 11 tribes and two splinter tribes from Joseph's lot.

Is the original Canaan still the area known today as Israel? (that was a real question, I don't know the answer, which would seem to be relevant).

Actually I know jack about this whole thing apart from a related novel I read years ago and some modern history.

Yes they did fight wars on their own, that was then when they realied on us for military supplies. Now Israel has developed its own fighter Jets and the Mekelav tank is definetly not american. If the Arabs states ganged up on Israel you would probably see wholesale slaughter that we haven't seen since WWII on both sides. The Arabs know this, thats why they gave up after '73 on taking Israel over militarily, it just doesn't work. That and all of the Muslim nations in the world spend more time fighting each other and their own radical insurgencies to deal with ganging up on Israel. Sorry the muslim world uniting to destroy Israel is not going to happen. Even with a cut-off of US supplies it'd take a hell of a lot to conquer them considering what they have.


we aren't holding out on finding oil in Tel-Aviv, that may be the reason we support other(probably worse) regimes in the region but not Israel. The large Jewish population in the United States, that has considerable political sway may have something to do with it. That and we gave them our best tech in the 50's, 60's,70's and 80's to balance out the Soviet Support of other Arab Nations. Plus we wanted to see how our best faired against the Russian best.


That and through everything we have done, Israel is one of the few nations that has always supported us. So there is the whole loyalty issue as well

Just nuke both countries into oblivion, that'll solve the problems of the entire area.

Just nuke both countries into oblivion, that'll solve the problems of the entire area.


which two countries, Palestine isn't technically a state yet. Working on it yes, accomplished it no.

my actually important topic about te supreme court and the election dies and all this other asinine crap stays on the first page? i hate you all -_-

Israel needs to defend itself from terrorists attacking them. The way they handle it isn't very good, launching rockets that hit innocents. But you can't put these both in the same category. Palestinian terrorists sole purpose is to kill innocents, Israel is just doing it from stupidity. Regardless, America needs to support Israel or we will lose our only true ally in the Middle East, with the Saudis being really unreliable.

The Israelis will one day grow so tired of the attacks that they will push the Palestinians into the river Jordan and be done with them. What amazes me is that the Palestinians are being used by their Arab "brothers" as surrogate soldiers to fight Israel for them and they do not see that. Iran cannot attack Israel on it's own, but they can pay the Palestinians to die for the "cause."

The Israelis will one day grow so tired of the attacks that they will push the Palestinians into the river Jordan and be done with them. What amazes me is that the Palestinians are being used by their Arab "brothers" as surrogate soldiers to fight Israel for them and they do not see that. Iran cannot attack Israel on it's own, but they can pay the Palestinians to die for the "cause."

World opinion will come down so hard on Israel that they would regret even contemplating such an action. If Europe turns an economic blind eye to Israel that would certainly be quite bad to it's economy. Even the U.S. would have to reconsider its arrangement in that situation. Besides, if anything will unite the Muslim world fully against Israel would be something like that. Last thing the world needs is another Yom Kippur war.

World opinion will come down so hard on Israel that they would regret even contemplating such an action. If Europe turns an economic blind eye to Israel that would certainly be quite bad to it's economy. Even the U.S. would have to reconsider its arrangement in that situation. Besides, if anything will unite the Muslim world fully against Israel would be something like that. Last thing the world needs is another Yom Kippur war.

Really? World opinion is already so down on Israel. How many UN resolutions have already been passed condemning them? I doubt things would change.

Really? World opinion is already so down on Israel. How many UN resolutions have already been passed condemning them? I doubt things would change.

Displacing the Palestinians would be a bit different than the current situation. Maybe they (Israel) should just go ahead and build a giant wall between them. Solution?

Displacing the Palestinians would be a bit different than the current situation. Maybe they (Israel) should just go ahead and build a giant wall between them. Solution?

They ARE building a giant wall...and the UN has passed a resolution against them for doing that. No matter what they do the UN and the world will come down on them, so why not take the Palestinians out?

Um many groups say that. However no, I do not believe the "White People" are from the Bible. I believe the Anglo-Saxons, and Celto-Saxons are. After all there are many "White people" and not all of these are the above.

There is no "White" Race, but many Races that are "White" - the Aryans for example are not White, yet many believe that they are.

what the hell is an anglo-celt? never heard that one before.

And of course Aryan's are not white. you cannot give a liguistic group racial characteristics

Hmm something struck me:
Austrealite, you believe that the British Crown is the true successor to the Davidic Kings, yes? As part of your belief that Anglo-Saxons are the true Israelites?

Israel, and for that matter Palestine, were established by *Britain*, by the decision of the *British* Parliament which means that the legislation must have been signed by the *British* monarch.

So if you're right, both Israelis and Palestinians are there by permission of the rightful monarch of the region, and have self-government due to the Crown's pleasure. THEY THEREFORE BOTH HAVE A RIGHT TO BE THERE!

I want to see someone answer this.

The Support for "Israel" (Caanan) must stop. The Holy land is being run by a fake people built on an old lie. Please don't vote for support of this land while we (the true Israelites) do not control it. The land was given to us, and therefore while the Jews control it, we do not, the Israelites lost it because of our wickedness, and our enemies have cashed in on it. This so called Nation of "Israel" is not, nor will it ever be our ally.

I have repeatedly asked you to supply proof of your claims, to which you have replied that you are growing tired of "this kind of argument" ...the kind where proof is required, I guess.

Please, put the fuck up or shut the fuck up.

The Support for "Israel" (Caanan) must stop. The Holy land is being run by a fake people built on an old lie. Please don't vote for support of this land while we (the true Israelites) do not control it. The land was given to us, and therefore while the Jews control it, we do not, the Israelites lost it because of our wickedness, and our enemies have cashed in on it. This so called Nation of "Israel" is not, nor will it ever be our ally.

First of all it's Cnaan, not Caanan.
Second, I must remind you as I have to remind too many people lately, Judaism is a religion. You can be Anglo-Saxon and Jewish with no contradiction, therefore you might find some Jewish so-called "Israelites" in the state of Israel.
Third, for crying out loud, is that the best reason you can find for claiming America is being played for a fool?

First of all, Israel has every right to protect itself from terrorists. As for this wall, a few days ago an EU rep from the Middle East said it was working.

Secondly, for all those comparing Jewish radicals and Palestinian radicals...I don't see any Israeli schoolbooks teaching hatred. Yes, there are lunatics wherever you go, but it is common for a Palestinian to be considered "radical". Of course I'm not saying all Palestinians are radical, but the ideology that they are raised by is.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=1314

I think that article clears up the difference.

Originally Posted by The Holy Palatinate
Hmm something struck me:
Austrealite, you believe that the British Crown is the true successor to the Davidic Kings, yes? As part of your belief that Anglo-Saxons are the true Israelites?

Israel, and for that matter Palestine, were established by *Britain*, by the decision of the *British* Parliament which means that the legislation must have been signed by the *British* monarch.

So if you're right, both Israelis and Palestinians are there by permission of the rightful monarch of the region, and have self-government due to the Crown's pleasure. THEY THEREFORE BOTH HAVE A RIGHT TO BE THERE
Daroth: I want to see someone answer this.

Well it's.. err.. because of the.. the ah... thingy with... nope, lost it.

Aryans are considered to be white with blond hair and blue eyes because a race with predominantly these features were originally from an area around what used to be called Aryan(? Aryus, Arian, something like that) Mountains in Germany. N'est ce pas? ( I KNOW it's french!! I'm being pretentious)

But definitely not a bunch of KKK-loving Americans with short tempers and big guns.

Angles, Saxons, Celts, forgot the other one, various races which make up the indigenous (don't shoot me, I'm being vague) British people. Indigenous from about 9th, 10th century at least. Before the damn Normans and the arrow in the eye, 1066 and all that.

Some Tanks and Gunships beat Iran, Syria, etc etc. No. Maybe a sizeable dent but no.

It's been done before.

It's been done before.
No, really hasn't, not on Israel's lonesome. That's where the US support has come in. Advisors, supplies. How do you think Israel has been able to design and build its own tanks and planes? Wailing Wall tax?

Following on from my facetious oil bit, where does Israel get its oil from (real question)?

The Support for "Israel" (Caanan) must stop. The Holy land is being run by a fake people built on an old lie. Please don't vote for support of this land while we (the true Israelites) do not control it. The land was given to us, and therefore while the Jews control it, we do not, the Israelites lost it because of our wickedness, and our enemies have cashed in on it. This so called Nation of "Israel" is not, nor will it ever be our ally.
This guy is obviously a Christian or Jewish fundamentalist, or something, with little connection to reality.

No, really hasn't, not on Israel's lonesome. That's where the US support has come in. Advisors, supplies. How do you think Israel has been able to design and build its own tanks and planes? Wailing Wall tax?

Following on from my facetious oil bit, where does Israel get its oil from (real question)?


or sending students abroad to foreign colleges to learn Engineering and stuff like that, oh and funding it with a Technology industry along with Tourism

Well it's.. err.. because of the.. the ah... thingy with... nope, lost it.

Aryans are considered to be white with blond hair and blue eyes because a race with predominantly these features were originally from an area around what used to be called Aryan(? Aryus, Arian, something like that) Mountains in Germany. N'est ce pas? ( I KNOW it's french!! I'm being pretentious)

But definitely not a bunch of KKK-loving Americans with short tempers and big guns.

Angles, Saxons, Celts, forgot the other one, various races which make up the indigenous (don't shoot me, I'm being vague) British people. Indigenous from about 9th, 10th century at least. Before the damn Normans and the arrow in the eye, 1066 and all that.


actually the Aryans were a race of people that originated in modern day pakistan, they eventualled merged in with the Indians

First of all, Israel has every right to protect itself from terrorists. As for this wall, a few days ago an EU rep from the Middle East said it was working.

Secondly, for all those comparing Jewish radicals and Palestinian radicals...I don't see any Israeli schoolbooks teaching hatred. Yes, there are lunatics wherever you go, but it is common for a Palestinian to be considered "radical". Of course I'm not saying all Palestinians are radical, but the ideology that they are raised by is.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=1314

I think that article clears up the difference.

I can certainly agree that the ideological differences between Israel and Palestine are different. While there may be some, there aren't that many who call for the extermination of all Arabs unlike Palestinians who would love to destroy anyone Jewish. No mobs of Israelites chanting "Death to Palestine!" Pretty juvenile anyway, jumping about shoutins "DIE! DIE! DIE!" I can pretty much guess that most Israelis on their part simply don't care what happens to the Palestinians. If the terrorism stops and Israel doesn't have to give up the West Bank or anywhere else, I doubt that anyone would give another thought to the people right down the road.

actually the Aryans were a race of people that originated in modern day pakistan, they eventualled merged in with the Indians
Still not a bunch of deep south rednecks with more guns than braincells

Still not a bunch of deep south rednecks with more guns than braincells


thats the stereotype, unfortunetly They are a lot more prevalent up north.

I can certainly agree that the ideological differences between Israel and Palestine are different. While there may be some, there aren't that many who call for the extermination of all Arabs unlike Palestinians who would love to destroy anyone Jewish. No mobs of Israelites chanting "Death to Palestine!" Pretty juvenile anyway, jumping about shoutins "DIE! DIE! DIE!" I can pretty much guess that most Israelis on their part simply don't care what happens to the Palestinians. If the terrorism stops and Israel doesn't have to give up the West Bank or anywhere else, I doubt that anyone would give another thought to the people right down the road.

THANK YOU! FINALLY!

I can certainly agree that the ideological differences between Israel and Palestine are different. While there may be some, there aren't that many who call for the extermination of all Arabs unlike Palestinians who would love to destroy anyone Jewish. No mobs of Israelites chanting "Death to Palestine!" Pretty juvenile anyway, jumping about shoutins "DIE! DIE! DIE!" I can pretty much guess that most Israelis on their part simply don't care what happens to the Palestinians. If the terrorism stops and Israel doesn't have to give up the West Bank or anywhere else, I doubt that anyone would give another thought to the people right down the road.

Actually, you're only partially right. The activity you described DOES occur among the radical settlers in Gaza and the West Bank. The difference is that such behavior is restricted to a minority- a vocal one, to be sure, but one that is generally clearly separated and ostracized from mainstream Israeli public opinion. THAT is the difference. Not every Palestinian is a member of Hamas, but no one seems willing to stand up and SAY that they disagree with them, so Hamas, et al become de facto spokespeople for all Palestinians. The result is that you have a society where the most visible people engage in and support terrorism, with invisible dissenters.

Israel, on the other hand, is full of people who disagree with each other, on almost every issue, and aren't afraid to say so publicly.

The settlers' ideology and actions are generally not supported by anyone outside their own movements, and their more extreme behavior tends to be outright condemned by certain groups in Israeli society.

That's the difference. Standing up and making it clear that "we don't believe in X", that "these people don't speak for us, they are a minority". That's what's missing among the Palestinians. I don't blame them for it, per se, because Hamas & co are dangerous and violent, so it makes sense people wouldn't want to oppose them. But that passivity to extremism is a major part of this divide, and it's something that's going to have to change.

Actually, you're only partially right. The activity you described DOES occur among the radical settlers in Gaza and the West Bank. The difference is that such behavior is restricted to a minority- a vocal one, to be sure, but one that is generally clearly separated and ostracized from mainstream Israeli public opinion. THAT is the difference. Not every Palestinian is a member of Hamas, but no one seems willing to stand up and SAY that they disagree with them, so Hamas, et al become de facto spokespeople for all Palestinians. The result is that you have a society where the most visible people engage in and support terrorism, with invisible dissenters.

Israel, on the other hand, is full of people who disagree with each other, on almost every issue, and aren't afraid to say so publicly.

The settlers' ideology and actions are generally not supported by anyone outside their own movements, and their more extreme behavior tends to be outright condemned by certain groups in Israeli society.

That's the difference. Standing up and making it clear that "we don't believe in X", that "these people don't speak for us, they are a minority". That's what's missing among the Palestinians. I don't blame them for it, per se, because Hamas & co are dangerous and violent, so it makes sense people wouldn't want to oppose them. But that passivity to extremism is a major part of this divide, and it's something that's going to have to change.

Wasn't the intifada dangerous and violent? And since when are Arabs a minority?

Wasn't the intifada dangerous and violent? And since when are Arabs a minority?

I don't understand your questions, can you rephrase them?

I don't understand your questions, can you rephrase them?

You are saying that Hamas is so dangerous that the Palestinians are afraid to speak out...but what about the Intifada? The Intifada was an Israeli thing and people weren't "afraid" to speak out. And as for Palestinians being the minority...Most Palestinians are the rejects from every other Arab country that wouldn't take them in. And how come they only wanted a state after the European Jews came in? The LEAST thing Israel could do was build a freaking wall. Where do you live? If people decided to blow themselves up in your country would your government try to get that organization?

Face it. Arafat is a terrorist. This has less to do with the wall and more to do with hatred against Jews. You say Palestinians are being persecuted...by having to wait at checkpoints? For a very good reason! You don't see Israeli schoolbooks telling children that it is their duty to kill Palestinians...

You are saying that Hamas is so dangerous that the Palestinians are afraid to speak out...but what about the Intifada? The Intifada was an Israeli thing and people weren't "afraid" to speak out.

How was the Intifada an "Israeli thing"? :confused: And what "people" are you talking about?

And as for Palestinians being the minority

I never said the Palestinians were "the minority"- and furthermore, the minority of what? I was talking about Israelis and Palestinians distancing THEMSELVES from extremists in THEIR OWN communities, and saying that people that engage in violence and believe in an "all or nothing" aproach to the conflict are minorities, which I happen to believe. I'm unclear how you got such a bizarre misunderstanding of my comments.

Face it. Arafat is a terrorist.

I don't recall arguing otherwise. I didn't even mention Arafat in this thread.

This has less to do with the wall and more to do with hatred against Jews.

I don't recall saying anything about the wall.

You say Palestinians are being persecuted...by having to wait at checkpoints?

I don't recall saying anything about Palestinian persecution- or Israeli checkpoints.

For a very good reason! You don't see Israeli schoolbooks telling children that it is their duty to kill Palestinians...

No, but there is a belief among some Israeli sub-cultures that Arab life is less important or valid than Jewish life, and this is played out in the violent behavior of the radical settlers vis-a-vis their Palestinian neighbors.

Why don't you try actually READING my posts and determining what I believe based off of THAT, rather than attacking me for things I haven't said? You might find it slightly more productive.

thats the stereotype, unfortunetly They are a lot more prevalent up north.
Right. There was a Louis Theroux document on them I think. It was really quite scary. One of my friends pointed me at an 'Aryan' website. They actually used the word mud-blood to describe Africans. Fucking sick.

What am I talking about? Hell, I don't know. I never know what I'm talking about what makes you down there think you're so special? :D

The hell are you talking about?

Actually, you're only partially right. The activity you described DOES occur among the radical settlers in Gaza and the West Bank. The difference is that such behavior is restricted to a minority- a vocal one, to be sure, but one that is generally clearly separated and ostracized from mainstream Israeli public opinion. THAT is the difference. Not every Palestinian is a member of Hamas, but no one seems willing to stand up and SAY that they disagree with them, so Hamas, et al become de facto spokespeople for all Palestinians. The result is that you have a society where the most visible people engage in and support terrorism, with invisible dissenters.

Israel, on the other hand, is full of people who disagree with each other, on almost every issue, and aren't afraid to say so publicly.

The settlers' ideology and actions are generally not supported by anyone outside their own movements, and their more extreme behavior tends to be outright condemned by certain groups in Israeli society.

That's the difference. Standing up and making it clear that "we don't believe in X", that "these people don't speak for us, they are a minority". That's what's missing among the Palestinians. I don't blame them for it, per se, because Hamas & co are dangerous and violent, so it makes sense people wouldn't want to oppose them. But that passivity to extremism is a major part of this divide, and it's something that's going to have to change.

When Israeli citizens start going into Palestinian neighborhoods and start killing randomly then we will see a likeness between the two radical sides. I don't see Israelis as the type to blow themselves up however, and you really can't compare the military killing civilians accidently and Palestinian suicide bombers being very intentional in their murdering. Perhaps Palestinains aren't speaking up against the terrorism because they secretly support it. Ends always justify the means to alot of people and if killing Israelis can get them a country any faster, then why not? Many times it seems that Palestine doesn't want a country for opportunities to get what they want have come up and they walk away. They've become addicted to killing and wouldn't Hamas lose it's followers if Palestine wins?

When Israeli citizens start going into Palestinian neighborhoods and start killing randomly then we will see a likeness between the two radical sides.

This has been repeatedly documented. Settler attacks on Palestinians have been widespread since 1967, although the majority of attacks seem to consist of "merely" inflicting injuries and creating extensive property damage. (Observe, for instance, the settler riot in Hebron in 2002, called a "pogrom" by an Israeli govt. official.)

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/31/1027926917209.html?oneclick=true

Check B'tselem for statistics.

I don't see Israelis as the type to blow themselves up however, and you really can't compare the military killing civilians accidently and Palestinian suicide bombers being very intentional in their murdering.

I don't recall making such a comparison. However, it is undeniable that there are extremists on the Israeli side, as well. That was my only point. There is also the important and disturbing fact that a substantial portion of the military killing does not seem to be accidental.

Perhaps Palestinains aren't speaking up against the terrorism because they secretly support it. Ends always justify the means to alot of people and if killing Israelis can get them a country any faster, then why not?

Indeed, except that this strategy does not appear to have worked- and many members of the Palestinian government and intelligentsia have repeatedly said so in print.

They've become addicted to killing

I question the accuracy of this statement.

and wouldn't Hamas lose it's followers if Palestine wins?

What does this have to do with my points?

The Support for "Israel" (Caanan) must stop. The Holy land is being run by a fake people built on an old lie. Please don't vote for support of this land while we (the true Israelites) do not control it. The land was given to us, and therefore while the Jews control it, we do not, the Israelites lost it because of our wickedness, and our enemies have cashed in on it. This so called Nation of "Israel" is not, nor will it ever be our ally.


2 words

Blow me

About aryans.

Austrealite: Aryans are a lingvistic group who spread to India to Europe in the years before christ. This was discovered during the 18:th century when european traders found this"coincidence":
Three, english
Trés, french
Drei, german
Tre, nordic languages
Tria, sanskrit.
Later they found more and more similarities and fínally they had defined the aryan languages and peoples. Aryan is what Indians refer themselves to.
You say that angles, saxons and celts are Israelities, may I ask you why these people? Angles and Saxons were not distinct people separated from other germans until they came in contact with celts and franks, why am I not a descendant from the Israelits?And why are celts who had nothing in common with and didn't even live at the same places as germans descendants from Israelits? Shouldn't slavic peoples who also are european aryans be Israelits? So isn't it so that what it all comes down to is that the people who inhabited medivieal Britain are Israelits? Isn't that a bit... patriotic, it should at least ought to reflect in your valuing of these theories.
So let us now say what the true church of Identity and not what your false version says, all european aryans are Israelits.
Now we have the tradition with names. I live in Sweden and we still have the names you can find carved into runestones, Tord, Sven and Erik for example. How come that we have names we even spell as for 1000-1500 years ago in our cultural heritage but not even a single one from the Jewish time which by biblical traditions must be a maximum of 4000 years ago (I may add that names who are pre-viking, around 3-4 thousands of years ago still can be found in names of towns, why can't we find those jewish?)?

It ist interesting to see how you fools mix up things. Today's Israelis have nothing whatsoever to do with the Bible's Israelites. And Canaanites were not Hebrews nor Israelites. Instead Canaanites were Indo-Europeans (Japhites if you wish) and were settlers of Palestine long before the Hebrews (West-Semites) immigrated there from the Mesopotamian plain. And also the Hebrews were not what many think. They were not a homogeneous people but merely a loose collection of numberous tribes, that BTW were not all followers of Yahweh exclusively (only when the Hebrews reached Canaan did they merge El and Yah into one deity, back then Yah was not yet believed to be the one and only god, instead he was just one among many). And finally the Iraelites were not really Hebrews any more when they left Egypt, instead they were highly egyptianized culturally and ethnicly. And e.g. Moses had no clue about his own historical background or even the ancestral beliefs of his people, instead he had to re-learn all that form the Midianite priest of Yah, Jethro.
And finally today's Israelis are, except for a very little number of people who have lived there for the last 1500 years or so, Europeans. The bulk of Jews coming from Europe during all the first half of the 20th century came from France, Germany, Poland, Russia and the Balkan states. And the reason for this was the promise given to the Jews by the UK to open Palestine and Transjorden for Jewish settlement. Which of course violated the UK's promise given to the Arabs to let them have their own unified state after they got rid of the century-long oppression by the Turks at the end of the First World War.
My point is, that it is just idiotic to claim any land based on a belief or even historical conditions. And there is no way to change the current situation by arguing on that basis. Israel is a reality, and the aggressiveness of that state is also a reality since 1948, but the aggressiveness of the Arabs is no less a reality. And the main point is, that the poeple on the ground are sick and tried of all the fighting while their leaders still proceed with their weird policies. Maybe we will have to wait yet another generation until peace is a real option for the region.

That, I like. An actual historically accurate account (devoid of sources, but sif anyone would check them anyway), and logic too.

It doesn't matter. Israel is israel, and it's there for whatever reason, and it DOESN'T MATTER. The conflict in the middle east will not be resolved until the people, the real people not the politicians twice removed, get so sick of it that they will accept that their mutual history matters a lot less than their mutual present and the resolution of the latter for peace and general getting rid of belligerence.

It's the people that have to stop this, not the leaders. The leaders can yak all they like, but the day will come when the people of that region realise that they have more in common with each other than with the people telling them who to fight, and make their own peace. Then the government will catch up a few years later. Both sides have to do this simultaneously, or it won't work.

If one was going to implement a real strategy for stopping conflict around israel they would start an unofficial campaign to draw the people's attention to all of the above, and make them realise how sick and tired they are of fighting over things which don't matter.

I agree with the above totally but the problem is that this is not logical. We are dealing with religion here and fanatics are always the hardest to deal with. How do you compromise with religion? Israelis belive the West Bank is theirs from God and the Palestinians ceratinly don't think any less about the area. If this is the belief of the two sides than how do you get them to agree? People don't like change anyway and if peace suddenly comes to the Middle East... Whoa!

The Support for "Israel" (Caanan) must stop. The Holy land is being run by a fake people built on an old lie. Please don't vote for support of this land while we (the true Israelites) do not control it. The land was given to us, and therefore while the Jews control it, we do not, the Israelites lost it because of our wickedness, and our enemies have cashed in on it. This so called Nation of "Israel" is not, nor will it ever be our ally.


I am not American or Israeli, and cannot support everything that Israel does. But being a passionate believer in the rights of the individual (especially homosexuals, women and ethnic minorities) I cannot support the current Palestinian hierachy a regime that persecutes homosexuals within its own community.

Does that mean that I hate Palestinians? Of course not! Does that mean that they do not deserve their own independent state? Of course not! What it means however is that I cannot truly look at their campaign as being one fought for equality and justice for all.
When the Palestinians stop being hypocritical and start tolerating differences within their own Palestinian community and act truly democratically (and stop blowing up cafes and restaurants even if provoked by what is undoubtedly a gung-ho and ultra conservative hardline Israeli government), I may consider supporting them in their struggle against the Middle East's only current democracy.

Aryans are a lingvistic group who spread to India to Europe in the years before christ. This was discovered during the 18:th century when european traders found this"coincidence":
Three, english
Trés, french
Drei, german
Tre, nordic languages
Tria, sanskrit.
<snip>
As a french minor and a nosy git I'll have you know that you're looking for the word 'trois'. 'Trés' means 'very'.
HAHA you 'ave westeed your tam wiz your acute acsons an' text edeeteeng!! :p

(that was my very poor attempt at french phonetic spelling. I do not need help. Well.. not of a spelling/literacy nature anyway..)

QUOTE=Ariel Sharon
"I build it, then I tear it down..."