NationStates Jolt Archive

http://pages.infinit.net/noc/pentagon.swf

I found this one interesting, particularly the hole going through three of the pentagons five concentric inner sections that are seperated from each other, and made up of reinforced concrete and steel, the hole is too small to be one made by the size of a plane going through, but a nice size for a missile.
People around when it hit, also heard something go overhead that sounded too fast to be a plane, also the angle of impact was very difficult for a plane that size to make by a skilled pilot let alone a learner.

And why were all those videos from various places near the pentagon with live footage of the pentagon been struck confiscated shortly afterwards by the FBI and never seen afterwards?
I remember seeing the first reports coming from the pentagon and the first thing I remember apon hearing that it was another plane was asking myself wheres the wreckage.

And if it wasnt a plane then what happenned to the actual flight itself?

Anyway you judge for yourself.

Actual video takes a few minutes to download first off, but worth the wait, good production and sound too.

I believe this belongs in General.

I am so tired of this conspiracy theory stuff. I was in Washington, DC that day. I heard the crash. I personally know people who SAW the AIRPLANE fly over and HIT the Pentagon. My cousin was a first responder and SAW the AIRPLANE wreckage. It was an airplane, not a missile or a bomb. Period.

nice conspiracy

conspiracies by the US

JFK assasination
Moon landing
UFOs
Super soldiers
Super weapons
monkey / humans
Area 51
The Matrix

and many many more

So wheres the wreckage of the plane then, were their any bodys or parts of recovered, how did a plane punch through that much reinforced concrete and steel, and why was their such a small hole?
It looks like a missile hit it.

So wheres the wreckage of the plane then, were their any bodys or parts of recovered, how did a plane punch through that much reinforced concrete and steel, and why was their such a small hole?
It looks like a missile hit it.
We planes hanging out of the WTC after they crashed? They exploded, wreckage would be minimal and probably not visibile from far away, or at least discernable from the rest of the damage.

Wreckage:

http://libertyboy.free.fr/misc/attack/2001_09_11_pentagon_plane/rebuttal_pix/table3a.jpg
http://libertyboy.free.fr/misc/attack/2001_09_11_pentagon_plane/rebuttal_pix/table3c.jpg
http://libertyboy.free.fr/misc/attack/2001_09_11_pentagon_plane/rebuttal_pix/table3e.jpg
http://libertyboy.free.fr/misc/attack/2001_09_11_pentagon_plane/rebuttal_pix/table3b.jpg
http://libertyboy.free.fr/misc/attack/2001_09_11_pentagon_plane/rebuttal_pix/table3d.jpg
http://libertyboy.free.fr/misc/attack/2001_09_11_pentagon_plane/rebuttal_pix/table3f.jpg


Planes that explode don't leave many big pieces around, remember the ValuJet crash...

It is something to consider. I am always glad to see things like this because it reminds us to always look closer at things and not be mindless drones to the government - even if it's insanity.

I'm no expert on what happens when a plane slams into a building and have no knowledge, outside of video games, on what it's like to pilot any form of aircraft.

The whole thing has always looked a little shifty to me, but I rest well at night on the knowledge that all lies become exposed given enough time.

It took over a decade for a jury to finally conclude that there was enough evidence to support a conspiracy in the JFK assassination, but nobody has been brought up on charges ... yet.

It has taken 30 years for someone in power, not just a conspiracy nut, to finally think about bringing Henry Kissinger up on war crimes charges.

It may take a while, but the whole truth will eventually come out. It may be nothing more than what people already believe - that some Muslim extremists boarded some planes and staged a spectacular attack against US interests - or it could turn out that there was an Executive order. To be sure, anyone with any culpability for such a crime will be long dead before any proof of domestic conspiracy comes to light.

Anyway, one thing I am familiar with is rockets/missiles. When a missile hits something, it disintegrates. A plane used as a missile would probably disintegrate as well.

See this: http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

It's a tough egg to deal with, to be sure, but I wasn't there when it happened so I cannot speak with any authority.

So wheres the wreckage of the plane then,

A plane flew into a solid building. It disintegrated. Most of the plane's aluminium structure was easily burned in the resulting jet fuel inferno, since an ordinary house fire can reach the melting point of aluminium.

were their any bodys or parts of recovered,

All bar one of the passenger bodies has been identified and two black boxes recovered, yes.

how did a plane punch through that much reinforced concrete and steel,

Phenomenally high mass (it was a Boeing 757, for pete's sake,) and velocity.

and why was their such a small hole?

The main body of the plane could easily fit into the hole punched through the wall (96 feet wide does not make "such a small hole",) and it did. The wings and tail were shredded upon impact but left traces (http://www.defenselink.mil/photos/Sep2001/010914-F-8006R-001.jpg).

It looks like a missile hit it.

Were it a missile I fail to see how such a jolly fine oil fire (http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/2.jpg) was started, nor how it could have glanced off the Pentagon's helipad (setting fire to a fire engine,) first.

It's even odder that a missile could punch a hole through a reinforced wall that you assume a Boeing could not, considering that the Boeing would have a much larger momentum than any missile. What the reinforcement did was hold the wall together long enough for the building's occupants, such as they were, to be evacuated. Similarly I find it kind of interesting that a missile could have ejected one of its engines twelve feet further into the structure.

It also managed to fool several (http://www.criticalthrash.com/terror/identification.html) hundred (http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,1300,550486,00.html) witnesses (http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blflight77w.htm), including the occupants of the Pentagon, into specifically identifying the American Airlines 757 as an American Airlines 757.

Gentlemen, this sort of speculation is pointless, unqualified and completely lacks evidence. It spreads mistruths, ignores all evidence and logic to the contrary of its position, and calls hundreds of people liars. It is not research in any meaningful use of the term and it is not helpful.

Interestingly enough, there are many out there who have come to the same conclusion after extensive investigation. Thierry Meyssan gives in graphic detail evidence that it could not of been the plane they claim hit the Pentagon as claimed. I know because I've read his book "9/11 The big lie" It's pretty compelling stuff. Now, I don't know which version is the truth, but we do know it wouldn't be the first time the United States has ever lied to the public either. So, I'm personally left wondering. I have doubts of the official version because there is so much evidence to back up it didn't happen the way the government said it did. However, I'm not prone to be a conspiracy nut either.. but you know, maybe just maybe it is a conspiracy. Not all conspiracies are wrong. Perhaps we shall never know for sure.

Read the 9/11 Commission Report, it explains that it has to have been a plane (and before you cast doubt on that, would a large group of Congressmen, Ted Kennedy among them, really agree to a massive, unprecedented lie, just to protect President Bush?). Besides, where is the evidance of a missle strike, where did the missle come from, who fired it, why didn't it show up on radar, what is supposed to have happened to the airline flight that really slamed into the Pentagon, who placed the plane parts around the pentagon, who faked the forensic reports, why, in a conspiracy that would have had to involve thousands of people, did no one catch on or has no one come forward? This theory can't answer these questions with anything but wild speculation.

Read the 9/11 Commission Report, it explains that it has to have been a plane (and before you cast doubt on that, would a large group of Congressmen, Ted Kennedy among them, really agree to a massive, unprecedented lie, just to protect President Bush?). Besides, where is the evidance of a missle strike, where did the missle come from, who fired it, why didn't it show up on radar, what is supposed to have happened to the airline flight that really slamed into the Pentagon, who placed the plane parts around the pentagon, who faked the forensic reports, why, in a conspiracy that would have had to involve thousands of people, did no one catch on or has no one come forward? This theory can't answer these questions with anything but wild speculation.

For this to be true, then you have to assume that the 9/11 commission was given every piece of evidence known to the administration. As well as given to the Congress. We have seen now that not all the daily briefings leading up to the war in Iraq were released to Congress so why would it be so hard to believe the same didn't happen with 9/11 evidence? I own a copy of the 9/11 report.. and sure it covers quite a lot, but they could only go by the information the government gave them. Some conspiracies are true. "Watergate" any one? Also, look at the "Warren Commission" they made sure the official version of the Kennedy killing was what they found too. The Warren commission for years has been thought to be nothing but a tool of Johnson. I'm not saying the 9/11 commission was a tool of Bush, after all he didn't even want it to happen and finally caved after pressure. However that is not cold hard evidence. Look at how hard Nixon tried to hide the "Pentagon Papers" on Vietnam. Like I said, perhaps we shall never know.

If it was a missile, then there is no other explanation, than that is was a US missile. There is no way any other countries missile could have gotten close enough to hit it without major alarms and evacuations from the Pentagon.

But if it could be proven to be a US missile... well that would be the biggest scandal in history.

A plane, being more massive than most missiles, has greater momentum, but for penetration purposes, it also matters what the structural integrity of the penetrating object is and the cross sectional area of the impacting object. Smaller cross section on the same mass leads to greater pressure on a smaller impact and a smaller, deeper hole.

A missile, being much more solid than a passenger jet (i.e., denser in most cases - greater mass/area ratio) and often having a hardened nosecone to aid in penetration, would therefore have greater penetration than a passenger jet, assuming appropriate overall scale.

http://libertyboy.free.fr/misc/attack/2001_09_11_pentagon_plane/index.php

...monkey / humans...

What the hell are you talking about here? Bigfoot? Evolution? The Monkey Man that terrorizes villages in India? I'm serious, I'm confused as hell on this one.

...Area 51...

Area 51 isn't a conspiracy, it's a real military base in Nevada. They conduct experiments with experimental aircraft, and there has been rumors that there is an alien spacecraft/body/weaponry there.

...The Matrix...

This takes the cake. THE MATRIX?! The Matrix is a f$%@ing movie!!! It's not a great American conspiracy, it's a science fiction movie! Next thing you're going to tell me is that the government is covering up the location of Obi-Wan Kenobi's body.

For this to be true, then you have to assume that the 9/11 commission was given every piece of evidence known to the administration. As well as given to the Congress. We have seen now that not all the daily briefings leading up to the war in Iraq were released to Congress so why would it be so hard to believe the same didn't happen with 9/11 evidence? I own a copy of the 9/11 report.. and sure it covers quite a lot, but they could only go by the information the government gave them. Some conspiracies are true. "Watergate" any one? Also, look at the "Warren Commission" they made sure the official version of the Kennedy killing was what they found too. The Warren commission for years has been thought to be nothing but a tool of Johnson. I'm not saying the 9/11 commission was a tool of Bush, after all he didn't even want it to happen and finally caved after pressure. However that is not cold hard evidence. Look at how hard Nixon tried to hide the "Pentagon Papers" on Vietnam. Like I said, perhaps we shall never know.

1.There is no evedance to support a missile strike.
2.There are hundreds of pages of evidance to support "the official version".

As I said, this theory has no evidance to support it, goes against all the evidance we have now, and, if it were true, it would mean that hundreds, if not thousands of people were involed in the lie and cover up. Sure, we'll never be 1000% sure, but it is as easy for me to allege that it was a ham sandwich that hit the pentagon as it is for these clowns to allege that it was a missle and you'll never know that it wasn't a ham sandwich, but to believe that it was a missile in the face of all facts takes either an incredible naivity or some pre-existing hatred toward the American Government.

1.There is no evedance to support a missile strike.

Actually that's not true. There is quite a lot of evidence to support the missile theory. Like I said.. I'm not looking for a conspiracy. I'm just saying it is possible. It's not like the government could not have hidden the evidence. Swore people to secrecy. It wouldn't be the first time.

Look at the "Pentagon Papers" that secret was held through 4 administrations. Every thing you probably think you have ever learned about the Vietnam war is probably a lie. It was proven. They even tried to go after the guy who finally exposed it and have him charged with treason. He got off by the way. They tried to stop the free press. The press won and the NYT and WP both ran the Pentagon Papers. It was all based on lies to win elections. No president wanted to be the one to admit they had lost the war, so they just kept it going. Shocking. Yet true!

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB48/

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/pentagon/pent1.html

Those are the facts. They made a movie based on Daniel Ellsberg's story, you can buy it online, I bought mine off of Amazon.com but this site gives a better description of the case.

http://www.bestprices.com/cgi-bin/vlink/097368012448IE

So don't say that the theories around 9/11 are not at least possible. Any thing is possible.

This takes the cake. THE MATRIX?! The Matrix is a f$%@ing movie!!! It's not a great American conspiracy, it's a science fiction movie! Next thing you're going to tell me is that the government is covering up the location of Obi-Wan Kenobi's body.
Well, there was this one woman in Cleveland, I think it was, who plead not guilty because she thought she was in the Matrix.

Actually that's not true. There is quite a lot of evidence to support the missile theory. Like I said.. I'm not looking for a conspiracy. I'm just saying it is possible. It's not like the government could not have hidden the evidence. Swore people to secrecy. It wouldn't be the first time.

Look at the "Pentagon Papers" that secret was held through 4 administrations. Every thing you probably think you have ever learned about the Vietnam war is probably a lie. It was proven. They even tried to go after the guy who finally exposed it and have him charged with treason. He got off by the way. They tried to stop the free press. The press won and the NYT and WP both ran the Pentagon Papers. It was all based on lies to win elections. No president wanted to be the one to admit they had lost the war, so they just kept it going. Shocking. Yet true!

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB48/

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/pentagon/pent1.html

Those are the facts. They made a movie based on Daniel Ellsberg's story, you can buy it online, I bought mine off of Amazon.com but this site gives a better description of the case.

http://www.bestprices.com/cgi-bin/vlink/097368012448IE

So don't say that the theories around 9/11 are not at least possible. Any thing is possible.

Yes, we have all heard of the Pentagon Papers, now where is this evidance of a missile strike we keep hearing about?

I never said it wasn't possible, I also addmitted that it was possible that a ham sandwich caused the damage at the pentagon, it's just that all facts point toward a less nonsensical explanation. For all I know, you could be a monkey who had hidden under the seats of the Appolo 11 lunar lander and now you're connecting to the internet telepathically from the moon, I just suspect otherwise.

Yes, we have all heard of the Pentagon Papers, now where is this evidance of a missile strike we keep hearing about?

I never said it wasn't possible, I also addmitted that it was possible that a ham sandwich caused the damage at the pentagon, it's just that all facts point toward a less nonsensical explanation. For all I know, you could be a monkey who had hidden under the seats of the Appolo 11 lunar lander and now you're connecting to the internet telepathically from the moon, I just suspect otherwise.

Hehe, I assure you I'm not a monkey, but maybe I'm lying..lol :D

I suggest you pick up a book written on the issue. That is what I did. I stress again, I don't know which side to believe, both sides seem to provide evidence that is rather compelling to back up their case. I am left with doubts but by no means a certainty of who is telling the truth or who is lying.

I suppose one could argue that there is their side and the other side and then the truth. Usually the truth sits some where in the middle. Perhaps (most likely) it was the plane that hit the Pentagon, but maybe the government covered up some thing that left room for these theories to be put forth. I don't know, I'm just a normal person like you who is interested in the truth or at least the subject.

Hehe, I assure you I'm not a monkey, but maybe I'm lying..lol :D

I suggest you pick up a book written on the issue. That is what I did. I stress again, I don't know which side to believe, both sides seem to provide evidence that is rather compelling to back up their case. I am left with doubts but by no means a certainty of who is telling the truth or who is lying.

I suppose one could argue that there is their side and the other side and then the truth. Usually the truth sits some where in the middle. Perhaps (most likely) it was the plane that hit the Pentagon, but maybe the government covered up some thing that left room for these theories to be put forth. I don't know, I'm just a normal person like you who is interested in the truth or at least the subject.

Which book, I'm actually curious, but if it's the one by Meyssan try going to the link posted by Brehnev a few posts back, I think it answers Meyssan's questions.

Which book, I'm actually curious, but if it's the one by Meyssan try going to the link posted by Brehnev a few posts back, I think it answers Meyssan's questions.

Oh that site didn't even come close to answering all the points his book brings up. He does explain all that stuff. I know, I read the book. It's a cheap book if you buy it in paperback.. what do you have to lose? Your choice :)

Well, my dad was there that day, and the first thing they thought was that it was a bomb. However, I know there are pictures somewhere of the plane going into the building. Also, one of my father's coworkers was outside and claimed to see the plane hit. He was soaked in jet fuel when my dad found him.

I love Snopes.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

So wheres the wreckage of the plane then, were their any bodys or parts of recovered, how did a plane punch through that much reinforced concrete and steel, and why was their such a small hole?
It looks like a missile hit it.

There are no missiles that would make that kind of hole. Anti-tank/bunker missiles produce small, focused blasts, anti-air are too small, and anti-building would have caused one hell of a lot more damage.

being from Virginia, and knowing plenty of peolpe who work near the pentagon...it was a plane. And if I said otherwise, I'd be laughed out of the state. Some people have too much time on their hands.

This has probably been posted by now, but I don't have the time to check.

Anyways, case closed: http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

This has probably been posted by now, but I don't have the time to check.

Anyways, case closed: http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm


Someone did post that. 3 friggin' posts before you!

My uncle was there and he saw an aircraft. End of thread.

So wheres the wreckage of the plane then, were their any bodys or parts of recovered, how did a plane punch through that much reinforced concrete and steel, and why was their such a small hole?
It looks like a missile hit it.
I stood in West Street at the intersection with Albany Street after the first plane hit and before the second came in overhead. This is about two blocks south of 1 WTC, three blocks from the point of impact. Having a clear view of West Street there were body parts and some minor debris but nothing larger than perhaps a sheet of paper.

While I was standing there the second plane came in overhead and collided into 2 WTC one very short block north of me. It was as though the plane had hit some kind of SciFi portal. The building received the entire plane from nose to tail section. No debris backwashed. It was as though there was nothing there to stop it.

I have to admit, I didn't read all of of the responses. But, I can tell you for certain that it was a plane.

At the time, a friend of mine was working as an intern for a congressman in Washington, and he was making a delivery to the Pentagon, which is across the Potomac River in Arlington, Virginia. As he was walking toward the entrance to the building, the plane went directly over his head and slammed into the side of the building. He was hit by some flying debris, but luckily wasn't badly injured--like I said, the plane went right over him; he said it felt like he could have reached up and touched it. Needless to say, he got a pretty good view.

So, unless the government has concocted a wide-ranging scheme to manipulate the memory of the probably hundreds of people who saw the plane hit, it was definitely a 747.

The only logical explanation is that the UFOs, in conjunction with the Greater Soviet conspiracy and Zombie Lenin and Zombie Lennon worked together, got a bunch of missles and dressed them up like planes before smashing them into the buildings, the 9/11 commision found this out, but the Zombies used their mind control powers to enslave all of them.

We are currently living undertthe rule of the undead!

Szerelem, one minor correction. It was a 757, not a 747.

If it was a missile, then there is no other explanation, than that is was a US missile. There is no way any other countries missile could have gotten close enough to hit it without major alarms and evacuations from the Pentagon.

But if it could be proven to be a US missile... well that would be the biggest scandal in history.


Well, quite frankly, if it was proven to be a "US Missile" or even that the US purposly destroyed 2/3 of the Pentagon for whatever reason they like, then why would they be sick enough to crash two planes into the twin towers, and crash another one in Pennsylvania? I mean, there's no way they timed it with the terrorists, right? So basically, I really hope that Bush isn't maniacal enough to concoct something like that!

Conspiracy theories are fun.

I know a few aeronautical Engineers. One who designs for Boeing itself. It was not a missile. Many of the people here have already given the reasons I heard.

Also, you could not silence the fact if it was an inside job. The pentagon is not all hard core "patriots." Somebody would rat the plot and the evil liberal press would have loved to take their digs at the shrub.

Sorry not consipiracy here. They are fun however. ;)

One of our Muslim workers went to Saudi after the event. He reported that the average Saudi was suggesting it was the Israelis and or the shrub who executed it just to discredit Muslims.

Anyhow.....

I love how we've spent so much time theorizing about the Pentagon and totally missed the fact that the story about how the passengers on the flight that crashed in PA didn't actually drive it into the ground, but the terrorists did, and we keep touting them as heroes for it.

That was a few weeks ago... and well, nobody picked up on that... but we can spend all this time debating whether the Pentagon was hit by a missle or not.

If the Pentagon was hit by a missle, where is the 757 that was reported missing and that put out a hijack distress signal before it disappeared from radar? How come we haven't found it? Where did it go?

A 757 doesn't just "disappear."

the story about how the passengers on the flight that crashed in PA didn't actually drive it into the ground, but the terrorists did, and we keep touting them as heroes for it.


Im sure the passengers would have had something to do with that, the original destination for the hijacked plane was reported to be either the White House or Camp David, not some field in the middle of nowhere.
Id say it would have been the White house, a very juicy target for terrorists.