NationStates Jolt Archive

We on these forums masturbated when the DNC speakers made their speaches, but I've seen little on the RNC speeches, save for the Big One last night.
But really, I think Schwarzenegger (sp?) was the best. I feel that only an immigrant can truely appreciate this country. Not only did he, but he did it with such passion.

I wish he would avoid those lame-assed cliche tag lines from his movies.


If I never hear "girly-man" again - I would be happy.

I wish he would avoid those lame-assed cliche tag lines from his movies.


If I never hear "girly-man" again - I would be happy.
Dude, that's even better than "Hasta la vista, baby."

yes , he was very good. I hope you all watched the entire speech too.

If I never hear "girly-man" again - I would be happy.

Yes people can find it all very funny... tell that to old people who can't afford their prescriptions, tell that to 45 million people without healthcare, tell that to the poor sucker who's job just got outsourced that they are "girly-men" It's sickening to make such light of real people's problems, not every one makes 20 million dollars a movie!

yes , he was very good. I hope you all watched the entire speech too.
I did. It moved me to tears. Only an immigrant can truely appreciate this country, and that he was. However, I never knew how great of a speaker he could be.

A question. Did any Republicans cringe when Arnie described Nixon as the reason that he fell in love with your party?

I mean... really. Nixon?!

From Nixon's RNC acceptance speech in '68
When the strongest nation in the world can be tied down for four years in a war in Vietnam with no end in sight, when the richest nation in the world cannot manage its economy, when the nation with the greatest tradition of the rule of war is plagued by unprecedented racial violence, when the President of the United States cannot travel abroad, or to any major city at home, then its time for new leadership for the United States."


Hmm.... actually I guess that explains a lot for his support of Bush.

The parallels on wars with no end in sight, mismanaged economies, and the security needed for the President can certainly be drawn to today....

Yes people can find it all very funny... tell that to old people who can't afford their prescriptions, tell that to 45 million people without healthcare, tell that to the poor sucker who's job just got outsourced that they are "girly-men" It's sickening to make such light of real people's problems, not every one makes 20 million dollars a movie!I couldn't have put it better myself. I would like to add this though: Although I did not see it, I have seen several quotations from both sides. Was there anything in the speech aside from propaganda and crude mockery?

yeah, I am a recently converted Republican and I loved the speech also. He played by the rules, worked hard, and hit the jackpot. The American dream. It is rarely noticed in this modern, jaded, society....that you really can live your dreams if only you believe in yourself. I am glad arnold brought that idea back alive, if only for a few moments.

what exactly do you mean by 45 million people without healthcare? That is 15% of the population. Surely they can see a doctor.....right?

when you mean government funded health coverage say it that way. saying people don't have health care is incorrect.

A question. Did any Republicans cringe when Arnie described Nixon as the reason that he fell in love with your party?

I mean... really. Nixon?!

From Nixon's RNC acceptance speech in '68


Hmm.... actually I guess that explains a lot for his support of Bush.

The parallels on wars with no end in sight, mismanaged economies, and the security needed for the President can certainly be drawn to today....
I can point out differences, however. For one, we're winning. For another, a bad economy in the US is, quite frankly, an illusion Bush haters hold. Just this month, durable goods orders were slightly higher than consensus, and job creation was slightly lower than consensus. Corporate profits are up, and GDP had grown at 3% last year, far higher than most industrialized economies.
As for Nixon, he attracted a lot to the GOP with a prophetic message: that within a generation, the Soviets would know what freedom meant. It must have affected Schwarzenegger, who grew up under Soviet occupation.

right on

I can point out differences, however. For one, we're winning. For another, a bad economy in the US is, quite frankly, an illusion Bush haters hold. Just this month, durable goods orders were slightly higher than consensus, and job creation was slightly lower than consensus. Corporate profits are up, and GDP had grown at 3% last year, far higher than most industrialized economies.
As for Nixon, he attracted a lot to the GOP with a prophetic message: that within a generation, the Soviets would know what freedom meant. It must have affected Schwarzenegger, who grew up under Soviet occupation.

And retail sales are still off, and bankruptcies are still up, and the number of people below the poverty line is up.... it's a mixed bag of indicators, but certainly NOT the best economy that the US has seen. Not by a long shot.

But the main point being that not many people still praise Nixon for his tenure in the Oval Office. It just isn't something you hear very often...

And retail sales are still off, and bankruptcies are still up, and the number of people below the poverty line is up.... it's a mixed bag of indicators, but certainly NOT the best economy that the US has seen. Not by a long shot.
Not the best, but certainly not the worst, either. If Gore was elected, would the economy really be as good as it was under Clinton?
But the main point being that not many people still praise Nixon for his tenure in the Oval Office. It just isn't something you hear very often...
Domestically, he was a failure. But in foreign policy, he was a genius for one reason: Kissenger. Because of their work, Red China took a 180 degree turn from the USSR to the US, even under Mao Zedong. With them, they were able to have a dignified, if not honorable, defeat in Vietnam. Hey, we now know Kissenger talked Nixon out of using a nuclear weapon in Vietnam. And with Kissenger's help, it was safe to enter detente because, as Kissenger realized, the days of communism were numbered. Nixon wasn't that great, but Kissenger should be regarded as the best Secretary of state since Thomas Jefferson.
Oh, I almost forgot. Kissenger helped to end the oil embargo, and his famous shuttle diplomacy. He sorta lost his touch under Gerald Ford.

Not the best, but certainly not the worst, either. If Gore was elected, would the economy really be as good as it was under Clinton?

I frankly do not like playing such a guessing game. It's like the "what would Gore have done after 9-11" comments. People just jump to assumptions based on preconceptions.

Domestically, he was a failure. But in foreign policy, he was a genius for one reason: Kissenger. Because of their work, Red China took a 180 degree turn from the USSR to the US, even under Mao Zedong. With them, they were able to have a dignified, if not honorable, defeat in Vietnam. Hey, we now know Kissenger talked Nixon out of using a nuclear weapon in Vietnam. And with Kissenger's help, it was safe to enter detente because, as Kissenger realized, the days of communism were numbered. Nixon wasn't that great, but Kissenger should be regarded as the best Secretary of state since Thomas Jefferson.
Oh, I almost forgot. Kissenger helped to end the oil embargo, and his famous shuttle diplomacy. He sorta lost his touch under Gerald Ford.

So, you'd rather he had idolized Kissinger? That would be fairer. Nixon put a stain on the party that was not erased until Reagan.

I think Stephistan was right when they said 45 million americans are without healthcare insurance. People either pay for thier own or recieve some type of government assistance. Then there is a huge number in the middle who are not poor enough for govenment help but dont have insurance for some reason. I know some people like that, and yes, the do choose not to see a doctor becuase they cant afford it.

what exactly do you mean by 45 million people without healthcare? That is 15% of the population. Surely they can see a doctor.....right?

Okay, let me make it more clear for you. 45 million Americans can go find out they have Cancer, but unless they have health insurance or the money to pay, they can't get treatment. Is that clear enough?

I think Stephistan was right when they said 45 million americans are without healthcare insurance. People either pay for thier own or recieve some type of government assistance. Then there is a huge number in the middle who are not poor enough for govenment help but dont have insurance for some reason. I know some people like that, and yes, the do choose not to see a doctor becuase they cant afford it.

One thing to consider with the F'em types.

We have a poor family up the street. My kid plays with them and they are responsible kids and are very good to her.

Well one got sick, then the others. The analysis. Menegitas! :eek:

So we had a scare for a few days wondering if my girl got it.

The others eventually had to be hospitalised and had spinal tapes done. They don't know what it was but it got better.

You can say F'em but it can actually affect you when you least expect it. So yes I do like the idea of medical insurrence of some form for everybody.

I didn't watch the Republicon Convention. Should I have?

I frankly do not like playing such a guessing game. It's like the "what would Gore have done after 9-11" comments. People just jump to assumptions based on preconceptions.
Fair enough. I wouldn't speculate if I were in your position, either. Besides, we're supposed to look to the future and not the past, right?


So, you'd rather he had idolized Kissinger? That would be fairer. Nixon put a stain on the party that was not erased until Reagan.
As in every presidency, the president is responsible for every good and evil his administration has done, whether he did it or not. George Bush, for example, only says yea or nea to everything. The real guys shaping his policy are his cabinet, and the cabinetmembers' assistents. I think you'd agree with me that Powell, Cheney, Rice, and Rumsfeld have more influence at the White House than Bush himself. And I like that. Every one of them, while you may not agree with them, are highly educated, and know what they're doing. Bush himself, on the other hand, is not all that bright, although he certainly has good tastes for appointing advisors. Besides, he has the most important skill a politician in Washington can have: he plays the game, and he plays it well.

I didn't watch the Republicon Convention. Should I have?
Yeah, it might have converted you :).

Domestically, he was a failure. But in foreign policy, he was a genius for one reason: Kissenger. Because of their work, Red China took a 180 degree turn from the USSR to the US, even under Mao Zedong. With them, they were able to have a dignified, if not honorable, defeat in Vietnam. Hey, we now know Kissenger talked Nixon out of using a nuclear weapon in Vietnam. And with Kissenger's help, it was safe to enter detente because, as Kissenger realized, the days of communism were numbered. Nixon wasn't that great, but Kissenger should be regarded as the best Secretary of state since Thomas Jefferson.
Oh, I almost forgot. Kissenger helped to end the oil embargo, and his famous shuttle diplomacy. He sorta lost his touch under Gerald Ford.

Kissinger:

1.Betrayed loyal American allies in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia, consigning millions of innocent people to bloodshed and tyranny.

2.Severely gutted our national security via increased trade with the USSR and the treasonous SALT I agreement.

3.Frequently and habitually broke the law (phone taps, etc.)

4.Degraded and humiliated the US with the Paris 'Peace' Accords.

5.Gave Taiwan a big kick in the balls by recognizing Red China, setting the stage for us helping China become a superpower (which to this day considers us 'the main enemy') and betraying Taiwan completely.

6.Was a Soviet agent. Read Henry Kissinger: Soviet Agent for more details.

Okay, let me make it more clear for you. 45 million Americans can go find out they have Cancer, but unless they have health insurance or the money to pay, they can't get treatment. Is that clear enough?
Doctors are obligated under the Hippocratic Oath to treat anyone. The only thing no health insurance means is that you can't pay for it right away. If that's the case, the hospitals simply let a person pay when they choose to. Interest may collect over the years, but that's about it.
The good news, according to TIME magazine, is that 88% of those under 18 are, in fact, insured.

Kissenger should be regarded as the best Secretary of state since Thomas Jefferson.
Don't you mean: Kissinger should be regarded as a War criminal?
"The illegal we can do right now; the unconstitutional will take a little longer." Henry Kissinger
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Kissinger/HKissinger.html
http://www.zpub.com/un/wanted-hkiss.html

Uhhh, Kissinger is wanted for war crimes.. he can't even step outside of the US in fear some one will grab him for his war cimes. I don't think any one should be praising Kissinger.

Purly Euclid - what the heck was this suppose to mean? "I wouldn't speculate if I were in your position, either." to my husband? Are you trying to imply that you know and can speculate and Zeppistan can't? Or am I reading that wrong. Because if the first is true, umm I'm sure Zeppistan knows just as much about politics as you do my dear. ;)

Doctors are obligated under the Hippocratic Oath to treat anyone. The only thing no health insurance means is that you can't pay for it right away. If that's the case, the hospitals simply let a person pay when they choose to. Interest may collect over the years, but that's about it..

That's not true. I know for a fact for many costly operations such as transplants, Cancer treatments , heart surgery etc they want a payment up front. If you don't have assets like a home you own or business or some thing they want all the money up front. That's where the old term comes from "Having to decide if you're going to lose your home or pay for that operation you really needed"

They have state hospitals.. but you have to have nothing and the quality of care is well, lets just say most people who go in there with Cancer never come back out alive!.

I only saw bits and pieces of the governators speech on the news. But I got the distinct impression that all he did was tell the people exactly what they wanted to hear. All nothing but patriotic bullshit.

Kissinger:

1.Betrayed loyal American allies in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia, consigning millions of innocent people to bloodshed and tyranny.
But he helped so that it wouldn't spread to Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei, the Phillipines, and Burma.[/quote]
2.Severely gutted our national security via increased trade with the USSR and the treasonous SALT I agreement.
A masterpeice of common security.
3.Frequently and habitually broke the law (phone taps, etc.)
It was quite laughable at best.
4.Degraded and humiliated the US with the Paris 'Peace' Accords.
Read #1.
5.Gave Taiwan a big kick in the balls by recognizing Red China, setting the stage for us helping China become a superpower (which to this day considers us 'the main enemy') and betraying Taiwan completely.
Not completely. Hey, we even said that if China attacks Taiwan, we'd defend it. But anyhow, we had to embrace Red China. They were a potent enemy of the Soviet Union, and as far as Cold Warriors were concered, more strategic of an ally than Taiwan.
6.Was a Soviet agent. Read Henry Kissinger: Soviet Agent for more details.
Oh, how redicolous! Kissenger is a war criminal. Kissenger was a pinko. Hey, I could probably say Kissenger was a transexual, and gain a bunch of followers.

Personally I have mixed feelings about Arnold's 'living the American dream' story. It's certainly amazing how he went to the States with nothing and has achieved pretty much everything he's set out to do, but when you go deeper you realise just how driven and uncaring he is. I mean he didn't even go to his own father's funeral because it would have meant interupting his training for Mr Universe! And he did everything possible to win those competitions, notmatter how low. One time when a competitor asked him for some baby oil backstage, Arnold gave him something else that made him come out in a rash and go bright red, so he couldn't compete. He immediately dumped his long-time girlfriend, who he had refused to marry, to woo and marry Maria Shriver as soon as possible, because he saw the advantages of marrying into the Kennedys.
While you might say 'good on him! He had vision!' do you really need to be that selfish, obsessed and uncaring to achieve your dreams?

But he helped so that it wouldn't spread to Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei, the Phillipines, and Burma.
I can't believe people are still so simple-minded in this day and age they still believe the 'Domino effect'. A bit sad really. Even Bob McNamara, who came up with that phrase with Lyndon Johnson has said it was a wrong assumption.

Economic 'girly-men'???

Didn't Ah-nold cut the car tax with would throw the state into much more debt (which was the reason they were moving to throw out Davis in the first place) and wasn't his plan to relieve Cali of its debt to ask for a big check from his buddy Bush in D.C.?

If that's 'manly-man' economic policy give me 'girlie-men' anyday.

That's not true. I know for a fact for many costly operations such as transplants, Cancer treatments , heart surgery etc they want a payment up front. If you don't have assets like a home you own or business or some thing they want all the money up front. That's where the old term comes from "Having to decide if you're going to lose your home or pay for that operation you really needed"

They have state hospitals.. but you have to have nothing and the quality of care is well, lets just say most people who go in there with Cancer never come back out alive!.
That's funny. I had brain surgery, and they only footed me a bill after I had it. Same for all of my MRIs, CT scans, hell, they didn't even foot me the bill for intensive care up front. So where are you hearing about the healthcare system from?

I can't believe people are still so simple-minded in this day and age they still believe the 'Domino effect'. A bit sad really. Even Bob McNamara, who came up with that phrase with Lyndon Johnson has said it was a wrong assumption.
Well, it sorta happened. There was a communist insurgency in Malaysia. And we know that the domino effect has worked with Japan. Once they became a liberal democracy, sooner or later, everyone in the region except North Korea did. Even though China isn't a democracy, the liberal theory of history holds that it will be within a generation.

I didn't watch the Republicon Convention. Should I have?

Yes. Zell Miller was priceless. I wanted to throw something at my screen with he was speaking but after that when he was being interviewed by journalists and they brought up something that he said about his speech (I think it was the 'spitballs' comment) he went ballistic.

Zell Miller...I'll add him next to Ann Coulter in my list of "Batshit-Insane Bush Supporters"

It was absolutely priceless. I couldn't stop laughing. :D

I can't believe people are still so simple-minded in this day and age they still believe the 'Domino effect'. A bit sad really. Even Bob McNamara, who came up with that phrase with Lyndon Johnson has said it was a wrong assumption.
It did happen though. Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia all became Communist, and then there were insurgencies in places like Thailand.

That's funny. I had brain surgery, and they only footed me a bill after I had it. Same for all of my MRIs, CT scans, hell, they didn't even foot me the bill for intensive care up front. So where are you hearing about the healthcare system from?

Well maybe it does vary from state to state. Do your parents own a home?

Yes. Zell Miller was priceless. I wanted to throw something at my screen with he was speaking but after that when he was being interviewed by journalists and they brought up something that he said about his speech (I think it was the 'spitballs' comment) he went ballistic.

Zell Miller...I'll add him next to Ann Coulter in my list of "Batshit-Insane Bush Supporters"

It was absolutely priceless. I couldn't stop laughing. :D
What can we expect other than stupidity from a Dixiecrat? That's why I watched only the first few minutes of him. I knew he would sound just like his comrade, George Wallace.

Personally I have mixed feelings about Arnold's 'living the American dream' story. It's certainly amazing how he went to the States with nothing and has achieved pretty much everything he's set out to do, but when you go deeper you realise just how driven and uncaring he is. I mean he didn't even go to his own father's funeral because it would have meant interupting his training for Mr Universe! And he did everything possible to win those competitions, notmatter how low. One time when a competitor asked him for some baby oil backstage, Arnold gave him something else that made him come out in a rash and go bright red, so he couldn't compete. He immediately dumped his long-time girlfriend, who he had refused to marry, to woo and marry Maria Shriver as soon as possible, because he saw the advantages of marrying into the Kennedys.
While you might say 'good on him! He had vision!' do you really need to be that selfish, obsessed and uncaring to achieve your dreams?
Sounds like a true American. Seems he assimilated himself very well.

Well maybe it does vary from state to state. Do your parents own a home?
Yes, why do you ask? If you're making a link between home ownership and healthcare, forget it. Home ownership levels have gone up as interest rates are at a historic low.

Yes, why do you ask? If you're making a link between home ownership and healthcare, forget it. Home ownership levels have gone up as interest rates are at a historic low.

Yeah but it means they had assets.. same as getting a credit card. I bet they work for a living too and could prove it. I bet you have a clue where I'm going with this?

But really, I think Schwarzenegger (sp?) was the best. I feel that only an immigrant can truely appreciate this country. Not only did he, but he did it with such passion.Funny, I thought his speech was awful. "its just like the oscars", "terminating terrorism", "econmic girly men", "america is back", and all that other bull that reminds you that he is not a politician but an actor. I'm of Austrian descent and I feel no kinship with the man... not to mention his whole excuse for being republican is that Nixon was republican... ugh, bleh, ew.

I can't believe people are still so simple-minded in this day and age they still believe the 'Domino effect'. A bit sad really. Even Bob McNamara, who came up with that phrase with Lyndon Johnson has said it was a wrong assumption.

Ike came up with the phrase, not McNamara or LBJ.

Yeah but it means they had assets.. same as getting a credit card. I bet they work for a living too and could prove it. I bet you have a clue where I'm going with this?
Actually, applying for a credit card or a loan is not based on how many assets you have as much as it is based on if you have a positive cash flow. Naturally, the bigger the income, the easier banks will give you a big loan. Lenders assume nowadays that everyone has collateral, and most everyone does. There is nearly one car in the US for every man, woman, and child living here. Hell, even 3/4 of those defined as below the poverty line own their own homes.

Funny, I thought his speech was awful. "its just like the oscars", "terminating terrorism", "econmic girly men", "america is back", and all that other bull that reminds you that he is not a politician but an actor. I'm of Austrian descent and I feel no kinship with the man... not to mention his whole excuse for being republican is that Nixon was republican... ugh, bleh, ew.
Even if you didn't like the content, however, you had to like the presentation. I never thought he was a master at using non-verbal signals to his advantage. The volume and tone variation of his voice was so that it'd seem like he was filling the base with red meat, but not in a way that intimidated everyone else.

I enjoyed it (i found Bush's speech better). Arnold's was fun to listen to and made me laugh yet realize how lucky we were to live int he US.

I almost died laughing at the "economic girlie men". I agree the economic is down but he got yelled at because he called a guy girlie man. I think that was fun to hear that pretty much, he doesn't care hwat people tell him not to say. He says what he wants to say and doesn't care about ploitical correctness.

Some of my fav quotes came from arnolds.

Waiiittt, people actually watched the RNC? :eek: