NationStates Jolt Archive

Bush is going to win this election because he owns the Mid-west.
John Kerry is also going to lose valuable votes becuase of Ralph Nader.
Who agrees with me?

And if you don't, please give me a good reason for disliking Bush -

- It can't have anything to do with his speech impedement, alliance with the Suadis, and reasons for invading Iraq (none of that Michael Moore crap).
- I would like to see some reasons dealing with domestic issues.

Heh, I liked his comment last night about his speech:

"People sometimes have to correct my English; I knew I had a problem when Arnold Schwarzenegger started doing it."

Kerry is also going to lose notes for Cobb and Badnarik.

I agree with you. I also believe that many 9/11 families will be attracted to the Republican party because of Rudy Guliani's (sp?) speech at the convention. He really tried to reach out to the victim's families.

Arnold was inspiring. "If you think your family can spend your money better than the government can, you're a Republican!" Should sway a good deal of immigrants...

In one minute a steaming libeal will walk in and spam. That's my guess.

The Swift Boat Vets are killing Kerry, and Bush is one percent ahead of Kerry.

"Don't be economic girly-man!!!"-Arnold Schwarzenegger

Perhaps a good reason to dislike Bush would be the deficits, crappy economy, and what is it, 2 million or so jobs lost since he took office.

Not to mention Big Brother...er, Ashcroft's so-called "PATRIOT" Act. When you exchange freedom for security, you get neither.

^^^^
"Don't be economic girly-man!!!"-Arnold Schwarzenegger

*The economy has grown 4.8% in the past year, as fast as any year in nearly two decades.

*Productivity grew at the fastest 3-year rate in more than 50 years.

*Since last August, over 1.5 million new jobs have been created.

*The unemployment rate has fallen from 6.3 to 5.6 percent, below the average of the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s.

*Employment over the last year was up in 41 of the 50 states, and the unemployment rate was down in 47 of the 50 states.

*Real after-tax incomes are up by 11 percent since December 2000. This increase is mostly due to the President’s tax relief and is substantially better than those following the last recession.

*Homeownership rates are at record levels – nearly seven out of ten American families own their own home today.

*Household wealth is near a record high.

*Consumer confidence is up from the levels seen at this time last year and is in the upper third of its historical range.

*Inflation remains low by historical standards, as do mortgage rates.

And if you don't, please give me a good reason for disliking Bush -

- It can't have anything to do with his speech impedement,
Understandable. If it was the only thing wrong with him it would be a weak criticism indeed.

alliance with the Suadis, and reasons for invading Iraq (none of that Michael Moore crap).
Really? Because Bush is running on this stuff, and I mean really running on it, not the way republicans are pretending Kerry is running on Vietnam, but really really running on it. So if because Kerry has mentioned his Vietnam service it's okay to splew all over that as if it was his platform, why isn't it okay to talk about Iraq? I mean, it is a pretty big deal, @$400 billion of our money and such...why is this off limits only to opposition?

- I would like to see some reasons dealing with domestic issues.
This shouldn't take long. I'll leave it to the NS researching team.

Not to mention Big Brother...er, Ashcroft's so-called "PATRIOT" Act. When you exchange freedom for security, you get neither.

Security definetly did increase buddy, I feel safer in NY City and airports with the national gaurd walking around carrying M-16's.
There haven't been any terrorist attacks or anything like that, so security is much better now.

Keep it up my fellow Republicans. Go Ahhhnold Schwarzenegger!!!!

In one minute a steaming libeal will walk in and spam. That's my guess.

Ok, i will take up that flag. The whole setting of the question is completely pointless and illogical. No, that not strong enough. Its complete bullshit only a moron of epic proportions could think of. Why should i give a reason for disliking Dubya when i dont think he is going to win? There is absolutely no corrolation between those two things. E.g. I can be a supporter of Nader, think he is the greatest politician ever to walk the earth and still strongly belief he is not going to be the next president, because the one of other candidates will be stronger in the end. By the same train of thought (which holds no partisanship, just pure logic) i could be a supporter of Bush and still think Kerry will win.

Bush made the right choice by going into Iraq, not only did it take Sadam out of power, but it also limited terrorism.
I think it was a necessary move, because the Middle East deserves pay back.

If we do anything about the Extreme Muslims in Asia, they will take over the world - because that is their goal, you know "Jihad", yeah that's right.

Ok, i will take up that flag. The whole setting of the question is completely pointless and illogical. No, that not strong enough. Its complete bullshit only a moron of epic proportions could think of. Why should i give a reason for disliking Dubya when i dont think he is going to win? There is absolutely no corrolation between those two things. E.g. I can be a supporter of Nader, think he is the greatest politician ever to walk the earth and still strongly belief he is not going to be the next president, because the one of other candidates will be stronger in the end. By the same train of thought (which holds no partisanship, just pure logic) i could be a supporter of Bush and still think Kerry will win.

My question isn't pointless, there has to be a reason for people to think that Bush will not win, it's impossible to just think that without any premise.
I just wanted to see why people (liberals) think he won't win.

Once again, if i think Bush is not going to win, that does not automatically mean i dont like him. I dont think i will inherit a large sum of money from a distant uncle, even if i would like that.

this one will go down to the wire.

Are we safe because the shrub made us safe or is it because everybody is actively looking for them? Even if Clinton was in charge, all agencies would be look for attacks after 9/11.

There are a great deal of middle class types that don't think times are great(Wall Street Journal did a poll and I think think it was 50-60%) so there is a perception problem.

There are a great deal of people that lost a bunch of money in the corprate fraud scandles and yet we don't see anybody doing jail time. You think the shrub will jail his buddy "Kenny Boy" Lay?

There are many "young" people that don't care about Kerry and Viet Nam as it's ancient history to them. I have annoyed people and asked ;) Mind you it's just coffee shop talk....

There are many people that belive Moores Movie.

So I don't think the election has been locked up yet.

I think Ohio will be the proving grounds for the shrub. I don't think there has been a Republican President that didn't carry Ohio.

Ohio has also been hit hard by the job exportation. I reat awhile back that certain counties have (had) a 21% unemployment rate :eek:

If the shrub carries Ohio, he might just win....

And if you don't, please give me a good reason for disliking Bush - [/QUOTE]

19,400+ Iraqi civilians dead
3,500+ Afghani civilians dead
1,000+ Coalition dead
And this man has yet to attend a single funeral

152 Executions while Gov. of Texas (some of whom where mentally disabled)
$521,000,000,000 deficit after a 200 billion dollar inheirited surplus
world record for most coporate campaign donations
3.3 million more people out of work than 2000
tax cuts to the richest few americans, only more fuel for further exploitations in the US and around the world
need more?

attempts at drilling for oil in the national wildlife refuge
thinks homosexuals are "sinners" and will do everything in his power to stop gay marriage.
larget budget crises in decades
pulled out of the Kyoto Agreement on global warming (agreed on by 178 other counrties
companies are allowed to release 3x the amount of mercury into the environment under bush legistlation (ironically called the clean skies initiative)

ok now. lets get this started
:sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper:
thats what we needed in iraq. not 400 billion of americans money.
lets see, oh yes FEMA
lets not forget Colin Powells younger son, conveniently appointed as the head of FEMA, who has cleared all the rules preventing things like CLEAR CHANNEL from controlling all the radio stations. Bush as dictator! Next all the subliminal message laws will be gone too!

In the first post you pointed out a few things that would get someone to not vote for bush.

Personally, I wouldn't vote for him after all of that "Oath of Loyalty" bullshit. Then I wouldn't vote for him because of the "Swift boat" vets (Anyone realize that only one of them actually served with Kerry?)

Here's a few reasons I wouldn't vote for bush from his POV:

EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE:
LAW ENFORCEMENT:

I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving under the influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been "lost" and is not available.

MILITARY:

I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam.

COLLEGE:

I graduated from Yale University with a low C average.
I was a cheerleader.

PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:

I ran for U.S. Congress and lost.
I began my career in the oil business in Midland, Texas, in 1975.
I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas.
The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.
I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money.
With the help of my father and our right-wing friends in the oil industry (including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected governor of Texas.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS:

I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union.
During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America.
I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in borrowed money.
I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history.
With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida, and my father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President after losing by over 500,000 votes.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:

I am the first President in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.
I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one billion dollars per week.
I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted th! e U.S. Treasury.
I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history.
I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.
I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.
I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history.
My "poorest millionaire," Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.
I set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips by a U.S. President.
I am the all-time U.S. and world record-holder for receiving the most corporate campaign donations.
My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S. History, Enron.
My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to assure my success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my election decision.
I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against investigation or prosecution.
More time and money was spent investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest corporate rip-offs in history.
I presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed.
I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history.
I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any President in U.S. history.
I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the history of the United States government.
I've broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. history.
I am the first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.
I withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law.
I refused to allow inspectors access to U.S. "prisoners of war" detainees and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.
I am the first President in history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. election).
I set the record for fewest number of press conferences of any President since the advent of television.
I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period.
After taking off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history.
I garnered the most sympathy for the U.S. after the World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most hated country in the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in world history.
I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.
I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. citizens, and the world community.
I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families -- in war time.
In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking Iraq, then blamed the lies on our British friends.
I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security.
I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker Buster," a WMD.
I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden to justice.

RECORDS AND REFERENCES:

All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my father's library, sealed and unavailable for public view.
All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my ! bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-President, attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review.

Bush is going to win this election because he owns the Mid-west.
John Kerry is also going to lose valuable votes becuase of Ralph Nader.
Who agrees with me?

I do NOT. I voted for Nader in 2000, and now I see my mistake. I didn't know what kind of damage Bush could do then, but now I do. I also know alot of other Greens who feel the same way. Besides, even without the Greens, Al Gore still won the popular vote. If it hadn't been for Katherine Harris and Jeb Bush, the whole Florida fiasco wouldn't have happened, and Gore would be in the White House.

And if you don't, please give me a good reason for disliking Bush -

Alright, how about...

- It can't have anything to do with his speech impedement, alliance with the Suadis, and reasons for invading Iraq (none of that Michael Moore crap).
- I would like to see some reasons dealing with domestic issues.

Oh please, that's easy. Come on, Michael Moore "crap"? You're just bitter 'cause it true. How about some Al Franken "crap".

Anyhoo, how about that he (Bush) is an untreated alchoholic(sp?), has never come clean about his cocaine usage, his DUI, being AWOL during a time of war (a highly treasonable offense, I might add), and lying to and misleading Congress and the American People?

As for domestic issues, how about slashing taxes for the rich and at the same time increasing the deficit? How about over 3 million job losses? What about slashing social programs, enviromental programs, pulling out of the Kyoto Protocol? How about never being elected in the first place! Cry as you might, but Bush was appointed by the Supreme Court, not elected.

How about ignoring the signs of a terrorist attack. Clinton did more to combat terrorism than both Reagan and the previous Bush combined. When Slick Willie and crew left office, they handed over an intelligance group made up of Dems and Repubs, specifcally designed to hunt down Osama Bin Ladin and Al-Qaida. When Bush took office (in every sense of the word...), his admistration fired them all.

Nice list!

But you forgot that the Rangers traded Sammy Sosa :p

His environmental policy was "consulted" by logging companies.

Something I posted in General a while ago that never got an answer:

Whenever I see Kerry pracing about and bragging about his (4-month) war record and the three (1 which he most certainly did not deserve and two more which were *petitioned for*) purple hearts that go with it, I can't help but be a little peeved.

Has Kerry per chance forgot about this little thing called the Cold War? You know, the one that had world leaders hovering their hands over the Big Red Button? The next time that Kerry is bashing Bush over the fact that he was ANG, remember that the aircraft that Bush was trained to fly was designed primarily to deal with Soviet nuclear bombers that could have made a trip over the North Pole and turned the temperature in Washington DC to a warm and balmy 10,000F.

Something I posted in General a while ago that never got an answer:

Whenever I see Kerry pracing about and bragging about his (4-month) war record and the three (1 which he most certainly did not deserve and two more which were *petitioned for*) purple hearts that go with it, I can't help but be a little peeved.

Has Kerry per chance forgot about this little thing called the Cold War? You know, the one that had world leaders hovering their hands over the Big Red Button? The next time that Kerry is bashing Bush over the fact that he was ANG, remember that the aircraft that Bush was trained to fly was designed primarily to deal with Soviet nuclear bombers that could have made a trip over the North Pole and turned the temperature in Washington DC to a warm and balmy 10,000F.


Well a fighter pilot is a fighter pilot. They are not segregated in that they can only train for certain missions.

However, there are still questions to if or not he did serve his term.

Let's not forget the guy that came forth and said he got the shrub into the guard so he would not have to go to Nam.

Finally, how could a barely passing grade get into one of the most prized spots in the guard?

Something I posted in General a while ago that never got an answer:

Whenever I see Kerry pracing about and bragging about his (4-month) war record and the three (1 which he most certainly did not deserve and two more which were *petitioned for*) purple hearts that go with it, I can't help but be a little peeved.

Has Kerry per chance forgot about this little thing called the Cold War? You know, the one that had world leaders hovering their hands over the Big Red Button? The next time that Kerry is bashing Bush over the fact that he was ANG, remember that the aircraft that Bush was trained to fly was designed primarily to deal with Soviet nuclear bombers that could have made a trip over the North Pole and turned the temperature in Washington DC to a warm and balmy 10,000F.
The ones that were being phased out? Those planes?

That was four months into his second tour. The four month thing has been parroted so often that I was starting to fall for it.

Are you basing the undeserved purple heart on the testimony of the doctor whose name does not appear on the paper work? If so, why?

There are many people that belive Moores Movie.

Pretty sad...it's been proven to be a pack of lies...

No, a fighter pilot is not a fighter pilot. What roll a pilot plays is determined by what his fighter is designed to do. And I doubt that flying a Delta Dart was any more prized than flying a Thunder Chief, it's just the roll he played. As for his flying scores, does anybody really know what they are, I was under the impression that they weren't public information.

Bush made the right choice by going into Iraq, not only did it take Sadam out of power, but it also limited terrorism.

It's already been proven that Iraq had no connections to Al-Qaida, so the invasion has done little to quell terrorism, and more to create more of it.

I think it was a necessary move, because the Middle East deserves pay back.

PAY BACK!? Oh, reaaaal mature. The Whole Middle East deserves to be punished? "Take that Iraq! Just because a bunch a Saudis attack America, we won't let you get away with it!"

If we do anything about the Extreme Muslims in Asia, they will take over the world - because that is their goal, you know "Jihad", yeah that's right.

Anything? So what about the 'Jihad', what about Bush's 'Crusade'? May I remined you the not one of the Crusades succeded.

They were proven to be a pack of opinnions, actually.

Nice list!

But you forgot that the Rangers traded Sammy Sosa :p

His environmental policy was "consulted" by logging companies.

Ha! Good call!

The ones that were being phased out? Those planes?

Are you basing the undeserved purple heart on the testimony of the doctor whose name does not appear on the paper work? If so, why?

First of all, the F-109 was not being phased out, it was a new aircraft that was entering service to suppliment the F-4.

Secondly, I wasn't aware that any such person existed, that's news to me. No, I'm basing that on the fact that one of his wounds was self-inflicted by shrapnel from his own grenade, which disqualifies his from recieving a Purple Heart.

Bush made the right choice by going into Iraq, not only did it take Sadam out of power, but it also limited terrorism.
I think it was a necessary move, because the Middle East deserves pay back.


Of course, because lets consider how Iraq had absolutly buggerall to do with Al-Qaida or any other terrorist movement.


Has Kerry per chance forgot about this little thing called the Cold War? You know, the one that had world leaders hovering their hands over the Big Red Button? The next time that Kerry is bashing Bush over the fact that he was ANG, remember that the aircraft that Bush was trained to fly was designed primarily to deal with Soviet nuclear bombers that could have made a trip over the North Pole and turned the temperature in Washington DC to a warm and balmy 10,000F.

Well im sure that would be a valid arguement had not Mr Bush been AWOL so often, not to mention the fact when he did turn up he was coked up to his eyeballs. Hell im sure i'd feel so much safer knowing that a coked up alcoholic was in charge of expensive military hardware.

Speaking as a UK citizen im horrified that Mr Bush is in charge of America and im even more disgusted that our Prime Minister is his little bitch.

... remember that the aircraft that Bush was trained to fly was designed primarily to deal with Soviet nuclear bombers that could have made a trip over the North Pole and turned the temperature in Washington DC to a warm and balmy 10,000F.

I can only assume that these aircraft need pilots. Meaning that Dubya would have had to be there to pilot them, yes? 'Cause, y'know, he wasn't.

First of all, the F-109 was not being phased out, it was a new aircraft that was entering service to suppliment the F-4.

Secondly, I wasn't aware that any such person existed, that's news to me. No, I'm basing that on the fact that one of his wounds was self-inflicted by shrapnel from his own grenade, which disqualifies his from recieving a Purple Heart.
I would direct you to the better worded same argument above mine, but hey...

So your basing the self inflected wound on...what? Where are you getting that? Why are these claims somehow more valid then Bush being AWOL? Why don't you have the same standard of legitamicy?

No, a fighter pilot is not a fighter pilot. What roll a pilot plays is determined by what his fighter is designed to do. And I doubt that flying a Delta Dart was any more prized than flying a Thunder Chief, it's just the roll he played. As for his flying scores, does anybody really know what they are, I was under the impression that they weren't public information.

You over look the point.

Do you toss a trained pilot because his plane was fazed out or do you simply train him on the new one?

The plane flown is not a factor. How did so many prop pilots from WWII go on to fly jets?

Bush will win even though i dont support him. He keeps the dedicated Christians happy by appearing Evangelical and mentioning religion in all his speeches and his anti-abortion stance earns him the poor votes.In the poorest region of the USA George Bush won, in 2000, by over 80 percent!!

This is despite having huge tax cuts that benefitted the rich, but not the poor .From these Bush received $36,000. Bush gets the votes of the poor far right christians who work for minimum wage as well as the corporate businessmen and then wealthiest portion of the population.


Just as a footnote i would like to add that:


2 percent of the world's population is British
2 percent of the world's oil is consumed by Britain

5 percent of the world's population is American
25 percent of the world's oil is consumed by America

85 percent of American young adults cant point out where Israel, Iraq and Afghanistan are on a map and.....

10 percent cant point out where the USA is!!!!!

These are confirmed figures and tell the whole truth unlike George Bush.

Vote for Kerry and his fake purple hearts!!!!!

Black Forest, you point is enigmatic to me then, I directly responded to what you posted.

As for everyone else, there is absolutely no proof that GW was AWOL or that he took drugs.

Bush will win even though i dont support him. He keeps the dedicated Christians happy by appearing Evangelical and mentioning religion in all his speeches and his anti-abortion stance earns him the poor votes.In the poorest region of the USA George Bush won, in 2000, by over 80 percent!!

This is despite having huge tax cuts that benefitted the rich, but not the poor .From these Bush received $36,000. Bush gets the votes of the poor far right christians who work for minimum wage as well as the corporate businessmen and then wealthiest portion of the population.


Just as a footnote i would like to add that:


2 percent of the world's population is British
2 percent of the world's oil is consumed by Britain

5 percent of the world's population is American
25 percent of the world's oil is consumed by America

85 percent of American young adults cant point out where Israel, Iraq and Afghanistan are on a map and.....

10 percent cant point out where the USA is!!!!!

These are confirmed figures and tell the whole truth unlike George Bush.

Vote for Kerry and his fake purple hearts!!!!!

And don't forget the old axis powers were Germany, Japan, and Great Britain!

I knew you couldn't trust those dirty limmies! :p

:rolleyes:

It is scary sometimes.

I (Dubya) was a cheerleader.

<insert Phil Sebben voice>

Ha HA! Pom-poms.

</phil Sebben>

Bush will win even though i dont support him. He keeps the dedicated Christians happy by appearing Evangelical and mentioning religion in all his speeches and his anti-abortion stance earns him the poor votes.In the poorest region of the USA George Bush won, in 2000, by over 80 percent!!

This is despite having huge tax cuts that benefitted the rich, but not the poor .From these Bush received $36,000. Bush gets the votes of the poor far right christians who work for minimum wage as well as the corporate businessmen and then wealthiest portion of the population.


Just as a footnote i would like to add that:


2 percent of the world's population is British
2 percent of the world's oil is consumed by Britain

5 percent of the world's population is American
25 percent of the world's oil is consumed by America

85 percent of American young adults cant point out where Israel, Iraq and Afghanistan are on a map and.....

10 percent cant point out where the USA is!!!!!

These are confirmed figures and tell the whole truth unlike George Bush.

Vote for Kerry and his fake purple hearts!!!!!

Nice one. America really has to polish up its educational system, or the shrub may turn into a large tree....

Black Forest, you point is enigmatic to me then, I directly responded to what you posted.

As for everyone else, there is absolutely no proof that GW was AWOL or that he took drugs.

Now don't be using dem big words on us! ;)

Russian Missiles would have invalidated the need for fighters against bombers.

We had an active full out war going. The shrub took the better part of valor and hid out in the guard.

It is a step above using college deferment to doge the draft.

And don't forget the old axis powers were Germany, Japan, and Great Britain!

I knew you couldn't trust those dirty limmies! :p

:rolleyes:

It is scary sometimes.

DAMMMIT LEARN SOME GOD DAMNED HISTORY!!!!!!! The axis powers were Germany, Italy and Japan (not that you could really call japan an axis power). Great Britain was a key member of the ALLIES.

First of all, the F-109 was not being phased out, it was a new aircraft that was entering service to suppliment the F-4.

Secondly, I wasn't aware that any such person existed, that's news to me. No, I'm basing that on the fact that one of his wounds was self-inflicted by shrapnel from his own grenade, which disqualifies his from recieving a Purple Heart.
I'm a little slow on pulling out internet research, so....if you're basing this on an ad you saw, you might want to read this. (http://factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231)

I would like to know why anyone votes for Nader. He won't win, and if the object is to get rid of bush, why "waste" your vote? I shouldn't be talking though, I'm a redsox fan

DAMMMIT LEARN SOME GOD DAMNED HISTORY!!!!!!! The axis powers were Germany, Italy and Japan (not that you could really call japan an axis power). Great Britain was a key member of the ALLIES.

:confused:

Ahh if you are talking about the teens, then no worries.

If you mean me.....pssst hey buddy! Listen closely!

I am making fun of the people who said that.

Considering Granddad was part of the 1st Polish Airborne, I kind of know which side England was on. ;)

Nader has to few votesd to get in the election. Bush can't join the election in Alabama, he waited too lon to be on the ballot. Write ins are the only way legally.
Notice I said " legally"...little things like laws can be passed over by Republicans lol

Purple hearts :In any case, even a "friendly fire" injury can qualify for a purple heart "as long as the 'friendly' projectile or agent was released with the full intent of inflicting damage or destroying enemy troops or equipment," according to the website of the Military Order of the Purple Heart. All agree that rice was being destroyed that day on the assumption that it otherwise might feed Viet Cong fighters.

Because Kerry got all his Purple hearts justly. They are not questionable. Republicans are just trying to make them seem that way.

http://factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231

1) Although the word "Republican" does not appear in the ad, the group's financing is highly partisan. The source of the Swift Boat group's money wasn't known when it first surfaced, but a report filed July 15 with the Internal Revenue Services now shows its initial funding came mainly from a Houston home builder, Bob R. Perry, who has also given millions to the Republican party and Republican candidates, mostly in Texas, including President Bush and Republican Majority Leader Tom DeLay, whose district is near Houston


The Silver Star

Several of those who appear in the ad have signed brief affidavits, and we have posted some of them in the "supporting documents" section to the right for our visitors to evaluate for themselves.

One of those affidavits, signed by George Elliott, quickly became controversial. Elliott is the retired Navy captain who had recommended Kerry for his highest decoration for valor, the Silver Star, which was awarded for events of Feb. 28, 1969, when Kerry beached his boat in the face of an enemy ambush and then pursued and killed an enemy soldier on the shore.

Elliott, who had been Kerry's commanding officer, was quoted by the Boston Globe Aug 6 as saying he had made a "terrible mistake" in signing the affidavit against Kerry, in which Elliott suggested Kerry hadn't told him the truth about how he killed the enemy soldier. Later Elliott signed a second affidavit saying he still stands by the words in the TV ad. But Elliott also made what he called an "immaterial clarification" - saying he has no first-hand information that Kerry was less than forthright about what he did to win the Silver Star.

What Elliott said in the ad is that Kerry "has not been honest about what happened in Viet Nam." In his original affidavit Elliott said Kerry had not been "forthright" in Vietnam. The only example he offered of Kerry not being "honest" or "forthright" was this: "For example, in connection with his Silver Star, I was never informed that he had simply shot a wounded, fleeing Viet Cong in the back.

In the Globe story, Elliott is quoted as saying it was a "terrible mistake" to sign that statement:

George Elliott (Globe account): It was a terrible mistake probably for me to sign the affidavit with those words. I'm the one in trouble here. . . . I knew it was wrong . . . In a hurry I signed it and faxed it back. That was a mistake.

In his second affidavit, however, Elliott downgraded that "terrible mistake" to an "immaterial clarification." He said in the second affidavit:

Elliott (second affidavit): I do not claim to have personal knowledge as to how Kerry shot the wounded, fleeing Viet Cong.

Elliott also said he now believes Kerry shot the man in the back, based on other accounts including a book in which Kerry is quoted as saying of the soldier, "He was running away with a live B-40 (rocket launcher) and, I thought, poised to turn around and fire it." (The book quoted by Elliott is John F. Kerry, The Complete Biography, By The Reporters Who Know Him Best.)

Elliott also says in that second affidavit, "Had I known the facts, I would not have recommended Kerry for the Silver Star for simply pursuing and dispatching a single, wounded, fleeing Viet Cong." That statement is misleading, however. It mischaracterizes the actual basis on which Kerry received his decoration.

The official citations show Kerry was not awarded the Silver Star "for simply pursuing and dispatching" the Viet Cong. In fact, the killing is not even mentioned in two of the three versions of the official citation (see "supporting documents" at right.) The citations - based on what Elliott wrote up at the time - dwell mostly on Kerry's decision to attack rather than flee from two ambushes, including one in which he led a landing party.

The longest of the citations, signed by Vice Admiral Elmo Zumwalt, commander of U.S. naval forces in Vietnam, describes Kerry as killing a fleeing Viet Cong with a loaded rocket launcher. It says that as Kerry beached his boat to attack his second set of ambushers, "an enemy soldier sprang up from his position not ten feet from Patrol Craft Fast 94 and fled. Without hesitation, Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY leaped ashore, pursued the man behind a hooch, and killed him, capturing a B-40 rocket launcher with a round in the chamber."

Two other citations omit any mention of the killing. One was signed by Admiral John J. Hyland, commander in chief of the Pacific Fleet, and the other was signed by the Secretary of the Navy. Both those citations say Kerry attacked his first set of ambushers and that "this daring and courageous tactic surprised the enemy and succeeded in routing a score of enemy soldiers." Later, 800 yards away, Kerry's boat encountered a second ambush and a B-40 rocket exploded "close aboard" Kerry's boat. "With utter disregard for his own safety, and the enemy rockets, he again ordered a charge on the enemy, beached his boat only ten feet away from the VC rocket position, and personally led a landing party ashore in pursuit of the enemy." In these citations there is no mention of enemy casualties at all. Kerry was cited for "extraordinary daring and personal courage . . . in attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire."

Elliott had previously defended Kerry on that score when his record was questioned during his 1996 Senate campaign. At that time Elliott came to Boston and said Kerry acted properly and deserved the Silver Star. And as recently as June, 2003, Elliott called Kerry's Silver Star "well deserved" and his action "courageous" for beaching his boat in the face of an ambush:

Elliott (Boston Globe, June 2003): I ended up writing it up for a Silver Star, which is well deserved, and I have no regrets or second thoughts at all about that. . . . (It) was pretty courageous to turn into an ambush even though you usually find no more than two or three people there.

Elliott now feels differently, and says he has come to believe Kerry didn't deserve his second award for valor, either, based only on what the other anti-Kerry veterans have told him. He told the Globe Aug. 6:

Elliott: I have chosen to believe the other men. I absolutely do not know first hand.

On Aug. 22 an officer who was present supported Kerry's version, breaking a 35-year silence. William B. Rood commanded another Swift Boat during the same operation and was awarded the Bronze Star himself for his role in attacking the Viet Cong ambushers. He said Kerry and he went ashore at the same time after being attacked by several Viet Cong onshore.
Rood said he was the only other officer present. Rood is now an editor on the metropolitan desk of the Chicago Tribune, which published his first-person account of the incident in its Sunday edition. Rood said he had refused all interviews about Kerry's war record, even from reporters for his own paper, until motivated to speak up because Kerry's critics are telling "stories I know to be untrue" and "their version of events has splashed doubt on all of us."

Rood described two Viet Cong ambushes, both of them routed using a tactic devised by Kerry who was in tactical command of a three-boat operation. At the second ambush only the Rood and Kerry boats were attacked.

Rood: Kerry, followed by one member of his crew, jumped ashore and chased a VC behind a hooch--a thatched hut--maybe 15 yards inland from the ambush site. Some who were there that day recall the man being wounded as he ran. Neither I nor Jerry Leeds, our boat's leading petty officer with whom I've checked my recollection of all these events, recalls that, which is no surprise. Recollections of those who go through experiences like that frequently differ.

With our troops involved in the sweep of the first ambush site, Richard Lamberson, a member of my crew, and I also went ashore to search the area. I was checking out the inside of the hooch when I heard gunfire nearby.

Not long after that, Kerry returned, reporting that he had killed the man he chased behind the hooch. He also had picked up a loaded B-40 rocket launcher, which we took back to our base in An Thoi after the operation.

Rood disputed an account of the incident given by John O'Neill in his book "Unfit for Command," which describes the man Kerry chased as a "teenager" in a "loincloth." Rood said, "I have no idea how old the gunner Kerry chased that day was, but both Leeds and I recall that he was a grown man, dressed in the kind of garb the VC usually wore."


The Bronze Star

The most serious allegation in the ad is that Kerry received both the Bronze Star, his second-highest decoration, and his third purple heart, which allowed him to be sent home early, under false pretenses. But that account is flatly contradicted by Jim Rassmann, the former Army Lieutenant whom Kerry rescued that day.

Van O'Dell, a former Navy enlisted man who says he was the gunner on another Swift Boat, states in his affidavit that he was "a few yards away" from Kerry's boat on March 13, 1969 when Kerry pulled Rassman from the water. According to the official medal citations, Kerry's boat was under enemy fire at the time, and Kerry had been wounded when an enemy mine exploded near his own boat. O'Dell insists "there was no fire" at the time, adding: "I did not hear any shots, nor did any hostile fire hit any boats" other than his own, PCF-3.

Others in the ad back up that account. Jack Chenoweth, who was a Lieutenant (junior grade) commanding PCF-3, said Kerry's boat "fled the scene" after a mine blast disabled PCF-3, and returned only later "when it was apparent that there was no return fire." And Larry Thurlow, who says he commanded a third Swift Boat that day, says "Kerry fled while we stayed to fight," and returned only later "after no return fire occurred."

A serious discrepancy in the account of Kerry's accusers came to light Aug. 19, when the Washington Post reported that Navy records describe Thurlow himself as dodging enemy bullets during the same incident, for which Thurlow also was awarded the Bronze Star.

Thurlow's citation - which the Post said it obtained under the Freedom of Information Act - says that "all units began receiving enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks" after the first explosion. The citation describes Thurlow as leaping aboard the damaged PCF-3 and rendering aid "while still under enemy fire," and adds: "His actions and courage in the face of enemy fire . . . were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service."

A separate document that recommended Thurlow for that decoration states that all Thurlow's actions "took place under constant enemy small arms fire." It was signed by Elliott.

The Post quoted Thurlow as saying he had lost his citation years earlier and had been under the impression that he received the award for aiding the damaged boat and its crew, and that his own award would be "fraudulent" if based on his facing enemy fire. The Post reported that, after hearing the citation read to him, Thurlow said: "It's like a Hollywood presentation here, which wasn't the case. . . My personal feeling was always that I got the award for coming to the rescue of the boat that was mined. This casts doubt on anybody's awards. It is sickening and disgusting. . . . I am here to state that we weren't under fire."

None of those in the attack ad by the Swift Boat group actually served on Kerry's boat. And their statements are contrary to the accounts of Kerry and those who served under him.

Jim Rassmann was the Army Special Forces lieutenant whom Kerry plucked from the water. Rassmann has said all along that he was under sniper fire from both banks of the river when Kerry, wounded, helped him aboard. Rassmann is featured in an earlier Kerry ad, in fact, (see script at left) saying "he (Kerry) risked his life to save mine."

On Aug. 10, Rassmann wrote a vivid account of the rescue in the Wall Street Journal that contradicts the Kerry accusers. Rassmann said that after the first explosion that disabled PCF-3:

Rassmann: Machine-gun fire erupted from both banks of the river and a second explosion followed moments later. The second blast blew me off John's swift boat, PCF-94, throwing me into the river. Fearing that the other boats would run me over, I swam to the bottom of the river and stayed there as long as I could hold my breath.

When I surfaced, all the swift boats had left, and I was alone taking fire from both banks. To avoid the incoming fire I repeatedly swam under water as long as I could hold my breath, attempting to make it to the north bank of the river. I thought I would die right there. The odds were against me avoiding the incoming fire and, even if I made it out of the river, I thought I thought I'd be captured and executed. Kerry must have seen me in the water and directed his driver, Del Sandusky, to turn the boat around. Kerry's boat ran up to me in the water, bow on, and I was able to climb up a cargo net to the lip of the deck. But, because I was nearly upside down, I couldn't make it over the edge of the deck. This left me hanging out in the open, a perfect target. John, already wounded by the explosion that threw me off his boat, came out onto the bow, exposing himself to the fire directed at us from the jungle, and pulled me aboard.

Rassmann said he recommended Kerry for the Silver Star for that action, and learned only later that the Bronze Star had been awarded instead. "To this day I still believe he deserved the Silver Star for his courage," he wrote. Rassmann described himself as a retired lieutenant with the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department. "I am a Republican, and for more than 30 years I have largely voted for Republicans," Rassmann said. But he said Kerry "will be a great commander in chief."

"This smear campaign has been launched by people without decency," Rassmann said. "Their new charges are false; their stories are fabricated, made up by people who did not serve with Kerry in Vietnam."

On Aug. 22 the Washington Post quoted a new eyewitness in support of Kerry's version. The Post said it had independently contacted Wayne D. Langhofer, who manned a machine gun aboard PCF-43, the boat directly behind Kerry's, and that Langhofer said he distinctly remembered the "clack, clack, clack" of enemy AK-47 assault rifles.

Langhofer: There was a lot of firing going on, and it came from both sides of the river.





The Third Purple Heart

The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth further says Kerry didn't deserve his third purple heart, which was received for shrapnel wounds in left buttocks and contusions on right forearm. The Swift Boat group's affidavits state that the wound in Kerry's backside happened earlier that day in an accident. "Kerry inadvertently wounded himself in the fanny," Thurlow said in his affidavit, "by throwing a grenade too close (to destroy a rice supply) and suffered minor shrapnel wounds."

The grenade incident is actually supported by Kerry's own account, but the shrapnel wound was only part of the basis for Kerry's third purple heart according to official documents. The evidence here is contradictory.

Kerry's account is in the book Tour of Duty by Douglas Brinkley, who based it largely on Kerry's own Vietnam diaries and 12 hours of interviews with Kerry. "I got a piece of small grenade in my ass from one of the rice-bin explosions and then we started to move back to the boats," Kerry is quoted as saying on page 313. In that account, Kerry says his arm was hurt later, after the mine blast that disabled PCF-3, when a second explosion rocked his own boat. "The concussion threw me violently against the bulkhead on the door and I smashed my arm," Kerry says on page 314.

And according to a Navy casualty report released by the Kerry campaign, the third purple heart was received for "shrapnel wounds in left buttocks and contusions on his right forearm when a mine detonated close aboard PCF-94," Kerry's boat. As a matter of strict grammar, the report doesn't state that both injuries were received as a result of the mine explosion, only the arm injury.

The official citation for Kerry's Bronze Star refers only to his arm injury, not to the shrapnel wound to his rear. It says he performed the rescue "from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain." The description of Kerry's arm "bleeding" isn't consistent with the description of a "contusion," or bruise.

Rassmann's Aug. 10 Wall Street Journal article states that Kerry's arm was "wounded by the explosion that threw me off his boat," which would make that wound clearly enemy-inflicted.

In any case, even a "friendly fire" injury can qualify for a purple heart "as long as the 'friendly' projectile or agent was released with the full intent of inflicting damage or destroying enemy troops or equipment," according to the website of the Military Order of the Purple Heart. All agree that rice was being destroyed that day on the assumption that it otherwise might feed Viet Cong fighters.

Another major discrepancy raises a question of how close Kerry's accusers actually were to the rescue of Rassmann. Tour of Duty describes Rassmann's rescue (and the sniper fire) as happening "several hundred yards back" from where the crippled PCF-3 was lying, not "a few yards away," the distance from which the anti-Kerry veterans claim to have witnessed the incident.




First Purple Heart

Two who appear in the ad say Kerry didn't deserve his first purple heart. Louis Letson, a medical officer and Lieutenant Commander, says in the ad that he knows Kerry is lying about his first purple heart because “I treated him for that.” However, medical records provided by the Kerry campaign to FactCheck.org do not list Letson as the “person administering treatment” for Kerry’s injury on December 3, 1968 . The person who signed this sick call report is J.C. Carreon, who is listed as treating Kerry for shrapnel to the left arm.

In his affidavit, Letson says Kerry's wound was self-inflicted and does not merit a purple heart. But that's based on hearsay, and disputed hearsay at that. Letson says “the crewman with Kerry told me there was no hostile fire, and that Kerry had inadvertently wounded himself with an M-79 grenade.” But the Kerry campaign says the two crewmen with Kerry that day deny ever talking to Letson.

On Aug. 17 the Los Angeles Times quoted Letson as giving a slightly different account than the one in his affidavit. The Times quotes him as saying he heard only third-hand that there had been no enemy fire. According to the Times, Letson said that what he heard about Kerry's wounding came not from other crewmen directly, but through some of his own subordinates. Letson was quoted as saying the information came from crewmen who were "just talking to my guys … There was not a firefight -- that's what the guys related. They didn't remember any firing from shore."

Letson also insisted to the Times that he was the one who treated Kerry, removing a tiny shard of shrapnel from Kerry's arm using a pair of tweezers. Letson said Carreon, whose signature appears on Kerry's medical record, was an enlisted man who routinely made record entries on his behalf. Carreon signed as "HM1," indicating he held the enlisted rank of Hospital Corpsman First Class.

Also appearing in the ad is Grant Hibbard, Kerry’s commanding officer at the time. Hibbard’s affidavit says that he “turned down the Purple Heart request,” and recalled Kerry's injury as a "tiny scratch less than from a rose thorn."

That doesn't quite square with Letson's affidavit, which describes shrapnel "lodged in Kerry's arm" (though "barely.")

Hibbard also told the Boston Globe in an interview in April 2004 that he eventually acquiesced about granting Kerry the purple heart.

Hibbard: I do remember some questions on it. . .I finally said, OK if that's what happened. . . do whatever you want

Kerry got the first purple heart after Hibbard left to return to the US .



So how about them apples?

Now don't be using dem big words on us! ;)

Russian Missiles would have invalidated the need for fighters against bombers.

We had an active full out war going. The shrub took the better part of valor and hid out in the guard.

It is a step above using college deferment to doge the draft.

I apologise, its just that the other contents of this thread have really pissed me off.

Let's see. I've got one.

"Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither."

That's Benjamin Franklin if my memory serves me right.

I apologize if someone quoted it earlier.

Any administration encroaching upon basic principles of American society deserves to be removed from the office, publically flogged and thrown in jail. It really does not matter what else the said administration accomplished.

You can make America safe, and you can make America strong, and you can make America proud. But it is all for nothing if in process you destroy that which made the country unique.

Think about that for a while.

Let's see. I've got one.



That's Benjamin Franklin if my memory serves me right.

I apologize if someone quoted it earlier.

Any administration encroaching upon basic principles of American society deserves to be removed from the office, publically flogged and thrown in jail. It really does not matter what else the said administration accomplished.

You can make America safe, and you can make America strong, and you can make America proud. But it is all for nothing if in process you destroy that which made the country unique.

Think about that for a while.

First off, I think you got that quote from another thread in this forum.

I've thought about it for a while....
How is the administration encroaching on our freedom?
I feel very free, maybe if Bush was a Socialist he would have been destroying our country's principles, but hes not.

First off, I think you got that quote from another thread in this forum.

I've thought about it for a while....
How is the administration encroaching on our freedom?
I feel very free, maybe if Bush was a Socialist he would have been destroying our country's principles, but hes not.
Patriot Act, nuff said...
ID tattos they are real and Govt is making them. These little chips go under your skin work like a barcode.

DAMMMIT LEARN SOME GOD DAMNED HISTORY!!!!!!! The axis powers were Germany, Italy and Japan (not that you could really call japan an axis power). Great Britain was a key member of the ALLIES.

He was mockingly stating the fact that a large number of teens think Great Britain was an axis power. And besides, the Axis powers were Japan, Germany, Italy (Socialist Republic), Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Hungary, Slovakia, and at times nations of the Levant and Iraq.

Patriot Act - yeah, call me when it happens.

Patriot Act - yeah, call me when it happens.
Patriot Act 2 is coming, can't wait for all the more injustices.

All of those are only showing an increase when campared to last year. The reason for that is Bush drove them so far down in his first two years that anyone could bring them up a little. Campare them to how it was in Clintons term and you will see what a crapy job Bush has done


^^^^
"Don't be economic girly-man!!!"-Arnold Schwarzenegger

We need results not funny quotes!!!!

*The economy has grown 4.8% in the past year, as fast as any year in nearly two decades.

But not up when compared to the Clinton years!
Why are you just camparing it to last year? What about the two years before that when Bush destroyed our economy.

*Productivity grew at the fastest 3-year rate in more than 50 years.

Only in the manufacturing area. Over all JOBS are still down for Bushes term.

*Since last August, over 1.5 million new jobs have been created.
And over 2 million have been lost.

*The unemployment rate has fallen from 6.3 to 5.6 percent, below the average of the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s.

That is simply not true. The 1990s saw the best employment rates in histroy.

*Employment over the last year was up in 41 of the 50 states, and the unemployment rate was down in 47 of the 50 states.

But not up when compared to the Clinton years!

*Real after-tax incomes are up by 11 percent since December 2000. This increase is mostly due to the President’s tax relief and is substantially better than those following the last recession.

Cannot argue with that one. The tax cuts where a good idea.

*Homeownership rates are at record levels – nearly seven out of ten American families own their own home today.

*Household wealth is near a record high.

*Consumer confidence is up from the levels seen at this time last year and is in the upper third of its historical range.

But not up when compareed to the Clinton years!

*Inflation remains low by historical standards, as do mortgage rates.

The truly sad part is even with all these faults on Bush I am not sure kerry will do any better. But I know that Bush wont.

Bush made the right choice by going into Iraq, not only did it take Sadam out of power, but it also limited terrorism.
I think it was a necessary move, because the Middle East deserves pay back.

If we do anything about the Extreme Muslims in Asia, they will take over the world - because that is their goal, you know "Jihad", yeah that's right.

Saying that the reason to attack Iraq is that the Middle East deserves payback is like telling someone to bomb all of North America because they don't like America.

Saying that the reason to attack Iraq is that the Middle East deserves payback is like telling someone to bomb all of North America because they don't like America.
Your not the agents for the Terrorist are you because you sure give them a good analogy. Just kidding, Terrorist aren't smart enough to go on Nation States. (Maybe i can get them out of hiding)

DAMMMIT LEARN SOME GOD DAMNED HISTORY!!!!!!! The axis powers were Germany, Italy and Japan (not that you could really call japan an axis power). Great Britain was a key member of the ALLIES.


so why doesn't Japan qualify as an axis power?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripartite_Pact

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_Power

i hate you

so why doesn't Japan qualify as an axis power?

i hate you

Meh, no country that came up with anime and manga can be truly evil (and all axis countrys are naturally evil =) )

Your not the agents for the Terrorist are you because you sure give them a good analogy. Just kidding, Terrorist aren't smart enough to go on Nation States. (Maybe i can get them out of hiding)

Haha, no I'm not a terrorist, far from it. I'm just a 15 year old girl that's procrastinating from doing my summer reading assignment.

Japan was an axis power because it had an alliance with Germany, furthermore, after Germany surrendured, America had to fight Japan for a couple of years. The fighting remained in stalemate as both sides suffered terrible losses - millions of soldiers were killed. Then President Truman warned Japan that he would bomb them, but they just disregarded it, so then America dropped an Atomic Bomb on both Hiroshima and Nagaski killing millions of innocent people - THE END

Japan was an axis power because it had an alliance with Germany, furthermore, after Germany surrendured, America had to fight Japan for a couple of years. The fighting remained in stalemate as both sides suffered terrible losses - millions of soldiers were killed. Then President Truman warned Japan that he would bomb them, but they just disregarded it, so then America dropped an Atomic Bomb on both Hiroshima and Nagaski killing millions of innocent people - THE END

-blink blink-

A couple years? Are you sure of that ;)

As to millions dead? Well both cities had about 700000 people at the time but from a site.....

Atomic Demographics
Population. The estimated pre-bomb population was 300,000 to 400,000. Because official documents were burned, the exact population is uncertain.
Deaths. With an uncertain population figure, the death toll could only be estimated. According to data submitted to the United Nations by Hiroshima City in 1976, the death count reached 140,000 (plus or minus 10,000) by the end of December, 1945.
Health Card Holders. Persons qualifying for treatment under the A-bomb Victims Medical Care law of 1957 received Health Cards; holders as of March 31, 1990, numbered 352,550.
Nagasaki. The atomic bomb dropped on Nagasaki exploded at 11:02 A.M. on August 9. Using plutonium with an explosive power of 20 kilotons of TNT-equivalent, it left an estimated 70,000 dead by the end of 1945, although both population and the deaths are uncertain.

blink blink

Ok so maybe it was more like 8 months, but still America lost well over a 100,000 troops and so did Japan.
It was no walk in the park, buddy.

BTW the name of the bomb dropped on Hiroshima was "Little Boy"
The one dropped on Nagasaki was called "Fat Man"
lol

bump

^^^^
"Don't be economic girly-man!!!"-Arnold Schwarzenegger

*The economy has grown 4.8% in the past year, as fast as any year in nearly two decades.

*Productivity grew at the fastest 3-year rate in more than 50 years.

*Since last August, over 1.5 million new jobs have been created.

*The unemployment rate has fallen from 6.3 to 5.6 percent, below the average of the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s.

*Employment over the last year was up in 41 of the 50 states, and the unemployment rate was down in 47 of the 50 states.

*Real after-tax incomes are up by 11 percent since December 2000. This increase is mostly due to the President’s tax relief and is substantially better than those following the last recession.

*Homeownership rates are at record levels – nearly seven out of ten American families own their own home today.

*Household wealth is near a record high.

*Consumer confidence is up from the levels seen at this time last year and is in the upper third of its historical range.

*Inflation remains low by historical standards, as do mortgage rates.
I suggest you read the followig:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=557746
If you want I'll print it out here.

Quotes are from Jew Power Land, post #9:

*Since last August, over 1.5 million new jobs have been created.
*The unemployment rate has fallen from 6.3 to 5.6 percent, below the average of the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s.
*Employment over the last year was up in 41 of the 50 states, and the unemployment rate was down in 47 of the 50 states.
9.3m Number of US unemployed in April 2004.
2.3m Number of Americans who lost their jobs during first three Years of the Bush administration.
22m Number of jobs gained during Clinton's eight years in office.

*The economy has grown 4.8% in the past year, as fast as any year in nearly two decades.
*Productivity grew at the fastest 3-year rate in more than 50 years.
*Consumer confidence is up from the levels seen at this time last year and is in the upper third of its historical range.
4.7m Number of bankruptcies that were declared during Bush's first three years in office.
2002 The worst year for major markets since the recession of the 1970s.
$489bn The US trade deficit in 2003, the worst in history for a single year.
$5.6tr Projected national surplus forecast by the end of the decade when Bush took office in 2001.
$7.22tr US national debt by mid-2004.
(You can certainly get an impressive 'growth' rate when the economy has shrunk so much already! ;) )


*Real after-tax incomes are up by 11 percent since December 2000. This increase is mostly due to the President’s tax relief and is substantially better than those following the last recession.
75 % of Americans unaffected by Bush's sweeping 2003 cuts in capital gains and dividends taxes.
$42,000 Average savings members of Bush's cabinet received in 2003 as a result of cuts in capital gains and dividends taxes.
87% of American families in April 2004 who say they have felt no benefit from Bush's tax cuts.
39% of tax cuts that will go to the top 1 per cent of American families when fully phased in.
49% of Americans in April 2004 who found that their taxes had actually gone up since Bush took office.
88% of American families who will save less than $100 on their 2006 federal taxes as a result of 2003 cut in capital gains and dividends taxes.
$30,858 Amount Bush himself saved in taxes in 2003.

Security definetly did increase buddy, I feel safer in NY City and airports with the national gaurd walking around carrying M-16's.
There haven't been any terrorist attacks or anything like that, so security is much better now.


22,600 Number of planes carrying unscreened cargo that fly into New York each month.
5% (estimated) of US air cargo that is screened, including cargo transported on passenger planes.
95% of foreign goods that arrive in the United States by sea.
2% of those goods subjected to thorough inspection.
$5.5bn (estimated) cost to secure fully US ports over the Next decade.
$0 Amount Bush allocated for port security in 2003.
$46m Amount the Bush administration has budgeted for port security in 2005.
$94.40 Amount allocated per person for homeland security in American Samoa.
$36 Amount allocated per person for homeland security in Wyoming, Vice-President Cheney's home state.
$77.92 Amount allocated per person in New Haven, Connecticut, home of Yale University, Bush's alma mater.
$17 Amount allocated per person in New York state.
$5.87 Amount allocated per person in New York City.





Do you still feel safe? ;)

- I would like to see some reasons dealing with domestic issues.

Highly educated people, especially scientists, are unlikely to vote for him.

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_environment/rsi/page.cfm?pageID=1449

Read that and take the link to the original report in February.

http://www.kontraband.com/show/show.asp?ID=1571&NEXTID=0&PREVID=0&DISPLAYORDER=20040907151253&CAT=movies&NSFW=

Given the historical context of people losing the election even though having the popular vote. The Democrats would stand a much better chance of winning the election if Gore ran instead of Kerry.

9.3m Number of US unemployed in April 2004.
2.3m Number of Americans who lost their jobs during first three Years of the Bush administration.
22m Number of jobs gained during Clinton's eight years in office.

Hey and statistics alone mean nothing. Let's not forget that the tech boom of the Clinton era (which would have happened no matter who was in office) artificially inflated the job market in America and the world. What does that mean? It means more jobs were created than the market and economy could maintain....which lead to...the technology bust. Which started the very end of Clinton's term and landed right on Bush. And then 9/11. The fatc that the recession was so short and minor is actually a strong testament to the Bush presidency.

4.7m Number of bankruptcies that were declared during Bush's first three years in office.
2002 The worst year for major markets since the recession of the 1970s.
$489bn The US trade deficit in 2003, the worst in history for a single year.
$5.6tr Projected national surplus forecast by the end of the decade when Bush took office in 2001.
$7.22tr US national debt by mid-2004.

Again, these numbers are taking in no account for the burst of the tech bubble or the 9/11 disaster. If Clinton era over-taxation had continued during the recession, the US economy would seriously be in the hole right now.

Highly educated people, especially scientists, are unlikely to vote for him.

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_environment/rsi/page.cfm?pageID=1449

Read that and take the link to the original report in February.

No answers? Does that mean everyone agrees this is a damn good domestic issue on which Bush is dead wrong?