NationStates Jolt Archive

Allright, many people have been pissed at the SBVFT because they have said that the criticism of Kerry gaining the medals was unfounded, questionable, etc. Anyhoo, you may debate that somewhere else, because this thread is not about that subject. He may or may not have rightly won the medals, but that is not the point. For the SBVFT, that was only Round 1. Round 2 is much more important.

Round 2, for the Swift Boat Vets for Truth, is the based on truly undisputable facts. The truth is that John Kerry came back from Vietnam, and immediately started slandering the names of the soldiers he fought with. He called them war criminals, he called them baby-killers. Keep in mind, these men that he called war criminals were still in Vietnam fighting, while he betrayed them at home.

In a famous protest, John Kerry threw his medals over the fence onto the White House lawn. Now, originally, he said he threw his medals over the fence. Then, he revised this to he threw someone elses medals over the fence. Then, this was revised to he threw his ribbons over the fence, but not his medals. John Kerry claims he still has his medals, and this may or may not be true.

The important thing is that John Kerry betrayed his comrades and fellow soldiers from Vietnam, and now they are fighting back. They would at least not want this man to be the supreme commander of all America's military, after what he has done, and how he has treated them. John Kerry has never reached out to those veterans, and so they are fighting back. Even Jane Fonda, Hanoi Jane, who sat on a North Vietnamese tank holding an automatic weapon, apologized for her actions. But John Kerry has not. So the Swift Boat veterans are fighting back.

Allright, many people have been pissed at the SBVFT because they have said that the criticism of Kerry gaining the medals was unfounded, questionable, etc. Anyhoo, you may debate that somewhere else, because this thread is not about that subject. He may or may not have rightly won the medals, but that is not the point. For the SBVFT, that was only Round 1. Round 2 is much more important.
so they are going to step up the bullshit?

Round 2, for the Swift Boat Vets for Truth, is the based on truly undisputable facts. The truth is that John Kerry came back from Vietnam, and immediately started slandering the names of the soldiers he fought with. He called them war criminals, he called them baby-killers. Keep in mind, these men that he called war criminals were still in Vietnam fighting, while he betrayed them at home.
you can count on generalities and cut quotes taken out of context

In a famous protest, John Kerry threw his medals over the fence onto the White House lawn. Now, originally, he said he threw his medals over the fence. Then, he revised this to he threw someone elses medals over the fence. Then, this was revised to he threw his ribbons over the fence, but not his medals. John Kerry claims he still has his medals, and this may or may not be true.
you know what i like about this? it has ZERO bearing on the election, but the republuicans are going to throw it around like it matters

The important thing is that John Kerry betrayed his comrades and fellow soldiers from Vietnam, and now they are fighting back. They would at least not want this man to be the supreme commander of all America's military, after what he has done, and how he has treated them. John Kerry has never reached out to those veterans, and so they are fighting back. Even Jane Fonda, Hanoi Jane, who sat on a North Vietnamese tank holding an automatic weapon, apologized for her actions. But John Kerry has not. So the Swift Boat veterans are fighting back.
fighting back with lies and truths that are not only libeling kerry but are slandering themselves and other vietnam veterans.

oh so you wouldnt want some one who sees that war is bad and experienced war and was involved in some leadership positions in war to be the commander in chief of the military. but they DO want some one who never saw fighting saction, who lsot his wings by refusing to take a drug test, who had strings pulled for him all his life so he never had to do shit to be the commander in chief?

is it just me or is there an intelligence leak somewhere

Round 2, for the Swift Boat Vets for Truth, is the based on truly undisputable facts. The truth is that John Kerry came back from Vietnam, and immediately started slandering the names of the soldiers he fought with. He called them war criminals, he called them baby-killers. Keep in mind, these men that he called war criminals were still in Vietnam fighting, while he betrayed them at home.

Nothing I have seen suggests that Kerry said *all* the soldiers were war criminals and baby-killers. He was asked about injustices that were going on and he answered. If you really think no one in Vietnam raped anyone or murdered townspeople, then you are rather naive.

Now, much like the Abu G. prison, the soldiers doing that sort of thing were the minority. But even a minority deserves to be called out. Unfortunately, people in general automatically assume you mean *all* the soldiers are evil and start spouting that and it kind of snowballs.

It is now safe to declare susa OWNED!

Actually since you only sare telling half the truth:
a. You either are uninformed: I don't blame your ignorance, it happens to us all.
b. Right wing ditto head, listen Rush Limbaugh etc: Don't lie to us, at least show both sides of the debate...
c. Believe Swift boats showed total truth: You are either naive or trust vets too much.

In truth: Kerry had others speak to him about stuff that hapoen over there. They told him of the horrible deeds done. The Slaughter, the cutting off of thumbs (documented in many books by Vets), destruction for no reason, and oither abuses by soldiers. He in the beggining of the speak tell you this but the SWIFT BOATS Don't include this! Mostly because you can't hate him for telling truth unless you like to lie.
Kerry mostly bomblasted Commanders and other superiors who allowed this to happen or worse ordered it. He didn't directly attack the troops. Not their fault if they are ordered to do something its hard to say no. Many think they don't have a choice in matter when drafted.
And yes he threw his ribbons and someone else's medals of someone who was too disabled to throw themselves. I support that deed.

The important thing is that John Kerry betrayed his comrades and fellow soldiers from Vietnam, and now they are fighting back. They would at least not want this man to be the supreme commander of all America's military, after what he has done, and how he has treated them. John Kerry has never reached out to those veterans, and so they are fighting back. Even Jane Fonda, Hanoi Jane, who sat on a North Vietnamese tank holding an automatic weapon, apologized for her actions. But John Kerry has not. So the Swift Boat veterans are fighting back.
The important thing is John Kerry didn't betray his comrades and fellow soldiers from Vietnam. If they did do bad and horrible things than they betrayed America! And these corrupt men are fighting back with lies.
John Kerry reached out to the Vererans by fighting for their pay; the pay Bush cut recently.
I know nothing of Jane Fonda, but oh well.
John Kery showed by fighting for veterns that actions should speak louder than words. So the SWIFT BOAT are being payed by republicans and are speading lies.

Even Jane Fonda, Hanoi Jane, who sat on a North Vietnamese tank holding an automatic weapon, apologized for her actions. But John Kerry has not. So the Swift Boat veterans are fighting back.

Jane Fonda willfully and deliberately put the lives of POW's in danger. Kerry told about abuses in Vietnam. I fail to see the correlation.

Anyone who says Kerry betrayed his fellow soldiers still in the field didn't read his full, uncut testimony. I guess fighting against an unjust war, telling the truth (does anyone want to claim thet there weren't free fire zones, villiage burnings and other horrible, tragic things happening?) and trying to get the troops back home safely is treasonous, according to the Kerry-bashers.

Maybe his testimony was used to further torment prisoners...of course the fact that he was trying to insure no other prisoners were taken should be completely disregarded. I guess no act is justifiable if it possibly endangers our soldiers in the field...like saying "bring it on." to our enemies, or starting an undermanned war in the first place, or allowing them to go to war without proper body armor, or allowing the Iraqi army to disperse into the countryside in our headlong rush to Bagdad, only to reform later to incite insurrection, or not having enough military police or a properly vigilant leadership in Abu Ghraib to ensure that order remained established, therefore inciting the enemy more than any anti-war protest ever could have, or not having enough troops patrolling the Iraqi borders to insure that foreign fighters and terrorists don't flood into Iraq, or...

It is now safe to declare susa OWNED!
OK, do you have anything to add to this conversation, or will you just insult me?

so they are going to step up the bullshit?Did I say that?


you can count on generalities and cut quotes taken out of contextAlright, find me a document that proves me wrong then.


you know what i like about this? it has ZERO bearing on the election, but the republuicans are going to throw it around like it mattersIf it has no bearing, why is John Kerry basing his whole campaign on it? Why did the DNC look like a Veterans of Foreign Wars meeting?


fighting back with lies and truths that are not only libeling kerry but are slandering themselves and other vietnam veterans.Lies and truths? You may have your own ideas about what is lies and what is truths, but if a truth hurts Kerry, is that bad?

oh so you wouldnt want some one who sees that war is bad and experienced war and was involved in some leadership positions in war to be the commander in chief of the military. but they DO want some one who never saw fighting saction, who lsot his wings by refusing to take a drug test, who had strings pulled for him all his life so he never had to do shit to be the commander in chief?Taking a page from Michael Moore's book, I see. Conspiracy theories, drug tests, strings pulled...

is it just me or is there an intelligence leak somewhereMaybe a common sense leak.

Jane Fonda willfully and deliberately put the lives of POW's in danger. Kerry told about abuses in Vietnam. I fail to see the correlation.
Kerry abused his fellow soldiers.

Jane Fonda willfully and deliberately put the lives of POW's in danger. Kerry told about abuses in Vietnam. I fail to see the correlation.

Actually if you remember the 100 women of the century and how she was removed from the list; she got POWs beaten to death.

One of the vets that protested her name wrote about a visit she did to a POW camp.

The short of it: She walked down the line shaking hands and they tried palming her papers with their names so she could get word out that they were alive.

The bitch took them all then walked over to the commander and handed them over.

He said a few guys were beaten to death that night.

Kerry abused his fellow soldiers.

By pointing out that there were abuses going on in Vietnam?

Does that mean that anyone who testifies against the soldiers who tortured prisoners in Iraq are "abusing their fellow soldiers"?

Actually if you remember the 100 women of the century and how she was removed from the list; she got POWs beaten to death.

One of the vets that protested her name wrote about a visit she did to a POW camp.

The short of it: She walked down the line shaking hands and they tried palming her papers with their names so she could get word out that they were alive.

The bitch took them all then walked over to the commander and handed them over.

He said a few guys were beaten to death that night.

Yeah, that's why I said that she willfully and deliberately put people's lives in danger. Obviously, she's a bitch and should have been shot for treason.

Kerry abused his fellow soldiers.

Wow I didn't know the Nam Vets were so sensitive.

If the swifties were only about Kerry's war record; I would give credence to their claims.

Considering the majority of their donations and Thurman(sp) I tend to wonder about the true agenda.

If they are simply honorable soldiers, then why do they refuse to have their records opened? I don't buy their arguments as it is quiet powerful to say "Have a look, we have nothing to hide, what does Kerry hide?"

I hate to tell you this but just my tiny view point and talking to people; many don't care about his Nam actions.

As Poppy Bush failed to understand. It's the economy stupid.

If the shrub doesn't eliminate the perception that times are bad, he is done.

I just read in the Wallstreet Journal a couple days ago, that about 60% of middle class types, feel things are bad.

Jane Fonda deserves nothing more than swift, brutal execution for treason against the United States of America.

On topic, Kerry brought the storm down on his own head. He was stupid enough to parade his "heroism" in Vietnam on the campaign trail, so the people who were there have the right

Kerry is also admitted war criminal, according to his own testitmony.

Seriously though, if I was a Swift Boat Vet, and I hear some asshole saying I murdered babies, then find out he's running for president, I'd certainly make my voice heard.

Fine. I agree that Fonda made a horrible mistake, and caused misery. I fail to see how this connects to Kerry in any way. Kerry saved the life of a fellow member of the military. Kerry came back and testified about abuses that were proven to be factual. Kerry tried to stop a war that he saw first-hand. If the vietnamese siezed upon that as an opportunity to further degrade our servicement, this is more an idictment on them than Kerry.

Hitler quoted from the Bible to justify his policies, does that mean Jesus was a war criminal?

This link goes the a transcripot of the testimony that was used in the swift boat ads: http://www.c-span.org/2004vote/jkerrytestimony.asp

He clearly states that those were other peoples experiences. He was talking about what other people ADMITTED to doing.

May I recommend a movie you can buy or rent. It should clear up what Kerry did rather nicely. It's called "The Pentagon Papers"

You can find it here.. (True Story)

http://www.bestprices.com/cgi-bin/vlink/097368012448IE

As for a link or two to the true story...

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0817163.html

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB48/

Any one who knows what the US government did during that time and came forward is a hero! You should be damn lucky that Kerry is such a man.