NationStates Jolt Archive

You know how some groups of people (mostly high-school or college kids) try to not conform to society, because they aren't an "individual" if they do. I'm not sure if it is goths or punks or what group it is. But, anyway, my point is, it is impossible to not conform to some kind of society. Because if you decide to "not conform" you become part of the "I'm not conforming to society group". So you really are conforming, in saying that you aren't going to conform. I know that that is probably really confusing, but on my other forum kids are always saying "labels are for soup cans" and are whining about adults judging them. I would post this on that forum, but everytime I try their moderators never let it get to the message board. Anyway, my little rant is over.

Actually, it is possible to not conform...but the punks and goths and such that would like to think they've not conformed have actually conformed to a large group of people I refer to as the non-conformists (but they're conformed).

I'm anti-conformist yet I don't belong to the punk/goth group. It's also the cliques that I truly despise . . .

Actually, it is possible to not conform...but the punks and goths and such that would like to think they've not conformed have actually conformed to a large group of people I refer to as the non-conformists (but they're conformed).

You are right, it is possible. But it amuses me that all the people who think that they haven't conformed are one of the biggest groups in society. I like to think of myself as being fairly close to not being conformed, but I still am in certain ways. I really think that people who aren't conformed are the ones that don't even realize that they aren't.

It is possible to be a non-conformist, but it is impossible to not conform. A non-conformist just doesn't care whether or not he conforms, or to whom. They're still going to fit in with certain societal stereotypes depending on where their desires and interests lie. Goths, punks, rivetheads, hippies, and the like are actually among the MOST conformist people, especially once they get into a mindset of defining who is and is not a "real" goth/punk/etc.

I practice non-conformation by conforming just because of that.

Collared shirts, khaki dress pants and all. I'd wear a suit but the jacket would be unbearable in the heat of the building of our school. Only person in the school who has the balls to do it.

:)

Doesn't applying any type of label to self, create a conformity.


Rather than conforming, or not conforming, would be much easier for people just to be themselfs, aye?

Oh and perhaps we as a whole could stop with the fascinating need to group, cataloge and put everything right down into its only little catagory.

I do think it is bad to be TOO conformed. The "prep" group, a.k.a. the snottiest girls in school, all look exactly the same. They all wear tight little T-shirts, tight jeans or capris, and over the summer all got the EXACT same choppy short hair cut. It is sickening! When they walk down the hallway they look like a pack of giggling Barbie dolls!

Going to highschool five days a week, I've seen in a matter of months, people that, I can't say I know, but know of, turn from regular kids to punk/goth socialites for absolutely no reason other than that their friends are doing it. They claim to be non-conformist, but in reality, it is purely trendy.

Kudos to the brave souls who actually admit that they do it for the dress. But it makes my blood boil when these dramatic goths complain about how their life sucks and their parents don't treat them like adults and that society wants to make them commit suicide...

1. Your life can't suck that bad when you can pay $45 for a pair of creepy pants from Hot Topic.
2. Your parents don't treat you like adults because you aren't adults.

I'm simply ashamed of my generation.

You know how some groups of people (mostly high-school or college kids) try to not conform to society, because they aren't an "individual" if they do. I'm not sure if it is goths or punks or what group it is. But, anyway, my point is, it is impossible to not conform to some kind of society. Because if you decide to "not conform" you become part of the "I'm not conforming to society group". So you really are conforming, in saying that you aren't going to conform. I know that that is probably really confusing, but on my other forum kids are always saying "labels are for soup cans" and are whining about adults judging them. I would post this on that forum, but everytime I try their moderators never let it get to the message board. Anyway, my little rant is over.

Some people call me punk, some call me skinhead, some call me who-the-fuck-knows-what. But I don't care. Individualism is a fake. Whether you are a punk, a skinhead, leftwing-alternative tick, junky or anything else you still have your place at the edge of society, and you're always conform to at least one group you symphatize with. Whenever you count yourselves as members of a subcultural group, may it punk, gothic, metalhead, skinhead, hooligan, whatever, you become part of society, part of the conformity you are supposed to refuse. That's the phenomenon of so called "subcultural scences" that have been established a long time before. You may be an "individual" as long as you're the only one of your kind, but from the moment when two or three of your kind meet, there's some kind of a scene which makes the whole thing conform with some kind of society rules, even if you don't want this to happen. This is at least my experience with all this crap.

"Call me punk, call me skin, call me the incarnation of sin - but I don't wanna be like you, I just wanna be me!"

I personally am a punk *points and winks at mohawk and combat boots* and i can tell u that we are just a self-centered social fad. :headbang: As much as i hate to say it, everyone needs to feel like they belong and punk is just a group of hypocritical neo-hippies. (i lean more towards a hippie than a punk) take it from an insider whos listening to "What the Fuck Will Change?" THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS COMPLETE UNCONFORMITY ONLY UNCONFORMING TO THE NORM.

damn he beat me to it

I'm a real non-conformist. I don't wear expensive clothes to be cool and I'm probably the only person around who is an anarchist because they support the idea of a stateless, classless society rather than because they want chaos.

I'm a real non-conformist. I don't wear expensive clothes to be cool and I'm probably the only person around who is an anarchist because they support the idea of a stateless, classless society rather than because they want chaos.
Or they are just too stupid to understand what anarchism is and what is means, they just like it because of the sex pistols or somewhat (I call them as I see them).

Oh, and I will personally shoot any neo-nazi's on this board if I find you in real life.

This is one of those frustrating "Driveway/Parkway" observations that masks itself as clever but is really just a misunderstanding of the notions of conformity and human nature. First, seperate the notion of conformity and non-conformity from rabid individuallism. There are 6 billion sucking air right now, a trully orginal in every way human does not exist. Recognize that conformity is in reference to the dominant culture. Don't be a dumbass, you know thats whats meant. Even if the next group down from the largest is large, it is still not the dominant culture and there for not the norm, therefore following it is not conforming to the norm.

Now, recognize that we are pack animals that had to band together so as to not get eaten. It is in our nature to find like minded and adapt to the norms within that group. Now now, don't get excited by the use of the word 'norm,' remember that there is a dominant culture that has a norm and then norms within the smaller cultures, non-conformity without qualification refers to the dominant norm. To quote one of my documentaries, "People don't really want to stand out from the crowd, they want to stand out with a crowd."

So non-conformists conforming in their non-conformity isn't a clever observation, it's just not thought so as to disguise itself as such.

I don't go for a kind of blanket non-conformity, because that's quite hard, and I like drinking tea, and so on and so forth. But there are things I'd rather not conform to, like the work ethic, for example.

These social cliques are developed by the authoritative manipulation [governmental and corporate] of the masses in an effort to create mass consumerism towards their own product. The targeted group flocks to the product under the perception of non-conformity, etc. to inadvertantly fund this capitalist regime. People must not group themselves, that's the only true non-conformity.

God, I need to stop reading Noam Chomsky. ;)

I'm a real non-conformist. I don't wear expensive clothes to be cool and I'm probably the only person around who is an anarchist because they support the idea of a stateless, classless society rather than because they want chaos.

Very adventurous theory, Letila, very adventurous theory. Don't get in that damn elitary stuff most of the communists here and elsewhere in the world are in. You are not the only person here whose ideals are order without governance.

I'm a real non-conformist. I don't wear expensive clothes to be cool and I'm probably the only person around who is an anarchist because they support the idea of a stateless, classless society rather than because they want chaos.
Good for you.

The same could be said for me, I suppose. The word "communist" is still dangerous and exotic, therefore "non-conformist" in the eyes of the ignorant youth. I once met a kid who called himself a communist, but had no understanding in the writings of Marx or the history of the Soviet Union, or any communist/socialist county at that.

To top it all off, he's conservative.

So really, we're dealing with a lot of posers who just like the sounds of things.

These social cliques are developed by the authoritative manipulation [governmental and corporate] of the masses in an effort to create mass consumerism towards their own product. The targeted group flocks to the product under the perception of non-conformity, etc. to inadvertantly fund this capitalist regime. People must not group themselves, that's the only true non-conformity.

God, I need to stop reading Noam Chomsky. ;)
This is really what killed slackers. Being raised by the largest generation with a massive buying power we where momentarily able to slip under the radar and defy a central identifying consumer asthetic, we where simply over educated and under employed. The very notion of slackers, things such as recycled culture (personified eventually as the thrift store chic), was anti-consumerist as a survival mechanism, we didn't have money to buy the latest crap and it wasn't being marketed to us anyway. But then the breakout came, someone tipped the hand and we where sold to like anyone else, executives combed Seattle (even though Linklater had defined the term in Austin Texas, and Copeland's Generation X took place in California, the look-the sellable product came out of Seattle's music scene.) Slacker became a market, rebelion became 'doing the Dew,' and another one bit the dust...

Good for you.

The same could be said for me, I suppose. The word "communist" is still dangerous and exotic, therefore "non-conformist" in the eyes of the ignorant youth. I once met a kid who called himself a communist, but had no understanding in the writings of Marx or the history of the Soviet Union, or any communist/socialist county at that.

To top it all off, he's conservative.

So really, we're dealing with a lot of posers who just like the sounds of things.

So you think, one has to know all the writings by Marx or has to know about history of the SU? C'mon, that's the whole crap why most "communist" organizations never get something done. F*ck this thing about Marx-knowledge, nobody who's sane cares about that. It's more about feeling the injustice in this world. Get back to simple feelings and do not hide behind phrases written by a man who died a hundred years ago!

So you think, one has to know all the writings by Marx or has to know about history of the SU? C'mon, that's the whole crap why most "communist" organizations never get something done. F*ck this thing about Marx-knowledge, nobody who's sane cares about that. It's more about feeling the injustice in this world. Get back to simple feelings and do not hide behind phrases written by a man who died a hundred years ago!
Quite so, but I happen to be a history nazi. And I do think that it's important. Of course the feelings of justice and equality are there! They were certainly there with Marx, and that's how and why the party was created.

So you think, one has to know all the writings by Marx or has to know about history of the SU? C'mon, that's the whole crap why most "communist" organizations never get something done. F*ck this thing about Marx-knowledge, nobody who's sane cares about that. It's more about feeling the injustice in this world. Get back to simple feelings and do not hide behind phrases written by a man who died a hundred years ago!
No, the reason why 'communist' organizations never get anything done is because most citizens United States hates (hates) communism. Call it very good propaganda.

I assume by 'never gets anything done' you are referring only to the United States, as in Europe the Socialists/Communists have done a pretty good job.

well, communism never got anywhere anywhere, thats why socialism failed! if communism had been set up well in the USSR then it could still be here, also if the US hadn't decided a Nuclear Arms race against the USSR was a good idea they might have fed the hungry a bit better!

well, communism never got anywhere anywhere, thats why socialism failed!

Surely you mean that's why Leninism-Stalinism failed?

I don't see what's wrong with conformity, it's a natural occurance, all the people who are non-conformists all join the same groups of non-conformists. You can be an individual without going against the grain.

hey, China's still semi-communist!
(way off topic)

The only reason I think I can maybe call myself unconforming (because nonconformist is an oxyMoronic term by nature) is that I have only individual friends instead of a group or social "circle", and when people do try to label me, I get called a bunch of contradictory things. But I'm sure I can still be categorized just like anyone else.

Hee hee hee. I like the word oxymoron, because a lot of things that are oxymoronic are also just plain moronic, so I add a capital letter or parentheses (hey that reminds me of math) or a hyphen and that makes the double meaning clear.

I can't wait to get back to school.

I am a punk. It's not hard. Just wear NOTHING made after 1989, go vegetarian, or vegan, even better, be an anarchist or communist or an anarcho-communist as I am, hate authority, be open-minded, wear bondage trousers and heaps of leather (this can be difficult is you are vegan, however, go second hand), use the glory of postage to get what you want, support the little man and NEVER buy from big corporations, forget names like Green Day, NOFX and STFU and listen to obscure bands from Sweden, Michigan USA, the United KINGdom, France, Japan and Germany such as Agathocles and Clusterbombunit, attend rallies, take part in your local black bloc, refuse to listen to big documents saying 'how-to-be-a-punk', like this one, abandon dignity, morality and sympathy, read Nietzche, Kropotkin, Chomsky, Marx, Orwell, Kafka, Goldman and Huxley, and scare people... feel free to spit on Christian old ladies, cop cars, conservative war veterans, soldiers, sailors and war memorials, piss on monumnets to the queen or president or whatever and steal and burn the flag. And get drunk, lots. Steal what you need and grow your own food.

No, the reason why 'communist' organizations never get anything done is because most citizens United States hates (hates) communism. Call it very good propaganda.

I assume by 'never gets anything done' you are referring only to the United States, as in Europe the Socialists/Communists have done a pretty good job.

I was talking about all modern socialist/communist parties and organizations after the end of the SU. The problem is, all those people talk about Marx, talk about anti/capitalist theories, talk about society and how it has to be reshaped etc. etc. - But (most of) the people who are concerned with this, all the poor workers, students etc. do not understand anything of this and then are blamed for not having read "The Capital 1 - 3".

I'm pretty fed up with this dogmatic leftwing stuff, more direct action and messages everybody can understand are the things needed.