NationStates Jolt Archive

I was thinking and I realized that if God is really as the Christian fundamentalists portray him, heaven wouldn't be great at all. What could you do that is truly enjoyable? Not much, really.

I was thinking and I realized that if God is really as the Christian fundamentalists portray him, heaven wouldn't be great at all. What could you do that is truly enjoyable? Not much, really.

Better than hell.

other than the fact heaven is a virtual paradise for souls

I was thinking and I realized that if God is really as the Christian fundamentalists portray him, heaven wouldn't be great at all. What could you do that is truly enjoyable? Not much, really.
my idea of hell is existing forever, particularly if i would be eternally surrounded by the willfully ignorant, the sheep-humans, and the type of coward who converts on his death bed. hence, Christian heaven is my hell. burning forever in a lake of fire would suck, but not as much as that "heaven."

other than the fact heaven is a virtual paradise for souls

But WHY?

This is a topic I mull over quite a bit. If Heaven and Hell exist, and are defined by one being an existance of pure good, while the other an existance of pure evil, how can the soul of a human being be happy in either, the human being a creature of both good and evil.

No human could have fun without indulging in some vice or other, relaxation and leisure are slothful. Sports and other kinds of competition breed wrath and envy. Sex indulges in lust. Etc...

As an arguement I have heard many a Christian say that the flesh is what causes these wants and desires, and without which we will be truly good beings. However, this sounds like fundamentally altering my existance, as I have lived my life thusfar a conflicting being of both good and evil, and will be so untill my death. How can a person be judged by his actions as a human being when he is only being tainted by the flesh. If at death all humans become creatures of good, "pure souls", what is there to judge?

Anyways, even if a person gets to heaven with a stained soul, and then is "cleansed" in some way, this still sounds to me like some sort of spiritual lobotamy. Oh well...

Forgive my musings.

Balth.

my idea of hell is existing forever, particularly if i would be eternally surrounded by the willfully ignorant, the sheep-humans, and the type of coward who converts on his death bed. hence, Christian heaven is my hell. burning forever in a lake of fire would suck, but not as much as that "heaven."

That's basically what I was thinking, that and God's idea of perfection is probably vastly different from ours.

other than the fact heaven is a virtual paradise for souls

But how? What is so great about?

But WHY?

This is a topic I mull over quite a bit. If Heaven and Hell exist, and are defined by one being an existance of pure good, while the other an existance of pure evil, how can the soul of a human being be happy in either, the human being a creature of both good and evil.

No human could have fun without indulging in some vice or other, relaxation and leisure are slothful. Sports and other kinds of competition breed wrath and envy. Sex indulges in lust. Etc...

As an arguement I have heard many a Christian say that the flesh is what causes these wants and desires, and without which we will be truly good beings. However, this sounds like fundamentally altering my existance, as I have lived my life thusfar a conflicting being of both good and evil, and will be so untill my death. How can a person be judged by his actions as a human being when he is only being tainted by the flesh. If at death all humans become creatures of good, "pure souls", what is there to judge?

Anyways, even if a person gets to heaven with a stained soul, and then is "cleansed" in some way, this still sounds to me like some sort of spiritual lobotamy. Oh well...

Forgive my musings.

Balth.

You hit the nail on the head. I personally don't like the idea of losing the qualities that make me human and don't think I'd enjoy perfection.

Problem: Heaven is eternal happiness.
Wouldn't we get BORED of eternal happiness?

Problem: Hell is eternal torment.
If we in the afterlife (assuming it exists) are anything like we are now, we'd get used to it.

So we spend eternity bored out of our skullls after long enough. Yay.

Which brings up a bit of an odd point I once thought of regarding heaven and hell, namely, who you'd get for your neighbors.

Demons are, for the most part, better conversationalists.
Angels are, for the most part, cuter.

Suddenly the decision's kind of important again.

But how? What is so great about?
For starters, think of all the cool people who will be there. Oral Roberts, for one. And Pat Robertson (real soon, hopefully). It's a party place!

Ugh... there is no literal, physical description for God by fundamentalist Christians. Nor is there one for heaven. SOME of them maintain that hell is literally fire and brimstone.

The idea of heaven is eternal bliss, due to eternal contact with perfection -simple as that. If you got bored of one thing, by this model, you'd go onto something else that would not be boring. To think that God's idea of perfection -in this model- is different from ours is foolish, becuase by these beliefs God made you, and is absolute perfection himself. He'd know you better than you know yourself.

I prefer to use the phrase 'sugar candy mountain' as it seems to better reflect my feelings the word heaven itself.

No it wouldn't. You can't do anything, how can you have an eternity of pleasure when you can't do anything that feels good. You have no possesions to give. If you give love you are being lusty. It would be incredibly boring, that and soon the angels would devour your soul for it's energy <_< >_>

Ugh... there is no literal, physical description for God by fundamentalist Christians. Nor is there one for heaven. SOME of them maintain that hell is literally fire and brimstone.

The idea of heaven is eternal bliss, due to eternal contact with perfection -simple as that. If you got bored of one thing, by this model, you'd go onto something else that would not be boring. To think that God's idea of perfection -in this model- is different from ours is foolish, becuase by these beliefs God made you, and is absolute perfection himself. He'd know you better than you know yourself.
if God thinks i would want to live forever, in any form, or that i want to be "free" of my physical body, then he clearly doesn't know me well enough.

You think people have any chance in hte slightest of comprehending what heaven would be? Its the equivilent of an ant debating skyscrapper building methods.

Humans would be so limited in comparison to God, it is really amazingly ignorant and egotistical to believe we could even grasp at the concepts of what heaven would be.


So really, no one can form an opinion on it.

You think people have any chance in hte slightest of comprehending what heaven would be? Its the equivilent of an ant debating skyscrapper building methods.

Humans would be so limited in comparison to God, it is really amazingly ignorant and egotistical to believe we could even grasp at the concepts of what heaven would be.


So really, no one can form an opinion on it.
...which is why the thread founder specified one particular vision of heaven to be used in the discussion, a vision that is laid out very specifically and in great detail by those who subscribe to it. please read threads more carefully before you leap to criticize.

Well, let's take Hell: You know, Hell isn't as bad as it's
cracked up to be.
You see, the thing about Heaven, is
that Heaven is for people who like the sort of things that go
on in Heaven, like singing, talking to God, watering pot
plants. Hell, on the other hand, is for people who like the other
sorts of things: adultery, pillage, torture etc...

A catholic once told me that the pope declared hell to be like earth but with an absence of god, and of course you can't well die again. So it's only really bad for disobedient christians like my friend louis, who neither side cares about anyway.

Well actually, no, because that's what the Christian fundamentalists believe. I think peasent peon's being a lot more sensible than most here. How could you get bored of eternal happiness? That sentance doesn't make sense, as it would no longer be eternal happiness if you were bored, would it? And have none of you never really enjoyed something other than sex? Like being nice? Surely that's happiness that's free from sin?
The Christian fundamentalist's view of Heaven is one where those who were saved dwell in the new earth/new heaven combo with jesus, praising him eternally and also growing spiritually. It wouldn't be monotony at all, it would be a whole new lease of life.

But WHY?

This is a topic I mull over quite a bit. If Heaven and Hell exist, and are defined by one being an existance of pure good, while the other an existance of pure evil, how can the soul of a human being be happy in either, the human being a creature of both good and evil.

No human could have fun without indulging in some vice or other, relaxation and leisure are slothful. Sports and other kinds of competition breed wrath and envy. Sex indulges in lust. Etc...

As an arguement I have heard many a Christian say that the flesh is what causes these wants and desires, and without which we will be truly good beings. However, this sounds like fundamentally altering my existance, as I have lived my life thusfar a conflicting being of both good and evil, and will be so untill my death. How can a person be judged by his actions as a human being when he is only being tainted by the flesh. If at death all humans become creatures of good, "pure souls", what is there to judge?

Anyways, even if a person gets to heaven with a stained soul, and then is "cleansed" in some way, this still sounds to me like some sort of spiritual lobotamy. Oh well...

Forgive my musings.

Balth.
I feel the need to say we will be utterly content kind compassionit and all the shit communists say is humanly possible, we will be able to do intersting things in heaven, like a little child staring at stars however I have no Idea what it will be like.

I was thinking and I realized that if God is really as the Christian fundamentalists portray him, heaven wouldn't be great at all. What could you do that is truly enjoyable? Not much, really.

While I'm agnostic myself, I'd like to point out that the Christian God (as well as the deity in all other religion) is being *exploited* by fundamentalists. However the fundies are in very few numbers.

I was thinking and I realized that if God is really as the Christian fundamentalists portray him, heaven wouldn't be great at all. What could you do that is truly enjoyable? Not much, really.
Obviously, you would be infinitely happy all the time in heaven, because it is heaven.

Well actually, no, because that's what the Christian fundamentalists believe. I think peasent peon's being a lot more sensible than most here. How could you get bored of eternal happiness? That sentance doesn't make sense, as it would no longer be eternal happiness if you were bored, would it? And have none of you never really enjoyed something other than sex? Like being nice? Surely that's happiness that's free from sin?
The Christian fundamentalist's view of Heaven is one where those who were saved dwell in the new earth/new heaven combo with jesus, praising him eternally and also growing spiritually. It wouldn't be monotony at all, it would be a whole new lease of life.
the problem is that i don't agree with the Christian definitions of sin; those "sins" exclude some of the most important parts of life, to me. for example, pride is a sin...but having pride in myself and my acheivements is something that makes me very very happy. "lust," whether i act upon it or not, is pleasureable, and any existence where that pleasure was removed would be incomplete and therefore imperfect for me.

also, for me Jesus is a figurehead of beliefs that directly conflict with my life philosophy, so having to exist for eternity in a place where Jesus was in charge would not be perfect for me. to spend eternity praising him would be even worse, nightmarish even.

not to mention that the idea of existing forever, in ANY form, is horrible to me, so there is no way an eternal life could be anything but hell for me.

...which is why the thread founder specified one particular vision of heaven to be used in the discussion, a vision that is laid out very specifically and in great detail by those who subscribe to it. please read threads more carefully before you leap to criticize.



I did read it, its still presumptious and arrogant, so my post stands. I answered what heaven would be like.

So your point?


Or maybe you should read replys more carefully before you leap to criticize.

But my question is how much fun can you have without lust or pride?

I dunno what it's like.

If heaven rocked, wouldn't people be comming down to tell us about it?

Maybe they're having too much fun?

And if hell sucked, wouldn't people be comming up to tell us about it?

Or maybe they're all stuck?



How aobut this:

We'll find out when we get there ;)

Letila, if you ever actually read the Bible, it explains it's your soul that goes to heaven, not your sinful or human urges and intentions. Plus, do you actually take Fundamentalists seriously? I go to a Fundamentalist school and I just let their religious extreme bs go through one ear and come out the other. They are not to be recognized as what the religion is about. Moderates are the majority, in Christianity anyway. Plus, why would need pride after your dead? Wow, I'm proud to be dead or lust? Wow, that soul of that chick is soooooo hot! Just seems a tad strange, doesn't it? Heaven is nothing like earth.

I was thinking and I realized that if God is really as the Christian fundamentalists portray him, heaven wouldn't be great at all. What could you do that is truly enjoyable? Not much, really.

Yes, Letila...Heaven would be Hell. I concur.


Even for you, I doubt there's too many big butted women up there. ;)

Yes, Letila...Heaven would be Hell. I concur.


Even for you, I doubt there's too many big butted women up there. ;)
not that i expect a straight answer, but is this THE Parratoga, back from the dead?

Plus, why would need pride after your dead? Wow, I'm proud to be dead or lust? Wow, that soul of that chick is soooooo hot! Just seems a tad strange, doesn't it? Heaven is nothing like earth.
i would need both of those things and more. the "imperfect" or "sinful" emotions and sensations of life are what make me the person that i am, and without them i would not be myself any more. as i said before, without those things and those experiences i would not be complete, and, being incomplete, could not be perfect or perfectly happy.

and, again, living forever would be hell for me, so that rules out the Christian heaven no matter what :).

not that i expect a straight answer, but is this THE Parratoga, back from the dead?
Means little to me, as no one has posted the old stories, but here's the discussion:
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=353558

the way i was taught it, heaven's doing what ever you love to do when ever you feel like it, some dudes say that heaven is only praising god for ever and ever, well, i agree with them, doing what you love is praising god, cause you do it well! you do it with a kind of skill and craft and all the results of these actions are another sentence in tribute to the big dude upstairs.

me for instance, i'd be spending most of my time building with legos in a null G environment and partyin hard with my buds! i bet i could beat ali at smash brothers, and when i get to heaven, i can prove it! and i'd probably practice martial arts and spar with the greatest fighters ever! it would be wicked kickin awesome! each punch and kick, a coma in my ever growing worship for the alpha and omega.

but while we're here, we gotta rock the jazz pad and fill life with some extreme jolly making!

PS: i just realized i didn't mention sex in my discription of heaven for me. and i realize, that when i'm having fun or building or fighting, i don't really need it that much. hmmm, i need to think about that.

Now, I'm a christian, and as far as I know I'm one of very few to hold this belief, but I don't think heaven or hell are physical places, I think that when you die, your soul goes and your mind either goes to God, and spends the rest of eternity with God, or spends eternity away from God. Now we need to define God. God is hope, love, peace, compassion, trust, and everything good. So heaven is feeling everything good for all eternity, hell is just the opposite, it's an eternity of loneliness, hatred, fear, anger, and everything bad. Basically, hell is like the darkest point in your life, times 10, for all eternity, with no hope of ever feeling better. Heaven, on the other hand, is the times of your life when you've felt themost serene and secure, times ten, for all eternity.

Yes, Letila...Heaven would be Hell. I concur.


Even for you, I doubt there's too many big butted women up there.

Is this the original Parratoga? It can't be.

I did read it, its still presumptious and arrogant, so my post stands. I answered what heaven would be like.

So your point?


Or maybe you should read replys more carefully before you leap to criticize.
your criticism was based on the assertion that we can't possibly know what heaven will be like. that is not being disputed; a specific view of heaven was proposed, and a question asked about THAT vision of heaven. therefore your comment was irrelevant. sorry if that hurts your feelings.

Is this the original Parratoga? It can't be.

I'm baaaack! :D

Are you still "white nationalist" or whatever?

Are you still "white nationalist" or whatever?

Well...I'm a bit more mellow about disscusing my politics if that's what you mean?

personally I wouldnt want to be anywhere for eternity, hence I like the idea of ceasing to exist when we die, much more pleasant then either heaven, hell or limbo