NationStates Jolt Archive

Apparantly, there's been some confusion. According to the communists, socialists, and anarchists, all capitalists are cold, heartless, greedy bastards. They even go as far to make the claim that Bill Gates does not donate to charity.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/truegrowth/gates1.html
Bill Gates’s Money


Whatever the fallout from the federal antitrust suit, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation will be one Gates institution left standing. Patty Stonesifer and her colleagues at the foundation have problems of a different kind: everyone wants a piece of them.

By JEAN STROUSE, author of “Morgan: American Financier.”

Where the Money Goes

o $1 billion over 20 years to establish the Gates Millennium Scholarship Program, which will support promising minority students through college and some kinds of graduate school.
o $750 million over five years to the Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization, which includes the World Health Organization, the Rockefeller Foundation, Unicef, pharmaceutical companies and the World Bank.
o $350 million over three years to teachers, administrators, school districts and schools to improve America’s K-12 education, starting in Washington State.
o $200 million to the Gates Library Program, which is wiring public libraries in America’s poorest communities in an effort to close the “digital divide.”
o $100 million to the Gates Children’s Vaccine Program, which will accelerate delivery of lifesaving vaccines to children in the poorest countries of the world.
o $50 million to the Maternal Mortality Reduction Program, run by the Columbia University School of Public Health.
o $50 million to the Malaria Vaccine Initiative, to conduct research on promising candidates for a malaria vaccine.
o $50 million to an international group called the Alliance for the Prevention of Cervical Cancer.
o $50 million to a fund for global polio eradication, led by the World Health Organization, Unicef, Rotary International and the U.N. Foundation.
o $40 million to the International Vaccine Institute, a research program based in Seoul, South Korea.
o $28 million to Unicef for the elimination of maternal and neonatal tetanus.
o $25 million to the Sequella Global Tuberculosis Foundation.
o $25 million to the International AIDS Vaccine Initiative, which is creating coalitions of research scientists, pharmaceutical companies and governments in developing countries to look for a safe, effective, widely accessible vaccine against AIDS.


One of the ways in which the very rich are different from you and me is that they become public property.

Just about everyone has an opinion about Bill Gates’s business tactics, products, motives, character, house—and about what he should be doing with his immense fortune.
(I would've posted the entire article, but I got this message: The text that you have entered is too long (54584 characters). Please shorten it to 50000 characters long.

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That's a really long article, but the top part with how much money going where is more than enough I think.

As a moderate who leans leftward on social issues, I assume you mean me...

I don't have any problem with people making money, and was already aware of the Gates Foundation and his philanthropic bent. I just feel that the wealthy should pay a tax rate commensurate with their disposable income (and that the poor in our society serve a purpose that is largely unrecognized).

I knew people avoided logical posts...but I didn't know they also avoided logical threads...

thumbs up for Bill Gates

It's not that people IGNORE logical threads. It's simply that there isn't much to argue about in logical threads. :)

Now...if Microsoft stuff actually fucntioned well, then we'd be getting somewhere...

Now...if Microsoft stuff actually fucntioned well, then we'd be getting somewhere...
yea, it'd help if they actually released the final version of something instead of the beta version, but whatever--that's not what this thread is about.

I'm impressed. Enough said.

Proponents of capitalism seem to think that giving things away is inherently altruistic. While it does benefit others, donating to charity can definitely be motivated for self-serving reasons. It can be a good way to show how rich you by being able to give away millions of dollars and not getting a dent in your wealth. It certainly works wonders for his image, as this thread shows, and that is what he wants, to be seen as a good and generous person.

I haven't scrolled down to read Letila's post, but I thought I might just say "I knew it was only a matter of time before someone denied the facts."

Proponents of capitalism seem to think that giving things away is inherently altruistic. While it does benefit others, donating to charity can definitely be motivated for self-serving reasons. It can be a good way to show how rich you by being able to give away millions of dollars and not getting a dent in your wealth. It certainly works wonders for his image, as this thread shows, and that is what he wants, to be seen as a good and generous person.
Who cares what the logic behind the donations is? The fucking fact of the matter is that he donates a whole hell of a lot more money to good causes than you supposed "communists" do, and he's a capitalist...do your part. If more people were like Bill Gates and did there part, we wouldn't have this stupid underpriviledged underclass to use as an excuse for communism anymore.

It's not that people IGNORE logical threads. It's simply that there isn't much to argue about in logical threads. :)
exactamente

Who cares what the logic behind the donations is? The fucking fact of the matter is that he donates a whole hell of a lot more money to good causes than you supposed "communists" do, and he's a capitalist...do your part. If more people were like Bill Gates and did there part, we wouldn't have this stupid underpriviledged underclass to use as an excuse for communism anymore.

My point is that he isn't doing it simply because he's generous. He has definite reasons to do so. In the past, socialists have tried to give people something even greater than charity, freedom and equality, though authoritarians have frequently messed this up in various ways. The greatest gift you can give a beggar isn't money, but a way to fight the system.

My point is that he isn't doing it simply because he's generous. He has definite reasons to do so. In the past, socialists have tried to give people something even greater than charity, freedom and equality, though authoritarians have frequently messed this up in various ways. The greatest gift you can give a beggar isn't money, but a way to fight the system.
By destroying the system, no one has social mobility, and my point wasn't necessarily that Gates is generous (as that's up to personal speculation).

By destroying the system, no one has social mobility, and my point wasn't necessarily that Gates is generous (as that's up to personal speculation).I will defend Bill Gates(cos he is not selfish)...but i will not defend the System....

Letilia has a point...

If we stopped Agricole Subsidies...Africa would have a better chance to stand on their own feets....

There's no such thing as true altruism.

There's no such thing as true altruism.Bill Gates is Generous...what is wrong with that?

He could keep all his money....Like others do...

That's exactly my point. Why bitch about the fact that you're getting money? Especially if NOBODY ever gives anybody anything without at least some sort of reward(no matter how vague) in mind?

Who cares what the logic behind the donations is? The fucking fact of the matter is that he donates a whole hell of a lot more money to good causes than you supposed "communists" do, and he's a capitalist...do your part. If more people were like Bill Gates and did there part, we wouldn't have this stupid underpriviledged underclass to use as an excuse for communism anymore.

We wouldn't, eh?

U.S. monetary policy is, in fact, based upon the idea that a certain few must be unemployed, at least temporarily, and that many more must be permanently underpriveleged, in order for the vast wealth of a priveleged few to retain its value (rather than be eroded by inflation).

This is the thorniest problem in modern capitalism.

Now, while I don't begrudge the wealthy their assets, I feel that those who make this possible (i.e., the poor) deserve at least the most basic consideration for the service they provide. You know, things like a roof over their heads and basic health care...

And, by the way, you should be careful just who you call "stupid." I've met many of your "underpriveleged" who are bright, capable people.

We wouldn't, eh?

U.S. monetary policy is, in fact, based upon the idea that a certain few must be unemployed, at least temporarily, and that many more must be permanently underpriveleged, in order for the vast wealth of a priveleged few to retain its value (rather than be eroded by inflation).

This is the thorniest problem in modern capitalism.

Now, while I don't begrudge the wealthy their assets, I feel that those who make this possible (i.e., the poor) deserve at least the most basic consideration for the service they provide. You know, things like a roof over their heads and basic health care...

And, by the way, you should be careful just who you call "stupid." I've met many of your "underpriveleged" who are bright, capable people.
1) That's why Bill Gates donates. (rhymes)
2) I didn't call the people in that class stupid. I called the class as a whole stupid. It's like I call my Honors Cal class stupid. There aren't any stupid people in it. The teacher isn't stupid. It's just stupid that the class has to exist and I have to deal with it and have to hear people bitch about it all the time.
3) No, we wouldn't have that class because the people that that class empowers would be using some of their wealth to improve the lives of the people who empower them. Well, I guess there would still always be a class on the bottom, but they could be much better off.

Bill is a guy everybody loves to hate.

He has maintained that when his time is up, 75% of his personal wealth will be donated.

Time will tell but if it does and it's used right; we might have to live with the fact that Microsoft actually did something to help human suffering! ;)

Still don't know if that will excuse him for 3.1 though! :D

Proponents of capitalism seem to think that giving things away is inherently altruistic. While it does benefit others, donating to charity can definitely be motivated for self-serving reasons. It can be a good way to show how rich you by being able to give away millions of dollars and not getting a dent in your wealth. It certainly works wonders for his image, as this thread shows, and that is what he wants, to be seen as a good and generous person.


Donating can be motivated by self-serving reasons but that does not make it less noble. What if someone's parent died of Cancer and they donate to major Cancer Research foundations? What if couple who couldn;t have children adopted, and give to orphanages? Those are self-serving in their own way, besides vanity. Infact, if a person were doing it for religious reasons, like giving back because it is preached, it is almost admirable that gospel would drive them to such generosity. And, because your religion is your set of beliefs, it qualifies as self-serving, but the noblest self-serving of all. I'm not stating Gates is religious, but I am stating that self-serving purposes are not necessarily vain.

As far as showing of one's wealth. That's ridiculous. J.Lo bought two twin hotels, built a bridge, and made it her home. Shania Twain pays hundreds of thousands of dollars to mail her precious ponies across the Atlantic from her Switzerland home to go on tour with her in the states. THAT'S flaunting your wealth and proving it won't cause a dent.

Furthermore, take a good look at what charities he gives to.

Of the 13 listed, 10 are medically related, 2 are geared towards higher education, and the remaining one is also education-related by giving technology funds to libraries in the poorest of American communities. Apparently he believes in what he is giving into, and his choices reflect what predilictions his charitable heart has.

Of, speaking of motivation for doing noble things...

The 14th and 15th amendments were passed so that Northern Republicans could keep their position of power in the congress and White House...but blacks have more rights today...

1) That's why Bill Gates donates. (rhymes)
2) I didn't call the people in that class stupid. I called the class as a whole stupid. It's like I call my Honors Cal class stupid. There aren't any stupid people in it. The teacher isn't stupid. It's just stupid that the class has to exist and I have to deal with it and have to hear people bitch about it all the time.
3) No, we wouldn't have that class because the people that that class empowers would be using some of their wealth to improve the lives of the people who empower them. Well, I guess there would still always be a class on the bottom, but they could be much better off.

1. He'd be better off using his vast wealth to reform our political morass.
2. That's splitting hairs. Say what you mean, not an approximation of what you think I think you think you might mean.
3. Indeed, they could be better off... But they aren't... We live in a real world, not in the ivory tower that you currently inhabit.

"we wouldn't have this stupid underpriviledged class to use as an excuse for communism anymore."
The adjective "stupid" is modifying the noun "class"

I didn't say "we wouldn't have all these stupid underpriviledged people"
I did say "we wouldn't have this stupid underpriviledged class"

I said what I meant, you didn't read it right.

1. He'd be better off using his vast wealth to reform our political morass.
How exactly do you suggest he do that? By meddling in politics? Maybe that's not his bag. Maybe he just wants to fulfill what he feels is his moral obligation. Bill Gates is doing exactly as Jesus taught.

How exactly do you suggest he do that? By meddling in politics? Maybe that's not his bag. Maybe he just wants to fulfill what he feels is his moral obligation. Bill Gates is doing exactly as Jesus taught.

Well, there are plently of wealthy folk who feel no such compunction. Nonetheless, if that's not his bag, I can respect that.

But let's not forget that Jesus was really anti-hypocrisy, too, which negates your previous statement, "Who cares what the logic behind the donations is?"

1. He'd be better off using his vast wealth to reform our political morass......God know that the political system needs a lot of refoms...

But people would be scared...to see Bill Gates openly using his vast wealth to redisign our political system...

I would like that to happen....but it would not work....

"we wouldn't have this stupid underpriviledged class to use as an excuse for communism anymore."
The adjective "stupid" is modifying the noun "class"

I didn't say "we wouldn't have all these stupid underpriviledged people"
I did say "we wouldn't have this stupid underpriviledged class"

I said what I meant, you didn't read it right.

Again, splitting hairs.

So if my math is correct, Bill Gates has donated 2,718,000,000 ranging back in some cases as far as 20 years. Not quite 3 billion. At some points, Bill Gates has owned as much as 60 billion dollars in money and assets. Even assuming he paid the entire amount in one year (and rounding up to an even 3 billion), he would be paying just 5% (60 billion, peak) to 13% (40 billion, current) of his total money.

Of course, this doesn't consider that he didn't pay it in one year, and he has certainly had more than 60 billion over the years. In short, he paid what (to him) was a rather insubstantial amount. Not that I don't think his sharing is great, but I don't get the big deal about not even 3 billion dollars.

Again, splitting hairs.
It's not my fault you can't read properly. It's also not my fault you ignored my post about the 14th and 15th amendments.

It's not my fault you can't read properly. It's also not my fault you ignored my post about the 14th and 15th amendments.

Ah, I see... I can't read.

Yes, that's it. You couldn't have conceivably have made a mistake. Nothing's your fault, nothing at all. You are perfect. You are truly a God. All bow down before the mighty Opal Isle. Praise be to the Isle! Amen!

Ah, I see... I can't read.

Yes, that's it. You couldn't have conceivably have made a mistake. Nothing's your fault, nothing at all. You are perfect. You are truly a God. All bow down before the mighty Opal Isle. Praise be to the Isle! Amen!
At least we understand each other now.

I do have to say, though, that I find it telling that the best thing that you can find to whine about is a semantic dispute. ;)

Praise be to the Isle! Amen!

Agreed.

Well, sweet child o' mine, I've got to get off to bed, so I'm afraid that you'll have to find someone else with whom to argue... or you can just argue with yourself.

Which is considerably more pleasant than what our veep has suggested to certain members of congress.