NationStates Jolt Archive

I was looking over some of Mark Fiore's flash cartoons when I came across one w/guns:

http://www.markfiore.com/animation/violence.html

It mentions something about the Assault Weapons Ban expiring this month . . . what do you all think of it?

It expires on the 13th.

I've hinted towards this many a time here.

And the flash is crap

I usually like Fiore... Buinch of hoopla over very little. Stupid law that was just a pain to law abiding people & never stopped anything dies... I'll celebrate it's death! Ooooh, I'll be able to LEGALLY own a detachable mag, pistol grip AND a bayonet all on ONE rifle! :sniper:

The only reason guns cause such problems is because people are so stupid. If we can get across to people how to handle weapons and not to be afraid of everyone, then we would not have nearly as many deaths by guns.

The ancient Roman Senator and social commentator Cicero made a wise observation:
"No beast is more savage than man when given means answerable to his rage."

One fundamental truth the anti-gun lobby fails to address any time they propose new anti-gun legislation:

Criminals, by nature, do not obey laws.

If they did, cocaine would not be obtainable in the US, after all, it's illegal.

Banning guns would only serve the criminal element, because it would create a black-market for them and law-abiding citizens would be less able to protect themselves, their family and their property. Look up some court cases and you will find that the police are not legally resonsible for your protection. If someone breaks into my house, I'm not going to hope that I can fend them off until the police arrives, whenever that may be. I have a great respect for people that are in the law enforcement occupation, unfortunately, I think the failure of the judicial system has hampered their ability to effectively do their duty.

One fundamental truth the anti-gun lobby fails to address any time they propose new anti-gun legislation:

Criminals, by nature, do not obey laws.

If they did, cocaine would not be obtainable in the US, after all, it's illegal.

Banning guns would only serve the criminal element, because it would create a black-market for them and law-abiding citizens would be less able to protect themselves, their family and their property. Look up some court cases and you will find that the police are not legally resonsible for your protection. If someone breaks into my house, I'm not going to hope that I can fend them off until the police arrives, whenever that may be. I have a great respect for people that are in the law enforcement occupation, unfortunately, I think the failure of the judicial system has hampered their ability to effectively do their duty.

Criminals, however, are detered by laws. If murder was legal we'd see far more murders then we see today.

This ban doesnt ban all firearms, it bans those w/a considerable amount of firepower though . . .

This ban doesnt ban all firearms, it bans those w/a considerable amount of firepower though . . .

Actually no, it bans guns that "look" like they have considerable amount of firepower. Many of the guns on the assault weapon ban list have identical versions but with wooden stocks and are not on the list.

This purpose of this ban has always been to make people feel better, not make anyone safer.

The ban does not ban real assault rifles -- firearms with automatic or burst fire capability have required special registration since 1934, but, AFAIK, assault rifles are not actually banned. What it does ban is:
A semiautomatic rifle that can accept a detachable magazine and has more than two or more of the following features: pistol grip, folding or telescoping stock, flash suppressor, threaded barrel, grenade launcher, or bayonet lug.
A semiautomatic shotgun that has more than two of the following features: pistol grip, folding or telescoping stock, detachable magazine, fixed magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds.
A semiautomatic pistol that can accept a detachable magazine that has more than one of the following features: magazine attaches to the pistol outside the grip, threaded barrel, weight of 1.42 kg or more unloaded, barrel shroud, or a semiautomatic version of a fully automatic firearm.
A detachable magazine makes it possible to reload faster than a gun that must have its magazine reloaded by hand, but it can be faster to reload a gun with clips than replacing the magazine. A pistol grip makes shooting more comfortable(?), a folding or telescoping stock makes it easier to conceal or carry a firearm in tight spaces, a flash suppressor prevents the shooter blinding him/herself at night (but does not prevent other people from seeing the flash), a threaded barrel allows a silencer to be mounted (silencers have required registration since 1934, anyway), a grenade launcher launches grenades, a bayonet lug allows a bayonet to be mounted (but there are other ways of mounting bayonets), a barrel shroud allows the shooter's hand to hold that part of the firearm without burning his hand, a high magazine capacity will allow the shooter to shoot longer without reloading, and a magazine outside the pistol's grip may make the gun longer (harder to conceal) and may make reloading less intuitive(?). I don't really understand the reasoning for implementing the ban in the first place.

(The above descriptions of banned items may be off...I don't claim to be an expert.)

Criminals, however, are detered by laws. If murder was legal we'd see far more murders then we see today.

Do you then support capitol punishment? It's the harshest deterent, and pretty much guarantees no repeat offenses.

-----"I usually like Fiore... Buinch of hoopla over very little. Stupid law that was just a pain to law abiding people & never stopped anything dies... I'll celebrate it's death! Ooooh, I'll be able to LEGALLY own a detachable mag, pistol grip AND a bayonet all on ONE rifle! "

You can go buy a assault weapon with all these and more if you want to right now man! But I do agree I can't wait till the ban is up...has anyone seen the newest Russian Shock infantry issued rifle? A barrel that does the recoil for you! Tops my old A1- and A2 for sure. The one good thing about the ban expiring is that when another ban does happen (ultimately some day some loon will think we should try it again) we will have all the new stuff from this decade as well... and the cycle will continue on and on for everyone that is a law abiding citizen and no class III permit for another 10 years here and there.

Criminals, however, are detered by laws. If murder was legal we'd see far more murders then we see today.
If murder were legal it wouldn’t be murder. :p

If murder were legal it wouldn’t be murder. :p
That's the equivalent to saying that if sex was banned, it wouldn't be called sex.

That's the equivalent to saying that if sex was banned, it wouldn't be called sex.

No, it's not. Murder is, by definition, illegal.

What the poster is trying to say, that if killing another human were not illegal, then it wouldn't be classified as murder. It would simply be killing another human.

I actually don't know too much about the ban except for the guns on it. And I know about the guns on it and I say that I would much rather see them harder to get by criminals then easier to get by everyone.

I actually don't know too much about the ban except for the guns on it. And I know about the guns on it and I say that I would much rather see them harder to get by criminals then easier to get by everyone.

But why the assumption that the ban has any affect on the ease of aquiring them by criminals, who by their very nature, ignore the ban in the first place?

The old saying that if guns are outlawed, then only outlaws would own guns can be looked at in two ways.

1.) If guns are outlawed, anyone still owning a gun are now by definition outlaws.

but probably more apropriate to this thread...

2.) If guns are outlawed, outlaws who disobey laws anyway, will be the only ones to continue to possess guns. The law obiding citizens would have turned their guns into whatever mechanism developed for it.

Personally, I dont think it's too smart to hamstring people in their own defense.

----"I actually don't know too much about the ban except for the guns on it. And I know about the guns on it and I say that I would much rather see them harder to get by criminals then easier to get by everyone"

I prefer it when its easier for everyone to get a assualt weapon compared to only criminals having them.

All I can say is I can finally get a G36.

Wait, scratch that. I live in California.

o_O

All I can say is I can finally get a G36.

Wait, scratch that. I live in California.

o_O

Move... there are some localities that have fairly lenient gun laws.
.30 cal, fully automatic anyone?

----"All I can say is I can finally get a G36.,Wait, scratch that. I live in California."

Yea man, there are localities inside cali that allow them np...also I bet the day the ban is lifted sales will sky rocket, as many will be buying just because they think it will be banned again so they can be grandfathered back in. The ban will be the best thing that could of happened for the gun company's... way to go commies let them capitalize even more... :confused:

yea now my guns will be legal!

heh stupid law glad to see it die. :mp5: :mp5: cant wait to finally get some decent priced high cap's for my 10 22 and a 100 round drum for my AK!

That flash was horrible. Let's all throw a ruckus because 1 firearm owner in 10,000 will commit an act of violence in his or her lifetime.

----"yea now my guns will be legal! heh stupid law glad to see it die. cant wait to finally get some decent priced high cap's for my 10 22 and a 100 round drum for my AK!"

I hope you abide by the law even if it is dumb within your state....I was lucky on the 10/22 and AK clips because I already had dozens of them before the ban had happen, but immediatly after I actually made some money because they instantly were worth 5 times more... The gun shows here in Oregon still sale the 100 round drums for AK's for less than 50$ and the butler creek 10/22 clips are about the same lol

No, it's not. Murder is, by definition, illegal.

What the poster is trying to say, that if killing another human were not illegal, then it wouldn't be classified as murder. It would simply be killing another human.
Homicide then.

Fact. Assault Weapons (those that classify as them) are only used in around 2% on average.

Fact. Police have never seen "assault weapons" a problem.

Fact. Gun Availablity and Assault Weapons Ban have done nothing to deter/reduce crimes committed with a firearm. Since it's inaction crime didn't do anything because it never really was a factor in crime in the first place.

Fact. Banning the private sales of firearms does and has never done anything to prevent criminals who aquire their weapons by illegal means.

Fact. Most crimes committed with a firearm already have prior felonies, and cannot own a gun in the first place.


Happy debating And HAVE A NICE DAY!

I have an idea: let's go right to the source of the problem and ban criminals!

If guns cause crime, women cause prostitution. Blast you, Feinstein, Schumer, and Lautenberg.

AWbansunset.com

Fact. Assault Weapons (those that classify as them) are only used in around 2% on average.

Fact. Police have never seen "assault weapons" a problem.

Fact. Gun Availablity and Assault Weapons Ban have done nothing to deter/reduce crimes committed with a firearm. Since it's inaction crime didn't do anything because it never really was a factor in crime in the first place.

Fact. Banning the private sales of firearms does and has never done anything to prevent criminals who aquire their weapons by illegal means.

Fact. Most crimes committed with a firearm already have prior felonies, and cannot own a gun in the first place.


Happy debating And HAVE A NICE DAY!

And yet they buy them from gun shops somehow? I wonder if we banned the sell of them would gun shops not sell them? Good chance.

*Cough cough*Black market!*Cough cough*

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And yet they buy them from gun shops somehow? I wonder if we banned the sell of them would gun shops not sell them? Good chance.

I highly doubt that a significant portion of the "criminal element" purchased their handguns from liscensed dealers.

Criminals with (felony) records are forbidden from owning or carrying guns as it is. How is it adding more levels of restrictions/laws on gun purchasing/ownership would deter them any more than they already are(n't)?

I think it's a good thing: after all, how can you defend your home from the King of England unless you have access to an Armalite or Kalashnikov series...

And think of all the old and infirm who need a reliable, military-style longarm to fend off the hoards of muggers and home invaders! I can't count the number of times I've seen an 80 year old lady on the TV proudly clutching her M16 to her breast, after blowing away 12 Crips who would have otherwise stolen her tea money! Why, if it weren't for good old fashioned excessive firepower in the hands of the public, nobody would be safe at all!

Not to mention how resilient those pesky deer can be - sometimes a simple bolt action .30-06 just doesn't cut it: sometimes a hail of .223 slugs is just what the doctor ordered!

:p ;)

I highly doubt that a significant portion of the "criminal element" purchased their handguns from liscensed dealers.

Criminals with (felony) records are forbidden from owning or carrying guns as it is. How is it adding more levels of restrictions/laws on gun purchasing/ownership would deter them any more than they already are(n't)?
The Snipers Malovo and Muhammed did, so that would have prevented that if we did more work on gun places. Enforcing no selling maybe...

I think it's a good thing: after all, how can you defend your home from the King of England unless you have access to an Armalite or Kalashnikov series...

And think of all the old and infirm who need a reliable, military-style longarm to fend off the hoards of muggers and home invaders! I can't count the number of times I've seen an 80 year old lady on the TV proudly clutching her M16 to her breast, after blowing away 12 Crips who would have otherwise stolen her tea money! Why, if it weren't for good old fashioned excessive firepower in the hands of the public, nobody would be safe at all!

Not to mention how resilient those pesky deer can be - sometimes a simple bolt action .30-06 just doesn't cut it: sometimes a hail of .223 slugs is just what the doctor ordered!

:p ;)

All this is true... the same tho can be argues about cars that go faster than 70 mph. Or alcoholic drinks greater than 3.2%. Or computers that are faster than 1.5 gigHz, etc. There is no need for any of those. There is no need for any more new movies, any more new songs, any more anything new.

If I want to shoot the hell out of a paper target, why is that anyone else's concern? If I want shoot up derelict cars with a .50 cal, why is that anyone else's concern? If I want to shoot a fully automatic .30 cal into the side of a target mound, why is that anyone else's concern?

I think many of you are confused. For one thing, the ban has nothing to do with assault rifles, which are select-fire intermediate caliber infantry weapons. An assault weapon, legally, is a different thing. The only ones who care much about the ban are collectors. You can still buy a semi-auto with a detatchable hi-cap mag, the ban affects things such as bayonets and flash-hiders, which criminals wouldn't care about anyway. The AWB only affects cosmetic features. Any weapon that fires full-auto is regulated by the 1934 National Firearms Act, which requires they be registered and that people pay a tax (and go through shitloads of paperwork) to get an automatic weapon. In 1986, legislation was passed that banned the further importation and manufacture of automatic weapons for commercial sale, and all this accomplished was driving the price up for collectors, since criminals buy them illegally anyway (interesting factoid I got from the History Channel: Since the NFA, there has only been one murder in the U.S. with a legally owned machine gun, and that was by a cop).
Another thing: People here are talking about being able to get, for instance, a G36. Not so. The importation of assault weapons has been banned since 1989, and that ban doesn't have a sunset clause. So no, you can't get a G36, but you can still get the civilian version, the SL8 (which was never banned in the first place).

----"The Snipers Malovo and Muhammed did, so that would have prevented that if we did more work on gun places. Enforcing no selling maybe... "

Ok so by your logic then.... if we burned flag burners they wouldnt burn anymore flags. If we lined up and killed every environmentalist we wouldn't have anymore tree sitters. If all protestors (for the most part) were hung by that tree we wouldnt have any dissent. If we stuck and bled out all the anarchists we wouldn't have to worry about beheading them as eco-terrorists later right?

You see your logic does not work since you are trying to ban something that is a completly legal activity (gun ownership of every variety). Just as it is completly legal to burn the flag and protest and rebel against government. Your trying to go against the wrong crowds because it is an even more uphill battle you can not win and the assualt weapon ban proves (still could have assualt weapons).

You should be after the fella that wants to cause the harm with the legal tool before you try to attack the tool itself, otherwise its like the police banning protest instead of that illegal activity during the protest.

The Snipers Malovo and Muhammed did, so that would have prevented that if we did more work on gun places. Enforcing no selling maybe...

What would have been prevented? And I searched, but I couldnt find that Malvo or Muhammed had criminal records prior to these shootings... other than the restraining order from his first wife.

----"The Snipers Malovo and Muhammed did, so that would have prevented that if we did more work on gun places. Enforcing no selling maybe... "

Ok so by your logic then.... if we burned flag burners they wouldnt burn anymore flags. If we lined up and killed every environmentalist we wouldn't have anymore tree sitters. If all protestors (for the most part) were hung by that tree we wouldnt have any dissent. If we stuck and bled out all the anarchists we wouldn't have to worry about beheading them as eco-terrorists later right?

You see your logic does not work since you are trying to ban something that is a completly legal activity (gun ownership of every variety). Just as it is completly legal to burn the flag and protest and rebel against government. Your trying to go against the wrong crowds because it is an even more uphill battle you can not win and the assualt weapon ban proves (still could have assualt weapons).

You should be after the fella that wants to cause the harm with the legal tool before you try to attack the tool itself, otherwise its like the police banning protest instead of that illegal activity during the protest.

Though I disagree wit hthose solutions on moral grounbds they do work on a Consequentalist view.
Burn flad burners no more of them.
killed all environmentalis (not all are tree sitters), no more of them.
Al protesters killed no more protests.

Apparently you agree that my plan would work...

I think he agrees that your plan is rediculous and a non-starter.

Quote:Originally Posted by Faithfull-freedom
-----"Ok so by your logic then.... if we burned flag burners they wouldnt burn anymore flags. If we lined up and killed every environmentalist we wouldn't have anymore tree sitters. If all protestors (for the most part) were hung by that tree we wouldnt have any dissent. If we stuck and bled out all the anarchists we wouldn't have to worry about beheading them as eco-terrorists later right? You see your logic does not work since you are trying to ban something that is a completly legal activity (gun ownership of every variety). Just as it is completly legal to burn the flag and protest and rebel against government. Your trying to go against the wrong crowds because it is an even more uphill battle you can not win and the assualt weapon ban proves (still could have assualt weapons). You should be after the fella that wants to cause the harm with the legal tool before you try to attack the tool itself, otherwise its like the police banning protest instead of that illegal activity during the protest."


Broadsword wrote:
"Though I disagree wit hthose solutions on moral grounbds they do work on a Consequentalist view.Burn flad burners no more of them.killed all environmentalis (not all are tree sitters), no more of them.Al protesters killed no more protests.Apparently you agree that my plan would work..."

Yes it would work most defiently, so what are you going to be wearing when you go to gauntanamo awaiting your military tribunal (oh thats right a orange jumpsuit)? Still I would rather see mercy on all legal freedoms even ones I disagree with. If there is not more people out there that believe this then im sorry to say your chances of wearing a orange jumpsuit someday, have gone up.

Not to mention how resilient those pesky deer can be - sometimes a simple bolt action .30-06 just doesn't cut it: sometimes a hail of .223 slugs is just what the doctor ordered!

:p ;)

Actually, the .223s are much less powerful. Show mercy: use a .30-06.

I belive gun control is stupid. idoitotic libererals feel they have the right to take away our guns but they don't. Kerry pissed me off futher when he voted to ban semi-auto shotguns/rifles, deer hunting ammo, gun shows, and to blame the gun industry for the acts of criminals. Guns dont kill people or cause crime people do, should we outlaw air planes because criminals use them to kill people? I was blessed to be born is the wonderul US of A and i want to enjoy my right to own whatever guns i want to either for the purpose of collecting, shooting for fun or hunting. :sniper:

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The Snipers Malovo and Muhammed did, so that would have prevented that if we did more work on gun places. Enforcing no selling maybe...

a old unregistered bolt action rifle is capable of taking a president's life. Think I'm bullshiting? Ask JFK!

Point Being, Isolated Incidences aren't good references to how things work.

I belive gun control is stupid. idoitotic libererals feel they have the right to take away our guns but they don't.
I'd say they have EVERY right to stop people murdering others.

should we outlaw air planes because criminals use them to kill people?
There's the difference of planes being originally (and still generally) used for transportation of people and stuff, and guns being originally (and still generally) used to kill animals and people.

Actually some of the first mass produced planes were originally used as weapons of war. Most technology that we use today was derived from military applications. However, we should be putting more effort in to the bigger problems of the world that gun control. For example look at the top ten list of accidental death. Gun related death is 7th, far below auto related death. There is almost 30 deaths from cars to every 1 death from firearms. Take note this is a top ten of only accidental deaths. Guns are not on the top ten list of all causes of death.

Assuming a US population of 287,524,305 you have a one in 191,682 chance of dieing of a gunshot wound in the next yeah and a one in 100, 000 chance of being struck by lightning.

10. Machinery
Deaths per year: 350
We can thank the farmers of America for the inclusion of this particular misfortune as a cause of death. Between corn-huskers and wheat-threshers, is it a wonder? The reason it is last on the list is that there just aren't enough people in farming these days. Ironically, they have all been replaced by machines. Hmm… accident, or deliberate act by wanton machinery? We may never know.

9. Medical & Surgical Complications and Misadventures
Deaths per year: 500
While we are incredibly insensitive people, we did not coin the term "medical misadventure"- the National Safety Council did. How is death by surgeon a "misadventure?" While we're not sure, we suspect that this number refers to elective surgeries that people undertake, such as liposuction. After all, the removal of a brain tumor is not usually considered to be an "adventure."

8. Poisoning by gases
Deaths per year: 700
There's nothing like the smell of napalm in the morning … In this category, you mostly have deaths by carbon monoxide poisoning due to faulty operation of a heating or cooking appliance, or a standing automobile. We assume, however, that the noxious gasses emitted by Uncle Albert qualify too.

7. Firearms
Deaths per year: 1,500
We can thank our second amendment rights for all 1500 of these deaths; call it the "right to die" amendment. You probably don't want to know how many countries in the world do not even have "accidental death by firearms" on their top ten, or their top twenty. Suffice it to say that it's most of them. Of the 1500, you're looking at about 75% young males between the age of 14 and 25 (and getting younger every year), who unintentionally shoot themselves or someone else. For more information on the place of guns in society, click over to our pros and cons section.

6. Suffocation
Deaths per year: 3,300
Call this one the "Heimlich" section, as these deaths mostly resulted from blockages of the respiratory system by food or other objects.

5. Fires and burns
Deaths per year: 3,700
This would include deaths resulting from fires, such as smoke inhalation, falling beams, and sitting through Backdraft. Ironic that cancer is number two on the total deaths list, and a by-product of smoking is responsible for one of the top causes of accidental deaths. Are we getting the picture that this is a dangerous pastime? What kind of warnings do we have to put on these boxes, anyway?

4. Drowning
Deaths per year: 4,000
This includes all sorts of drownings in boat accidents and those resulting from swimming, playing in the water, falling in, or even having a bath. The human body is what, 70% water? And we begin our lives in a watery environment, there's lots of oxygen in water… what's the deal? Something for the scientists to work on.

3. Poisoning by solids and liquids
Deaths per year: 8,600
These would be all your commonly recognized poisons, as well as such items as mushrooms, shellfish, drug overdoses, and problems with medicines-which is a wide category, and why it is so high on the list. What they leave out is things like food poisoning or salmonella, which they classify as "disease deaths" and place on another list.

2. Falls
Deaths per year: 14,900
Then we come to the America's Funniest Home Videos category of accidental death, including falls from ladders, down stairs, over curbs, off buses, into manholes, and through plate glass windows.

1. Motor vehicle crashes
Deaths per year: 43,200
The winner, by a ridiculously huge (and ever-increasing) margin is: death by car wreck. Head on collision, sideswipe, single-vehicle smash-up, full car rollover, pedestrian takedown, choking on own carsick vomit, spontaneous combustion-the fun never stops for car owners. Try air travel instead; it's much safer. Do you see it anywhere on this list?

Firearms deaths can be WAY lower if not every nutter would be able to buy one. It's good that it's only #7, but it's still #7.

A large portion of firearms death seems to be either aquaintance killing (wife kills husband, gang member A kills gang member B, etc.), suicide, or "accidental" killing. Only very rarely do you see somebody go on a shooting rampage. So let's see if banning guns will be able to stop any of these:

1. Aquaintance death. If I wanted to kill somebody I knew over an argument, or because they stole my cookies, I could shoot them. Or strangle them. Or knife them. Or beat them to death. Or run them over using my car. Take away my gun, and I could still strangle or knife them.

2. Suicide. If I wanted to die, I could jump. I could stab myself. I could drink Drano. I could rig up a noose. Point is, there's a billion ways I could take my life without using a gun.

3. "Accidental" death. I say "accidental" because most of the time, they're due to negligence.
Don't leave loaded guns around kids, even for a second. It doesn't take more than a minute of your time to unload a firearm or otherwise render it unable to fire. Then bring the magazine or cartridge or percussion cap with you. That's not too hard. Or take your pistol into the bathroom with you.
Don't do anything stupid, like spin a cocked and loaded single-action pistol or revolver. Once again, not too hard. Read the manual.
Don't drink then shoot, do it the other way around. Drunks and firearms don't mix, just like drinking and driving don't mix. If you ban guns because people kill each other while drunk, shouldn't you ban cars because more people kill each other while drunk? Should we ban food because it's the cause of over double the deaths in America?

If everybody who owned a gun joined the NRA or got some form of firearms training, not only would they shoot more accurately, they would be qualified to handle their firearms more safely.

And some of the conditions which prevent you from legally owning a gun (just reading from the CA Handgun Safety Certificate booklet; you do realize there's a Federal background check by law accompanying every gun purchase now, right?):
1. Prior felony conviction
2. Var. other convictions
3. "Mentally disordered sex offender(s)"
4. "Any person found by a court to be mentally incompetent to stand trial or not guilty by reason of insanity of any crime" or people in mental health facilities
5. Dishonerable discharge from the military
6. People on restraining orders
7. Drug addicts
8. Misc. other reasons
Any of these, and you cannot legally own a gun in California. So many of those who commit violent crimes with guns could not have legally purchased a gun from a gun shop in the first place. So therefore the only people who are affected are law-abiding gun owners. People do steal guns, you know, like bank robbers steal cars to use for transportation. Ban guns, and you instantly make thousands upon thousands who have only shot paper, clay, birds, and deer criminals.

The AW ban was completely symbolic anyways. AW's or "hi cap" (Standard cap, the current magazines are all low cap) have never been responsible for a significant number of crimes.

And before you support a ban on guns, try shooting one of these days. Go to a range, and find out that guns don't work like they do in Hollywood. Go hunting. Go trap shooting. Find out more about what you want to ban. Are you afraid you'll enjoy it? Seriously, whoever designed the new California hangun legislation is a complete idiot middle-manager who knows nothing about engineering. You're talking about adding several degrees of mechanical difficulty onto very compact mechanical devices to add a politically acceptable magazine safety, and give the designers only a year or two to do it. Jeez, good thing for me JM Browning designed the GP35 with a magazine safety.

2. Suicide. If I wanted to die, I could jump. I could stab myself. I could drink Drano. I could rig up a noose. Point is, there's a billion ways I could take my life without using a gun.

Sorry, but you're talking from a point of total ignorance.

Yes, there are an infinite number of ways to commit suicide - the point is, 99% of the rest aren't as "quick and easy" as a gun. Many suicidal people slash their wrists or take a bottle of sleeping pills, and then suddenly are overcome with remorse and second thoughts. They have time to get help, or someone to find them, before they are dead. A gun to the temple, or in the mouth - BOOM. Game over. No second chances, no time for remorse.

A good friend of mine tried to kill himself years ago by slitting his wrists. His sister happened to find him, rush him to hospital, and save him. 10+ years on, he is now a happy, adjusted member of society. He had some serious psychological problems, got professional help, and now is fine. If he had a gun - BOOM - my friend would be six feet under.

Here's a few links on related topics:

http://www.bartow.k12.ga.us/psych/crisis/suestats.htm

- Drug overdose or poisoning is the leading cause of attempters.
- Firearms and explosives are the most common causes of death followed by hanging and poisoning.

http://www.infoline.org/Crisis/stats.asp

- Firearms are the most common method used for completing suicide (55.1% of all suicides were completed with a firearm); that is approximately 16,869 individuals who used firearms in 2001.

http://www.doctorsagainsthandguninjury.org/pdf/firearm_suicide.pdf

- More than half (58%) of all firearm-related deaths are a result of suicide
- 57% of all suicides are committed with a firearm

Now, having said that, I personally don't believe that guns should be banned - I just wanted to correct your (apparently) childish views on suicide :mad:

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