NationStates Jolt Archive

Note: I didn't include a poll on this one because the answer to the question is likely to be extremely complex for most people.

I would appreciate it if y'all would lay out the basis for your moral codes, (assuming you know what it is), and explain the possible reasons for choosing that particular one or set of them.

I'm not trying to encourage a debate about whose moral code is best, I'm just curious about what the people who frequent this forum are rooting their behavior and opinions in because such things fascinate me.

That said, I'll put my money where my mouth is and start this off.

Because morality is largely oriented towards acheiving a particular goal (ie. pleasure, perfection, survival), when I set out the basis for my moral code, I considered what I thought the ultimate goal is. Morality has the effect of (hopefully) regulating behavior, so I also had to consider what behavior would be conducive to the goal(s) I set.

A: I personally think that the ultimate goal is the survival and long-term viability of our species. Therefore, my behavior should be that which helps to achieve that goal. In order to help accomplish that goal, I will need to be alive for a while, so a secondary goal would be my own survival.

B: I think that the required behavior for achieving such a goal is exceedingly complex because of the nature of the system the subject of the goal exists in and the nature of the subject itself, and I will not bore you with the myriad details at this time. I will, however, bore you with them later when I have more time.

Edit: For the purpose of this thread I am defining "moral code" simply as a belief (stated or unstated) about how one should regulate one's own behavior.

From what I beleave is right from what I see is right and wrong not what a book tells me

I take a part of my upringing, that makes me forgiving and able to see a different view
I take a part what I learned from life experience, that makes me able to survive
I take a part of my nature and how it reacts to situations, that makes me flexible

Moral Code? What kind of trickery is this?

My basis for my own morals is 'my own' conscience that 'I believe' to be instilled 'in me' through God, as many Christians will tell you in one form or another. 'I' simply use my society's morality codes as a grounding and direction in following 'my' conscience.

enlightened self interest

i believe strongly in taking lessons from what works or doesnt work for others. i try to see the other guys point of view before losing my cool. i try to work within the legal system. i do what needs to be done. i pay my debts. i dont worry about what other people do when it has no effect on me. i dont confuse "stuff" with happiness. i value family above all. i try not to do stupid things.

is that a moral code? its the best i can do.

I have a moral code to which I believe in, however it's not set in stone. Morality is a very relative thing, it means different things to different people and is subject to change with life experience and as we grow as human beings. I suppose no different then societies moral code changes with the times as well. What was once considered immoral yesterday can today be seen as quite normal. I can come up with a million examples as I'm sure so can any one. I believe if you think what you're doing is right, then that is what is right for you. If you believe what you're doing is wrong, then that's a red flag for you as well. Morality is some what like virtue, so many different ways to define it. People should in my opinion never get a moral code that is unmovable in their thought process as it is limiting. Some times we set morals that are not really achievable and through social conditioning we except morals that are very subjective. So, to give one moral code and say it's the right moral code is a lesson is futility. Do what you believe is right and you should be ok. As long as you can look at yourself in the mirror.

Dont judge someone unless you can look at the "immorality" from their persepctive.


P.S. My moral code is #333-293-3876 in case anyone was interested :-)

To take a leaf from your book, I guess I can put it in terms of a goal: to keep everyone happily and well as much as possible. Though this isn't where I "got" my morality, the Wiccan Rede phrases it well:"And it harm none, do as you will." "Live and let live" is a pretty good summation too. Basically do what you want and let other people do what they want, as long as it doesn't harm anyone; if you make a mistake, do damage control immediately. I think that's pretty simple.

Whats best for me.

In short: Improve the world by being a good example to others.

Personal morality I try to take as much from the Bible as I possibly can, as well as obstaining from all drugs, alcohol and etc. I personally try as best as I can to trust in these morals and do as well as I can.

For others, in general society, I consider it to be ok as long as it doesn't hurt anyone obviously, including yourself. Let's face it folks, there are a lot of people in the world not smart enough to decide on their own that it's a bad idea to drink and drive, to drugs, knock up their girlfriend, contract AIDS, etc. To prevent these things by law I feel are necessary. However, if gay people want to get married, I feel like you should let them. It hurts no one, and yeah, it's a sin, but it takes nothing away from the marriage I'll have with my wife someday. I want to preach the Word to people, not smack them down with it.

As a whole, for a general reference without getting hooked completely on scripture, work with common sense and "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Common sense takes presidence most times, especially when it's a negative reation to something, though not necesarily always.

Eh, it's a way to live, and I'm still working with it. May God work in all of you to see the life he wants you to lead.

-R. S. of UC

Secular humanism, fairness, well-being of humanity, and human rights.

'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'
'Love your neighbour as yourself.'

I don't believe in a moral code. I tend to think more along the lines of a moral core innate in each individual. More of an ethical ideaology, really, and not bound to anything but one's individual experiences with life.

Differences between individuals are more important than Creators or their rules.

For more information, see Taoism (http://www.fact-index.com/t/ta/taoism.html). (clicky)

There is an inheret fallibility to all moral codes, hence, there is little reason to waste time believing any of them. Written moral codes only define moral behavior for a given society at a given time.

To do actions motivated by love and kindness rather than hate.

I don't have morals or ethics. I have what I like to call a system of consequinciality, in which I consider and weigh the outcomes and make my decision based on the most favorable outcome.

Treat others the same way you'd like to be treated

However, if some1 is pissing me off on purpose, I give it back to them at a level capable of dishing it right back while protecting my person (IE so that they don't use physical force against me)

To do actions motivated by love and kindness rather than hate.

What about actions motivated by Love and Peace? :D

Christianity and responsibility to society.

Christianity and responsibility to society.

Those are mutually exclusive. How do you rectify the two?

personal experience and much reading.

Observations.

----"Christianity and responsibility to society.
----"Those are mutually exclusive. How do you rectify the two? "

It speaks of it inside the bible on respecting and adhering to caesar's judgement (society's) as well as Gods. That is why when somone says they are a good Christian they are saying they respect both the laws of God and man.

What about actions motivated by Love and Peace?

Ah yes, good point. I seek the elusive mayfly of Love! I must save both the spider and butterfly!

I have a moral code to which I believe in, however it's not set in stone. Morality is a very relative thing, it means different things to different people and is subject to change with life experience and as we grow as human beings. I suppose no different then societies moral code changes with the times as well. What was once considered immoral yesterday can today be seen as quite normal. I can come up with a million examples as I'm sure so can any one. I believe if you think what you're doing is right, then that is what is right for you. If you believe what you're doing is wrong, then that's a red flag for you as well. Morality is some what like virtue, so many different ways to define it. People should in my opinion never get a moral code that is unmovable in their thought process as it is limiting. Some times we set morals that are not really achievable and through social conditioning we except morals that are very subjective. So, to give one moral code and say it's the right moral code is a lesson is futility. Do what you believe is right and you should be ok. As long as you can look at yourself in the mirror.

Hear hear!

Well, uh, the same for me.

The bible is where i get my morals from. I also follow the military honor code of "I will not lie, steal or cheat, nor tolerate those among us who do us, so help me God"

Do what makes you happy, as long as you don't make anyone else worse off.

are a few axioms from which my moral code evolves from:

1. The primacy of reason and experience. Basically, this just means that everything that is true is true by virtue of there being either a rational or empirical justification for it being so. While an effect of this is that nothing is true purely by virtue of someone saying it's so (hence my disdain for fundamentalism of any breed), it is also true that ultimately all facts can be proven absolutely true or false, whether through experiential data or through logical impossibility, which makes relativism of any sort far too tough to swallow.

This leads me to the second part:

2. There is a single, absolute morality. Most of you long-time Nationstaters know (and generally detest) this point, but I still have in my view a perfectly legitemate argument for why this is so. While I won't go into it here, as I have no reason to and at the very beginning it was stated that this wasn't about argumentation, suffice it to say that moral relativism is a logical impossibility. As the only other option is moral absolutism, I am therefore an absolutist.

From this I get the third part of my moral code:

3. Altruism is the only way to go. From both a logical and an experiential standpoint, egoism only works if you think in the short run, primarily because egoists are quite willing to step on the backs of others and do things that no altruist would consider doing. As Socrates pointed out in his conversation with Thrasymachus in the Republic, however, egoists tend to self-destruct, because their very self-interest causes them to retreat, withdraw, or otherwise escape a situation when it presents them with danger of losing. This makes them inneffective when pitted against an altruist, who has no such reservations or concerns about losing (again, because their concern is usually more about others than their own sake). So if you look long enough down the road, altruism is not just morally correct, it's also what really is in your self-interest as well. This was the source of Socrates' claim that the only true sin was lack of knowledge, because had a person known enough about the situation, he never would have acted sinfully for his own gain.

From this I get the fourth and final point in my moral code:

4. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Looking at it logically, this is the ultimate expression of altruist thought, or at least, there has never been a superior expression in the history of human kind. Ergo, until someone can pull something beyond my own abilities, to say nothing of the abilities of people like Socrates, Confucius, or the Buddha, I'd have to say that Jesus' dictum is a pretty good maxim to live by.

There are a few others that follow from this, such as a basic subscription to Locke's social contract, a general hostility to unrestricted capitalism, and a vitriolic dislike of egoistic doctrines (Rand, for example, grr. . .), but more or less everything falls out of that chain of reasoning.

Basic tenets of my moral code and ideology:

All humans are equal. Period. No exceptions. No, not even for a poor, paraplegic lesbian transexual jew converted to islam voting communist and living in Lybia. She's just as good as anyone else, including myself and you.

Human beings must think for themselves. To allow someone else to dictate what to think is to deny your humanity. Heed sage advice but do not rely on someone to guide you blindly through life.

We must not only strive NOT to make the world a worse place than it already is, but work toward the betterment of our own life and the lives of others according to our means and abilities.

Conflicts must be resolved without violence. Tolerance and acceptance is vital to living in harmony with your neighbours.Poeple are always worth more than any material possessions.

It speaks of it inside the bible on respecting and adhering to caesar's judgement (society's) as well as Gods. That is why when somone says they are a good Christian they are saying they respect both the laws of God and man.


Can't do both. It isn't possible. According to the Bible, God's will is that we may sell our daughters into slavery, must marry any woman we rape, can have our children killed if they're disobedient, and can keep women of conquered nations as slaves.

Just how in the hell does that jibe with current international laws?

----"Can't do both. It isn't possible. According to the Bible, God's will is that we may sell our daughters into slavery, must marry any woman we rape, can have our children killed if they're disobedient, and can keep women of conquered nations as slaves. Just how in the hell does that jibe with current international laws?"

First what bible(s) do you read? Then please print the exerpts for us all to see.

Keruvalia, that statement assumes so much at once it's ridiculous.

As for mine: currently under construction.

I pretty much just try to follow the Wiccan Rede "An it harm none, do what thou wilt".

First what bible(s) do you read? Then please print the exerpts for us all to see.

same one everyone else reads ...

Slavery:
Leviticus 25:44-46
Exodus 21:2-6
Exodus 21:7-11
NT referrences so you can't say Jesus abolished slavery:
Ephesians 6:5
1 Timothy 6:1-2

Murder:
Deuteronomy 17:12
Leviticus 20:13
Leviticus 20:27
Exodus 21:15
Leviticus 20:9
2 Chronicles 15:12-13
Deuteronomy 22:20-21
Isaiah 14:21
Isaiah 13:15-18
NT stuff:
Romans 1:24-32
Acts 5:1-11 (even Peter killed some folks)

Ritual Human Sacrifice:
Judges 11:29-40
Joshua 7:15
1 Kings 13:1-2
2 Kings 23:20-25
Wisdom 14:21-23 (only in the Catholic Bible)
Ezekiel 21:33-37
Deuteronomy 13:13-19

Rape:
Judges 21:10-24
Numbers 31:7-18
Deuteronomy 20:10-14
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (law of rape)
Deuteronomy 22:23-24 (death to the rape victim!)

Now ... go on ... give me some drivel about "symbolism" ...

I've been over this and over this and over this. Written moral codes are only for a certain people at a certain time.

The Bible is shyte ...

I take full responsibility for my actions. Whatever choices I make, I have to live with them. That seems to be enough to keep me in line.

Keruvia these don't tell you to go marry the woman you rape. Your taking a twisted interpretation of the bible for your own. When you state that it is the same Bible that everyone else has, you are wrong. There are numerous translations of the bible with each and every Christian and Catholic sects bringing up contridictions to one another in one form or another. That is because imperfect man has made those traslations through out time to mean what they want it to mean (in many instances). You will never truly know what God wants unless you go and translate it yourself, or take a comprehension class. Have you never heard of the wife beaters bible? Look it up and tell me that this also wasn't just another translation of the Bible for ones own needs.

Keruvia these don't tell you to go marry the woman you rape. Your taking a twisted interpretation of the bible for your own.


14 years of Hebrew classes under my belt, 4 years of Rabbinical training, and I was granted a Semikhah from Hebrew Univeristy in Israel.

I guarantee you that rape, murder, human sacrifice, and all of that is condoned by God under certain circumstances.

Deal with it. Sorry. All written moral code is for specific people at a specific time in history, but none of it is Universal.

If I tell you my moral code, you'll steal my gym socks! :eek:

If I tell you my moral code, you'll steal my gym socks! :eek:


Actually ... I'd probably subscribe to your religion.

Incidently, you're a clown, right? I do puppet work. Not quite the same, but I bet my wrists get more sore. :D

One of the most fun things I do for parties is a gopher and a sheepdog doing Trout Fishing in America's "The Window". The kids love it, but it really makes me sore. Puppet work is a dying art in the digital age ... even Yoda is no longer a puppet. Every modern puppet master I see wants to do the "Guy Smiley" puppet work and shift the upper fingers to move the mouth ... but that's not how mouths work ... the lower jaw moves, not the top of the head.

[/rant]

Yeah, it does give me a lot of fan email from Furries, but oh well ... nobody ever asked me to make the puppets hump .... yet.

Actually ... I'd probably subscribe to your religion.

Incidently, you're a clown, right? I do puppet work. Not quite the same, but I bet my wrists get more sore. :D

One of the most fun things I do for parties is a gopher and a sheepdog doing Trout Fishing in America's "The Window". The kids love it, but it really makes me sore. Puppet work is a dying art in the digital age ... even Yoda is no longer a puppet. Every modern puppet master I see wants to do the "Guy Smiley" puppet work and shift the upper fingers to move the mouth ... but that's not how mouths work ... the lower jaw moves, not the top of the head.

[/rant]

Yeah, it does give me a lot of fan email from Furries, but oh well ... nobody ever asked me to make the puppets hump .... yet.

Ironically, that'd be the first thing I'd ask you to demonstrate. Hehehe.

Ironically, that'd be the first thing I'd ask you to demonstrate. Hehehe.


Ahahaha ... well I do private shows .... umm ... errr ... we'll talk in private.

I'm also for enlightened self-interest.

Responsibility and authority over myself is key. So no laying blame for my situation on others, or giving others credit for my successes. Dealing with other persons as equally responsible persons, not as victims.

I am an end to myself, not a means to someone else's end, whether that someone be God, humanity, or my countrymen. I meet others as traders of value, not as a servant or sacrificial lamb.

I am the rational egoist.

I do everything in peace, I treat all on how I would be treated.

I never lie, I always take responsibilty, I'm honest.

I have patience for many things, which is why I repress my anger. But if I get too repressed, well... more people will end up on the orbitiurary list.

The hell am I?

I'd put the Pagan Rule of 3 at the center of my ethics, this being, whatever you send out will come back to you times three. This means that one should not only do unto others as you want done unto you, but you should do even better. It also means that for every act of hosility taken, a heavy burden will be revisited upon you, so cruelty should never EVER be frivilous. All actions, good or bad, have powerful karmic consequences. This viewpiont requires extreme responsibility for one's actions, even without a corresponding belief in Heaven and Hell. I guess next would be balance. All perspectives and points are needed to achieve an equilibrium, and while one "should always do as one will so long as it harm none", one should hesitate to impede on others, lest the delicate balance be interrupted.

I'll also add one to those I've stolen from my faith. As an open-minded and somewhat agnostic thinker, I try to live my life in such a way that even if I was wrong in my beliefs, when I reach the AfterLife, I will be able to tell whoever I am presented with that I did my very best given what I knew and believed. I wish to be able to stay this with utmost conviction. :)

Whatever other people(society) say. Then, using those basic rules (no murder, equality to all, etc), apply it to whatever.

otherwise, don't care, and ignore.

I don't believe in a moral code. I tend to think more along the lines of a moral core innate in each individual. More of an ethical ideaology, really, and not bound to anything but one's individual experiences with life.

Differences between individuals are more important than Creators or their rules.

I did not suggest that there was *a* moral code, Keruvalia. I asked, "What is the basis for your moral code" which obviously suggests that the question is taylored towards the beliefs of individuals. You most likely do have a moral code, at least in the sense I mean it, because I view it as being simply a belief (whether stated or unstated) about how one should regulate one's own behavior. I probably should have made that clear in the original post. My apologies. I'm off to try to fix it now.

My moral code is a variation of the ‘do unto others’ bit, but it’s not about how others would treat me, personally.

Treat everyone with the same compassion that you would want someone to show your own child, or your eldest relatives. (This, of course, is based on my absolute love for my grandparents and my kids. If you don’t have that, this code might not do it for you.)

I don’t know if it’s much of a basis for a moral code, but I think it makes me a lot more patient and respectful towards other people. I don’t know if there is a supreme being(s) or not, or if there’s a heaven or hell. That’s not what’s important to me. I try to do my best in the here and now, to make things I impact as decent as possible, but not out of some desire to get the good stuff in an afterlife. If it’s there, and I’m deserving of it, cool. But if not, and I’m just a bit of energy that will dissipate into the universe, well, at least I did my best to make the here and now a little better.

Good question, btw.

I like the idea of a goal for the code deal..

I suppose my goal is to be happy and suffer as little as possible.

Even though I'm athiest, there are Bible quotes which describe my moral conscience. It might be partly due to the fact I was raised as a Christian.. but mainly because I was raised to know whats "right" and "wrong" so to speak.

It's a mixture of:
"Love your neigher as yourself"
"An eye for an eye"
and "Survival of the fittest."
Those are the 3 main things which affect my actions, or it's how I act put into words anyway.

I value trust more than most things. I guess I'm lucky to have a best mate with whom I could trust my life :) This trust having the ideas of Honesty and Loyalty/Friendship included.

I'm not one to lash out at people, I think myself to be very laid back and accepting of people... but if I -know- someone is being unfair or needlessly violent and they go for me, I do double to them. I guess one thing I lack is tolerance.. I will accept people first off and give them benefit of the doubt.. but once they cross the line they tend to have a broken nose. :rolleyes:

As you ask for the basis, I'll keep it simple:
just a Great Freedom: everyone can do what he or she likes unless it harms other people, animals, destroys nature, ...

Following this rule, gay marriage would be allowed (just for our friends of the USA who keep shouting about freedom and still are against gay marriage :))

However, this is not everything of course.... But I think morality should just be used to protect the freedom of others, you can do a lot, except harming others or restricting their freedom.

My lama's philosophy, to a large extent would fit this:
Comfort the Disturbed. Disturb the Comfortable.

This is one reason I have a great deal of respect for you, LG.

Ahahaha ... well I do private shows .... umm ... errr ... we'll talk in private.

I am in pain here.....

the clown watching the puppeteer create sleazy puppet porn...

oooh, it hurts, it hurts...

My moral code is based around the assumption that I would like to have done good things.

I would like my positive effect to outway my negative effect.

I would like to think that others will treat me well, because I treat them well.

Reciprocally exchanged promises. "Do not do unto others what you would not have them do unto you." I won't steal from you, beat you up, provoke you with insults or endager you with acts of extreme recklessness so long as you don't do any of the above to me or anyone I like. This includes asking the govt to do any of the above for you, which will merit a harsh beating for all you socialists and conservatives.

I take a bit from ancient Japan, Stalin, Communism, and Anarchism. Also Capitalism - as in I like to do the opposite of what the gay ideal sets out to do. I hate capitalism lol. GO COMMUNISM!

Mine is common sense.
It is about logic.
It is following the law and breaking stupid rules.

Shameless bump because I truly am fascinated by this subject and would like as wide a variety of responses as possible.