NationStates Jolt Archive

62% to 33%.
Kerry not exactly popular among mainstream Americans.
His support is entirely based on foriegn support, pro Saddam people, and left wing extremists out to destroy America.
Bush has the support of mainstream America, naturalized citizens, christians and other religious groups, and, of course, his own party base of moderate and conservative republicans.
The fact is, that the Democrats just don't get it, cause the Democrats are out of touch with the average American.

By the way, its terrorism stupid.

(couldn't resist the cliche).

62+43= 105 how can 105% of people be polled?

well it dont matter untill novemeber and god knows what can happen on 2 months

His support is entirely based on foriegn support,

Americans voting in the polls = foreign?!!??

pro Saddam people,

Find one outside of the Baath party or extreme fundamentalists.

and left wing extremists out to destroy America.

You're an idiot.

Bush has the support of mainstream America,

If by "mainstream America," you mean uneducated people or people who believe whatever someone they see to be in authority tell them Oh wait, that is sounding pretty mainstream. Good thing all of those people don't vote.

naturalized citizens,

as long as they aren't Muslim.

christians and other religious groups,

except the ones who don't support him.

and, of course, his own party base of moderate and conservative republicans.

The Republican party would follow Genghis Khan if he was the incumbent.

The fact is, that the Democrats just don't get it, cause the Democrats are out of touch with the average American.

So are Republicans. Neither party has a clue about the average American. That's why people who would rather be informed than paciified vote independent of parties.

62% to 43%.
Kerry not exactly popular among mainstream Americans.
His support is entirely based on foriegn support, pro Saddam people, and left wing extremists out to destroy America.
Bush has the support of mainstream America, naturalized citizens, christians and other religious groups, and, of course, his own party base of moderate and conservative republicans.
The fact is, that the Democrats just don't get it, cause the Democrats are out of touch with the average American.

Both sides are out of touch with the average American. Modern politics is all about party first, country second.

I live in a state that I always thought was more Democrat territory than Repub, and all I've seen (with one exeption) is complete support for Bush. I think he just might win.

The world prays Bush doesn't win, but...I think the Democrats should have chosen Dean. You can take whatever meaning you want from that?

62+43= 105 how can 105% of people be polled?
Nuf said.

I'm living up in mountain country right now, which is predominantly conservative... and I'm seeing plenty of folks who aren't at all happy with Bush.

Pro-Saddam people? Not too many of those exist, even inside Iraq. The islamic fundamentalists hated Saddam... liberals hate every dictator...

I'm very curious where you found this 105% poll, particularly as it doesn't agree with the other polls I've seen over the course of this year.

I am curious to your numbers.

All other polls I have seen have at most a difference of 5%.

Don't think the shrub has it locked up.....

62+43= 105 how can 105% of people be polled?
The survey planners have amazing skills.

Actually...I know how to explain the 105% poll...
People in places like North Dakota have a vote that is worth more than 4 times that of people in places like California and Florida, which means that they make up 4 the percent of the poll as do Californians or Floridians...so yea..

The survey planners have amazing skills.
Typo corrected.

Nuf said.

If you are going to quote Stan Lee, get it right!

Nuff said.

:p

62% to 33%.
Source?

Actually...I know how to explain the 105% poll...
People in places like North Dakota have a vote that is worth more than 4 times that of people in places like California and Florida, which means that they make up 4 the percent of the poll as do Californians or Floridians...so yea..
Actually, I am going to predict that Bush carries both California and Florida.
California is currently in pro republican furvor due to democrats trying to bankrupt the state and make it beholden to the likes of Enron.
Florida, I am venturing a guess.

(Is from California)

Source?
Don't need a source. I am predicting the results will be 62-33.

Source?
Nuf said?

62% to 33%.
So who gets the other 5%?

Nader will get 5%? Wow...

So who gets the other 5%?
Who cares, point is Bush will win overwhelmingly.

Who cares, point is Bush will win overwhelmingly.
I don't think that Nader will get more than 2% this time around...and I don't think the gap between Bush and Kerry will be more than 1% (especially when you consider the country wasn't as divided in 2000 and he vote was really close...)

Who cares, point is Bush will win overwhelmingly.
Don't need a source. I am predicting the results will be 62-33.
The point is you're just making up those numbers.

The point is you're just making up those numbers.
Based on nothing. He doesn't even consider anything at all....including the fact that each party (Dems and Republicans) are pretty much gauranteed at least 40% of the vote each.

I don't think that Nader will get more than 2% this time around...and I don't think the gap between Bush and Kerry will be more than 1% (especially when you consider the country wasn't as divided in 2000 and he vote was really close...)
actually, the nation was way more divided in 2000 than it is today.
The fact is, the Bush victory margin will be wider than 1%.

actually, the nation was way more divided in 2000 than it is today.
The fact is, the Bush victory margin will be wider than 1%.
Will you stop talking out of your ass and start backing something up? Just back one thing up and I'll back off you. You aren't backing up anything. All you're doing is hiking up your post count...

Based on nothing. He doesn't even consider anything at all....including the fact that each party (Dems and Republicans) are pretty much gauranteed at least 40% of the vote each.
That's why there are a lot of dems that will be voting for Bush.

Will you stop talking out of your ass and start backing something up? Just back one thing up and I'll back off you. You aren't backing up anything. All you're doing is hiking up your post count...
Predictions can only be backed after they come true. Which of course, in this case, will happen.

Will you stop talking out of your ass and start backing something up? Just back one thing up and I'll back off you. You aren't backing up anything. All you're doing is hiking up your post count...
That's why there are a lot of dems that will be voting for Bush.
Back that up...

Predictions can only be backed after they come true. Which of course, in this case, will happen.
True, but predictions can (and should) be based off something (especially if there as definite as your predictions are). You're not basing your predictions off anything tangible--only your hard on for Bush.

Back that up...
again, its a prediction.
The polls don't mean crap at the moment. The only one that matters is the one in November. And I am predicting this is how it will turn out.

62+43= 105 how can 105% of people be polled?

Don't forget in Chicago, New York and Florida some democrats vote even after death.

To me, Bush seems to have a polarizing effect. I would be very surprised if many Democrats voted for him. Of course, that's just my opinion.

I think that what Whittier means is that he/she works for Diebold and has already reprogrammed the voting machines. Since there is no paper trail in most of the states, the machines will make sure that the vote comes out with Bush on top, by the numbers that were just quoted.

Thank you ever so much for correcting the math problem, now there is no way that Whittier's diabolical plan can be stopped. MUAHAHAHAHAHA!

Don't forget in Chicago, New York and Florida some democrats vote even after death.
Not to mention the very many New York Dims who are registered to vote (and actually do vote) in both NY and FL.

True, but predictions can (and should) be based off something (especially if there as definite as your predictions are). You're not basing your predictions off anything tangible--only your hard on for Bush.
Not neccessarily.
I predicted 911.
People scoffed cause I didn't give them proof. (Unless they were in the govt.).

again, its a prediction.
The polls don't mean crap at the moment. The only one that matters is the one in November. And I am predicting this is how it will turn out.
Predictions are based off trends, facts, and rationalities. What you are doing is guessing until you start showing us something real that you're basing these guesses off of. You are also making statements like "The country was more divided in 2000 than it is now" and not backing that up. That's not a prediction.

Not neccessarily.
I predicted 911.
People scoffed cause I didn't give them proof. (Unless they were in the govt.).
You guessed 9/11.

Don't forget in Chicago, New York and Florida some democrats vote even after death.
Yep, dems have a tendency to vote when they are dead.

Actually, I am going to predict that Bush carries both California and Florida.

I don't know about California. Bush has introduced some pretty liberal legislation when it comes to the immigrant workers, and most Calis aren't too happy with that type of stuff.

Florida - sure he'll take it. And it'll have NOTHING at all to do with his brother being the governor. :rolleyes:

I don't know about California. Bush has introduced some pretty liberal legislation when it comes to the immigrant workers, and most Calis aren't too happy with that type of stuff.
THAT is a prediction. It is based off of something real and the evidence supporting the prediction is made evident.

again, its a prediction.
The polls don't mean crap at the moment. The only one that matters is the one in November. And I am predicting this is how it will turn out.
Oh so true...however, do remember, most polls going into the GOP's convention are giving Bush an edge...BEFORE the expected post-convention bounce.

Jean Francois Kerry might be the only challenger in recent history to lose support during and immediately after his convention.

Not to mention the very many New York Dims who are registered to vote (and actually do vote) in both NY and FL.
I predict that due to 911, the majority of NY dems will vote for Bush.

The world prays Bush doesn't win, but...I think the Democrats should have chosen Dean. You can take whatever meaning you want from that?
So you are saying you polled the entire world to see what they think of Bush? Wow polling 6 billion people would take a long long time.


I dont get it why people want to elect a man in office that is just going raise taxes for us and lower our defense budget and get rid of of the civilian ownership of a gun. He says that he will allow the ownership of guns but if you look at some of his interviews and crap he says totaly diffrent. Also this is a man that has voted against every military budget in the Senate but now he claims that he will do this war on terrorism. I really don't get why someone would support him. He makes no sense at all.

I predict that due to 911, the majority of NY dems will vote for Bush.
Why would they vote for Bush more than Kerry? After all, 9/11 happened on Bush's watch, not Kerry's.



---Scientists predict.
---Shamans guess.

Whittier- is a shaman.

Actually, I am going to predict that Bush carries both California and Florida.
California is currently in pro republican furvor due to democrats trying to bankrupt the state and make it beholden to the likes of Enron.
Florida, I am venturing a guess.

(Is from California)


No California is not pro-republican.

The Repubs don't spend much time here as they figure it's a lost cause.

Just because Arnie was voted in does not mean everybody change parties. If Arnie doesn't make it serious repairs, he will be gone.

Predictions are based off trends, facts, and rationalities. What you are doing is guessing until you start showing us something real that you're basing these guesses off of. You are also making statements like "The country was more divided in 2000 than it is now" and not backing that up. That's not a prediction.
Not necessarily true.
I've become quite adept at predicting election outcomes and other stuff.

Will you stop talking out of your ass and start backing something up? Just back one thing up and I'll back off you. You aren't backing up anything. All you're doing is hiking up your post count...

He is expressing an opinion. Apparently he believes in the opinion of the people and not in servitude to polls.

Also this is a man that has voted against every military budget in the Senate but now he claims that he will do this war on terrorism.

A war that he, himself, admits can't be won.

Nader will get 5%? Wow...

Nope. Badnarik. :p

And yes, the Democrats should have chosen either Howard Dean or, better yet, Dennis Kucinich.

So you are saying you polled the entire world to see what they think of Bush? Wow polling 6 billion people would take a long long time.


I dont get it why people want to elect a man in office that is just going raise taxes for us and lower our defense budget and get rid of of the civilian ownership of a gun. He says that he will allow the ownership of guns but if you look at some of his interviews and crap he says totaly diffrent. Also this is a man that has voted against every military budget in the Senate but now he claims that he will do this war on terrorism. I really don't get why someone would support him. He makes no sense at all.
Well, to be fair to Jean Francois Kerry, it all truly depends on when you ask him...

You guessed 9/11.
Actually I predicted it, as early as 1996 based newsreports on what was happening in Chechnya and afghanistan and the rest of the muslim world at the time and my knowledge of American's false sense of security.

So you are saying you polled the entire world to see what they think of Bush? Wow polling 6 billion people would take a long long time.


I dont get it why people want to elect a man in office that is just going raise taxes for us and lower our defense budget and get rid of of the civilian ownership of a gun. He says that he will allow the ownership of guns but if you look at some of his interviews and crap he says totaly diffrent. Also this is a man that has voted against every military budget in the Senate but now he claims that he will do this war on terrorism. I really don't get why someone would support him. He makes no sense at all.

I don't see how anyone can support a man who has already had 4 years in office and has systematically begun tearing down the things that make this country great, attacked and politicized science, lied to the American people, changed his pre-election views on just about every important issue, and demonstrated ignorance consistently. But, hey, that's just me.

Wow. This thread is trash...so...




+1!

THAT is a prediction. It is based off of something real and the evidence supporting the prediction is made evident.
Predictions are not a science. You can't quantify them.

Not to mention the very many New York Dims who are registered to vote (and actually do vote) in both NY and FL.


Well that is to offset all the votes Jeb gets tossed for being "criminals"

Why would they vote for Bush more than Kerry? After all, 9/11 happened on Bush's watch, not Kerry's.



---Scientists predict.
---Shamans guess.

Whittier- is a shaman.scientist don't predict they forcast.

I don't see how anyone can support a man who has already had 4 years in office and has systematically begun tearing down the things that make this country great, attacked and politicized science, lied to the American people, changed his pre-election views on just about every important issue, and demonstrated ignorance consistently. But, hey, that's just me.
Oh, it's not just you....

No California is not pro-republican.

The Repubs don't spend much time here as they figure it's a lost cause.

Just because Arnie was voted in does not mean everybody change parties. If Arnie doesn't make it serious repairs, he will be gone.
Most californians don't vote according to party lines.

Why would they vote for Bush more than Kerry? After all, 9/11 happened on Bush's watch, not Kerry's.



---Scientists predict.
---Shamans guess.

Whittier- is a shaman.


Scientists do not predict as every outcome has the same potential of probability. Economists, pollsters and theocracy predict. Predictions don't mean anything ask madame Cleo, she should have predicted her predicament.

Most californians don't vote according to party lines.

Yes and that doesn't make it Pro-Republican.

Do you even live here?

Things are bad due to the Tech bust. The shrub has done nothing except export tech jobs? So the economy (here) is weak, job outlook is week, incomes are declining and they would vote the shrub why?

Most californians don't vote according to party lines.

My grandfather did.

Scientists do not predict as every outcome has the same potential of probability. Economists, pollsters and theocracy predict. Predictions don't mean anything ask madame Cleo, she should have predicted her predicament.
Bingo.
God told me Bush will win overwhelmingly. And that he would carry Florida, New York, and California.
God told me last time Bush would win, but he also told me the nation would be divided over the outcome of the election.
Just like God told me about 911
and that something big will happen around 2012.

Yes and that doesn't make it Pro-Republican.

Do you even live here?

We are not improving due to the Tech bust. The shrub has tossed nothing our way so why would people like him? Job exporting is a source subject in the valley and yet he and his people say it is a good thing.

California screws up with a democrat govenor and demands the rest of the country to bail them out? Who do you think you are? New York City?

Bingo.
God told me Bush will win overwhelmingly. And that he would carry Florida, New York, and California.
God told me last time Bush would win, but he also told me the nation would be divided over the outcome of the election.
Just like God told me about 911
and that something big will happen around 2012.


:eek: It's Pat Robertson!

Yes and that doesn't make it Pro-Republican.

Do you even live here?

Things are bad due to the Tech bust. The shrub has done nothing except export tech jobs? So the economy (here) is weak, job outlook is week, incomes are declining and they would vote the shrub why?
That is because of the failed policies of the California Democratic Party.
I not only lived there, but I was very involved in California politics. To the point of qualifying to be an expert on California politics.
In 2000, I seem to remember that only 20% of Calis voted. The percentage of voters will be higher this year.

My grandfather did.
That don't mean you should. You should vote according to your convictions. Not according to how someone else voted or is telling you to vote.

Who cares, point is Bush will win overwhelmingly.

There's a point at which stupidity just becomes offensive. He's the least popular president ever.

California screws up with a democrat govenor and demands the rest of the country to bail them out? Who do you think you are? New York City?
He's probably part of the tiny minority of Californians who think the world revolves around Cali and owes Calis a living.

(couldn't resist sarcasm). ;)

There's a point at which stupidity just becomes offensive. He's the least popular president ever.
That's a false statement.

California screws up with a democrat govenor and demands the rest of the country to bail them out? Who do you think you are? New York City?

Well Slick you really don't know what happened here do you now?

Fact is the economy is crap right now. Bad economy reflects on the President right or wrong. So how are they going to vote for the Shrub when things are getting better?

He has no plans except keep giving money to the wealthy. After all they will be so generious and create all these new jobs for everybody! :rolleyes:

Fact is the economy is not going to get better here for a long time. Venture capitolists will not even talk to you unless you buiness plan has "outsourcing" involved. Our founder and CEO mentioned this as they were looking to start a new company.

Something big for 2012? What, will the fundamentalists finally get their theocracy? Or will we stop electing extremists and religious nuts?

That is because of the failed policies of the California Democratic Party.
I not only lived there, but I was very involved in California politics. To the point of qualifying to be an expert on California politics.
In 2000, I seem to remember that only 20% of Calis voted. The percentage of voters will be higher this year.

All right I will call this one.

If you are an "expert" then who are you? Have I heard of you?

Or do I just take your word on that?

God told me Bush will win overwhelmingly

According to Bush, God told him that too.

He's probably part of the tiny minority of Californians who think the world revolves around Cali and owes Calis a living.

(couldn't resist sarcasm). ;)

:rolleyes:

Well Slick you really don't know what happened here do you now?

Fact is the economy is crap right now. Bad economy reflects on the President right or wrong. So how are they going to vote for the Shrub when things are getting better?

He has no plans except keep giving money to the wealthy. After all they will be so generious and create all these new jobs for everybody! :rolleyes:

Fact is the economy is not going to get better here for a long time. Venture capitolists will not even talk to you unless you buiness plan has "outsourcing" involved. Our founder and CEO mentioned this as they were looking to start a new company.
Eh, in case you are too blind, the rest of America is experiencing job growth.
California is the only one not experiencing recovery.
Fact is, you guys would start getting jobs and corporate and other businesses investing in your state if the California Democrats stopped blocking Arnold's economic reforms and stopped blocking Arnold's attempts to repeal tyrannical communist antibusiness regulations.
When it comes to tyrannical regulations that strip people of their rights and chase businesses out of the state, California is the American capital of this.
Simply solution is to vote the dems out of the Cali legislature so Arnold can bring jobs to Cali.

All right I will call this one.

If you are an "expert" then who are you? Have I heard of you?

Or do I just take your word on that?
Someone who was active the Republican 58th Assembly District Central Committee. Someone who was a member of the Los Angeles County Republican Central Committee. And is still a card carrying member of the California Republican Party.
Who ran local office twice and for Congress once in 2000, from Los Angeles County. In the 34th Congressional District.

That's a false statement.

That's a false statement.

Well Slick you really don't know what happened here do you now?

Fact is the economy is crap right now. Bad economy reflects on the President right or wrong. So how are they going to vote for the Shrub when things are getting better?

He has no plans except keep giving money to the wealthy. After all they will be so generious and create all these new jobs for everybody! :rolleyes:

Fact is the economy is not going to get better here for a long time. Venture capitolists will not even talk to you unless you buiness plan has "outsourcing" involved. Our founder and CEO mentioned this as they were looking to start a new company.

That's my point exactly. Democrats threw money at any social program without requiring accountability. Republicans require accountability. My democrat govenor went to cali to support Davis despite the fact that because of davis, someone I could not vote for raised my taxes and utility bills while softening the impact on the poor californians. We had electricty use restriction here but not in cali they have freedom of speech and kept their signage and billboards lite. (the turle is beginning to have an issue)

Someone who was active the Republican 58th Assembly District Central Committee. Someone who was a member of the Los Angeles County Republican Central Committee. And is still a card carrying member of the California Republican Party.
Who ran local office twice and for Congress once in 2000, from Los Angeles County. In the 34th Congressional District.

So that makes you an expert, eh?

Eh, in case you are too blind, the rest of America is experiencing job growth.
California is the only one not experiencing recovery.
Fact is, you guys would start getting jobs and corporate and other businesses investing in your state if the California Democrats stopped blocking Arnold's economic reforms and stopped blocking Arnold's attempts to repeal tyrannical communist antibusiness regulations.
When it comes to tyrannical regulations that strip people of their rights and chase businesses out of the state, California is the American capital of this.
Simply solution is to vote the dems out of the Cali legislature so Arnold can bring jobs to Cali.


I grow weary of such nonsense.

Seek therapy my boy.

And since you are likely to see a bunch of people post links to websites that will give you some decent statistics in a little while, I suggest you read them.

That don't mean you should. You should vote according to your convictions. Not according to how someone else voted or is telling you to vote.

Indeed. That's why I'm registered as an independent. However, I am convinced that President Bush is the biggest threat our country faces at this time.

That's a false statement.
So you admit it was a false statement?

Yawn...

So that makes you an expert, eh?


More than you since not only did he show his bona fides, he id'd himself.

So that makes you an expert, eh?
Yep. I've been taking California's political pulse probably since you was in diapers.

Cant wait for election to get here for all this dumb stuff to finally get over with...But once the election occurs and if Bush wins you know it has to be an election fraud or something right... doesnt it? Right? Because apparently Dems cant except the fact that they lost fair and square so they have to make up some lame excuse.

I grow weary of such nonsense.

Seek therapy my boy.

And since you are likely to see a bunch of people post links to websites that will give you some decent statistics in a little while, I suggest you read them.
I know the evil anti freedom regulations the dems put in place in Cali and I was and am still aware of their tragic consequences. Regulations put in place cause the California democrats care more about partisan politics than they do about what's right for California.

More than you since not only did he show his bona fides, he id'd himself.

He didn't ID himself.

How do you prove it?

Come to think of it, I do have an eye on Boxer's Senate seat.

That's my point exactly. Democrats threw money at any social program without requiring accountability. Republicans require accountability. My democrat govenor went to cali to support Davis despite the fact that because of davis, someone I could not vote for raised my taxes and utility bills while softening the impact on the poor californians. We had electricty use restriction here but not in cali they have freedom of speech and kept their signage and billboards lite. (the turle is beginning to have an issue)

Ok you do have an understanding! ;)

I grow weary of such nonsense.

Seek therapy my boy.

And since you are likely to see a bunch of people post links to websites that will give you some decent statistics in a little while, I suggest you read them.

If you don't agree with you, seek therapy? That's what Stalin said with his psych hospitals. The man has an opinion, he has a right to express it, wheter the ACLU agrees with it or not. (the turtle is going back into his shell.) I already have orders to go to cali to provide recovery in their social problems.

He didn't ID himself.

How do you prove it?
Just for your education and edification.

www.geocities.com/canales4congress

He didn't ID himself.

How do you prove it?

Elementry, my dear Doctor Watson.

Elementry, my dear Doctor Watson.

Ok I admit you got a chuckle from that! ;)

Just for your education and edification.

www.geocities.com/canales4congress
Geocities webpages are the source of all accurate information. They might as well be nicknamed the reference section of the internet.

Over 33,000 votes. That's more than any republican before or since has gotten in that particular district which happened to 65% democratic at the time.

Just for your education and edification.

www.geocities.com/canales4congress


Well if you are indeed Robert you should introduce yourself and start another thread. Not too many real politicols here.

Your page has a little too much info at the moment(too much monitor work today! ;) ).

I am Sillicon Valley so I haven't heard of you.....

Geocities webpages are the source of all accurate information. They might as well be nicknamed the reference section of the internet.
That was my official campaign website.

I predict that due to 911, the majority of NY dems will vote for Bush.

Yeah, like his superb federal intelligence or good co-orperations between the agencies. *laughs*

Or his great work of finding Bin Laden and arresting him. *laughs even more*

Or his great operations in Iraq, being their saviour and all. *laughs his ass of*

Please please, I'm killing myself.

That was my official campaign website.
If my official, you mean amateur, I will believe you. Otherwise, invest in a dot com you cheapskate.

Well if you are indeed Robert you should introduce yourself and start another thread. Not too many real politicols here.

Your page has a little too much info at the moment(too much monitor work today! ;) ).

I am Sillicon Valley so I haven't heard of you.....
Silicon Valley is north of where I was and where I call home. Whittier.
The conservation town.
K, most people say environmental preservation, but we Whittierites say environmental conservation. Hence, our obssession with making sure there no development of the Whittier hills, Known elsewhere as the La Puente Hills and our communities brave initiative in setting up a wildlife corridor along the migration routes of the major wildlife in the area so the coyotes and deer can have a bigger area in which to forage for food.

Bingo.
God told me Bush will win overwhelmingly. And that he would carry Florida, New York, and California.
God told me last time Bush would win, but he also told me the nation would be divided over the outcome of the election.
Just like God told me about 911
and that something big will happen around 2012.

God told me you have voices in your head.

If my official, you mean amateur, I will believe you. Otherwise, invest in a dot com you cheapskate.
Yep that right. I am a cheap skate. I don't believe other people should have to pay for something that doesn't benefit them.
So I started this site on freewebhost and a couple of weeks later, this web tech guy donates his services and makes the thing look so much better than how I had it organized. Had to his donation on my campaign filings though cause it was worth over 1k dollars.

Oh, why did I read this entire thread? As a public outreach worker with a non-profit, non-partisan public interest group, I can confidently say that the general public is decisively split almost exactly down the middle, with neither side about to listen to any rational argument or persuasion from the other. This will be almost as close as the last election. If it is true that some around here can predict the future, why aren't those folks in an insane asylum? Wouldn't the knowledge of what's to come drive you mad? Or better yet,why didn't the local Nostradomus try to stop or warn anyone about the 9/11 attacks?

Yeah, like his superb federal intelligence or good co-orperations between the agencies. *laughs*

Or his great work of finding Bin Laden and arresting him. *laughs even more*

Or his great operations in Iraq, being their saviour and all. *laughs his ass of*

Please please, I'm killing myself.

Normally, I would try to stop you for moral, ethical and legal reasons, but I'll let you express yourself.

God told me you have voices in your head.
I think you're right. Like today, I heard one voice saying, "Damn that a hot chick. I should ask her out."
Then I had another voice in my head saying, "Don't do it. Go slow. Ask her in 20 days. In fact, wait 20 days then talk to her."
Then voice one says "Waiting is bad idea. Do it now."
Then voice two says, "Not waiting is a bad idea."

I don't know which voice to listen to. ;)

Bush might win.
If he does, beware the consequences.
The two-party system is a total scam, and it makes people think there is such a thing as "right" and "wrong" in politics. Actually, there are 100 shades of grey in-between the two poles.

There are many very religious people who happen to be leftist liberals or Democrats. There are many completely anti-religious people who happen to be extreme rightists and Republicans, who worship the god of money.

The same Republicans who profess to "love thy neighbours" falsely act like they are devout but then introduce legislation like Proposition 187 in California.

The same Democrats who claim to be pacifists and lovers of freedom then turn around and vote for the war in Iraq or the Patriot Act.

Don't delude yourselves. The left is not trying to destroy the US. The right is not trying to destroy the US. The US is destroying the US.

Remember Rome? Remember Nero? Remember playing a fiddle while buildings burned?

Some of us remember what we learned in history. But most of us do not, so are doomed to repeat it.

These days Nero goes by the initial "W." Next year he will remain in office or be replaced by a Claudius who sacreligiously uses the initials "JFK."

Just to prolong the glorious dream a little longer, though, wouldn't it be better to have Claudius right now?

Sadly, some of this probably went over people's heads. I can hope not, however.

Bush might win.
If he does, beware the consequences.
The two-party system is a total scam, and it makes people think there is such a thing as "right" and "wrong" in politics. Actually, there are 100 shades of grey in-between the two poles.

There are many very religious people who happen to be leftist liberals or Democrats. There are many completely anti-religious people who happen to be extreme rightists and Republicans, who worship the god of money.

The same Republicans who profess to "love thy neighbours" falsely act like they are devout but then introduce legislation like Proposition 187 in California.

The same Democrats who claim to be pacifists and lovers of freedom then turn around and vote for the war in Iraq or the Patriot Act.

Don't delude yourselves. The left is not trying to destroy the US. The right is not trying to destroy the US. The US is destroying the US.

Remember Rome? Remember Nero? Remember playing a fiddle while buildings burned?

Some of us remember what we learned in history. But most of us do not, so are doomed to repeat it.

These days Nero goes by the initial "W." Next year he will remain in office or be replaced by a Claudius who sacreligiously uses the initials "JFK."

Just to prolong the glorious dream a little longer, though, wouldn't it be better to have Claudius right now?

Sadly, some of this probably went over people's heads. I can hope not, however.
kudos on your knowledge on the history of cali politics and the way politics actually work in America.

Bush might win.
If he does, beware the consequences.
The two-party system is a total scam, and it makes people think there is such a thing as "right" and "wrong" in politics. Actually, there are 100 shades of grey in-between the two poles.

There are many very religious people who happen to be leftist liberals or Democrats. There are many completely anti-religious people who happen to be extreme rightists and Republicans, who worship the god of money.

The same Republicans who profess to "love thy neighbours" falsely act like they are devout but then introduce legislation like Proposition 187 in California.

The same Democrats who claim to be pacifists and lovers of freedom then turn around and vote for the war in Iraq or the Patriot Act.

Don't delude yourselves. The left is not trying to destroy the US. The right is not trying to destroy the US. The US is destroying the US.

Remember Rome? Remember Nero? Remember playing a fiddle while buildings burned?

Some of us remember what we learned in history. But most of us do not, so are doomed to repeat it.

These days Nero goes by the initial "W." Next year he will remain in office or be replaced by a Claudius who sacreligiously uses the initials "JFK."

Just to prolong the glorious dream a little longer, though, wouldn't it be better to have Claudius right now?

Sadly, some of this probably went over people's heads. I can hope not, however.


No it didn't. I won't point out and correct the legends as most people would get lost. Am I to understand that man will continue to make the same cyclical errors and never develop a civil system that survives?

In 2000, I seem to remember that only 20% of Calis voted. The percentage of voters will be higher this year.
Actually, according to the FEC, registered voter turnout in Cali in 2000 was 65%, which is higher than most other states.
You also mentioned that the Cali Dems were "beholden to Enron." Right. Because the Democratic Party is the party of big business. Which is why ex-CEOs of big oil companies are in the Democratic party leadership...oh. wait. That's the REPUBLICANS!!!
As for you saying that God told you Bush would win...your respect level just dropped from "rabid crazy conservative" to "schizophrenic egomaniac with delusions of grandeur." Which, by the way, is a step from Respect Level 0 to Respect Level -2. That's rather low. (FYI, Bush is a 0.3, Kerry's a 2. Dean was about a 7.)

No it didn't. I won't point out and correct the legends as most people would get lost. Am I to understand that man will continue to make the same cyclical errors and never develop a civil system that survives?
Empires come, Empires go.
This is the cycle. No one has yet been able to create nation that was able to last thousand years. The Romans were the only ones who could do it.

There is no legend to correct. I assume you think that there is a mistake in my brief reference to Roman history.

I did not imply that Nero was playing a fiddle himself. Obviously if I am referring to this episode in history I know it well. It was a figure of speech for all those who DON'T know it well.

In regards to a cyclical pattern of history, I am certainly not saying that we can't evolve to be better and better as time goes on. Hell, China is still around in roughly the same territorial domain with basically the same language and customs after 4,000 years, and though progress has been somewhat slow, it is definitely better than it was under the Mongols.

However, the US today bears scary resemblance to Rome before the fall. That's all I'm saying. It's an opinion. If you disagree, fine.

Have fun at the Coliseum...oops, I mean, have fun watching "Fear Factor."

Actually, according to the FEC, registered voter turnout in Cali in 2000 was 65%, which is higher than most other states.
You also mentioned that the Cali Dems were "beholden to Enron." Right. Because the Democratic Party is the party of big business. Which is why ex-CEOs of big oil companies are in the Democratic party leadership...oh. wait. That's the REPUBLICANS!!!
As for you saying that God told you Bush would win...your respect level just dropped from "rabid crazy conservative" to "schizophrenic egomaniac with delusions of grandeur." Which, by the way, is a step from Respect Level 0 to Respect Level -2. That's rather low. (FYI, Bush is a 0.3, Kerry's a 2. Dean was about a 7.)
A simple "your percentage is wrong" would have sufficed.
No need for you to flame.

Empires come, Empires go.
This is the cycle. No one has yet been able to create nation that was able to last thousand years. The Romans were the only ones who could do it.
But they did it and the Roman system still exists, along with Greece et al. Eventually we will get it right IMHO.

There is no legend to correct. I assume you think that there is a mistake in my brief reference to Roman history.

I did not imply that Nero was playing a fiddle himself. Obviously if I am referring to this episode in history I know it well. It was a figure of speech for all those who DON'T know it well.

In regards to a cyclical pattern of history, I am certainly not saying that we can't evolve to be better and better as time goes on. Hell, China is still around in roughly the same territorial domain with basically the same language and customs after 4,000 years, and though progress has been somewhat slow, it is definitely better than it was under the Mongols.

However, the US today bears scary resemblance to Rome before the fall. That's all I'm saying. It's an opinion. If you disagree, fine.

Have fun at the Coliseum...oops, I mean, have fun watching "Fear Factor."

Actually you will find a lot of christian and republican historians and political philosopher's who would back this view.

A simple "your percentage is wrong" would have sufficed.
No need for you to flame.

I wouldn't call it flaming, I would call it pretty much on the spot.

Truth hurts, right? ;)

There is no legend to correct. I assume you think that there is a mistake in my brief reference to Roman history.

I did not imply that Nero was playing a fiddle himself. Obviously if I am referring to this episode in history I know it well. It was a figure of speech for all those who DON'T know it well.

In regards to a cyclical pattern of history, I am certainly not saying that we can't evolve to be better and better as time goes on. Hell, China is still around in roughly the same territorial domain with basically the same language and customs after 4,000 years, and though progress has been somewhat slow, it is definitely better than it was under the Mongols.

However, the US today bears scary resemblance to Rome before the fall. That's all I'm saying. It's an opinion. If you disagree, fine.

Have fun at the Coliseum...oops, I mean, have fun watching "Fear Factor."

The figure of speech was what i didn't want to correct. Let's hope we don't have to go through Caligula and the others or the dark ages again. God help us if another Constatine shows up.

But they did it and the Roman system still exists, along with Greece et al. Eventually we will get it right IMHO.
Actually, we don't use the Roman system of government. They had a big influence on western civilization and there are a lot of things happening now that happened then. But you must remember that there are also quite a few differences.
Example:
While modern america is just like the roman empire of old.
Modern America is a freer and more democratic than Rome ever was.
Also, Americans believe strongly in civil and human rights.
Romans believed in neither unless you were a wealthy land owner.
Americans believe in equality. Romans did not.
So to answer the question, we do seem to be getting better. But as shown in afghan. anyone could come along with Talibanist policies and plunge us back into the dark ages from which we would be forced to crawl back out of.

I wouldn't call it flaming, I would call it pretty much on the spot.

Truth hurts, right? ;)

I am squeezing you with my index finger and thumb...

The figure of speech was what i didn't want to correct. Let's hope we don't have to go through Caligula and the others or the dark ages again. God help us if another Constatine shows up.

Yes, let us hope. Let us pray.

We shall see.

I wish every one of us good luck.

The figure of speech was what i didn't want to correct. Let's hope we don't have to go through Caligula and the others or the dark ages again. God help us if another Constatine shows up.
No. Constantine? You mean I'm not wanted? But I even designed a cross for all Americans to put on their cars and houses, that God gave me, saying "with this sign America will conquer terrorism."

;)

Yes, let us hope. Let us pray.

We shall see.

I wish every one of us good luck.

Good night.

Don't delude yourselves. The left is not trying to destroy the US. The right is not trying to destroy the US. The US is destroying the US Word. It's purely about working to find out who is the lesser of two evils. And the two evils are working to find out how they can ingratiate their message into the psyche of the American people, while consolidating power, without any thought to more transcendent values. Like working for general social welfare.

As a lifelong liberal (from "middle america", might I add and I am not the only one) I have to say when the democrats rolled over after Sept. 11th, on so many ways, that enraged me the most. Even more than the administration for coopting patriotism to further a largely self-serving and reactionary agenda that actually goes against everything that both conservatism and the spirit of the American system is supposed to stand for.

But, by the by, Whittier's poll numbers fly in the face of every other poll that I have ever seen. I suggest that you look at other sources, such as http://www.pollingreport.com/ . It is a statistical deadheat and after the bump from the RNC goes away (and Bush is soft on his numbers considering he is an incumbent seeking reelection), I imagine that it will be a horserace. Unless Bush or Kerry bombs in the debates. I can't imagine Bush winning a contest that involves talking. Even more interesting will be the Vice Presidential debates against Cheney and Edwards.

Time for your resident Radical left-winger to throw something in!!! (by the way, I am proud to feel the need to kill all businessmen and ignorant. That's why I'm not a progressive)

The chances of Bush winning the election are very slim. about 30% of the population despises him so vehemently, that they will be making near 80% appearances at the voting booths. Meanwhile, the people who like Bush feel confident with their "victory" in the same manner that this ignorant Republican does. Half of them won't come to the booths because to them, the election is "in the bag".

And even if he does win, the polarized left, have dared to say...dare I say it? REVOLUTION. Many are willing to give their lives in the overthrow of the Moderate and Conservative Elite. I will offer my "prediction". 6 months after reelection (if the said word happens) a large militia will storm Washington D.C., and carry out a raid of the White House, Supreme Court, and the Congress. There will be executions of the Republican party, and neither the Secret Service, nor the D.C. police department, will be able to hold off the assault. True, there will be massive casualties on both sides of the law, but we will find ourselves suddenly without a Republican or Libertarian (uh, god, nasty word) elite.

Tolerable, nostradamus might not have predicted, but the Bible with use of the 'code' has 12 refferences in the same chapter and in that chapter if you read it regularly there is a part that talks of two towers falling. weird huh?

Rosh, I'm sorry but your analogy reminded me of the simpsons, hehe. Where the Aliens came and took over the bodys of clinton and bush and when everyone found out they told everyone that they still had to choose between either, citing that pero was still more unfavorable then them, lol. Anyway, I think you are right. I do believe though it is a choosing of the lesser of two evils.

I'm voting Bush though becouse I actually do agree with many of his policies and beliefs, and at least one of the issues that is most important with me, he has made steps to improve.

I think that some people here are incredibly rude and childlike and need to stop bashing people that say something they don't like.

I'm just kidding about the whole Memocide thing. I am a pacifist, and as much as I want all Businessmen and ignorant to die, I couldn't bring it about.

Time for your resident Radical left-winger to throw something in!!! (by the way, I am proud to feel the need to kill all businessmen and ignorant. That's why I'm not a progressive)

The chances of Bush winning the election are very slim. about 30% of the population despises him so vehemently, that they will be making near 80% appearances at the voting booths. Meanwhile, the people who like Bush feel confident with their "victory" in the same manner that this ignorant Republican does. Half of them won't come to the booths because to them, the election is "in the bag".

And even if he does win, the polarized left, have dared to say...dare I say it? REVOLUTION. Many are willing to give their lives in the overthrow of the Moderate and Conservative Elite. I will offer my "prediction". 6 months after reelection (if the said word happens) a large militia will storm Washington D.C., and carry out a raid of the White House, Supreme Court, and the Congress. There will be executions of the Republican party, and neither the Secret Service, nor the D.C. police department, will be able to hold off the assault. True, there will be massive casualties on both sides of the law, but we will find ourselves suddenly without a Republican or Libertarian (uh, god, nasty word) elite.
K, now you're predicting treason the penalty of which is death.

True, I am. But technically you were predicting mass murder, so are you guilty? Besides, even Thomas Jefferson agreed that minor revolutions would be necessary for the protection of the Union. A great example is the Civil Rights movement, or, to tickle your Laissez-faire stricken mind, the Reagan presidency (the Conservative revolution)

True, I am. But technically you were predicting mass murder, so are you guilty? Besides, even Thomas Jefferson agreed that minor revolutions would be necessary for the protection of the Union. A great example is the Civil Rights movement, or, to tickle your Laissez-faire stricken mind, the Reagan presidency (the Conservative revolution)
Eh, he did not say to violently overthrow the government.
The American version of revolution is to hold an election every 4 years and to limit Presidents to 2 terms in office.
Nothings that bad that people wouldn't be able to wait another 4 years.

If bush wins, the world will end. There will be a Civil-War between the people and the state, and then a world war, and eventually a nuclear missle exchange. Those who survive will all revert to primitive ways, and it will all be a good laugh. Ha Ha........ha....... :(

I definitely think that 4 more years is going to be the most dangerous thing that ever happened to the world (and this includes the birth of hitler, and (sigh) to satisfy you conservatives, the birth of Stalin too.) Most of my more educated colleagues agree with me. The only reason for a Revolution is the belief that all other hope is lost. But most would agree that this would be a minor revolution. The way the American system of Government works is quite suitable, so that will remain, for the most part, intact. The real change would be a shift away from a globalized economic structure, and the systematic assassinations of most conservative/capitalist authority figures in the nation. No one we would really miss anyway ; )

If bush wins, the world will end. There will be a Civil-War between the people and the state, and then a world war, and eventually a nuclear missle exchange. Those who survive will all revert to primitive ways, and it will all be a good laugh. Ha Ha........ha....... :(
I call north america, south america, the middle east, and the far east, and half of the pacific islands.

Yep, Marx talks about guys like you. You know, as much as everyone loves to say he is nuts, nobody really reads his work to see if that's a legitimate conclusion. Most people just listen to someone elses opinion. No, what Marx predicted (and actually came true) is that the capitalists, because of the nature of that system, would expand and require the takeover of everything that they could. You seem to be a capitalist, and as such you see the need to take every landmass you would deem less damaged.

bump

see what you did Whittier? Everyone left the room because you had no solid argument! Now I'm bored! I was just about to have some fun too!

I call north america, south america, the middle east, and the far east, and half of the pacific islands.
well, I call Australia, New Zealand, India, Africa, and all of Europe.

:mp5: I can't stand that idiotic liberal! if Kerry wins i reckon i wont fly the american flag as much b/c it would be hard to stand behind someone like kerry. Dadgum lyin' son of a gun trying to take away our 2nd amendment right to own and bear firearms. www.voteyoursport.com :sniper:

:mp5: I can't stand that idiotic liberal! if Kerry wins i reckon i wont fly the american flag as much b/c it would be hard to stand behind someone like kerry. Dadgum lyin' son of a gun trying to take away our 2nd amendment right to own and bear firearms. www.voteyoursport.com :sniper:

wow. i didn't know people like this actually excist. I just hope that this guy represends just a minority of americans. otherwise i'm really concerened about the near future of the US and even more worried about the rest of the world.
this just proves that patriotism is an evil tool and actually means instrumentalism of masses by a fundamentalist government.

(how come that there are more murders in the us than in all central european countries alltogether? - ahh right, they give out guns to everyone..)

you might have guessed by now - i'm european and happy about it these days. flame on!

/edit: just a chart for backup.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/153988.stm

to be fair, for a country as influential and powerful, in the world market and on a citizen to citizen basis, America should never be faced with a vote that Requires the decision between the lesser of two Evils. meaning the choice between a Liar and a Muppet! must we choose between an indecisives skinbag, who may or may not be the human incarnate of Hermann Munster("Cambodia on Xmas is seared into my brain" stated by Kerry... LIE!), and well, a guy who has Jim Henson's.., or to be politically correct, Cheney(fraudster) and the rest of his cabinet's hand(s) stuck up his anus. The US needs a genuine human to step up to the plate and lead. with a heart and a soul that does not beat around deceit, monetary kickbacks, and, for lack of a better term, scumbaggery! hey' i am not for any candidate!, but at least Nader wrote that its a good idea to wear a seatbelt!, also... its a good thing all our protesting body outside the RNC are mostly over the top cucoos that have neither the well being of the world nor, our world's first "hyperpower" nation in their hearts!!!That'll never help their "anyone but Bush" case!!!! Inellect, Understanding, willingness to awknowledge one's errors, and universal laws of humanity could perhaps start the platform of a new party that could possibly help further the nation that currently holds the most power in the world. and not," hi, i choke on pretzels!" besides, no matter what the people vote, Bush will win again because of the electoral college! what we have to worry about is 2008 when a Guiliani/schwartzeneger ticket goes head to head with a Hillary Clinton ticket....(with their world throat deep in poopy!!!!!! Besides, according to the Mayans and the Aztecs, 2012 is the end of it all anyways so get all your rollercoaser rides and visits to foreign countries in before then, desite the elevated alerts, make sure you have a passport and use it! i hope whatever created the universe blesses earth through these confuzzled times.
peace will prevail, one day.

Bush vs. kerry.... whoever wins we loose

wow. i didn't know people like this actually excist. I just hope that this guy represends just a minority of americans. otherwise i'm really concerened about the near future of the US and even more worried about the rest of the world.
this just proves that patriotism is an evil tool and actually means instrumentalism of masses by a fundamentalist government.

(how come that there are more murders in the us than in all central european countries alltogether? - ahh right, they give out guns to everyone..)

you might have guessed by now - i'm european and happy about it these days. flame on!

/edit: just a chart for backup.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/153988.stm

You hit it right on. Whenever someone asks me "Do you love America", I almost always answer with reasons you pointed out. It's hard to love a country with an anual murder rate in the tens of thousands. Based on a population:murder rate ratio, America is equal to almost any other nation - during violent open rebellion.

wow. i didn't know people like this actually excist. I just hope that this guy represends just a minority of americans. otherwise i'm really concerened about the near future of the US and even more worried about the rest of the world.
this just proves that patriotism is an evil tool and actually means instrumentalism of masses by a fundamentalist government.

(how come that there are more murders in the us than in all central european countries alltogether? - ahh right, they give out guns to everyone..)

you might have guessed by now - i'm european and happy about it these days. flame on!

/edit: just a chart for backup.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/153988.stm

so u didnt know that people who want to protect their rights didnt exsist. Haven't you ever visted anywhere EXCEPT big cities and liberal states! don't worry there are plenty of us, maybe not on this website but in America their are many fellow gun owners and hunters and no one has the right to remove them from us! By the way, guns don't kill people, people kill people. should we ban all airplanes because people use them to kill other people? Look at it from both sides of the stick. You have the right not to own a gun but ii still have my right to own one! Also I didn't see any Lousiana cities on that list and almost everyone I know owns at least one gun if not at least one in each room, just because we have guns dosent mean we kill people.

(how come that there are more murders in the us than in all central european countries alltogether? - ahh right, they give out guns to everyone..)

That and maybe because we have the world's 3rd (or is it now second?) highest population? The diffrence isnt that notable per capita, although yes, the USA does get more.

BTW, there are countries in Europe where gun ownership is compulsory. The gun lobbyists use them as examples because they have such low gun crime rates. Getting a gun in the USA is expensive and take enormous amounts of time, and politicians just keep cracking down on it.

Im all for the right to bear arms, its not crazy in any way. It gives everybody a way to defend themselves, and gives killers a new way to kill. Compare this to making many people unable to defend themselves, and making it difficult for killers to get guns should they need them.

Johannesburg is the most murderous city in the world by quite a bit last time i checked. Especially if this was taken in 1998 when things were even worse there.

There are more guns in Canada, per capita, than in the US. Yet the number of violent crimes has steadily declined since 1997... I agree that guns don't kill people, stupid people kill people.

In many states higher education is half paid for be federal and state taxes. Because of budget cutbacks, states institutions have had to roll back funding for certain programs and cut teacher pay. If Bush were to get elected, you can kiss that funding completely away. The amount of debt we owe for this 'tirade' of his is going to sink veterans benefits till there are no more Vietnam vets, it will force all college students to pull out exhaustively high priced and high interest rate loans to get through school which, as I am guessing, will increase their tuitions by up to 75%. So if you are a college student, have ever gone to public school and are voting for Bush you are a liar and a coward, a hypocrite and ignorant. Our Generation will sink under the economic weight of our 'forefathers' fighting wars for their own pathetic sense of self-worth. My best friend died three days ago in Baghdad and I sent Bush a letter asking him to explain why, I somehow don't think I'll get a response.
Any Vote for Bush is a vote to Destroy America as we know it or ever will hope for it.

:mp5: I can't stand that idiotic liberal! if Kerry wins i reckon i wont fly the american flag as much b/c it would be hard to stand behind someone like kerry. Dadgum lyin' son of a gun trying to take away our 2nd amendment right to own and bear firearms. www.voteyoursport.com :sniper:

Funny how conservative people keep acting like the 2nd amendment is the most important one. (Note: I am a moderate. I am well trained in how to handle a gun including presenting a pistol from concealed carry. My father has his concealed carry permit and carries a 1911 on him at most times).

A note about this though... The second amendment gives us the right to bear arms *for the purpose of maintaining an organized militia*. Funny how that second part gets left out usually.

Now, as for other ammendments. There is all the talk about the Bush admin's invasion of privacy and infringement on the 1st ammendment. But that's pretty controversial so I won't try to defend that.

What *has* been directly and obviously infringed upon is the protection against search and seizure. Does anyone out there own a boat? Probably somewhere. Well, I forget the bill that recently passed, I'm sure it can be looked up, but I will summarize what it says. Any boat with the potential to travel to Cuba (note: that is pretty much any boat with enough fuel capacity) the government can seize the craft and hold it indefinetely with no probably cause, warrant, or prior warning.

F*&$ the gun control 2nd ammendment arguments.

America's divide on stark display

When Americans go to the polls on Nov. 2, Osama bin Laden may still be plotting new 9/11 terror attacks, mocking President George W. Bush's pledge — now three years old — to bring him to justice.

In Iraq, nearly 1,000 Americans have died and 6,000 have been wounded in a $250-billion "pre-emptive" war that left the United States bitterly divided, seared by torture at Abu Ghraib and needlessly estranged from allies — to neutralize weapons that didn't exist.

And at home, Bush, who boasted in 2000 that "America has a strong economy and a surplus," is under fire for his stewardship of that good fortune. He has poured $2 trillion into a tax cut for the affluent, chalked up a record $420 billion deficit, presides over a sluggish recovery after a recession, and has seen 1.2 million jobs lost on his watch. Another 1.3 million Americans were plunged into poverty last year, and the number without health insurance grew by 1.4 million.

This is a dismal record on which to be running for re-election. It is almost impossible to see how Americans are better off than in 2000. The case for presidential change is a strong one. That's why Bush and his Democratic rival Sen. John Kerry are neck in neck with 10 weeks to go.

That is why a colourful riptide of 250,000 protesters is expected to surge through New York City streets this week as the Republican national convention gets underway. Many will echo Kerry's denunciation of Bush as "inept, reckless and ideological," or worse.

Though most Americans still give Bush credit for leading the war against 9/11 terror, more than half now feel the country is headed in the wrong direction. About half see in Kerry the man to heal America rather than divide it, and to lead the world, not alienate it.

Where Bush has unapologetically led America on its own single-minded path, Kerry would re-engage with the United Nations and key allies to galvanize the war on terror. At home, he has denounced Bush's "crony capitalism," vowing to rescind Bush's tax breaks for those earning $200,000 plus, and to pump the savings into manufacturing and high-tech jobs, and into providing health insurance for millions.

Still, Kerry's dourly patrician demeanour, his pandering to the fickle crowd on Iraq and his problems shaping a crisp, upbeat message that connects with the public, have all dragged him back. Accidental president or not, Bush is a "wartime" president who controls both houses of Congress, has a natural Republican edge in the Electoral College and who has managed to exceed the public's low expectations.

At the convention, Bush will try to assure skeptical Americans that the land is strong and full of opportunity. He will extol his conservative "ownership society" that proposes to place even more of the nation's inadequate health care and pensions in private hands. He will paint Kerry as a weak and indecisive naysayer. And he will repeat, for the umpteenth time, that the path to victory against bin Laden runs through Baghdad's slums.

He may even get a modest bounce in the polls from it all. Public opinion surveys show Kerry hurting from the scurrilous Republican attack on his Vietnam record. Incredibly, given the challenges facing America, its leaders are still obsessed with a war that ended 30 years ago. Incredibly, a president who dodged overseas service has shaken public confidence in a decorated volunteer who shed blood for his country.

People deserve better. As Kerry says, "America deserves a serious discussion about its future." That's not on the Republicans' feel-good agenda in New York. But there are enough protesters there to hold Bush to account, and to get a real debate going before this campaign is over.

- Toronto Star

A vote for Bush is basically a vote for corrupt Mr. Cheney.

All polls out as of tonight, show Bush with a big lead over Kerry.
Not that polls mean anything.

All polls out as of tonight, show Bush with a big lead over Kerry.
Not that polls mean anything.

All polls out tonight show him ahead by 2 points, coming back after following behind Kerry by 4 points, how is that in anyway a big lead?

MSNBC has him ahead by 19 points out a half million respondents.
Can't exactly level the same accusations at them that you level at Fox.

Time Magazine has the two point lead.

MSNBC has him ahead by 19 points out a half million respondents.
Can't exactly level the same accusations at them that you level at Fox.

I wasn't saying anything about Fox, but I'm going off of polls quoted on ABC and NBC.

More polls:

Zogby 9/2 46 44
American Research Group 9/1 48 47

Other polls are old, newest being from July.

According to Zogby, Bush favorability rating is now 54%

On all issues across the board, Bush has more favorable ratings the Kerry.

I wasn't saying anything about Fox, but I'm going off of polls quoted on ABC and NBC.
The latest ABC and NBC polls are from early August. Not very recent.

The latest ABC and NBC polls are from early August. Not very recent.

The Latest ABC poll is from August 29th, and showed both Kerry and Bush pulling 48%.

The Latest ABC poll is from August 29th, and showed both Kerry and Bush pulling 48%.
Its six days old. Anything over 3 days becomes automatically out of date.
They aren't as reliable as polls taken with in the last 3 days.

Its six days old. Anything over 3 days becomes automatically out of date.
They aren't as reliable as polls taken with in the last 3 days.

All these pools are pretty meaningless; it's the folks who show up on Election Day that matter, and a lot can happen between now and then.

All these pools are pretty meaningless; it's the folks who show up on Election Day that matter, and a lot can happen between now and then.
Very true. I agree.
while polls are fun to watch, they don't determine an elections outcome.

the economy was horrible when it was handed to bush. and many dems want to think that 9/11 never occured. the economy is improving. The facts is we have people risking their lives for this country and kerry despite saying that our troops arent well equipped voted against the the 87 billion. as an independant thinker all i can see is a man who stands behind everything he's done right/wrong and one guy who cant stand behind one of his decisions. i can take that from a commander in cheif. Yes the dems should have pushed dean.

bush is on a roll right now. kerrys record is being called into question. and unfortunately his main running tool. his military service is being dragged through the dirt by some swift boat vets. soon come the debates and bush has never lost one....ever. things arent looking good for kerry.

*as for kerrys military service. He was there and thats good enough for me. i respect him completely for it.

I am independent as in mind not as in political party. i am voting for bush.

Bush will win again because of the electoral college! what we have to worry about is 2008 when a Guiliani/schwartzeneger ticket goes head to head with a Hillary Clinton ticket Schwartzenegger cannot run for a presidential office because he is a naturalized citizen (Why Kissinger wasn't a consideration). And the Democrats won't run Hilary-- they will probably run Edwards, if anyone.