NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm undecided on this and don't smoke myself, but I can see enough arguments to warrant some kind of public debate. Here are some of them:

Pros: :p
- The (usual) effects of pot aren't much more intense, etc, than alcahol and cigarettes: booze can get you just as stupid and cigarettes give you lung cancer but they're both legal;
- The main problem associated with marijuana is that it's a gateway to harder drugs. I believe a lot of this is to do with the fact that pot smokers are in contact with drug dealers (who may want to sell the harder drugs) because marijuana is illegal;
- Criminalising marijuana has done little to prevent people from smoking it anyway;
- Marijuana is generally believed to be not physically addictive (feel free to contradict me on this);
- Marijuana doesn't kill people any more than alcahol does;
- On a purely economic basis, governments could tax it like tobacco and get a new source if income.

Cons: :(
- Like tobacco, marijuana can cause lung cancer, etc;
- Excessive pot use has been linked to the onset of schizophrenia;
- People driving, etc, under the influence of drugs can cause accidents, etc, and police breath-testers don't pick up marijuana.

Anyway, that's a few points to get started.

This issue has probably come up before, but I don't want any "I should be able to chose what drugs I put into my own body" arguments.

PS. Anyone from Holland out there who can fill us in on the situation in your country?

I believe in legalising all drugs, for the reasons you've outlined for pot minus the health stuff, plus the freedom of choice thing you said you didn't want in there

Actually Pot can be addicting but yu won't notice right asway.
Pot puts a little THC stored in your brain for later. Every day the amount left is cut in half, it can take a long time to get rid of it all.
But as soon as it does you will start noticing the withdrawals.

I did some research for a research paper for English in college.

You forgot another con...this is mostly for America.


The people of the United States CHOOSE marijuana to be illegal.
What they want, they get. Is that not what democracy is all about? Satisfying the majority rule?

I don't believe that gateway drug bs. I've never met anyone who smoked weed and became addicted to "harder" drugs. And about breathalyzers not being able to pick it up? Unless the cop has a SEVERE sinus infection, that shouldn't be a problem. =) And another thing, lots of crime is committed by people under the influence of alcohol, but I've never see anyone get violent when they were high.

I don't know enough about the contents/chemicals present in marijuana, nor their interaction with the human mind or body. I have met people who use the drug, and debated with some as well; I can't pinpoint exactly what it is, but something about them leaves a sense of unease.

I guess the best way to explain it would be like this: have you ever walked in to your room, and felt something had been moved, or just wasn't quite in the right place? That something was off ever so slightly? But you couldn't pinpoint what that was, it was just a gut feeling?

It is sort of like that.

If you buy marijuana, you are supporting *GASP* brown people. The first movements against weed were by people who just plain hated Mexicans.

uhhh pots like cool uh huh.... y'know.

on a more serious note, I reccomend people erad the article linked below http://society.guardian.co.uk/drugsandalcohol/story/0,8150,656699,00.html
this is a good comparison between a prohibition country and a tolerance country (UK vs Netehrlands). I think it pretty much kills the gateway theory.

I don't believe that gateway drug bs. I've never met anyone who smoked weed and became addicted to "harder" drugs. And about breathalyzers not being able to pick it up? Unless the cop has a SEVERE sinus infection, that shouldn't be a problem. =) And another thing, lots of crime is committed by people under the influence of alcohol, but I've never see anyone get violent when they were high.
But car accidents can happen and cars can kil people.
They could also accidently shoot someone but then again they shouldn't have had gone out and unlocked. Of course that would be blaming the victim so it is marijuanas fault.



Violence isn't only factor is crime.

I don't know enough about the contents/chemicals present in marijuana, nor their interaction with the human mind or body. I have met people who use the drug, and debated with some as well; I can't pinpoint exactly what it is, but something about them leaves a sense of unease.

I guess the best way to explain it would be like this: have you ever walked in to your room, and felt something had been moved, or just wasn't quite in the right place? That something was off ever so slightly? But you couldn't pinpoint what that was, it was just a gut feeling?

It is sort of like that.
Those are just the hard core stoners. And they'd probably be like that if they didn't smoke weed. I know the type you're talking about. They do tend to be a lot more laid back, though.

You forgot another con...this is mostly for America.


The people of the United States CHOOSE marijuana to be illegal.
What they want, they get. Is that not what democracy is all about? Satisfying the majority rule?
No, thats a tyranny by majority, the most fundamental flaw of a democracy. Thats what the constitution is for, otherwise we'd just need 50% + 1 voter to make all guns illegal, to make slavery legal again, to have all gay people publicly flogged...

No, in short.

If you buy marijuana, you are supporting *GASP* brown people. The first movements against weed were by people who just plain hated Mexicans.
And by the DuPont textiles company, who weren't keen on hemp fibres taking over their cotton sales.

But car accidents can happen and cars can kil people.
They could also accidently shoot someone but then again they shouldn't have had gone out and unlocked. Of course that would be blaming the victim so it is marijuanas fault.



Violence isn't only factor is crime.
Right, but the fact that drunkeness causes car accidents hasn't been enough reason to make alcohol illegal, has it? Unless you can show that people are more likely to DUI with pot that with alcohol, this point doesn't really work

uhhh pots like cool uh huh.... y'know.

on a more serious note, I reccomend people erad the article linked below http://society.guardian.co.uk/drugsandalcohol/story/0,8150,656699,00.html
this is a good comparison between a prohibition country and a tolerance country (UK vs Netehrlands). I think it pretty much kills the gateway theory.
Trimbos surveys 10,000 Dutch schoolchildren every four years. The last study, in 1999, showed a small decline in cannabis use - 20 per cent of those aged 15-16 had tried it, and 5 per cent smoked it regularly. Less than one in 1,000 had tried heroin. The same year the European Drug Monitoring Centre found 40 per cent of British children the same age had tried cannabis, and one in 50 had used heroin.

But when you use math by their counts: 2000 children have tried it. 20% of 10k= 2000
1/1000 = 10 use heroin.
Another question who has a better chance of paying for heroin? Adults. What has a better chance of children getting? Pot.

So it might still be a gateway drug but you need money to finance this shift.

But I guess we can't know their reasons.

-----"You forgot another con...this is mostly for America.
The people of the United States CHOOSE marijuana to be illegal.
What they want, they get. Is that not what democracy is all about? Satisfying the majority rule?"

Its up to the states, Alaska is looking at lagalizing it once again. But 35 states have endorsed legalizing medical marijuana and 9 or 11 have already legalized it for medicinal uses.

The people of the United States CHOOSE marijuana to be illegal.
What they want, they get. Is that not what democracy is all about? Satisfying the majority rule?

1. It's the politicians that banned it, not ordinary people.
2. They also have convinced people that it needs to be banned.
3. Given that so many teenager have used it, I'd say that it is not all that unpopular. This is a case of tyranny of the majority.

Just because alcohol is worse dosen't, to me, represent a good enough reason to legalize marijuana. Ideally, alcohol would be banned.

Right, but the fact that drunkeness causes car accidents hasn't been enough reason to make alcohol illegal, has it? Unless you can show that people are more likely to DUI with pot that with alcohol, this point doesn't really work
But you must admit America has had Alcohol longer. So eventually we dod try to ban alcohol, Prohibition. But we gave up the fight. I think we should go back to it.

You forgot another con...this is mostly for America.


The people of the United States CHOOSE marijuana to be illegal.
What they want, they get. Is that not what democracy is all about? Satisfying the majority rule?

You could argue that a big reason that why the citizens choose it to be illegal is that it is already illegal. The negative connotations connected with something being illegal can influence the public's opinion of the thing. (I don't know how much sense that makes, but I have a point).

For example, most Americans (I think) approve of the death penalty. At the least, a lot of Americans do. Many American states have got the death penalty. In Australia, very few people want the death penalty introduced. Now, I don't see any fundamental differences between Americans and Australians, but I reckon that the very fact that the death penalty is in place in the States influences Americans' opinions of the death penalty (and vice versa).

Again, if that doesn't make any sense, let me know.

Trimbos surveys 10,000 Dutch schoolchildren every four years. The last study, in 1999, showed a small decline in cannabis use - 20 per cent of those aged 15-16 had tried it, and 5 per cent smoked it regularly. Less than one in 1,000 had tried heroin. The same year the European Drug Monitoring Centre found 40 per cent of British children the same age had tried cannabis, and one in 50 had used heroin.

But when you use math by their counts: 2000 children have tried it. 20% of 10k= 2000
1/1000 = 10 use heroin.
Another question who has a better chance of paying for heroin? Adults. What has a better chance of children getting? Pot.

So it might still be a gateway drug but you need money to finance this shift.

But I guess we can't know their reasons.
Actually, thats less than 1/1000, so odds are more than 1/2000, we can probably say betwen 6 and 9 people had used heroin, but thats only a minor quibble. The major one is that, 2% of british teens had tried it, compared to 0.1% of dutch teens. Thats 20 times fewer. The price of the drug does not significantly vary between Britain and Holland, and by logical extenstion, neither does the availibility, so that does show that Holland is doing significantly better.

But you must admit America has had Alcohol longer. So eventually we dod try to ban alcohol, Prohibition. But we gave up the fight. I think we should go back to it.
Despite the fact that it failed utterly, increasing public drunkeness hugely compared to pre-prohibition?

Also, America has had them almost exactly the same time, as hemp was grown at the time of Washington, and alcohol was produced as well.

But car accidents can happen and cars can kil people.
They could also accidently shoot someone but then again they shouldn't have had gone out and unlocked. Of course that would be blaming the victim so it is marijuanas fault.



Violence isn't only factor is crime.
And a lot of people kill themselves and others by being just plain stupid, but that's not outlawed. Sure, we'd all be a lot safer if we didn't have any civil rights, but I prefer the infinitesimal chance that I will be killed as a result of our liberties to living in complete fear under absolute control of the government.

Actually Pot can be addicting but yu won't notice right asway.
Pot puts a little THC stored in your brain for later. Every day the amount left is cut in half, it can take a long time to get rid of it all.
But as soon as it does you will start noticing the withdrawals.

Well, I can tell you from personal experience... I smoked A LOT in the last months of my senior year, and in the years immediately after graduating from college... and then I stopped, pretty abruptly, when I started graduate school.

I NEVER noticed any withdrawal symptoms... never had any cravings... never.

So, if there is research that points to delayed withdrawal symptoms, I am perhaps willing to believe that there is a chemical change in your brain... but it must be so minor as to be nearly imperceptible, at least subjectively.

Did you know that gorillas like to chew marijuana leaves... and that afterward they appear to space out for a few hours?

I don't believe that gateway drug bs. I've never met anyone who smoked weed and became addicted to "harder" drugs.

I've seen it. But I certainly don't believe it was the marijuana's fault. They were addiction-prone and reckless individuals to begin with.

And about breathalyzers not being able to pick it up? Unless the cop has a SEVERE sinus infection, that shouldn't be a problem. =)

Absolutely. And that's a good thing... I'm all for regulating what people do when they're operating an automobile!!


And another thing, lots of crime is committed by people under the influence of alcohol, but I've never see anyone get violent when they were high.

Me neither.

Did you know that gorillas like to chew marijuana leaves... and that afterward they appear to space out for a few hours?
That's it, I'm gettin me a gorilla! We could watch movies, eat Triscuits, play Donkey Kong... Aaaaahhhh... Good times.

I don't know enough about the contents/chemicals present in marijuana, nor their interaction with the human mind or body. I have met people who use the drug, and debated with some as well; I can't pinpoint exactly what it is, but something about them leaves a sense of unease.

I guess the best way to explain it would be like this: have you ever walked in to your room, and felt something had been moved, or just wasn't quite in the right place? That something was off ever so slightly? But you couldn't pinpoint what that was, it was just a gut feeling?

It is sort of like that.

Yeah, man... And when you're high, that feeling is really funny!


:sniper:

Despite the fact that it failed utterly, increasing public drunkeness hugely compared to pre-prohibition?

Actually, Prohibition "worked," in the sense that alcohol usage declined while it was prohibited... people get confused by the fact that arrests for "alcohol-related crimes" increased -- but of course they did, since having alcohol was illegal!!!

Not that I think Prohibition was a good idea. I just think people should get their facts straight.

Yeah, dude, like totally. Fight the good fight, man.

No, seriously, I'm all in favor of legalizing marijuana. It'd almost certainly reduce the market for tobacco, as it provides a greater benefit with as many or possibly fewer risks. Anything that makes life hard for the tobacco companies is okay in my book.