NationStates Jolt Archive

I found this story to hard to resist. Here John Mc Cain receives a rousing round of applause for denouncing Michael Moore, yet in the interviews with amy Goodman later, many Republicans admit to not seeing the film Fahrenheit 911 and yet the comments they make are well unbelieveable to say the least.

It is much like the Moore bashers here, who likewise have not seen the film yet have all kinds of comments to make.

I can see that many Republicans are guilty of contempt prior to investigation?

Check it out here!! (http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/08/31/148245)

I guess all the Republicans are watching the convention? Bash away liberals while the mice are preoccupied.

I hear faint squeaking coming from the right-winger threads... hm, no, that was just their toys that were meant to distract us. Never mind.

Arnold Swarcheneggar is addressing the convention.

He said the dems should have called their convention "true lies". That was a good one.

Arnold Schwarzenegger was a girlie man for all those guys he used to pose for before he became famous

Arnold Swarcheneggar is addressing the convention.

He said the dems should have called their convention "true lies". That was a good one.
Ah, you can always count on Arnie to say something intelligent.

Arnold Swarcheneggar is addressing the convention.

He said the dems should have called their convention "true lies". That was a good one.
Funny how he should address the convention with an oxymoron. I am amused.

Arnold Swarcheneggar is addressing the convention.

He said the dems should have called their convention "true lies". That was a good one.
Great movie too!
Arni said: You are a republican if you believe...
1. Goverment should accountable to people, not people to govt.

And yet Bush fought against 9/11 commission so I guess he's not a Republican...

2. If you believe your family knows how to spend your money better than govt

You know Articles of Confederation thought so too and yet it failed...

There was more but eh. I'm lazy lol

Arnold Schwarzenegger was a girlie man for all those guys he used to pose for before he became famous
He just said that Democrats who are claiming America has a bad economy are "economic girly men." Another good shot fired at the dems.

He just said that Democrats who are claiming America has a bad economy are "economic girly men." Another good shot fired at the dems.
More like ignorance of denial of the Republicans.

Another good one:
"Leadership is not about following polls. Its about doing making decisions that are right." Paraphrased.

He just said that Democrats who are claiming America has a bad economy are "economic girly men." Another good shot fired at the dems.
maybe he can use his bad accent to explain to all the millions of unemployed and underemployed people in Bushs economy and the millions priced out of health care or to the walmart slaves this strange concept of his

Another good one:
"Leadership is not about following polls. Its about doing making decisions that are right." Paraphrased.
Very true. What made FDR decent wasn't all the excessive failed socialism, but how he went against public opinion and helped the Allies out before Dec. 1941.

Another good one:
"Leadership is not about following polls. Its about doing making decisions that are right." Paraphrased.
name one right decision Bush made for america--just one will do

maybe he can use his bad accent to explain to all the millions of unemployed and underemployed people in Bushs economy and the millions priced out of health care or to the walmart slaves this strange concept of his
Just remember that Walmart got govt. kickbacks under Clinton.

I find it interestin that Arnold is making very generalized grandiose statements but he cant point to any specific success of Bushs--is anyone buying this crap?

name one right decision Bush made for america--just one will do
Invading afghanistan.
Invading Iraq.
No child left behind.
Demanding that Sudan end ethnic cleansing.
Demanding that Iran stop promoting civil wars around the world.

Just remember that Walmart got govt. kickbacks under Clinton.
which is why I bash Clinton too--Im not a blind party animal the way herd thinking republicans are

which is why I bash Clinton too--Im not a blind party animal the way herd thinking republicans are
No. It would be the dems that are herd animals. All they do is follow.
Every Republican is a leader. Republicans are individualists, they make their own decisions.
Republicans believe people are individual humans. To democrats, people are nothing more than numbers and statistics.

Invading afghanistan.
Invading Iraq.
No child left behind.
Demanding that Sudan end ethnic cleansing.
Demanding that Iran stop promoting civil wars around the world.
I agree with the first point. I disagree with the second point. I agree with the third point. I agree with the forth point. That is, if those actually occurred.

Invading afghanistan.
Yes, although he shouldn't have been turning a blind eye to it as he did. Our de facto approval of the Taliban was a big mistake in retrospect.
Invading Iraq.
Big mistake.
No child left behind.
We have yet to see if this is really working or not; although I've heard numerous complaints about it, that's typical of any education initiative. Of course, most big-name education initiatives are also crap, so I'm not going to put any stock in it until I see real positive results coming up out of the system.
Demanding that Sudan end ethnic cleansing.
A good call, but one that should've happened a great deal earlier and with a great deal more emphasis. If we didn't get bogged down in Iraq in a hurry, we would have had the credibility to help put an end to it through normal channels.
Demanding that Iran stop promoting civil wars around the world.
Since when did Iran go around globally inciting civil wars? They've tended to be rather insular in their foreign policy - the USA incites civil wars.

I'll give you a real one - well, ok, it was admittedly a big payoff to multinational drug companies if you really think about it, but still - agreeing to increase funding to help fight AIDS back in... was it 2002?

Am I the only one who finds it creepy how Mrs. Bush's speech tonight saw her smiling brightly while she talked cheerfully about the Bush dog dying?

No. It would be the dems that are herd animals. All they do is follow.
Every Republican is a leader. Republicans are individualists, they make their own decisions.
Individualists huh? Leaders huh? Follow, you mean like this lady at the Convention?

AMY GOODMAN: And your name? Where are you from?

SANDY ERDLING: My name is Sandy Erdling. I'm from Wassau, Wisconsin.

AMY GOODMAN: And your reaction to tonight?

SANDY ERDLING: It was wonderful. Both John McCain and Giuliani, telling America what it's all about. What this country is all about. Where we will go with President Bush.

AMY GOODMAN: What makes you a republican?

SANDY ERDLING: I've been a republican, I was raised republican. And I looked at the philosophy, I evaluated the philosophy of both parties when I became an adult. And I decided the Republican Party was for me.

AMY GOODMAN: What's the most important issue to you?

SANDY ERDLING: The most important issue is morals. I have grandchildren, and I think I want them to grow up in a country like I grew up in as a child. Not like it's been the last 10 years. And President Bush is doing a terrific job trying to turn things around.

Ummm the country that she grew up in as a kid is long gone? Moms used to stay home back then, and did all the cooking and cleaning? And Bush is making it easier to get back to these good old days? Puke!!
AMY GOODMAN: What did you think of the protests outside this weekend?

SANDY ERDLING: I just ignored it, because everywhere we go, whether it’s -- in Wisconsin, there are protesters. We don’t do it. We take the high ground. And I just ignore it. That's all about living in America. That you're able to do these things.

AMY GOODMAN: Have you seen Fahrenheit 9/11?

SANDY ERDLING: I wouldn't waste my money on it.

AMY GOODMAN: Why?

SANDY ERDLING: Because of his other movie, about Columbine, I didn't believe that movie. My daughter saw it and she said, “Mother, you have to see this ridiculous movie.” And I don't like Michael Moore. He's from Michigan, he's from the Midwest. And I thought he probably was a Californian. I was really surprised to hear he was from the Midwest.

AMY GOODMAN: Why?

SANDY ERDLING: And have that type of an attitude like he has. I mean, years ago, someone like Michael Moore would be tried for treason about the terrible things he has done and said about our country.
AMY GOODMAN: Like what?

Treason huh? And she didn't even see the movie!!

SANDY ERDLING: Well, all lies. I mean, we have a military over in Iraq, and -- and he doesn’t agree with our president. And we should be supporting the situation in Iraq, instead of talking about it and ridiculing it. As a true American.

All lies huh? And she didn't even see the movie!! And everyone should just support da leader huh?

AMY GOODMAN: In the film he interviews a woman who lost her son in Iraq. And the idea that to support the troops is to bring them home. What's your reaction to that?

SANDY ERDLING: To support the troops is to bring them home. Well, I think, I think you have to ask the troops that. The people that are serving over in Iraq are, they want to be there. And I have, I work, we have a, a, we have a headquarters and we have people that come and volunteer to do telephone calling for George Bush, because they have sons in Iraq and they want to help. And they're very proud of the president. And they feel very secure with our president. And these are mothers, these are mothers in Wassau, Wisconsin.

Yeah and what about the mother in Flint, who lost her son in Iraq? Yeah and I am sure they ALL want to be over there?

Republicans are leaders HUH?

Just remember that Walmart got govt. kickbacks under Clinton.

And from this we infer. . .that something is okay if President Clinton does it? Wow, you really are an individualist Republican. Or you just don't know a Me-Too fallacy when you spout one. . .

Amy Goodman is the most relevant reporters in America today. Im glad you discovered her Canuck--she has guts and integrity in a profession dominated by spineless discusting worms

Amy Goodman is the most relevant reporters in America today. Im glad you discovered her Canuck--she has guts and integrity in a profession dominated by spineless discusting worms

From your words, I suddenly had a vision of Robert Novak's head atop the body of a tape worm, coiled snugly in the lower gastro-intestinal tract of George W.

name one right decision Bush made for america--just one will do

I'm a liberal, just so you know and I hate Bush, But here's a good thing he did:

Start the war on terrorISM(YOU CAN'T FIGHT A FEELING!) but, only Afghanistan counts.

From your words, I suddenly had a vision of Robert Novak's head atop the body of a tape worm, coiled snugly in the lower gastro-intestinal tract of George W.
LMFAO :p

I'm a liberal, just so you know and I hate Bush, But here's a good thing he did:

Start the war on terrorISM(YOU CAN'T FIGHT A FEELING!) but, only Afghanistan counts.
it can be argued that he INCREASED terrorism by attacking Iraq and making America lose the moral high ground tho

Invading afghanistan.
Invading Iraq.
No child left behind.
Demanding that Sudan end ethnic cleansing.
Demanding that Iran stop promoting civil wars around the world.

Okay.... what if the civil war Iran was promoting was good for the country (if a civil war can be 100% good)?

Didn't he stop funding the N.C.L.B. act?(I don't know about this.. so forgive me if i'm wrong)

I don't think telling some crazed country (Sudan) to stop ethnic cleansing will work.

Iraq... well... to me it's a win-lose situation and it may turn to a full losing situation.

Afghanistan- Completely justified! In fact, I wish someone did something about the Taliban by like '97.

Okay.... what if the civil war Iran was promoting was good for the country (if a civil war can be 100% good)?

Didn't he stop funding the N.C.L.B. act?(I don't know about this.. so forgive me if i'm wrong)

I don't think telling some crazed country (Sudan) to stop ethnic cleansing will work.

Iraq... well... to me it's a win-lose situation and it may turn to a full losing situation.

Afghanistan- Completely justified! In fact, I wish someone did something about the Taliban by like '97.
Bush is LOSING the war on terrorism by putting ALL his resources into the Iraqi quagmire and now he wants to overextend US forces even further by invading Iran...

Invading afghanistan.
Invading Iraq.
No child left behind.
Demanding that Sudan end ethnic cleansing.
Demanding that Iran stop promoting civil wars around the world.

Let's see...

Invading Iraq--claiming that as a victory now is premature. History will decide; people are still fighting over there (there have been more US soldiers killed in Iraq this year so far, than in ALL of last year).

No Child Left Behind--great that he values education. Be even better if this were actually funded properly. As it stands now, little more than a hollow measure taken to be able to say "I value education."

The two demands--I keep up with the news fairly well, and I've not heard word one about either one. Guess he must've really demanded hard, huh? Good things to demand, though, I will say that.

I left Afghanistan for the end because I've got the most to say about that. Invading there, kicking out the Taliban, installing the Northern Alliance, I have to rank as one of George's biggest flubs. First off, Afghanistan didn't attack us any more than Iraq did. Yes, they were harboring Bin Laden; however, given the US's general disrespect for international law and other nations' sovereignty, I should think that going in quietly and just taking out the terrorists would have been the best plan, rather than bombing Afghanistan back to the stone age (which they were pretty much in to begin with), creating a huge ruckus, and letting Bin Laden escape with ease. Secondly, as I just mentioned, we failed in our PRIMARY objective, the capture of Bin Laden. Third, you will notice that Afghanistan rarely makes the news these days. Many people believe that that is because it's a decent place now. NOT TRUE. Many parts of Afghanistan are worse off now than when we started. The Taliban were (and still are; they aren't dead) extremists, but they were once part of the Northern Alliance, and broke off over a TERRITORY DISPUTE. The Northern Alliance is formed of many different factions, a great number of which are ruthless warlord thugs no better (and in some cases, worse) than the Taliban. The central government may be supposedly giving the people freedom, but they have little to no power. Afghani culture dictates that local authority holds power, and the people distrust centralized government. Many of the local warlord authorities have private armies and police forces utterly under their control, and the central government is largely powerless to stop it. Another of our grand effects, is that Afghanistan recently became the heroin producing capital of the world. Production of narcotics (opium in particular) went against the rules of the Taliban, but is allowed, encouraged, and even forced upon the people by many warlords.


As to republicans all being leaders and suchnot, that was a very nice blanket statement. A very nice, utterly false blanket statement. Some of the idiots I've met disprove your theory quite handily. There are fools on all sides; you would do good to remember that.

I would also appreciate it if conservatives would stop acting as though Clinton were the poster boy for liberals. I can't stand Bush, but I don't like a lot of what Clinton did either. In truth, if you look at him, he's not even all that liberal; he's a moderate.

I think I'm done now.

Let's see...

Invading Iraq--claiming that as a victory now is premature. History will decide; people are still fighting over there (there have been more US soldiers killed in Iraq this year so far, than in ALL of last year).

No Child Left Behind--great that he values education. Be even better if this were actually funded properly. As it stands now, little more than a hollow measure taken to be able to say "I value education."

The two demands--I keep up with the news fairly well, and I've not heard word one about either one. Guess he must've really demanded hard, huh? Good things to demand, though, I will say that.

I left Afghanistan for the end because I've got the most to say about that. Invading there, kicking out the Taliban, installing the Northern Alliance, I have to rank as one of George's biggest flubs. First off, Afghanistan didn't attack us any more than Iraq did. Yes, they were harboring Bin Laden; however, given the US's general disrespect for international law and other nations' sovereignty, I should think that going in quietly and just taking out the terrorists would have been the best plan, rather than bombing Afghanistan back to the stone age (which they were pretty much in to begin with), creating a huge ruckus, and letting Bin Laden escape with ease. Secondly, as I just mentioned, we failed in our PRIMARY objective, the capture of Bin Laden. Third, you will notice that Afghanistan rarely makes the news these days. Many people believe that that is because it's a decent place now. NOT TRUE. Many parts of Afghanistan are worse off now than when we started. The Taliban were (and still are; they aren't dead) extremists, but they were once part of the Northern Alliance, and broke off over a TERRITORY DISPUTE. The Northern Alliance is formed of many different factions, a great number of which are ruthless warlord thugs no better (and in some cases, worse) than the Taliban. The central government may be supposedly giving the people freedom, but they have little to no power. Afghani culture dictates that local authority holds power, and the people distrust centralized government. Many of the local warlord authorities have private armies and police forces utterly under their control, and the central government is largely powerless to stop it. Another of our grand effects, is that Afghanistan recently became the heroin producing capital of the world. Production of narcotics (opium in particular) went against the rules of the Taliban, but is allowed, encouraged, and even forced upon the people by many warlords.


As to republicans all being leaders and suchnot, that was a very nice blanket statement. A very nice, utterly false blanket statement. Some of the idiots I've met disprove your theory quite handily. There are fools on all sides; you would do good to remember that.

I would also appreciate it if conservatives would stop acting as though Clinton were the poster boy for liberals. I can't stand Bush, but I don't like a lot of what Clinton did either. In truth, if you look at him, he's not even all that liberal; he's a moderate.

I think I'm done now.
lol Michael Moore says Clinton is the best Republican President we ever had

it can be argued that he INCREASED terrorism by attacking Iraq and making America lose the moral high ground tho

You make a great point. But I only said Afghanistan.. and there's pretty much no terrorism there.

You make a great point. But I only said Afghanistan.. and there's pretty much no terrorism there.
I agree with Bush attacking Afghanistan but did you know that Bush first wanted to attack Iraq and that Blair had to fight to convince him to attack Afghanistan first instead?

You make a great point. But I only said Afghanistan.. and there's pretty much no terrorism there.

WHAT?!? I sure hope you're being sarcastic.

Bush is LOSING the war on terrorism by putting ALL his resources into the Iraqi quagmire and now he wants to overextend US forces even further by invading Iran...

Oh God! He wants to invade Iran??? Well, if he does, I have something to say. DAMN YOU BUSH! Wait... the Iranians killed a Canadian reporter for taking pictures of a prison. DAMN YOU IRAN! YOU'RE GOING DOWN!

I agree with Bush attacking Afghanistan but did you know that Bush first wanted to attack Iraq and that Blair had to fight to convince him to attack Afghanistan first instead?

I'm generally on your side, but I'd love to see the source for that. Bush is just stupid enough to do that, but I'd like to have some proof before I embrace it.

Individualists huh? Leaders huh? Follow, you mean like this lady at the Convention?

AMY GOODMAN: And your name? Where are you from?

SANDY ERDLING: My name is Sandy Erdling. I'm from Wassau, Wisconsin.

AMY GOODMAN: And your reaction to tonight?

SANDY ERDLING: It was wonderful. Both John McCain and Giuliani, telling America what it's all about. What this country is all about. Where we will go with President Bush.

AMY GOODMAN: What makes you a republican?

SANDY ERDLING: I've been a republican, I was raised republican. And I looked at the philosophy, I evaluated the philosophy of both parties when I became an adult. And I decided the Republican Party was for me.

AMY GOODMAN: What's the most important issue to you?

SANDY ERDLING: The most important issue is morals. I have grandchildren, and I think I want them to grow up in a country like I grew up in as a child. Not like it's been the last 10 years. And President Bush is doing a terrific job trying to turn things around.

Ummm the country that she grew up in as a kid is long gone? Moms used to stay home back then, and did all the cooking and cleaning? And Bush is making it easier to get back to these good old days? Puke!!
AMY GOODMAN: What did you think of the protests outside this weekend?

SANDY ERDLING: I just ignored it, because everywhere we go, whether it’s -- in Wisconsin, there are protesters. We don’t do it. We take the high ground. And I just ignore it. That's all about living in America. That you're able to do these things.

AMY GOODMAN: Have you seen Fahrenheit 9/11?

SANDY ERDLING: I wouldn't waste my money on it.

AMY GOODMAN: Why?

SANDY ERDLING: Because of his other movie, about Columbine, I didn't believe that movie. My daughter saw it and she said, “Mother, you have to see this ridiculous movie.” And I don't like Michael Moore. He's from Michigan, he's from the Midwest. And I thought he probably was a Californian. I was really surprised to hear he was from the Midwest.

AMY GOODMAN: Why?

SANDY ERDLING: And have that type of an attitude like he has. I mean, years ago, someone like Michael Moore would be tried for treason about the terrible things he has done and said about our country.
AMY GOODMAN: Like what?

Treason huh? And she didn't even see the movie!!

SANDY ERDLING: Well, all lies. I mean, we have a military over in Iraq, and -- and he doesn’t agree with our president. And we should be supporting the situation in Iraq, instead of talking about it and ridiculing it. As a true American.

All lies huh? And she didn't even see the movie!! And everyone should just support da leader huh?

AMY GOODMAN: In the film he interviews a woman who lost her son in Iraq. And the idea that to support the troops is to bring them home. What's your reaction to that?

SANDY ERDLING: To support the troops is to bring them home. Well, I think, I think you have to ask the troops that. The people that are serving over in Iraq are, they want to be there. And I have, I work, we have a, a, we have a headquarters and we have people that come and volunteer to do telephone calling for George Bush, because they have sons in Iraq and they want to help. And they're very proud of the president. And they feel very secure with our president. And these are mothers, these are mothers in Wassau, Wisconsin.

Yeah and what about the mother in Flint, who lost her son in Iraq? Yeah and I am sure they ALL want to be over there?

Republicans are leaders HUH?

I'm saddened to see such things. It really looks like there is no hope for the country because of people like this. Oh yes, we shouldn't ever disagree with the leaders of the country. Besides this is a dictatorship and we will be shot for doing so. And of course if someone has a descenting opinion to yours they are always wrong. You shouldn't listen to what they say because they don't have a point, and everything they say is a lie. You should just go back to watching the News channels that force feeds you your opinion and doesn't challenge you in any way. Nor does it give discenting opinions, unless they have actors or comedians to give those opinions. That way it makes the other side look stupid.

Oh God! He wants to invade Iran??? Well, if he does, I have something to say. DAMN YOU BUSH! Wait... the Iranians killed a Canadian reporter for taking pictures of a prison. DAMN YOU IRAN! YOU'RE GOING DOWN!
Bush thinks hes on a mission from God to fulfill biblical prophecy by starting Armaggedon

I'm generally on your side, but I'd love to see the source for that. Bush is just stupid enough to do that, but I'd like to have some proof before I embrace it.
immediately after 9/11 Rumsfeld was blaming Iraq--Source. Paul O'Neill a Republican former member of the Bush administration who witnessed these things firsthand

I'm saddened to see such things. It really looks like there is no hope for the country because of people like this. Oh yes, we shouldn't ever disagree with the leaders of the country. Besides this is a dictatorship and we will be shot for doing so. And of course if someone has a descenting opinion to yours they are always wrong. You shouldn't listen to what they say because they don't have a point, and everything they say is a lie. You should just go back to watching the News channels that force feeds you your opinion and doesn't challenge you in any way. Nor does it give discenting opinions, unless they have actors or comedians to give those opinions. That way it makes the other side look stupid.
the scariest part of all is that people with this exact same mindset dominate the media too and the media has totally abandoned its role as a watchdog and become a mouthpiece for facism

he problem is that media has been allowed to be concentrated into too few sources...when you have 100 media companies under one parent, there's a problem. When the media was more local and less unified, competition kept them more honest, as they would be attacked/corrected eventually by one of their competitors.

lol Michael Moore says Clinton is the best Republican President we ever had
Hope that didn't post. Meant yeppers, read the same thing. Skip the last post if it went.

Let's see...

Invading Iraq--claiming that as a victory now is premature. History will decide; people are still fighting over there (there have been more US soldiers killed in Iraq this year so far, than in ALL of last year).

No Child Left Behind--great that he values education. Be even better if this were actually funded properly. As it stands now, little more than a hollow measure taken to be able to say "I value education."

The two demands--I keep up with the news fairly well, and I've not heard word one about either one. Guess he must've really demanded hard, huh? Good things to demand, though, I will say that.

I left Afghanistan for the end because I've got the most to say about that. Invading there, kicking out the Taliban, installing the Northern Alliance, I have to rank as one of George's biggest flubs. First off, Afghanistan didn't attack us any more than Iraq did. Yes, they were harboring Bin Laden; however, given the US's general disrespect for international law and other nations' sovereignty, I should think that going in quietly and just taking out the terrorists would have been the best plan, rather than bombing Afghanistan back to the stone age (which they were pretty much in to begin with), creating a huge ruckus, and letting Bin Laden escape with ease. Secondly, as I just mentioned, we failed in our PRIMARY objective, the capture of Bin Laden. Third, you will notice that Afghanistan rarely makes the news these days. Many people believe that that is because it's a decent place now. NOT TRUE. Many parts of Afghanistan are worse off now than when we started. The Taliban were (and still are; they aren't dead) extremists, but they were once part of the Northern Alliance, and broke off over a TERRITORY DISPUTE. The Northern Alliance is formed of many different factions, a great number of which are ruthless warlord thugs no better (and in some cases, worse) than the Taliban. The central government may be supposedly giving the people freedom, but they have little to no power. Afghani culture dictates that local authority holds power, and the people distrust centralized government. Many of the local warlord authorities have private armies and police forces utterly under their control, and the central government is largely powerless to stop it. Another of our grand effects, is that Afghanistan recently became the heroin producing capital of the world. Production of narcotics (opium in particular) went against the rules of the Taliban, but is allowed, encouraged, and even forced upon the people by many warlords.


As to republicans all being leaders and suchnot, that was a very nice blanket statement. A very nice, utterly false blanket statement. Some of the idiots I've met disprove your theory quite handily. There are fools on all sides; you would do good to remember that.

I would also appreciate it if conservatives would stop acting as though Clinton were the poster boy for liberals. I can't stand Bush, but I don't like a lot of what Clinton did either. In truth, if you look at him, he's not even all that liberal; he's a moderate.

I think I'm done now.
Amen to that!

name one right decision Bush made for america--just one will do

He stands against affirmative action, if reluctantly.

And yes, I was hard-pressed to come up with one. The rest have been pretty awful.

AMY GOODMAN: And your name? Where are you from?

SANDY ERDLING: My name is Sandy Erdling. I'm from Wassau, Wisconsin.

AMY GOODMAN: And your reaction to tonight?

SANDY ERDLING: It was wonderful. Both John McCain and Giuliani, telling America what it's all about. What this country is all about. Where we will go with President Bush.

AMY GOODMAN: What makes you a republican?

SANDY ERDLING: I've been a republican, I was raised republican. And I looked at the philosophy, I evaluated the philosophy of both parties when I became an adult. And I decided the Republican Party was for me.

AMY GOODMAN: What's the most important issue to you?

SANDY ERDLING: The most important issue is morals. I have grandchildren, and I think I want them to grow up in a country like I grew up in as a child. Not like it's been the last 10 years. And President Bush is doing a terrific job trying to turn things around.

AMY GOODMAN: What did you think of the protests outside this weekend?

SANDY ERDLING: I just ignored it, because everywhere we go, whether it’s -- in Wisconsin, there are protesters. We don’t do it. We take the high ground. And I just ignore it. That's all about living in America. That you're able to do these things.

AMY GOODMAN: Have you seen Fahrenheit 9/11?

SANDY ERDLING: I wouldn't waste my money on it.

AMY GOODMAN: Why?

SANDY ERDLING: Because of his other movie, about Columbine, I didn't believe that movie. My daughter saw it and she said, “Mother, you have to see this ridiculous movie.” And I don't like Michael Moore. He's from Michigan, he's from the Midwest. And I thought he probably was a Californian. I was really surprised to hear he was from the Midwest.

AMY GOODMAN: Why?

SANDY ERDLING: And have that type of an attitude like he has. I mean, years ago, someone like Michael Moore would be tried for treason about the terrible things he has done and said about our country.

AMY GOODMAN: Like what?

SANDY ERDLING: Well, all lies. I mean, we have a military over in Iraq, and -- and he doesn’t agree with our president. And we should be supporting the situation in Iraq, instead of talking about it and ridiculing it. As a true American.

AMY GOODMAN: In the film he interviews a woman who lost her son in Iraq. And the idea that to support the troops is to bring them home. What's your reaction to that?

SANDY ERDLING: To support the troops is to bring them home. Well, I think, I think you have to ask the troops that. The people that are serving over in Iraq are, they want to be there. And I have, I work, we have a, a, we have a headquarters and we have people that come and volunteer to do telephone calling for George Bush, because they have sons in Iraq and they want to help. And they're very proud of the president. And they feel very secure with our president. And these are mothers, these are mothers in Wassau, Wisconsin.

I go to sleep every night praying that by the time I go to bed again the world will have changed in some climactic way so that people this blind and stupid either no longer exist, or have realized how blind they were and taken steps to educate and emancipate themselves from the mental slavery they are being held in.

I go to sleep every night praying that by the time I go to bed again the world will have changed in some climactic way so that people this blind and stupid either no longer exist, or have realized how blind they were and taken steps to educate and emancipate themselves from the mental slavery they are being held in.

why because theres a second point of view?

i see the danger but i dont see the wrong.

immediately after 9/11 Rumsfeld was blaming Iraq--Source. Paul O'Neill a Republican former member of the Bush administration who witnessed these things firsthand


Well let’s look at this. The first word is immediately so this means before we knew who had done it. Now knowing how much Iraq hated the US for putting this restrictions on him on what weapons he could have and how everyone knew if he could Saddam would have WMD by now it was a logical choice. You however bring this up in a way that makes it sound like Bush knew that Osama had done this and still wanted to go after Saddam first. Your source on the other hand, which doesn’t even mention Bush, implies otherwise. The Internet is a great place. Where else could I meet someone who would do anything to show Bush as evil and or an idiot as badly as you?

Well let’s look at this. The first word is immediately so this means before we knew who had done it. Now knowing how much Iraq hated the US for putting this restrictions on him on what weapons he could have and how everyone knew if he could Saddam would have WMD by now it was a logical choice. You however bring this up in a way that makes it sound like Bush knew that Osama had done this and still wanted to go after Saddam first. Your source on the other hand, which doesn’t even mention Bush, implies otherwise. The Internet is a great place. Where else could I meet someone who would do anything to show Bush as evil and or an idiot as badly as you?
Judging by your join date and post count, I'm guessing that you don't know yet that responding to MKUltra isn't worth your time.

why because theres a second point of view?

i see the danger but i dont see the wrong.It's not the second point of view that scares me. It's the lack of evidence of any independent thought or analytical ability. (And yes, I suspect there are probably an equal number of Democrat "party loyalists" who are exactly the same). Blindly following any leader is very dangerous. Suggesting they should be above criticism in times of war is ten times worse.

I found this story to hard to resist. Here John Mc Cain receives a rousing round of applause for denouncing Michael Moore, yet in the interviews with amy Goodman later, many Republicans admit to not seeing the film Fahrenheit 911

Honestly, as a liberal, I have to say that a lot of Moore's stuff, no matter how plausible, is somewhat sensationalist

Judging by your join date and post count, I'm guessing that you don't know yet that responding to MKUltra isn't worth your time.

The more I read I see that; however I learned not to just roll your eyes at least question them once. If you gave Marathon or The Red Arrow a little slack and they just made another thread about how evil one side was to another. Still to this day I think Marathon was a liberal impersonating a conservative and RA was a conservative impersonating a liberal (both guys were real putzes especially if I’m right).

The more I read I see that; however I learned not to just roll your eyes at least question them once. If you gave Marathon or The Red Arrow a little slack and they just made another thread about how evil one side was to another. Still to this day I think Marathon was a liberal impersonating a conservative and RA was a conservative impersonating a liberal (both guys were real putzes especially if I’m right).
MKULtra and The Red Arrow are the same people. (TRA was deleted for spamming I think)

Just remember that Walmart got govt. kickbacks under Clinton.

Which party controlled Congress under Clinton?

Invading afghanistan.
No argument but has he finished the job there? Taliban is on the way back.

Invading Iraq.

Arguable.

No child left behind.

And yet cuts funding for it.

Demanding that Sudan end ethnic cleansing.
Demanding that Iran stop promoting civil wars around the world.

Last I checked both are still doing what they do.....

Individualists huh? Leaders huh? Follow, you mean like this lady at the Convention?

AMY GOODMAN: And your name? Where are you from?

SANDY ERDLING: My name is Sandy Erdling. I'm from Wassau, Wisconsin.

AMY GOODMAN: And your reaction to tonight?

SANDY ERDLING: It was wonderful. Both John McCain and Giuliani, telling America what it's all about. What this country is all about. Where we will go with President Bush.

AMY GOODMAN: What makes you a republican?

SANDY ERDLING: I've been a republican, I was raised republican. And I looked at the philosophy, I evaluated the philosophy of both parties when I became an adult. And I decided the Republican Party was for me.

AMY GOODMAN: What's the most important issue to you?

SANDY ERDLING: The most important issue is morals. I have grandchildren, and I think I want them to grow up in a country like I grew up in as a child. Not like it's been the last 10 years. And President Bush is doing a terrific job trying to turn things around.

Ummm the country that she grew up in as a kid is long gone? Moms used to stay home back then, and did all the cooking and cleaning? And Bush is making it easier to get back to these good old days? Puke!!
AMY GOODMAN: What did you think of the protests outside this weekend?

SANDY ERDLING: I just ignored it, because everywhere we go, whether it’s -- in Wisconsin, there are protesters. We don’t do it. We take the high ground. And I just ignore it. That's all about living in America. That you're able to do these things.

AMY GOODMAN: Have you seen Fahrenheit 9/11?

SANDY ERDLING: I wouldn't waste my money on it.

AMY GOODMAN: Why?

SANDY ERDLING: Because of his other movie, about Columbine, I didn't believe that movie. My daughter saw it and she said, “Mother, you have to see this ridiculous movie.” And I don't like Michael Moore. He's from Michigan, he's from the Midwest. And I thought he probably was a Californian. I was really surprised to hear he was from the Midwest.

AMY GOODMAN: Why?

SANDY ERDLING: And have that type of an attitude like he has. I mean, years ago, someone like Michael Moore would be tried for treason about the terrible things he has done and said about our country.
AMY GOODMAN: Like what?

Treason huh? And she didn't even see the movie!!

SANDY ERDLING: Well, all lies. I mean, we have a military over in Iraq, and -- and he doesn’t agree with our president. And we should be supporting the situation in Iraq, instead of talking about it and ridiculing it. As a true American.

All lies huh? And she didn't even see the movie!! And everyone should just support da leader huh?

AMY GOODMAN: In the film he interviews a woman who lost her son in Iraq. And the idea that to support the troops is to bring them home. What's your reaction to that?

SANDY ERDLING: To support the troops is to bring them home. Well, I think, I think you have to ask the troops that. The people that are serving over in Iraq are, they want to be there. And I have, I work, we have a, a, we have a headquarters and we have people that come and volunteer to do telephone calling for George Bush, because they have sons in Iraq and they want to help. And they're very proud of the president. And they feel very secure with our president. And these are mothers, these are mothers in Wassau, Wisconsin.

Yeah and what about the mother in Flint, who lost her son in Iraq? Yeah and I am sure they ALL want to be over there?

Republicans are leaders HUH?

F 911 was all lies.

F 911 was all lies.

Alright. As one who is going to see it; how so?

Let's see...

Invading Iraq--claiming that as a victory now is premature. History will decide; people are still fighting over there (there have been more US soldiers killed in Iraq this year so far, than in ALL of last year).

No Child Left Behind--great that he values education. Be even better if this were actually funded properly. As it stands now, little more than a hollow measure taken to be able to say "I value education."

The two demands--I keep up with the news fairly well, and I've not heard word one about either one. Guess he must've really demanded hard, huh? Good things to demand, though, I will say that.

I left Afghanistan for the end because I've got the most to say about that. Invading there, kicking out the Taliban, installing the Northern Alliance, I have to rank as one of George's biggest flubs. First off, Afghanistan didn't attack us any more than Iraq did. Yes, they were harboring Bin Laden; however, given the US's general disrespect for international law and other nations' sovereignty, I should think that going in quietly and just taking out the terrorists would have been the best plan, rather than bombing Afghanistan back to the stone age (which they were pretty much in to begin with), creating a huge ruckus, and letting Bin Laden escape with ease. Secondly, as I just mentioned, we failed in our PRIMARY objective, the capture of Bin Laden. Third, you will notice that Afghanistan rarely makes the news these days. Many people believe that that is because it's a decent place now. NOT TRUE. Many parts of Afghanistan are worse off now than when we started. The Taliban were (and still are; they aren't dead) extremists, but they were once part of the Northern Alliance, and broke off over a TERRITORY DISPUTE. The Northern Alliance is formed of many different factions, a great number of which are ruthless warlord thugs no better (and in some cases, worse) than the Taliban. The central government may be supposedly giving the people freedom, but they have little to no power. Afghani culture dictates that local authority holds power, and the people distrust centralized government. Many of the local warlord authorities have private armies and police forces utterly under their control, and the central government is largely powerless to stop it. Another of our grand effects, is that Afghanistan recently became the heroin producing capital of the world. Production of narcotics (opium in particular) went against the rules of the Taliban, but is allowed, encouraged, and even forced upon the people by many warlords.


As to republicans all being leaders and suchnot, that was a very nice blanket statement. A very nice, utterly false blanket statement. Some of the idiots I've met disprove your theory quite handily. There are fools on all sides; you would do good to remember that.

I would also appreciate it if conservatives would stop acting as though Clinton were the poster boy for liberals. I can't stand Bush, but I don't like a lot of what Clinton did either. In truth, if you look at him, he's not even all that liberal; he's a moderate.

I think I'm done now.

Fact is that Afghanistan was already the world heroin capital when it was under Taliban rule.
Fact is, that ever since we invaded, the Afghan production of heroin has dropped dramatically.
The rest of your statement is total bullshit.

Well let’s look at this. The first word is immediately so this means before we knew who had done it. Now knowing how much Iraq hated the US for putting this restrictions on him on what weapons he could have and how everyone knew if he could Saddam would have WMD by now it was a logical choice. You however bring this up in a way that makes it sound like Bush knew that Osama had done this and still wanted to go after Saddam first. Your source on the other hand, which doesn’t even mention Bush, implies otherwise. The Internet is a great place. Where else could I meet someone who would do anything to show Bush as evil and or an idiot as badly as you?

Have you read "Against All Enemies"? Again, by a man who formerly worked closely under Bush. It describes exchanges along the lines of, (this is as closely as I can remember right now)
"Well, sir, here is what we know so far..."
"What about Saddam?"
"Sir, all evidence suggests Saddam wasn't involved, it was Al Qaeda..."
"Get me anything on Saddam. Find something. Go after Saddam."
"..yes, sir..."

This sort of thing was happening on Sept. 12. Bush has been fixated on Saddam for a long time, well before Sept. 11. The whole WMD, terrorism, major threat issue was, in my opinion, an excuse to finish daddy's fight. (particularly as, between Sept 11 and the invasion of Iraq, no less than 26 reasons were given by the administration for invasion, each one presented as "The Reason." A thesis paper was done on it, I'll find it if anyone's interested.)

Fact is that Afghanistan was already the world heroin capital when it was under Taliban rule.
Fact is, that ever since we invaded, the Afghan production of heroin has dropped dramatically.
The rest of your statement is total bullshit.

I'm willing to back up my claims if you're willing to back up yours.

Alright. As one who is going to see it; how so?

You haven't seen it yet?

People these days don't vote for their guy, they vote against the other guy. This way idiots like Bush and Kerry can stand for election on the grounds that they aren't Kerry and Bush, respectively. Things are becoming increasingly partisan and militant and the govt has also whipped up the public into believing America is under siege and this is being translated into xenophobia masquerading as patriotism (true american patriots love liberty above all else). The result is very reminiscent of pre-Nazi Germany and if there were to be a depression now America will descend into democratic totalitarianism (if it isn't there already). Hmm. That has nothing to do with what I was going to say which is that Moore is an asshat.

yes, michael moore might be an asshat. he might be a tad too liberal and a tad too sensationalistic. his movies are a tad too biased to the point of skewing facts to make a point.

i will give him this though - in "bowling for columbine," i believe he's dead on when he describes the atmosphere of the US as one of media-enhanced fear. we're all so scared shitless that we're constantly under attack, we don't know what to do with ourselves. this is why the bush campaign is wrapping themselves in 9/11 all week.

The whole WMD, terrorism, major threat issue was, in my opinion, an excuse to finish daddy's fight. (particularly as, between Sept 11 and the invasion of Iraq, no less than 26 reasons were given by the administration for invasion, each one presented as "The Reason." A thesis paper was done on it, I'll find it if anyone's interested.)

I would be interested if it's not too much of a bother. Just drop me a mail at East Canuck on the nation states site.

While Bush may have some good ideas, he's not implementing them in effective ways, and he's not changing his methods. That's why I want him out of the White House. That, and the multitudes of bad ideas he also has.

which is why I bash Clinton too--Im not a blind party animal the way herd thinking republicans are

No. It would be the dems that are herd animals. All they do is follow.
Every Republican is a leader. Republicans are individualists, they make their own decisions.
Republicans believe people are individual humans. To democrats, people are nothing more than numbers and statistics.
Wow, you guys are both spewing lines from the political parties, media and the likes of Michael Moore and Ann Coulter. MKULTRA, you say that Republicans are sheep who go along with every party line; like Michael Moore, do you also think that they are all "evil"?

Whittier, do you honestly believe that all Democrats are weak, non-leaders and that all Republicans are heroes? About your last point, I have a newsflash for you. All governments view humans as statistics that make money or lose it. Reagan cut many disabled people off welfare. So did Clinton. The Reps and Dems are not as different as you think.

In conclusion, the Reps and Dems suck, and so does Arnie.

This sort of thing was happening on Sept. 12. Bush has been fixated on Saddam for a long time, well before Sept. 11. The whole WMD, terrorism, major threat issue was, in my opinion, an excuse to finish daddy's fight. (particularly as, between Sept 11 and the invasion of Iraq, no less than 26 reasons were given by the administration for invasion, each one presented as "The Reason." A thesis paper was done on it, I'll find it if anyone's interested.)
I would be interested in that thesis. I agree that the Bush administration was always obsessed with Iraq, but I think it was more due to the influence of the Project for a New American Century, of which Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Cheney are leaders. George Bush Snr has remained publicly silent about the war in Iraq. It doesn't look like he's enthusiastic about it. I even heard that Bush Snr disapproves of the war. I can't source that though, so it might be BS.

You haven't seen it yet?

Nope. New house in a new neighborhood with limited baby sitters at the moment. The last theater movie was the The Village and before that the Return of the King......

Have you read "Against All Enemies"? Again, by a man who formerly worked closely under Bush. It describes exchanges along the lines of, (this is as closely as I can remember right now)
"Well, sir, here is what we know so far..."
"What about Saddam?"
"Sir, all evidence suggests Saddam wasn't involved, it was Al Qaeda..."
"Get me anything on Saddam. Find something. Go after Saddam."
"..yes, sir..."



I noticed you didn’t mention the name of the man who wrote that book. Richard Clarke did, and well this was the book where he came and basically said Bush is an a**hat. 9/11 might have happened on my watch, but only because Bush wanted me looking into Iraq constantly. Most of what he said on that book has been proven to be shaky at best.


MKULtra and The Red Arrow are the same people. (TRA was deleted for spamming I think)

Really, well that explains a lot. (I should know better than leaving for about 4 months and expect to know what the heck is going on)

F 911 was all lies.
Well I saw Fahrenheit 911 and it is not all lies. The most amazing part of the film occurs when Bush is sitting in that classroom and is aware that the US is being attacked and yet he shows almost no emotion, calmly finishes the session and takes time to talk to the kids. Clearly Bush is NOT a man of action. It gets one speculating that he knew that those attacks were going to take place and he needed a place for an alibi, or that he just did not know what to do?

Either way, he was certainly devoid of emotion and I was stunned. Most of the people in the audience were shaking their heads in utter disbelief.

I don't know whether you saw the film or not, but to suggest it is "all lies", is complete dishonesty on your part.

Fact is that Afghanistan was already the world heroin capital when it was under Taliban rule.
Fact is, that ever since we invaded, the Afghan production of heroin has dropped dramatically.
The rest of your statement is total bullshit.
Can you show us the facts please?

I'm willing to back up my claims if you're willing to back up yours.
We shall await the Whittier's definitive proof?

I noticed you didn’t mention the name of the man who wrote that book. Richard Clarke did, and well this was the book where he came and basically said Bush is an a**hat. 9/11 might have happened on my watch, but only because Bush wanted me looking into Iraq constantly. Most of what he said on that book has been proven to be shaky at best.

Thank you, I couldn't remember the name (don't have a copy of my own, only read out of a friend's). And while some of what he says may be shaky (hell, most of it may be, I don't know), what I was referencing was a direct conversation between Bush and Clark; I think he probably got that pretty right.

As for the essay, since people have been interested, I'll just post the link here:
http://www.pol.uiuc.edu/news/largio.htm
This has links to the abstract/table of contents, the executive summary, and the thesis itself. Be notified, all three are PDF's. And it looks like I was a bit wrong; there were 27 reasons. Have fun!

He stands against affirmative action, if reluctantly.

And yes, I was hard-pressed to come up with one. The rest have been pretty awful.
you may have isolated the one very rare case where Bush may actually be right on something--congratulations

Well let’s look at this. The first word is immediately so this means before we knew who had done it. Now knowing how much Iraq hated the US for putting this restrictions on him on what weapons he could have and how everyone knew if he could Saddam would have WMD by now it was a logical choice. You however bring this up in a way that makes it sound like Bush knew that Osama had done this and still wanted to go after Saddam first. Your source on the other hand, which doesn’t even mention Bush, implies otherwise. The Internet is a great place. Where else could I meet someone who would do anything to show Bush as evil and or an idiot as badly as you?
But everyone knows Bush had plans to invade Iraq even BEFORE he stole the Presidency-Bush NEEDED a 911 and Osama provided it for him

Judging by your join date and post count, I'm guessing that you don't know yet that responding to MKUltra isn't worth your time.
LOL

People these days don't vote for their guy, they vote against the other guy. This way idiots like Bush and Kerry can stand for election on the grounds that they aren't Kerry and Bush, respectively. Things are becoming increasingly partisan and militant and the govt has also whipped up the public into believing America is under siege and this is being translated into xenophobia masquerading as patriotism (true american patriots love liberty above all else). The result is very reminiscent of pre-Nazi Germany and if there were to be a depression now America will descend into democratic totalitarianism (if it isn't there already). Hmm. That has nothing to do with what I was going to say which is that Moore is an asshat.
you talk about america falling into facism yet you criticize someone whose speakin truth to power and taken on the corporate media concolidation... thats a contradiction

Wow, you guys are both spewing lines from the political parties, media and the likes of Michael Moore and Ann Coulter. MKULTRA, you say that Republicans are sheep who go along with every party line; like Michael Moore, do you also think that they are all "evil"?

Whittier, do you honestly believe that all Democrats are weak, non-leaders and that all Republicans are heroes? About your last point, I have a newsflash for you. All governments view humans as statistics that make money or lose it. Reagan cut many disabled people off welfare. So did Clinton. The Reps and Dems are not as different as you think.

In conclusion, the Reps and Dems suck, and so does Arnie.
I agree they both suck but reps suck more and yes-theyre agenda is transparently evil and anti human

I noticed you didn’t mention the name of the man who wrote that book. Richard Clarke did, and well this was the book where he came and basically said Bush is an a**hat. 9/11 might have happened on my watch, but only because Bush wanted me looking into Iraq constantly. Most of what he said on that book has been proven to be shaky at best.



Really, well that explains a lot. (I should know better than leaving for about 4 months and expect to know what the heck is going on)
nothing in his book has been proved to be shaky at best-rightwing character assassination against Bush critics is not a legitamate form of disproving anything