NationStates Jolt Archive

The fact is that Republicans are the party of diversity and inclusion.
The fact is that there are more women in the Bush administration than any prior administration. The fact is that Bush is supporting more Black congressional candidates than his opponent, John Kerry.
Fact is the US economy grew by 2.8% in July alone due to Bush's economic policies. That's up from the last 5 months of the Clinton administration when the economy starting its nosedive.
There are many democrats and other non republicans speaking at the GOP convention. At the Democrat convention you had to be upper class card holding democrat. The GOP welcomes everyone of all backgrounds.
Fact is, Kerry and the protestors think Osama is a good guy and Bush and the Republicans think Osama is a bad guy.
Kerry thinks we should follow Spain's example and run away with our tail between our legs as Spain did and the French and Italians are apparently going to do.
Bush thinks we should stand and fight. Bush thinks we should defend the values on which our nation is founded and not give into bloodthirsty tyrants.
Kerry says we should let Osama detonate a nuke inside our nation before we wage war on them. Bush says get them before they get us.
Kerry attacks Bush for serving in Vietnam. Fact is, while Kerry was in Vietnam, Kerry also eagerly committed war crimes, genocide and other atrocities against innocent vietnamese women and children in a war that was started and supported by democrats. Kennedy started Vietnam and Kennedy was a dem.
Bush believes in the right to life. Kerry believes women have the right to kill a child up to year after birth.
Bush believes that all Americans were entitled to a tax cut. Kerry believes only the select few, namely his closest buddies, are entitled to tax cuts.
Bush supported and passed prescription drug coverage for seniors. Kerry thinks Seniors should be left out in the cold to fend for themselves.
Kerry thinks the people are incapable of thinking for themselves. He believes the American people are incapable of self government.
Bush thinks the American people are the backbone of America. Unlike Kerry, Bush respects people who don't agree with him.
Kerry wants to give big oil contracts, in Iraq, to the French and Germans.
Bush told France and Germany to get lost cause they supported a bloodthirsty dictator who tortured and gassed millions of innocent women and children.
The crucial difference between Kerry and Bush is this:
Kerry believes in Europe and its socialist governments.
Bush believes in America and in the American people.
And that is why Bush will be reelected in America.
There comes a point when you must stand straight and tall and make it clear you mean every word you say. Even since 911, Kerry has flipped flopped often and has denounced the war on terror. Bush says what he's going to do and he does it. He's not fighting the terror just cause he wants to. He's fighting cause he has to.
Under the dems. control of the white house, any congregation who had a pastor that said anything negative about Clinton had their church property seized by the government. Under Bush, president bashing is protected and the government is not allowed to seize your property for it.
Under Clinton, people who protested the Presidents pet projects were physically assualted by the police acting under federal orders.
Under Bush, protestors don't have to worry about such gestapo tactics. Bush supports free speech and Bush supports and respects the right to peaceful assembly.
A vote for Kerry is a vote to adopt spanish cowardice in our internal and external affairs.
A vote for Bush is a vote to oppose terrorism, to defend the values on which the US is based, to defend the American way of life, and to keep the world safe for democracy.

To vote for Bush is to elect a idiotic man who can't pronounce nuclear.
To vote for Kerry is to have an egotistical liar in the office.

Either way, we're @#$@%!

words and phrases i would be happy to never hear again for as long as i live:

-flip-flop
-"American values"
-liberal, particularly when used as an insult, or in the phrase "liberal agenda"
-flip-flop
-"our nation"
-"diversity," particularly when used as an example of virtue via letting women folk or them negros try their hand at white man's work
-flip-flop
-terrorist (along with "terror," this word has lost all meaning through over use and incorrect application)
-flip-flop
-child/children, when used as an appeal (i.e.: "think of the children," "murdering children," "unborn children," etc.)
-flip-flop

words and phrases i would be happy to never hear again for as long as i live:

-flip-flop
-"American values"
-liberal, particularly when used as an insult, or in the phrase "liberal agenda"
-flip-flop
-"our nation"
-"diversity," particularly when used as an example of virtue via letting women folk or them negros try their hand at white man's work
-flip-flop
-terrorist (along with "terror," this word has lost all meaning through over use and incorrect application)
-flip-flop
-child/children, when used as an appeal (i.e.: "think of the children," "murdering children," "unborn children," etc.)
-flip-flopVery true. I watched some of the RNC, (before I got sent out of the room for yelling at the dickhead Republicans too much), and not one guy could get up there without saying "values"

Mmmmmmmmmmmkay...

I'm guessing that this South Pacific guy is some kind of joke or parody.

Fact is, Kerry and the protestors think Osama is a good guy and Bush and the Republicans think Osama is a bad guy.
Kerry thinks we should follow Spain's example and run away with our tail between our legs as Spain did and the French and Italians are apparently going to do.
Kerry says we should let Osama detonate a nuke inside our nation before we wage war on them. Bush says get them before they get us.
Kerry attacks Bush for serving in Vietnam. Fact is, while Kerry was in Vietnam, Kerry also eagerly committed war crimes, genocide and other atrocities against innocent vietnamese women and children in a war that was started and supported by democrats. Kennedy started Vietnam and Kennedy was a dem.
Bush believes in the right to life. Kerry believes women have the right to kill a child up to year after birth.
Bush believes that all Americans were entitled to a tax cut. Kerry believes only the select few, namely his closest buddies, are entitled to tax cuts.
Bush supported and passed prescription drug coverage for seniors. Kerry thinks Seniors should be left out in the cold to fend for themselves.
Kerry thinks the people are incapable of thinking for themselves. He believes the American people are incapable of self government.
Bush thinks the American people are the backbone of America. Unlike Kerry, Bush respects people who don't agree with him. These are a few of the statements which are direct lies. All the others are BS too, but these are a few that are flatly untrue.

These are a few of the statements which are direct lies. All the others are BS too, but these are a few that are flatly untrue.
this one is my favorite:
"Kerry believes women have the right to kill a child up to year after birth."

if only! if there was a candidate willing to stand up and advocate that, he would get my vote in a heartbeat! (heartbeat...abortion...there's some joke to be had there, but i don't have the energy to put it together.)

Ha. Ha. Ha.

It's a bullshitter, that's all there is to it. Notice how he didn't stay around for us evil liberals to come after him?

Hundreds of thousands of people protesting the RNC. Hells yeah.

this one is my favorite:
"Kerry believes women have the right to kill a child up to year after birth."

if only! if there was a candidate willing to stand up and advocate that, he would get my vote in a heartbeat! (heartbeat...abortion...there's some joke to be had there, but i don't have the energy to put it together.)

I'm sure there are many frustrated parents out there who would also support such legislation... ;)

if only! if there was a candidate willing to stand up and advocate that, he would get my vote in a heartbeat! (heartbeat...abortion...there's some joke to be had there, but i don't have the energy to put it together.)

I sincerely hope you're joking.

Bush and Kerry are both "flip-floppers" (I don't see what's wrong with changing your mind) and overall are pretty poor candidates that would still screw us over no matter which one was elected.

I sincerely hope you're joking.
oh come on. i know we're not supposed to say it, but have you ever spent actual time around small children? they're loud, sticky, demanding...

you of all people, who is so opposed to oppression, can't really be on the side of this legion of mini capitalist pigs, who enslave other humans to the daily drudgery of wiping bottoms, patting out burps, and cleaning away spit-up, without so much as a thank you for years! when was the last time you saw one of these little dictators working for the common good, anyway? they're just leeches, expecting the world to let them slide just because they were born privaledged with cuteness.

bundles of joy my ass. if they knew we could still abort them at will then they'd snap into line, dagnabbit!

oh come on. i know we're not supposed to say it, but have you ever spent actual time around small children? they're loud, sticky, demanding...

you of all people, who is so opposed to oppression, can't really be on the side of this legion of mini capitalist pigs, who enslave other humans to the daily drudgery of wiping bottoms, patting out burps, and cleaning away spit-up, without so much as a thank you for years! when was the last time you saw one of these little dictators working for the common good, anyway? they're just leeches, expecting the world to let them slide just because they were born privaledged with cuteness.

bundles of joy my ass. if they knew we could still abort them at will then they'd snap into line, dagnabbit!
That's so wrong, yet so hilarious at the same time.

The fact is that Republicans are the party of diversity and inclusion.

[Snip]

A vote for Bush is a vote to oppose terrorism, to defend the values on which the US is based, to defend the American way of life, and to keep the world safe for democracy.

So, have we been watching many bush commercials, then?

Fact is the US economy grew by 2.8% in July alone due to Bush's economic policies. That's up from the last 5 months of the Clinton administration when the economy starting its nosedive.

I really don't understand what that means at all, you can't say the economy grew by 2.8 percent. The economy is very metaphorical, you have average wages, minimum wage, unemployment, GNP, PCI, Per Capita Profit. As you can't really assign a percentage importance value to any of these, you can numerically measure the economy now as to "when the economy starting its nosedive". You Ass.

This is just a note, but the general retardation of this forum has pushed me over the edge, and I'm gonna get really sweary from this point on.


Vote Cthulu 2004. You will Be Eaten Last

oh come on. i know we're not supposed to say it, but have you ever spent actual time around small children? they're loud, sticky, demanding...

you of all people, who is so opposed to oppression, can't really be on the side of this legion of mini capitalist pigs, who enslave other humans to the daily drudgery of wiping bottoms, patting out burps, and cleaning away spit-up, without so much as a thank you for years! when was the last time you saw one of these little dictators working for the common good, anyway? they're just leeches, expecting the world to let them slide just because they were born privaledged with cuteness.

bundles of joy my ass. if they knew we could still abort them at will then they'd snap into line, dagnabbit!
how horrifying that you would actually hold that view. Reminds me of the nazis.

how horrifying that you would actually hold that view. Reminds me of the nazis.

Are you Dense or Ironic? I'm really curious.

Are you Dense or Ironic? I'm really curious.
me too. i'm also a little frightened, if the answer is "dense." i mean, that's some serious density, and the gravitational allignment of the universe could be in danger if it is not dealt with.

Wow this guy really needs help.
Snice when does kerry suppout killing small children?

"The fact is that Republicans are the party of diversity and inclusion." - nope
"The fact is that there are more women in the Bush administration than any prior administration." - not true
"The fact is that Bush is supporting more Black congressional candidates than his opponent, John Kerry." - also not true
"Fact is the US economy grew by 2.8% in July alone due to Bush's economic policies. That's up from the last 5 months of the Clinton administration when the economy starting its nosedive." - prove it. and check your sources
"There are many democrats and other non republicans speaking at the GOP convention. At the Democrat convention you had to be upper class card holding democrat. The GOP welcomes everyone of all backgrounds." - Democrats that are speaking out against you, Hillary Clinton the most notable. And the Democratic convention welcomed representatives from around the country, of all nationalities and upbringings
"Fact is, Kerry and the protestors think Osama is a good guy and Bush and the Republicans think Osama is a bad guy." - Absolutely not true. What, you think we're stupid?
"Kerry thinks we should follow Spain's example and run away with our tail between our legs as Spain did and the French and Italians are apparently going to do." - Again, not true. He believes in a fair war, one where America doesn't take all the hits, and America doesn't work to create an American colony, but another, independent country.
"Bush thinks we should stand and fight. Bush thinks we should defend the values on which our nation is founded and not give into bloodthirsty tyrants." - Extortion of the facts, and Bush is just a stubborn dumbass who won't admit he's wrong
"Kerry says we should let Osama detonate a nuke inside our nation before we wage war on them." - Absolute BS. And none of us contested that Afghanistan was a righteous war. It's Iraq, the one proven to be on false grounds, that we have always contested.
"Bush says get them before they get us." - which is in no way keeping with America's duty to be a peacekeeper and an independent 3rd party working to resolve conflicts.
"Kerry attacks Bush for serving in Vietnam." - Actually, he doesn't attack Bush, but Bush didn't serve in Vietnam. He avoided his service by skipping out on Texas Air National Guard duty.
"Fact is, while Kerry was in Vietnam, Kerry also eagerly committed war crimes, genocide and other atrocities against innocent vietnamese women and children in a war that was started and supported by democrats. Kennedy started Vietnam and Kennedy was a dem." Not true. Again, check your sources
"Bush believes in the right to life. Kerry believes women have the right to kill a child up to year after birth." Absolutely not. Kerry believes in women's rights, unlike Bush, and believes that the decision should be made by the individual, not the government. And these are only early-pregnancy abortions. Killing a child after birth, or close to birth, is murder. Check your sources.
"Bush believes that all Americans were entitled to a tax cut. Kerry believes only the select few, namely his closest buddies, are entitled to tax cuts." - Now where did you get this? Bush pushed tax cuts that primarily benefited the rich, and many of the lower class didn't get a tax cut at all. If you didn't notice, Kerry supports rolling back the tax cuts to the wealthy.
"Bush supported and passed prescription drug coverage for seniors. Kerry thinks Seniors should be left out in the cold to fend for themselves." Not true. Check your sources
"Kerry thinks the people are incapable of thinking for themselves. He believes the American people are incapable of self government." Absolute BS. Check your sources.
"Bush thinks the American people are the backbone of America. Unlike Kerry, Bush respects people who don't agree with him." - Not true. Bush doesn't respect people who don't agree with him. Kerry is willing to listen.
"Kerry wants to give big oil contracts, in Iraq, to the French and Germans.
Bush told France and Germany to get lost cause they supported a bloodthirsty dictator who tortured and gassed millions of innocent women and children." Bush started the Iraq war because he wanted the oil, and wouldn't allow fair trading with the world because he's greedy. Nobody supported Saddam Hussein. You GOPs mistake not supporting a pre-emptive strike for supporting a dictator. Not true.
"The crucial difference between Kerry and Bush is this:
Kerry believes in Europe and its socialist governments." Nope.
"Bush believes in America and in the American people." - Bush believes in the rich and oil. Nothing more
"And that is why Bush will be reelected in America.
There comes a point when you must stand straight and tall and make it clear you mean every word you say. Even since 911, Kerry has flipped flopped often and has denounced the war on terror." - flip-flop. If you had an ounce of brain matter, you'd think to actually look at the two very different versions of each bill that Kerry supposedly flip-flopped on. You'd then see that the one that Kerry voted against had many provisions in there for corporations, reducing environmental laws, etc. I would know...I've looked through several of the bills.
"Bush says what he's going to do and he does it. He's not fighting the terror just cause he wants to. He's fighting cause he has to." - Correction: fighting supposed "terrorism", not terror. Terror is just fear, terrorism is the malicious mass-producing of fear. And Bush wants to bomb the Middle East so he can steal their oil, while Kerry is focused on protecting America while strengthening our ties around the world. Bush has made America hated around the world.
"Under the dems. control of the white house, any congregation who had a pastor that said anything negative about Clinton had their church property seized by the government." - No, that would be after Bush came into office, under the Patriot Act. Check your sources. Nothing of the sort happened during the Clinton Administration
"Under Bush, president bashing is protected and the government is not allowed to seize your property for it." - Read my above statement
"Under Clinton, people who protested the Presidents pet projects were physically assualted by the police acting under federal orders." - Check your sources. Once again, not true.
"Under Bush, protestors don't have to worry about such gestapo tactics. Bush supports free speech and Bush supports and respects the right to peaceful assembly." - BS. Bush's Administration created the Patriot Act. Enough said
"A vote for Kerry is a vote to adopt spanish cowardice in our internal and external affairs." - Nope. Spanish cowardice? How about working with the world, improving the economy, and making America safe.
"A vote for Bush is a vote to oppose terrorism, to defend the values on which the US is based, to defend the American way of life, and to keep the world safe for democracy." - Not a chance. A vote for Bush is a vote for destruction of the world that we live in, inviting terror by making America hated around the world, to expand the American Empire one country at a time, and to restrict the majority of money and power to the wealthy.


Next time, before blindly stating a bunch of untruths, make sure you know what you're talking about, kid. Get out of your mother's basement, and take a look at the real world, the one all around you.

Next time, before blindly stating a bunch of untruths, make sure you know what you're talking about, kid. Get out of your mother's basement, and take a look at the real world, the one all around you.
Now, I'm not saying what he said is right, but simply going "nope not true" isn't really better than what he did.

This is my first, and possibly my only post, so here it goes. Everything this guy said was`either a lie or based on incomplete facts. Two in paticular stood out to me.


"Fact is, while Kerry was in Vietnam, Kerry also eagerly committed war crimes, genocide and other atrocities against innocent vietnamese women and children in a war that was started and supported by democrats."

If you got this from those swift boat veterans, than I suggest you find the entire speech, he was refering to what others have told him, not what he had done or seen first hand. You can't believe the swift boat guys, at least one of them has admitted he was just saying what he was told to say.


"Under Bush, protestors don't have to worry about such gestapo tactics. Bush supports free speech and Bush supports and respects the right to peaceful assembly."

As said before, the patriot act makes freedom of speech harder and there are also the "free speech zones" which are in out of the way areas where they won't have an effect.

As for everything else, check more than one source before deciding something is true, and don't use fox news as your primary news source.

Vote Cthulu 2004. You will Be Eaten Last
Absolutely. Why settle for the lesser of two evils?

me too. i'm also a little frightened, if the answer is "dense." i mean, that's some serious density, and the gravitational allignment of the universe could be in danger if it is not dealt with.I think our friend is a perfect example of what Orwell refered to as the "inevitable decline of the ruling class.

Now, I'm not saying what he said is right, but simply going "nope not true" isn't really better than what he did.It's up to someone making assertions to prove them, not the other way round. Conclusively disprove that I've got Bin Laden hiding in my garden shed.










Note to stupid MI6 agents. It's a fucking joke. Get back to slamming each other's dicks in car doors

Now, I'm not saying what he said is right, but simply going "nope not true" isn't really better than what he did.

Damn, you beat me to that one.

But, thank you! It needed to be pointed out.

It's up to someone making assertions to prove them, not the other way round. Conclusively disprove that I've got Bin Laden hiding in my garden shed.

Its on both people, or else neither can or should be believed. Its easy to conclusively disprove something - for example, if I said "Bush fought in Vietnam while Kerry went AWOL in the National Guard".

"Fact is, while Kerry was in Vietnam, Kerry also eagerly committed war crimes, genocide and other atrocities against innocent vietnamese women and children in a war that was started and supported by democrats."

Fact is, the records show that democratic president John Kennedy started Vietnam.
Fact is that both at an anti war rally and in hearings before Congress, Kerry admitted to these atrocities with his own lips.

Its on both people, or else neither can or should be believed. Its easy to conclusively disprove something - for example, if I said "Bush fought in Vietnam while Kerry went AWOL in the National Guard".But if I say "Bush secretly participates in satanic rituals once a year" then it's very hard for you to prove he doesn't. So surely then the burden of proof lies on me, as I've claimed it in the first place, rather then you?

"Under the dems. control of the white house, any congregation who had a pastor that said anything negative about Clinton had their church property seized by the government." - No,

The Pastor of a church in Illinoise spoke out against Clinton's policies in his sermons. A month later, the IRS and the ATF seized the church and the congregations other property at gun point. On the charge that the Pastor was saying bad things about Clinton. Happened in 1997.

"Fact is the US economy grew by 2.8% in July alone due to Bush's economic policies. That's up from the last 5 months of the Clinton administration when the economy starting its nosedive." - prove it.

The congressional budget office, cnn, foxnews, msnbc, new york times, los angeles times, office of management and budget. shall I go on?

But if I say "Bush secretly participates in satanic rituals once a year" then it's very hard for you to prove he doesn't. So surely then the burden of proof lies on me, as I've claimed it in the first place, rather then you?
Well, sort of. Although in logic you have things like fallacies of ignorance, on the internet its more practical, and it would be acceptable disproof, at least in my opinion, to simply show a lack of credible proof from the accusation.

The fact is that South Pacific is either the biggest idiot in the history of Western civilization or currently under the influence of something I would love to have a couple of bowls of right now.

"Under Clinton, people who protested the Presidents pet projects were physically assualted by the police acting under federal orders." - Check your sources. Once again, not true.


Fact is that the WTO and other globalization efforts were pet projects of Clinton. When people protested them, in Seattle for example, they were brutally beaten by both local and federal police under reign of Bill Clinton.

Well, sort of. Although in logic you have things like fallacies of ignorance, on the internet its more practical, and it would be acceptable disproof, at least in my opinion, to simply show a lack of credible proof from the accusation.

So with comments like this "Fact is, Kerry and the protestors think Osama is a good guy and Bush and the Republicans think Osama is a bad guy." merely pointing to the fact that the original poster has no substantiating evidence would be enough.

(I'm not getting into the question of Kerry's war record. Not being American I don't know enough about the subject, and not being any great fan of Kerry or Bush I don't really care. VOTE NADER:D

Fact is, the records show that democratic president John Kerry started Vietnam.

So a president who hasn't been elected yet started a war that happened 40 years ago. Man, I've just gotta have what you're smoking!

"Under Bush, protestors don't have to worry about such gestapo tactics. Bush supports free speech and Bush supports and respects the right to peaceful assembly." - BS. Bush's Administration created the Patriot Act. Enough said


Fact is:
Under Bill Clinton, the religious freedom rights of the defenseless people at waco were violated when the Clinton administration ordered the ATF to attack with armed force and set fire to their building, whereby killing everyone inside.

Fact is: The Clinton administration busted in to a florida family's home at gun point, beat every single family member with the butts of their rifles, including a young pregnant woman, and abducted a poor defenseless young child.

Fact is: See church case posted earlier.


Fact is: 24 Arnold Gonzalez of Detroit was arrested and spent 10 days jail for saying something negative about Clinton.

Fact is: 56 year old Lydia Johnson, a former employee at the Federal Building in downtown Los Angeles, was fired for making a negative comment about how Clinton was running the nation.

So with comments like this "Fact is, Kerry and the protestors think Osama is a good guy and Bush and the Republicans think Osama is a bad guy." merely pointing to the fact that the original poster has no substantiating evidence would be enough.

(I'm not getting into the question of Kerry's war record. Not being American I don't know enough about the subject, and not being any great fan of Kerry or Bush I don't really care. VOTE NADER:D
Yes, because it is a reason for rejecting the statement. "No, not true" provides no reason at all and is as unsubstantiated as the original claim.

I see one person starting this thread with misinformation, incomplete facts, and sometimes outright lies.

Then i see people assaulting him with the same misinformation, incomplete facts, and outright lies, just based on Democratic dogma rather than Republican dogma. Im going to revise some UDOEness. Note that on most of his points, he did not give much reason for why he felt that way.


"The fact is that Republicans are the party of diversity and inclusion." - nope Actually yes, the Democrats tend to favor labor groups which reflexivly slam immigrants like me for "stealing their jobs." This is one reason i prefer Bush.
"The fact is that there are more women in the Bush administration than any prior administration." - not true Cant show this is true or untrue, can you?
"The fact is that Bush is supporting more Black congressional candidates than his opponent, John Kerry." - also not true
"Fact is the US economy grew by 2.8% in July alone due to Bush's economic policies. That's up from the last 5 months of the Clinton administration when the economy starting its nosedive." - prove it. and check your sources Hes probably right, since there was the IT industry bubble burst just before Clinton left office. However, i would like to see what that 2.8% was referring to. GDP, job growth, profits, stock prices?
"There are many democrats and other non republicans speaking at the GOP convention. At the Democrat convention you had to be upper class card holding democrat. The GOP welcomes everyone of all backgrounds." - Democrats that are speaking out against you, Hillary Clinton the most notable. And the Democratic convention welcomed representatives from around the country, of all nationalities and upbringings He wasnt referring to the Democrats marching out in the streets. The Republicans are welcoming people from around the country, of all nationalities and upbringings. There are several democrats (at least two of them in high ranking positions, i think one was a senator) who were invited to speak out against the democratic party. Thats what he was referring to.
"Fact is, Kerry and the protestors think Osama is a good guy and Bush and the Republicans think Osama is a bad guy." - Absolutely not true. What, you think we're stupid? I would rather say thats hes stupid.
"Kerry thinks we should follow Spain's example and run away with our tail between our legs as Spain did and the French and Italians are apparently going to do." - Again, not true. He believes in a fair war, one where America doesn't take all the hits, and America doesn't work to create an American colony, but another, independent country. You say that as if Bush doesnt believe in the same goal. Bush just has a record of believing this while Kerry's history on this issue is fuzzy.
"Bush thinks we should stand and fight. Bush thinks we should defend the values on which our nation is founded and not give into bloodthirsty tyrants." - Extortion of the facts, and Bush is just a stubborn dumbass who won't admit he's wrong I find this funny since Bush very recently went over mistakes he made. Stubborness is good. We dont want the terrorists learning that they can make any demand they want and we will give in. Thats stupid and shortsighted and might end up jeopardizing America.
"Kerry says we should let Osama detonate a nuke inside our nation before we wage war on them." - Absolute BS. And none of us contested that Afghanistan was a righteous war. It's Iraq, the one proven to be on false grounds, that we have always contested. Actually Kerry did in fact allege something similar. Im not sure if he still maintains this position. Also, you are wrong, many democrats have claimed our attack on Afghanistan was unjust. Try to stay aware of your own base, please.
"Bush says get them before they get us." - which is in no way keeping with America's duty to be a peacekeeper and an independent 3rd party working to resolve conflicts. Show me a document telling us that we have that duty. Bush never directly stated us as an independant third party and as things currently stand we are arguabley peacekeeping by protecting stability of several new governments. Besides, the UN is not an independant 3rd party which functions as a peacekeeper working to resolve conflicts, rather as a way of defunct, powerless countries of gaining more say than they reasonabley should, and they do in fact have the aforementioned duty.
"Kerry attacks Bush for serving in Vietnam." - Actually, he doesn't attack Bush, but Bush didn't serve in Vietnam. He avoided his service by skipping out on Texas Air National Guard duty. Yeah, Kerry doesnt attack Bush for serving in Vietnam. It should be noted the ANG was one of the most likely groups to be called up en masse though.
"Fact is, while Kerry was in Vietnam, Kerry also eagerly committed war crimes, genocide and other atrocities against innocent vietnamese women and children in a war that was started and supported by democrats. Kennedy started Vietnam and Kennedy was a dem." Not true. Again, check your sources Yes, not true. Kennedy and perhaps Nixon can take some of the blame for Vietnam, although most of the weight should fall on the shoulders of the now defunct French Empire. Kerry wasnt one of the ones who instigated those war crimes. He should be proud of his service there as well as some of his postwar activism. But he should understand that its only natural that as a result other veterans will look upon him with disgust.
"Bush believes in the right to life. Kerry believes women have the right to kill a child up to year after birth." Absolutely not. Kerry believes in women's rights, unlike Bush, and believes that the decision should be made by the individual, not the government. And these are only early-pregnancy abortions. Killing a child after birth, or close to birth, is murder. Check your sources. Kerry's policy allows near birth abortions when the fetus is already concious. That isnt BS, but its morality is debatable. I have not heard that he allows post birth euthanization though and i seriously doubt that to be true. What actually worries me is the idea of abortion being used in all cases. Im an autistic and i can forsee parents "curing" autism by abortion combined by genetic screening. Bush's stance of only allowing abortion in situations where the mother's life is in jeapordy or when rape was involved is near perfect, thank you. I also like the idea of perhaps very early term abortions which can be administered as soon as pregnancy testing proves positive. I think i differ on this with Bush.
"Bush believes that all Americans were entitled to a tax cut. Kerry believes only the select few, namely his closest buddies, are entitled to tax cuts." - Now where did you get this? Bush pushed tax cuts that primarily benefited the rich, and many of the lower class didn't get a tax cut at all. If you didn't notice, Kerry supports rolling back the tax cuts to the wealthy. UDOE thats laughable. Under Bush, most lower class families now pay no federal taxes (although state taxes still stand.) The tax cut was for all but it wasnt ungraduated. What Kerry proposes is probably not too bad but i feel it to be quite unfair on the rich. Even if it does work the rich will just be more motivated go to tax shelters like Luxembourg when doing capital transactions, weakening the USA economy.
"Bush supported and passed prescription drug coverage for seniors. Kerry thinks Seniors should be left out in the cold to fend for themselves." Not true. Check your sources True, check your sources. Bush now has a medicare system that has reduced costs on the elderly by giving them special benefits. The main problem with it is the complexity and beauracracy involved. Kerry has a more global healthcare visions (blurrily defined and not overly clear other than spiting Bush's reforms) which some may view as neglecting the elderly, thats an opinion matter.
"Kerry thinks the people are incapable of thinking for themselves. He believes the American people are incapable of self government." Absolute BS. Check your sources. Its not bullshit. Its an opinion. Unless he meant Kerry literally thinks so.
"Bush thinks the American people are the backbone of America. Unlike Kerry, Bush respects people who don't agree with him." - Not true. Bush doesn't respect people who don't agree with him. Kerry is willing to listen. Kerry has been very weak about arguing against those who oppose him and has relied more on loyalty of his support base when it came to that. Its just politics as usual. In reality Kerry's campaign prefers to manage information and opinion largely to try and counter the GOP's recent digging into Kerry's congressional record. Kerry is on the defensive and needs to keep strong supporters who cannot be swayed by GOP findings. Bush was doing the same thing a while ago by making himself out to be a religious man to gain strong bases among the religious organizations and charities. He didnt really have a tool to appeal to all at once like Kerry does, since Republicans arent so strongly activistic that a "Kerryhass" platform like the "Bushhass" currently being used by Kerry and pioneered by Dean wont work.
"Kerry wants to give big oil contracts, in Iraq, to the French and Germans.
Bush told France and Germany to get lost cause they supported a bloodthirsty dictator who tortured and gassed millions of innocent women and children." Bush started the Iraq war because he wanted the oil, and wouldn't allow fair trading with the world because he's greedy. Nobody supported Saddam Hussein. You GOPs mistake not supporting a pre-emptive strike for supporting a dictator. Not true. France DID have trade deals with Iraq. For a while this included nuclear materials. France opposed the Iraq intervention to protect its interests there, existing with the Blessing of the Baathist government and active despite the UN sanctions. Same goes for Russia. The distribution of weapons in Iraq was dominantly of USSR origin, with a not insignificant amount coming from France (about 20%.) No nation that i know of other than the USSR (and Russia) and France made more than a 10% contribution of total weapons at Iraq's disposal. Germany's stance seems genuine and i respect their opposition to the Iraq war. As for oil, Bush openly stated that the USA was not using the money gained from it. It went to groups operating in Iraq (and now the government there) for the purpose of assisting reconstruction. The intelligence agencies of almost every industrial nation at the time the war started agreed that Saddam had not destroyed his weapons stockpile. Its possible that he did not in fact destroy it until the very last minute, if he did at all. Although no WMD were found that is one of a myriad of more military reasons Clinton and Bush W had been working towards such a confrontation.
"The crucial difference between Kerry and Bush is this:
Kerry believes in Europe and its socialist governments." Nope. Yep. Not to the same extent the Europeans do but he is certainly more Eurocentric and left leaning than Bush is. Kerry has been described by his own party as a far leftist in forms of both praise and critism. If it wasnt for him constantly changing his stances i would assign him the label "socialist" or "laborist," but for now im not sure.
"Bush believes in America and in the American people." - Bush believes in the rich and oil. Nothing more Liberal bullshit in its basest form. I think both kerry and bush believe in the USA people and im fatally cynical in regards to politicians.
"And that is why Bush will be reelected in America.
There comes a point when you must stand straight and tall and make it clear you mean every word you say. Even since 911, Kerry has flipped flopped often and has denounced the war on terror." - flip-flop. If you had an ounce of brain matter, you'd think to actually look at the two very different versions of each bill that Kerry supposedly flip-flopped on. You'd then see that the one that Kerry voted against had many provisions in there for corporations, reducing environmental laws, etc. I would know...I've looked through several of the bills. Interesting. Is this BS or is this true? Im sure much of that was opinion based, sources so i can check?
"Bush says what he's going to do and he does it. He's not fighting the terror just cause he wants to. He's fighting cause he has to." - Correction: fighting supposed "terrorism", not terror. Terror is just fear, terrorism is the malicious mass-producing of fear. And Bush wants to bomb the Middle East so he can steal their oil, while Kerry is focused on protecting America while strengthening our ties around the world. Bush has made America hated around the world. America was always hated around the world ya fool. It didnt take Bush to do it, Bush is just a useful figure to blame for it. Kerry wont do any good since the people he wants to suck up to likely wont care unless they get some type of advantage out of it (i am of course, speaking of Europe,) and his plans are not diffrent from Bush's ones on protection of the nation (at least in the areas where he does have plans) or at least -- were not.
"Under the dems. control of the white house, any congregation who had a pastor that said anything negative about Clinton had their church property seized by the government." - No, that would be after Bush came into office, under the Patriot Act. Check your sources. Nothing of the sort happened during the Clinton Administration Actually, Clinton was guilty of numerous cover ups, more so to pacify the population into thinking there was peace when there was in fact numerous insurgencies and a growing covert war vs the US. Some of those did involve repression of expression. Bush is not guilty of the patriot act, that was a bipartisan movement, and its almost due to lose its effects. Not that the patriot act was uneeded, but it was a tad too much with too few provisions on what would happen if it was found to be abused. So far it has not really been abused and it has pretty much been used 100% fairly on the levels of government Bush is involved in.
"Under Bush, president bashing is protected and the government is not allowed to seize your property for it." - Read my above statement Under Clinton it was forbidden and done on the occasion with the best of intentions. Under Bush its more permissible but rarely done.
"Under Clinton, people who protested the Presidents pet projects were physically assualted by the police acting under federal orders." - Check your sources. Once again, not true. True. Its true under Bush too. Its called the Food and Drug Administration. Someone needs to stop their rampage of enforcing special corporate interests.
"Under Bush, protestors don't have to worry about such gestapo tactics. Bush supports free speech and Bush supports and respects the right to peaceful assembly." - BS. Bush's Administration created the Patriot Act. Enough said Blaiming the patriot act on Bush again are you? WTO riots (and the Mardi Gras riots that followed shortly afterwards) left a bad taste in my mouth. I would love it if Bush could pass something allowing us to gun down activists who vandalize our streets. Seattle residents like me werent pleased. But the police still used restraint and tried their best to keep things peaceful, as they are doing in new york now. Do you know police are under state jurisdiction, not federal? The local governments of both washington and new york are very much democratic IIRC. This is funny since WA has some of the worst inequality in the tax system that heavily favors the rich
"A vote for Kerry is a vote to adopt spanish cowardice in our internal and external affairs." - Nope. Spanish cowardice? How about working with the world, improving the economy, and making America safe. Kerry's proposed rollbacks of some of Bush's policies would slow USA growth and if we were to cave in to foreign demands we will lose more jobs to other nations as well as expose struggling US companies to myriads of frivolous suits in socialist courts. I feel that because of this, kerry wont live up to his promises in this area. Polls show that people strongly favor Bush in terms of safety and the way events have gone, the people Bush has done a good job at improving security. Kerry might end up being better at this but he would have to break a promise or two. National security is not a weakness of the Bush campaign, dont tell people it is.
"A vote for Bush is a vote to oppose terrorism, to defend the values on which the US is based, to defend the American way of life, and to keep the world safe for democracy." - Not a chance. A vote for Bush is a vote for destruction of the world that we live in, inviting terror by making America hated around the world, to expand the American Empire one country at a time, and to restrict the majority of money and power to the wealthy. This is an opinion which involves the consumption of LOTS of liberal kool-aid. I could contest that but it would be a long post for a diffrent thread

So a president who hasn't been elected yet started a war that happened 40 years ago. Man, I've just gotta have what you're smoking!
stop misqouting me.

I see one person starting this thread with misinformation, incomplete facts, and sometimes outright lies.

Then i see people assaulting him with the same misinformation, incomplete facts, and outright lies, just based on Democratic dogma rather than Republican dogma. Im going to revise some UDOEness. Note that on most of his points, he did not give much reason for why he felt that way.


[quote=UDOE]"The fact is that Republicans are the party of diversity and inclusion." - nope Actually yes, the Democrats tend to favor labor groups which reflexivly slam immigrants like me for "stealing their jobs." This is one reason i prefer Bush.
"The fact is that there are more women in the Bush administration than any prior administration." - not true Cant show this is true or untrue, can you?
"The fact is that Bush is supporting more Black congressional candidates than his opponent, John Kerry." - also not true
"Fact is the US economy grew by 2.8% in July alone due to Bush's economic policies. That's up from the last 5 months of the Clinton administration when the economy starting its nosedive." - prove it. and check your sources Hes probably right, since there was the IT industry bubble burst just before Clinton left office. However, i would like to see what that 2.8% was referring to. GDP, job growth, profits, stock prices?
"There are many democrats and other non republicans speaking at the GOP convention. At the Democrat convention you had to be upper class card holding democrat. The GOP welcomes everyone of all backgrounds." - Democrats that are speaking out against you, Hillary Clinton the most notable. And the Democratic convention welcomed representatives from around the country, of all nationalities and upbringings He wasnt referring to the Democrats marching out in the streets. The Republicans are welcoming people from around the country, of all nationalities and upbringings. There are several democrats (at least two of them in high ranking positions, i think one was a senator) who were invited to speak out against the democratic party. Thats what he was referring to.
"Fact is, Kerry and the protestors think Osama is a good guy and Bush and the Republicans think Osama is a bad guy." - Absolutely not true. What, you think we're stupid? I would rather say thats hes stupid.
"Kerry thinks we should follow Spain's example and run away with our tail between our legs as Spain did and the French and Italians are apparently going to do." - Again, not true. He believes in a fair war, one where America doesn't take all the hits, and America doesn't work to create an American colony, but another, independent country. You say that as if Bush doesnt believe in the same goal. Bush just has a record of believing this while Kerry's history on this issue is fuzzy.
"Bush thinks we should stand and fight. Bush thinks we should defend the values on which our nation is founded and not give into bloodthirsty tyrants." - Extortion of the facts, and Bush is just a stubborn dumbass who won't admit he's wrong I find this funny since Bush very recently went over mistakes he made. Stubborness is good. We dont want the terrorists learning that they can make any demand they want and we will give in. Thats stupid and shortsighted and might end up jeopardizing America.
"Kerry says we should let Osama detonate a nuke inside our nation before we wage war on them." - Absolute BS. And none of us contested that Afghanistan was a righteous war. It's Iraq, the one proven to be on false grounds, that we have always contested. Actually Kerry did in fact allege something similar. Im not sure if he still maintains this position. Also, you are wrong, many democrats have claimed our attack on Afghanistan was unjust. Try to stay aware of your own base, please.
"Bush says get them before they get us." - which is in no way keeping with America's duty to be a peacekeeper and an independent 3rd party working to resolve conflicts. Show me a document telling us that we have that duty. Bush never directly stated us as an independant third party and as things currently stand we are arguabley peacekeeping by protecting stability of several new governments. Besides, the UN is not an independant 3rd party which functions as a peacekeeper working to resolve conflicts, rather as a way of defunct, powerless countries of gaining more say than they reasonabley should, and they do in fact have the aforementioned duty.
"Kerry attacks Bush for serving in Vietnam." - Actually, he doesn't attack Bush, but Bush didn't serve in Vietnam. He avoided his service by skipping out on Texas Air National Guard duty.
"Fact is, while Kerry was in Vietnam, Kerry also eagerly committed war crimes, genocide and other atrocities against innocent vietnamese women and children in a war that was started and supported by democrats. Kennedy started Vietnam and Kennedy was a dem." Not true. Again, check your sources [color=red]Yes, not true. Kennedy and perhaps Nixon can take some of the blame for Vietnam, although most of the weight should fall on the shoulders of the now defunct French Empire. Kerry wasnt one of the ones who instigated those war crimes. He should be proud of his service there as well as some of his postwar activism. But he should understand that its only natural that as a result other veterans will look upon him with disgust.
"Bush believes in the right to life. Kerry believes women have the right to kill a child up to year after birth." Absolutely not. Kerry believes in women's rights, unlike Bush, and believes that the decision should be made by the individual, not the government. And these are only early-pregnancy abortions. Killing a child after birth, or close to birth, is murder. Check your sources. Kerry's policy allows near birth abortions when the fetus is already concious. That isnt BS, but its morality is debatable. I have not heard that he allows post birth euthanization though and i seriously doubt that to be true. What actually worries me is the idea of abortion being used in all cases. Im an autistic and i can forsee parents "curing" autism by abortion combined by genetic screening. Bush's stance of only allowing abortion in situations where the mother's life is in jeapordy or when rape was involved is near perfect, thank you. I also like the idea of perhaps very early term abortions which can be administered as soon as pregnancy testing proves positive. I think i differ on this with Bush.
"Bush believes that all Americans were entitled to a tax cut. Kerry believes only the select few, namely his closest buddies, are entitled to tax cuts." - Now where did you get this? Bush pushed tax cuts that primarily benefited the rich, and many of the lower class didn't get a tax cut at all. If you didn't notice, Kerry supports rolling back the tax cuts to the wealthy. UDOE thats laughable. Under Bush, most lower class families now pay no federal taxes (although state taxes still stand.) The tax cut was for all but it wasnt ungraduated. What Kerry proposes is probably not too bad but i feel it to be quite unfair on the rich. Even if it does work the rich will just be more motivated go to tax shelters like Luxembourg when doing capital transactions, weakening the USA economy.
"Bush supported and passed prescription drug coverage for seniors. Kerry thinks Seniors should be left out in the cold to fend for themselves." Not true. Check your sources True, check your sources. Bush now has a medicare system that has reduced costs on the elderly by giving them special benefits. The main problem with it is the complexity and beauracracy involved. Kerry has a more global healthcare visions (blurrily defined and not overly clear other than spiting Bush's reforms) which some may view as neglecting the elderly, thats an opinion matter.
"Kerry thinks the people are incapable of thinking for themselves. He believes the American people are incapable of self government." Absolute BS. Check your sources. Its not bullshit. Its an opinion. Unless he meant Kerry literally thinks so.
"Bush thinks the American people are the backbone of America. Unlike Kerry, Bush respects people who don't agree with him." - Not true. Bush doesn't respect people who don't agree with him. Kerry is willing to listen. Kerry has been very weak about arguing against those who oppose him and has relied more on loyalty of his support base when it came to that. Its just politics as usual. In reality Kerry's campaign prefers to manage information and opinion largely to try and counter the GOP's recent digging into Kerry's congressional record. Kerry is on the defensive and needs to keep strong supporters who cannot be swayed by GOP findings. Bush was doing the same thing a while ago by making himself out to be a religious man to gain strong bases among the religious organizations and charities. He didnt really have a tool to appeal to all at once like Kerry does, since Republicans arent so strongly activistic that a "Kerryhass" platform like the "Bushhass" currently being used by Kerry and pioneered by Dean wont work.
"Kerry wants to give big oil contracts, in Iraq, to the French and Germans.
Bush told France and Germany to get lost cause they supported a bloodthirsty dictator who tortured and gassed millions of innocent women and children." Bush started the Iraq war because he wanted the oil, and wouldn't allow fair trading with the world because he's greedy. Nobody supported Saddam Hussein. You GOPs mistake not supporting a pre-emptive strike for supporting a dictator. Not true. France DID have trade deals with Iraq. For a while this included nuclear materials. France opposed the Iraq intervention to protect its interests there, existing with the Blessing of the Baathist government and active despite the UN sanctions. Same goes for Russia. The distribution of weapons in Iraq was dominantly of USSR origin, with a not insignificant amount coming from France (about 20%.) No nation that i know of other than the USSR (and Russia) and France made more than a 10% contribution of total weapons at Iraq's disposal. Germany's stance seems genuine and i respect their opposition to the Iraq war. As for oil, Bush openly stated that the USA was not using the money gained from it. It went to groups operating in Iraq (and now the government there) for the purpose of assisting reconstruction. The intelligence agencies of almost every industrial nation at the time the war started agreed that Saddam had not destroyed his weapons stockpile. Its possible that he did not in fact destroy it until the very last minute, if he did at all. Although no WMD were found that is one of a myriad of more military reasons Clinton and Bush W had been working towards such a confrontation.
"The crucial difference between Kerry and Bush is this:
Kerry believes in Europe and its socialist governments." Nope. Yep. Not to the same extent the Europeans do but he is certainly more Eurocentric and left leaning than Bush is. Kerry has been described by his own party as a far leftist in forms of both praise and critism. If it wasnt for him constantly changing his stances i would assign him the label "socialist" or "laborist," but for now im not sure.
"Bush believes in America and in the American people." - Bush believes in the rich and oil. Nothing more Liberal bullshit in its basest form. I think both kerry and bush believe in the USA people and im fatally cynical in regards to politicians.
"And that is why Bush will be reelected in America.
There comes a point when you must stand straight and tall and make it clear you mean every word you say. Even since 911, Kerry has flipped flopped often and has denounced the war on terror." - flip-flop. If you had an ounce of brain matter, you'd think to actually look at the two very different versions of each bill that Kerry supposedly flip-flopped on. You'd then see that the one that Kerry voted against had many provisions in there for corporations, reducing environmental laws, etc. I would know...I've looked through several of the bills. Interesting. Is this BS or is this true? Im sure much of that was opinion based, sources so i can check?
"Bush says what he's going to do and he does it. He's not fighting the terror just cause he wants to. He's fighting cause he has to." - Correction: fighting supposed "terrorism", not terror. Terror is just fear, terrorism is the malicious mass-producing of fear. And Bush wants to bomb the Middle East so he can steal their oil, while Kerry is focused on protecting America while strengthening our ties around the world. Bush has made America hated around the world. America was always hated around the world ya fool. It didnt take Bush to do it, Bush is just a useful figure to blame for it. Kerry wont do any good since the people he wants to suck up to likely wont care unless they get some type of advantage out of it (i am of course, speaking of Europe,) and his plans are not diffrent from Bush's ones on protection of the nation (at least in the areas where he does have plans) or at least -- were not.
"Under the dems. control of the white house, any congregation who had a pastor that said anything negative about Clinton had their church property seized by the government." - No, that would be after Bush came into office, under the Patriot Act. Check your sources. Nothing of the sort happened during the Clinton Administration Actually, Clinton was guilty of numerous cover ups, more so to pacify the population into thinking there was peace when there was in fact numerous insurgencies and a growing covert war vs the US. Some of those did involve repression of expression. Bush is not guilty of the patriot act, that was a bipartisan movement, and its almost due to lose its effects. Not that the patriot act was uneeded, but it was a tad too much with too few provisions on what would happen if it was found to be abused. So far it has not really been abused and it has pretty much been used 100% fairly on the levels of government Bush is involved in.
"Under Bush, president bashing is protected and the government is not allowed to seize your property for it." - Read my above statement Under Clinton it was forbidden and done on the occasion with the best of intentions. Under Bush its more permissible but rarely done.
"Under Clinton, people who protested the Presidents pet projects were physically assualted by the police acting under federal orders." - Check your sources. Once again, not true. True. Its true under Bush too. Its called the Food and Drug Administration. Someone needs to stop their rampage of enforcing special corporate interests.
"Under Bush, protestors don't have to worry about such gestapo tactics. Bush supports free speech and Bush supports and respects the right to peaceful assembly." - BS. Bush's Administration created the Patriot Act. Enough said Blaiming the patriot act on Bush again are you? WTO riots (and the Mardi Gras riots that followed shortly afterwards) left a bad taste in my mouth. I would love it if Bush could pass something allowing us to gun down activists who vandalize our streets. Seattle residents like me werent pleased. But the police still used restraint and tried their best to keep things peaceful, as they are doing in new york now. Do you know police are under state jurisdiction, not federal? The local governments of both washington and new york are very much democratic IIRC. This is funny since WA has some of the worst inequality in the tax system that heavily favors the rich
"A vote for Kerry is a vote to adopt spanish cowardice in our internal and external affairs." - Nope. Spanish cowardice? How about working with the world, improving the economy, and making America safe. Kerry's proposed rollbacks of some of Bush's policies would slow USA growth and if we were to cave in to foreign demands we will lose more jobs to other nations as well as expose struggling US companies to myriads of frivolous suits in socialist courts. I feel that because of this, kerry wont live up to his promises in this area. Polls show that people strongly favor Bush in terms of safety and the way events have gone, the people Bush has done a good job at improving security. Kerry might end up being better at this but he would have to break a promise or two. National security is not a weakness of the Bush campaign, dont tell people it is.
"A vote for Bush is a vote to oppose terrorism, to defend the values on which the US is based, to defend the American way of life, and to keep the world safe for democracy." - Not a chance. A vote for Bush is a vote for destruction of the world that we live in, inviting terror by making America hated around the world, to expand the American Empire one country at a time, and to restrict the majority of money and power to the wealthy. This is an opinion which involves the consumption of LOTS of liberal kool-aid. I could contest that but it would be a long post for a diffrent thread
good job

Quite Deadly is the freakin man! i agree with hom totally!

stop misqouting me.

Not going to get into this but LOL is South Pacific stupid; you do realize that we can tell when you edit your posts, right? Its best just to admit you made an honest mistake.

Which almost makes you wonder if his original post was intentionally wrong, so as to sow subconcious seeds of doubt, that even if blantantly wrong would kinda bug you....... Kinda like those bad phonecalls the Republicans made saying that one guy(name escapes me, it was a state election) fathered illegitimate kids interacially.

Unlike the dems whose primary platform plank seems to be "Let's negotiate with Europe and the world on whether we have a right to defend ourselves."
I agree with the New York Firefighters Association that "Our freedom is nonnegotiable." Not with the europeans, not with the muslims, not with the UN, not with anyone.
Those who attack our freedom will be subject to American wrath, no ifs ands or buts. This cannnot and will not be negotiated with anyone.

Not going to get into this but LOL is South Pacific stupid; you do realize that we can tell when you edit your posts, right? Its best just to admit you made an honest mistake.

Which almost makes you wonder if his original post was intentionally wrong, so as to sow subconcious seeds of doubt, that even if blantantly wrong would kinda bug you....... Kinda like those bad phonecalls the Republicans made saying that one guy(name escapes me, it was a state election) fathered illegitimate kids interacially.
typo. so sue me.

Under the Patriot Act, agents still need a court order to search your home.
To say they don't is a lie.

The Patriot Act does not require agents to snoops through your reading lists.
Unless you have been reading books on how to make bioweapons and stuff like that. But even then, agents still need a warrant.

A warrant is still needed to bug your phone or otherwise listen in your phone or internet conversations. Under the Patriot Act, agents cannot make NS hand over the IPs of posters without first getting a federal warrant.

Just debunking some lies about the Patriot Act.

Under Bush,
people who took the lives of thousands of innocents, are now running away to save their own.

Bush is strengthing medicare and keeping America's promise to its seniors. You know, those people who fought and and lost a limb or two to keep this nation free.

typo. so sue me.
Obviously a typo, but the fact that someone had to confront you for you to admit it is sad. Now that you have admitted it, I can call you a flip-flopper.

Also, whatever happened to social security, it seems to me we just went back on a promise we made to our seniors.

"Under Clinton, people who protested the Presidents pet projects were physically assualted by the police acting under federal orders." - Check your sources. Once again, not true.


Fact is that the WTO and other globalization efforts were pet projects of Clinton. When people protested them, in Seattle for example, they were brutally beaten by both local and federal police under reign of Bill Clinton.

The person to blame for the begining of globalization is Nixon. He was the one who took America of the Bretton Woods montery system and of the gold standard. He was also is to blame for the oil crisis in the 70's and the decline of American industry. America had 23 years of prosperity from 1945-1968 that was result of a partnership between business and the government.

Since the 70's the US has been in a slow decline eating away the foundations that were built from the early 20th century to the middle.

w00t to the max
After reading this thread, I have come to this conclusion.

This message is hidden because The South Pacific is on your ignore list (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/profile.php?do=editlist) .

John Kerry "I supported the Persian Gulf War."
Fact: John Kerry voted against the authorization to use force to liberate Kuwait and he voted against spending to keep our troops there supplied.


John Kerry "I support the war on terror. I have always supported the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan."
Fact: Kerry condemned the US invasion of Afghanistan.
Fact: Kerry condemned the US liberation of Iraq.
Fact: Kerry has repeatedly voted against American troops.
Fact: Kerry once admitted he taking campaign contribution from foriegn sources.

A month later:
John Kerry "I opposed the invasion of Iraq."
Fact: Kerry wanted to be President of the USA so he VOTED for the Iraq war.

John Kerry "I support human rights in the phillipines."
Fact: John Kerry voted against funding aid to the phillipine government to help it combat Al Qaeda linked terrorists who were engaged wanton genocide.
Fact: John Kerry voted against both sending and funding advisors to help the Phillipine government defeat the terrorists.

Latest political polls show Bush getting a lot of bounce from the GOP convention:

Bush 62%
Kerry 43%

Thats one crazy poll. The latest poll I can find shows that the election is still up for grabs, and that in likely voters Bush leads in PA and Wisconsin while Kerry leads in Iowa.

.... I've got Bin Laden hiding in my garden shed.
Note to stupid MI6 agents. It's a fucking joke. Get back to slamming each other's dicks in car doorsLOL

Funny, how different websites have opposing "facts" on the same politician.

Me, I'm voting for Kerry. He may be a liar but at least he didn't screw up an entire nation by:

supporting tax breaks for the rich
cutting environmental regulations
sending our young people out to the other end of the world to fight a war that didn't need to be fought
alienating the LGBT community with his under-researched "campaign to save the Family"

A vote for Kerry is a vote to adopt spanish cowardice in our internal and external affairs.
A vote for Bush is a vote to oppose terrorism, to defend the values on which the US is based, to defend the American way of life, and to keep the world safe for democracy.

*snorts loudly*

First of all, Kerry is an American. For him to be Spanish, he'd have to be from Spain. And if he were Spanish, he would not be able to run for Presidency.

Secondly, the things Bush is doing are not "defending values on which the U.S. is based." I do believe the US is based on freedom and civil rights for all. The U.S. is not based on bringing your rich buddies into power, decreasing taxes for said buddies, or for trying to decrease rights of certain people just because you don't like who they are.

Just had to say it. People are always stuck in their views and barely ever change, but I still feel the need to try.

Funny, how different websites have opposing "facts" on the same politician.

Me, I'm voting for Kerry. He may be a liar but at least he didn't screw up an entire nation by:

supporting tax breaks for the rich
cutting environmental regulations
sending our young people out to the other end of the world to fight a war that didn't need to be fought
alienating the LGBT community with his under-researched "campaign to save the Family"

No kidding. I don't like Kerry, but he has one really big thing going for him: He isn't George W. Bush.

Ok, I'm a pretty simple and try to mind my own business and stay out of politics, but this election has really caught my attention. Just looking at the solid facts:
Bush has the worst jobs record in 75 years.
Bush is the worst evironmental president in the history of the USA.
Bush lied about the WMD's. Though misinformed he may have been, you do not send the world's most powerful army off to war if your not 100% sure of it.
Bush hates homosexuals who just want to love each other.
Bush claims to be conservative with the economy, but ends up spending 140 million on the Iraq war, and having the largest national debt in the history of the USA.
Like I said, I'm not trying to piss anybody off or tell you who to vote for, but seriously why can't we all just get along?