NationStates Jolt Archive

Okay, how many NationStaters have been caving and what kind of caving have you done? (Poll to come.)

I chose option 5

#4 none in the US, though (except tourist caves)

This is one experience I've always meant to try, but never got around to.

Just a touristy walkthrough cave at Waitomo.

The thing about caving for the first time...
It has to be dangerous, but safe at the same time. Otherwise you'll find it boring and unenjoyable. Whenever I go caving with someone for the first time, they're in the front of the line (because when you go caving, you tend to stay in a line, simply because you usually can't really stand side by side). However, I rarely take someone for the first time if it is a cave I'm not familiar with. I go with only experienced people into a cave for the first time (even if none of us have been in it before). If you're not in the front, you don't feel like you're really exploring, and that's what makes caving so great. You always feel like you're going farther than anyone has ever been so far (if it isn't tourist caves...). I dunno, just don't go with inexperienced people, but don't let the people you go with stick you in the back of the line. Stay at the front. I actually enjoy watching the lead person be unsure about where they are going. If you've got a great sense of adventure, caving is a sport for you.

Er, what would you put if repelled in one, and stayed in for around nine hours? But haven't camped...?

I've never been, and I probably won't, but I have a friend who works at a guide for one of them, and she really likes it.

Er, what would you put if repelled in one, and stayed in for around nine hours? But haven't camped...?
It's really up to you, although if you've never camped in one, you probably should put option 4.

Er, what would you put if repelled in one, and stayed in for around nine hours? But haven't camped...?

We stick you in guano for the remaining three hours.

I've never been, and I probably won't, but I have a friend who works at a guide for one of them, and she really likes it.
You should try it.

Cavers don't refer to themselves as spelunkers. Cavers rescue spelunkers (http://www.umsl.edu/~joellaws/ozark_caving/mss/spelunk.htm).

A spelunker, technically, is a person who goes in caves. Spelunker, at this time, carries with it the image of a tennis-shod explorer, caving in cotton clothing by the light of a hand held flashlight, with butane lighters for backups.

Professional students of caves are speleologists. Speleology has always been an interdisciplinary science, requiring one to have at least a smattering of geology, hydrology, biology, chemistry, climatology and survey techniques in addition to whatever specialty one has.

So what is a caver? Unlike spelunkers, whose skills are questionable, and speleologists, who seem distinctly serious and un-fun, a caver may be considered the middle of the road cave explorer.Cavers enjoy caves for their own sake, and most people whose interest in caving is primarily recreational consider themselves cavers. Cavers often possess the best technical skills in moving safely underground, and many of the innovations in new equipment have been invented by cavers.

I'm a caver.

How did you vote? Option 5, like me?

Cavers don't refer to themselves as spelunkers. Cavers rescue spelunkers (http://www.umsl.edu/~joellaws/ozark_caving/mss/spelunk.htm).

A spelunker, technically, is a person who goes in caves. Spelunker, at this time, carries with it the image of a tennis-shod explorer, caving in cotton clothing by the light of a hand held flashlight, with butane lighters for backups.

Professional students of caves are speleologists. Speleology has always been an interdisciplinary science, requiring one to have at least a smattering of geology, hydrology, biology, chemistry, climatology and survey techniques in addition to whatever specialty one has.

So what is a caver? Unlike spelunkers, whose skills are questionable, and speleologists, who seem distinctly serious and un-fun, a caver may be considered the middle of the road cave explorer.Cavers enjoy caves for their own sake, and most people whose interest in caving is primarily recreational consider themselves cavers. Cavers often possess the best technical skills in moving safely underground, and many of the innovations in new equipment have been invented by cavers.

I'm a caver.

Spelunker probably is derived from the sound made when some fool falls down a hole. SPELUNK! :)

How did you vote? Option 5, like me?
First, this story.

I've seen first-hand the effect of irresponsible caving practices on a cave's ecosystem. There was an endangered Striped Salamander that lived in a well-known Tennessee cave. Some flashlight cavers went in, had a good time, drank some beers and ate their lunch, then hiked out. They left their lunch trash, including three apples.

It's unbelieveable how delicate a cave ecosystem can be. Those three apples so radically increased the food supply for some grubs that lived in the cave that the population exploded almost overnight. Unfortunately, apples are not a common cave food, and in a matter of a week or two they were used up. Suddenly, the enlarged population of cave grubs couldn't support themselves, and the colony actually died out.

As these grubs were the mainstay of the Striped Salamander's diet, the small colony of salamanders found themselves without a food supply. They too disappeared. I don't believe anyone has sighted another specimen since.

So no, I don't camp in caves, and I follow the National Speleological Society's credo for cavers:

Take nothing but pictures. Leave nothing but footprints. Kill nothing but time.

errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr............

Who is professor Spelunker?

Right on the border of 4 and 5. I've done a little rappeling in a cave and have used other ladders and jumars once each. I've been to an NSS convention. I've done some funky crawls. My father and brother are the real cavers. Dad has named a few minor features. Cavers are crazy, in a very fun sense. They are right up there with SCAdians on the high tolerance for eccentric behavior. :D

Words of advice to those that have never gone caving but want to.

Try to keep a few things in mind...

Study the cave YOURSELF before hand. The first cave I went in I ended up in waste deep water that felt like 10 degrees (probably exaggerating) in October.

Make sure you dont really care about the clothes you wear. The mud will get all over.

An outer "shell" of water resistant clothing will definitely help keep you dry and happy.

COTTON KILLS. Nuff said

Elbow pads, knee pads, helmet with light (or flashlight duct taped on is almost as good).

Backup flashlight plus batteries (in plastic bag)

Trail snacks and even more important...WATER. You'll get pretty thirsty.

The policy of take only photos, leave only footprints, kill only time well...leave only footprints means you leave only footprints. And since there aren't many bathrooms in caves...you're gonna hafta bring you own tp and ziploc bags to take *you know what* with you.

I've done a few caves, never anything more than 6 hours though. I enjoyed it but now I've used all the caves in my immediet area.

Words of advice to those that have never gone caving but want to.

Try to keep a few things in mind...

Study the cave YOURSELF before hand. The first cave I went in I ended up in waste deep water that felt like 10 degrees (probably exaggerating) in October.

Make sure you dont really care about the clothes you wear. The mud will get all over.

An outer "shell" of water resistant clothing will definitely help keep you dry and happy.

COTTON KILLS. Nuff said

Elbow pads, knee pads, helmet with light (or flashlight duct taped on is almost as good).

Backup flashlight plus batteries (in plastic bag)

Trail snacks and even more important...WATER. You'll get pretty thirsty.

The policy of take only photos, leave only footprints, kill only time well...leave only footprints means you leave only footprints. And since there aren't many bathrooms in caves...you're gonna hafta bring you own tp and ziploc bags to take *you know what* with you.
Uh, that's not exactly the best advice I've ever seen...

1) Be prepared for water no matter (most caves are formed by water, and therefore have water in them) what and don't study the cave before hand, that ruins the sense of adventure.
2) Yea, you will get really muddy and cave mud is a special mix of super sticky stuffs that don't come out too well.
3) Don't put on too much clothes--you'll get hot easily. Just make sure you've got plenty of socks on and some thick blue jeans. After that, just keep your chest out of the water (it's not that difficult to do).
4) I've never had a big deal made out of cotton before...
5) Elbow pads, knee pads, and helmets are for wimps. Elbow pads and knee pads actually make it hard for me to bend those joints and it hurts afterwards (12+ hours of wearing pads?) and helmets limit your view. If you wear a helmet, you'll bump the helmet on the rocks. If you don't wear a helmet, you won't.
6) Back up flashlight (I usually go with at least 3) because it's hard to change batteries in the dark.
7) I prefer beef jerky to trail snacks, but yea...food is a good idea, just don't leave the wrappers behind.
8) I've been caving for extremely long periods of time and never had to use the bathroom while in the cave. You get rid of all your bodily fluids from sweating, and as long as you don't eat a huge meal before going in, you probably won't need tp...

cavers! the guilin limestone caves in china are a must-visit! maybe if you're visiting beijing in 2008 you can drop by to take a look.

I would consider caving a sport...but I don't know how it could safely be made competitive

If it could, it should be an olympic sport, then I could go to the olympics!!

Uh, that's not exactly the best advice I've ever seen...
Opal, while you may have done fine with your advice, the previous set was better all-round. Cotton may have worked fine where you live, but in TAG (Tennessee / Alabama / Georgia), blue jeans are an invitation to hypothermia. As to your suggestion that helmets are for wimps ... I'm sorry, but you're an idiot. Rockfall is common in cave exploring, and helmets save lives. The reason that 'cavers rescue spelunkers' is that casual cavers like you don't follow sensible safety precautions.

I've been on several cave rescues and two body recoverys. I don't take safety lightly. My helmet has saved me from serious head injury on at least 3 occasions. At least one of them could have been life-threatening.

I'll give this advice instead. Contact a local NSS-sponsored grotto if you're serious about caving. Here's a list (http://www.caves.org/io/grottos.shtml) for Americans. You furriners can search on ' Speleological Society' and your country or area. I know the UK, Canada and Australia have organizations, but they may not be national in scope. Contact people who actually know what they're doing before you go crawling around with flashlights and ball caps. It's possible to be safe AND have fun.

Opal, while you may have done fine with your advice, the previous set was better all-round. Cotton may have worked fine where you live, but in TAG (Tennessee / Alabama / Georgia), blue jeans are an invitation to hypothermia. As to your suggestion that helmets are for wimps ... I'm sorry, but you're an idiot. Rockfall is common in cave exploring, and helmets save lives. The reason that 'cavers rescue spelunkers' is that casual cavers like you don't follow sensible safety precautions.

I've been on several cave rescues and two body recoverys. I don't take safety lightly. My helmet has saved me from serious head injury on at least 3 occasions. At least one of them could have been life-threatening.

I'll give this advice instead. Contact a local NSS-sponsored grotto if you're serious about caving. Here's a list (http://www.caves.org/io/grottos.shtml) for Americans. You furriners can search on ' Speleological Society' and your country or area. I know the UK, Canada and Australia have organizations, but they may not be national in scope. Contact people who actually know what they're doing before you go crawling around with flashlights and ball caps. It's possible to be safe AND have fun.

No thanks.

Opal, while you may have done fine with your advice, the previous set was better all-round. Cotton may have worked fine where you live, but in TAG (Tennessee / Alabama / Georgia), blue jeans are an invitation to hypothermia. As to your suggestion that helmets are for wimps ... I'm sorry, but you're an idiot. Rockfall is common in cave exploring, and helmets save lives. The reason that 'cavers rescue spelunkers' is that casual cavers like you don't follow sensible safety precautions.

I've been on several cave rescues and two body recoverys. I don't take safety lightly. My helmet has saved me from serious head injury on at least 3 occasions. At least one of them could have been life-threatening.

I'll give this advice instead. Contact a local NSS-sponsored grotto if you're serious about caving. Here's a list (http://www.caves.org/io/grottos.shtml) for Americans. You furriners can search on ' Speleological Society' and your country or area. I know the UK, Canada and Australia have organizations, but they may not be national in scope. Contact people who actually know what they're doing before you go crawling around with flashlights and ball caps. It's possible to be safe AND have fun.


And we have a winner. Opal, as much as you may not like it, Frisbeeteria is absolutely correct. I can also attest to the usefulness of a helmet in preventing serious injury. At the NSS convention I mentioned above, I had a falling rock bounce off mine. And that's not to mention all the minor knocks from simply being in tight places. And cotton is a no-no because it absorbs and holds water compared to wool or synthetics. Wool is ok, because it retain heat when wet, but synthetics are even better because they absorb less water and dry faster. Note that cotton is frowned upon in mountaineering as well, for the same reason. Cotton=hypothermia.

Also, remember to bring 3 independent sources of light (usually a headlamp, and 2 flashlights.)

Here is a good suggested starting place for anyone who may be interested: An Introduction to Caves and Caving (http://cavingintro.net/index.html)

Frisbeeteria, I assume you are 1 of the two claimants to being a pro?

Frisbeeteria, I assume you are 1 of the two claimants to being a pro?
Nah. I'm a dilettante these days. In my more active days I caved with some of the folks that could conceivably be considered pros. My friend Nancy did an incredible IMAX film called Journey into Amazing Caves (http://www.amazingcaves.com/f_home.html). Check it out if it comes to a theatre near you.

I've written a few safety pamphlets, had a couple of articles published, done a paleontology dig for the Smithsonian, assisted in a few rescues, done a bit of survey work for the NPS, that sort of thing, but mostly as one of many 'pack mules'. I let the strong skinny ones do most of the hard work in-cave.

Heh. Almost forgot this one. The FBI called *me* when they were looking for Eric Rudolph in North Carolina caves. Seems I was still the designated point of contact. I told them there was no way he'd survive in NC caves because of hypothermia issues, and that they'd find him in a trailer in the western part of the state, and I was almost right. He was out dumpster-diving in Murphey before returning to his campsite when they caught him.

You should try it.

I'm the last person you'd want in a cave, I'd hypochrodaic myself into a nervous breakdown.

I'm the last person you'd want in a cave, I'd hypochrodaic myself into a nervous breakdown.
You're thinking that caves are tiny, tight places. A lot are, but there are some bigguns. There's one in (I think) Burma that some NSS cavers went down to survey and photograph. They got into the Big Room and started getting the flash unit crews into place. Beginning at the entrance to the room, it took them over 8 hours to hike the perimeter of the room. They had to stay in radio contact for the actual shoot.

With something like 14 multi-flash crews at each of the stations, they syncronized lighting and shot their shots. The final pictures captured a grand total of 35% of the room. Biiiiiig space.

By the way, the Chinese word for 'cave' is 'dong'. The Chinese caver women like to brag on getting 'a dong a day'. And some of the men, too.

I fell in a ditch once.

I fell in a ditch once.
When I was little, I swam in a ditch.

Nah. I'm a dilettante these days. In my more active days I caved with some of the folks that could conceivably be considered pros. My friend Nancy did an incredible IMAX film called Journey into Amazing Caves (http://www.amazingcaves.com/f_home.html). Check it out if it comes to a theatre near you.

I've written a few safety pamphlets, had a couple of articles published, done a paleontology dig for the Smithsonian, assisted in a few rescues, done a bit of survey work for the NPS, that sort of thing, but mostly as one of many 'pack mules'. I let the strong skinny ones do most of the hard work in-cave.

Heh. Almost forgot this one. The FBI called *me* when they were looking for Eric Rudolph in North Carolina caves. Seems I was still the designated point of contact. I told them there was no way he'd survive in NC caves because of hypothermia issues, and that they'd find him in a trailer in the western part of the state, and I was almost right. He was out dumpster-diving in Murphey before returning to his campsite when they caught him.

My dad and you probably have a few friends in common. :D He used to be pretty serious when he was younger - similar type of stuff in Tenessee back in the 60s and 70s. He had some seriously bad-ass caver friends - people into cave diving and that sort of stuff.

Then we moved to costal Texas far enough away from the good caves to cramp his activity for a number of years. He got back into it in the 90's and has done the Carlsbad CRF/NSS restoration camp for a number of years.

Eh, I'm just not the outdoor-sy type of person, that's all. I hate camping - just the thought of it makes me sick to my stomach.

Eh, I'm just not the outdoor-sy type of person, that's all. I hate camping - just the thought of it makes me sick to my stomach.
Caving = indoors (in a sense). It's climate-controlled.

Caving = indoors (in a sense). It's climate-controlled.

:D

And just an interesting subjective observatrion, but cavers are probably attracts a larger percentage of nutty than even NS.

Caving = indoors (in a sense). It's climate-controlled.

I know that. :p

I'm just saying; it's not my cup of tea, that's all.

And just an interesting subjective observatrion, but cavers are probably attracts a larger percentage of nutty than even NS.
Well there is that.

Tourist.

Biggest one was probably Carlsbad....