NationStates Jolt Archive

Will the overall effect of the demonstrators at the RNC be a help or a hinderance to Kerry?

Hmmmm normally I'd say a hindrance, but with the extreme amounts of security, they might curb their tendancies and keep things civil... in which case I don't think it will change anything for Kerry.

So, hindrance or no effect. I can't see them helping Kerry.

It depends how the security forces react and how the protesters behave.

Possible outcomes:

1) Nothing happens. Bush does his speech and looks good (unless he magnificently screws it up).

2) The protesters behave like they did in 1968 at the DNC. Bush looks good.

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/1968%20Democratic%20National%20Convention

3) Security forces act like they did at Kent State in 1970. It'll be reported like point 2 initially was at the DNC (protestor-instigated riot when it was later revealed to be a police-instigated riot). Bush will look good. Any truth that arrives later will not shake Bush's base at all.

http://www.spectacle.org/595/kent.html

4) Terrorists attack (and you know they want to!) making Bush look the fool and many die. Kerry wins.

Umm...so unless terrorists attack, Bush wins. Although, I wouldn't want Kerry to 'win' under those circumstances. Lets just hope nothing bad or embarrassing occurs.

I think a terror attack would give President Bush a boost in his ratings (If he survived), the whole 'hero' thing, you know?

I don't know... but I'm heading into NYC tomorrow to see what happens, either way.

I don't know... but I'm heading into NYC tomorrow to see what happens, either way.
Post pics. Or die.

All i know is there were 2 guys holding signs, and the guy with the kerry sign punched the guy holding a bush sign for no reason that might make kerry look bad

A sign of things to come (again...)

Ron Reagan was intervieweing a guy for MSNBC and the police arrested him for no reason. Caught live. Get the truth before the NYP says the guy was using spray paint.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5850151/?#040829e

The police might actually save Kerry's bacon on this one. If the protestors get violent, then Kerry looks bad. However, the police have a strong presence and may just stop things from getting out of hand.

As an aside, I saw some video of protestors hiding smoke bombs and ball bearings in the sticks that make up their signs. The ball bearings are used to trip up police horses. This is a standard technique taught by the schools of anarchist mischief-making (Ruckus Group, etc.).

Will the overall effect of the demonstrators at the RNC be a help or a hinderance to Kerry?

So far all reports are saying with the exception of some really minor things, the protesters have been excellently behaved. So much so that they're a bit surprised. I believe they had over 400,000 yesterday marching.. without problem. I think if it stays this way for the next four days, it will be good for the DNC, if it turns violent and gets way out of control, then yes, it could backfire on the DNC.

The police might actually save Kerry's bacon on this one. If the protestors get violent, then Kerry looks bad. However, the police have a strong presence and may just stop things from getting out of hand.

As an aside, I saw some video of protestors hiding smoke bombs and ball bearings in the sticks that make up their signs. The ball bearings are used to trip up police horses. This is a standard technique taught by the schools of anarchist mischief-making (Ruckus Group, etc.).

That's just stupid stuff. I understand protesting, but riots and mischief don't do ANYTHING whatsoever. Just ask PETA.

So far all reports are saying with the exception of some really minor things, the protesters have been excellently behaved. So much so that they're a bit surprised. I believe they had over 400,000 yesterday marching.. without problem. I think if it stays this way for the next four days, it will be good for the DNC, if it turns violent and gets way out of control, then yes, it could backfire on the DNC.

Funny how the number of demonstrators goes up with each favorable post, isn't it? :p

Also, I didn't know the DNC was sponsoring these events. Is that really true?

That's just stupid stuff. I understand protesting, but riots and mischief don't do ANYTHING whatsoever. Just ask PETA.

Yes, but there is a segment of these people who don't care about advancing any peaceful agenda, or even know anything about any issue. All they want to do is cause trouble, because they enjoy it and think it's "cool." They are the now-"adult" children of the hippies, undisciplined and coddled throughout their formative years. They have been taught that "nothing is wrong if it makes you feel good."

Funny how the number of demonstrators goes up with each favorable post, isn't it? :p

Also, I didn't know the DNC was sponsoring these events. Is that really true?

400,000 is what CNN reported..

No, I don't believe the DNC has any thing to do with the protesters, it's different groups from sea to sea.. liberals, church gowers, registered republicans against Bush.. anti-war.. you name it they are there. However with the diversity of the protesters it could help the DNC aka Kerry as long as it remains peaceful.. if the anarchists show up and cause trouble, I seriously doubt that will be blamed on any one.. given they support none of the above.

400,000 is what CNN reported..

No, I don't believe the DNC has any thing to do with the protesters, it's different groups from sea to sea.. liberals, church gowers [sic], registered republicans against Bush.. anti-war.. you name it they are there.

Strange, the New York Sun did an informal poll, and 80% of the demonstrators were from New York City or the immediate vicinity. And I doubt that church-goers would use the profanity eyewitnesses have stated about 1/3 of the signs contain.

I'm sorry, but this isn't the unified but diverse, nationwide, sea-to-shining-sea consensus that liberals wish it was.

Nobody really knows how many took part in the protests, since official counts of these things are not done. Anything reported by a news organization is just a guess.

2) The protesters behave like they did in 1968 at the DNC. Bush looks goodLet's see: protests at the Democratic National Convention in '68 doomed the Democratic candidate, but protests outside the Republican National Covention are also supposed to hurt the Democrats? I could see someone arging that ugly protests might hurt the Democrats, but the '68 comparision is ridiculously irrelevant. Moreover, the folklore is unfounded:

"Challenging a Media Myth: '68 Riots Didn't Doom Humphrey"
By Greg Mitchell
Editor & Publisher
Friday 27 August 2004

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/082904L.shtml

Massive convention protests are terribly embarrasing to the party in power. They signal massive anger and discontentment with the status quo. In 1968, the Democrats were the party in power. That is not the case today.

Strange, the New York Sun did an informal poll, and 80% of the demonstrators were from New York City or the immediate vicinity.Which should give you a guess at how enraged New Yorkers are that Bush is exploiting their 9/11 grief. I saw another poll saying that 11% of New Yorkers said they would definitely attend the protests. That is a lot of people.

And I doubt that church-goers would use the profanity eyewitnesses have stated about 1/3 of the signs contain.That's a guestimate right? I can tell you are pretty new at this. I have been going to various protests since the late eighties, and I can tell you that it is not uncommon to see protests containing both oldster church groups and potty-mouthed youngsters. The likelihood of diversity is even greater at massive protests like this since there are many very different events and actions taking place at once, so folks can pick and choose which ones are at their speed or on their particular issue.

Ron Reagan was intervieweing a guy for MSNBC and the police arrested him for no reason. Caught live. Get the truth before the NYP says the guy was using spray paint.


He WAS using a painting tool mounted on his bike you know. Even if that chalk was washable i have my doubts about its legality. And the police didnt necessarily know it wasnt permenant. After the WTO riots there were not insignificant cleanup efforts of permenant marks like that. I saw it in person.

The confiscation shouldnt be too much of an issue unless the items are not returned. On the last note the protestors should have known they were risking arrest, although most of the crowd may be peaceful demonstrations do attract troublemakers who ruin it for everyone else.

BTW, were those orders to exit the bike ride due to the police ordering out people who commited hostile acts?


Going past all this, i wish that person the best of luck with his case against the police, but i do feel he made a few exagerrations there, particularily in regards to the descrition of detainment in the bus station. If he has conclusive evidence he can probably get something out against the NYPD.

Nobody really knows how many took part in the protests, since official counts of these things are not done. Anything reported by a news organization is just a guess.

Ah, but sometimes it is telling whose guess it was. The organizers of the march on Sunday, United For Peace and Justice, estimated 500,000 -- and in Monday's coverage in the NEW YORK TIMES, they said that while the police department was not in the habit of attempting to guess, one or two officers on duty did report into the headquarters at the convention center that, yeah, it did look like a half-million people.

With one exception, the march was uneventful; and the one event (someone setting fire to their own float) was such a non-event that some people I spoke to who were IN the march had no idea that had even happened.

The group that did set fire to the dragon also appears to be behind some other mischief that happened that day, and some activity yesterday and today. At the march itself, only about 15 people were arrested; some more arrests were made after the march when a couple bunches of people started causing a ruckus in the hotel lobbies where conventioneers were staying, or harranging a bunch of delegates going to see a play. Meanwhile, most of the rest of the protestors went up to Central Park, even though the group had been denied the permit...some cops had also been sent up there just in case. And -- absolutely nothing happened. Some of the protestors had signs, some just sat around. Some played instruments. And the cops...just hung out, too. One admitted to a legal observer that yes, technically there was a rule that groups larger than 20 people required a permit, but they weren't going to enforce it.

I was talking to a friend - he said that there has been a group (called A31, I think) that had made terror threats to the RNC - I don't like that at all, no matter who I vote for

I was talking to a friend - he said that there has been a group (called A31, I think) that had made terror threats to the RNC - I don't like that at all, no matter who I vote for

I believe "A-31" is the group's name for the plan itself, to attempt to disrupt things today. I don't know if just one group is involved, but the name of at least one group associated with it is "Black Bloc."