NationStates Jolt Archive

Officials Ask Hamm to Give Up Gold Medal
2 hours, 48 minutes ago
By EDDIE PELLS, AP Sports Writer

ATHENS, Greece - World gymnastics officials were looking for a way out of the Paul Hamm medal mess. All they did was make more people mad. The president of the International Gymnastics Federation asked Hamm to give up his all-around gold medal.

This is old news.

Hamm won't give it up, and he shouldn't have to... the IGF is just trying to cover its butt for making a mistake. They suspended those three officials... and now, they're trying to make up for it by being "sportsman-like." What BS.

BTW... Hamm and the US have said he won't be giving it to anyone anytime soon.

"There is no doubt he [Hamm] has won the medal," [FIG president Bruno]Grandi said. "He deserves the medal and the ranking is clear. ... I respect totally Paul Hamm and all the decisions he makes. If he says give back the medal, I respect it. Don't give back the medal, I respect the decision. He is not responsible for anything."

Yang, the bronze medalist, was wrongly docked a tenth of a point on his parallel bars routine. If he had received the proper score, he would have won gold and Hamm would have won silver. Three judges were suspended, and FIG said the results would stand. [emphasis added]

[A review of Yang's routine later showed that he violated a rule, and that the judges should have subtracted .20 points from his score -- bringing into question whether he even deserved to win the bronze.]

From the AP wire story.

Someone needs to learn about context and how to use it to avoid being disingenuous.

I thought that was ridiculous. I watched it on the news about 2 hours ago.

....Hamm have said he won't be giving it to anyone anytime soon.

Hamm vows to give back gold if asked.
Sun Aug 22, 4:58 PM ET Add Sports - AFP to My Yahoo!

ATHENS (AFP) - Paul Hamm, the American gymnast whose Olympic men's all-around victory has been protested by South Korean officials, said he would give back his gold medal if International Gymnastics Federation (FIG) officials declare that is the proper course.

Hamm vows to give back gold if asked.
Sun Aug 22, 4:58 PM ET Add Sports - AFP to My Yahoo!

ATHENS (AFP) - Paul Hamm, the American gymnast whose Olympic men's all-around victory has been protested by South Korean officials, said he would give back his gold medal if International Gymnastics Federation (FIG) officials declare that is the proper course.

The president of FIG has said he will respect whatever Hamm's decision is, as quoted in my post above. This is hardly "declaring it is the proper course." (In other words, order or demand that he give his medal back.)

And the Korean may not have even deserved his bronze medal anyway. Also see the AP story I quoted above. I saw this on a replay on NBC and the Korean definitely violated the "three hold" rule.

The FIG has suspended the three judges involved, saying they incorrectly docked a 10th of a point from Yang's parallel bars routine in the final nine days ago. But it has said it has no mechanism to overturn the final standings.

The FIG has now gone a step further and written to Hamm to suggest he could return his medal, according to a letter released by the U.S. Olympic committee Friday.

"The true winner of the all-round competition is Yang Tae-young," the letter said.

"If ... you would return your medal to the Korean if the FIG requested it, then such an action would be recognized as the ultimate demonstration of fairplay by the whole world," said the letter signed by FIG president Bruno Grandi and dated August 26.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040827/ts_nm/olympics_gymnastics_usa_dc_14

Hamm vows to give back gold if asked.
Sun Aug 22, 4:58 PM ET Add Sports - AFP to My Yahoo!

ATHENS (AFP) - Paul Hamm, the American gymnast whose Olympic men's all-around victory has been protested by South Korean officials, said he would give back his gold medal if International Gymnastics Federation (FIG) officials declare that is the proper course.

That's not what the American news syndicates are reporting...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5839534/

... I saw this on a replay on NBC and the Korean definitely violated the "three hold" rule.
If There a FULL Video review on Hamm...Chances are he would lose more points too...

The president of FIG has said he will respect whatever Hamm's decision is, as quoted in my post above. This is hardly "declaring it is the proper course." (In other words, order or demand that he give his medal back.)

And the Korean may not have even deserved his bronze medal anyway. Also see the AP story I quoted above. I saw this on a replay on NBC and the Korean definitely violated the "three hold" rule.

Interesting. So there's a possibility that this is much ado about nothing?

What about the 0.2 deduction for the rule Yang violated?

What about the 0.2 deduction for the rule Yang violated?

Is this addressed to me? If so, I don't understand.

I can think of two times Americans have been screwed by the IOC (1972 Basketball, 1988 Roy Jones Jr.) and I am sure there are many more. If Hamm honestly believes he was beaten by the Korean, than he should give up the gold medal, but I doubt he does, so he should keep his Gold Medal.

What about the 0.2 deduction for the rule Yang violated?
The US team scrutinized Yang's Video to see if they can find "something"...Hamm's Video has not been used that way...not yet...

Interesting. So there's a possibility that this is much ado about nothing?

Absolutely. A "fair" review would require that all the judges review videos of every contestant in every event, to correct any and all scoring mistakes. This is probably why it is FIG policy not to change scores after the competition is concluded.

Is this addressed to me? If so, I don't understand.

No, it is addressed to those who hate Americans for winning.

Absolutely. A "fair" review would require that all the judges review videos of every contestant in every event..[/I]
I agree...Judges, Teams, and TV should have acces to the "tapes"...

And they should give Coaches a red flag...like in the NFL..

This is old news.

Hamm won't give it up, and he shouldn't have to... the IGF is just trying to cover its butt for making a mistake. They suspended those three officials... and now, they're trying to make up for it by being "sportsman-like." What BS.

BTW... Hamm and the US have said he won't be giving it to anyone anytime soon.

I agree with you here. He won the medal, and if the argument is "using instant replay we found [blah blah blah]", then I think the US response "but other instant replays show errors [blah blah blah]" is essentially the age old "you can't have your cake and eat it too".

The judging was terrible, but that isn't Hamm's fault.

No, it is addressed to those who hate Americans for winning.

Understood. Fight the good fight. ;)

Why can't they just hand out two? They did back in 2002, when that judge was taking bribes at the ice skating match.

No, it is addressed to those who hate Americans for winning.Hamm's Stupidity is costing all the other American Athletes...and it likely last more than one Olympiad....
All The Booings are going to disgrace and tarnish other more deserving Athletes...

I agree...Judges, Teams, and TV should have acces to the "tapes"...

And they should give Coaches a red flag...like in the NFL..

If you agree that all performances should be reviewed, and such a review has not taken place, then how can you demand Hamm give back the gold medal he won?

Why can't they just hand out two? They did back in 2002, when that judge was taking bribes at the ice skating match.

This would be a perfectly acceptable solution to me.

Hamm's Stupidity is costing all the other American Athletes...and it likely last more than one Olympiad....
All The Booings are going to disgrace and tarnish other more deserving Athletes...

Only in front of simple-minded, hate-filled crowds. Who cares? The deserving athletes will still win.

I agree with you here. He won the medal, and if the argument is "using instant replay we found ....Keep in mind that such a Video review was done only to Yang Tape...The naked Eye cant be always as good as Slow motion...

Hamm tape...if Video Reviewed...is likely reveal other minor stuff...

If you agree that all performances should be reviewed, and such a review has not taken place, then how can you demand Hamm give back the gold medal he won?At least the top 3 should be reviwed...we do urine tests already...remember?

Keep in mind that such a Video review was done only to Yang Tape...The naked Eye cant be always as good as Slow motion...

Hamm tape...if Video Reviewed...is likely reveal other minor stuff...

I hate to break it to you, but a 0.2 deduction in a gymnastics routine is not "minor."

At least the top 3 should be reviwed...we do urine tests already...remember?

No, what you're asking for is a "do-over." Sorry, there are no "do-overs" in the Olympics, for good reason.

Only in front of simple-minded, hate-filled crowds.Why do they hate us?

No, what you're asking for is a "do-over." Sorry, there are no "do-overs" in the Olympics, for good reason.what is a do-over?

Why do they hate us?

If by "us" you mean Americans, because we won and "their country" didn't. Simple as that.

I hate to break it to you, but a 0.2 deduction in a gymnastics routine is not "minor."whatever it was...it was not seen by the naked eye of the (suposedly) expert officials...
Slow motion Video replay did the trick....

whatever it was...it was not seen by the naked eye of the (suposedly) expert officials...
Slow motion Video replay did the trick....

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Now you want it both ways? The judges mistakenly took 0.1 from Yang, and he should get that back, but they mistakenly gave him 0.2 that he didn't deserve, and he should keep it?

whatever it was...it was not seen by the naked eye of the (suposedly) expert officials...
Slow motion Video replay did the trick....

Everyone in the competition was judged by the same sets of eyes.

If by "us" you mean Americans, because we won and "their country" didn't. Simple as that.So they hate us ...because we are better Athletes than them??? :headbang:

Everyone in the competition was judged by the same sets of eyes.I agree...

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Now you want it both ways? The judges mistakenly took 0.1 from Yang, and he should get that back, but they mistakenly gave him 0.2 that he didn't deserve, and he should keep it?

Yes, exactly. Glad you've finally seen the light. ;)

You wanna explain to him what a "do-over" is?

So they hate us ...because we are better Athletes than them??? :headbang:

Yes, it is called envy. It is a powerful emotion that will eat away at some people, when they let it.

I think the Russian in the horizontal bar routine was rorted, the whole crowd booed and rightly so!!

Anyway I havent seen the thing in question but if Yang should have been deducted 0.2 then he shouldnt win.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Now you want it both ways? The judges mistakenly took 0.1 from Yang, and he should get that back, but they mistakenly gave him 0.2 that he didn't deserve, and he should keep it?If it was that simple...They would not ask him to give it back...

*carving another medal... some drilling needed too*
can you be more pathetic? here, have this medal. Jebus, if I only knew NS was full of gymnastics judges, i'd never come here. I give this thread routine 0.2 though... just b'cos of the effort.
And this judge does not hate the USA... this judge hates sports where judges can hand out the medals.

You all don't have to be backing that rather (i'm sorry) gayish athlete not winning. i'm sure it is being dealt in the (biased) media.

I think the Russian in the horizontal bar routine was rorted, the whole crowd booed and rightly so!!

Anyway I havent seen the thing in question but if Yang should have been deducted 0.2 then he shouldnt win.

I totally agree. Nemov was robbed! His routine was by far the most difficult I have seen, and he did it very well, a couple minor mistakes, but nothing to warrant the score he was given. But no one here is crusading for Nemov's cause. Why not? Because the eventual winner of the gold medal is not an American, that's why.

Who cares? The deserving athletes will still win.Who cares?...the Athletes care...some Sports need more concentration than others...

For example you need to be focused...when you are passing the relay...

Jebus, if I only knew NS was full of gymnastics judges, i'd never come here. I give this thread routine 0.2 though... just b'cos of the effort.

LOL! Good one! :cool:

And this judge does not hate the USA... this judge hates sports where judges can hand out the medals.

Yes, but some of the best sports are that way. I don't want them to go away, and I don't think they will anytime soon. Besides, almost EVERY sport has some type of judging. Soccer, football, baseball, basketball, boxing...all of these have referees or umpires of some sort that make judgement calls.

Who cares?...the Athletes care...some Sports need more concentration than others...

For example you need to be focused...when you are passing the relay...

First of all, it's only true if you paint all athletes with the same broad brush.

Secondly, athletes at Olympic levels of competition are capable of tuning the crowd out and concentrating. If some boos or whistles or catcalls disrupt your game, you don't deserve to win Olympic gold.

...But no one here is crusading for Nemov's cause. Why not? Nemov was robbed...but there was not a Judging "Lapse"...

Nemov was robbed...but there was not a Judging "Lapse"...

HUH??? Then what do you call it?

HUH??? Then what do you call it?
Bad Judgement? :D

Actually I call it Highway Robbery...

IMO...He deserved the Gold and got nothing...

Bad Judgement? :D

Actually I call it Highway Robbery...

IMO...He deserved the Gold and got nothing...

His case is far more egregious than Hamm's. Yet you choose to come here and make a stink about Hamm, rather than defend Nemov. Why?

I give up... QueSera...Sera...

I defend any athlete who goes to throw discus with a bag of clean urine up his ass. Can't be easy. The dopers are the unsung heroes of these games!

His case is far more egregious than Hamm's.Yes it is....I want to get both of their medal and give them to Nemov :D

Hint...In Nemov case it was a case of Opinion...The Judges said they liked more FushiaGreen Than MidnigthBlue...

Even tho we all know that Blue is prettier than Green...we cant argue with their bad opinion...

Yes it is....I want to get both of their medal and give them to Nemov :D

Hint...In Nemov case it was a case of Opinion...The Judges said they liked more FushiaGreen Than MidnigthBlue...

Even tho we all know that Blue is prettier than Green...we cant argue with their bad opinion...
Well ther is one thing they should do...

Fire the Judges Supervisor..and all the people involved in The Judges selection(make sure they never get a Judgement Job ever again)...Introduce some form of Video Replay...

and never ever again hire a Judge that Works at the Same Gym that the Gold medalist...or even Works at the same Town...

Its sure to create controversy....

I defend any athlete who goes to throw discus with a bag of clean urine up his ass. Can't be easy. The dopers are the unsung heroes of these games!
LOL

Admittedly, I'm still surprised that no one has come out and said Nemov's scores were the result of a judging error. I don't pretend to know anything about the sport myself, but the announcers were pretty adamant that a score as low as the one Nemov got was "impossible" for the type of routine he did.

Of course, I've still got my theories that it was a Canadian-Malaysian conspiracy. Stupid Canadians and Malaysians ruin everything.

The irony of the situation is too perfect for words. (reffering to roy jones incident)

Ok, I better speak then. The issue was high-bar, right? Nemov clearly didn't love the bar... he let it it go 5-6 times, whereas the winner stuck to the metal and only left it a couple of times. The judges can judge who loves the bar more from this. The announcers in your telly know shit.

ok, did some searching and for the love me I cant find any mention of the supposed "tape review" of Yang's performance that would have led to a 0.2 deduction. Checked AP wire service, NBC, www.olympic.com.

Whoever mentioned this in the first place, could you please post a link, or at least give me a hint as to where I might find this so I could do some research on my own?

ok, did some searching and for the love me I cant find any mention of the supposed "tape review" of Yang's performance that would have led to a 0.2 deduction. Checked AP wire service, NBC, www.olympic.com.

Whoever mentioned this in the first place, could you please post a link, or at least give me a hint as to where I might find this so I could do some research on my own?

I saw this during NBC's Olympic coverage. The commentator was a former Olympic gymnast, so I have to defer to his knowledge of the rules. The rule is: during a parallel bars routine, the gymnast is allowed three "holds", or periods where he is not moving. On the videotape, the Korean gymnast clearly did four "holds." The commentator stated this is a mandatory 0.2 deduction.

I also read this in an AP-credited story on a news website, but I don't remember which one. Try Google news or NBCOlympics.com. However, I think the story may just have been referring to the NBC coverage.