NationStates Jolt Archive

Who gives a crap what peta says? If we weren't meant to eat animals then why are they made out of meat?
Actually...
Any dentist will tell you it's obvious we are supposed to eat meat. They're called canines (the tearing teeth) and they're meant for pulling meat off bones and such.

Actually...
Any dentist will tell you it's obvious we are supposed to eat meat. They're called canines (the tearing teeth) and they're meant for pulling meat off bones and such.

That doesn't make vegetarianism wrong, it just means we have a particular tool that can do a particular job. There is no requirement for us to use it in such capacity. It has been proven time and time again that meat is not necessary to a healthy life.

If you want to eat meat, fine. If you don't want to eat meat, fine. You can function perfectly normally either way.

The huge jump in brain size among hominids occurs at the same time that their diet changed to include meat. Some theorize that the higher calorie content in meat allowed for a bigger brain. The brain burns about 25% of your calories, if I'm not mistaken.

By wrong, I don't mean 1 =/ 2, and I don't mean immoral. What I mean by wrong is unnatural.

Everyone says vegetarianism is healthy. Cows are vegetarians, and they don't look too healthy on my plate.

Cows are vegetarains. Cow don't have canines.

By wrong, I don't mean 1 =/ 2, and I don't mean immoral. What I mean by wrong is unnatural.


It may be unnatural, but so are many things. It doesn't stop us, though.
This argument has been done to death, though, and I'm sure most of you have seen it before, so I won't elaborate unless asked to...

Personally I don't care if someone is a vegetarian but its the animal rights pukes they I hate. If they don't want to eat meat fine stay but don't tell me not to eat it. Steak and lamb are two of my favorite foods.
Is it true that me and opal are agreeing on somthing lol.

There isn't much to eloborate on from you, but I haven't seen this issue up here on these forums...so yea.

And I know you can get all the nutrients or whatever that you need from sources other than meat, it's just that...you've got those tearer teeth for a reason, and in fact, they're made so that they grow at about the same rate the chewing should deteriorate them, so you're actually probably damaging your body (not much, but some) by not eating meat...and there is no advantage (other than some supposed moral supremacy) to not eating meat...

the only thing that sucks about eating meat is that most meat is really unhealthy for you because of all teh steroids, sntibiotics and hormones they pump into it and the shitty way they treat the animals.

I don't think there is anythign wrong with eating meat. It's obviously natural for humans to have some meat in their diet. But there is nothign wrong about being a vegetarian.

mean proteins are not needed to gain mass. look at what some of the largest creatures on earth eat.

mean proteins are not needed to gain mass. look at what some of the largest creatures on earth eat.
Whales aren't vegetarians. -err, from what I remember they aren't...they eat a small amount of fish along with plankton and other sea plants...probably sea monkeys too...and pirates.

...you've got those tearer teeth for a reason, and in fact, they're made so that they grow at about the same rate the chewing should deteriorate them...

Really?

Really?
Sarcasm? Curiousity? ...what does "Really?" mean?

What's the actual point to this thread? There doesn't seem to be an actual debate.

Not that General threads are always full of wondrous discussion, but it just seems to me that this particular thread was meant to have a point, and I don't see it.

Sarcasm? Curiousity? ...what does "Really?" mean?

It means that I do not believe your statement concerning 'tearer' teeth is correct.

Whales aren't vegetarians. -err, from what I remember they aren't...they eat a small amount of fish along with plankton and other sea plants...probably sea monkeys too...and pirates.


I didn't say thee largest. I said "some of the largest"... elephants for example... or giraffes. My only point about that was that animal proteins are not necessary for gaining mass.

Are you trying to claim otherswise? Or did you just pick whales and leave out others to be argumentative?

Vegetarianism isn't wrong; if someone wants to do it, so be it. Who are we to say it's right or wrong when obviously vegetarianism doesn't kill someone.

Or did you just pick whales and leave out others to be argumentative?
Yes.

Who are we to say it's right or wrong when obviously vegetarianism doesn't kill someone.
How many plants did you kill to make your salad?

And I don't consider animals "someone," and we're not talking about canabilism...

Who cares.
Mind off my plate, please.
I'll eat whatever I'll find tasty.

I get the impression that some meat-eaters would rather that vegetarianism actually DID kill people.

I never personally see vegetarians tellign meat eaters they are wrong or immoral or even bitching about people eating meat. But I always see meat eaters taling shit about vegetarians. It's pretty ridiculous. Not all emat eaters are that way but being a vegetarian gets you lots of discriminatory remarks while being a meat eater does not.

So shut the hell up meat eaters. If you don't want to be a vegetarian then don't. Noone is forcing you to become one. Stop pestering vegetarians! :mp5:

It means that I do not believe your statement concerning 'tearer' teeth is correct.
Teeth are deteriorated. That's how cavities form. If teeth aren't detoriated at all, they will overgrow. Did you ever wonder why it's all or none when it comes to wisdom teeth? It's because teeth don't really have limited growth and without the top teeth to hold back the bottom (or vice versa) the remaining wisdom teeth will grow too far (causing even more pain).

I get the impression that some meat-eaters would rather that vegetarianism actually DID kill people.

I never personally see vegetarians tellign meat eaters they are wrong or immoral or even bitching about people eating meat. But I always see meat eaters taling shit about vegetarians. It's pretty ridiculous. Not all emat eaters are that way but being a vegetarian gets you lots of discriminatory remarks while being a meat eater does not.

So shut the hell up meat eaters. If you don't want to be a vegetarian then don't. Noone is forcing you to become one. Stop pestering vegetarians! :mp5:


I've personally only heard it the other way - vegetarians (or vegans, more commonly) screaming murder at meat eaters.

Opal Isle, you knew exactly what I meant and instead of responding in a mature and knowledgeable way, you try to make me - and everyone else, for that matter - look like we're less smart than you.

If we weren't meant to eat strictly meat, not eating it would starve parts of our body to death, and those that practice vegetarianism would die.

Plants don't matter; they aren't people and as such, they aren't sentient beings, thus, they don't have "rights" nor "feelings" nor anything else that makes "killing" them worthy of any of our time.

By your logic, if we're "killing" plants, and we're "killing" animals, then, I guess we should all starve to death and not eat anything.

I was a vegan for about 2 1/2 years, not for any "moral" reasons but just to try it to see if it was really healthier. (And because it's a lot cheaper!) I must say I did feel better, had more energy, etc. when I wasn't eating meat.

Then I was done in by that demon...bacon. :)

I get the impression that some meat-eaters would rather that vegetarianism actually DID kill people.

I never personally see vegetarians tellign meat eaters they are wrong or immoral or even bitching about people eating meat. But I always see meat eaters taling shit about vegetarians. It's pretty ridiculous. Not all emat eaters are that way but being a vegetarian gets you lots of discriminatory remarks while being a meat eater does not.

So shut the hell up meat eaters. If you don't want to be a vegetarian then don't. Noone is forcing you to become one. Stop pestering vegetarians! :mp5:
It's called PETA.

If the P stood for Plants, meat eaters don't have a META or any organized anti-veg group, whereas vegs do.

By your logic, if we're "killing" plants, and we're "killing" animals, then, I guess we should all starve to death and not eat anything.
Only the people who are tied down by things like morality, because like it or not, plants are animals are living things. So, if you really want to take the moral highground, chew on a brick.

Yes.


should have known.

eat what you want and I will eat what I want. thats how I see it. I do hate to see animal cruelty though. I don't think that it is a moral high ground. I just feel sad for all the pain that innocent creatures have to endure when we are supposedly a more evolved race with the ability to make life easier on the animals we are eating, and I will speak against it because it's something I don't like to see.

Well, like I corrected myself on the first page, the title means Vegetarianism is wrong as in unnatural. I'm not trying to make this an argument about who is right or who is wrong or whatever. I want to see if anyone can show that vegetarianism is natural and meat eating is not.

Only the people who are tied down by things like morality, because like it or not, plants are animals are living things. So, if you really want to take the moral highground, chew on a brick.

I didn't say I was taking the moral high ground. I like my meat and my plants. I just pointed out the flaw in your logic.

Teeth are deteriorated. That's how cavities form. If teeth aren't detoriated at all, they will overgrow. Did you ever wonder why it's all or none when it comes to wisdom teeth? It's because teeth don't really have limited growth and without the top teeth to hold back the bottom (or vice versa) the remaining wisdom teeth will grow too far (causing even more pain).

Your statements here seem to refer to all kinds of teeth, not just the canines (which also occur in some herbivores such as deer).


Are you suggesting that vegetarians don't use their canines?


EDIT: replaced 'incisors' with 'canines', originally written as a result of a brainfart.

It's called PETA.

If the P stood for Plants, meat eaters don't have a META or any organized anti-veg group, whereas vegs do.

I don't belong to PETA nor do I know anyone in the group... I was sayign personally.

Since you have seem to have no idea what it's like to be a vegetarian your comments mean nothing. But I have been a meat eater and a vegetarian and I can tell you noone has ever talked shit to me for eating meat but I get it constantly as a vegetarian.

PETA has done some stupid things and I don't condone any practice of theirs except to try to ease the suffering of the innocent animals being farmed in brutal conditions.

I didn't say I was taking the moral high ground. I like my meat and my plants. I just pointed out the flaw in your logic.
Which in reality wasn't flawed, unless you will say that plants are not living (before they are murdered).

I don't belong to PETA nor do I know anyone in the group... I was sayign personally.

Since you have seem to have no idea what it's like to be a vegetarian your comments mean nothing. But I have been a meat eater and a vegetarian and I can tell you noone has ever talked shit to me for eating meat but I get it constantly as a vegetarian.

PETA has done some stupid things and I don't condone any practice of theirs except to try to ease the suffering of the innocent animals being farmed in brutal conditions.
And I was pointing out that there is an anti-meat-eater group whereas there is no corresponding anti-plant group, which points out the reasons vegetarians get the moral high ground.

Oh and by the way, to the bolded part, I dated a vegetarian who has two sisters who are vegetarians, one of her sisters is married to a huge Italian family of vegetarians (and I happen to know and be pretty good friends with a lot of those people too), so...eh, yea.

Well, like I corrected myself on the first page, the title means Vegetarianism is wrong as in unnatural. I'm not trying to make this an argument about who is right or who is wrong or whatever. I want to see if anyone can show that vegetarianism is natural and meat eating is not.

I've never seen anyone on these boards claim that meat eating was unnatural (if they ahve then I disagree with them). Vegetarianism is natural though because the human body although omnivoric can be fully sustained on a vegetarian diet.

From Ron White's comedy routine:
"A buddy of mine's a vegetarian. He told me that cows emit methane and that it's contributing to global warming. 'So what are you doing about global warming?' Well, I'm eating a cow."

I just say screw any animal rights groups. We ought to be more concerned with feeding hungry people and improving the quality of life than with animals (unless they're being killed for no damn reason or too much).

I guess we should all starve to death and not eat anything.


:D We could all eat rocks!!!






( :rolleyes: )

Your statements here seem to refer to all kinds of teeth, not just the canines (which also occur in some herbivores such as deer).


Are you suggesting that vegetarians don't use their canines?
I am stating that the canines of vegetarians do not get as much wear and tear as a meat-eater, and if a vegetarian completely avoided using those teeth (or a meat-eater), oral problems would result.

Why can't we just eat what we want to eat and leave it at that? It's pointless to discriminate by eating habits, or to even argue about it.

I've never seen anyone on these boards claim that meat eating was unnatural (if they ahve then I disagree with them). Vegetarianism is natural though because the human body although omnivoric can be fully sustained on a vegetarian diet.
Human life can be sustained in outer space living of synthesized and dehydrated foods, is that natural, or livable?

I'm vegetarian. And no, it's not 'natural', but this computer I'm sitting at isn't enormously natural either, so it's not really an issue that I think needs to be raised.
I don't scream blue murder at meat eaters, my choice is my choice, and it is perfectly possible now to eat a healthy, balanced diet without consuming meat, if a person wants to.

I am stating that the canines of vegetarians do not get as much wear and tear as a meat-eater, and if a vegetarian completely avoided using those teeth (or a meat-eater), oral problems would result.

Do you have any evidence for your claim that canines of vegetarians get less wear than those of a meat-eater? Given the fact that nearly all meat consumed in the world is cooked rather than chewed raw off a carcass I fail to see how eating meat would generate any more wear and tear than eating plant matter.

It's called PETA.

If the P stood for Plants, meat eaters don't have a META or any organized anti-veg group, whereas vegs do.


Plants for the Ethical Treatment of Animals? :rolleyes:

oohh.. i know! let's make META! Meat for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.

...that's gonna happen.. :rolleyes:

FYI, someone can be a member of PETA and still eat meat, as long as the animal they're eating was raised and killed in a humane way.

Do you have any evidence for your claim that canines of vegetarians get less wear than those of a meat-eater? Given the fact that nearly all meat consumed in the world is cooked rather than chewed raw off a carcass I fail to see how eating meat would generate any more wear and tear than eating plant matter.
1) How many vegetarians eat ribs or chicken?
2) Meat is tougher than plant matter.

And I was pointing out that there is an anti-meat-eater group whereas there is no corresponding anti-plant group, which points out the reasons vegetarians get the moral high ground.

Oh and by the way, to the bolded part, I dated a vegetarian who has two sisters who are vegetarians, one of her sisters is married to a huge Italian family of vegetarians (and I happen to know and be pretty good friends with a lot of those people too), so...eh, yea.

http://saveplants.faithweb.com/

^^^^ --- people for the ethical treatment of plants.

well then what is your problem with vegetarians with this Vegetarianism is unnatural thread?
Did you see the kind of scrutiny that your gf got when you were dating her? well if her whole family was vegetarians maybe not... but neither mine or my gf's family is vegetarian and we got get a lot of shit from not only them but servers at restaruants, friends, the king of town... you name it...

I always notice that vegetarians just look unhealthy.
Someone on campus has the bumper sticker:
"VEGETARIANISM. Ancient term for bad hunter."

1) How many vegetarians eat ribs or chicken?
2) Meat is tougher than plant matter.
meat is really easier on the teeth than plant matter. Elephants, for example, often die when they wear their molars away and become unable to eat. Tigers, on the other hand keep a nice set of pearly whites throughout their lives.

2) Meat is tougher than plant matter.

false

Why can't we just eat what we want to eat and leave it at that? It's pointless to discriminate by eating habits, or to even argue about it.

Opal Isle already exclaimed that he just wanted to be argumentative.

Her whole family wasn't vegetarians. Her parents were smarter than that. And I gave her shit about it all the time because she didn't have any reason at all. (None, and I kid you not.)

By the way, this thread isn't about convincing vegetarians to stop eating meat, this thread is a more scientific question about meat eating being natural...I never gave my ex any shit about being a vegetarian just because she didn't eat meat, only because she didn't have a reason.

I always notice that vegetarians just look unhealthy.
Someone on campus has the bumper sticker:
"VEGETARIANISM. Ancient term for bad hunter."
LOL

The way I feel about eating meat--and why I continue to do so--is that yes, although other creatures are dying to sustain me (plants do die as well, I should mention), I will eventually die as well. By giving my body back, where it will eventually decompose to feed other plants and creatures, I'll make up for what I've taken.

The way I feel about eating meat--and why I continue to do so--is that yes, although other creatures are dying to sustain me (plants do die as well, I should mention), I will eventually die as well. By giving my body back, where it will eventually decompose to feed other plants and creatures, I'll make up for what I've taken.
Ah...the meat cycle...

1) How many vegetarians eat ribs or chicken?
None. Your point being?

2) Meat is tougher than plant matter.

No it isn't.

None. Your point being?How many meat-eaters do you know that do the same?

No it isn't.
I took the wrong biology class.

By the way, this thread isn't about convincing vegetarians to stop eating meat, this thread is a more scientific question about meat eating being natural...

Question #1: Why did you call the thread "Vegetarianism = Wrong" then?

Question #2: Has anyone of import or anyone on this forum recently claimed that eating meat is unnatural?

Human life can be sustained in outer space living of synthesized and dehydrated foods, is that natural, or livable?

oh, have you proof of this? Has someone been raised their entire life on synthetic foods and lived a healthy life? Vegetarians eating natural plant life which we were meant to eat and livign a helathy life sure sounds nautral to me. Tell me how that is not natural or can in any REASONABLE way be compared to yoru example of a human life in space living off synthetic foods.

1) How many vegetarians eat ribs or chicken?
2) Meat is tougher than plant matter.


I eat vegetarian ribs and vegetarian chicken

and its not true that meat is touger than plant matter my dear friend

Actually...
Any dentist will tell you it's obvious we are supposed to eat meat. They're called canines (the tearing teeth) and they're meant for pulling meat off bones and such.

For the last time, humans are omnivorius, but we're meant to eat more vegetables than meat. Any nutritionist will tell you this : we're not supposed to have a big arse stake and a little bit of vegetables. We're supposed to have a decent sized stake and a lot of vegetables/fruits/nuts blah blah.

And there are other ways to get the nutrients needed from meat.

Vegetarianism is not wrong; it is a person's choice to do so, and we meat eaters must accept this.

Question #1: Why did you call the thread "Vegetarianism = Wrong" then?
Look up "wrong" in a dictionary.

How many meat-eaters do you know that do the same?

That eat ribs or chicken? Most of them, I guess. You point being?


I took the wrong biology class.

Huh?

For the last time, humans are omnivorius, but we're meant to eat more vegetables than meat. Any nutritionist will tell you this : we're not supposed to have a big arse stake and a little bit of vegetables. We're supposed to have a decent sized stake and a lot of vegetables/fruits/nuts blah blah.

And there are other ways to get the nutrients needed from meat.

Vegetarianism is not wrong; it is a person's choice to do so, and we meat eaters must accept this.
Where is the post where I said humans are meant to be carnivores? I can't find it, but I know I posted it...can someone help me out? Please?

Seriously, this post was pointless as I didn't ever specify how much meat humans should eat...

Any nutritionist will tell you this : we're not supposed to have a big arse stake and a little bit of vegetables. We're supposed to have a decent sized stake and a lot of vegetables/fruits/nuts blah blah.



Yeah, that's why the Atkins diet puts you in Ketosis.
I always thought there was something incredibly wrong with a diet where you can eat an entire stick of butter, but bananas are forbidden..

I don't like talking to people like they are children (unless of course, they really are), so I guess I'll just find a new thread or something since the point of this thread is halfway between lost and undiscussable.

This is an amazingly long and dynamic thread considering it has absolutely nothing to say.

I just say screw any animal rights groups. We ought to be more concerned with feeding hungry people and improving the quality of life than with animals (unless they're being killed for no damn reason or too much).

A little statistic for you. From one acre of land, you can produce ten metric tons of grain, rice or similarly vegetarian produce. From the same size piece of land, you can produce only one metric ton of beef.
Therefore, the most efficient way to feed everyone on the planet would be to maximise food production. Therefore, in the name of feeding all the starving people, vegetarianism is the way to go.

Now, I know some of you are going to yell at me for this, so let me elaborate a little further. I don't care if you want to eat meat. Go right ahead. I'm vegetarian and proud of it, and significantly healthier than a lot of the meat-eaters I see (many of whom are grossly overweight, with clogged arteries and serious heart problems), but I would not deny someone else the right to eat meat if they wished to do so.

The thing I object to is that modern meat producing industry is excessively cruel to the animals. It creates suffering almost for the sake of suffering, and much of the meat from the animals is wasted anyway. That is why I do not eat meat; I boycott it because it is inhumane.

Eating plants is different; it is incredibly difficult to abuse or maltreat a plant, save for not watering it. And if you are going to grow plants for eating, you will take care of them. The only care taken for meat animals is that they always have plenty of eat, so they get fat. No care is taken for their living space to allow them space to move, and most of the time, they are killed in incredibly cruel and painful ways. Animals may not be as self-aware as we are, but that does not affect the fact that they can feel pain.

Also, as an additional note, although humans have teeth that can tear and chew meat, it was a very rare event that primitive humans ate meat at all. It would be a once or twice a month event, rather than every day. From that point of view, most days a human would be vegetarian, and eat meat when available.

A little statistic for you. From one acre of land, you can produce ten metric tons of grain, rice or similarly vegetarian produce. From the same size piece of land, you can produce only one metric ton of beef.
Therefore, the most efficient way to feed everyone on the planet would be to maximise food production. Therefore, in the name of feeding all the starving people, vegetarianism is the way to go.

Now, I know some of you are going to yell at me for this, so let me elaborate a little further. I don't care if you want to eat meat. Go right ahead. I'm vegetarian and proud of it, and significantly healthier than a lot of the meat-eaters I see (many of whom are grossly overweight, with clogged arteries and serious heart problems), but I would not deny someone else the right to eat meat if they wished to do so.

The thing I object to is that modern meat producing industry is excessively cruel to the animals. It creates suffering almost for the sake of suffering, and much of the meat from the animals is wasted anyway. That is why I do not eat meat; I boycott it because it is inhumane.

Eating plants is different; it is incredibly difficult to abuse or maltreat a plant, save for not watering it. And if you are going to grow plants for eating, you will take care of them. The only care taken for meat animals is that they always have plenty of eat, so they get fat. No care is taken for their living space to allow them space to move, and most of the time, they are killed in incredibly cruel and painful ways. Animals may not be as self-aware as we are, but that does not affect the fact that they can feel pain.

Also, as an additional note, although humans have teeth that can tear and chew meat, it was a very rare event that primitive humans ate meat at all. It would be a once or twice a month event, rather than every day. From that point of view, most days a human would be vegetarian, and eat meat when available.
But abusing the animals makes them taste better.

Ktrenal--I'm not thrilled about the cruelty to the animals I eat, myself. But rather than stop eating meat, what I would want is to find options to prevent them from suffering before they died. The only thing that bothers me is I don't know of very many groups interested in that sort of thing who don't also espouse vegetarianism (as I believe PETA does--they aren't an option for me). Are you aware of anything like that out there?

But abusing the animals makes them taste better.

There are other ways to make things taste better.

And abusing animals, because they are weaker than us, makes us nothing more than cowards, and poorer so-called sentient beings because of it. 'You can tell the measure of a man by how he treats those smaller and weaker than himself', it has been said.

Are you aware of anything like that out there?

Compassion In World Farming is one, I believe Humane Farming Association is another.

And abusing animals, because they are weaker than us, makes us nothing more than cowards, and poorer so-called sentient beings because of it. 'You can tell the measure of a man by how he treats those smaller and weaker than himself', it has been said.

In most cases I would say that a cow is stronger than a human...

Will this debate concerning wrong/unnatural never end?

As a vegetarian (lacto, over 9 years) I have borne the brunt of this form of discussion from omnivores and vegans alike.

Generally speaking (there are exceptions, don't take this as 100% blanket) omnivores rail on vegetarians for a variety of reasons, the big two being it's unnatural and unhealthy. Both points are incorrect. While Western civilization consumes large volumes of meat at this point in time (which there has been a significant shift in the percentage of the western diet which is comprised of meat since the industrial revolution...) there are plenty of cultures which do not. eg Jains, vairous Buddhist sects, etc.

Now beyond that, not only do lacto-vegetarians like myself get clobbered by a majority of the omnivore population, we also get railed on by the VEGAN population for having the audacity to eat cheese or put milk in my coffee.

To both populations I say back off and let me eat my tofu and drink my lattes in peace. Stop trying to force steak down my throat or make me give up my cheese. It only makes me cranky.

Compassion In World Farming is one, I believe Humane Farming Association is another.

Thank you, I'll have a look at their websites and report on what I find.

Ktrenal--I'm not thrilled about the cruelty to the animals I eat, myself. But rather than stop eating meat, what I would want is to find options to prevent them from suffering before they died. The only thing that bothers me is I don't know of very many groups interested in that sort of thing who don't also espouse vegetarianism (as I believe PETA does--they aren't an option for me). Are you aware of anything like that out there?

In this country (UK), the RSPCA, in addition to caring for wildlife and people's pets, also devotes a great deal of funds to try to encourage the better treatment of meat animals.
It's because of their actions that in this country it's now possible to buy chicken that has been reared in a free range environment, or else in a large barn. Instead of three chickens crammed into a cage the size of a phone book.
Such chicken is, of course, more expensive. I suppose that is why many producers refuse to treat their animals humanely, because it would drive up the price of meat.
But then, being vegetarian in this country is very expensive. Our food bills are easily 50% higher now that we eat entirely vegetarian products; fruit, veg, as well as soya and myco-protein.

In most cases I would say that a cow is stronger than a human...

Physically stronger, yes, but a cow is not a predator, and has little ability to defend itself, especially considering that a cow's horns, if it has any, are generally removed.

Actually...
Any dentist will tell you it's obvious we are supposed to eat meat. They're called canines (the tearing teeth) and they're meant for pulling meat off bones and such.

Actually most dentists do not have a particualrly good grounding in evolutionary biology - trust me I know, because I've quizzed them on various aspects of the subject. The short answer, is yes, humans can eat meat, BUT, not a hell of a lot of it. That is, if you wish to stay healthy over the long term.

We actually do not really need to eat meat to survive, that much is obvious. Although eating meat makes it convenient to acquire proteins, iron and phosphates.

Here are some other aspects and other anatomical details why humans are predominently vegaterians. Humans are omnivores, but with a predisposition to herbivory.

1 - Our masseter muscle (used in chewing) is more developed than our temporal (the prominent jaw closing muscle in carnivourus mammals). Actually, I do not think humans possess a temporal muscle at all (if memory serves).

2 - We are able to rotate our jaws - again a herbivourus trait not generally seen in carnivours.

3 - Our incisors are large in proportion to our canines - a herbivourus trait.

4 - Humans possess four cusped molers that are relatively flat. Carnivores possess slicing "carnissal" teeth that opperate somewhat like a scissors.

5 - Humans in general need to eat fairly often to maintain optimal physical and mental preformance - again a herbivourus trait. Larger carnivours eat less often, but in large portions/meals.

6 - Our liver is not well adapted for expelling large amounts of animal cholestoral - unlike a carnivores liver.

7 - The human digestive system (stomach intestinal tract etc...) resembles a herbivours as opposed to a carnivores. Plant matter requires a more extensive gut to break down plant cellulose, fibers etc... Ever wonder why herbivorous animals are in general, bulkier?

8 - Our closest relatives, the apes, are predominently herbivourus.

I am sweet.

Any dentist will tell you it's obvious we are supposed to eat meat.

Actually most dentists do not have a particualrly good grounding in evolutionary biology - trust me I know, because I've quizzed them on various aspects of the subject.

Do we actually have a real live dentist on NS that we could ask to see what they actually say (rather than just assuming that they will react in a particular way as OI seems to have done)?

Do we actually have a real live dentist on NS that we could ask to see what they actually say (rather than just assuming that they will react in a particular way as OI seems to have done)?

*does the inevitable by standing up and shouting "Is there a Dentist in the house?" *

In most cases I would say that a cow is stronger than a human...
Actually I'm as strong as a bull. A rather undersized, weak bull.

Compassion in World Farming (UK)

http://www.ciwf.org.uk/

Humane Farming Association (US)

http://www.hfa.org/

Both of these look quite interesting. Thanks!

Humans are omnivores, end of story. In my opinion it is just good to have a healthy balance of both, not too much meat and vice versa. Besides, I eat my meat, and I have great hair...[/sarcasm]

Actually...
Any dentist will tell you it's obvious we are supposed to eat meat. They're called canines (the tearing teeth) and they're meant for pulling meat off bones and such.
At the same time while we do have canine teeth, if you look at our intestinal track we shouldn't be omnivores. It is longer, meant for fruits, nuts and vegetables. Meat stays too long, decomposing and releasing toxins into the blood stream.

Actually...
Any dentist will tell you it's obvious we are supposed to eat meat. They're called canines (the tearing teeth) and they're meant for pulling meat off bones and such.
Our digestive tract is also such that it works well with both meat and plants.

Then there's the ability of the liver to sythesize glucose from meat proteins. That right there kills the notion that "humans are meant only to eat plants".

most people in north america eat too much meat anyways. you don't actually need 3 servings a day and so you know, too much is bad for you.


aside from that: vegetarians taste better ;)

also, it has been theorized that humans are omnivores in the same way that rats and racoons are omnivores. we'll eat what we can get.

8 - Our closest relatives, the apes, are predominently herbivourus.

I'm guessing you've never heard of chimps and other apes chasing down smaller monkeys and eating them?

The human digestive system also differs severly from an herbivores stomach. Compared to cows, for example, we do not chew a cud, we don't have 4 stomachs, and we can't consume nearly as wide a range of vegetable material.

The way I see it our system is best compared to a bear. We are capable of eating meat, and should do so. But we are also capable of sustaining ourselves on vegetable matter. Going to either extreme isn't healthy. I've done the research, and despite what vegans may say, they have a shorter life span than a balanced omnivore. There are protiens that you can't get anywhere but from meat sources. The same is true of hardcore carnivores. There are vitamins and minerals that can't be obtained anywhere but from plant sources.

So argue all you want, but I'll be enjoying chicken/vegetable stir-fry and laughing at you all.

most people in north america eat too much meat anyways. you don't actually need 3 servings a day and so you know, too much is bad for you.
I eat a shitload of meat. But then, I'm doing Atkins. And I feel great.

I'm guessing you've never heard of chimps and other apes chasing down smaller monkeys and eating them?.

As I've said - predominantly herbivorous, I never claimed completely herbivorous. The majority of the great apes are either vegetarains or mostly so. I am aware that chimps eat monkey's and partake in canibalism.

The human digestive system also differs severly from an herbivores stomach. Compared to cows, for example, we do not chew a cud, we don't have 4 stomachs, and we can't consume nearly as wide a range of vegetable material.

But it has more simularities, sinse the intestinal tract of humans is long. Also our digestive acids or not nearly as strong as a typical carnivores. Also not all herbivores have multiple stomachs.

The way I see it our system is best compared to a bear. We are capable of eating meat, and should do so. But we are also capable of sustaining ourselves on vegetable matter. Going to either extreme isn't healthy. I've done the research, and despite what vegans may say, they have a shorter life span than a balanced omnivore. There are protiens that you can't get anywhere but from meat sources. The same is true of hardcore carnivores. There are vitamins and minerals that can't be obtained anywhere but from plant sources.

So argue all you want, but I'll be enjoying chicken/vegetable stir-fry and laughing at you all.

This last portion of your post is extremly debatable. I've heard the opposite regarding lifespans of vegetarians. By the way, you can obtain all your protiens from vegatable based sources. I also eat meat as well, just not that steroid infested, hormone, dyed crap. I have access to wild game meat. Once you've tasted it there is no going back.

I eat a shitload of meat. But then, I'm doing Atkins. And I feel great.

i'm not talking short term effects.

there are people suing over the adverse effects of the aitkin's diet now. they've been on it for a couple of years (i suppose they jumped on before it got trendy) but yeah, there are a lot of problems that can happen when you consume too much protein.

There are protiens that you can't get anywhere but from meat sources.

false. you can get all the amino acids you need from plants. you just have to mix them up. i.e. if you consume corn and rice, you have whole protein, just the same as if you ate meat or an egg. hell, you don't even have to eat them at the same meal.

Hmm, I only wanted to point out that there is only one reason that the average vegetarians is healthier than the average meat-eater.

To be a vegetarian and get all the proper nutrients so you do not take severe health risks, you absolutely must pay very close attention to what you eat. If it was easier to ignore completely what you eat and still be a vegetarian, we would probably see more unhealthy and overweight vegetarians. If you're eating meat however, there is less risk of extremely severe medical problems to occur by ignoring your diet. This carelessness quite obviously leads to problems like obesity, but never any problems like protein deficiency...

To be a vegetarian and get all the proper nutrients so you do not take severe health risks, you absolutely must pay very close attention to what you eat. If it was easier to ignore completely what you eat and still be a vegetarian, we would probably see more unhealthy and overweight vegetarians. If you're eating meat however, there is less risk of extremely severe medical problems to occur by ignoring your diet. This carelessness quite obviously leads to problems like obesity, but never any problems like protein deficiency...

actually, no. i'm vegetarian and i don't pay attention at all. i eat a wider variety of foods than when i ate meat, but i don't sit there and keep track of the amino acids i consume and really, i grab an egg every so often to be certain i'm getting them all. (i eat lots of wheat products anyways, so i get my iron) and yeah, i'm perfectly healthy, my iron count is still within normal, healthy ranges even right after my menses (they schedule the blood donor clinics right afterwards...) and i only get tired when you know, i've been out doing things or up for a long amount of time. i'm stronger than i used to be (my job involves quite a bit of lifting) and such. i have more endurance than a number of omnivores i know... *shrugs* and most importantly, i feel fine.

if you're vegan, you have to watch out though.

Oh, and by the way, another explanation is that an overwhelming majority of people are meat eaters, so simple statistics also explains why more meat eaters are unhealthy...

which is why you should go on percentages rather than number of people.

i know my sister was unhealthy as a vegetarian, but she spent two weeks eating nothing but french fries. that would make anyone sick.

(they were deep fried french fries... not that potatos have much in them other than startch to start with)

i'm not talking short term effects.

there are people suing over the adverse effects of the aitkin's diet now.
No, there are people who did something wrong and blamed it on Atkins. I know people who've done it for 2-5 years, and have no problems at all. In fact, their "bad" cholesterol is down, blood pressure down, weight down.

Actually...
Any dentist will tell you it's obvious we are supposed to eat meat. They're called canines (the tearing teeth) and they're meant for pulling meat off bones and such.

Im a carnivor for the most part the only time ill eat salad is when it has italian dressing on it. MEAT EATING ALL THE WAY AND DOWN WITH THE MILITARISTIC VEGITARIANS!

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/85/98824.htm?lastselectedguid={5FE84E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}

Many people who have jumped on the high-protein/low-carb bandwagon think that they can pack away as much protein as they like. But nutrition experts urge caution. The reasons why have to do with how high-protein/low-carb diets are thought to lead to weight loss. When people eat lots of protein but few carbohydrates, their metabolisms change into a state called ketosis. Ketosis means the body converts from burning carbs for fuel to burning its own fat. When fat is broken down, small bits of carbon called ketones are released into the bloodstream as energy sources. Ketosis, which also occurs in diabetes, tends to suppress appetite, causing people to eat less, and it also increases the body's elimination of fluids through urine, resulting in a loss of water weight.

Christopher D. Gardner, PhD, assistant professor of medicine at Stanford University in Palo Alto, Calif., tells WebMD that high-protein diets like the Atkins regimen may trade short-term benefits for long-term health consequences. Among the risks: The body produces ammonia when it breaks down protein. No one knows the long-term risks of higher levels of ammonia in the body.

Also, there is evidence to suggest that people who eat high-protein diets typically excrete excess calcium in their urine, says Deborah Sellmeyer, MD, assistant professor of medicine and director of the Center for Osteoporosis at the University of California at San Francisco. This suggests that the body is releasing stores of calcium into the bloodstream to counteract an increase in acids caused by protein consumption (calcium buffers, or neutralizes, acids). Too much calcium loss could lead to osteoporosis down the road, Sellmeyer says.

Lastly, there are the obvious concerns. Carbohydrate foods shunned by some people on low-carb diets include fruits and vegetables, which are the best sources for vitamins, fiber, and antioxidants -- nutrients that help prevent disease. By contrast, animal foods that are high in protein are usually also high in saturated fats, which increase the risk for heart disease, stroke, diabetes, and several types of cancer.

The American Heart Association warns: "Reducing consumption of [carbs] usually means other, higher-fat foods are eaten instead. This raises cholesterol levels even more and increases cardiovascular risk." The AHA also notes that by concentrating on protein sources and skipping carbs, dieters may be getting too much salt, and not enough calcium, potassium, or magnesium, which are typically found in fruits, vegetables, and whole grains.

excess protein is suspected in prostate, colon cancers, diabetes, kidney problems, osteoperosis et c. too much is not good for you.

also, you hav eto find a diet suspicious when the founder dies of a fall after a heart attack.

if you're vegan, you have to watch out though.

Not as much as you might think: at least no more thought is required than in a common omnivorous diet.




(Vegan for 15 years with no ill effects.)

Vegetarianism doesn't concern me.

But I do have an odd question that needs answering: Why are there so many vegetarian products that look and 'taste' like meat? Vegetarian hamburgers, veggie cheese, veggie pepperoni, veggie bacon, veggie sausage, even vegetarian chickenish nuggets! Isn't it odd for vegetarians to want meat-substitutes instead of vegetables?

Vegetarianism doesn't concern me.

But I do have an odd question that needs answering: Why are there so many vegetarian products that look and 'taste' like meat? Vegetarian hamburgers, veggie cheese, veggie pepperoni, veggie bacon, veggie sausage, even vegetarian chickenish nuggets! Isn't it odd for vegetarians to want meat-substitutes instead of vegetables?

Why should we be denied experiencing a burger just because we're vegetarian? Most veggie burgers don't taste like meat, BTW. It's like saying salads were made for vegtarians, why are you making chicken breast salads, etc.? ;)

I've been a ( eggs/dairy ) vegetarian for all 15 years and 8 months ( to the day! I can begin driving in a month! ) of my life, my mom raised me as one because she didn't want me to catch any of the meat-specific diseases.

I'm still healthy, I just get my protein from nuts and fish, not meat and poultry.

Mmm... Tuna. :D

Where is the post where I said humans are meant to be carnivores? I can't find it, but I know I posted it...can someone help me out? Please?

Seriously, this post was pointless as I didn't ever specify how much meat humans should eat...

You said vegetarianism is wrong, which simply isn't true. Isn't that the title here?

We've beat this topic down a billion times. Please let it die.

eat what you like. FULL STOP. why discuss such subjects of personal preference??

Im a carnivor for the most part the only time ill eat salad is when it has italian dressing on it. MEAT EATING ALL THE WAY AND DOWN WITH THE MILITARISTIC VEGITARIANS!

lmfao! point out one militaristic vegetarian on this thread

Vegetarianism doesn't concern me.

But I do have an odd question that needs answering: Why are there so many vegetarian products that look and 'taste' like meat? Vegetarian hamburgers, veggie cheese, veggie pepperoni, veggie bacon, veggie sausage, even vegetarian chickenish nuggets! Isn't it odd for vegetarians to want meat-substitutes instead of vegetables?

simple answer? raised as a meat eater and miss the taste and its nice to have a variety.

and there are tons and tons of different kinds of fake meats. most of the best ones come from asia (see VEGEUSA). i have fake shrimp... fake crab... fake lobster... fake cod fillets... kung pao/ginger/spicy chicken... beef chunks... bbq pork... bbq ribs... citrus spareribs... stuffed vegetable buns... and on and on

There isn't much to eloborate on from you, but I haven't seen this issue up here on these forums...so yea.

And I know you can get all the nutrients or whatever that you need from sources other than meat, it's just that...you've got those tearer teeth for a reason, and in fact, they're made so that they grow at about the same rate the chewing should deteriorate them, so you're actually probably damaging your body (not much, but some) by not eating meat...and there is no advantage (other than some supposed moral supremacy) to not eating meat...

I'm not sure if I'm getting this right... but will I have longer canines if I don't eat meat? I might consider vegetarianism... heh heh

But abusing the animals makes them taste better.
No it doesn't. That's why even fish farms are introducing a captive bolt system for killing their fish. The stress on the animals causes their meat to fall apart. If you're eating poorly treated animals, you're eating inferior meat. The only reason farms treat those animals so poorly is because it's cheaper than taking proper care of them.

No it doesn't. That's why even fish farms are introducing a captive bolt system for killing their fish. The stress on the animals causes their meat to fall apart. If you're eating poorly treated animals, you're eating inferior meat. The only reason farms treat those animals so poorly is because it's cheaper than taking proper care of them.


Perhaps youve heard of veal?

Or Pat'e Grois?

Milk-fed calf, and fatty liver?

Very abused animals.

Very tasty flesh.

My Ten Favorite Foods (in no particular order)

1.Beef Jerky
2.Sausage
3.Bacon
4.Hot Dog
5.Steak
6.Hambuger
7.Fish Taco
8.Carne Asada
9.Fried Chicken
10.Grilled Chicken

I just say screw any animal rights groups. We ought to be more concerned with feeding hungry people and improving the quality of life than with animals (unless they're being killed for no damn reason or too much).
Problem here is that in the Western world, we use something like 15 pounds of grain to 'grow' 1 pound of beef.
So which is more efficient in dealing with hungry people? Meat or Vegetarism?

Admitedly freshly killed steak with soya sauce is delicious. One of my favourite foods.
BTW when I say freshly killed, I mean raw.

Problem here is that in the Western world, we use something like 15 pounds of grain to 'grow' 1 pound of beef.
So which is more efficient in dealing with hungry people? Meat or Vegetarism?

That's true. If America became 100% veg, we'd be able to feed the entire world with food to spare. Plus, meat is a less efficient way of getting protein. Meat is very little more than a luxury.

We already have more than enough food to feed the world. There's no production problem, the problem is with distribution. Walk into any major American city and try to not get smacked in the face by a walking skin-sack of pure lard.

We already have more than enough food to feed the world. There's no production problem, the problem is with distribution. Walk into any major American city and try to not get smacked in the face by a walking skin-sack of pure lard.

Yeah, that's true. But our zeal to create meat is seriously damaging the eviornment. The fact that veggies require less effort and energy to grow means that the land and environment in general will be in better shape.

That's true. If America became 100% veg, we'd be able to feed the entire world with food to spare. Plus, meat is a less efficient way of getting protein. Meat is very little more than a luxury.

but its so tasty

but its so tasty

It's a shame, I don't remember the comic's name. But his take on meat-eating is the best one I've heard yet.

"Those vegitarians are always going to be unhappy. Because they have to realize something for the rest of their vegitable-eating lives: eggplant tastes like eggplant. But meat tastes a whole lot like murder. And murder tastes pretty damn good..."

Very funny stuff. He also suggested having interviews with animals to decide which ones are worth protesting for.
What are you sir?
I'm a sea otter!
What do you do sir?
I do cute human things in the water!
You're free to go. Carry on.

What are you sir?
I'm a cow!
GET IN THE TRUCK!
HEY I'VE GOT RIGHTS!
GET IN THE DAMN TRUCK!

I enjoyed the bit in 'Restaurant at the end of the Universe' when they get to meet the animal before it's killed and he tells them which bits are the nicest. Arthur Dent is appalled even though it's pointed out that is it better to eat something that probably didn't want to end it's life that way.
Hmm maybe this is where that German cannibal guy got his ideas from. Perhaps they should send Douglas Adams to jail.

Another thing - sure the Asians might live really long and be really healthy cause they don't eat red meat, but have you seen what they look like when they're old? Shrivelled-up tiny crooked little things. I'm living in HK and I've yet to see a sprightly one, like my grandfather who was still working his 1/2 acre plot up til he died at 93. No illness, no osteo, always ate meat.

I'm living in HK and I've yet to see a sprightly one, like my grandfather who was still working his 1/2 acre plot up til he died at 93. No illness, no osteo, always ate meat.

No offense but I hear that all the time. "Oh, my grandmother only ever ate raw meat and chicken heads. She lived until she was 112." No one ever said it wasn't possible.

It's a shame, I don't remember the comic's name. But his take on meat-eating is the best one I've heard yet.

"Those vegitarians are always going to be unhappy. Because they have to realize something for the rest of their vegitable-eating lives: eggplant tastes like eggplant. But meat tastes a whole lot like murder. And murder tastes pretty damn good..."

Very funny stuff. He also suggested having interviews with animals to decide which ones are worth protesting for.
What are you sir?
I'm a sea otter!
What do you do sir?
I do cute human things in the water!
You're free to go. Carry on.

What are you sir?
I'm a cow!
GET IN THE TRUCK!
HEY I'VE GOT RIGHTS!
GET IN THE DAMN TRUCK!

I do believe the comic you are quoting is George Carlin. Funny guy :).

Im a carnivor for the most part the only time ill eat salad is when it has italian dressing on it. MEAT EATING ALL THE WAY AND DOWN WITH THE MILITARISTIC VEGITARIANS!

Sounds like a militaristic meat eater to me.

I wish that all the meat eaters, not singling out anyone, had a better knowledge of what exactly they're talking about, rather than talking out their ass. For the most part, I believe that vegetarians/vegans have their facts straight or at least moreso. Whether the change in eating habits is a result of a question of morality, or a health issue, at least they have a reason (Again, I generalize, though I don't deny that a few/bunch might follow it like it's the popular thing to do.) I'm just sick of all these threads that start based on bad information. Like eating meat? Fine; I don't and I don't hassle meat eaters (Correction: I only counter-hassle, seeing as quite frequently my brother/father say something dumb with absolutely NO facts to back up their claims ie "Dude, you aren't getting enough protein...Dude, you're gonna get sick...".)

I don't claim to "know it all". Get that through your head before you attempt to bend my words to prove me wrong. I don't eat meat/dairy/eggs for health reasons and because I don't understand while in this day and age where we can spare the lives of innocent animals by making alternative foods that we don't (Yes, they exist but (1) everyone doesn't eat them and (2) they aren't as widespread as you'd think.) (Referring to convenience foods: garden burgers, etc..., otherwise, alternative food has always been available)

Though it hasn't been brought up yet I thought I'd tackle it. I don't deny that meat tastes good. I was brought up on meat, my first 18 years of life consisted of a diet of many cheeses/meats.

Just because you CAN eat something all your life, doesn't mean it's good for you. (Referring to meat).

Eat to live, don't live to eat.

So I guess it all comes down to...
No it's not unnatural...
Meat eaters just love to bust our chops.

Im happy if people want to torture themselves eating vegetables all their lives. But me? Give me a big steak, Big Mac, bacon bit, anyday! I know it will kill me! Ino it will clog my arteries! But goddam, did I really want to live to be 70 anyway???

"By living like this you're missing importants things, you'll probably get sick and it goes against nature!"

Fucking homophobes, I'm sick of this, I'll kill the lot of ya!






Oops, forgot where I was. And what side I'm on.

Right, I eat meat and liver, except pork, I eat vegetables, pulses, grain, fruit and yeast extract, I eat fish and fish derivatives(i.e. oyster sauce and fish sauce). These all give me vitamins I need, and I want to know where I get Vitamin B12 in the plant kingdom, please help me out.

Proteins: Right, let's kill this now. Proteins are made up of chemicals called amino acids. Despite the impression some people have, the human body does not assimilate animal proteins wholesale, it breaks them down into amino acids first or just burns the shit. Pulses and Grain will give you all the amino acids you need quite nicely, and if you're that worried gobble down raw eggs. Free range, of course.

B Vitamins: Most are present in plants, except for Vitamin B 12, which is an essential vitamin. Also, if you want a good hit of B vitamins, eat liver, not meat, you also get a good hit of iron. Most liver produced by the meat industry is wasted anyway, so I don't see how you can argue a moral cost. People bitch about the smell of liver, but they bitch about the smell of fish, too. Both are caused by improper storage and not having fresh produce.

Cruelty to animals: Makes the meat taste like tofu, stop it. Foie gras? The cheapest way is the nastiest, but you can just feed the goose a richer meal than usual(But never as rich by body weight as a good and proper fry-up). Same goes for veal, the cruelest way is the cheapest and therefore the most popular. Anyway, if you're not bitching about factory chicken, you can shut up about it.

Feeding the world: Veg is more efficient, ask your grandparents how much meat they ate before the the war. You don't need as much as get- that's all of you, as an average. Explore www.meatlessmonday.com for yourselves, but feast your ogles on this snippet, found by clicking Healthy Living and General Nutrition:

TOO MUCH MEAT, PROTEIN AND SATURATED FAT
In 2002, per capita meat consumption in the U.S.
hit a record high of 220 pounds per year, providing almost twice the recommended amount of protein - along with a large serving of unhealthy saturated fat. Saturated fat, found mainly in meat and high-fat dairy products, has no known health benefits.


TOO FEW FRUITS, VEGETABLES, WHOLE GRAINS
Most Americans eat only half the recommended number of servings of fruits and vegetables. Although brightly colored vegetables and whole grains should be the base of our diet, starchy potatoes and refined carbohydrates are the overwhelming favorites.


MEATLESS MONDAY - A STEP TO A HEALTHIER DIET
As dietary guidelines change, one recommendation remains the same: eat less saturated fat. The Meatless Monday campaign encourages Americans to take a step towards a healthier diet by moving the meat off their plate to make room for healthy alternatives.

Per capita, Americans get twice as much protein as the recommended amount. As a European I won't claim the high ground, we're most likely damn close, but people in general get too much protein relative to the scientifically determined required amount.

Oh, and whoever posted that long quote of scientific evidence against the Atkins diet, I won't believe the rest of science in that, since it referred to ketones as "bits of carbon". Anyone who's studied chemistry past the point you have to, a hopefully most high/secondary school leavers, will agree with this Chemistry Principal student that that casts serious doubt on the science of the whole essay. I'm not convinced the Atkins diet works to well or healthily, especially given the drastic and sudden effect it's supposed to have, but I'd prefer to see a counter argument that stands up to basic scrutiny and doesn't smack of a cut+paste job.

And before someone flags up getting vitamin B12 from yeast extract, that's not a plant.

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/85/98824.htm?lastselectedguid={5FE84E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}
The article assumes that all carbs are removed. tsk. Shows how much the "doctor" knows.

excess protein is suspected in prostate, colon cancers, diabetes, kidney problems, osteoperosis et c. too much is not good for you.
Then why are there healthy people who have done atkins for a couple years?
also, you hav eto find a diet suspicious when the founder dies of a fall after a heart attack.
And yet you didn't know that he had a gland problem? tsk. So much for your ad hominem fallacy.

excess protein is suspected in prostate, colon cancers, diabetes, kidney problems, osteoperosis et c. too much is not good for you.

Then why are there healthy people who have done atkins for a couple years?



Note the word 'suspected'.

Maddox is right, you vegetarians suck. I encourage everyone else who agrees to sponsor a vegetarian today. (http://maddox.xmission.com/sponsor.html)

And proof that the vegetarians/vegans don't have the moral high ground can be found here: http://maddox.xmission.com/grill.html

Physically stronger, yes, but a cow is not a predator, and has little ability to defend itself, especially considering that a cow's horns, if it has any, are generally removed.
What better animal to eat than one that can't even defend itself. Just sitting there...eating my grass...get on my plate, you!

I love eating meat. I don't care if it makes my heart explode later on in life - at least I had some good grub. And if I live to old age, whoopdy-do, I doubt I'll want to hang around this planet that long anyway. I'm a firm believer in doing what makes you feel good, and not taking shit from anyone about your choices (this applies to both sides).

And to anyone who supports PETA (especially for reasons like dog pounds putting dogs "to sleep" and the like), they have at their headquarters a large freezer which was built for one of two reasons: to store meat (obviously not) or cadavers. That's right, folks, PETA has put thousands of animals "to sleep." So go ahead and be a vegetarian and order your burgerless cheeseburger (my girlfriend actually orders that from fast food places), but say no to PETA!

:)

i'm not talking short term effects.

there are people suing over the adverse effects of the aitkin's diet now. they've been on it for a couple of years (i suppose they jumped on before it got trendy) but yeah, there are a lot of problems that can happen when you consume too much protein.


yeah.. dr atkins died of a heart attack (or something heart-related) because of all th red meat and fat he ate