NationStates Jolt Archive

My father sent me this in my email and I figured I share it with you guys. Guess I'll be showing my true colors. I am prepared for the flames. Bring it on!

http://s3.invisionfree.com/Elysian_Isles/index.php?showtopic=212

{Edit} I didn't post it because I thought it would be too long :(

Isn't it easier to just post it?Father/Daughter Heart to Heart

A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat and had grown to be in strong favor for the distribution of all wealth in America. She felt deeply shamed that her father was a rather staunch conservative which she expressed openly.
One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and more welfare programs. In the middle of her heart felt diatribe based upon the lectures she had from her far left professors at her school, he stopped her and asked her point blank how she was doing in school.

She answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain. That she had to study all the time, never had time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend and didn't really have many college friends because of spending all her time studying. That she was taking a more difficult curriculum.

Her father listened and then asked, "How is your friend Mary." She replied, "Mary is barely getting by", she continued, "all she has is barely a 2.0 GPA" adding, and all she takes are easy classes and she never studies."

But to explain further she continued emotionally, "But Mary is so very popular on campus, college for her is a blast, she goes to all the parties all the time and very often doesn't even show up for classes because she is too hung over."

Her father then asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your 4.0 GPA and give it to her friend who only had a 2.0." He continued, "That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair equal distribution of GPA."

The daughter visibly shocked by the fathers suggestion angrily fired back, "That wouldn't be fair! I worked really hard for mine, I did without and Mary has done little or nothing, she played while I worked real hard!"

The father slowly smiled and said, "Welcome to the Republican Party."

The problem is that hard work and natural talent isn't always the key to wealth and success. Many people succeed because of family connections, and charisma. Many others slave away at lousy jobs and get just enough money to stay alive. I'm not saying everyone should be compensated equally. I'm just saying that some slight redistribution of wealth through taxation is not such a huge burden on the wealthy, and a significant boon to the poor.

*Snore*

Rather simplistic arguement.

An obvious reply would be to ask why the average company President made 10 times more then the average worker 20 years ago and today they make 500 times more then the average worker.

The wealthy pay a great deal of income tax. It's all the other taxes they get loop holes and what not.

Even the shrubs "tax relief" you saw the steady pattern of increases as people made more then when a certain amount is made a huge leap in refunds.

And in addition to that, you can graduate with 2.0. Democrats aren't communists. The suggested situation is communism essentially. A more accurate representation of the wishes of the Democratic part would be if her friend had a 1.5 and she asked the Dean to take 0.5 off her 4.0 to give to her friend to bring her up to a 2.0...

mmm pie

*cuts a slice out of the logical fallacy pie of wonders*

The problem is that hard work and natural talent isn't always the key to wealth and success. Many people succeed because of family connections, and charisma. Many others slave away at lousy jobs and get just enough money to stay alive. I'm not saying everyone should be compensated equally. I'm just saying that some slight redistribution of wealth through taxation is not such a huge burden on the wealthy, and a significant boon to the poor.

Exactly. Give the poor and middle class more money and they will dump it back into the economy(ie purchases).

Exactly. Give the poor and middle class more money and they will dump it back into the economy(ie purchases).

So you would agree with totally doing away with the income tax and resorting to a larger sales tax? To me that seems like a pretty reasonable idea. Therefore, the more you can afford, the more you buy and the more you are taxed. But then that's just MHO.

So you would agree with totally doing away with the income tax and resorting to a larger sales tax? To me that seems like a pretty reasonable idea. Therefore, the more you can afford, the more you buy and the more you are taxed. But then that's just MHO.
Bad Idea. There are things that everyone must buy. Food, Clothing, medicine, etc. Taxing these things would be like forcing the poor to pay income tax. Currently if you are very poor you pay no income tax in the USA.

Bad Idea. There are things that everyone must buy. Food, Clothing, medicine, etc. Taxing these things would be like forcing the poor to pay income tax. Currently if you are very poor you pay no income tax in the USA.

True. Unless of course we have some type of money stamps for poor where they can exchange money at a bank for non-taxable stamps.

Would stocks be part of a sales tax? If not then I see this highly illogical as the rich pour lots of money into stocks. An income tax would get the money from the rich, and they could still buy reasonable stocks. A sales tax wouldn't do nearly as well since rich people pour TONS into the stock market.

We are talking about taxes that help the poor too. It's government waste that sucks.

Bad Idea. There are things that everyone must buy. Food, Clothing, medicine, etc. Taxing these things would be like forcing the poor to pay income tax. Currently if you are very poor you pay no income tax in the USA.

True Joey, but there are many americans who don't qualify for the income tax exemption given to the very poor and have a hard time making ends meet. Cutting the income tax out of the equation would make it easier for these people. Medicine could still be covered by insurance and by government funded programs. Of course every plan or proposal leaves things to be desired and people WILL always fall between the cracks. There is no perfect proposal. Some type of program could be worked out to help those very poor people.

True Joey, but there are many americans who don't qualify for the income tax exemption given to the very poor and have a hard time making ends meet. Cutting the income tax out of the equation would make it easier for these people. Medicine could still be covered by insurance and by government funded programs. Of course every plan or proposal leaves things to be desired and people WILL always fall between the cracks. There is no perfect proposal. Some type of program could be worked out to help those very poor people.
oh please, does everyone not realise killing income tax cuts BILLIONS if not more out ofthe governments budget, not only are we going to lose GOOD programs, because you and i both know they cut funding for good programs first, they are going to have to find some OTHER way to get money, up goes the sales tax and property tax and more

oh please, does everyone not realise killing income tax cuts BILLIONS if not more out ofthe governments budget, not only are we going to lose GOOD programs, because you and i both know they cut funding for good programs first, they are going to have to find some OTHER way to get money, up goes the sales tax and property tax and more

Thats that point Chess. You cut out the Income tax and you only tax people on what they buy and own. People will take home more money and will get taxed on what they spend. There's no way around sales tax, but there are tons of ways around Income Tax. There are lots and lots of loop holes for wealthy to exploit.

Lemme say something (not like you have the choice)

Okay, I'm from a middle class family, I suppose... Although we are being pushed into poverty due to things out of our control. I can even buy new supplies for school that I need and such. I'm trying not to make this a sob story, but I'm also trying to paint a picture here. Anyway, my older brother is living with his newly wed wife in an apartment on the wrong side of town. They already have two kids... Lets just say he made some bad decisions... real bad ones. Anyway, he asks my family for money all the time. All. The. Time. And occasionally, we try to give it to him... When I was 11, he stole my gameboy and pawned it because he was desperate. You know what he used the money on? A People Magazine. I was 11 and swore I would never forgive him. 11. Anyway, he has eppilepsy (sp?) and needs medication so he won't have seisures. So we gave him the money once for his medicine since he was out. He used the money on buying a playstation (which also makes his seisures occur) and some games. Well, we learned a bit, and started buying the stuff for him. So he when he asked for money to buy groceries, we try to get his shopping list and buy them for him. Now I'll go back to our situation. Although we aren't as bad as he, we do have money problems, and are working on keeping our stomachs full on generic stuff. You know how it is, right? When your a kid, you would kill for Kraft Mac and Cheese, but you get that Save brand. Although your parents tell you there is no difference, you know there is. Anyway, my point is that some people take advantage of you, no matter what. You can even be their family. They take advantage of the Government the same way. And there will be people like that. But there are also people like us who don't take advantage of the government and work as hard as we can. We are teachers, some of us, who are teaching your children. And our government won't pay us enough money to raise our own kids on. Of course, that does depend on state. Anyway... here is my little story. you can take it and run with it or you can leave it to rot.

Thats that point Chess. You cut out the Income tax and you only tax people on what they buy and own. People will take home more money and will get taxed on what they spend. There's no way around sales tax, but there are tons of ways around Income Tax. There are lots and lots of loop holes for wealthy to exploit.
Why is a sales tax better than closing income tax loopholes? Wouldn't it be regressive to tax the poor?

Thats that point Chess. You cut out the Income tax and you only tax people on what they buy and own. People will take home more money and will get taxed on what they spend. There's no way around sales tax, but there are tons of ways around Income Tax. There are lots and lots of loop holes for wealthy to exploit.
you are NOT getting it

people are not gonna go out and blow all their money because htey have more, especially all the people who are barely getting by as it is. you cant just take away income tax because MONEY DISAPPEARS, something has to be done to get the money back, sales taxes and property taxes will RISE

I think perhaps you misunderstand my statement and I do see now that I may have not been clear in the statement. The point of getting rid of the income tax would be raising the sales tax. And its not going to solve everything. Coming from a lower middle class family, I just find a higher sales tax/property tax as opposed to income tax as favorable because we live within our means. We buy the store brand mac and cheese and the store brand cola and things like that so that we can save a bigger portion of our paychecks so that if something (god forbid it) should happen that we are strapped for cash we have that extra money.

Joey, please don't automatically assume that something that isn't progressive is regressive.

cute.

I think perhaps you misunderstand my statement and I do see now that I may have not been clear in the statement. The point of getting rid of the income tax would be raising the sales tax. And its not going to solve everything. Coming from a lower middle class family, I just find a higher sales tax/property tax as opposed to income tax as favorable because we live within our means. We buy the store brand mac and cheese and the store brand cola and things like that so that we can save a bigger portion of our paychecks so that if something (god forbid it) should happen that we are strapped for cash we have that extra money.

Joey, please don't automatically assume that something that isn't progressive is regressive.
Regressive is a term commonly applied to tax structures that place an unusually heavy burden on the poor.

If her friends life was at risk if her GPA wasn't at a certain level, don't you think she'd be more open to it?

People need money to live.

Why does there HAVE to be a right and wrong when it comes to property.
Social ownership is one philosophy that works in some ways and not in others.
Capitalism works in some ways and not in others.
I worked very hard for what I have and have no intention of sharing any of it with any but my family(my right in our society).
However just because I dont desire socialised society doesnt mean I begrudge/or am better then anyone who does.
There are no perfect systems, the perfet one will feed everyone/stimulate our minds/care for our bodies/respect our belief(collective and individually) leaving us all happy to be governed as such.
As far as know that system doesnt exist yet, so who is anyone to say someone elses flawed system is inferior to another flawed system.
Through unity, solidarity, and peaceful interaction we will move forward to utopia.

Wow that last line was really swiss and cheddar.