NationStates Jolt Archive


"Russia now has a Sept. 11."

Drabikstan
27-08-2004, 06:44
Top Russian Official: Plane Terror Likely

Top Russian Official Concedes Terrorism Likely Cause of Downed Airliners

The Associated Press

MOSCOW Aug. 26, 2004 — A top Russian official acknowledged Thursday what many citizens already suspected that terrorism was the most likely cause of two jetliners crashing minutes apart, a feeling reflected in a newspaper headline warning that "Russia now has a Sept. 11."
A day after officials stressed there were many possibilities besides terrorism, presidential envoy Vladimir Yakovlev told Russia's ITAR-Tass news agency that the main theory "all the same remains terrorism."

Yakovlev said the planes' flight recorders provide no clues to the disaster. He said both boxes had shut off abruptly without any indication of trouble, a sign U.S. aviation experts said was strong evidence of explosions.

Also, Transport Minister Igor Levitin confirmed Sibir airlines' report that its crew activated an emergency signal shortly before the plane disappeared from radar. Visiting the crash site, however, he said that details were slim because "no verbal confirmation from the crew was received" saying what the problem was.

Officials previously said there was no indication of trouble from a Volga-Aviaexpress airliner that also crashed late Tuesday, although people on the ground reported hearing a series of explosions.

Russian media also raised questions about a possible link between the crashes and an explosion a few hours earlier at a bus stop on a road leading to Domodedovo airport, where the two doomed planes took off. Without citing evidence, the reports suggested the blast, which wounded four people, might have been an effort to distract attention.

Suspicions of terrorism came after warnings from officials that separatists might plan attacks before an election this Sunday in Chechnya to replace the war-torn region's assassinated pro-Kremlin president. The rebels have made attacks in Moscow and other cities, hijacked planes outside Russia and allegedly staged suicide bombings.

"I am inclined to think that it is a terrorist act, because there are too many coincidences," said Ruben Suryaninov, an elderly retiree. "What needs to happen so that two planes going from the same airport would bang at the same moment?"

"It's too suspicious," agreed Natalia Kozhelupova, a physicist who was out on a national day of mourning for the 89 people killed in the crashes. Russia's tricolor flag flew at half-staff and television canceled entertainment programs.

Despite Yakovlev's statement about terrorism, the government was still officially investigating all possibilities bombs, hijackers, mechanical failure, bad fuel and human error. Officials said no evidence had been found pointing to terrorism, and no one has claimed to have caused the crashes.

The government had hoped the jetliners' flight data recorders would shed some light, but Yakovlev told state-run First Channel that experts found the boxes in both planes shut off before indicating any problems.

Yakovlev, the president's envoy for southern Russia, where one of the planes crashed, said the recorders "turned off immediately" an indication "that something happened very fast."

Bill Waldock, aviation safety professor at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Arizona, said a sudden stoppage of a plane's two recorders indicates that its electrical system was cut. "An explosion could interrupt electrical power," he said, adding that it was extremely unlikely that another problem would cause four boxes in two planes to quit abruptly.

If something went wrong with a plane's mechanical or electrical systems, "more protracted data would show up," Waldock said. The cockpit voice recorder would pick up pilots' conversations as they dealt with the problem, while the flight data recorder would note such information as altitude, air speed, heading and vertical acceleration.

Peter Goelz, a former managing director of the National Transportation Safety Board, also said the abrupt shutoffs mostly likely point to explosions. But raised the possibility that the recorders weren't working properly.

"Given that Russian regional aviation has never been known for its maintenance standards, it would not surprise me that the FDRs and CVRs were not working correctly, if at all," Goelz said.

The planes a Sibir Tu-154 with 46 aboard and a Volga-Aviaexpress Tu-134 with 43 people disappeared from radar almost simultaneously around 11 p.m. Tuesday. The Tu-134 was headed to the southern city of Volgograd and the other plane to the Black Sea resort city of Sochi, where President Vladimir Putin was vacationing. They had taken off about 40 minutes apart.

A government commission appointed to investigate traveled Thursday to the site where the Tu-134 crashed, about 120 miles south of Moscow. Emergency crews had already completed their work there, but others continued to check the wreckage of the Tu-154 a few hundred miles south.

"There is still no clear-cut concept of what occurred, because the procedure of deciphering the data recorders will be conducted more than once," Levitin, the transport minister and head of the commission, was quoted as saying by ITAR-Tass.

Oleg Panteleyev, an independent aviation expert in Russia, said that just because no clear evidence of terrorism had been found, didn't mean that wasn't the cause.

Any other explanation "seems to be purely impossible," he told The Associated Press. "But then again, absolutely incredible things can happen in life."

Many ordinary Russians have ingrained doubts about the government's candor after the confused and contradictory reports on the sinking of the nuclear submarine Kursk in 2000 and the still-murky 2002 seizure of a Moscow theater by Chechen rebels.

"I never trust what the authorities are saying, but in this case, I don't know it could have been an accident or a terrorist act," said Yevgeny Skepner, a 37-year-old computer programmer.

Still, Pavel Felgenhauer, an independent military analyst who is often critical of the government, said Moscow would have nothing to gain in covering up a terror attack.

"For the companies, the aviation industry, society and Russia as a whole, it would be better ... because otherwise it means that things are really bad here we have bad planes that crash to the ground one after another," he said. "The fact that it is not being called a terrorist act, means they have no such evidence ... because hiding a terrorist act is impossible."

Panteleyev disagreed. "To miss such a major terrorist act for the security services means to acknowledge their impotence," he said.
Johnistan
27-08-2004, 06:46
Amazing

Maybe They Should Invade Some Shitty Country And Kill Everyone!!
The Black Forrest
27-08-2004, 06:48
Hmph.

It doesn't follow protocol.

Nobody claimed responsibility for it.
Hajekistan
27-08-2004, 06:49
They just got jealous of the U.S. 9/11 and wanted one for themselves, those crazy Russians!
But, whatever it was, I am completely sure that there is sientific evidence linking it the evil Bushies.
Drabikstan
27-08-2004, 07:06
Maybe They Should Invade Some Shitty Country And Kill Everyone!! Well, that could be closer than you think:

Russia, Georgia face war over separatist provinces (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1093344467693&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968705899037)
TrpnOut
27-08-2004, 07:22
Amazing

Maybe They Should Invade Some Shitty Country And Kill Everyone!!


They already are, its called chechnya.
Maestropolis
27-08-2004, 07:56
Russia should invade Central Asia and the Middle East, then devastate the homeland of those terrorists.

If the United States did attack Middle East, why Russia don't want to? :mp5: :sniper: :mp5:
Dalekia
27-08-2004, 08:01
If the United States did attack Middle East, why Russia don't want to?
I bet they'd like to. They just can't, but give 'em a few years with a healthy military budget.
TrpnOut
27-08-2004, 08:43
I bet they'd like to. They just can't, but give 'em a few years with a healthy military budget.

god id almost be afraid of that one, next thing youll have the left center middle east, and the right center middle east, one ruled by russia, the other by america......sounding more and more like germanys past.
Tygaland
27-08-2004, 08:57
They already are, its called chechnya.

Last I heard, Chechnya was a part of Russia seeking to separate.
TrpnOut
27-08-2004, 09:32
Last I heard, Chechnya was a part of Russia seeking to separate.

yes and they keep fighting, guerilla style war fare with the russians.
I wouldnt be surprised if these plane downings had to do with chechnya.

so in other words i didnt mean russia would invade a country, i more meant that chechnya would prolly feel this more then any otehr place.
EvilGnomes
27-08-2004, 09:50
If the United States did attack Middle East, why Russia don't want to? :mp5: :sniper: :mp5:

I thought they did?
didn't they invade years ago to settle the terrorist problems in the middle east?

As I remember it the US got worried about Russia siezing control of the middle east, so they funded and trained Al-Quida (however it's spelt) to oppose the Russians.

that's what I remember anyway.
Tygaland
27-08-2004, 11:12
I wouldnt be surprised if these plane downings had to do with chechnya.


That is a distinct possibility.
TrpnOut
27-08-2004, 11:54
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37608-2004Aug27.html


apparently they found explosive traces.
There was a chechen lady on the flight, who is the only one who hasnt had family call up and find out whether she was ok.
A terrorist group linked to al qaida claimed responsibility on friday and said it was for " russias fight agains chechnya"

I KNEW it was the chechnyens

No offense to any peaceful chechnyens here.
The Holy Word
27-08-2004, 11:55
Russia should invade Central Asia and the Middle East, then devastate the homeland of those terrorists.
There's been a country that's been harbouring IRA fundraisers for years. Do you think Britain should invade and devastate it?
Vitania
27-08-2004, 12:29
I wouldnt be surprised if these plane downings had to do with chechnya.

Oh no, it wasn't them. This was all cleverly orcestrated by the Russian government in order to go to war with Kalmikya to get their oil supplies!
Tygaland
27-08-2004, 12:29
There's been a country that's been harbouring IRA fundraisers for years. Do you think Britain should invade and devastate it?

No, Ireland should be reunified instead.
Tygaland
27-08-2004, 12:30
Oh no, it wasn't them. This was all cleverly orcestrated by the Russian government in order to go to war with Kalmikya to get their oil supplies!
:D
Superpower07
27-08-2004, 12:37
They just got jealous of the U.S. 9/11 and wanted one for themselves, those crazy Russians!

They don't know the meaning of 9/11!
The Holy Word
27-08-2004, 12:39
No, Ireland should be reunified instead.*Falls off chair in shock* We're actually in complete agreement there. (You take my point on the hypocricy of some Americans on "supporting terrorism" there though?)
NeLi II
27-08-2004, 12:44
I say pants
The Holy Word
27-08-2004, 12:45
I say pantsAbout anything specifically or do you just like using the word?
Tygaland
27-08-2004, 13:19
*Falls off chair in shock* We're actually in complete agreement there. (You take my point on the hypocricy of some Americans on "supporting terrorism" there though?)


Wow....*checks to see if it is a blue moon*
Yes, I am not blind to hypocrisy. I do not support terrorism, no matter who perpetrates it. To truly oppose terror this must be the case.
Seosavists
27-08-2004, 13:24
No, Ireland should be reunified instead.
YEAH!
Presgreif
27-08-2004, 13:24
Well, that could be closer than you think:

Russia, Georgia face war over separatist provinces (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1093344467693&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968705899037)

And they said the cold war was over...
Froggilicious
27-08-2004, 13:28
I just saw the footage on a local early-morning news program here. They didn't really say much about the story, though. *shrug*
Jeruselem
27-08-2004, 13:41
Well Russia does have some rather hostile neighbours!
I won't rule out Al Quaida either.
Skibereen
27-08-2004, 13:50
There's been a country that's been harbouring IRA fundraisers for years. Do you think Britain should invade and devastate it?
I think they should try.
Hajekistan
27-08-2004, 14:23
They don't know the meaning of 9/11!
Of course, neither do I.
My most recent dictionary is from the year 2000.
Nehek-Nehek
27-08-2004, 14:25
Russia should invade Central Asia and the Middle East, then devastate the homeland of those terrorists.

If the United States did attack Middle East, why Russia don't want to? :mp5: :sniper: :mp5:

They did. Remember, they attacked Afghanistan before us. And got owned. Watch The Beast, it's a good, unbiased movie about that war.
The Holy Word
27-08-2004, 14:27
I think they should try.Including nukes if neccessary? (The country has been proven to have weapons of mass destruction operational).
Almighty Kerenor
27-08-2004, 14:27
god id almost be afraid of that one, next thing youll have the left center middle east, and the right center middle east, one ruled by russia, the other by america......sounding more and more like germanys past.

I wonder where Israel would be then.

Hmmm, I saw the planes and all. Pity.
Whose responsibilty do you think it is?
Stephistan
27-08-2004, 14:33
Hmph.

It doesn't follow protocol.

Nobody claimed responsibility for it.

Actually from what I understand it's not unlike the Chechnyian terrorists not to take credit. In fact I believe this is their M.O. (It's what I've heard on the news any way)
Bunnyducks
27-08-2004, 14:57
Two Tupolevs down... and immediately it's 9/11.
Russian airlines almost exclusively use Tu 134 and Tu 154 planes in domestic flights. I guess they were good planes when they first were introduced in 1967... but out of 853 Tu 134s made, at least 26 has crashed (3%?).
27 out of 923 Tu 154s made have crashed (3%). Nice statistics. In those crashes 3 993 people have died. Of course, some of them were shot down accidentally under the Soviet regime... but those kind of things happen. :)

The planes in russia are usually ... how should I put this... not very well looked after and anyways at the end of their lifespan. The safety regulations aren't followed to the dot. It is interesting that they left the same Domededovo airport, and crashed almost simultaneously though...

The distress signal doesn't necessarily mean the plane is hijacked. The president of Russias Aviation Committee, Oleg Jermolov, said it only means there is a dangerous situation. According to Jermolov it could mean technical fault too.

What's interesting though, is that there's presidential elections in Chechnya this coming sunday. The separatists have promised to interfere the elections any way they can. Usually Mashadov's troops are quick to claim the responsibility though (remember them killing Chechnyan president in the spring, killing most of the judges and prosecutors of Ingushia, or the subway and theater incidents in Moscow). This time thay have DENIED they attacked the planes. This does not rule out that some other terrorist group may have done something to the planes. I wouldn't blame the Chechens right away though. That's what Russian government usually does. This time Putin has been quiet though... maybe cos if it was a ruthless terrorist strike made by the chechens, it would be a slap against his face this close to the elections.

If this had happened anywhere else than in Russia, I would have said straight away it's a terrorist attack... in Russia everything is possible though.

(what a sad rant, sorry)