NationStates Jolt Archive

*John Kerry is the THRID veitnam veteran whose war record AWOL George has smeared. Why is it that someone who had to burn his own military records to hide his shady past is allowed to attack the records of those who actually SERVED and why isnt the corporate-facist american media exposing this blatent hypocrisy? The people want to know

Lawyer Quits Bush Campaign Over Ties to Anti-Kerry Vets
On the campaign front, a chief attorney for the Bush-Cheney campaign resigned yesterday less than 24 hours after it was revealed that he was also providing legal advice to a team of Vietnam veterans who claimed John Kerry has fabricated his war record. Benjamin Ginsberg's resignation came as the Bush administration continued to charge it had no ties to the group known as the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. Meanwhile Democrats yesterday released a new ad calling on Attorney General John Ashcroft to open a criminal investigation into illegal coordination between the Bush campaign and the veterans group. A manager of the Kerry-Edwards campaign responded by saying, "Now we know why George Bush refuses to specifically condemn these false ads. People deeply involved in his own campaign are behind them, from paying for them, to appearing in them, to providing legal advice, to coordinating a negative strategy to divert the public away from issues like jobs, health care and the mess in Iraq, the real concerns of the American people." And former Senator Max Cleland, a triple amputee from wounds received in the Vietnam War, traveled to Crawford Texas and attempted to give President Bush a letter from nine senators calling on him to condemn the tv ads.
www.democracynow.org

What is worse is Bush "endorses" these ads and their right to speak out against kerry.
Flip-flopping: "I've against these type of ads: and then "I'm for them."

Oh well, Republicanms just can't see the truth that Bush flip-flops, they will only believe others will it seems.
Denial isn't just a river in Egypt

Good 'ol Democracy Now, we'd be in the dark without it.
Thank you for illuminating my darkened world, for without this totaly unbiased source of news my world would be as dark as...something very dark.

Anyway, as they say:
An intelligent fool is more foolish than an ignorant one

What the hell is demorcasy now doing brodcasting in Canada?

What is worse is Bush "endorses" these ads and their right to speak out against kerry.
Flip-flopping: "I've against these type of ads: and then "I'm for them."

Oh well, Republicanms just can't see the truth that Bush flip-flops, they will only believe others will it seems.
Denial isn't just a river in Egypt
Bushs sleazy and disgusting tactics are furthering dividing the nation at a time when Bush has turned the entire world against america

What the hell is demorcasy now doing brodcasting in Canada?
speaking truth to power

Tell us now, MKULTRA, are you really that wierd, or are you actually a right wing pretending to be a leftist?
If its the latter, I must say you are doing it very well. Hooray for extremists!

speaking truth to power


well since they only deal with amrican poltics It seems like a waste of money

I hate bush...and ashcroft...theocratical nuts... point is, Bush has taken smear campaigning to a whole new level.

I dont really like kerry, but if he beats bush, he deserves a nobel prize.

Good 'ol Democracy Now, we'd be in the dark without it.
Thank you for illuminating my darkened world, for without this totaly unbiased source of news my world would be as dark as...something very dark.

Anyway, as they say:
An intelligent fool is more foolish than an ignorant one
teh fact remains 2 people on his campaign team have had to resign for appearing in and assisting with Swift Boat Veterans against Kerry ads

Tell us now, MKULTRA, are you really that wierd, or are you actually a right wing pretending to be a leftist?
If its the latter, I must say you are doing it very well. Hooray for extremists!
extremity in defence of Liberty is no vice

Yeah, but Kerry was for 527 groups before he was against them. :p

Kerry hires 527 group chief (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/07/kerry.exley/)

I didn't realize that this site was so left-leaning. Wow. I mean, wow. I don't like Bush, but you guys loathe him.

*John Kerry is the THRID veitnam veteran whose war record AWOL George has smeared. Why is it that someone who had to burn his own military records to hide his shady past is allowed to attack the records of those who actually SERVED and why isnt the corporate-facist american media exposing this blatent hypocrisy? The people want to know

Lawyer Quits Bush Campaign Over Ties to Anti-Kerry Vets
On the campaign front, a chief attorney for the Bush-Cheney campaign resigned yesterday less than 24 hours after it was revealed that he was also providing legal advice to a team of Vietnam veterans who claimed John Kerry has fabricated his war record. Benjamin Ginsberg's resignation came as the Bush administration continued to charge it had no ties to the group known as the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. Meanwhile Democrats yesterday released a new ad calling on Attorney General John Ashcroft to open a criminal investigation into illegal coordination between the Bush campaign and the veterans group. A manager of the Kerry-Edwards campaign responded by saying, "Now we know why George Bush refuses to specifically condemn these false ads. People deeply involved in his own campaign are behind them, from paying for them, to appearing in them, to providing legal advice, to coordinating a negative strategy to divert the public away from issues like jobs, health care and the mess in Iraq, the real concerns of the American people." And former Senator Max Cleland, a triple amputee from wounds received in the Vietnam War, traveled to Crawford Texas and attempted to give President Bush a letter from nine senators calling on him to condemn the tv ads.
www.democracynow.org

Funny how you missed the several dozen times a day on tv showing President Bush, condemning ALL 527 ads and praising Senator Kerry's military service. The Swift Boat ads are 527 ads.

You also must have missed the 60+ MILLION DOLLARS worth of 527 ads that attacked President Bush with confirmable lies, half truths and slander. Plus all of those Kerry Koolaid drinkers that have "ties" to Senator Kerry and many of those President Bush bashing 527's. Senator Kerry can dish it out lies but he can't handle the truth about himself.

May God help these United States if that TRAITOR Kerry makes it into the White House.

Funny how you missed the several dozen times a day on tv showing President Bush, condemning ALL 527 ads and praising Senator Kerry's military service. The Swift Boat ads are 527 ads.

You also must have missed the 60+ MILLION DOLLARS worth of 527 ads that attacked President Bush with confirmable lies, half truths and slander. Plus all of those Kerry Koolaid drinkers that have "ties" to Senator Kerry and many of those President Bush bashing 527's. Senator Kerry can dish it out lies but he can't handle the truth about himself.

May God help these United States if that TRAITOR Kerry makes it into the White House.
bush doesnt need 527 groups to slander and lie about kerry, he does it himself, please refer to his first 3 campaign ads if you dont believe me.

mmm republican bs, its warm and fuzzy

He isn't in contact anymore, so till we have proof he is, no problem.

Funny how you missed the several dozen times a day on tv showing President Bush, condemning ALL 527 ads and praising Senator Kerry's military service. The Swift Boat ads are 527 ads.

You also must have missed the 60+ MILLION DOLLARS worth of 527 ads that attacked President Bush with confirmable lies, half truths and slander. Plus all of those Kerry Koolaid drinkers that have "ties" to Senator Kerry and many of those President Bush bashing 527's. Senator Kerry can dish it out lies but he can't handle the truth about himself.

May God help these United States if that TRAITOR Kerry makes it into the White House.

I must have missed them. Tell me, what were the confirmable lies half truths and slanders?

And how is Kerry a traitor?

Funny how you missed the several dozen times a day on tv showing President Bush, condemning ALL 527 ads and praising Senator Kerry's military service. The Swift Boat ads are 527 ads.

You also must have missed the 60+ MILLION DOLLARS worth of 527 ads that attacked President Bush with confirmable lies, half truths and slander. Plus all of those Kerry Koolaid drinkers that have "ties" to Senator Kerry and many of those President Bush bashing 527's. Senator Kerry can dish it out lies but he can't handle the truth about himself.

May God help these United States if that TRAITOR Kerry makes it into the White House.

Hit the nail on the head.
No need to add anything.
:)

I didn't realize that this site was so left-leaning. Wow. I mean, wow. I don't like Bush, but you guys loathe him.
for good reason

Funny how you missed the several dozen times a day on tv showing President Bush, condemning ALL 527 ads and praising Senator Kerry's military service. The Swift Boat ads are 527 ads.

You also must have missed the 60+ MILLION DOLLARS worth of 527 ads that attacked President Bush with confirmable lies, half truths and slander. Plus all of those Kerry Koolaid drinkers that have "ties" to Senator Kerry and many of those President Bush bashing 527's. Senator Kerry can dish it out lies but he can't handle the truth about himself.

May God help these United States if that TRAITOR Kerry makes it into the White House.
america wont survive another 4 years with the scumbag thats in the white house now-the traitor who ALLOWED 911 to happen just so he can wage a special interest war in Iraq

Now how did Bush allow the attacks of Sept. 11th happen? Maybe it had a thing or two with Clinton never seeking the responsible parties for the first World Trade Center Bombing, the African embassey bombings, the USS Cole attack, these were the warning signs to this attack. The attack on Iraq was asked for by the beloved Clinton as well from Public Law 105-235, "Whereas Iraq's continuing weapons of mass destruction programs threaten vital United States interests and international peace and security:
Now, therefore, be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the Government of Iraq is in material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations, and therefore the President is urged to take appropriate action, in accordance with the Constitution and relevant laws of the United States, to bring Iraq into compliance with its international obligations."

Yeah and Bush is probably responsible for making Clinton say these things too. You may not want to believe that a Democrat could actually mess something up, but anyone can make a mistake.

As for Kerry if he wants to quiet all the critics all he need to do is sign form 180 and let his service record quiet the doubters. It is all in his hands.

Also maybe you don't know this, but if Bush were to tell the Swift Boat Vets to stop running the ads he would then be inviolation of the law. So you are sort of painting him in a corner.

If Kerry is so proud of his time in Vietnam why did he call himself and many other vets war criminals. I for one do not want an admitted war criminal as my president.

*points at all sides and screams 'Freedom of speech!' then runs away*

Remember all the MoveOn.org adds that showed Bush as Hitler...I dont recall hearing and Dems condemning those, or even any Reps even asking them to, you know why, because it was freedom of speech, why should bush have to condemn adds that he isnt running, because i have yet to see proof that he is, all ive heard are insane liberal accusations.

*points at all sides and screams 'Freedom of speech!' then runs away*

Let me just take care of this one quickly. *ahem* Freedom of Speech does not, can not, and should not apply to threats, libel, and slander. (See where I'm going here?) Therefore, the majority of 527s could be pulled just for that. When lying, Freedom of Speech evaporates, especially when it's malicious. Ha! Beat that argument with a stick!

Now how did Bush allow the attacks of Sept. 11th happen?

He got a briefing entitled "O.B.L. planning attacks in U.S.A." that described the possibility of using commercial airplanes as bombs, but he wanted to see how My Pet Goat ended before he started another book.

Maybe it had a thing or two with Clinton never seeking the responsible parties for the first World Trade Center Bombing, the African embassey bombings, the USS Cole attack, these were the warning signs to this attack.

Except that he did seek them ... "intelligence" community infighting prevented it. He also left the incoming "president" a detailed plan of action... or a list of actionable items if you prefer... which they ignored.

The attack on Iraq was asked for by the beloved Clinton as well from Public Law 105-235, "Whereas Iraq's continuing weapons of mass destruction programs threaten vital United States interests and international peace and security:
Now, therefore, be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the Government of Iraq is in material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations, and therefore the President is urged to take appropriate action, in accordance with the Constitution and relevant laws of the United States, to bring Iraq into compliance with its international obligations."

Unlike Bush, the great enemy (once) of nationbuilding philosophy, Clinton did nit then go and start a war without U.N. backing or for that matter without a strategy for occupation.

Yeah and Bush is probably responsible for making Clinton say these things too. You may not want to believe that a Democrat could actually mess something up, but anyone can make a mistake.

Yup. Case in point: I am sure there were Democrats who voted for Bush.

As for Kerry if he wants to quiet all the critics all he need to do is sign form 180 and let his service record quiet the doubters. It is all in his hands.

When we see the missing portions of Bush's record I will support asking him to do so.

Also maybe you don't know this, but if Bush were to tell the Swift Boat Vets to stop running the ads he would then be inviolation of the law. So you are sort of painting him in a corner.

There would be nothing illegal about him asking them to stop them, or decrying the lies they are full of.

If Kerry is so proud of his time in Vietnam why did he call himself and many other vets war criminals. I for one do not want an admitted war criminal as my president.

Well, you have a one who is a deserter and a war criminal, but won't admit it. Does that make you feel better?

Did Kerry ever say that he specifically committed a war crime, or did he say that the war was a crime, and war crimes occured? Really, if he did confess to specific war crimes committed by himself, please tell me.

Here is where "New England Republican" 's Eric Fettmann describes and quotes Kerry's earlier statements and whines about why he has not made his "many U.S. soldiers in Viet Nam commited war crimes" charges a 2004 platform plank.

http://nerepublican.blogspot.com/2004/08/kerrys-war-crime-accusations.html

As best I can tell Kerry said that we committed war crimes in Viet Nam. Is it any surprise? We committed war crimes at Abu Graib! This, to the Swift Vote Veterans for Lies, is how he is a "traitor".

They really should use the word "narc" or "rat", to describe someone who reports on crimes that he has knowledge of. To me, that is heroic.

Remember all the MoveOn.org adds that showed Bush as Hitler...I dont recall hearing and Dems condemning those, or even any Reps even asking them to, you know why, because it was freedom of speech, why should bush have to condemn adds that he isnt running, because i have yet to see proof that he is, all ive heard are insane liberal accusations.

Those (two) ads were not MoveOn.org ads - they were ads submitted by independent people to a contest for MoveOn.org - they were not officially sanctioned or funded for TV.

Now, Kerry has not come out against all 527s like "Papers, comrade?" Bush has, but he has specifically denounced a MoveOn.org ad that attacks Bush's service in the military.

Funny how you missed the several dozen times a day on tv showing President Bush, condemning ALL 527 ads and praising Senator Kerry's military service. The Swift Boat ads are 527 ads.

You also must have missed the 60+ MILLION DOLLARS worth of 527 ads that attacked President Bush with confirmable lies, half truths and slander. Plus all of those Kerry Koolaid drinkers that have "ties" to Senator Kerry and many of those President Bush bashing 527's. Senator Kerry can dish it out lies but he can't handle the truth about himself.

May God help these United States if that TRAITOR Kerry makes it into the White House.


You have no clue what you are talking about, and really , really, need to get some true facts from an unbiased source.
www.Spinsanity.org is a non partisan organization that looks at the media spin from BOTH sides and sets the record straight.

No actual facts can be found to support any allegations that negatively affect Kerry's Veitnam Record.

Thats the simple truth.

Bush is lying to you about his advarsary, and you have bought it completely.

Now how did Bush allow the attacks of Sept. 11th happen? Maybe it had a thing or two with Clinton never seeking the responsible parties for the first World Trade Center Bombing, the African embassey bombings, the USS Cole attack, these were the warning signs to this attack. The attack on Iraq was asked for by the beloved Clinton as well from Public Law 105-235, "Whereas Iraq's continuing weapons of mass destruction programs threaten vital United States interests and international peace and security:
Now, therefore, be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the Government of Iraq is in material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations, and therefore the President is urged to take appropriate action, in accordance with the Constitution and relevant laws of the United States, to bring Iraq into compliance with its international obligations."

Yeah and Bush is probably responsible for making Clinton say these things too. You may not want to believe that a Democrat could actually mess something up, but anyone can make a mistake.

As for Kerry if he wants to quiet all the critics all he need to do is sign form 180 and let his service record quiet the doubters. It is all in his hands.

Also maybe you don't know this, but if Bush were to tell the Swift Boat Vets to stop running the ads he would then be inviolation of the law. So you are sort of painting him in a corner.

If Kerry is so proud of his time in Vietnam why did he call himself and many other vets war criminals. I for one do not want an admitted war criminal as my president.Bush was the one who went on a 6 month vacation just prior to 911 and Bush was the one who actively ignored all specific warnings and Bush was the one who froze on 911 and used schoolkids as human sheilds while his dad was drinking champagne with the bin ladens watchin americans jump off the WTC and Bush was the one who gave Osama 2 months to escape afghanistan... need I go on?

Remember all the MoveOn.org adds that showed Bush as Hitler...I dont recall hearing and Dems condemning those, or even any Reps even asking them to, you know why, because it was freedom of speech, why should bush have to condemn adds that he isnt running, because i have yet to see proof that he is, all ive heard are insane liberal accusations.dems DID condemn that ad and then Bush went on to use a Hitler ad against Kerry like the typical hypocrite he is

Well it looks like both bush and kerry are doushbags

Well it looks like both bush and kerry are doushbags
But Bush is a bigger doushbag cause hes essentially a terrorist

Bush was the one who went on a 6 month vacation just prior to 911 and Bush was the one who actively ignored all specific warnings and Bush was the one who froze on 911 and used schoolkids as human sheilds while his dad was drinking champagne with the bin ladens watchin americans jump off the WTC and Bush was the one who gave Osama 2 months to escape afghanistan... need I go on?
Do you even read as you type?
How could he use children as human shields against people who quite obviously don't care about children?
Also, when did George Senior become a Bond villain? Does he have a Persian cat? Do the Bushies also have a giant orbital laser aimed at John Kerry's head (wouldn't be to hard of a target to hit, ZING!)?

But Bush is a bigger doushbag cause hes essentially a terrorist
Could that be proffesional jealousy I sense, MKULTRA?

Do you even read as you type?
How could he use children as human shields against people who quite obviously don't care about children?
Also, when did George Senior become a Bond villain? Does he have a Persian cat? Do the Bushies also have a giant orbital laser aimed at John Kerry's head (wouldn't be to hard of a target to hit, ZING!)?


Could that be proffesional jealousy I sense, MKULTRA?

Lol. I'm a liberal, but that's great post. Those types just make me look by by association.

Hmm,
They call for Bush to denounce the Swift Boat Ads, screech that 2 of the people on his campaign were INDEPENDENTLY involved with the SBV 527; yet they turn blind eyes to the revolving door of 527 organization members working inside the Kerry campaign and the DNC. What's with the double standard? At least SBV are trying to make legitimate points, there's no way you can prove Bush is like Hitler. (And yes the ad was to be run by MoveOn until they got their butts in trouble for trying it).

Bush has praised Kerry for his Service, and denounced all 527's what the heck else do you want? Scream and cry all you want, you people are just turning more and more like cry babies.

whats a 527??

Hmm,
They call for Bush to denounce the Swift Boat Ads, screech that 2 of the people on his campaign were INDEPENDENTLY involved with the SBV 527; yet they turn blind eyes to the revolving door of 527 organization members working inside the Kerry campaign and the DNC. What's with the double standard? At least SBV are trying to make legitimate points, there's no way you can prove Bush is like Hitler. (And yes the ad was to be run by MoveOn until they got their butts in trouble for trying it).

Bush has praised Kerry for his Service, and denounced all 527's what the heck else do you want? Scream and cry all you want, you people are just turning more and more like cry babies.


Oh Please!

Are you telling me that Bush is NOT the one doing all the mud slinging?

Did you see President Clinton on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart? He was talking about how all four of them: Cheney, Clinton, Kerry, and Bush, were eligible to go to Viet Nam, and only Kerry did. He was asking what right they had to raise "scandals" about Kerry's war record, when none of them were involved in the action. It was great...

Hmm,
They call for Bush to denounce the Swift Boat Ads, screech that 2 of the people on his campaign were INDEPENDENTLY involved with the SBV 527; yet they turn blind eyes to the revolving door of 527 organization members working inside the Kerry campaign and the DNC. What's with the double standard? At least SBV are trying to make legitimate points, there's no way you can prove Bush is like Hitler. (And yes the ad was to be run by MoveOn until they got their butts in trouble for trying it).

Bush has praised Kerry for his Service, and denounced all 527's what the heck else do you want? Scream and cry all you want, you people are just turning more and more like cry babies.
its hypocritical for Bush to praise Kerrys war record while he uses surrogates to smear it behind the scenes at the same time but what more can be expected from a worm?

Lol. I'm a liberal, but that's great post. Those types just make me look by by association.
nah your own inability to fight back makes u look that way

Nice way to dodge my question on the double standard. Very typical and expected. It's already been shown that Bush had nothing to do with the SBV 527, get over your immature and fanatical hatred for someone you probably know very little about.

Did you see President Clinton on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart? He was talking about how all four of them: Cheney, Clinton, Kerry, and Bush, were eligible to go to Viet Nam, and only Kerry did. He was asking what right they had to raise "scandals" about Kerry's war record, when none of them were involved in the action. It was great...


In fact, he referred to himself, Bush and Cheney as "Chickenhawks".

Nice way to dodge my question on the double standard. Very typical and expected. It's already been shown that Bush had nothing to do with the SBV 527, get over your immature and fanatical hatred for someone you probably know very little about.


WHATS A 527?!?!?

Nice way to dodge my question on the double standard. Very typical and expected. It's already been shown that Bush had nothing to do with the SBV 527, get over your immature and fanatical hatred for someone you probably know very little about.
cleary they swiftboat liars are working for Bush as evidenced by Bushs dishonorable refusal to condemn the ads and the fact that John O'Neill is a partisan republican professional character assassin

527 is a non-profit organization that is involved with politics and has no restriction on how much money they can spend to sway the election in their favor. So much for the FEC holding to their standards. :rolleyes:

527 is a non-profit organization that is involved with politics and has no restriction on how much money they can spend to sway the election in their favor. So much for the FEC holding to their standards. :rolleyes:


Thank you

cleary they swiftboat liars are working for Bush as evidenced by Bushs dishonorable refusal to condemn the ads and the fact that John O'Neill is a partisan republican professional character assassin
Quit dodging my question! Come on, what's with the double standard? Can you not answer a direct question or must you continuously revert to attacking Bush? Is that your only venue of debate?

Answer the question:
How can you call for Bush to denounce SBV and not call on Kerry to denounce MoveOn and the whole other slew of Pro-Kerry/Anti-Bush 527's, which obviously take part in slander and libel?

How's this; ealier today, McCain (who I think would be better than both Bush or Kerry), asked both Kerry and Bush to condemn the adds that attacked both candidates (but especially Kerry).
That being said, I believe Bush went ahead and condemned them (as I'm sure Kerry did too).

This was from what I saw on Fox. Granted, I might have been tired, and blah blah blah right wing slant, but I think this topic is sort of... well... done...

Unless I imagined or Fox made up these facts, in which case, nevermind.
--

On that note, why are we so concerned about this crap?

Scandal doesn't make someone bad or good, only their actions and intentions.

Well Saipea, Bush condemned all 527's and said he'd like to see all of them removed from the election scene. But if he silenced the 527's....what would happen..."Freedom of speech is being violated!"

And the Kerry campaign is the one who's brought all of this center stage. The whole DNC was nothing but Kerry's biography, before he came home from Vietnam. They left out his senate record, or lack thereof.

How long must I wait for a direct answer? Or is it time to move to another thread to dodge it?

How long must I wait for a direct answer? Or is it time to move to another thread to dodge it?

dont exspect one buddy

It figures, you present them with one fact and a direct question...and they're silent. Take away a Liberal's chance to insult, and you're stuck debating one-sided.

Well Saipea, Bush condemned all 527's and said he'd like to see all of them removed from the election scene. But if he silenced the 527's....what would happen..."Freedom of speech is being violated!"

And the Kerry campaign is the one who's brought all of this center stage. The whole DNC was nothing but Kerry's biography, before he came home from Vietnam. They left out his senate record, or lack thereof.
I agree--a more relevant issue would be Bushs failed economic legacy

Quit dodging my question! Come on, what's with the double standard? Can you not answer a direct question or must you continuously revert to attacking Bush? Is that your only venue of debate?

Answer the question:
How can you call for Bush to denounce SBV and not call on Kerry to denounce MoveOn and the whole other slew of Pro-Kerry/Anti-Bush 527's, which obviously take part in slander and libel?
Because Bush was behind the SBV smears just like he was behind it when he did the same thing to McCain in 2000--moveon.org is independent of Kerry

Here you go Right Wing...
Bush has 2 members of his campaign resign because of direct association with the SBV 527.
Kerry hired the chief of Moveon.org

They are both dirty sons of bitches.

That's both sides of the argument.

But of course you choose to pick one side, and accuse the other of being biased. If you want to be non-partisan, just fucking do it. Give both sides of the damn story. If you want to pretend to be, then deal with the onslaught of evidence that contradicts your rightwing prejudice.

You cant have it both ways chief.

Man, I am so sick of all of these Liberals defending, Comrade Kerry. The man is an admitted war criminal, he voted for the war in Iraqi and then voted against funding that would outfit all the soilders with bullet-proof armor, he believes life starts at conception but you should still beable to kill unborn babies.

The...man is scum and a traitor, he should have been court martialed after he came back and admited he was a war criminal. If I ever meet him face to face I will kick him in the crotch.

nah your own inability to fight back makes u look that way

My own inability? What about your inability to spell or make inteligent insults or criticism? What an orignial insult, "Bush iz a terarist, fcking duchbag." You want want inability? What about your inability to make a coherent sentance? Hm? Fighting back? Sometimes, people with a modicum of inteligence and wisdom decide that leaving loonies be is the better part of valor, both extreamists on the left- and right-wing. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, and you, sir, now have a broken house. :mad: In an elegant conclusion, fuck off and die, the world will be a better place. Thank you.

Let's play a game! It's called "pick shitty posts apart"

Man, I am so sick of all of these Liberals defending, Comrade Kerry.
Way to start off, smartguy. Launching straight into the idiotic insults without base. Nice.

The man is an admitted war criminal,
You probebly don't even know the actual quote. He said that he, and many, many others in the Vietnam war broke the Genevea convention. Wanna know what I think?

I think war is rough and has the potential to bring out the best and worst in people. He testified about free fire zones and search and destroy missions because he felt he was given orders by his superiors that violated international law. The whole reason he testified in the first place was to show Vietnam was a mess and that the truth needed to get out about the problems there.

He could have been a nice little boy and kept quiet. But he made a choice to speak out against his government, and that's a leadership quality. The message I'm getting from this whole new generation of anti-Kerry, anti-Clinton types which is just as bitter and angry as the McCarthyism croud from the last generation is not to question authority, but only half of authority. The other half are a bunch of angels.

he voted for the war in Iraqi and then voted against funding that would outfit all the soilders with bullet-proof armor,
Quote the bill. ALL of it. You obviously have no idea how legislative works.

he believes life starts at conception but you should still beable to kill unborn babies.
OH MY GOD, you mean he actually ISN"T dictating laws based on his own personal beliefs? JESUS H CHRIST, He isn't seriously giving people a CHOICE, is he?!

The...man is scum and a traitor, he should have been court martialed after he came back and admited he was a war criminal. If I ever meet him face to face I will kick him in the crotch.
And a perfect end to a perfect post, with more random attacks without any citations, proof, or in fact anything period to back it up. Well done!

Here you go Right Wing...
Bush has 2 members of his campaign resign because of direct association with the SBV 527.
Kerry hired the chief of Moveon.org

They are both dirty sons of bitches.

That's both sides of the argument.

But of course you choose to pick one side, and accuse the other of being biased. If you want to be non-partisan, just fucking do it. Give both sides of the damn story. If you want to pretend to be, then deal with the onslaught of evidence that contradicts your rightwing prejudice.

You cant have it both ways chief.


I've already said that two of his campaign members resigned, but I'm still waiting for an answer on Why THE DOUBLE STANDARD?

Is it not possible for you people to answer it? Let me guess MKULTRA, Bush's "failed" policy in Iraq is your next answer. Give me a break, I ask for a direct answer and I see more attacks on Bush and dodges.

Here we go:
2 Bush Campaigners Resign because they were involved with the SBV, Kerry and the DNC both have several members from several 527's actively involved in their Campaign: Why attack only Bush? Bush had his people resign and he denounced all 527's can we not expect the same from Kerry?

Answer the question:
How can you call for Bush to denounce SBV and not call on Kerry to denounce MoveOn and the whole other slew of Pro-Kerry/Anti-Bush 527's, which obviously take part in slander and libel?
Point one: Kerry has disowned the most recent Moveon ad that questions (legitimately, I might add) Bush's Vietnam service or lack thereof.

Point two: Moveon is not a 527 group. It's a PAC. If you're going to attack them, you might as well get your facts straight, although if you're like the other right wingers around here, I'm not going to hold my breath waiting.

Point three: Rather than making a generalization (and being made to look stupid as a result), why not give some specific examples of 527 groups that have taken part in slander and libel against President Bush? If you can, that is.

Let's play a game! It's called "pick shitty posts apart"


Way to start off, smartguy. Launching straight into the idiotic insults without base. Nice.


You probebly don't even know the actual quote. He said that he, and many, many others in the Vietnam war broke the Genevea convention. Wanna know what I think?

I think war is rough and has the potential to bring out the best and worst in people. He testified about free fire zones and search and destroy missions because he felt he was given orders by his superiors that violated international law. The whole reason he testified in the first place was to show Vietnam was a mess and that the truth needed to get out about the problems there.

He could have been a nice little boy and kept quiet. But he made a choice to speak out against his government, and that's a leadership quality. The message I'm getting from this whole new generation of anti-Kerry, anti-Clinton types which is just as bitter and angry as the McCarthyism croud from the last generation is not to question authority, but only half of authority. The other half are a bunch of angels.


Quote the bill. ALL of it. You obviously have no idea how legislative works.


OH MY GOD, you mean he actually ISN"T dictating laws based on his own personal beliefs? JESUS H CHRIST, He isn't seriously giving people a CHOICE, is he?!


And a perfect end to a perfect post, with more random attacks without any citations, proof, or in fact anything period to back it up. Well done!

Doesn't change the fact that Kerry is an admitted war criminal, and now he's trying to run on War Hero.

And how can he attack Bush for sending the troops in without body armor, if he voted against it? Hypocrisy.

And politicians run on what they believe, right now we know Kerry believes both sides of an issue and stands firmly beside them.

Look people, I don't know what the hell you think Bush has done which is any good for the USA... or the rest of the world, in fact. His actions and those of the regime since appointment lost the world's good-faith in it's only hyperpower.

The world, in all seriousness, will breathe a sigh of relief when Kerry is elected.

I seriously don't see how the choice could be clearer.

Doesn't change the fact that Kerry is an admitted war criminal, and now he's trying to run on War Hero.

And how can he attack Bush for sending the troops in without body armor, if he voted against it? Hypocrisy.

And politicians run on what they believe, right now we know Kerry believes both sides of an issue and stands firmly beside them.You know, I'm getting tired of this freaking war criminal bullshit. Why don't you folks ever post the entire quote instead of just taking it out of context? Would it hurt your credibility a touch perhaps to admit that Kerry was talking about specific tactics approved by the commanders at the highest levels, namely free-fire zones where there was a high likelihood of civilian casualties?

And as far as the body armor s concerned, that's a bullshit charge as well. He did vote for the body armor, while the Republican Senate voted against it first. He voted to approve that money on two conditions--roll back the tax cuts on the top 2% of wage earners and make the White House be accountable for the money. Republicans opposed that, and what's the result? A larger deficit, and missing money. Kerry's was the responsible vote--the Senate Republicans are the ones who ought to be ashamed of themselves.

And why can't you yanks fight a war without body armour? That's pretty hopeless don't ya think? The enemy isn't wearing any body armour. Hell they aren't even trained. And the fact that there's only a few thousand of them... and you guys have lots and lots of tanks! Jeez put some effort into it.

Oh, oh, let me do this one!

Doesn't change the fact that Kerry is an admitted war criminal, and now he's trying to run on War Hero.

Again, quote where Kerry said he was a war criminal. You haven't addressed Goed's points, you just repeat more bs.

And how can he attack Bush for sending the troops in without body armor, if he voted against it? Hypocrisy.

There are many things in a bill, and while you could have something seemingly good like 'End World Hunger' voted down, it's often because they attached something like 'Make Bush Supreme Ruler of All.' I think what Kerry was saying was Bush should've taken care of this type of thing before the war, not in the middle, when crappy amendments are being attached to it.

And politicians run on what they believe, right now we know Kerry believes both sides of an issue and stands firmly beside them.

Kerry has personal beliefs, and he has political views. Political issues are things that everyone should be held to, like murder, rape, incest. Personal beliefs are things like abortion, religion, snack food.

Got it? Good.

How'd I go Goed?

Point one: Kerry has disowned the most recent Moveon ad that questions (legitimately, I might add) Bush's Vietnam service or lack thereof.

Point two: Moveon is not a 527 group. It's a PAC. If you're going to attack them, you might as well get your facts straight, although if you're like the other right wingers around here, I'm not going to hold my breath waiting.

Point three: Rather than making a generalization (and being made to look stupid as a result), why not give some specific examples of 527 groups that have taken part in slander and libel against President Bush? If you can, that is.

Point One: Then why does he not ask the DNC to back off of the issue?

Point Two: Point taken it's not a 527, it's a PAC. But it goes about attempting the same as other Liberal 527's.

Point Three: America Coming Together(527), Bring Ohio Back(527), and then of course we could go to the Soro's Fund which is a 501(a) [if I remember correctly]. All having been active in spreading lies about Bush.

So perhaps you'd like to stop making generalizations about "Right-Wingers" and focus on your debate.

And why can't you yanks fight a war without body armour? That's pretty hopeless don't ya think? The enemy isn't wearing any body armour. Hell they aren't even trained. And the fact that there's only a few thousand of them... and you guys have lots and lots of tanks! Jeez put some effort into it.

You obviously don't study military tactics. First, we're doing fairly well from a military viewpoint, (as in, not whether the war was good or not) after all, we're killing many more of them then they are of us. However, they gain initiative almost all of the time, which means we have to defend. Guerilla tactics means that tanks don't make a huge amount of difference. Iraq has to be taken by the boots. Body armor make the IEDs much less effective, as the shrapnel is less likely to kill them. However, it can still hit gas tanks, etc. You don't need to be very well trained to be able to make a bomb and run away, or find an AK47. You need to be well trained to be able to withstand a long-term deployment in a hostile country where shooting innocents will make more enemies, and you can't tell innocent from enemy until they start firing.

Bush should've recognized these dangers, which are very different from Afghanistan, before invading a fairly industrialized county like Iraq, where everyone knew that the conventional war would be over in days, and the guerilla war would never end.

Point One: Then why does he not ask the DNC to back off of the issue?

Point Two: Point taken it's not a 527, it's a PAC. But it goes about attempting the same as other Liberal 527's.

Point Three: America Coming Together(527), Bring Ohio Back(527), and then of course we could go to the Soro's Fund which is a 501(a) [if I remember correctly]. All having been active in spreading lies about Bush.

So perhaps you'd like to stop making generalizations about "Right-Wingers" and focus on your debate.

I personally would like a specific example of a lie against Bush.

Oh, oh, let me do this one!



Again, quote where Kerry said he was a war criminal. You haven't addressed Goed's points, you just repeat more bs.



There are many things in a bill, and while you could have something seemingly good like 'End World Hunger' voted down, it's often because they attached something like 'Make Bush Supreme Ruler of All.' I think what Kerry was saying was Bush should've taken care of this type of thing before the war, not in the middle, when crappy amendments are being attached to it.



Kerry has personal beliefs, and he has political views. Political issues are things that everyone should be held to, like murder, rape, incest. Personal beliefs are things like abortion, religion, snack food.

Got it? Good.

How'd I go Goed?
"We're not in danger from the Reds or the Redcoats, but the crimes,the crimes that we're committing."

Ever watched the speech or heard it?

And yes, while there are many things in a bill, he criticized Bush for not giving our troops the support, but Kerry still touts that he voted against it and in doing so touts not giving the troops the support they needed. Luckily his vote didn't mean anything and the bills passed.

And a Politician RUNS ON WHO THEY ARE. How can a politician share common ground with the people, if they can't define who they are. That's what Kerry's problem is.

Okay, I'm going to leave this one to one of the others. I can only stand so much bs in a day.

Man, I am so sick of all of these Liberals defending, Comrade Kerry. The man is an admitted war criminal, he voted for the war in Iraqi and then voted against funding that would outfit all the soilders with bullet-proof armor, he believes life starts at conception but you should still beable to kill unborn babies.

The...man is scum and a traitor, he should have been court martialed after he came back and admited he was a war criminal. If I ever meet him face to face I will kick him in the crotch.your such a brainwashed victim of foxnews and hate radio

Bush mustnt refuse to acknowledge those ads, or else maybe someone might look at the simple fact he never served in Vietnam, and in fact went AWOL.
The republicans want a one party system and they cant have it if the Democrats can maintain any pace in running.

My own inability? What about your inability to spell or make inteligent insults or criticism? What an orignial insult, "Bush iz a terarist, fcking duchbag." You want want inability? What about your inability to make a coherent sentance? Hm? Fighting back? Sometimes, people with a modicum of inteligence and wisdom decide that leaving loonies be is the better part of valor, both extreamists on the left- and right-wing. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, and you, sir, now have a broken house. :mad: In an elegant conclusion, fuck off and die, the world will be a better place. Thank you.
your methods are weak- we are in a culture war in case you didnt notise and your namby pamby lukewarm middle of the road values will get you killed in battle.With so much at steak we cant afford your clueless complacency and this is no way for you to speak to your moral superiors

your methods are weak- we are in a culture war in case you didnt notise and your namby pamby lukewarm middle of the road values will get you killed in battle.With so much at steak we cant afford your clueless complacency and this is no way for you to speak to your moral superiors

Oh, yeah, there's a great future for radicals. I mean, our country needs more fundamentalists who can't see that anyone who disagrees with them might still be in posession of any modicum of intelectual faculties. I forgot, everything is black and fucking white, so it should be simple, everyone who doesn't agree with you is an unpatriotic moron who can't decide what to eat for breakfast, much less which way the country should go. Some of the most respected people in politics and the greatest leaders are some of those worthless middle of the road people who manage to compromise and still get something done. McCain would be a great example. Culture war? Killed in battle? In case *you* haven't noticed, we need to have middle of the road people, otherwise swing votes and those horrible moderates will swing the other way. Have you noticed how both sides are avoiding looking far-wing? Kerry is fighting the 'liberal' label. Why? Because they recognize you have to be *gasp* middle of the road!

Do you really think you bring a lot more people to our side with your bashing Bush while giving no evidence or support? Do you think things like, "Bush is a fucking terrorist." makes people want to be associated with us?

Clueless? Which one of us thinks that being a radical is the way to win? Which one of us thinks he/she/angrogenous being/heshe is the morally superior? What, because you make unsupported claims and accusations? Because your fingers can type with no influence from what little remnent of a brain you have left? What is it about you that makes you so morally superior to wretched athiests like myself?

"We're not in danger from the Reds or the Redcoats, but the crimes,the crimes that we're committing."

Ever watched the speech or heard it?

And yes, while there are many things in a bill, he criticized Bush for not giving our troops the support, but Kerry still touts that he voted against it and in doing so touts not giving the troops the support they needed. Luckily his vote didn't mean anything and the bills passed.

And a Politician RUNS ON WHO THEY ARE. How can a politician share common ground with the people, if they can't define who they are. That's what Kerry's problem is.

WHOOOO WHOOOO!

Chugga chugga chugga chugga...

WHOOOO WHOOOO!

Look, it's the stupid train-and it's arriving at RWC station!

Hey dipshit, you can believe in one thing but still give other a choice. I do that. I am personally against abortion, but I feel it's not my right to force that apun others.

Furthermore, you obviously payed NO attention, and you don't know shit about how legislation works. A bill is never as simple as "give the troops armor." No, it's usually "give the troops armor, cut taxes, plant a few trees, give bob $20."

What's that? No comment on the war crimes thing? Could you be <GASP OF SHOCK AND HORROR!> wrong?

Oh, furthermore, on the bill thing, it's the Republicans on the Senate you need to be pissed at. They're the ones that would not make a clean bill on the troops-no, they wanted to throw in a bunch of other shit. YOu wanna talk about not supporting the troops? Take your head OUT of your ass and look around on your side.

Point One: Then why does he not ask the DNC to back off of the issue?

Point Two: Point taken it's not a 527, it's a PAC. But it goes about attempting the same as other Liberal 527's.

Point Three: America Coming Together(527), Bring Ohio Back(527), and then of course we could go to the Soro's Fund which is a 501(a) [if I remember correctly]. All having been active in spreading lies about Bush.

So perhaps you'd like to stop making generalizations about "Right-Wingers" and focus on your debate.
Point one: If you're talking about the DNC's general defense of 527 groups, then Kerry has no reason to ask them to back off the issue. The issue is one of freedom of speech and the right to political expression, and every one of those groups has the right to express their feelings, as long as any attacks they make are factually accurate. The problem with the Swift Vets group is that they are not accurate.

Point two: What Moveon attempts is besides the point. It's a PAC--a political action committee. That's what it's designed to do, take political action for a particular cause, in this case, the defeat of President Bush. In that case, it's absolutely no different from GOPAC, which is raising and spending money for the opposite result.

Point three: You still have yet to provide one shred of evidence to show that ACT and BOB have spread lies about Bush. Your claims mean absolutely dick. If you've got something, bring it, but be understand this: we don't have to make shit up about the Bush administration. They're far worse than most of us ever imagined possible.

Point one: If you're talking about the DNC's general defense of 527 groups, then Kerry has no reason to ask them to back off the issue. The issue is one of freedom of speech and the right to political expression, and every one of those groups has the right to express their feelings, as long as any attacks they make are factually accurate. The problem with the Swift Vets group is that they are not accurate.

Hmmmm......

Well, since we are talking about freedom of speech, and it has been noted that public figures can be ridiculed and slandered at will, then what makes what the Swift Boat guys are doing any different than what David Letterman or Jay Leno are doing?

I do find it ironic that Kerry and Co. one day say "Bring it on" and then a few days later say "Make it stop." While we will never know what happened 36 years ago, we do know one thing. Kerry was advised NOT to run on his Vietnam experiences, even by John McCain. McCain by the way has asked that the Kerry ads with him in them be pulled.

The whole thing is kind of funny though.

"We're not in danger from the Reds or the Redcoats, but the crimes,the crimes that we're committing."

Ever watched the speech or heard it?

And yes, while there are many things in a bill, he criticized Bush for not giving our troops the support, but Kerry still touts that he voted against it and in doing so touts not giving the troops the support they needed. Luckily his vote didn't mean anything and the bills passed.

And a Politician RUNS ON WHO THEY ARE. How can a politician share common ground with the people, if they can't define who they are. That's what Kerry's problem is.
lets ignore the fact that Dick Cheney as a member of the senate and SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, repeatedly tried to kill the same exatc programs you are accusing kerry of attempting to ground, because it makes perfect sense that a single member of congress can kill something, even though it takes a MAJORITY.

lets ignore the fact that Dick Cheney as a member of the senate and SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, repeatedly tried to kill the same exatc programs you are accusing kerry of attempting to ground, because it makes perfect sense that a single member of congress can kill something, even though it takes a MAJORITY.

But don't forget that we were not fighting anyone at the time. However, I think the whole body armor thing is a red herring and not important in the least.

i really hope hes not trying to still reply to me

YOU'RE IGNORED BECAUSE FORMAL DANCES HAS MORE COMMON SENSE THAN YOU

i really hope hes not trying to still reply to me

YOU'RE IGNORED BECAUSE FORMAL DANCES HAS MORE COMMON SENSE THAN YOU


Wow....what are you like 12?

Hmmmm......

Well, since we are talking about freedom of speech, and it has been noted that public figures can be ridiculed and slandered at will, then what makes what the Swift Boat guys are doing any different than what David Letterman or Jay Leno are doing?

I do find it ironic that Kerry and Co. one day say "Bring it on" and then a few days later say "Make it stop." While we will never know what happened 36 years ago, we do know one thing. Kerry was advised NOT to run on his Vietnam experiences, even by John McCain. McCain by the way has asked that the Kerry ads with him in them be pulled.

The whole thing is kind of funny though.
Last point first--the McCain ad has already been pulled, as per his request. It was pulled the same day McCain made the request.

The difference between what the Swift Boat Vets for Outrageous Bullshit are doing and what Leno and Letterman do is one of intent. Leno and Letterman are entertainers, and thus their comments are not (always) taken seriously. That's the requirement for satire set out in the Larry Flynt case. The Swift Boat Vets are making claims that they hope will be taken seriously, and so if they are willfully making inaccurate claims, then they're guilty of libel.

I think at first and the numbers reflect this, these SBVFT did have a negative impact on Kerry. However, It will be interesting to see the next set of numbers come out since we have now learned that the web of connections between them and the Bush campaign are starting to look like a lot more then just a fluke. Not to mention every program I see these SBVFT on now they are making complete fools of themselves. It's so obvious with every newspaper out there now discrediting their story.. Thurow alone has changed his story three times now that I have seen myself. The real question is now that they are being exposed as liars and some pretty shady ties to the Bush election campaign, the question becomes, will this now backfire on Bush in the long run?

Last point first--the McCain ad has already been pulled, as per his request. It was pulled the same day McCain made the request.

The difference between what the Swift Boat Vets for Outrageous Bullshit are doing and what Leno and Letterman do is one of intent. Leno and Letterman are entertainers, and thus their comments are not (always) taken seriously. That's the requirement for satire set out in the Larry Flynt case. The Swift Boat Vets are making claims that they hope will be taken seriously, and so if they are willfully making inaccurate claims, then they're guilty of libel.

Well, more people remember what Leno and Letterman say usually.

The Swift Boat ads must be having an effect. As for the inaccuracy of their statements....we just don't know. It has been noted that the man who wrote "Unfit for Command" has publicly asked Kerry to sue him for libel. Pretty brash for someone if they were not sure of their information.

I am baffled at why Kerry ran on Vietnam given the controversy surrounding him and his subsequent actions. It was terribly ill-advised.

I think at first and the numbers reflect this, these SBVFT did have a negative impact on Kerry. However, It will be interesting to see the next set of numbers come out since we have now learned that the web of connections between them and the Bush campaign are starting to look like a lot more then just a fluke. Not to mention every program I see these SBVFT on now they are making complete fools of themselves. It's so obvious with every newspaper out there now discrediting their story.. Thurow alone has changed his story three times now that I have seen myself. The real question is now that they are being exposed as liars and some pretty shady ties to the Bush election campaign, the question becomes, will this now backfire on Bush in the long run?

Connections? Not really....the lawyer advised them on first amendment issues. One of kerry's lawyers advised Moveon.org and has stated that doing so is not a violation of the law.

One veteran who appeared in the ad was working on the veteran steering committee and resigned that unpaid position.

I hardly think that is some bombshell....

I think at first and the numbers reflect this, these SBVFT did have a negative impact on Kerry. However, It will be interesting to see the next set of numbers come out since we have now learned that the web of connections between them and the Bush campaign are starting to look like a lot more then just a fluke. Not to mention every program I see these SBVFT on now they are making complete fools of themselves. It's so obvious with every newspaper out there now discrediting their story.. Thurow alone has changed his story three times now that I have seen myself. The real question is now that they are being exposed as liars and some pretty shady ties to the Bush election campaign, the question becomes, will this now backfire on Bush in the long run?
dont expect it to change anything, the stupid have heard and listened and believed, the people who already realised it was slanderous bullshit from the start dont matter. even if it is discredited the people will still reference the swift boat vets against kerry (that should be their name and what i shall clal them, period) whenever they get the chance and will recall them when trying to make people vote bush

Connections? Not really....the lawyer advised them on first amendment issues. One of kerry's lawyers advised Moveon.org and has stated that doing so is not a violation of the law.

One veteran who appeared in the ad was working on the veteran steering committee and resigned that unpaid position.

I hardly think that is some bombshell....

Oh come one, it's way more then the lawyer, if it was only the lawyer then I wouldn't bring it up. Read the Boston Globe or the NY Times or any number of papers that have come out in the last week on the issue. Not only are these guys lying.. the connections to the Bush campaign are mounting.

Oh come one, it's way more then the lawyer, if it was only the lawyer then I wouldn't bring it up. Read the Boston Globe or the NY Times or any number of papers that have come out in the last week on the issue. Not only are these guys lying.. the connections to the Bush campaign are mounting.
besdies didnt somebody mention in the last few pages moveon.org is a PAC and swift boat vets against kerry is a 527, or something to that effect

Well, more people remember what Leno and Letterman say usually.

The Swift Boat ads must be having an effect. As for the inaccuracy of their statements....we just don't know. It has been noted that the man who wrote "Unfit for Command" has publicly asked Kerry to sue him for libel. Pretty brash for someone if they were not sure of their information.

I am baffled at why Kerry ran on Vietnam given the controversy surrounding him and his subsequent actions. It was terribly ill-advised.But they also discount it as entertainment.

The media coverage is having more of an effect than the ad itself, but there is an effect, no question. As far as the lawsuit challenge is concerned, the author knows that there's no way Kerry can sue him now--presidential campaign and everything--and that if he becomes President, it'll be even more difficult, so it's an empty challenge at best. It's like standing on one side of a fifty foot wall and daring someone on the other side to make you shut up--it's wasy to talk smack when there's little chance of being called on it.

As to the inaccuracy of the Swifty statements--we do know. They're full of shit. Their story has been falling apart ever since it was presented, and every news story that comes out puts another nail in its coffin. There was one yesterday on MSNBC that was an interview with a guy who doesn't even like Kerry, doesn't plan on voting for him, is pissed about Kerry's post-war comments, but served on the same Swift boat Thurlow did and who says Thurlow came under fire. The game is over as far as this story is concerned.

Oh come one, it's way more then the lawyer, if it was only the lawyer then I wouldn't bring it up. Read the Boston Globe or the NY Times or any number of papers that have come out in the last week on the issue. Not only are these guys lying.. the connections to the Bush campaign are mounting.

Boston Globe? New York Times? If they are reporting this, then why is no one else? I have not seen any of this on ANY other news source.

I am not discounting it, but both of those newspapers are so anti-Bush that I would look for another source.

* Benjamin Ginsberg's resignation came as the Bush administration continued to charge it had no tieg on him to condemn............
www.democracynow.org

Please! Benjamin Ginsberg? A Jew as a Republican? You sure make up some whoppers!!

besdies didnt somebody mention in the last few pages moveon.org is a PAC and swift boat vets against kerry is a 527, or something to that effect

No, they are the same thing, both 527. If I'm not mistaken PAC is a 527.

No, they are the same thing, both 527. If I'm not mistaken PAC is a 527.
i have no idea what im talking about im just quoting the other republican idiot on some other page, and as he stated it they arn't the same thing..


edit: apparently PACs are not 527, go go gadget beauracracy

But they also discount it as entertainment.

The media coverage is having more of an effect than the ad itself, but there is an effect, no question. As far as the lawsuit challenge is concerned, the author knows that there's no way Kerry can sue him now--presidential campaign and everything--and that if he becomes President, it'll be even more difficult, so it's an empty challenge at best. It's like standing on one side of a fifty foot wall and daring someone on the other side to make you shut up--it's wasy to talk smack when there's little chance of being called on it.

As to the inaccuracy of the Swifty statements--we do know. They're full of shit. Their story has been falling apart ever since it was presented, and every news story that comes out puts another nail in its coffin. There was one yesterday on MSNBC that was an interview with a guy who doesn't even like Kerry, doesn't plan on voting for him, is pissed about Kerry's post-war comments, but served on the same Swift boat Thurlow did and who says Thurlow came under fire. The game is over as far as this story is concerned.

Yes, it may be discounted as entertainment, but it is still remembered and eventually becomes something other than a joke usually.

You may be correct, but if Kerry loses, he could easily sue them. I have heard reports that Kerry is backing off on his first Purple Heart being caused by enemy fire. I am still looking at that one, not that it makes a whole lot of difference. Why he ran on Vietnam is a mystery to me given how controversial his return was. He will drown in that and the issues will go by the wayside. I predict that he will lose the election and it will be because of Vietnam. When the GOP shows the Vietnamese museum space dedicated to Kerry and his efforts on thir behalf (their view) it will kill his chances. The GOP convention will be very interesting to say the least....

Connections? Not really....the lawyer advised them on first amendment issues. One of kerry's lawyers advised Moveon.org and has stated that doing so is not a violation of the law.

One veteran who appeared in the ad was working on the veteran steering committee and resigned that unpaid position.

I hardly think that is some bombshell....

Actually, I think it's less on the labor end and more on the financial. It's people very close to Bush, Cheney, Rove, etc. who are funding this. It's ridiculous to assume that all of this money coming from very close to, but not quite touching, Bush isn't being influenced by him in any way. Another note, Kerry denounced the specific Hitler ad, while Bush just says that 527s are evil, because he's being hurt by them. Bush's never said that the Swift Boat ads were bad and false, he's tip-toed around that.

As for why there's been little reporting, it's not hard to figure out. Anything that requires a fair amount of work and isn't all that interesting, like financials, is ignored, and all that is easy and is a scandal, like Monica, is jumped upon by the media, and they let go of those stories as easily as a starving man lets go of a steak.

your such a brainwashed victim of foxnews and hate radio

First of all its 'you're'. Second I don't have cable, so I don't watch Fox News. Third I don't listen to talk radio, all of it is too negative. I get all my news from World News tonight and the Austin American Statesmen.

BUSH LOOKS LIKE A CHIMP http://www.bushorchimp.com/

First of all its 'you're'. Second I don't have cable, so I don't watch Fox News. Third I don't listen to talk radio, all of it is too negative. I get all my news from World News tonight and the Austin American Statesmen.
and your use of "its" should've been "it's"

i get tired of people whining about grammar and spelling

Bush Plans Legal Action on Anti-Kerry Ads

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&ncid=564&e=20&u=/nm/20040827/ts_nm/campaign_bush_dc_7

too bad Kerry won't do the same against all the 527's lying about Bush.

Bush Plans Legal Action on Anti-Kerry Ads

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&ncid=564&e=20&u=/nm/20040827/ts_nm/campaign_bush_dc_7

too bad Kerry won't do the same against all the 527's lying about Bush.

Bush wants to take away all 527s. He's not doing it for Kerry, he's doing it for himself. Don't be naive.

Oh, yeah, there's a great future for radicals. I mean, our country needs more fundamentalists who can't see that anyone who disagrees with them might still be in posession of any modicum of intelectual faculties. I forgot, everything is black and fucking white, so it should be simple, everyone who doesn't agree with you is an unpatriotic moron who can't decide what to eat for breakfast, much less which way the country should go. Some of the most respected people in politics and the greatest leaders are some of those worthless middle of the road people who manage to compromise and still get something done. McCain would be a great example. Culture war? Killed in battle? In case *you* haven't noticed, we need to have middle of the road people, otherwise swing votes and those horrible moderates will swing the other way. Have you noticed how both sides are avoiding looking far-wing? Kerry is fighting the 'liberal' label. Why? Because they recognize you have to be *gasp* middle of the road!

Do you really think you bring a lot more people to our side with your bashing Bush while giving no evidence or support? Do you think things like, "Bush is a fucking terrorist." makes people want to be associated with us?

Clueless? Which one of us thinks that being a radical is the way to win? Which one of us thinks he/she/angrogenous being/heshe is the morally superior? What, because you make unsupported claims and accusations? Because your fingers can type with no influence from what little remnent of a brain you have left? What is it about you that makes you so morally superior to wretched athiests like myself?
its true we need middle of the road compromisers but your a fool if you dont think radicals arent necessary and dont play a crucial role as well. Thered be nothing for you to compromise on in the first place if it wasnt for the radicals getting their heads bashed in on the frontlines in the streets. All progress thru history was forced thru by the radical actions of the few who were on the cutting edge of change. So stop bashing the very engine of social change itself and thank god there are radicals willing to stand against the tide or our democracy wouldve died before it was born. Middle of the roaders and radicals both need each other and its time the compromisers stop thinking that their method is the ONLY way when it clearly isnt

Please! Benjamin Ginsberg? A Jew as a Republican? You sure make up some whoppers!!
hes a neo conservative zionist nazi like Wolfowitz and Pearle and others of his rotten ilk, not a real Jew

First of all its 'you're'. Second I don't have cable, so I don't watch Fox News. Third I don't listen to talk radio, all of it is too negative. I get all my news from World News tonight and the Austin American Statesmen.
world news tonite is part of the corporate pablum media and Texas is a rightwing state and its newspapers reflect a dishonest bias as a result

world news tonite is part of the corporate pablum media and Texas is a rightwing state and its newspapers reflect a dishonest bias as a result
Isn't their governor a Democrat? Maybe a right-wing democrat, eh?

Isn't their governor a Democrat? Maybe a right-wing democrat, eh?
no--the gov of texas is a special interest republican named Rick Perry

no--the gov of texas is a special interest republican named Rick Perry

My bad. I heard something about a Democrat in Texas or something, IDK. Maybe I'm delusional.

My bad. I heard something about a Democrat in Texas or something, IDK. Maybe I'm delusional.
republicans in Texas gerrymandered the districts so that republicans have an advantage in Texas

its true we need middle of the road compromisers but your a fool if you dont think radicals arent necessary and dont play a crucial role as well. Thered be nothing for you to compromise on in the first place if it wasnt for the radicals getting their heads bashed in on the frontlines in the streets. All progress thru history was forced thru by the radical actions of the few who were on the cutting edge of change. So stop bashing the very engine of social change itself and thank god there are radicals willing to stand against the tide or our democracy wouldve died before it was born. Middle of the roaders and radicals both need each other and its time the compromisers stop thinking that their method is the ONLY way when it clearly isnt

Oh, I'm sorry. I keep forgetting that other, much better method. Viva la revolution! That's much better than managing to intelligently think about issues, and reach moderate solutions! Places like Nazi Germany, Cuba, etc. are a great example of what happens with extremists in power. There's a reason that words like radical and extreamist are considered insults.

All I want to know is this....when has Kerry said how he's going to make the country better instead of saying how Bush has "goofed up" America's foreign policy. Not every country in the world dislikes America.

All I want to know is this....when has Kerry said how he's going to make the country better instead of saying how Bush has "goofed up" America's foreign policy. Not every country in the world dislikes America.
No, but almost every one of them hate Bush. Remember those Kerry's Plan sites that are advertised with the commercials? They detail his plans, but I guess that'd require you to do research, or at least read.

But those were designed by writers. When has Kerry himself let America know what he will do if he is elected?

Oh, I'm sorry. I keep forgetting that other, much better method. Viva la revolution! That's much better than managing to intelligently think about issues, and reach moderate solutions! Places like Nazi Germany, Cuba, etc. are a great example of what happens with extremists in power. There's a reason that words like radical and extreamist are considered insults.
which reminds me of my favorite reason i heard that it was ok for us to go into iraq despite international approval, and it was ironically in an argument comparing bush and hitler, it was this: but the untied states had approval from congress.

yeah i bet hitler had approval from germany too. just because you have idiots and yes men reassuring you you are in the right, doesnt mean you are

But those were designed by writers. When has Kerry himself let America know what he will do if he is elected?
in those speehces you dont listen to

Why are you wondering why politicians slam each other? That's life, my friend.

no i listen to the speeches. Yet I never heard him say how he will make the U.S's foreign policy more popular. I have heard him say he wants to, but all I ask is how.

no i listen to the speeches. Yet I never heard him say how he will make the U.S's foreign policy more popular. I have heard him say he wants to, but all I ask is how.
just getting bush out of office should make the US's foreign policy IMMENSELY better..

But what if he makes it worse? Huh? Neve rthought of that before did ya?

He could have a Nixon-esque "secret plan." So secret he doesn't even know what it is.

Maybe he'll carpet-bomb Iran. If we're lucky.

But what if he makes it worse? Huh? Neve rthought of that before did ya?
how could he make it worse?

by complying with international treaties? oh yeah that will make it way horrible

by working with other nations instead of telling them to go screw themselves? oh yeah that will surely damn us

He could have a Nixon-esque "secret plan." So secret he doesn't even know what it is.
well a secret plan would make sense, his choice for vice president was so secret not even his campaign knew who it was

Oh, I'm sorry. I keep forgetting that other, much better method. Viva la revolution! That's much better than managing to intelligently think about issues, and reach moderate solutions! Places like Nazi Germany, Cuba, etc. are a great example of what happens with extremists in power. There's a reason that words like radical and extreamist are considered insults.
so if your so opposed to extremists in power then why arent you attacking Bush insted of me whose on the streets fighting for your rights to be weak within the system?

All I want to know is this....when has Kerry said how he's going to make the country better instead of saying how Bush has "goofed up" America's foreign policy. Not every country in the world dislikes America.
he says it everyday-your just not listening and/or our corporate pig media isnt reporting it

But those were designed by writers. When has Kerry himself let America know what he will do if he is elected?
everytime he speaks--I hear him say how alla time on air america

But what if he makes it worse? Huh? Neve rthought of that before did ya?
its impossible that anyone can make it worse then Bush has made it already--totally impossible

Maybe he'll carpet-bomb Iran. If we're lucky.
this would be another disaster--Bush already increased terrorism 100X by invading Iraq as it is

so if your so opposed to extremists in power then why arent you attacking Bush insted of me whose on the streets fighting for your rights to be weak within the system?

I loathe both sides. However, I'm liberal-leaning, so you piss me off personally, as your statements just make everyone who's every been considered a liberal look bad by association.

I loathe both sides. However, I'm liberal-leaning, so you piss me off personally, as your statements just make everyone who's every been considered a liberal look bad by association.thats a bourgoize hang up-shame and embarassment have no place in the minds of truly liberated people

bush doesnt need 527 groups to slander and lie about kerry, he does it himself, please refer to his first 3 campaign ads if you dont believe me.

mmm republican bs, its warm and fuzzy

Please be more specific - I have yet to see a President Bush backed ad that slanders or tells lies about Senator Kerry.

Not "bs" just a fact backed up truth. Attack the messager instead of proving your point with facts - atypical "KerryAid drinker" ?

thats a bourgoize hang up-shame and embarassment have no place in the minds of truly liberated people

Oh fuck off! :mad: You're sounding as bad as Bush! "Everyone should be like what I say, and do what I want! Also, share the same values."

i have no idea what im talking about im just quoting the other republican idiot on some other page, and as he stated it they arn't the same thing..


edit: apparently PACs are not 527, go go gadget beauracracy

PAC's are limited to 5K max donations and can pretty much bring up what ever they want.

527's can collect all the soft money they want BUT, cannot back a candidate or coordinate with a political party or candidate.

The problem with MOVEON is that it has a 527 arm and coordinates with other like mind 527s.

Tell us now, MKULTRA, are you really that wierd, or are you actually a right wing pretending to be a leftist?
If its the latter, I must say you are doing it very well. Hooray for extremists!
Hey buddy try researching it. This article actually IS true, more than democracynow carries it. Try a little harder not to be an "ignorant mass", eh?

Funny how you missed the several dozen times a day on tv showing President Bush, condemning ALL 527 ads and praising Senator Kerry's military service. The Swift Boat ads are 527 ads.

You also must have missed the 60+ MILLION DOLLARS worth of 527 ads that attacked President Bush with confirmable lies, half truths and slander. Plus all of those Kerry Koolaid drinkers that have "ties" to Senator Kerry and many of those President Bush bashing 527's. Senator Kerry can dish it out lies but he can't handle the truth about himself.

May God help these United States if that TRAITOR Kerry makes it into the White House.
Yeah, and funny how YOU ALSO MUST HAVE MISSED THE 80+ MILLION DOLLARS worth of BS and negative attack ads that Bush and co fired off at Kerry as soon as he started getting some favor in the runnings before being the "official" Dem! WAY BEFORE THIS. How bout you do some research first or skip on outta threads like this. Or at least be mature enough not to attack something you don't understand.

Remember all the MoveOn.org adds that showed Bush as Hitler...I dont recall hearing and Dems condemning those, or even any Reps even asking them to, you know why, because it was freedom of speech, why should bush have to condemn adds that he isnt running, because i have yet to see proof that he is, all ive heard are insane liberal accusations.
Well, the RNC actually did try to intervene. Try typing up PAC and Ellen Weintraub, somewhere around April or May of this year. RNC was trying to nail anyone saying ANYTHING about the cabinet or administration as a "political committee" and therefore would be in violation of political committee laws unless registered and paying as such. And of course the "liberal media" had it ALL OVER THE PLACE. Of course, with that movement in play, originally targeting MoveOn.org, it also would have affected Savage and O'Reilly and a GREAT many of mouthy folks who get their bucks with agitprop without having to pay for it, and that wouldn't happen. It got quietly suffocated, like so many other things ... only to be revived w/McCain (see McCain/Feingold Campaign Finance Law for elucidation) .... things might seem a little clearer.

PAC's are limited to 5K max donations and can pretty much bring up what ever they want.

527's can collect all the soft money they want BUT, cannot back a candidate or coordinate with a political party or candidate.

The problem with MOVEON is that it has a 527 arm and coordinates with other like mind 527s.

Hm. Thanks for the post. I had been wondering what the difference was. It seems like 527s should either be much more heavily regulated (for example, it's obvious that many 527s are actually backing Bush/Kerry, and are in no way neutral), or removed all together.

It figures, you present them with one fact and a direct question...and they're silent. Take away a Liberal's chance to insult, and you're stuck debating one-sided.
Get over yourself and get out into the real world. Maybe away from your ever-devout Fox attenuation.

I think at first and the numbers reflect this, these SBVFT did have a negative impact on Kerry. However, It will be interesting to see the next set of numbers come out since we have now learned that the web of connections between them and the Bush campaign are starting to look like a lot more then just a fluke. Not to mention every program I see these SBVFT on now they are making complete fools of themselves. It's so obvious with every newspaper out there now discrediting their story.. Thurow alone has changed his story three times now that I have seen myself. The real question is now that they are being exposed as liars and some pretty shady ties to the Bush election campaign, the question becomes, will this now backfire on Bush in the long run?
Interestingly enough, for what it's worth, Savage was gung-ho (surprise) on the O'Neill idea right up til O'Neill didn't bother to show for Savage's show, right about the time that the connections to Rove and Ginsberg's connection were about to come out, strangely enough. And he's skipped his show all this week ('cept maybe today, dunno - his replacement is kinda stupid) for no announced reason.

Please! Benjamin Ginsberg? A Jew as a Republican? You sure make up some whoppers!!
Chew on the whopper. He's the head lawyer for Bush's re-election campaign. Look it up.

republicans in Texas gerrymandered the districts so that republicans have an advantage in Texas
For instance, punch up Willie Nelson and New Mexico. Happened a few months back ....

Nice way to dodge my question on the double standard. Very typical and expected. It's already been shown that Bush had nothing to do with the SBV 527, get over your immature and fanatical hatred for someone you probably know very little about.
Typical rightwing ignorant bs. Type up SBV 527, O'Neill, Ginsberg, RESIGNATION. Round 'bout the middle o'the week. And stay tuned. You wouldn't want to look like you have some kind of typical and immature expression of something you probably know very little about .... *shudder*

There is nothing illegal in a lawyer advising both a political candidate and a 527 group. The only time campaign and 527 interaction becomes illegal is when the campaign is coordinating the activities of the 527. There is no evidence whatsoever showing that the Bush campaign has illegally influenced the activities of the SBVT group.

And incidentally, Bush wants to get rid of 527 groups to make everyone subject to the same funding laws that partisan political organizations must abide by. He's not trying to quash free speech--he's trying to reign in the ultra-rich from launching unrestricted smear campaigns that they try to pass off as being non-partisan. 527s are little more than political assassination squads with unlimited funding.

I personally think the SBVT ads are in poor taste, but since Kerry chose to make his record an issue in this campaign they have a right to call it into question. It would be nice if they had more documentation to back up their assertions, admittedly. However, one wonders what Kerry is hiding by failing to sign his 180 form to authorize the release of his records--as I believe Bush has already done.

You know, I'm active in other political forums--but I have to say that out of all the bipartisan political boards I've seen, you guys take the cake when it comes to blind liberal vitriol. Some of you folks need to hate a little less and think a little more. Try cutting out some of the leftist propaganda, or at least get your news from a variety of sources instead of relying on the most biased one you can find. :)

Just a suggestion, though.

I personally think the SBVT ads are in poor taste, but since Kerry chose to make his record an issue in this campaign they have a right to call it into question. It would be nice if they had more documentation to back up their assertions, admittedly. However, one wonders what Kerry is hiding by failing to sign his 180 form to authorize the release of his records--as I believe Bush has already done.

They have right to call it into question, yes, but where should they draw the line? They have been thouroughly debunked by non partisan investigation groups. Why then, do they persist?

As for Bush releasing his records, that the whole thing....he hasnt.
John Kerry served his country when asked, he didnt run.
He has nothing to prove to you, or me, or anyone else.
Any record that you would need to know can be found in the Navy's records.
Bush on the otherhand.....his whereabouts cannot be confirmed.

Why is it, that its not okay for Kerry to fully release his records, but the same does not apply to Bush?
You see now, why this mess has so many people pissed off?

May God help these United States if that TRAITOR Kerry makes it into the White House.

Yeah, but may the god help the entire world if Bush remains there... Bush's America is getting close to Nation States' "Corporate Police State" with warmongering liars in charge.

What really annoys me - and worries me - about these as is the immense amount of media coverage they get. I read a typical article the other day in the paper (an AP story) that reiterated several times over 6 paragraphs what the ads were about, and only had one line near the end saying that the soldier who served with Kerry all agreed with the Naval reports. The rest was along the lines of: Kerry slams the ads that have veterans stating their reollections of events differ greatly from what Kerry claims. These veterans have accused Kerry of blah blah blah. You know the rest.
Now a quick glance isn't going to bring that to notice that last line. So the average reader is getting further reinforcement of their claims. It didn't even say that several independent reviews had found consistent support for Kerry's record (that was left up to the BBC, god bless them).
Did you know why Bush is coming out against these 'separate, independent' groups? Because the anti-Kerrys have raised $9 million and the anti-Bushs have raised $145 million. That should show the level of true feeling out there towards Bush (it was on BBC world the other night so I can't tell you where these figures come from - but let's face it: Would the BBC make up these numbers?).
Yet which group gets all the publicity? The right-wing media* in the US is very worrying. They're basically giving this group $100 million worth of free advertising - worse by dressing it up as 'objective' news reporting it's giving their claims credence and plausibility.
I think this might end up having the 'Willie Horton' effect. And predictibly, like last time, we won't find out that it's all lies and corruption til after the election.
On the plus side, I guess Micheal Moore will be able to make another movie. yay.
BTW anyone see "Fog of War"? That's true documentary making. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Moore's works and he raises some important issues, but his films are docutainments.


*Whoops. Sorry I forgot. The media in US is a left-wing liberal slease-pit that hates Republicans. Just look at Fox. Or CNN. Or TIME.

There is nothing illegal in a lawyer advising both a political candidate and a 527 group. The only time campaign and 527 interaction becomes illegal is when the campaign is coordinating the activities of the 527. There is no evidence whatsoever showing that the Bush campaign has illegally influenced the activities of the SBVT group.

And incidentally, Bush wants to get rid of 527 groups to make everyone subject to the same funding laws that partisan political organizations must abide by. He's not trying to quash free speech--he's trying to reign in the ultra-rich from launching unrestricted smear campaigns that they try to pass off as being non-partisan. 527s are little more than political assassination squads with unlimited funding.

I personally think the SBVT ads are in poor taste, but since Kerry chose to make his record an issue in this campaign they have a right to call it into question. It would be nice if they had more documentation to back up their assertions, admittedly. However, one wonders what Kerry is hiding by failing to sign his 180 form to authorize the release of his records--as I believe Bush has already done.

You know, I'm active in other political forums--but I have to say that out of all the bipartisan political boards I've seen, you guys take the cake when it comes to blind liberal vitriol. Some of you folks need to hate a little less and think a little more. Try cutting out some of the leftist propaganda, or at least get your news from a variety of sources instead of relying on the most biased one you can find. :)

Just a suggestion, though.



How more ignorant you could you possibly be?

Why is it, that its not okay for Kerry to fully release his records, but the same does not apply to Bush?
You see now, why this mess has so many people pissed off?

Bush has authorized the military to release his records to the public. Kerry has not, he's only posted selected parts of his record on his website. Also, Bush is not running on his war record--Kerry has made his a significant part of his campaign.


How more ignorant you could you possibly be?

Clever repartee. "How more ignorant" of debate could you possibly be?

Can you tell me where George W Bush was on vacation for 6 whole months before 9-11 MKultra?

Fox Hills, why do you care where and what president Bush was doing for 6 months? Do you dictate to the the President of the United States? I think not. Also, there seems to be a classic trend. Oh my God, someone is attacking Kerry! Its called election, people. Think mud slinging, baby kissing politicians. There is no 'perfect' presidential canidate. In politics, you have to give some to get what you want. I hear a lot about the rich, white boy Bush using his family money and connections to pull his way through Harvard. Where did Kerry go? Some backwoods community college? No, he did the same string pull to go to a nice college just like anyone would. And whos condemning the mass news media who slams Bush every oter day with yet another accusation? Someone attacks Kerry and now its shameful? I am deeply dissapointed with how easily the largely liberal and democratic mass media can sway public opinion the slanted way they wish it to go.

Also, Bush is not running on his war record--

Well quite. He'd be running on empty if he tried, wouldn't he?

Fox Hills, why do you care where and what president Bush was doing for 6 months? Do you dictate to the the President of the United States? I think not. Also, there seems to be a classic trend. Oh my God, someone is attacking Kerry! Its called election, people. Think mud slinging, baby kissing politicians. There is no 'perfect' presidential canidate. In politics, you have to give some to get what you want. I hear a lot about the rich, white boy Bush using his family money and connections to pull his way through Harvard. Where did Kerry go? Some backwoods community college? No, he did the same string pull to go to a nice college just like anyone would. And whos condemning the mass news media who slams Bush every oter day with yet another accusation? Someone attacks Kerry and now its shameful? I am deeply dissapointed with how easily the largely liberal and democratic mass media can sway public opinion the slanted way they wish it to go.
um wrong, kerry's family wasn't necesarily rich but they had a decent amount of money, kerry mainly marryed into money. but both bush and kerry went to yale. bush got in on his dad's money and the legacy policy, then he graduated BUSINESS with a C. i dunno what kerry did but kerry went to lwaschool when he came back and became a lawyer. what did bush do? boguht his way into the national guard and did whatever he wanted after losing his wings then pulled string the rest of his life to get whatever he wanted sicne he was a bush

Get over yourself and get out into the real world. Maybe away from your ever-devout Fox attenuation.

I agree. Also, RWC needs to realize that sometimes some of us sleep, or log off, etc. Usually, any thread has a fairly small group that's actively posting, so many times one side is unavailable for some reason.

um wrong, kerry's family wasn't necesarily rich but they had a decent amount of money, kerry mainly marryed into money. but both bush and kerry went to yale. bush got in on his dad's money and the legacy policy, then he graduated BUSINESS with a C. i dunno what kerry did but kerry went to lwaschool when he came back and became a lawyer. what did bush do? boguht his way into the national guard and did whatever he wanted after losing his wings then pulled string the rest of his life to get whatever he wanted sicne he was a bush

Retard! Guess who are Kerry's relatives. The Forbes and the Winthrops, besides the Kennedys' these families are the most wealthy in Massachusetts. Research better next time, moron.

*John Kerry is the THRID veitnam veteran whose war record AWOL George has smeared. Why is it that someone who had to burn his own military records to hide his shady past is allowed to attack the records of those who actually SERVED and why isnt the corporate-facist american media exposing this blatent hypocrisy? ]


Why? Because Bush hates real Vets, he only likes the cowards that desert like himself. He does not care if vets or soldiers drop dead, he'll smile from his ranch and will think, hmmm nice, all those deads, it will make my boss Dick C. even richer because I will make sure that we order more arms and stuf from him and his friends. And on sunday, I'll get some more pocketmoney from him, but must ask more in the next war.

http//:www.bushflash.com/vets.html.

In fact, he referred to himself, Bush and Cheney as "Chickenhawks".
As if anything that man says can be counted as truth. Remember, he also told the entire world that he did not have relations with Lewinsky, so now calling himself a "chickenhawk" is a truthful and :rolleyes: admirable thing?

Retard! Guess who are Kerry's relatives. The Forbes and the Winthrops, besides the Kennedys' these families are the most wealthy in Massachusetts. Research better next time, moron.

Aren't Bush and Kerry related?? Third-cousins or something of that distance??


Good enough reason not to vote for either of them!

Oh fuck off! :mad: You're sounding as bad as Bush! "Everyone should be like what I say, and do what I want! Also, share the same values."
Im not saying that at all--I think its rude that your not greatful to radicals for all the progressive change they brought about all thru history. Thats why I take issue with you judging people who are morally correct enuf to put their lives on the line fighting for social justice

Hey buddy try researching it. This article actually IS true, more than democracynow carries it. Try a little harder not to be an "ignorant mass", eh?
everything on democracynow is a true and real story--when will these fools learn?

Get over yourself and get out into the real world. Maybe away from your ever-devout Fox attenuation.
Rightwing Conspirators is an official victim of the Hate Media

For instance, punch up Willie Nelson and New Mexico. Happened a few months back ....
Willie Nelson does pro-marijuana ads on air america. You never see ads in the hate media fighting against anti-marijuana bigotry

Bush has authorized the military to release his records to the public. Kerry has not, he's only posted selected parts of his record on his website. Also, Bush is not running on his war record--Kerry has made his a significant part of his campaign.



Clever repartee. "How more ignorant" of debate could you possibly be?actually Bush burned his military records in a suspicious fire to be exact--nice try tho

Can you tell me where George W Bush was on vacation for 6 whole months before 9-11 MKultra?
he went Fly Fishing

You know, I'm active in other political forums--but I have to say that out of all the bipartisan political boards I've seen, you guys take the cake when it comes to blind liberal vitriol.
As am I. Though most of my other boards tend toward adult posters, so I don't see as much teen idiocy.

I think there's plenty of blind vitriol to go around for every camp, not just the liberals. Socialist, capitalist, anarchist, progressive, radical right, radial left, there's enough closed one-track minds here for anyone.

I find it quite frustrating to toss out a legitimate point on any side of any debate and have it ignored because of the wealth of flaming and ignorance. This could be an opportunity to have fun while listening to other opinions, but instead every political topic becomes a flamefest. Now let's see whether I get flamed or ignored. I certainly won't hold my breath waiting for intelligent response.

As am I. Though most of my other boards tend toward adult posters, so I don't see as much teen idiocy.

I think there's plenty of blind vitriol to go around for every camp, not just the liberals. Socialist, capitalist, anarchist, progressive, radical right, radial left, there's enough closed one-track minds here for anyone.

I find it quite frustrating to toss out a legitimate point on any side of any debate and have it ignored because of the wealth of flaming and ignorance. This could be an opportunity to have fun while listening to other opinions, but instead every political topic becomes a flamefest. Now let's see whether I get flamed or ignored. I certainly won't hold my breath waiting for intelligent response.
politics is war

Alright I've been looking over this..scrolling past all the posts since I last posted here, and I have to tell you, I've never seen so many loaded 'buddys' and 'morons' and 'idiots' used in casual conversation before. We all have rights to our opinions, a lot of men died to get us those freedoms and men and women die today to defend them. Lets at least try to stay civil to each other. Remember one of us may be each others real life neighbors...
Qoute:Let me just take care of this one quickly. *ahem* Freedom of Speech does not, can not, and should not apply to threats, libel, and slander. (See where I'm going here?) Therefore, the majority of 527s could be pulled just for that. When lying, Freedom of Speech evaporates, especially when it's malicious. Ha! Beat that argument with a stick!
:headbang: First off, you must have proof to back up your allegations that someone is lying. You can point sticks at Bush's records all you like, but remember that we at least got a President with a pair. Clinton would push a button to launch a weapon at an empty warehouse. I was in the Army for three years and I personally believe that you have to take a stand. Appeasement would only make us look like cowards to the world. I'm glad we finally have a President who can go to war without having to poll his closest 30000 friends.

[QUOTE=Hammerium]Now how did Bush allow the attacks of Sept. 11th happen?


Hmm........ Let's see. The CIA trained Osama Bin Laden. They delivered weapons to the arabic nations. America has a history of surplanting and instating dictators (chili comes to mind several times). It's just plain common sense: Bush isn't what's best for america. i'm not rooting for kerry either. But if you had to choose, which one would you prefer: a redneck texan who had to buy his way into being election, had the votes rigged (that's right, why else would there have been a broadcast saying that Gore won with a considerable lead (taking in account that 95% of the votes had been counted), and a few hours later the same network corrected itself, saying Buch had won?), and so on; or a democrate who (let's hope so anyway) has the people's and the country's best interest in mind, and does not need to start an all-out war with an 'oil country' to boost the economy?

i sincerely hope i don't hurt anybody's feelings, and that i didn't offend anybody in whatever way, but hey, freedom of speech

[QUOTE=Hammerium]Now how did Bush allow the attacks of Sept. 11th happen?


Hmm........ Let's see. The CIA trained Osama Bin Laden. They delivered weapons to the arabic nations. America has a history of surplanting and instating dictators (chili comes to mind several times). It's just plain common sense: Bush isn't what's best for america. i'm not rooting for kerry either. But if you had to choose, which one would you prefer: a redneck texan who had to buy his way into being election, had the votes rigged (that's right, why else would there have been a broadcast saying that Gore won with a considerable lead (taking in account that 95% of the votes had been counted), and a few hours later the same network corrected itself, saying Buch had won?), and so on; or a democrate who (let's hope so anyway) has the people's and the country's best interest in mind, and does not need to start an all-out war with an 'oil country' to boost the economy?

i sincerely hope i don't hurt anybody's feelings, and that i didn't offend anybody in whatever way, but hey, freedom of speechyour right th0-If Bush gets elected then he will destablize the entire world increase terrorism even more (if thats possible) with his reckless and arrogant idiocy and polarize american society to such an extreme extent that there would be a systemwide collapse

Man, I am so sick of all of these Liberals defending, Comrade Kerry. The man is an admitted war criminal, he voted for the war in Iraqi and then voted against funding that would outfit all the soilders with bullet-proof armor, he believes life starts at conception but you should still beable to kill unborn babies.

The...man is scum and a traitor, he should have been court martialed after he came back and admited he was a war criminal. If I ever meet him face to face I will kick him in the crotch.
No, Kerry said he was told by others that he met that day had done those things not him, so he admits other people commit crimes! Gasp, he tells the truth!
I'm sick of Conservatives defending that mud slinger/awol Bush so we are even.
He voted for the the bill to fight the wart in Iraqi if we really had tyo.
He voted against the bill to fund some things because the funding was taken away from important things needed in our country, also pork spending articles i think.
Yes, we wound't want choices would we... by the way the Bible actually defends the Pro-choice side. Its not illegal in Moses's time to kill a baby beforwe being born.
Also same for Laci peterson law: Its not a double murder, instead you just had to pay money and repent/apologize.

I aghre Bush is a scumbad and a traitor, he should have been court martialed after the awolness. And Kerry would kick your butt in seven different ways, they knew how to fight in Vietnam, they were not pansies.

Kerry denounce the ads attacking Bush that wwere 527's.


Oh further explaination of kerry's vote:

And as far as the body armor s concerned, that's a bullshit charge as well. He did vote for the body armor, while the Republican Senate voted against it first. He voted to approve that money on two conditions--roll back the tax cuts on the top 2% of wage earners and make the White House be accountable for the money. Republicans opposed that, and what's the result? A larger deficit, and missing money. Kerry's was the responsible vote--the Senate Republicans are the ones who ought to be ashamed of themselves.

Bush endorses the Swidt boats ads he said. He is against 527's only as a flip-flopper could be. He isn't directly against the ads, instead seeks "lawsuits".
Libel is legal if proven true so he might lose those suits.
PACS are not not under same rules as 527's legally.

Possibly accurate:

PAC's are limited to 5K max donations and can pretty much bring up what ever they want.

527's can collect all the soft money they want BUT, cannot back a candidate or coordinate with a political party or candidate.

I think a major point that is being missed is that its not 527's in general that the dems wanted Bush to denounce. It was one in specific that attacked Kerry's war record. The major reason, beyond Kerry's feelings being hurt, was that war medals awarded, especially in such a controversial conflict as Vietnam, should not be attacked - ever. Its insulting to Vietnam Vets and it casts doubt on medals being awarded in our country. My point of view is that Bush skirted the whole issue by attacking all 527's. It doesn't matter how much money anyone wants to spend on attacking another person - whatever. What does matter is cheapening those awards given out to those brave enough to go into Vietnam. I say we give them all more medals just to say thanks.
By the way - doesn't Kerry have service medical records indicating he has shrapnel in his leg and doesn't Bush have service medical records saying he got a filling?

politics is war
Then it should be fought intelligently.

Ever read Sun Tzu? Ever heard of Sun Tzu? You probably missed him since he's not posted on democracynow.

bah, I feel Like I should write a book entitled "Give up we're all doomed". Crap I hate politics, Crap Crap Crappity Crap. bah

Then it should be fought intelligently.

Ever read Sun Tzu? Ever heard of Sun Tzu? You probably missed him since he's not posted on democracynow.
he obviously inst leaving notes on the rnc.org either

Aren't Bush and Kerry related?? Third-cousins or something of that distance??


Good enough reason not to vote for either of them!

Nice words he used towards you, typicly him :rolleyes: :Guess that this guy allways get away with flaiming and destroying topics."Retard" "Moron"




"Retard! Guess who are Kerry's relatives. The Forbes and the Winthrops, besides the Kennedys' these families are the most wealthy in Massachusetts. Research better next time, moron. "

Im not saying that at all--I think its rude that your not greatful to radicals for all the progressive change they brought about all thru history. Thats why I take issue with you judging people who are morally correct enuf to put their lives on the line fighting for social justice

Oh, so because some radicals in history have done good I'm supposed to not criticize you? First, you weren't one of them. Second, radicals have done as much harm as good. Third, what, so you're saying that the *gradual* and *non-violent* change done by moderates is somehow less important?

Alright I've been looking over this..scrolling past all the posts since I last posted here, and I have to tell you, I've never seen so many loaded 'buddys' and 'morons' and 'idiots' used in casual conversation before. We all have rights to our opinions, a lot of men died to get us those freedoms and men and women die today to defend them. Lets at least try to stay civil to each other. Remember one of us may be each others real life neighbors...
Qoute:Let me just take care of this one quickly. *ahem* Freedom of Speech does not, can not, and should not apply to threats, libel, and slander. (See where I'm going here?) Therefore, the majority of 527s could be pulled just for that. When lying, Freedom of Speech evaporates, especially when it's malicious. Ha! Beat that argument with a stick!
:headbang: First off, you must have proof to back up your allegations that someone is lying. You can point sticks at Bush's records all you like, but remember that we at least got a President with a pair. Clinton would push a button to launch a weapon at an empty warehouse. I was in the Army for three years and I personally believe that you have to take a stand. Appeasement would only make us look like cowards to the world. I'm glad we finally have a President who can go to war without having to poll his closest 30000 friends.

My post was in reply to a person simply arguing that because the First Ammendment was there, the person could say whatever the hell they felt like with impunity. That's simply not the case, though it seems so.

What is up with people who equate appeasement with not attacking countries willy-nilly? I mean, I agree we should attack terrorists, but the less you hear about it the better. When the world hears about us attacking and killing then finding out it was for naught, that doesn't make us look good. Much better is to use Special Ops like Delta to take out terrorist cells once we find them, quickly and quietly, then taking the data from there to catch more. Doing things quietly is much superior. Also, we simply don't have the military capability to attack and hold two countries at once, so that's another reason that it would be better to use things like Special Ops. I don't see what's so great about a president with a pair, it seems to be causing testasterone to be getting to his head. "Ima gonna take 'im out. Hyuh."

Poll 30000 closest friends? No. Talk to 5 closest allies and ask for their support in taking and holding the country so the burden doesn't fall on our over-streached troops? Yes.

Has Kerry condemned F 9/11?

Or the actions of MoveOn.org?

No, he has not.

So you want Bush to say something along the lines of "back off" to the Swifties, but Hanoi John doesn't have to say anything to Moore or the staff of Moveon.org?

Blatant double-standard.

Has Kerry condemned F 9/11?Why should he? Kerry says he hasn't seen the film, and doesn't plan to before the election. And besides, while it's possible to disagree with the conclusions Moore draws in the film, his factual assertions are all perfectly accurate, and no one--I repeat NO ONE--has been able to dispute them successfully.

Or the actions of MoveOn.org?

No, he has not.What actions are you looking for Kerry to repudiate? He's asked Moveon PAC to take an ad off the air and has disavowed it, but what exactly has Moveon done--and be specific here--that would require condemnation?

Better yet--why do you hate the First Amendment? Why do you hate America?

So you want Bush to say something along the lines of "back off" to the Swifties, but Hanoi John doesn't have to say anything to Moore or the staff of Moveon.org?

Blatant double-standard.
I'd like Bush to say to the Swift Boat Veterans for Outrageous Bullshit what Kerry said to Moveon when they ran an ad (legitimately) questioning Bush's National Guard service. That's all.

Aren't Bush and Kerry related?? Third-cousins or something of that distance??


Good enough reason not to vote for either of them!
Yep, apparently.
Some intrepid individual posted the family line here a few months back, it goe sback to mutuality around the 1500's some time. Somebody Meade or Reade and I can't remember the other, maybe i'll post it when i find it or someone with a quicker connex and slightly more time and initiative will beat me to it.

As am I. Though most of my other boards tend toward adult posters, so I don't see as much teen idiocy.

I think there's plenty of blind vitriol to go around for every camp, not just the liberals. Socialist, capitalist, anarchist, progressive, radical right, radial left, there's enough closed one-track minds here for anyone.

I find it quite frustrating to toss out a legitimate point on any side of any debate and have it ignored because of the wealth of flaming and ignorance. This could be an opportunity to have fun while listening to other opinions, but instead every political topic becomes a flamefest. Now let's see whether I get flamed or ignored. I certainly won't hold my breath waiting for intelligent response.
Right on man - keep up the good fight.

Then it should be fought intelligently.

Ever read Sun Tzu? Ever heard of Sun Tzu? You probably missed him since he's not posted on democracynow.
did he butcher Democracy activists at teanomon square?

Oh, so because some radicals in history have done good I'm supposed to not criticize you? First, you weren't one of them. Second, radicals have done as much harm as good. Third, what, so you're saying that the *gradual* and *non-violent* change done by moderates is somehow less important?
im saying both need each other but you attack those of us who want results NOW

Ever read Sun Tzu? Ever heard of Sun Tzu? You probably missed him since he's not posted on democracynow.did he butcher Democracy activists at teanomon square?
Oh yeah, that's him. Sometime between 400 or 300BC, by best estimation. Boy, you're just sharp as a tack, aren't you? My overwhelming respect of your ability to make a rational response just went up by about 1000 percent.

Here's a link to his Art of War (http://www.sonshi.com/learn.html). Careful though ... you might just learn something.

Oh yeah, that's him. Sometime between 400 or 300BC, by best estimation. Boy, you're just sharp as a tack, aren't you? My overwhelming respect of your ability to make a rational response just went up by about 1000 percent.

Here's a link to his Art of War (http://www.sonshi.com/learn.html). Careful though ... you might just learn something.

Lol! That's great! Now you see the type I'm debating. Lol. On the contrary, I think he's about as bright as a burnt-out lightbulb. Personally, I think that The Art of War isn't nearly as profound as people seem to think it is, but it has good, solid principles.

*John Kerry is the THRID veitnam veteran whose war record AWOL George has smeared. Why is it that someone who had to burn his own military records to hide his shady past is allowed to attack the records of those who actually SERVED and why isnt the corporate-facist american media exposing this blatent hypocrisy? The people want to know

Lawyer Quits Bush Campaign Over Ties to Anti-Kerry Vets
On the campaign front, a chief attorney for the Bush-Cheney campaign resigned yesterday less than 24 hours after it was revealed that he was also providing legal advice to a team of Vietnam veterans who claimed John Kerry has fabricated his war record. Benjamin Ginsberg's resignation came as the Bush administration continued to charge it had no ties to the group known as the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. Meanwhile Democrats yesterday released a new ad calling on Attorney General John Ashcroft to open a criminal investigation into illegal coordination between the Bush campaign and the veterans group. A manager of the Kerry-Edwards campaign responded by saying, "Now we know why George Bush refuses to specifically condemn these false ads. People deeply involved in his own campaign are behind them, from paying for them, to appearing in them, to providing legal advice, to coordinating a negative strategy to divert the public away from issues like jobs, health care and the mess in Iraq, the real concerns of the American people." And former Senator Max Cleland, a triple amputee from wounds received in the Vietnam War, traveled to Crawford Texas and attempted to give President Bush a letter from nine senators calling on him to condemn the tv ads.
www.democracynow.org


At least Bush's father wasn't a bootlegger like that Democratic idol Kennedy's father was! Friend of the mafia as well!

Oh yeah, that's him. Sometime between 400 or 300BC, by best estimation. Boy, you're just sharp as a tack, aren't you? My overwhelming respect of your ability to make a rational response just went up by about 1000 percent.

Here's a link to his Art of War (http://www.sonshi.com/learn.html). Careful though ... you might just learn something.
Kerry should read this

At least Bush's father wasn't a bootlegger like that Democratic idol Kennedy's father was! Friend of the mafia as well!
Joe Kennedy was the only bad Kennedy out of a family of billions..I think thats a pretty excellent track record--the ENTIRE Bush family is pure rot

Why should he? Kerry says he hasn't seen the film, and doesn't plan to before the election. And besides, while it's possible to disagree with the conclusions Moore draws in the film, his factual assertions are all perfectly accurate, and no one--I repeat NO ONE--has been able to dispute them successfully.

[1)Hahahahah--- Moore makes plenty of mistakes in the film. He claims that secret service men don't guard embassies. Any first year political science student should know that they do.
The funniest part in the movie is where Moore says that the Saudis own America. Hmmm... why is it they are listed in the (OTHER) category then? They have less than 3% of foreign investment.
Clarke (hardly a protector of Bush) claims that letting the Bin Laden family out of the country was the right move to make. Moore claims that this was terrible. Maybe we should have had them lined up and shot for making the mistake of being born into the wrong family.
There are plenty of criticisms of Moore's film. There is an entire book with backing by Newsweek, the New York Times, the New Yorker and so on that claim its false. Open up your eyes buddy.]


What actions are you looking for Kerry to repudiate? He's asked Moveon PAC to take an ad off the air and has disavowed it, but what exactly has Moveon done--and be specific here--that would require condemnation?

[Moveon.org is the same sort of soft money attacking 527 organization as the swift boat vets. There are many of these for Kerry. George Soros raised a few of them and hs raised 64 million for the Kerry camp. So there is alot of soft money going around for Kerry. Kind of stupid to be saying "Wow $500,000 thats alot of money Bush." When he is packing 64 million.]

Better yet--why do you hate the First Amendment? Why do you hate America?


I'd like Bush to say to the Swift Boat Veterans for Outrageous Bullshit what Kerry said to Moveon when they ran an ad (legitimately) questioning Bush's National Guard service. That's all.

[The swift boat vets legitimatly can question Kerry's service. My point is that the first amendment is not exclusively democrat. These men have a right to be heard just as other 527s do. btw Bush has condemned them.

Joe Kennedy was the only bad Kennedy out of a family of billions..I think thats a pretty excellent track record--the ENTIRE Bush family is pure rot

Bob and JFK also had ties to the mafia. Bobby had the mafia stuffing ballot boxes in Chicago to get the JFK ticket in Illinious. When they backstabbed the mafia all of this was forgotten.
I also think it funny that democrats cling to the corpse of Kennedy. The man that got us into Vietnam and brought escalation of nuclear war to an all time high. With his failure to supply air support in the bay of pigs he nearly killed us all.
I think it funny you of all people would hate him MKULTRA. After all Kennedy hated radicals, namely communists and was further right then Nixon.

Bob and JFK also had ties to the mafia. Bobby had the mafia stuffing ballot boxes in Chicago to get the JFK ticket in Illinious. When they backstabbed the mafia all of this was forgotten.
I also think it funny that democrats cling to the corpse of Kennedy. The man that got us into Vietnam and brought escalation of nuclear war to an all time high. With his failure to supply air support in the bay of pigs he nearly killed us all.
I think it funny you of all people would hate him MKULTRA. After all Kennedy hated radicals, namely communists and was further right then Nixon.
Bobbie Kennedy was the better one but JFK was killed when he finally had second thoughts about escalating the war in Nam and was on the verge of reversing his position on that--then the same people had to kill Bobbie too so that the conspiracy wouldnt be uncovered
*btw Bushs father knows who the real shooters were

Bobbie Kennedy was the better one but JFK was killed when he finally had second thoughts about escalating the war in Nam and was on the verge of reversing his position on that--then the same people had to kill Bobbie too so that the conspiracy wouldnt be uncovered
*btw Bushs father knows who the real shooters were

No, they were both killed by Mayer Lanski to avenge Marilyn.

Plus, the magic bullet was indeed a magic bullet. It was a +5 Bullet of Ricochetting and it had the power to reform after use.

It was a +5 Bullet of Ricochetting and it had the power to reform after use.
I actually dug that bullet out of a telephone pole in Dallas. It's now a part of my vast arsenal, all contained in my Wand of Wacky Conspiracy Theories (+2 / +3 vs. Elvis impersonators)

I actually dug that bullet out of a telephone pole in Dallas. It's now a part of my vast arsenal, all contained in my Wand of Wacky Conspiracy Theories (+2 / +3 vs. Elvis impersonators)
conspiracies exist because govt and their mouthpieces in the media LIE to us on a daily basis.

conspiracies exist because govt and their mouthpieces in the media LIE to us on a daily basis.
Boy, you couldn't even *buy* a sense of humor, could you?

Do not mind MUKULTRA - he had to have half his brain removed to become a liberal.

Do not mind MUKULTRA - he had to have half his brain removed to become a liberal.

Was it the left half, which controls the right side's functions, or was it the right half, which is the half on the right side?

Boy, you couldn't even *buy* a sense of humor, could you?

Lol. You've noticed that about him too, huh?

btw Bush has condemned them.

I'd just like to refute this small point here. Contrary to some headlines, Bush has never condemned the SBVFT ads. He has said that Kerry "served honorably" and he's called for getting rid of 527s, however, he has never said that the SBVFT ads were wrong or are malicious, or anything. Just thought I'd mention it.

Was it the left half, which controls the right side's functions, or was it the right half, which is the half on the right side?

Left is art, right is logic. Front is descision-making, that's what they remove during a lobotomy, which I say MKULTRA needs. All in favor?

"Aye!"

Do not mind MUKULTRA - he had to have half his brain removed to become a liberal.

Ouch. You know, that hurts. I mean, it's one thing to mock candidates, but it's another thing to mock half of the country. :( I'm going to go feel depressed about the divide in this country now.

Note: For those of you who hate double posts, sorry, but I had a lot of replies, and I'm not good with this quote thing.

I'd just like to refute this small point here. Contrary to some headlines, Bush has never condemned the SBVFT ads. He has said that Kerry "served honorably" and he's called for getting rid of 527s, however, he has never said that the SBVFT ads were wrong or are malicious, or anything. Just thought I'd mention it.
Thanks for mentioning it, even though you are wrong.

Thanks for mentioning it, even though you are wrong.
:confused: Oh, well when you put it like that, your billiant logic shines though. Thanks for clearing that up. I mean, with all of your evidence.....

Am I getting through to you here? If you think I'm wrong, do five minutes of research and find someplace that proves it! A link to CNN, some news site, something! Just saying, "Well, thanks for your opinion, but gravity doesn't exist." is a stupid way to act in a forum, a place for *debate*, not saying "I'm right, everyone else is wrong, now go away."

Boy, you couldn't even *buy* a sense of humor, could you?
no but I did manage to get you off my back :cool:

Left is art, right is logic. Front is descision-making, that's what they remove during a lobotomy, which I say MKULTRA needs. All in favor?

"Aye!"
LOL--they outlawed lobotomys

Joe Kennedy was the only bad Kennedy out of a family of billions..I think thats a pretty excellent track record--the ENTIRE Bush family is pure rot
Someone is forgetting when Ted Kennedy drove a car into a lake that killed a young woman, and it was kept hush hush

LOL--they outlawed lobotomys

All in favor of getting congress to make one exception?

"Aye!"

All in favor of doing it even if it's illegal?

"Aye!"

This message is hidden because MKULTRA is on your ignore list.
The NS Forums lobotomy. Simple and effective.

All in favor of getting congress to make one exception?

"Aye!"

All in favor of doing it even if it's illegal?

"Aye!"
thats only 2 votes :)

The NS Forums lobotomy. Simple and effective.
your not allowed to respond to me if Im on ignore

Someone is forgetting when Ted Kennedy drove a car into a lake that killed a young woman, and it was kept hush hush

Then how do you know about it?

Left is art, right is logic. Front is descision-making, that's what they remove during a lobotomy, which I say MKULTRA needs. All in favor?

"Aye!"

Right brain = left hand = spacial relationships, left brain = right hand = linear relationships.

Bush has condemned it and is wanting to stop all 527 groups

First off, I'd like to say i am fully supportive of John Kerry for president and against virtually everything Bush stands for.

But I have to say it is Kerry's fault that he has all these people and groups calling into question his Vietnam record. If he hadn't gone toting his medals and service record for a war that he strongly protested when he got home from it, he would not be in this mess.

But if he had just kept his mouth shut on Vietnam, what else could he tout to stand against Bush? His Senate track record, while impressive with its longetivity, displays many flip-flops(I am loathe to resort to that term, but it does work), though not near as many in 18 years as Bush has shown in 4.

Perhaps John Kerry was not the best candidate for the Democrats. The author of www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.com seems to reflect the thoughts of most non-right-wingists, who only want to see Bush out of office, no matter the replacement.

First off, I'd like to say i am fully supportive of John Kerry for president and against virtually everything Bush stands for.

But I have to say it is Kerry's fault that he has all these people and groups calling into question his Vietnam record. If he hadn't gone toting his medals and service record for a war that he strongly protested when he got home from it, he would not be in this mess.

But if he had just kept his mouth shut on Vietnam, what else could he tout to stand against Bush? His Senate track record, while impressive with its longetivity, displays many flip-flops(I am loathe to resort to that term, but it does work), though not near as many in 18 years as Bush has shown in 4.

Perhaps John Kerry was not the best candidate for the Democrats. The author of www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.com seems to reflect the thoughts of most non-right-wingists, who only want to see Bush out of office, no matter the replacement.thats not exactly true--I dont remember John McCain running on his war record in 2000 but that didnt stop Bush the AWOL coward from smearing his record with the same lies and lets not forget how republicans shamefully smeared triple amputee Max Cleland and then stole the election from him using diebolt touch screen voter fraud

Nice words he used towards you, typically him :rolleyes: :Guess that this guy allways get away with flaming and destroying topics."Retard" "Moron"


I'm assuming you're referring to Moe Howard about this part....

"Retard! Guess who are Kerry's relatives. The Forbes and the Winthrops, besides the Kennedys' these families are the most wealthy in Massachusetts. Research better next time, moron. "


Here's some "research, Moe:

"It is also interesting to note that Kerry is third cousins to Bush on his mother’s side............"
1. http://www.fourwinds10.com/news/05-government/C-fraud/05-elections/2004/05C5-08-12-04-personal-message-from-john-joseph-kennedy.html



"Sen. John Forbes Kerry, the Democratic Party nominee for President of the United States in 2004, is related, in a number of ways, to George Walker Bush, the current (2004) US President, and the Republican Party nominee for President of the United States in 2004."
2. http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/wreitwiesn/candidates2004/bushkerry.html



"G.W. Bush and John Kerry are calculated to be 9th cousins twice removed....."
3. http://www.answerbag.com/q_view.php/5481

"President George W. Bush and Sen. John Kerry are related. Well, sort of. They're ninth cousins, twice removed. So what's a little competition between family?"
4. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/04/politics/main604163.shtml



"Not only are both Presidential candidates members of a secret satanic society, the Skull and Bones, they are related as well! Kerry is a third cousin of George W. Bush on his mother's side."
5. http://www.savethemales.ca/000522.html
Liked the picture on that site, btw. LOL


Well there's five. Need anymore proof??