NationStates Jolt Archive


American Politics = Anti Greek to the core

Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 12:51
I'm new to these forums, and yes I have used the search function to check whether such an issue has been discussed in an intelligent manner before.

American Politics is anti-greek to the core - From thier support and funding of Turkey to thier attacks against Cyprus for not supporting the bias Annan plan. The Greek Cypriot side of the argument has been repeatedly ignored and blurred with this issue of 'The acknowledgement of the Turkish Cypriots for peace'. Yet I see none of the issues brought up by Tassos Papadopoulos being discussed.

Why does not the International Court of human rights pursue war criminals. Where are the Turkish Generals who brutalised Cyprus and murdered 5,000 people, most of them Civilians and ethnically cleansed 200,000' (1/3 of the population of their homes)?

Not only are we legitimising these crimes, we are considering rewarding them with EU membership and finally with these absurd derogations are negating the foundation and constitution of the EU to not allow Greek speakers (but all others) to settle in the North. Why cannot all the refugees of the invaded North retrun to their homes, why are they restricted to a small minority when the represented 82% of the population before the invasion? why can a Dutch person buy a home in the North but a Dutch person who speaks Greek cannot?

I have seen very biased International Reporting on this matter and it was aimed to resolving this thorny issue and embarressment to the UK, USA and Greece with utter disregard for the Greek Cypriot people.

The Greek Cypriots are being made to look isolationalist when the whole plan was utterly biased, unworkable and dangerous to the majority.

In the 'Republic of Cyprus's constitution all T/C homes that were left have been kept in trust to be returned (for free) to the original owners,' this is notable considering that many of the T/C did not leave the South but were ordered out by Denktash in collaboration with the British who illegally ransported over 10,000 to Turkey, againt their will, in return for concessions agreed between Clerides and Denktash in Vienna to protect the 9,000 Greeks in the Karpass peninsula, an agreement, horrifically renaged upon as usual by the Turkish north.

I know of no other independent nation state that has 34% of its soveriegn territory occupied by a NATO power, 1/3 of its population ethnically cleansed and murdered over 1% of its population. On top it all, nearly 5% of it's land forever owned by a foreign power to stockpile weapons, troops, radar and who knows what else without any rent payment or even regard for the Cypriot democratic insitution. It thievery, and it's wrong.

Cyprus suffers and the issue does not relate to ethnic hate (Turkish and Greek Cypriots at the local community were in harmony) but for broader strategic and political issues that aimed to either stoke up hatred or exaggerate it as a divide and rule policy.

Cyprus would like the real Turkish Cypriots back not the nationalistic and often criminal settlers brought in to bolster 'Denktash's puppet regime'. Even the original T/C could not live with these settlers and it is well documented.

Right now the settlers and troops outnumber the original numbers of T/C that were ever on the Island!!

And who is behind it all? Thats right America and thier 'Junior Partner' Britain.

I'd like to finish with an interesting article about Greece and America:


"It's the best damn Government since Pericles," the American two-star General declared. (The news report did not mention whether he was chewing on a big fat cigar.)

The government, about which the good General was so ebullient, was that of the Colonels' junta which came to power in a military coup in April 1967, followed immediately by the traditional martial law, censorship, arrests, beatings, torture, and killings, the victims totaling some 8,000 in the first month. This was accompanied by the equally traditional declaration that this was all being done to save the nation from a "communist takeover". Corrupting and subversive influences in Greek life were to be removed. Among these were miniskirts, long hair, and foreign newspapers; church attendance for the young would be compulsory.

So brutal and so swift was the repression, that by September, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and the Netherlands were before the European Commission of Human Rights to accuse Greece of violating most of the Commission's conventions. Before the year was over Amnesty International had sent representatives to Greece to investigate the situation. From this came a report which asserted that "Torture as a deliberate practice is carried out by both Security Police and the Military Police."

The coup had taken place two days before the campaign for national elections was to begin, elections which appeared certain to bring the veteran liberal leader George Papandreou back as prime minister. Papandreou had been elected in February 1964 with the only outright majority in the history of modern Greek elections. The successful machinations to unseat him had begun immediately, a joint effort of the Royal Court, the Greek Military, and the American military and CIA stationed in Greece.

Philip Deane (the pen name of Gerassimos Gigantes) is a Greek, a former UN official, who worked during this period both for King Constantine and as an envoy to Washington for the Papandreou government. He has written an intimate account of the subtleties and the grossness of this conspiracy to undermine the government and enhance the position of the military plotters, and of the raw power exercised by the CIA in his country. ... Greece was looked upon much as a piece of property to be developed according to Washington's needs. A story related by Deane illustrates how this attitude was little changed, and thus the precariousness of Papandreou's position: During one of the perennial disputes between Greece and Turkey over Cyprus, which was now spilling over onto NATO, President Johnson summoned the Greek ambassador to tell him of Washington's "solution". The ambassador protested that it would be unacceptable to the Greek parliament and contrary to the Greek constitution. "Then listen to me, Mr. Ambassador," said the President of the United States, "fuck your Parliament and your Constitution. America is an elephant. Cyprus is a flea. If these two fleas continue itching the elephant, they may just get whacked by the elephant's trunk, whacked good.... We pay a lot of good American dollars to the Greeks, Mr. Ambassador. If your Prime Minister gives me talk about Democracy, Parliament and Constitutions, he, his Parliament and his Constitution may not last very long."

In July 1965, George Papandreou was finally maneuvered out of office by royal prerogative. The king had a coalition of breakaway Center Union Deputies (Papandreou's party) and rightists waiting in the wings to form a new government. It was later revealed by a State Department official that the CIA Chief-of-Station in Athens, John Maury, had "worked in behalf of the palace in 1965. He helped King Constantine buy Center Union Deputies so that the George Papandreou Government was toppled. For nearly two years thereafter, various short-lived cabinets ruled until it was no longer possible to avoid holding the elections prescribed by the constitution.

What concerned the opponents of George Papandreou most about him was his son Andreas Papandreou, who had been head of the economics department at the University of California at Berkeley and a minister in his father's cabinet, was destined for a leading role m the new government. But he was by no means the wide-eyed radical. In the United States Andreas had been an active supporter of such quintessential moderate liberals as Adlai Stevenson and Hubert Humphrey. His economic views, wrote Washington Post columnist Marquis Childs, were "those of the American New Deal".
But Andreas Papandreou did not disguise his wish to take Greece out of the cold war. He publicly questioned the wisdom of the country remaining in NATO, or at least remaining in It as a satellite of the United States. He leaned toward opening relations with the Soviet Union and other Communist countries on Greece's border. He argued that the swollen American military and intelligence teams in Greece compromised the nation's freedom of action. And he viewed the Greek Army as a threat to democracy, wishing to purge it if its most dictatorial- and royalist-minded senior officers.

Andreas Papandreou's bark was worse than his bite, as his later presidency was to amply demonstrate. (He did not, for example, pull Greece out of NATO or US bases out of Greece.) But in Lyndon Johnson's Washington, if you were not totally and unquestionably with us, you were agin' us. Johnson felt that Andreas, who had become a naturalized US citizen, had "betrayed America". Said LBJ:

"We gave the son of a bitch American citizenship, didn't we? He was an American, with all the rights and privileges. And he had sworn allegiance to the flag. And then he gave up his American citizenship. He went back to just being a Greek. You can't trust a man who breaks his oath of allegiance to the flag of these United States.

What, then, are we to make of the fact that Andreas Papandreou was later reported to have worked with the CIA in the early 1960s? (He criticized publication of the report, but did not deny the charge.) If true, it would not have been incompatible with being a liberal, particularly at that time. It was incompatible, as he subsequently learned, only with his commitment to a Greece independent from US foreign policy.

As for the elder Papandreou, his anti-communist credentials were impeccable, dating back to his role as a British-installed prime minister during the civil war against the left in 1944-45. But he, too, showed stirrings of independence from the Western superpower. He refused to buckle under Johnson's pressure to compromise with Turkey over Cyprus. He l accepted an invitation to visit Moscow, and when his government said that it would accept Soviet aid in preparation for a possible war with Turkey, the US Embassy demanded an explanation. Moreover, in an attempt to heal the old wounds of the civil war, Papandreou began to reintroduce certain civil liberties and to readmit into Greece some of those who had fought against the government in the civil war period.

When Andreas Papandreou assumed his ministerial duties in 1964 he was shocked to discover what was becoming a fact of life for every techno-industrial state in the world: an intelligence service gone wild, a shadow government with powers beyond the control of the nation's nominal leaders. This, thought Papandreou, unaccounted for many of the obstacles the government was encountering in trying to carry out its policies.
*****
A CIA report dated 23 January 1967 had specifically named the Papadopoulos group as one plotting a coup, and was apparently one of the reports discussed at the February meeting.
Of the cabal of five officers which took power in April, four, reportedly, were intimately connected to the American military or to the CIA in Greece. The fifth man had been brought in because of the armored units he commanded. George Papadopoulos emerged as the defacto leader, taking the title prime minister later in the year.
The catchword amongst old hands at the US military mission in Greece was that Papadopoulos was " the first CIA agent to become Premier of a European country".
*****
It was torture ... which most indelibly marked the seven-year Greek nightmare [under Papadopoulos]. James Becket, an American attorney sent to Greece by Amnesty International, wrote In December 1969 that "a conservative estimate would place at not less than two thousand" the number of people tortured. It was an odious task for Becket to talk to some of the victims:

"People had been mercilessly tortured simply for being in possession of a leaflet criticizing the regime. Brutality and cruelty on one side, frustration and helplessness on the other. They were being tortured and there was nothing to be done. It was like listening to a friend who has cancer. What comfort, what wise reflection can someone who is comfortable give. Torture might last a short time, but the person will never be the same."

Becket reported that some torturers had told prisoners that some of their equipment had come as US military aid: a special "thick white double cable" whip was one Item; another was the headscrew, known as an "iron wreath", which was progressively tightened around the head or ears.
The Amnesty delegation described a number of the other torture methods commonly employed. Among these were:

a) Beating the soles of the feet with a stick or pipe. After four months of this, the soles of one prisoner were covered with thick scar tissue. Another was crippled by broken bones.
b) Serious incidents of sexually-oriented torture: shoving or an object into the vagina and twisting and tearing brutally; also done with a tube inserted into the anus; or a tube is inserted into the anus and water driven in under very high pressure.
c) Techniques of gagging: the throat is grasped in such a way that the windpipe is cut off, or a filthy
rag, often soaked in urine, and sometimes excrement, is shoved down the throat.
d) Tearing out the hair from the head and the pubic region.
e) Jumping on the stomach.
f) Pulling out toe nails and finger nails.
*****
The United States ... provided the junta with ample military hardware despite an official congressional embargo, as well as the police equipment required by the Greek authorities to maintain their rigid control.

In an attempt to formally end the embargo, the Nixon administration asked Papadopoulos to make some gesture towards constitutional government which the White House could then point to. The Greek prime minister was to be assured, said a secret White House document, that the administration would take "at face value and accept without reservation" any such gesture.
US Vice-president Spiro Agnew, on a visit to the land of his ancestors, was moved to exalt the "achievements" of the Greek government and its "constant co-operation with US needs and wishes". One of the satisfied needs Agnew may have had in mind was the contribution of $549,000 made by the junta to the 1968 Nixon-Agnew election campaign. Apart from any other consideration, it was suspected that this was money given to the junta by the CIA finding its way back to Washington. A Senate investigation of this question was abruptly canceled at the direct request of Henry Kissinger.
Perhaps nothing better captures the mystique of the bond felt by the Greeks to their American guardians than the story related about Chief Inspector Basil Lambrou, one of Athens well-known torturers:

"Hundreds of prisoners have listened to the little speech given by Inspector Basil Lambrou, who sits behind his desk which displays the red, white, and blue clasped-hand symbol of American aid. He tries to show the prisoner the absolute futility of resistance 'You make yourself ridiculous by thinking you can do anything. The world is divided in two. There are the communists on that side and on this side the free world. The Russians and the Americans, no one else. What are we. Americans. Behind me there is the government, behind the government is NATO, behind NATO is the U.S You can't fight us, we are Americans."

Amnesty International adds that some torturers would tell their victims things like "The Human Rights Commission can't help you now ... The Red Cross can do nothing for you. Tell them all, it will do no good, you are helpless." "The torturers from the start," said Amnesty, "had said that the United States supported them and that was what counted."

In November 1973, a falling-out within the Greek inner circle culminated in the ousting of Papadopoulos and his replacement by Col. Demetrios loannidis, Commander of the Military Police, torturer, graduate of American training in anti-subversive techniques, confidant of the CIA. loannidis named as prime minister a Greek-American, A. Androutsopoulos, who came to Greece after the Second World War as an official employee of the CIA, a fact of which Mr. Androutsopoulos had often boasted.

Eight months later, the loannidis regime overthrew the government of Cyprus. It was a fatal miscalculation. Turkey invaded Cyprus and the reverberations in Athens resulted in the military giving way to a civilian government. The Greek nightmare had come to an end.

Much of the story of American complicity in the 1967 coup and its aftermath may never be known. At the trials held in 1975 of junta members and torturers, many witnesses made reference to the American role. This may have been the reason a separate investigation of this aspect was scheduled to be undertaken by the Greek Court of Appeals. But it appears that no information resulting from this inquiry, if it actually took place, was ever announced. Philip Deane, upon returning to Greece several months after the civilian government took over, was told by leading politicians that "for the sake of preserving good relations with the US, the evidence of US complicity will not be made fully public".

Andreas Papandreou had been arrested at the time of the coup and held in prison for eight months. Shortly after his release, he and his wife Margaret visited the American ambassador, Phillips Talbot, in Athens. Papandreou related the following:

"I asked Talbot whether America could have intervened the night of the coup, to prevent the death of democracy in Greece. He denied that they could have done anything about lt. Then Margaret asked a critical question What if the coup had been a Communist or a Leftist coup? Talbot answered without hesitation. Then, of course, they would have intervened, and they would have crushed the coup."
Superpower07
25-08-2004, 13:37
Anti-Greek to the core, huh? I guess if we're against Greece, we're against the country to 1st develop a democracy . . . that is NOT good; Thank you Bush for putting us in this f*cked up spot
Biff Pileon
25-08-2004, 13:46
Anti-Greek to the core, huh? I guess if we're against Greece, we're against the country to 1st develop a democracy . . . that is NOT good; Thank you Bush for putting us in this f*cked up spot

Thats funny!! You blame Bush for something that happened in the 1960's? THATS a real stretch. Greece can take care of Greece....If they and the Turks want to fight it out...let them.
Dalradia
25-08-2004, 14:27
You sound just like NWV.
Dalradia
25-08-2004, 14:36
It does p!$$ me off when the US governemnt pushes for the EU to let Turkey in.

Turkey is barely in europe, if turkey gets let in then Russia and Kazakhstan must be considered eligable to join. Lets get Romania in first, then invite/start talks with: Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, Albania, Macedonia (yeah greek-boy, drop the FYRO), Albania and Croatia.

Once we've got them in, we can work on the Bosnia/Serbia/Herzegovina/Montenegro problem.

Serious consideration should be given before expanding further than that.
Kanabia
25-08-2004, 14:41
It does p!$$ me off when the US governemnt pushes for the EU to let Turkey in.

Turkey is barely in europe, if turkey gets let in then Russia and Kazakhstan must be considered eligable to join. Lets get Romania in first, then invite/start talks with: Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, Albania, Macedonia (yeah greek-boy, drop the FYRO), Albania and Croatia.

Once we've got them in, we can work on the Bosnia/Serbia/Herzegovina/Montenegro problem.

Serious consideration should be given before expanding further than that.

What's wrong with letting Russia in the EU? They're European.
Bunnyducks
25-08-2004, 14:50
What makes you think Russia would want to join the EU, even if invited to?
Dalradia
25-08-2004, 14:50
An anti-greek comment: I don't like the Greek government because they sanctioned Macedonia:

"International recognition of The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia's (F.Y.R.O.M.) independence from Yugoslavia in 1991 was delayed by Greece's objection to the new state's use of what it considered a Hellenic name and symbols. Greece finally lifted its trade blockade in 1995, and the two countries agreed to normalize relations, despite continued disagreement over F.Y.R.O.M.'s use of "Macedonia." ...a Greek economic embargo over a dispute about the country's constitutional name and flag hindered economic growth until 1996." CIA world factbook

Can't a country decide what it's going to be called? I a name really worth bringing on economic sanctions? We normally reserve those for somewhat more serious crimes, than wanting to use their own name!
Thunderland
25-08-2004, 14:50
I confess to not knowing the Greek side of the story very well. However, I do know the Turkish side of the story being as my college roommate was from Turkey and lots of my friends live there. Judging on what I've read, what you've said is by and large your opinion and is biased based upon your view of the conflict. I'm pretty sure if we were to ask a person from Turkey their slant would be much different from yours. Please consider that fact.
Chess Squares
25-08-2004, 14:52
its america what do you expect
Dalradia
25-08-2004, 14:54
What makes you think Russia would want to join the EU, even if invited to?

I didn't say they did. In fact I know they don't, or Putin's government doesn't anyway. President Putin has shown a determined effort NOT to "Europeanise" Russia.

That isn't particularly interesting anyway; Kanabia's question is much more important.
Dalradia
25-08-2004, 14:56
What's wrong with letting Russia in the EU? They're European.

Yes, many of them are, but this is far to big a debate to have in a thread about Greece, care to start a new thread on "Russia joining the EU"?

As stated above, Russia has shown no interest in joining, but wither it wants to be or no, should it be invited to join?
Kanabia
25-08-2004, 15:00
Yes, many of them are, but this is far to big a debate to have in a thread about Greece, care to start a new thread on "Russia joining the EU"?

As stated above, Russia has shown no interest in joining, but wither it wants to be or no, should it be invited to join?

Meh, It's not an issue that really affects me, being about as far away as you can get from Europe. I just think that they're a European nation. If you want to discuss, drop me a TG :)
HannibalSmith
25-08-2004, 20:13
We aren't anti greek, why look at all of these pretty greek owned diners, and gyro stands. The juice is good.
Colodia
25-08-2004, 20:18
Are you going to accuse the government of being anti-Greek for seeing to the Romans as their guiding light and building their governmental buildings based on their art? I just wanted to say that little bit. Don't go too far into my posts, they are not contributing to any debate.

And, I don't see why the EU shouldn't let a country from anywhere join in. It's a union, not an exclusive club only for those lucky enough.

Now THAT'S up for debate.
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 22:05
And, I don't see why the EU shouldn't let a country from anywhere join in. It's a union, not an exclusive club only for those lucky enough.


Give mexico thier land back!


see?

Stay the f*** out of our affairs. Why the hell is it anything to do with you if we don't let a military controlled Government which locks people up and tortures them for 'treachery against the turkish nation' (which basically means anything from starting a movement for real democratic change, to kicking a baloon with the turkish flag on it).

Why do you Americans think it is your right to come over to our continent and tell us how to do things?

You don't like it when we tell you to stop your unjust wars?

We don't like it when you come over and act like you can say what you want.

I'm sick of this attitude, I'm just sick to the f****** teeth of it. I'm sick of your arrogance, I'm sick of your beliefs that your way is the divine way

I'm sick of your hypocrisy about 'terrorist states' and 'dictatorships' when you have quite clearly participated in and supported the first. and propped up the second the world over.

I'm sick of you all. Your all little minions of the corporations. You are taught from an early age that your only duties involve screaming patriotic slogans every time a war comes along, consuming all that the corporations have to offer and take part in the political process once every 4 years. Then sit back and watch the 'representatives' do whatever they like - always in the interests of 'morality' and 'freedom'.

And do you even understand the issues regarding Turkey?

Do you understand they occupy over 35% of another country - even though they are a NATO Power.

Do you understood they partook in ethnic cleansing?

Do you understand the power the military has in thier politics?

Do you understand the genocides in Armenia and Kurdistan?

Do you understand the complete and utter undemocratic regime that they operate under?

Do you understand anything?

Stay out, stay out of our affairs. Because, quite simply mr. BushwasputinofficebyGod!!!!! Its nothing to do with you, or the rest of your intellectually depleted electorate.

the Romans as their guiding light and building their governmental buildings based on their art? I just wanted to say that little bit. Don't go too far into my posts, they are not contributing to any debate.


Is that why your constitution was originally planned to be written in Greek, and your 'founding fathers' wanted to follow the Greek Model?
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 22:08
I confess to not knowing the Greek side of the story very well. However, I do know the Turkish side of the story being as my college roommate was from Turkey and lots of my friends live there. Judging on what I've read, what you've said is by and large your opinion and is biased based upon your view of the conflict. I'm pretty sure if we were to ask a person from Turkey their slant would be much different from yours. Please consider that fact.

What fact?

You never raised any points, nor did you counter anything I quoted from the book.

You came up with a thing called rhetoric.

You claim that an opinion is invalidated because it is bias.

Well I have some news (no not the corporate kind you get in UNCLESAMUSA), the points I made were facts deal with them, and the facts in the article rather than saying.

"Welllll........ my roomate was Turkish and so he thinks genocide is ok because his country did it."
Colodia
25-08-2004, 22:10
Now see, I'm glad you were able to write all that down. But there was a major part of my most you misunderstood.

And, I don't see why the EU shouldn't let a country from anywhere join in. It's a union, not an exclusive club only for those lucky enough.

I never said "LET ALL COUNTRIES GO INTO THE EU! IT'S NO AN EXCLUSIVE CLUB!" like you suggested:

Give mexico thier land back!


see?

Stay the f*** out of our affairs.

Saying I don't understand an opinion versus TELLING someone to do something are not one and the same.
Arenestho
25-08-2004, 22:11
The Turks let the US and other nations use their military bases to strike at the Middle-East terrorist networks, civilians and governments. If the Turks are charged for all their crimes the US and other nations would no longer be welcome there. This is the same reason for which the Armenian Genocide has never been recognized by the US.
Colodia
25-08-2004, 22:14
By the way, thanks to your post, your more ignorant than any American I know.

Why do you Americans think it is your right to come over to our continent and tell us how to do things?

> Because we don't care what you say, of course...we get people talking in this manner all the time. Should we listen to what such people say?

You don't like it when we tell you to stop your unjust wars?

> Oh dear, you think we're all Republicans! There there....

We don't like it when you come over and act like you can say what you want.

> You do NOT have freedom of speech then?


Seriously, get real. Before you start accusing, try to learn from their follys rather than commit them yourself. You. Have. FAILED!
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 22:18
Saying I don't understand an opinion versus TELLING someone to do something are not one and the same.

Turkey doesn't belong in the EU, and the only reason the US wants it thier is as a counterbalancing force against those that want to make the EU a stronger more united voice. These are the concerns of the US - And as usual, they think they can go around telling people whatever they feel like. Least of all telling us that we should let a torture advocating, genocide committing, anti-democratic country in the EU.

I'm simply sick of the US starting Wars that affect all of us. Not least of whom the Civilians that the bomber pilots murder (oh wait you say - It can't be murder if they dropped thier bombs from so high up! After all They can't see them!) as well as the disgusting behaviour of the savages that constitute that make up the majority of the US Army and Marines, yeh we saw thier true colours in Abu Ghraib.

But the unthinkable happened a couple of months ago, your president told us how to run our affairs. And to put it simply, we don't like that here in Europe.
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 22:19
You. Have. FAILED!

Like you failed to prevent the legitimate attacks against the Pentagon on 9.11 :)
Colodia
25-08-2004, 22:20
Like you failed to prevent the legitimate attacks against the Pentagon on 9.11 :)
Really? I didn't know it was up to me when I haven't even passed grade school yet.
Esprit-Ouvert
25-08-2004, 22:21
Thank you Bush for putting us in this f*cked up spot

Bush never put your nation anywhere but where it has been since the Revolution: on a course in compliance with the doctrine of Manifest Destiny.
Opal Isle
25-08-2004, 22:22
Eh...seeing as Turkey is partially part of Europe geographically (like Russia and for some reason I thought there was one more), they should be part of the EU, eh? (Now I get flamed for telling the EU what to do...even though most of the time when it comes to stuff the US does, I take the EU stand point...)
Colodia
25-08-2004, 22:22
Turkey doesn't belong in the EU, and the only reason the US wants it thier is as a counterbalancing force against those that want to make the EU a stronger more united voice. These are the concerns of the US - And as usual, they think they can go around telling people whatever they feel like. Least of all telling us that we should let a torture advocating, genocide committing, anti-democratic country in the EU.
Okay, now...your defining the U.S. government as the "U.S."...I hate that, it's misleading, and it only rises flames.

I'm simply sick of the US starting Wars that affect all of us. Not least of whom the Civilians that the bomber pilots murder (oh wait you say - It can't be murder if they dropped thier bombs from so high up! After all They can't see them!) as well as the disgusting behaviour of the savages that constitute that make up the majority of the US Army and Marines, yeh we saw thier true colours in Abu Ghraib.
Well done, you've proven to be EVEN MORE MISINFORMED! Yaaaaaay!

But the unthinkable happened a couple of months ago, your president told us how to run our affairs. And to put it simply, we don't like that here in Europe.

Boo ****ing hoo....try that in the nation he runs. Ya think we bow down to the President every morning?
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 22:23
Really? I didn't know it was up to me when I haven't even passed grade school yet.

As you probably noticed. You can be referred to in a collective term. You FAILED. And one day, when you are no longer a superpower, people will not forget the suffering that you caused. Believe me, it will be somebody elses turn to play 'big bully', and I'd like to see the American Public come to the realisation of what bombing is and what it actually does.
Colodia
25-08-2004, 22:25
As you probably noticed. You can be referred to in a collective term. You FAILED. And one day, when you are no longer a superpower, people will not forget the suffering that you caused. Believe me, it will be somebody elses turn to play 'big bully', and I'd like to see the American Public come to the realisation of what bombing is and what it actually does.
Well then, I sure as hell can sleep easy because you ain't gonna be the big bully anytime soon. Neither you, nor your country, and definatly not your union.

Oops, did I just tell the EU what to do?
Bunnyducks
25-08-2004, 22:26
Why not let it slide Opal. :)
Either somebody here has had too much sugar or not taken his Ritalin.
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 22:27
Well then, I sure as hell can sleep easy because you ain't gonna be the big bully anytime soon. Neither you, nor your country, and definatly not your union.

Oops, did I just tell the EU what to do?

No you just proved your ignorance :p

Let me guess, you are another believer in the American '1000 year reich', eh?

Oh God, some serious shocks are going to hit you within the next decade.
Colodia
25-08-2004, 22:27
Eh...seeing as Turkey is partially part of Europe geographically (like Russia and for some reason I thought there was one more), they should be part of the EU, eh? (Now I get flamed for telling the EU what to do...even though most of the time when it comes to stuff the US does, I take the EU stand point...)
Opal, I checked your site out. Have you put ANYONE from NS there? I haven't seen any on your rants page. Just some IM conversations...bleh
Opal Isle
25-08-2004, 22:28
Eh...yea, despite the fact that the US may be on the downhill slope, it's not going to lose its status any time in the immediate future so just hold your horses...anyway, does the US bully the UK, the previous world superpower? No. It will be a long time before the US is bullied.
Colodia
25-08-2004, 22:28
No you just proved your ignorance :p

Let me guess, you are another believer in the American '1000 year reich', eh?

Oh God, some serious shocks are going to hit you within the next decade.
Let me guess, you are another believer that all Americans think the same exact way, aren't you?

Oh God, some seriousy shocks are going to hit you within the next few months, hopefully November.
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 22:28
Eh...seeing as Turkey is partially part of Europe geographically (like Russia and for some reason I thought there was one more), they should be part of the EU, eh? (Now I get flamed for telling the EU what to do...even though most of the time when it comes to stuff the US does, I take the EU stand point...)

So geographical lie of the land counts as the primary reason for membership?

Oh right, just ignore the human rights abuses, mass genocide and occupation.

You know, they don't exist and everything...... :rolleyes:

God its time like these when you make me wonder whether you really did make those events on 9.11 happen. What being vengeful and all you probably would have passed breaking point when the age of american imperialism entered.
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 22:30
Oh God, some seriousy shocks are going to hit you within the next few months, hopefully November.

Oh yeh Kerry!

Can you explain whether he has any clear policy iniatives to change the foreign policy.

Because to tell you the truth, I couldn't give a s*** whether or not he changes the domestic agenda so there are 52 million people in poverty rather than 53 (what an achievement Corporate Kerry).

All of them bow before the corporations, democrat or republican.
Opal Isle
25-08-2004, 22:30
Opal, I checked your site out. Have you put ANYONE from NS there? I haven't seen any on your rants page. Just some IM conversations...bleh
1) It isn't my site.
2) It isn't very old.
3) My disclaimer has only been up since yesterday.
4) The person who updates the site is still trying to get the internet in his dorm working. I do have some stuff I want to update, but not sure if I have any NS stuff.
5) Just because I give myself the right (via my disclaimer) doesn't mean I'm obligated to use it. I don't own a gun (2nd amendment gives me that right) and people who takes vowes of silence still have the right to free speech...in fact, even with the right to religion, we have athiests. In other words, that wasn't a very good argument you have there...
Esprit-Ouvert
25-08-2004, 22:31
Oh God, some seriousy shocks are going to hit you within the next few months, hopefully November.

Do you honestly believe an election will cure the ills that plague the US?
It does not matter who is president, it matters that the US has already been hisorically molded into the capitalist monster that it is. No president can stop that. Presidents are figureheads for corporate interests. Any conscious individual can see through that facade. oh, aparently not.
Opal Isle
25-08-2004, 22:32
So geographical lie of the land counts as the primary reason for membership?

Oh right, just ignore the human rights abuses.

You know, they don't exist and everything...... :rolleyes:
well...it is how the American union was formed...based on geography and not human rights records...
unless...you just want to ignore slavery...
Colodia
25-08-2004, 22:32
1) It isn't my site.
2) It isn't very old.
3) My disclaimer has only been up since yesterday.
4) The person who updates the site is still trying to get the internet in his dorm working. I do have some stuff I want to update, but not sure if I have any NS stuff.
5) Just because I give myself the right (via my disclaimer) doesn't mean I'm obligated to use it. I don't own a gun (2nd amendment gives me that right) and people who takes vowes of silence still have the right to free speech...in fact, even with the right to religion, we have athiests. In other words, that wasn't a very good argument you have there...
Argument?...


I just asked a simple question, a simple "I can't, not my site" would've sufficed
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 22:34
Eh...yea, despite the fact that the US may be on the downhill slope, it's not going to lose its status any time in the immediate future so just hold your horses...anyway, does the US bully the UK, the previous world superpower? No. It will be a long time before the US is bullied.

Die Tausand Jahren Reich!

And the corporations will feed them with even more of this stuff?

What next?

America is a force for good? :D
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 22:34
well...it is how the American union was formed...based on geography and not human rights records...
unless...you just want to ignore slavery...

This isn't the 19th century I'm afraid. Human rights count for alot and we certainly don't base our model on yours.
Colodia
25-08-2004, 22:35
Do you honestly believe an election will cure the ills that plague the US?
It does not matter who is president, it matters that the US has already been hisorically molded into the capitalist monster that it is. No president can stop that. Presidents are figureheads for corporate interests. Any conscious individual can see through that facade. oh, aparently not.
You remind me of NWV, doesn't he sound like NWV?


Anyway, Presidents make all the difference. Open up a history book sometime. Don't all Europeons know more about America than the Americans themselves? Enjoy your own medicine, I am forced to suck it down every god damn day from ignorants who don't think that Americans have an individual mind.
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 22:36
Do you honestly believe an election will cure the ills that plague the US?
It does not matter who is president, it matters that the US has already been hisorically molded into the capitalist monster that it is. No president can stop that. Presidents are figureheads for corporate interests. Any conscious individual can see through that facade. oh, aparently not.

Finally!

Somebody who actually speaks the truth.

Americans are so pumped up on the drug that Kerry is 'liberal' (which is rubbish - hes a conservative), I'd hate to think what they'd say if they saw the liberal paradise that is the great land of Norway.
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 22:37
You remind me of NWV, doesn't he sound like NWV?


Anyway, Presidents make all the difference. Open up a history book sometime. Don't all Europeons know more about America than the Americans themselves? Enjoy your own medicine, I am forced to suck it down every god damn day from ignorants who don't think that Americans have an individual mind.

Well you don't - America is run by corporations. Accept it and get on with consuming and shouting out the slogans. It's what Uncle Sam would have wanted.
Opal Isle
25-08-2004, 22:39
So now it's wrong to like one candidate's corporate backing more than anothers?...
Bunnyducks
25-08-2004, 22:39
well...it is how the American union was formed...based on geography ...
That was a joke, right? Ehh... geography... so if one EU state is connected to non-EU state, we should invite that country in with open arms? C'mon... how about Canada then? Mexico? SA?
Colodia
25-08-2004, 22:39
Well you don't - America is run by corporations. Accept it and get on with consuming and shouting out the slogans. It's what Uncle Sam would have wanted.
Uncle Sam actually would've wanted something of yours, but I won't get into that.


Oh, and you think you bothered to ask an American before you told him what he knew?

You just friggin said you hate Americans for telling you Europeons what to do.


What's it like being a hypocrite?
Colodia
25-08-2004, 22:40
That was a joke, right? Ehh... geography... so if one EU state is connected to non-EU state, we should invite that country in with open arms? C'mon... how about Canada then? Mexico? SA?
I don't see why not.
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 22:42
I don't see why not.

I do.

Especially when the nation in question abuses human rights and commits genocide, as well as denys basic civil rights for certain ethnic groups.

But of course, you never backed up your argument.
Colodia
25-08-2004, 22:43
I do.

Especially when the nation in question abuses human rights and commits genocide, as well as denys basic civil rights for certain ethnic groups.

But of course, you never backed up your argument.
But of course, you started a dozen arguments with no facts, proof, or sense.
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 22:44
Uncle Sam actually would've wanted something of yours, but I won't get into that.


Oh, and you think you bothered to ask an American before you told him what he knew?

You just friggin said you hate Americans for telling you Europeons what to do.


What's it like being a hypocrite?

I never told you what to do.

You can revert half your population back to a stone age standard of living through hypercapitalism for all I care.

Just don't tell us what to do. And don't express an opinion if you know nothing of the subjhect at hand. You have already said you would allow states in if they committed human rights violations. And that you hated Europeans, and to be honest, you are becoming very boring.
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 22:45
But of course, you started a dozen arguments with no facts, proof, or sense.

Like you just did? :p

Have you actually countered any of the points made on the original post with evidence? Well, answer me, have you countered any of them?

Turkey's crime in Armenia and Cyprus as well as Kurdistan are well documented.

Thier interior violations are to a lesser extent documented though.

http://theory.rockefeller.edu/~giannak/turkey.html
Antebellum South
25-08-2004, 22:45
I never told you what to do.

You can revert half your population back to a stone age standard of living through hypercapitalism for all I care.

Just don't tell us what to do. And don't express an opinion if you know nothing of the subjhect at hand. You have already said you would allow states in if they committed human rights violations. And that you hated Europeans, and to be honest, you are becoming very boring.

The U.S. is one of the least capitalist nations on earth.
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 22:48
The U.S. is one of the least capitalist nations on earth.

Yeh I know, and people who live in the south of America have high IQ's!
Opal Isle
25-08-2004, 22:48
That was a joke, right? Ehh... geography... so if one EU state is connected to non-EU state, we should invite that country in with open arms? C'mon... how about Canada then? Mexico? SA?
A small part of Turkey is geographically part of Europe, just like Russia is. I'm not talking about whether or not the countries border. I'm talking about we're talking about denying European nations the privilidge of being part of the European Union...
Anyway, Canada and Mexico aren't part of the United States because they were formed during the age of colonization (like the US) but by competing nations and there has not been a real movement to build a stronger tie between the three nations, however, you have heard of NAFTA right? Before the EU, the 3 North American countries were tighter than most European countries.
Antebellum South
25-08-2004, 22:49
Yeh I know, and people who live in the south of America have high IQ's!
Err whatever. You can't disprove my statement.
Opal Isle
25-08-2004, 22:49
Yeh I know, and people who live in the south of America have high IQ's!
Some do.
Bunnyducks
25-08-2004, 22:50
I don't see why not.
OK. Why not Russia if it was only geography. You aren't seriously saying the European Union should invite Russia to join JUST because it is technically partly an European country?
1st of all, they wouldn't join if we fooking pleeded them to.
They want to maintain their 'super'-power status... and 2nd: if we did and they wanted to... they wouldn't met the acquis... like ever.

EDIT: OH! the acquis being 'acquis communitaire'. All member states must meet the requirements of that... social, economical, human rights... etc...
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 22:52
Err whatever. You can't disprove my statement.

*Sighs*

9/11 was a good day.

But... back to the issue, The US is one of the most deregulated economies in the world in the 3 main areas. Consumer Rights, Workers rights and The Environment. Everything is privatized and you have a gigantic wealth gap, wait, I mean a huge huge huge wealth gap.
Opal Isle
25-08-2004, 22:53
OK. Why not Russia if it was only geography. You aren't seriously saying the European Union should invite Russia to join JUST because it is technically partly an European country?
1st of all, they wouldn't join if we fooking pleeded them to.
They want to maintain their 'super'-power status... and 2nd: if we did and they wanted to... they wouldn't met the acquis... like ever.

and 13th of all; that MUST be NWV.
I think that if Russia wanted to be part of the EU, they should be allowed. And if the EU won't allow Russia or Turkey to join if they want, it should be called the UoMoE (Union of Most of Europe) or something...
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 22:56
I think that if Russia wanted to be part of the EU, they should be allowed. And if the EU won't allow Russia or Turkey to join if they want, it should be called the UoMoE (Union of Most of Europe) or something...

Nope, you want Turkey to join so it will destabilize a good process. We are making progress in many areas and are now very anti-american in many areas. One day maybe we will even praise the 9 11 attacks for the glory that they were.

But anyway, it appears human rights are not an issue with you concerning membership of unions. So I'll just leave you to wallow in your own paradox.
Opal Isle
25-08-2004, 22:57
Nope, you want Turkey to join so it will destabilize a good process.
Eh...where did I say that? You know not a fucking thing about me. Don't kid yourself.
Bunnyducks
25-08-2004, 22:57
Like U.S.O.M.O.A (United States of most of America?)
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 23:00
Eh...where did I say that? You know not a fucking thing about me. Don't kid yourself.

Stay out of our lands, they are liberal and we are proud of them being that way. Do not try and bring your infidel like ways to Europe, do not try and contaminate our culture with your patriotism.
Antebellum South
25-08-2004, 23:00
*Sighs*

9/11 was a good day.

But... back to the issue, The US is one of the most deregulated economies in the world in the 3 main areas. Consumer Rights, Workers rights and The Environment. Everything is privatized and you have a gigantic wealth gap, wait, I mean a huge huge huge wealth gap.

Laughable. Granted we aren't as socialistic as Europe, but America's social security, welfare, medicare, medicaid, are more comprehensive than the vast majority of nations in the world. Go visit China, likely the next superpower in this world... China's income tax rate is below 5% for everyone, there is no mandatory sales tax, extremely limited welfare program that is continuing to shrink, appalling environmental record that has ruined the Yellow River valley, theres smog everywhere because factories aren't regulated. Corruption and corporate fraud runs rampant because of lack of business regulations. The wealth inequality in the US can't compare with China. SOcial injustice in CHina is out of control. THis is the same with most other emerging nations including India which looks to be China's rival for economic and political dominance.
Opal Isle
25-08-2004, 23:00
Like U.S.O.M.O.A (United States of most of America?)
If Mexico or Canada (or parts of Mexico or Canada) wanted to join our Union, they could apply to congress to become a state...I just really don't think either sovereign nations would want to become a territory of a larger sovereign nation because, as the US government is already in place, by joining, they'd become part of the US picture. It's kind of a different situation...
Opal Isle
25-08-2004, 23:01
Stay out of our lands, they are liberal and we are proud of them being that way. Do not try and bring your infidel like ways to Europe, do not try and contaminate our culture with your patriotism.
Eh, you know absolutey shite about me or my views. All I know is that the EU is being unfair in disallowing other European nations to join...
Bunnyducks
25-08-2004, 23:01
Please let's have interaction. Why not try to have discussion... if our culture is too weak to counter your's... please take over. Please make sense NWV.
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 23:02
Laughable. Granted we aren't as socialistic as Europe, but America's social security, welfare, medicare, medicaid, are more comprehensive than the vast majority of nations in the world. Go visit China, likely the next superpower in this world... China's income tax rate is below 5% for everyone, there is no mandatory sales tax, extremely limited welfare program that is continuing to shrink, appalling environmental record that has ruined the Yellow River valley, smog everywhere. Corruption and corporate fraud runs rampant because of lack of business regulations. The wealth inequality in the US can't compare with China. SOcial injustice in CHina is out of control. THis is the same with most other emerging nations including India which looks to be China's rival for economic and political dominance.

China is an REDC, we are talking about MEDC's.
Opal Isle
25-08-2004, 23:02
Nwv = ?
Colodia
25-08-2004, 23:02
He must be NWV, I'm getting a mod to check up.
Colodia
25-08-2004, 23:03
Nwv = ?
Nazi Weaponized Virus

the same guy who COULDN'T wait 2 weeks to cool off, but had to flame people with another name.
Antebellum South
25-08-2004, 23:03
China is an REDC, we are talking about MEDC's.
So in your opinion appalling social injustice is okay if it happens in a developing economy
Opal Isle
25-08-2004, 23:03
edit: q answered.
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 23:05
Eh, you know absolutey shite about me or my views. All I know is that the EU is being unfair in disallowing other European nations to join...

Don't you listen?

I explained to you that human rights and mass genocide as well as well developed institulianized racism against different ethnic groups in Turkey are, strangely enough, issues. For argument's sake if Saudi Arabia was nearer to europe, would we allow them in simply because they are close in geographical terms? No, because that is a non-issue, the issues are whether a member nation fulfills the criteria. Which Turkey does not.

Now go back to singing star spangled banner
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 23:07
Nazi Weaponized Virus

the same guy who COULDN'T wait 2 weeks to cool off, but had to flame people with another name.

I thank you for comparing me to another admirable anti-american (he currently resides in our region, under a different name which I shall not give), but I'm afraid I am not the nation.
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 23:08
So in your opinion appalling social injustice is okay if it happens in a developing economy

Yep, because the state cannot handle social equality. It simply isn't feasible by the laws of economics.

American on the other hand, can well afford to provide for its citizens. But it doesn't.

Healthcare is a right, not a priviledge.
Von Witzleben
25-08-2004, 23:09
Nope, you want Turkey to join so it will destabilize a good process.
You tell them.
Colodia
25-08-2004, 23:10
I thank you for comparing me to another admirable anti-american (he currently resides in our region, under a different name which I shall not give), but I'm afraid I am not the nation.
Think what you want, but denial always comes before the IP check.

(and did you NOT say you were new?)
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 23:11
You tell them.

Oh don't worry :)

When I'm through with these 'patriots' they'll be singing so many patriotic tunes to block out the facts that thier ear drums will explode.
Colodia
25-08-2004, 23:13
Oh don't worry :)

When I'm through with these 'patriots' they'll be singing so many patriotic tunes to block out the facts that thier ear drums will explode.
bite me

*salts up arm*

Or am I too patriotic for you?

*starts singing the Star-Spangled Banner*
Opal Isle
25-08-2004, 23:13
Yep, because the state cannot handle social equality. It simply isn't feasible by the laws of economics.

American on the other hand, can well afford to provide for its citizens. But it doesn't.

Healthcare is a right, not a priviledge.
We have to pay for our military, which is far more important. By the way, please stop calling me an uber-patriot as you really do nothing about me and are basing that statement off only one of my opinions (which has nothing to do with nationalism, as people from anywhere could have the same opinion I do, and it is a legitimate argument, like it or not).
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 23:14
bite me

*salts up arm*

Or am I too patriotic for you?

*starts singing the Star-Spangled Banner*

Bring it on.... 'Patriot'

*Starts singing 'Ode to Joy'*
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 23:15
We have to pay for our military, which is far more important. By the way, please stop calling me an uber-patriot as you really do nothing about me and are basing that statement off only one of my opinions (which has nothing to do with nationalism, as people from anywhere could have the same opinion I do, and it is a legitimate argument, like it or not).

A Military would not be so important if it were not needed to defend your overseas economic interests - which end up upsetting the populaces of other countries.
Opal Isle
25-08-2004, 23:16
A Military would not be so important if it were not needed to defend your overseas economic interests - which end up upsetting the populaces of other countries.
Europeans = suck at identifying sarcasm.
Colodia
25-08-2004, 23:17
Bring it on.... 'Patriot'

*Starts singing 'Ode to Joy'*
Oh, say, can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hail'd at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, thro' the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watch'd, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof thro' the night that our flag was still there.
O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore dimly seen thro' the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?

Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected, now shines on the stream:
'T is the star-spangled banner: O, long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!


And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
A home and a country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash'd out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

O, thus be it ever when freemen shall stand,
Between their lov'd homes and the war's desolation;
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the heav'n-rescued land
Praise the Pow'r that hath made and preserv'd us as a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust"
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!




You can get the rhythem of the song at the next Olympics medal ceremony. :D
Opal Isle
25-08-2004, 23:18
You can get the rhythem of the song at the next Olympics medal ceremony. :D
LOL ;)
Opal Isle
25-08-2004, 23:19
By the way, rhythm has no E in it.
Colodia
25-08-2004, 23:20
By the way, rhythm has no E in it.
by the time I figured it out, I already posted the message and was working on something else. I let it go.
Hellenic States
25-08-2004, 23:21
you see di national front man dem, dem a dirty kuffar
di ku klux klan dem a dirty kuffar
di bnp man dem a dirt kuffar
ronald regan was a dirty kuffar
di minister tony blair him a dirty kuffar
di one mister bush him a dirty kuffar
di national front dem a dirt kuffar
tro dem in di fire"

Peace to Hamas and the Hizbollah
OBL [bin-Laden] pulled me like a shiny star
Like the way we destroyed them two towers ha-ha
The minister Tony Blair, there my dirty Kuffar
The one mister Bush, there my dirty Kuffar...
Throw them on the fire
Antebellum South
25-08-2004, 23:22
Yep, because the state cannot handle social equality. It simply isn't feasible by the laws of economics.
Utter ignorance. You do not know the magnitude injustice and corruption in China. Everyone there knows that the government is really messed up right now... China is FULLY CAPABLE of funding a very decent social security system except the corruption and mismanagement has wasted billions of dollars that could be spent on positive social change... for example the construction of Beijing West Railroad station is a high profile fiasco... 200 billion renminbi spent building it in the 1980s, then it collapsed and the government spent 300 billion to rebuild it. Now it is collapsing again and 600 billion more is being spent... within 20 years there were two structural failures in Asia's largest railroad station! This is because contractors bribed officials to settle for cheap, crappy materials. And in Hangzhou the pavements have been built, torn out, and rebuilt three times in the past few years in luxurious marble. What a fucking waste of money that could be spent on social services. Don't give be bs about how China can't afford services... corrupt officials have wasted public money on useless projects and their own expensive tastes. China could have a basic but still very comprehensive health care just from saving money that otherwise would go to the pockets of criminals and corrupt contractors.

Also poor THird World countries can have excellent welfare... for example Cuba or Sri Lanka pre-Tamil war. You are just excusing the corrupt behavior of strongment in CHina, India, and other developing nations.

American on the other hand, can well afford to provide for its citizens. But it doesn't.

Healthcare is a right, not a priviledge.
I agree that the US should have better social services.

We weren't talking about REDCs/MEDCs or that bullshit... I clearly stated that the US is far less capitalist than most nations in the world, not just developed or undeveloped nations... you have failed to disprove my point.
Bunnyducks
25-08-2004, 23:23
by the time I figured it out, I already posted the message and was working on something else. I let it go.
SO! you admit your ignorance and just say you are good team players!? (Why can't I pipe down when there's beer around...?)
Colodia
25-08-2004, 23:24
you see di national front man dem, dem a dirty kuffar
di ku klux klan dem a dirty kuffar
di bnp man dem a dirt kuffar
ronald regan was a dirty kuffar
di minister tony blair him a dirty kuffar
di one mister bush him a dirty kuffar
di national front dem a dirt kuffar
tro dem in di fire"

Peace to Hamas and the Hizbollah
OBL [bin-Laden] pulled me like a shiny star
Like the way we destroyed them two towers ha-ha
The minister Tony Blair, there my dirty Kuffar
The one mister Bush, there my dirty Kuffar...
Throw them on the fire
Yeah, I don't see a problem with that one.


*Is a proud member of the Ku Sux Klan :D*

Note: Ku SUX Klan, if you skim through lines.
Colodia
25-08-2004, 23:25
SO! you admit your ignorance and just say you are good team players!? (Why can't I pipe down when there's beer around...?)
I'll...admit that saying that an American liberal is a Europeon conservative is equal to $1 = 1.5 Euro or whatever.

Think that over.
Opal Isle
25-08-2004, 23:28
I'll...admit that saying that an American liberal is a Europeon conservative is equal to $1 = 1.5 Euro or whatever.

Think that over.
Well...there are exceptions to everything...
Letila is probably much farther left then any European wants to even imagine...
Bunnyducks
25-08-2004, 23:29
Oh! Take It easy... It was supposed to be funny... but i decided to delete the message... instead i managed to delete the funny part... and that shite is what was left.
I'd say 1$ American liberal equals 2Euro European conservative though ;)
Colodia
25-08-2004, 23:29
Well...there are exceptions to everything...
Letila is probably much farther left then any European wants to even imagine...
Kinda like an uncharted person on the political map of society, eh?
Von Witzleben
25-08-2004, 23:31
Well...there are exceptions to everything...
Letila is probably much farther left then any European wants to even imagine...
If you consider anarchists to be left. We got more then enough of those here as well.
Opal Isle
25-08-2004, 23:32
If you consider anarchists to be left. We got more the enough of those here as well.
Not all anarchists, anarcho-communist however...
Myrth
25-08-2004, 23:35
I'm new to these forums

My tools say different.

What part of 'banned' do you not understand?

http://www.satanstephen.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ban.jpg

Off you go again.


http://www.satanstephen.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DrChaotica.jpg (http://www.satanstephen.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/taunt1.mp3)
Myrth
Ruler of the Cosmos
Forum Moderator