NationStates Jolt Archive

Scott Cramer, owner of a mail-order business on E. Lake Street in Minneapolis, Northern Sun Merchandising, got the stunning news Monday when he was told by an Atlanta company that he must immediately stop selling his line of Che T-shirts, mugs and posters.

The company, Fashion Victim (http://www.fashionvictim.com/), informed Cramer that it has owned exclusive rights to this famous Guevara image in North America for two years.

"I was told that if I wanted to continue to sell T-shirts, I would have to order from them," Cramer said.

After getting over the shock that a single company may own the famous image of a revolutionary icon, Cramer was in for another shock.

He asked the owner of Fashion Victim where their Che T-shirts are produced.
"Honduras," was the answer.
This is called piling irony on top of irony.
Guevara is seen as a symbol of power of the people. Most progressives believe Honduras is home to vile sweatshops where workers have no rights to organize and are paid a pittance.

"I told them that if I buy T-shirts made in Honduras, my customers are going to be very unhappy," Cramer said. "I said if I would make a big enough order, could they have them made in the U.S.? They said, 'No.'...

The short answer: Fashion Victim bought rights to the photo from the estate of Cuban news photographer Alberto Korda, who took the photo in 1960....

...With Smirnoff out of the picture, everything was back to normal. Companies such as Northern Sun continued using the image on T-shirts and other items with no objection from Korda, who said he would protest use of the photo only when it "dishonored" Che's memory.

"I am not averse to its reproduction by those who wish to propagate his memory and the cause of social justice throughout the world," he said.
Korda died in 2001.

Northern Sun Page and full story (http://www.northernsun.com/cgi-bin/ns/che.html?id=WVFUqHDn)

I just cannot believe this!

Do these people at 'Fashion Victim (http://www.fashionvictim.com/)' have no shame? They have not only dishonored the memory of a person who sencerly believed he was working for good (even if you disagree with his views and methods, surely you will give him that), but they have also stepped on the views of the late Alberto Korda, the photographer who took the photo.

Whatever happened to ethics? Shouldn't the views of the original artist (yes, Photographers are artists) be upheld?

I just cannot understand how this company can be so blinded by profit that it is willing to break artistic ethics this way.

I do not recognize any CopyRigths on El Che...

I have a T-Shirt made in Cuba...I do not recognize the Embargo either...

If ethics were so important to Mr. Korda, why did he sell the rights in the first place?

I didn't know you could own a copyright on a person...

I just cannot understand how this company can be so blinded by profit that it is willing to break artistic ethics this way.

at least they are providing jobs for the people of Honduras

Andy Warhol made some famous modifications on Che. Should his estate be sued dry?
And yes, while I'm a supporter of free trade, I do see that this is extremely ironic. A revolutionary's image having its t-shirts made in an alleged sweatshop. It'd be different if it were, say Adam Smith or Alan Greenspan's image on a t-shirt. Then again, who'd buy them :D?

I always thought putting his picture on shirts made in sweatshops was stupid. I never understood it at all.

It'd be different if it were, say Adam Smith or Alan Greenspan's image on a t-shirt. Then again, who'd buy them :D?

Hmm...i just got an idea...

I find it offensive that Che's image is marketed in such a crass way in the first place.

now ive seen everything

http://www.cafepress.com/sisyphus.6608820

now ive seen everything

http://www.cafepress.com/sisyphus.6608820

hahaha! that rules in so many ways.

TSR tried to copyright the term "Nazi" for use in the short-lived Indiana Jones game; it doesn't mean they actually had the exclusive right to it.

I think this is all a moot point anyway, because if Che saw the kind of ilk that buys his likeness, he'd probably shoot them on sight. ;)

Photography copyright is a little complex.

Any photograph is automatically copyrighted to the person who took the photograph, unless there is already an agreement (work for hire) that signs away the copyright of that image to another party. The copyright is on the image, not the person - and only that ONE image. I am a photographer - if someone uses an image I take without my express permission - no matter what the subject is - they're violating my copyright and I would be within my rights to pursue them for it legally. Personally, I don't care if someone wants to use one of my photos as a wallpaper on their computer, but if they start printing copies and selling them or if they start claiming it as their work, you better believe I'm going to be steamed up if I find out about it.

The Guevara is a famous image - if it is being used without rights to the photographer or agency that holds the copyright, more power to them in pursuing it. "Fashion Victim's" morality aside, that's the law. On the other hand...

That being said, photographers don't always have an uncontested right to the way a photograph is being used. If I were to take a photograph of a person (who's identity could be recognized in the photo) and tried to use it in an advertising campaign, for instance - they could pursue me if I didn't get a release allowing me to use their likeness. This is standard business proceedure for photographers - and it doesn't cover "photojournalism or editorial" use where the photograph falls under first amendment. That part of the law is vague, but allows for people who are photographed, or who's property is photographed, to protect their identity and image legally. As Che isn't exactly around to answer, his heirs might be able to do something about the use. If I'm reading this right, the artist sold off the rights to the photograph, but depending on the terms of the contract, he might be able to protest its usage (if he's still around).

If he decides to do that, though... more power to him.

And more power to the people. :-D

Oops... us photographer artists are capitalists too...

now ive seen everything

http://www.cafepress.com/sisyphus.6608820

that gives me an idea for some durruti boxers. only mine would have a 'quote' on them too.

"we carry a new world, here in our pants. that world is growing this minute."

now if only the number of people willing to pay for some underpants with a misquote of a moderately famous anarchist was larger...

any Bush gear? :D

any Bush gear? :D
There was actually a Bush action figure sold last Christmas. Well, as soon as Bush gets out of office, he'll probably open his own library with a gift store (they all do). He'll have every type of doll there, from Bush as Philip Augustus to Bush as Caesar Augustus. That's the thing I notice about Bush critics. They critisize him for establishing Pax Americana (a Latin phrase) and a crusader. They both have a figure in them named Augustus. Should we call Bush "George Augustus"? No, it doesn't have a ring to it :).

Photography copyright is a little complex.

Any photograph is automatically copyrighted to the person who took the photograph, unless there is already an agreement (work for hire) that signs away the copyright of that image to another party. The copyright is on the image, not the person - and only that ONE image. I am a photographer - if someone uses an image I take without my express permission - no matter what the subject is - they're violating my copyright and I would be within my rights to pursue them for it legally. Personally, I don't care if someone wants to use one of my photos as a wallpaper on their computer, but if they start printing copies and selling them or if they start claiming it as their work, you better believe I'm going to be steamed up if I find out about it.

The Guevara is a famous image - if it is being used without rights to the photographer or agency that holds the copyright, more power to them in pursuing it. "Fashion Victim's" morality aside, that's the law. On the other hand...

That being said, photographers don't always have an uncontested right to the way a photograph is being used. If I were to take a photograph of a person (who's identity could be recognized in the photo) and tried to use it in an advertising campaign, for instance - they could pursue me if I didn't get a release allowing me to use their likeness. This is standard business proceedure for photographers - and it doesn't cover "photojournalism or editorial" use where the photograph falls under first amendment. That part of the law is vague, but allows for people who are photographed, or who's property is photographed, to protect their identity and image legally. As Che isn't exactly around to answer, his heirs might be able to do something about the use. If I'm reading this right, the artist sold off the rights to the photograph, but depending on the terms of the contract, he might be able to protest its usage (if he's still around).

If he decides to do that, though... more power to him.

And more power to the people. :-D

Oops... us photographer artists are capitalists too...
Not only that though, but the famous stencil image of Che probably is distinctive and unique enough to qualify for copyright status.

I dunno, I don't think I'd buy a shirt or anything with Che on it... it kinda seems like communism-lite to me, the same kind of thing as when people get tattoos of chinese characters. It's naff, and pedestrian, and overdone.

Not only that though, but the famous stencil image of Che probably is distinctive and unique enough to qualify for copyright status.

I dunno, I don't think I'd buy a shirt or anything with Che on it... it kinda seems like communism-lite to me, the same kind of thing as when people get tattoos of chinese characters. It's naff, and pedestrian, and overdone.

Not to mention capitalist-pig..... ;)

I find it offensive that Che's image is marketed in such a crass way in the first place.

Ditto. It disgusts me.

i wear what i want, where i want.

i fucking love my che shirt, and i really dont care where its made or who is on it. I dont give a flying fuck about che or his movement. You think i care if im "dishonoring" his image? I could shit on his grave and care less. ;)

The capatlist marketing of a communist.
I love life, you try to rebel against the system and be for the little people and then you snuff it and your image is used for the shirts of middle-class white kids. Not only that, but its maade in sweatshops overseen by the Filthy Capatalist dogs you tried to rebel against.
I think that the same should be done to Lenin and co.

Take that Communism! I have you on my shirt and my thong!

What better capitalist tool then to turn Communist Icons into Capitalist money-makers.

I would LOVE to Buy a Stalin or Lenin T-shirt. Trotsky!

I think that the same should be done to Lenin and co.

You can buy Lenin shirts in a similar style to Che shirts actually.

You can buy Lenin shirts in a similar style to Che shirts actually.
Where? Where?
I must have this!
Boxers would be better, but assholes can't be choosers, so I'll go with anything.

Where? Where?
I must have this!
Boxers would be better, but assholes can't be choosers, so I'll go with anything.

yeah! where?

I've seen them at a local store. I'll look for somewhere online.

In the meantime, check out www.leninade.com

If ethics were so important to Mr. Korda, why did he sell the rights in the first place?


He didn't sale it, it was sold at the auction of his estate when he died.

http://www.cpa.org.au/sale/t-shirts.html

I've seen them at a local store. I'll look for somewhere online.

In the meantime, check out www.leninade.com
I thought that shirts were good, but this just keeps getting better and better.
"Leninade is a soda pop that truly captures the spirit of the Russian Revolution! It's Red, it's Bubbly, and it goes well with Vodka!"
-- Former Communist Party Official; now a used car salesman in Tampa.
"Improve your Marx!"

Remember kids, in the end we are all capatilist rat bastards, and those who try to deny it shall be the ones being sold on T-shirts.

This is kind of a US-Cuba problem too. Fasion Victim got the rights to the photo when they were breaking up Korda's US estate after his death, by virtue of the fact the real holder of the Copyright is his daughter Diana Díaz López a member of the Cuban government. Also Cuba hasn't signed the Berne Convention which protects international copyrights.

Lawyers have won the her control of the copyright in the UK (http://www.sundayherald.com/25920) and France (http://www.ain.cu/english/jul11iggenglish03.htm) but given US-Cuban relation...

Che Guevara's daughter is also apparently trying to gain control of her father's image (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/06/27/1056683905727.html?oneclick=true).

I thought that shirts were good, but this just keeps getting better and better.
"Leninade is a soda pop that truly captures the spirit of the Russian Revolution! It's Red, it's Bubbly, and it goes well with Vodka!"
-- Former Communist Party Official; now a used car salesman in Tampa.
"Improve your Marx!"

Remember kids, in the end we are all capatilist rat bastards, and those who try to deny it shall be the ones being sold on T-shirts.

Hehehe. I'm tempted to get a case shipped over, but i'm not sure if you can import that.

Why all the fuss ove Castros murdering bitch anyway? Geez you guys talk as if he were a hero! Wake up! Calling yourselves socialists doesnt make you "cool".

You can buy Lenin shirts in a similar style to Che shirts actually.
I saw a Saddam T-Shirt a la Che style the other day.

The real disgrace of Ernando isn't that his image is being sold across the capitalist world that he fought against. It's how the image has become pop-culture, trivializing all that he stood for. Only a few of the people who know that image know anything about the man it pictures.

The people who try to discredit him with amusing claims about him being a murderous villain don't even bother me. There are numerous people who I believe that about, and with more actually evidence. Especially considering that we assisted in torturing Che to death. I still find it amazing that the Cuban's managed to find his corpse.

The trouble with revolutionaries, is that their reputation never stays put. Ernando 'Che' Guevara de la Serna would not, I expect, be bothered by anything bourgeoisie imperialists could do to his memory, so long as the Cubans remember him as they he was. The same can be said of Vladimir Illyich Lenin and Leon Trotsky, Fidel Castro and the 26 July Movement, and the countless other revolutionary leaders whose names are forgotten, as they do not appear on any of the 'classics' of Marxism.

Why all the fuss ove Castros murdering bitch anyway? Geez you guys talk as if he were a hero! Wake up! Calling yourselves socialists doesnt make you "cool".
I think its the perfect revenge, even better than living well!
Capatlize off of socialism!
Make money with Lenin's name!
Put pictures of Castro on your coffee mug!
50% discount at selected retailers!