NationStates Jolt Archive

who are the real terorist? who have been occupy, and lost their home? or the invaders, who come from various countrys in Europe, America etc.Who? and second question: if you have money and power can you kill protesters, childs, womens and every one that unhappy with your policy?
i know that i will be accused, that i am anti-Semite (arabs are Semits too), maybe fascist or something. That's bullshit, i have some friends jews and they all are very nice people. i am just against Israel goverment and it policy...

READ THIS BEFORE YOU VOTE AND/OR POST REPLY. ----->
http://www.koshertaxscam.com/atroc/

DANGER: SEVENTY-SEVEN GRAPHIC PICTURES OF BRUTAL VIOLENCE, DEATH AND INJURY. NOT FOR VIEWING BY CHILDREN OR PERSONS WITH WEAK HEARTS!

Just to toss out a site with an opposite viewpoint: http://www.FactsAndLogic.org

the israeli's need to just give back all the palestinian land they took from that stupid war that caused this whole mess that evidently they still cant resolve.
And it probably wouldv happend if the damn far right wing party didnt have so much power.

1) :rolleyes:

2) I'm surprised the site linked does not infringe some kind of link-to rule here ... but * shrug * I suppose ....

3) Oh, and its pretty darn'd plain despite claims presented to the other-wise, the site is over-all anti-jew, it its intent. And I question your motives in posting the link here, no-matter what you say.

" Doctor, we have another severe case of, Generalities ! " ;)

2) I'm surprised the site linked does not infringe some kind of link-to rule here ... but * shrug * I suppose ....

He posted a pretty succinct disclaimer.

i know how live in occupation, my country was brutaly annexed, by soviets for 50 years. i know the cost of freedom. lithuanians was resistance with guns after ww2 but that had no good result, in 1988 we resistance peacefully, but russians tanks killed 14 protesters and about 2000 was injured only in Lithuania, now we are free...
so i think israel goverment use same tactic... when arabs will use peaceful protest they will gain world favour and they will win thair freedom...

Do you mind Hack, I'm trying to push an ulterior motive here, :p

They're both idiots - Hamas and Hezbollah go preaching their jihad and killing innocent civillians while Israel's retaliations go way to far and have this idiotic wall (Oops, I mean "security fence") between the two countries. While it may be preventing attacks it's only creating mistrust between the two sides.

The only way we'll ever end the conflict is to return Mahmoud Abbas to Palestinian PM and get Ehmud Barak back as the Israeli PM - while I'm happy Sharon is pulling out of the Palestinian territories, I still think up to that decision he has been a maniacal right-wing nutjob


And I'd like to take the opportunity to point out that not all Jews are pro-Israeli!!! I have two Jewish friends at my High School who refuse to support Ariel Sharon while he is in power (actually for when Abbas was Palestinian PM they supported him because they, like me, saw him as a moderate).

who are the real terorist? who have been occupy, and lost their home? or the invaders, who come from various countrys in Europe, America etc.Who?

1. Europe(Of course, after the holocaust), America, and various countries all over, don't see why you have to mention the western ones- as if Jews didn't come to Israel from Africa and the Arabic countries.

2. Yes, occupied and lost their homes, so that gives them every right, I suppose, to kill all the Israelis they can manage to kill. I'm not talking about soldiers here, I'm talking about people sitting in a restaurant- hell that, in their own homes- and getting bombed or shot or stabbed by palestinians.
At least Israel tries to take off the terrorist ones of the palestinians, and not the kids.

who are the real terorist? who have been occupy, and lost their home? or the invaders, who come from various countrys in Europe, America etc.Who? and second question: if you have money and power can you kill protesters, childs, womens and every one that unhappy with your policy?
i know that i will be accused, that i am anti-Semite (arabs are Semits too), maybe fascist or something. That's bullshit, i have some friends jews and they all are very nice people. i am just against Israel goverment and it policy...

READ THIS BEFORE YOU VOTE AND/OR POST REPLY. ----->
http://www.koshertaxscam.com/atroc/

Just a tip: if you don't want to be accused of anti-semitism, you probably shouldn't use a site with the URL "koshertaxscam" as a resource.

The URL refers to a rather nasty anti-Semitic myth which has been thoroughly debunked: http://www.snopes.com/racial/business/kosher.htm

As far as the pictures- truly horrific. However, to quote the Merchant of Venice:

"I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes? hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer, as a Christian is? If you prick us, do we not bleed? if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?"

Israelis are people, just like everyone else. Pictures of Israeli children lying dead and mutilated are no less disgusting or terrible than those of Palestinians, or any other group.

The other issue is how you define "terrorist". As far as I'm concerned, both sides are engaging in activities they shouldn't, and need to empower their moderates and work towards a long-term peace settlement.

That said, there are also violent extremists on both sides, and they need to be controlled and stopped.

Well, the Jews had to go through the Holocaust in order to get the land of Israel. Also, they've been the subject of suffering for millenia (Nazis weren't the only people to be prejudiced against Jews - just look at the Egyptians and the Babylonians). Do you think that after all they've been through, that they're just going to hand over what they believe to be rightfully theirs?

The Palestinians are in the same situation, though. I mean, they're looked down upon by other Arabs (so much so that the Israelis are in a position to hire Bedouin to do their dirty work for them) and they have actually been living on the disputed lands for ages.

The one fact that we have to realise is that innocents on both sides are being gunned down - children, civilians and all. But on one side we have fanatical Islamic preachers who teach their people to be martyrs, and on the other side we have right-wing Jewish power-seekers. Between the two of them, thousands of people are killed. That's the first thing both sides have to see before anything can be resolved.

we can look further

http://www.palestinemonitor.org/gallery/children2.htm

we can look further

http://www.palestinemonitor.org/gallery/children2.htm

That thing is called "Palestine monitor", for some reason I guess it won't show any pictures of dead Israeli kids. What? you think there aren't any???

I can look for Shalhevet Pass, if you'd like to. An Israeli baby who got shot right between the eyes while her mother was holding her by a palestinian gunman.
Is that what you want? To just get in an arguement of blood-pics? It can seriously go on forever.

That thing is called "Palestine monitor", for some reason I guess it won't show any pictures of dead Israeli kids. What? you think there aren't any???

I can look for Shalhevet Pass, if you'd like to. An Israeli baby who got shot right between the eyes while her mother was holding her by a palestinian gunman.
Is that what you want? To just get in an arguement of blood-pics? It can seriously go on forever.

childs are dying, there is no import , are they israelian, palestinian... they are childs! both sides using bad tactics...

btw if someone would kill me family, demolish my house or smt, if suicide bomber would blow up my family member... i would take to me arms AK, i would trow stone, molotov coctail...

conclusion EVIL BORN MORE EVIL, SOMEBODY HAVE TO DO FIRST STEP

Palastine was never a country, and though pictures of dead children are horrific....The truth is many arab nations teach hatred and put there children on the front lines.

Palastine was never a country

IS THAT REASON TO KILL THEM?

the point is they would not die if not put in that position by there parents! what kind of parents would do that?

Israel is the greatest terrorist state in the world.

Israel is the greatest terrorist state in the world.
really objective and really gives a great insight into your (obviously lacking) intelligence.
would you like to cite a source for that???

really objective and really gives a great insight into your (obviously lacking) intelligence.
would you like to cite a source for that???

No, he wouldn't, because first he'd have to understand what the words "cite" and "source" mean. Those are obviously far beyond him.

Israel is the greatest terrorist state in the world.


no i dont think so... there are bigger terrorist countrys... USA, Russian Federation, Marocco, Libya, North Korea and tons other...

USA, first we feed the world....then we kill them, right! Who is perfect anyway?

Buzz

Terrorism: To use any means possible to gain political or religious power, to include -intentionally killing innocent civilians-

Irealies are the real terrorist, and they are the most terrorist nation in the world, oh well probably the US would come first

Irealies are the real terrorist, and they are the most terrorist nation in the world, oh well probably the US would come first

With your spelling, grammar and puctuation, it's a wonder that a coherent thought escapes your addled brain.....Oh. Pardon me. It didn't.

Israel is the greatest terrorist state in the world.
No. It's the US.

With your spelling, grammar and puctuation, it's a wonder that a coherent thought escapes your addled brain.....Oh. Pardon me. It didn't.

Did You ever stop and think about where all these people come from and what language they normally speak?
Before you laugh at anybody who is not able to use correct english, you should be able to write in their language first.
You just assume every human in this world should be able to write english properly. :headbang:

BTW: Since 9/11 you have extreme prejudices against arabics, and you can't see what is really going on, I feel sorry for any American or anybody with similar thoughts.

the israeli's need to just give back all the palestinian land they took from that stupid war that caused this whole mess that evidently they still cant resolve.
And it probably wouldv happend if the damn far right wing party didnt have so much power.


both groups want to take over the whole area. they both have issues.

both groups want to take over the whole area. they both have issues.

If they both want all the godd@mn land why don't they just f*cking share it?!?! That way they can both be happy . . . but with idiots like Arafat and Sharon in power, it'll be some time before anything gets done

With your spelling, grammar and puctuation, it's a wonder that a coherent thought escapes your addled brain.....Oh. Pardon me. It didn't.

Before criticising others, check your own spelling, grammar and punctuation mate.

So many points to make, so little time to make them!

1. After WW2 (that's the one thet the yanks didn't join in until one of their steamers got accidently attacked by the Germans). The Allied nations gave an area of land to the Jewish refugees. I would like to point out this was not their land to give!! I'm English and we didn't have the right to do this.

2. The Palistinians are a little put out at having their country carved up and given away. Let's face it why didn't the yanks (who have such a large amount of space) give up some of their land (that the Collonials stole from the Native Americans). A little simplistic I admit but theirs got to be a discussion point in their somewhere.

3. The Palistinians, armed with mainly sticks and stones fight to regain their land back. Later helped by the Syrians, Egyptians etc.

4. The newly founded Israel defend themselves with a disproportionate response, backed by American arms. (Gee that's getting dangerously close to crossing the line on taking sides. I'm sure there's an international law about that!)

5. 3 and 4 keep going on, each side balming the other.

6. The Americans (who are possibly the most ignorant nation in the world may I add) won't do any more then suck up to Israel because of the President (whoever is in at the time) not wanting to lose the Jewish vote. To add to this they put pressure on the rest of the international community NOT to do anything to support the Palestinians (who are both Muslim and Christian) because of the aforesaid reason.

7. I think it's fairly obvious to the neutral and informed outside world that Israeli's have a very short memory, because what is happening in Irael is not unlike what happened in 1930's Germany.

On a personal level I would also like to point out that I am a white English man who has no political or religious leaning either way in this matter.

So many points to make, so little time to make them!

1. After WW2 (that's the one thet the yanks didn't join in until one of their steamers got accidently attacked by the Germans). The Allied nations gave an area of land to the Jewish refugees. I would like to point out this was not their land to give!! I'm English and we didn't have the right to do this.

2. The Palistinians are a little put out at having their country carved up and given away. Let's face it why didn't the yanks (who have such a large amount of space) give up some of their land (that the Collonials stole from the Native Americans). A little simplistic I admit but theirs got to be a discussion point in their somewhere.

3. The Palistinians, armed with mainly sticks and stones fight to regain their land back. Later helped by the Syrians, Egyptians etc.

4. The newly founded Israel defend themselves with a disproportionate response, backed by American arms. (Gee that's getting dangerously close to crossing the line on taking sides. I'm sure there's an international law about that!)

5. 3 and 4 keep going on, each side balming the other.

6. The Americans (who are possibly the most ignorant nation in the world may I add) won't do any more then suck up to Israel because of the President (whoever is in at the time) not wanting to lose the Jewish vote. To add to this they put pressure on the rest of the international community NOT to do anything to support the Palestinians (who are both Muslim and Christian) because of the aforesaid reason.

7. I think it's fairly obvious to the neutral and informed outside world that Israeli's have a very short memory, because what is happening in Israel is not unlike what happened in 1930's Germany.

On a personal level I would also like to point out that I am a white English man who has no political or religious leaning either way in this matter.

Well well, so much to answer.

1. Don't take all credit to yourself, my dear Englishman. Blame the UN- November 29th 1947, the decision that it'd be best to establish a Jewish state on the land of Palestina. After all, back then there wasn't any state there, so why not let them, they just had a holocaust and all, poor them, let them have a state, thought the nice people in the UN.

2. Yup, they got screwed alright. In fact the palestinians find a nice way to get themselves screwed in almost all situations, with or without Israeli help.

3. Mainly sticks and stones and guns to shoot at buses- this is Israel's Independence war we're talking about, right? So they don't bomb anything yet. By the way, you forgot Lebanon, Iraq, and Jordan, but I guess they go on the "etc." part. Gee, don't you think that's a bit too harsh on a newly established state?

4. disproportional response? Sure, 6 nations are attacking a newly found state, so defending itself oughtta be disproportional. Yes, the Americans started taking sides back then, and you know, I doubt the fact there's an international law about "taking sides". Usually they're called "Allies".

5. On and on and on and on.

6. "To add to this they put pressure on the rest of the international community NOT to do anything to support the Palestinians". I found the American pressure not very helping, looking at the world today. It's hard to find a single soul that doesn't support the Palestinians ,who are, by the way, muslim just as much as the Israelis are Jewish. The Christians you're talking about are a minority.

7. Not yet, my dear, not yet. Who knows? Maybe if you'll wait long enough the Israelis would finally lose it.

On a personal level I would like to point out it really doesn't matter where you're from, black or white, man or woman- you do sound like having SOME political leaning in this matter.

Your facts are quite off. The situation (especially the founding of Israel) is FAR more complicated. You shouldn't kid yourself into thinking that Britain did much to help create it-- some pre-state Jews comitted terrorist attacks against British forces in the area, eventually driving them out.

So many points to make, so little time to make them!

1. After WW2 (that's the one thet the yanks didn't join in until one of their steamers got accidently attacked by the Germans). The Allied nations gave an area of land to the Jewish refugees. I would like to point out this was not their land to give!! I'm English and we didn't have the right to do this.

Events leading up to this were in motion for fifty years before WWII. There had been Jews streaming into Palestine in small trickles for quite a long time. That became a wave after WWII, though the British sure made an effort to stop it.

2. The Palistinians are a little put out at having their country carved up and given away. Let's face it why didn't the yanks (who have such a large amount of space) give up some of their land (that the Collonials stole from the Native Americans). A little simplistic I admit but theirs got to be a discussion point in their somewhere.

No, it's just simplistic.

3. The Palistinians, armed with mainly sticks and stones fight to regain their land back. Later helped by the Syrians, Egyptians etc.

4. The newly founded Israel defend themselves with a disproportionate response, backed by American arms. (Gee that's getting dangerously close to crossing the line on taking sides. I'm sure there's an international law about that!)

Yes, the Israelis had the backing of a major world power...the mighty imperial power of Czechoslovakia. :-\ They were the main arms suppliers in the Israeli Independence War. Which, it should be added, was fought with Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Lebanon sending armies in with the declared intention of exterminating the Jews primarily centered around Tel Aviv.

Somehow, the Jews not only win but gain more than was partitioned to them by the UN. Military schools around the country don't teach about the Israeli Independence War because tactically the Jews should have lost and few can really explain how they won.

6. The Americans (who are possibly the most ignorant nation in the world may I add) won't do any more then suck up to Israel because of the President (whoever is in at the time) not wanting to lose the Jewish vote. To add to this they put pressure on the rest of the international community NOT to do anything to support the Palestinians (who are both Muslim and Christian) because of the aforesaid reason.

What a laughable idea. It's so nice for people to blame things on the miniscule Jewish vote in the US and claim the Palestinians have had no international support. Despite the fact that the majority of time and resolutions in the GA is spend devoted to the Palestinians and that the Palestinians get their own UN refugee organization, while all other displaced persons across the world share one.

7. I think it's fairly obvious to the neutral and informed outside world that Israeli's have a very short memory, because what is happening in Irael is not unlike what happened in 1930's Germany.

No, what's happening in parts of Europe is like what's happening in 1930s Germany. Increasingly less vague assertions about "Jewish control" of media and votes, polls showing Europeans believe somehow Israel is a threat to them and the default belief the Isrealis are always wrong.

On a personal level I would also like to point out that I am a white English man who has no political or religious leaning either way in this matter.

Of course you have a political leaning on this matter. You just stated it.

First of all, I apologize for my english, its not my mother language.
I am an Israeli military officer in a unit called the Golani Brigade, I currently serve as a Company commander in the westbank (disputed territories)
sometimes it truly amazes me the accusations and lies I see in every form of media(Mostly in Europe)
I saw respected news stations spread lies and twist facts, facts that I made on the field, things Ive seen with my own eyes!
For example, a teenager who ambushed one of our convoys with an ak47 shot 2 soldiers before getting killed himself, was reported as "in a raid in the westbank, israeli soldiers kill a teenager"
The "wall" is not a wall, its a fence, hundreds of miles of fence! less then 8 miles are actually a wall because thats where Israeli villages are less then a mile from palestinian villages and are in danger of snipers and gunners,
Therefor a solid structure is required! (You can easily shoot through barbed wires).
The mistrust grows through palestinians schools and media, if people here will be intrested i'd be delighted to send u palestinian schools books, videos and pictures from schools where 8 years old children train with real guns(!!!)
Its illegal for us to target civilians, and any soldier who does hurt civilians in anyway will stand to court martial (atleast in my unit).
We do our best to help civilians, and my company alone lost 5 men trying to take civilians out of the line of fire!
Just for proportion, the USA killed more civilians in 3 weeks of war in afganistan, then the Israeli army killed since 1967.
True, Civilians get killed.. But try to think of you in the following situations :
- You lead a taskforce after a live suicide bomber, suddendly your taskforce comes under fire from a house, you are pinned down.. only way is to return fire! if u do, u might kill civilians in the house.. but if u dont, u may die with your group. what will you do?
- You are in command of a roadblock, an ambulance rushes quick.. you see a dying child inside.. a search through the ambulance might cost that child is life, but then again.. it might be a trick as we have identified over 67 ambulances smuggling weapons and bombs, letting that ambulance in might cost dozens of israelis their lives..
what will you do?

We fight because we defend our people, thats the only reason.. I swear here and now, that the moment the Palestinians will stop their vile terrorist ways i'll be the first Israeli military officer to put down my gun and help the Palestinians build a country they never had.
Thank you

זקומיה... אתה מגניב.

זקומיה... אתה מגניב.

אתה צוחק עלי?
no hebrew plz

o you can write not only in english... i too...

?iulpk byb? ?yd? kiaule, tave reik ki?ti i duj? kamer?!

SO PLEASE WRITE IN ENGLISH!

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The palestinian terrorists _intentionally_ target civillians. The Israeli military do their best to target terrorists and enemy combatants. The press in many nations persist in taking the side of the palestinians and portraying them as freedom fighters despite their barbaric acts of murdering women and children and blowing up busloads of working people and students. Yes, Israel should give up it's settlements, but this doesn't _ever_ justify palestinian murderers.

I think I'll weigh in on this one.

I, for the most part have stopped discussing this issue, because I found almost everyone I speak to is blindly one sided. Most of my left-wing friends are blindly pro palestine, and many of my jewish friends are blindly pro-Israel. This is tough for me since I'm a left wing Jew. I don't support the military tactics of the Israeli government and for this I have been called a self hating Jew on many occasions. Yet I don't support the palestinian terrorists either.

Both sides are committing atrocities, and it cannot be blamed on current leaders because this has been going on since Israel was created in 1948.
The violence in the middle East is a cycle and will not end until other means are attempted.

As for American support of Israel, I am sick of it being connected to "trying to keep the Jewish vote".
The U.S. is supporting Israel in an overzealous war agianst terrorism. Sound familiar? And in Israel the threat of attack is constant and very real.

Both are stupid with their actions.

The Palestinians have less power in resolving the issue though I think personally.

As the Israelis have more money and more power and have been taking over more and more Palestinian land, I think that they could show some signs of good faith and give some land back as well as not build that wall in Palestinian terrirtory. if they want to keep Palestinians out of Israel, then keep them out of israel as best they can. Also I think Israel could try to help them rebuild much of the infrastructure and economy they destroyed or at least call on the rest of the world to help them do so. There should also be an international peace-keeping force in Palestine and they should see if they could get a good leader placed in power in Palestine and that new leader should be watched over to make sure they wok with the rest fo the world in maintaining peace and building up a sustainable economy. Maybe offer breaks to corporations who build factories in Palestine to give them some work as long as they get a livable wage.

Is it just me or is Israel into ethnic cleansing?

The US are also idiots for backing everything Israel does and should stay out of it altogether and quit funding them and selling them weapons if they are going to keep terrorizing Palestine.

Both are stupid with their actions.

The Palestinians have less power in resolving the issue though I think personally.

As the Israelis have more money and more power and have been taking over more and more Palestinian land, I think that they could show some signs of good faith and give some land back as well as not build that wall in Palestinian terrirtory. if they want to keep Palestinians out of Israel, then keep them out of israel as best they can. Also I think Israel could try to help them rebuild much of the infrastructure and economy they destroyed or at least call on the rest of the world to help them do so. There should also be an international peace-keeping force in Palestine and they should see if they could get a good leader placed in power in Palestine and that new leader should be watched over to make sure they wok with the rest fo the world in maintaining peace and building up a sustainable economy. Maybe offer breaks to corporations who build factories in Palestine to give them some work as long as they get a livable wage.

Is it just me or is Israel into ethnic cleansing?

The US are also idiots for backing everything Israel does and should stay out of it altogether and quit funding them and selling them weapons if they are going to keep terrorizing Palestine.
The US will keep funding Israel because they are democratic (unlike the rest of the middle east), and because they are our only real allies in the region. As for terrorizing palestine, Israeli troops don't stop cars full of women and children and shoot them. They don't bomb busloads of people in the palestinian territories. If Israel wanted to eliminate the palestinians it could. Nobody would intervene millitarily. Having said this, I must say that Israel could give up the settlements and remove the justification for palestinian terrorism in Europe's eyes, but they seem too lack the political will.

Before criticising others, check your own spelling, grammar and punctuation mate.

I did. It's just fine, mate.

(Where did all these morons come from?)

So many points to make, so little time to make them!

1. After WW2 (that's the one thet the yanks didn't join in until one of their steamers got accidently attacked by the Germans). The Allied nations gave an area of land to the Jewish refugees. I would like to point out this was not their land to give!! I'm English and we didn't have the right to do this.

Check your facts, Germany declared war on the US. Not the other way around! FYI: It was called the Balfour Declaration, you're English and didn't know this??

2. The Palistinians are a little put out at having their country carved up and given away. Let's face it why didn't the yanks (who have such a large amount of space) give up some of their land (that the Collonials stole from the Native Americans). A little simplistic I admit but theirs got to be a discussion point in their somewhere.

Why didn't the English, who have fought numerous civil wars give up some land? Oh, that right. You had already pissed off the Irish!

3. The Palistinians, armed with mainly sticks and stones fight to regain their land back. Later helped by the Syrians, Egyptians etc.

Syrians, Egyptians, Transjordanians, Iraqis, Lebanese.....
Armed with British, French, and Russian supplied weapons!

4. The newly founded Israel defend themselves with a disproportionate response, backed by American arms. (Gee that's getting dangerously close to crossing the line on taking sides. I'm sure there's an international law about that!)

You have proof that the US sold arms to Israel prior to 1950??

From Chaim Herzog's book, "The Arab-Israeli Wars"; p.9,
Backing these Arab forceswas the military potential of the Arab world, which numbered several hundred aircraft in the air forces of Egypt, Syria, and Iraq, plus British and French artillery and armour. In addition, they had ready access to arms, ammunition and spares, in contrast to the embargo that affected the Jewish forces.

You were saying something about "taking sides"??
British and French artillery and armour??

5. 3 and 4 keep going on, each side balming the other.

balming here and balming there! LOL

6. The Americans (who are possibly the most ignorant nation in the world may I add) won't do any more then suck up to Israel because of the President (whoever is in at the time) not wanting to lose the Jewish vote. To add to this they put pressure on the rest of the international community NOT to do anything to support the Palestinians (who are both Muslim and Christian) because of the aforesaid reason.

More conjecture, NO proof!

7. I think it's fairly obvious to the neutral and informed outside world that Israeli's have a very short memory, because what is happening in Irael is not unlike what happened in 1930's Germany.

Germany wasn't attacked by every bordering country! Poor comparision.

On a personal level I would also like to point out that I am a white English man who has no political or religious leaning either way in this matter.

Considering you're "white English", just how many times did the IRA launch a terrorist attack on NON-British areas?

Why was Pan Am 103 "blown up"??

This was probably "before your time":1985
Background: Four heavily armed Palestinian terrorists in October hijack the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro, carrying more than 400 passengers and crew, off Egypt. The hijackers demand that Israel free 50 Palestinian prisoners. The terrorists kill a disabled American tourist, 69-year-old Leon Klinghoffer, and throw his body overboard with his wheelchair. After a two-day drama, the hijackers surrender in exchange for a pledge of safe passage.

How about this:
Munich Massacre 1972
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/munich.html

When was the last time ANY arab olympic athletes were murdered at the Olympics?

I think I'll weigh in on this one.

I, for the most part have stopped discussing this issue, because I found almost everyone I speak to is blindly one sided. Most of my left-wing friends are blindly pro palestine, and many of my jewish friends are blindly pro-Israel. This is tough for me since I'm a left wing Jew. I don't support the military tactics of the Israeli government and for this I have been called a self hating Jew on many occasions. Yet I don't support the palestinian terrorists either.

Both sides are committing atrocities, and it cannot be blamed on current leaders because this has been going on since Israel was created in 1948.
The violence in the middle East is a cycle and will not end until other means are attempted.

As for American support of Israel, I am sick of it being connected to "trying to keep the Jewish vote".
The U.S. is supporting Israel in an overzealous war agianst terrorism. Sound familiar? And in Israel the threat of attack is constant and very real.

I'm a left-leaning Jew, too, although I've come to be more pragmatic as I've gotten older.

As far as "this has been going on since Israel was created in 1948"- not exactly. The tensions and hostility began early in the 20th century as more Jews began immigrating to Palestine, and the organized violence seems to have started around 1929. Arab attacks of course led to Jewish reprisals, and soon both sides started having their own militias and attacking each other on a constant basis (although it should be noted that the official policy of the Yishuv and its Hanagah militia was that of "havagala", or self-restraint; not all the Jewish militias believed in or supported this).

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/haganah.html

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/irgun.html

As far as the Jewish vote thing you mentioned- these two Ha'aretz articles seem to be quite relevant.

Enjoy. :)

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/468485.html

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/468508.html

Maybe if the Palenstinians would stop blowing themselves up on buses in Israel, killing innocent civilians and tourists, maybe the Israelis may not feel the need to put their military in the Gaza Strip. Israel is surrounded by it's enemies and across the ocean from its allies and people feel so sorry for Palestine? I will admitt that civilians shouldn't die because of this but God, stop acting so surprised that Israel is defending itself. It's kind of like the Arab World being surprised that the US has invaded several of their countries after 9/11. Countries will defend themselves if they feel threatened or are attacked, although Iraq was bs from day 1. People have been trying to destroy Jews through all of history from slaves in Egypt to the Holocaust to modern Middle East. THEY HAVE ALL FAILED! Palestine will fail too.

Both.

The main reason why palastinians use terrorist tactics is because they dont have the modern weapons to repel their invaders. Were they equiped with the same high tech american eqipment the israelis have then they wouldnt strap bombs to themselves and run into israeli buses or other civilian targets. I dont understand how the UN just allowed the creation of a jewish state(when last i heard the UN never allowed the creation of a christian state or a muslim state) it was an unfair decision based mainly on biblical refrences. If there are any victims in this conflict its the innocent palastinians who were wrongly driven out of their own homes in 1947 which were then bulldozed and israeli settlements were built on top of them. And the israelis have no right using the halocaust as an excuse to justify their occupation of palastine(there are many victims of genocide in africa, former USSR, and south america and you dont hear the UN giving those victims their own state as a result so why the hell should the jewish people get theirs, what makes them so special?) What the israelis should do is GET THE HELL OUT of palastine and peacefully resettle in areas like europe or america which would take them with no problem and let the palastinians rebuild their nation.

Hmm... one side uses suicide bombers to blow up restaurants...

The other side rigs telephone booths to explode then shrug it off when the wrong person is killed in the explosion.

One side blows up buses and malls...

The other side rocket blasts an old deaf blind man in a wheelchair from a helicopter while he is at his morning prayer... because he allegedly(no trial) used to be a terrorist.

Hmm...I'll say both.

The Israelis and Palestinians deserve eachother.

If there are any victims in this conflict its the innocent palastinians who were wrongly driven out of their own homes in 1947 which were then bulldozed and israeli settlements were built on top of them.
Let's remember that many palestinians left their land voluntarily because their own religious leaders told them to, essentially, get out of the way so we can wipe out the jews in one fell swoop.

The Israeli government is in the wrong. Anyone who thinks differently does not have the facts.

ISRAELIS vs ARABS.WHO ARE THE REAL TERRORISTS?

THE WELSH

THE WELSH

PLAID CYMRU FOREVER!!!
DEATH TO THE BLOODY BRITISH IMPERIALIST ARMIES!!!



Actually Plaid Cymru is an entirely peaceful organization ... Wales will NEVER be free!!!

PLAID CYMRU FOREVER!!!
DEATH TO THE BLOODY BRITISH IMPERIALIST ARMIES!!!



Actually Plaid Cymru is an entirely peaceful organization ... Wales will NEVER be free!!!


Wales is part of Britain - Gonzo!

Wales is part of Britain - Gonzo!

Not by choice - Boffo!

Does anyone take into account my first line?

... so little time! Yes I was very simplistic in my explaination as I had limited time to write.

What have the IRA got to do with Israel. Of course it would come from a Yank, a so-called British friend that helped fund the IRA for many years!

As for the Israeli military officer - whilst I wholeheartedly support your stance of helping the Palestinians once peace returns. I am a bit concerned over some of the rhetoric. By the way if you could explain how a British camera reporter walking through a "no-mans land" area with his hands in the air shouting "british press - don't shoot" got shot by Israeli patrol with no warning, on film may I add, then I'll take into account the whole checkpoint thing!

Someone dropped in about the overzealous anti terrorism thing. Iraq should never have been invaded - this WAS against international law. It was aimed solely at removing the head of state and replacing with an American approved regime. There were no WMD as the German chap stated (was it Dr. Hans Blick). He needed more time to prove it and wasn't given it. It was solely GW trying to finish his where his dad left off.

Where does the other yank get off saying that it's allies should be a Democracy? What - you think a country should be led by a bunch of guys who get bankrolled by lobby groups to have their point heard? The Arabic (another generalisation and simplification so don't start on that one!) works for them. Why does the fact you vote make you better off? You Americans voted for a presidant last time around and didn't get him because the loser's cousin (I think) was the Govenor of the deciding state. America and Democracy - what a falicy!!

The main reason why palastinians use terrorist tactics is because they dont have the modern weapons to repel their invaders. Were they equiped with the same high tech american eqipment the israelis have then they wouldnt strap bombs to themselves and run into israeli buses or other civilian targets. I dont understand how the UN just allowed the creation of a jewish state(when last i heard the UN never allowed the creation of a christian state or a muslim state) it was an unfair decision based mainly on biblical refrences. If there are any victims in this conflict its the innocent palastinians who were wrongly driven out of their own homes in 1947 which were then bulldozed and israeli settlements were built on top of them. And the israelis have no right using the halocaust as an excuse to justify their occupation of palastine(there are many victims of genocide in africa, former USSR, and south america and you dont hear the UN giving those victims their own state as a result so why the hell should the jewish people get theirs, what makes them so special?) What the israelis should do is GET THE HELL OUT of palastine and peacefully resettle in areas like europe or america which would take them with no problem and let the palastinians rebuild their nation.


I whole hearthly agree with you... and with pettitdom

The main reason why palastinians use terrorist tactics is because they dont have the modern weapons to repel their invaders. Were they equiped with the same high tech american eqipment the israelis have then they wouldnt strap bombs to themselves and run into israeli buses or other civilian targets.

...except Hizbollah, armed by Iran and the PA, which was initially armed by the Israelis to help create a Palestinian Police Force.

You are justifying terrorism and violence where there is none. It's blatently wrong and dangerous to assert that a group should sink to new lows of violence simply because it doesn't want to try the proven approach of peaceful resistance.

I dont understand how the UN just allowed the creation of a jewish state(when last i heard the UN never allowed the creation of a christian state or a muslim state) it was an unfair decision based mainly on biblical refrences.

Are you 12 or just very ignorant? Have you read the resolution? Have you read the history of it? There were no biblical references involved in the 1947 resolution. The UN recognized that parts of Mandatory Palestine had Jewish majorities that had developed an effective system of self-government and the region was being threatened with violence.

It may seem rather surprising to you in your suburb somewhere, but the rest of the world likes to divide itself by religion, tribe, etc. Most of the world does this and it's naive and racist of us to take our Western pleuralistic view and force it on the rest of the world.

Jews aren't allowed to be citizens of Jordan, Saudi Arabia and a host of other countries in the region. Yet half of Israel's population originated in the Middle East in the last half century, kicked out by other surrounding nations. This is at heart a tribal conflict.

Yet Israel is the one country among them that allows one million Muslims to be full citizens...

If there are any victims in this conflict its the innocent palastinians who were wrongly driven out of their own homes in 1947 which were then bulldozed and israeli settlements were built on top of them. And the israelis have no right using the halocaust as an excuse to justify their occupation of palastine(there are many victims of genocide in africa, former USSR, and south america and you dont hear the UN giving those victims their own state as a result so why the hell should the jewish people get theirs, what makes them so special?) What the israelis should do is GET THE HELL OUT of palastine and peacefully resettle in areas like europe or america which would take them with no problem and let the palastinians rebuild their nation.

Wow, you really are 12. This isn't worth discussing, you don't know any history. It's so sad that people aren't learning history.

Note that there have been dozens of resolutions against Israel in the GA, but none against the genocidal, racist Sudanese government, which is killing anyone in the region who isn't Arab.

Does anyone take into account my first line?

... so little time! Yes I was very simplistic in my explaination as I had limited time to write.

What have the IRA got to do with Israel.

I'll simplify it for you: Where did the IRA target their strikes, and against whom?

Where does Israel target their strikes and against whom?

Where do the Palestinians target their strikes and against whom?

What does hijacking airliners have to do with Palestine?(too many to name!)
What does detonating bombs in airliners(Lockerbie) have to do with Palestine?
What does killing a tourist on an Italian cruise ship(Achille Lauro) have to do with Palestine?


Of course it would come from a Yank, a so-called British friend that helped fund the IRA for many years!

Nice attempt to twist the facts, yet again! Maybe you should check your own country to find out how many of your own companies funded the IRA!



Someone dropped in about the overzealous anti terrorism thing. Iraq should never have been invaded - this WAS against international law. It was aimed solely at removing the head of state and replacing with an American approved regime. There were no WMD as the German chap stated (was it Dr. Hans Blick). He needed more time to prove it and wasn't given it. It was solely GW trying to finish his where his dad left off.

Yes, tell us more about international law!! Suez Canal(1956)......LOL
Who built and sold fuel for nuclear reactors(Israel & Iraq)??
Who sold submarines to the Israeli's so they could launch nukes from these subs??
International law??
Yeah, sure, whatever..............

Where does the other yank get off saying that it's allies should be a Democracy? What - you think a country should be led by a bunch of guys who get bankrolled by lobby groups to have their point heard? The Arabic (another generalisation and simplification so don't start on that one!) works for them. Why does the fact you vote make you better off? You Americans voted for a presidant last time around and didn't get him because the loser's cousin (I think) was the Govenor of the deciding state. America and Democracy - what a falicy!!

Must have hit a nerve..........LOL

And what does this have to do with Israel or Palestine being terrorist nations?? NOTHING!

it would be nice to believe that this will all be settled by anything short of nuclear war.

I'm beyond caring about what happens in the middle east now. They can carry on blowing each other up as far as I'm concerned.

I'm beyond caring about what happens in the middle east now. They can carry on blowing each other up as far as I'm concerned.


The only problem with that is they will drag the rest of the world down the pipe with them. For money, racist reasons, serveing of "God", political allies or foes and many other reasons all of our leaders have a hand or reason to care about this. What they do will effect us and our children.

I have to agree with another on this thread. This will not end until the area is nothing but radioactive black glass.

I'd like to see the whole world back away and let them work this out on their own or remove each of the other from the face of the Earth but that will not happen in the real world. Oh and for the record I feel that whoever was there first should be there now. Not have others forced on them. The real villians were the UN. Now the Villians are all sides.


Another side note stop calling the US stupid and ignorant, I am an American and in fact I am a Black American and I know this place that is home. They are not ignorant or stupid. The "people" may be but not the leaders. They are cunning and dangerous and diabolical for the most part. The "stupid" cowboys are anything but. Write them off as dumb fools and they will do to the world what has been done to the Natives of America and Africa and many more than I have knowledge of. Want to call the US sneaky and dangerous and evil then go ahead. Want to call them feeders of the world or the image of freedom or the only selfless super power on Earth then go ahead. Just stop calling them ignorant or foolish or stupid. They are far too cunning for that titile.

You Americans voted for a presidant last time around and didn't get him because the loser's cousin (I think) was the Govenor of the deciding state. America and Democracy - what a falicy!!

Brother.

The evil arabs deserved it. The Isrealis are just trying to live and then the arabs suicide bomb them so they fight back and everyone goes Isreal your evil.

...except Hizbollah, armed by Iran and the PA, which was initially armed by the Israelis to help create a Palestinian Police Force.

You are justifying terrorism and violence where there is none. It's blatently wrong and dangerous to assert that a group should sink to new lows of violence simply because it doesn't want to try the proven approach of peaceful resistance.



Are you 12 or just very ignorant? Have you read the resolution? Have you read the history of it? There were no biblical references involved in the 1947 resolution. The UN recognized that parts of Mandatory Palestine had Jewish majorities that had developed an effective system of self-government and the region was being threatened with violence.

It may seem rather surprising to you in your suburb somewhere, but the rest of the world likes to divide itself by religion, tribe, etc. Most of the world does this and it's naive and racist of us to take our Western pleuralistic view and force it on the rest of the world.

Jews aren't allowed to be citizens of Jordan, Saudi Arabia and a host of other countries in the region. Yet half of Israel's population originated in the Middle East in the last half century, kicked out by other surrounding nations. This is at heart a tribal conflict.

Yet Israel is the one country among them that allows one million Muslims to be full citizens...



Wow, you really are 12. This isn't worth discussing, you don't know any history. It's so sad that people aren't learning history.

Note that there have been dozens of resolutions against Israel in the GA, but none against the genocidal, racist Sudanese government, which is killing anyone in the region who isn't Arab.

You automaticly say i am ignorent and a twelve year old because i offer an opposing view on the conflict between israelis and palastinians(well im sorry if i dont agree with your corrupt zionist ideals)

It wasnt the UN that used biblical refrences to justify the occupations it was the zionists who invaded and stole palastine who used biblical refrences to justify their unjust actions all the UN did was wrap a bullshit resolution around the whole nonsense and made the occupation legitamite and at the same time stabbing the palastinians in the back(I have studied history for years just not the biased zionist history that people are taught in america and especially New York City)

And speaking of NYC(i live there as well and not in a suberb idiot...) there are large areas of NYC that are run by a jewish majority as well but that doesnt mean NYC should become jewish territory does it??(because that was the method you used to justify the UN recognition of a jewish state in the middle east)

The bottom line is if the Zionists were never allowed to create their state then the region of the middle east would become a much more stable area then it is right now and countless numbers of palastinian children,mothers,elderly, and men wouldnt have have to be murdered in cold blood all because of some folly zionist ideal.

Edit: oh and dont forget that the attack on america on 9/11 was mainly because of americas siding with israel so you can add a couple of thousand of unessesary american casulties all because of a small godamn zionist state that has no right existing in the middle east(how much more american blood will be spilled before we realize we have to stop supporting israel both politically and militerally)