NationStates Jolt Archive

I think it should be voluntary.

I think that some kind of education should be mandatory. Whether it's an ethnic, religious, private, public or home school shouldn't matter.

compulsory to a certain point. Or, at the discretion of the parent/guardian until they reach a certain point of education.

I'm sure we can all agree that there are certain things that it is better for the public to have knowledge of.

Compulsory.
When you're at school it can seem like the worst thing ever.
But with no education you can't make as informed decisions and won't be able to be anything but a miner or something.

Definitely Compulsory.
Without education, all sorts of people can walk on you and easily use you. And if people can do so, so can governments or authority. Education is one of the best privileges a human can hold and is, in my opinion, essential for the human race to survive and stay free from much danger, be it by humans, animals, nature, or machines.

Plus, it aides us to construct smarter towards a better future.

Definitely Compulsory.
Without education, all sorts of people can walk on you and easily use you. And if people can do so, so can governments or authority. Education is one of the best privileges a human can hold and is, in my opinion, essential for the human race to survive and stay free from much danger, be it by humans, animals, nature, or machines.

Plus, it aides us to construct smarter towards a better future.

I think it should be voluntary, especially considering how crappy the quality of education is these days.

It should only be compulsory so far as to require an education. How the kid recieves one is up to the parents. Public schools, of course, should always exist as an option.

So do I, RB. Public education is just one big brainwashing scheme to maintain the status quo. It gets students used to taking orders and doing boring work. If students don't want to go to school, it's the fault of the school workers that it sucks and no one else's.

It should only be compulsory so far as to require an education. How the kid recieves one is up to the parents. Public schools, of course, should always exist as an option.

I agree. It should definitely be up to the parents to decide what they want their kids to learn and how they want to learn it. Sex education and Darwinism or Creationism should be taught solely by the parents, in my opinion. Schools should not indoctrinate our kids in these subjects.

So do I, RB. Public education is just one big brainwashing scheme to maintain the status quo. It gets students used to taking orders and doing boring work. If students don't want to go to school, it's the fault of the school workers that it sucks and no one else's.

I agree entirely, Letila. Well said!

Agree with a lot of the sentiment in here

Kids honestly don’t know what is good for them until they look back (only being out of high school 3 years it is still fresh in my mind) They NEED to be required to get a basic amount

Though I agree that their parents and the students both should have a right in WHERE they get an education (as long as it meets a set quality standard)

The bad thing about Voluntary Public Education is that, in generations whose youth don't care much for such a thing and rather go around in the streets or go to the beach all day, they don't end up learning what our global societies are based on to survive! I will agree there are certain people who happen to know more when they don't go to school and are able to spend the time with themselves throughout life, but those kinds of people are not around in bulk and when a society is finally met with a critical decision to make, the ones in power would not know what to do.

And I happen to believe that anyone who finds ALL of school to be boring really has no drive to learn much.

people need to be educated, and if you think the states' education system is a brainwash check out Japan's system. The US at least teaches you how to analyze and decide things for yourself.

we have enough ignorant citizens as it is. we dont need to make it worse

unless you were suggesting that the important word is PUBLIC, in which case, well NO, there are plenty of private schools and parents wanting to homeschool

education is essential in the modern world

education is essential in the modern world

Agreed, but again, I think it should be up to the parent(s)/guardian(s) to decide what their kids are taught and how they are taught it.

Guys, really.

Public education is better, but if people who pay taxes for the oppertunity to have schools availible to them, and choose not to and their kid still makes passing grades on state tests and isn't completely far behind, why not let the parent choose?

Private shool too, it's just as good. Sure it's sheltered in most cases, but it's still education.

Yeash, you folks are weird.

-R. S. of UC

education is essential in the modern world

Then it shouldn't be so boring.

Then it shouldn't be so boring.

(Applause)

I agree. It should definitely be up to the parents to decide what they want their kids to learn and how they want to learn it. Sex education and Darwinism or Creationism should be taught solely by the parents, in my opinion. Schools should not indoctrinate our kids in these subjects.

No doubt... I mean, if we want our kids to believe the stork delivers babies and that kissing someone will give you AIDS, we should have that right! I mean, only trailer trash children start having sex at 13 anyway, so why should we worry they get the right information? If there are parts of history I don't like, I don't think my kid should have to learn that either. Come to think of it, I just don't like the Middle East, so why should my kids be brainwashed with geography? [sarcasm dripping, pooling, flooding]

No doubt... I mean, if we want our kids to believe the stork delivers babies and that kissing someone will give you AIDS, we should have that right! I mean, only trailer trash children start having sex at 13 anyway, so why should we worry they get the right information? If there are parts of history I don't like, I don't think my kid should have to learn that either. Come to think of it, I just don't like the Middle East, so why should my kids be brainwashed with geography? [sarcasm dripping, pooling, flooding]

Don't be a smart-ass, please. :mad:

What kind of school choices can you make in the U.S? In Canada, we have a number of choices: public or separate (Catholic) schools, charter schools (focus on academics, or sports, or culture etc), private schools, and home-schooling.

The law here is that every child has to attend school (in one of the above formats) until the age of 16, when he/she can then opt out.

That said, I am a teacher, and I am disgusted with the erosion of the education system. It is increasingly irrelevant, alienating and poorly delivered. A lot of that is because of the massive cuts to education we've been suffering under...higher class sizes, cuts to non-essential programs (you know, like art, philosophy anything remotely interesting...), lack of parental OUTRAGE (voiced to to public officials anyway) and outdated resources. I have two children who will NOT be attending public, private or other school...I will be homeschooling them.

However, in order to receive funding for homeschooling (yes, curricular resources are paid for), you must follow the curriculum of your Province or Territory. I think it works out fine, because the curriculae are actually very vague (it doesn't say you have to learn about WWII, it just used that as an example to illustrate nationalism and total war etc), an intelligent, resourceful parent can use all sort of media and methods to teach their children in an interesting way, encouraging critical thinking. Unfortunately, we are not so free within the school system.

So yes, I think parents should have a choice in their children's education, but there should be oversight to make sure the children are not being taught complete falsehoods (the way we oversee that here is that homeschooled children write the same provincial exams as other kids). However, I do not think that education should be optional, at least until a person is 16 (I'd say 18 if it were up to me actually). We need to maintain literacy and basic mathematical skills (don't tell me that learning how to read is unimportant). I also do not feel that a person under 16 has the experience to realise what opting out will mean for them in the future. It's a lot harder to go back and get an education when you're older and need to support yourself too.

Don't be a smart-ass, please. :mad:

I can, and I shall.

I think that a basic education could be compulsory, meaning up until the 6th grade or so. Maybe even up until 8th grade, but high school shouldn't be mandatory.

"No child left behind" is the dumbest idea since solar-powered flashlights. Exceptional students, or students with greater than average reading levels, math skills beyond their years, ability to learn quicker than most, are held behind with children/students who aren't as intelligent. The education system as it is now sucks. Those who don't want to be in school shouldn't be forced to be, as they aren't going to learn anything, or don't want to learn anything. If somebody wants to be content to do nothing for the rest of their lives, let them.

Those who want to go and learn something should be rewarded by getting higher paid teachers who have degrees in the fields in which they are teaching. This leads to a greater value in the education received and better equips the students. This also leads to non-value added courses such as arts and humanities not being required, but allowed as supplemental courses to broaden the minds of those wishing to take them.


These supplemental courses are popular and will not suffer from reduced class sizes due to their popularity and the teachers of said classes will not suffer from reduced pay, either. Music courses, Automotive, Computer, Writing and Literature courses are a few examples of these.

Another non-value added expense would be sports programs. Funding for these should not be taken from the tuition of students not participating in said programs. Expenses for these programs can be donated by the student's parents or the students themselves. High school sports have little to no actual value in the life of the average person. For most, it is just fun to have a little competition and exercise every now and then.

If a teacher is one of the most important positions/roles in our society, shouldn't they be paid better? Having one of the lowest pay rates in the country for one of the most important roles seems ludicrous to me.

For the US, I'd say some form of education should be compulsory. And this is mainly because we have welfare and because I want equality.

Without a high school degree, job possibilities are extremely limited in scope and few in number. That means that non-graduates end up living off of those people who did manage to finish school.

Also, if everyone (or their parents) could decide if a child should attend school, there would be many cases where children would be put to work rather than going to school. They would end up with worse jobs and less money than those that attended school.

And then personally, I don't like the idea of anyone learning whatever they would like. I think Sinuhue's sarcastic view could easily happen, not necessarily in one family, but each case could happen, and that would be sad. In the US it already can happen, if you homeschool your child, you can often teach them whatever you would like, as long as you "offer" the normal subjects.

What kind of school choices can you make in the U.S? In Canada, we have a number of choices: public or separate (Catholic) schools, charter schools (focus on academics, or sports, or culture etc), private schools, and home-schooling.

The law here is that every child has to attend school (in one of the above formats) until the age of 16, when he/she can then opt out.

its about the same in the US. public school is "free" ie, supported by tax dollars and the only expenses are pencil and paper. (and sometimes activity fees)

religious schools, private schools and homeschooling is pay as you go. no public funds of any kind are used ( i think there are a few exceptions here and there and that in some places homeschoolers can get books for "free" )

of course school should be more relevant, but i guess that costs too much money for us to pay for. sigh. its a false economy to get kids out of school with no real world skills.

but SOME education is better than none, what you learn is up to you so make the most of it.

I think up to grade eight should be compulsorary; after that, it's optional for the student, and further, all education should be free, so, people feel the motivation to seek a higher education and anyone can get it and not just those rich enough, or those lucky enough to win a scholarship.

O.K., I work in the school system in the United States. We really should require children up till eight grade to go to school. However, in the United States we are required to keep kids in school even if they are disruptive or want to do nothing. I mean they absolutely don't want to be there. I can make my class challenging and fun but there are kids who don't want to be there. They mess everyone else up. Some kids they are great at other things whether it be sports, mechanical or artistic but we don't concentrate on those things for those students. Instead we lump them into a classroom they don't want to be in with a teacher who wants to teach but can't teach because they are baby sitting.
ON the flip side, the low income schools figure out pretty quick that the rich kids have a huge advantage in this country and they give up. Provide a system that is fair and gives every student a real education based on their strengths (such as skill training) and then if a student still doesn't want to be there, let them go. Or, in general even if this wasn't to happen, lets kick the kids out of school who just go there because Mom and Dad make them. Seriously, 75% of new teachers leave before their third year in California. The no student left behind laws have made it even worse here. Change the system don't just pass "ideas" that may work.

I think it should be voluntary.

Agreed - there are *so* many kids in BSI (who are all a**holes coincidentially) at my school who could easily just move up to the B-level classes, but they just refuse to work. These kids are just a drain on the system, and if it were voluntary, then goodbye to them

its about the same in the US. public school is "free" ie, supported by tax dollars and the only expenses are pencil and paper. (and sometimes activity fees)

religious schools, private schools and homeschooling is pay as you go. no public funds of any kind are used ( i think there are a few exceptions here and there and that in some places homeschoolers can get books for "free" )

of course school should be more relevant, but i guess that costs too much money for us to pay for. sigh. its a false economy to get kids out of school with no real world skills.

but SOME education is better than none, what you learn is up to you so make the most of it.


OH CANADA, lol...........I don't know your anthem but I am singing it right now, how do your students stack up?

O.K., I work in the school system in the United States. We really should require children up till eight grade to go to school. However, in the United States we are required to keep kids in school even if they are disruptive or want to do nothing. I mean they absolutely don't want to be there. I can make my class challenging and fun but there are kids who don't want to be there. They mess everyone else up. Some kids they are great at other things whether it be sports, mechanical or artistic but we don't concentrate on those things for those students. Instead we lump them into a classroom they don't want to be in with a teacher who wants to teach but can't teach because they are baby sitting.
ON the flip side, the low income schools figure out pretty quick that the rich kids have a huge advantage in this country and they give up. Provide a system that is fair and gives every student a real education based on their strengths (such as skill training) and then if a student still doesn't want to be there, let them go. Or, in general even if this wasn't to happen, lets kick the kids out of school who just go there because Mom and Dad make them. Seriously, 75% of new teachers leave before their third year in California. The no student left behind laws have made it even worse here. Change the system don't just pass "ideas" that may work.


You are on the trolley! I agree completely.

While I never was exposed to the "no child left behind" policy, since I'm Canadian, I had to live through Mike Harris's Common Sense revolution, which saw the elimination of grade 13 alias OAC here in Ontario, and a change in the mandate for students. Mandatory province wide testing provided negative affects; such as the grade 9 literacy test. Even if you could read and write, if you failed it, you couldn't graduate from high school. Then, there was teh 40 hours of community service, which did nothing.

I never had to do that, but I know people who did and it doesn't do much for the student body. Only those who actualyl have literacy problems benefit and those who are already volunteers, but the rest of us get screwed over.

Also, this made university harder for those who graduated after me (this is 1 year after me; the double cohert; when both OAC and grade 12 students graduated), because they didn't have the benefit of OAC, which is sort of a prep year.

Further, I agree that the kids who want to be in school should get a better education and people who don't, shouldn't be forced. After all, why should tax payers waste money on students who are just going to drop out anyway? Better yet, that money could be reinvested in schools, make them better! It could be put towards universal education!

Or, we could use that money to help the children from countries striken by war, famine, poverty, disease get an education. Fund a program to let them live here in dormitories, and then when they are done, let them return home. If they are educated, they can educate those younger than themselves.

Look at Sweden! Sure they have high taxes, but they have publically funded post-secondary education!

Leave education voluntary, but provide incentive for people to seek higher education if they so desire it.