NationStates Jolt Archive

Whom would you vote for USA President

1. George W Bush - Republican

2. John Kerry - Democrat

3. Ralph Nader - Independent

4. Michael Badnarik - Libertarian

5. Others on the ballot

those crazy liberterians.

Urgh, I can't stand Libertarians. It's like the worst bits of Liberals and the worst bits of Conservatives. Well, im not keen on either of those, I hate all centrists ;)

Urgh, I can't stand Libertarians. It's like the worst bits of Liberals and the worst bits of Conservatives. Well, im not keen on either of those, I hate all centrists ;)

So, you don't like people being held accountable for their own rise or fall? Socialist, are you? Just a question, not an attack.

Urgh, I can't stand Libertarians. It's like the worst bits of Liberals and the worst bits of Conservatives. Well, im not keen on either of those, I hate all centrists ;)


OK, so why? I doubt you even know what a centrist is, as a libertarian IS NOT the same as a centrist.

Like it really matters what the people vote for. Two different sides of the same coin, the system remains the same, no matter which decorative figure head it has.


But as long as gas prices dont rise, I am guessing dem yanks will be satisfied with there choice.

All I've got to say is its a DAMN GOOD THING yall aint voting for us. If Kerry wins, he will destroy our country. That man has already proved to many people that the only people he cares about are the people who pay him and himself. He doesnt care at all about the american people, he just wants the power of rule.

Like it really matters what the people vote for. Two different sides of the same coin, the system remains the same, no matter which decorative figure head it has.


But as long as gas prices dont rise, I am guessing dem yanks will be satisfied with there choice.

Absolutly incorrect.

I hope people vote democrat... I can't because my ballot went to Elections Canada in favour of the NDP. :D

I know what a centrist is, and i know that Libertarians aren't centrists. Sorry, I had 2 hours sleep last night!

And yep, I am a socialist, but i'm not one of these bloody annoying Liberal socialists or whatever. I'm more of a Khrushchev style communist/socialist.

Having said this, I am more than prepared to compromise my beliefs to fight the right, and hence i am a member of the Labour Party, a centre/left mainstream political party in the UK. I hate the right more than the centre, so i joined up! Ahh well, I'm a big old hypocrite! But aren't we all?

Like it really matters what the people vote for. Two different sides of the same coin, the system remains the same, no matter which decorative figure head it has.


But as long as gas prices dont rise, I am guessing dem yanks will be satisfied with there choice.

Oh and by the way, us country boys take offence to being called Yanks. The yanks are the problem with this country. I say tie up all the yanks and make them watch "Hee Haw" 24 hours a day until they come out talking with a country accent and a new respect for beans.

All I've got to say is its a DAMN GOOD THING yall aint voting for us. If Kerry wins, he will destroy our country. That man has already proved to many people that the only people he cares about are the people who pay him and himself. He doesnt care at all about the american people, he just wants the power of rule.
Really?... what makes you say that I mean just because you support Bush doesnt mean you have to lie about Kerry, if you actually have a reason please tell us if not stop being crazy.

Oh and by the way, us country boys take offence to being called Yanks. The yanks are the problem with this country. I say tie up all the yanks and make them watch "Hee Haw" 24 hours a day until they come out talking with a country accent and a new respect for beans.

You lost the civil war.. *LOL* get over it ;)

You lost the civil war.. *LOL* get over it ;)

I have been continually laughing for 2 minutes having seen this very valid point!!!!!! ;)

Can anyone give me an unbiased and clear definition of Libertarian? Still can't quite figure out what there objectives are.

I said Kerry but thats only because I only know The hawks and doves. Not upto date with american politics. But I'd say vote for the most left wing candidate. Why? Because to rule a country you need to comprimise and support big business. If your right wing to start with your country will suck! But if your left wing you get rail roaded into a sensible central government.

Can anyone give me an unbiased and clear definition of Libertarian? Still can't quite figure out what there objectives are.

Lots of individualism, less barriers restricting corporations, but at the same time for civil rights and freedom for the people. That's the classical one. There are other more left wing ones like social libertarians, who are usually more socialist as regards to their views on business.

Can anyone give me an unbiased and clear definition of Libertarian? Still can't quite figure out what there objectives are.

The Libertarian Party believes that the only role of government is to ensure life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and to defend the borders. They take a lassez-faire attitude to business and personal.

Yes! Finally! Ralph Nader is on the poll choices!

"Urgh, I can't stand Libertarians. It's like the worst bits of Liberals and the worst bits of Conservatives. Well, im not keen on either of those, I hate all centrists"

Im no libertarian, but they do have more of an idea that closely relates to the constitution, next to the constitutional party that is. Don't they beleive in being fiscally conservative with minimum taxes and the most individual freedoms as one can desire?

Other than the thinking that its better to be free and then die because we shouldnt have metal detectors at airports, there really is not that much more dumbness than the dems or repubs. They take the best of both worlds and combine them usualy. Freedom from someone else deciding what a freedom is and freedom from paying to much in taxes. They take the tax issues that repubs like and the individual freedoms that both party's like, they dont care if you want to practice religion or not, own a gun or not have a abortion or not, but be responsible for yourself in what ever you decide on doing in life. The repubs and dems hate them because they are the only party that (if they had a brain) could exploit both party's own narrow restricted agenda's. The problem with the libertarians is that they will never have a shot at getting elected because they are unwilling to comprimise with either the dems or repubs on any issue, fix that and they may have a shot someday. I see thier national defense ideas and immigration as the biggest obstacle though.

You lost the civil war.. *LOL* get over it ;)

excuse me? Like I said, its you yanks that are the problem.

Can anyone give me an unbiased and clear definition of Libertarian? Still can't quite figure out what there objectives are.

Think of Darwin... :eek:

All I've got to say is its a DAMN GOOD THING yall aint voting for us. If Kerry wins, he will destroy our country. That man has already proved to many people that the only people he cares about are the people who pay him and himself. He doesnt care at all about the american people, he just wants the power of rule.
I can't tell if that is one of the best jokes I've ever heard.
Or you are a Right Winged Physco.

Stephistan is not a Yank. She's a Canadian. . .LOL.

If you want to know more about the libertarians, try www.quiz2d.com.

excuse me? Like I said, its you yanks that are the problem.

Haha, all this time and you still haven't accepted you lost the civil war.. don't tell me you're one of those renecks who drives a pick-up truck with the union jack flying.. Haha :D

Lots of individualism, less barriers restricting corporations, but at the same time for civil rights and freedom for the people. That's the classical one. There are other more left wing ones like social libertarians, who are usually more socialist as regards to their views on business.They take a lassez-faire attitude to business and personal.
Thanks... guess I'm somewhere between a liberal and a libertarian- I belive that govs shouldn't have that much control over their citizens, but i think i'm still for kerry

Haha, all this time and you still haven't accepted you lost the civil war.. don't tell me you're one of those renecks who drives a pick-up truck with the union jack flying.. Haha :D

Why would rednecks fly the union jack??????? Britain's far too lefty ;)

All I've got to say is its a DAMN GOOD THING yall aint voting for us. If Kerry wins, he will destroy our country. That man has already proved to many people that the only people he cares about are the people who pay him and himself. He doesnt care at all about the american people, he just wants the power of rule.

You have to have been asleep the last 3.5 years to think Bush has done ANYTHING for the working joe. He is the ONLY president since Hoover to lose jobs from start to end...the ONLY one... even Carter added jobs and he had Stag-flation to boot...

excuse me? Like I said, its you yanks that are the problem.
I still can't figure out.
Anyway if that is really is your sick and twister View Points.
Whats the Porblem With "Yanks?"
And why cant you admit that the south lost the civil war?
Why don't you start your sentance with a capital letter?
Why don't you think Dubya is a moron who can't lead because he is!

Thanks... guess I'm somewhere between a liberal and a libertarian- I belive that govs shouldn't have that much control over their citizens, but i think i'm still for kerry

I still have to say the state should have the power. I think most people need the state's guidance, otherwise they make the wrong decisions in life. I'm one of the few authoritarian socialists left in the world. But that's why i hate libertarians. Bloody individualist rubbish!

Nader. Because he's not in bed with big business like Bush and Kerry.


*Puts on flameproof hat and runs for cover*

Really?... what makes you say that I mean just because you support Bush doesnt mean you have to lie about Kerry, if you actually have a reason please tell us if not stop being crazy.

I'm a country boy, its not my way to lie about people. Like I said that’s the problem with you yanks.

As for why Kerry is a piece of shit, he lied to congress more then once, and he lies to the American people. People like Kerry are why people like my father were SPIT on when he returned from doing what's right, and serving this country.

If you think that ANY politician (including the one I plan to vote for, George Bush) DOESN’T lie you really need to get your head out of your ass. The difference is WHY they lie.

I've met "W" and his father. I've had time to talk to his father. His father was the type of person who would get on Air Force one and make sure EVERY secret service agent and EVERY person down even to the assistants ate before he would even order his food.

Both "W" and his father are great men, and great presidents. They did what they had to do even if they knew it would cost them an election. They did what they thought was right, not what people wanted them to do.

Ask yourself WHY someone would vote both ways on SO MANY different subjects as Kerry has. Because he cares more about people voting for him then doing the right thing. And that is a fact even if you dont like it, and even if you refuse to believe it.

Nader. Because he's not in bed with big business like Bush and Kerry.


*Puts on flameproof hat and runs for cover*

Yep, i'd vote Nader. If i was American, cus he's the least bad of all 3.

I still have to say the state should have the power. I think most people need the state's guidance, otherwise they make the wrong decisions in life. I'm one of the few authoritarian socialists left in the world. But that's why i hate libertarians. Bloody individualist rubbish!

You too?

Well, I'm sort of an authoritarian socialist. I figure we should outlaw premarital sex, abortion, and limit smoking and guns.

Nader. Because he's not in bed with big business like Bush and Kerry.

Exactly.

Do the Americans have an equivalent to the British "Monster Raving Loony Party" if so i'd vote for them. last time in Britain i think that they put a monkey on the ballot. they actually won in one region!!!

[QUOTE=Temme]You too?

Well, I'm sort of an authoritarian socialist. I figure we should outlaw premarital sex, abortion, and limit smoking and guns.



[QUOTE]

Im authoritarian, but on issues like smoking and guns, and other things such as youth crime etc. I dont take the ususal left-liberal stance on trying to reform everyone. There are some people that just HAVE to be locked away.

Do the Americans have an equivalent to the British "Monster Raving Loony Party" if so i'd vote for them. last time in Britain i think that they put a monkey on the ballot. they actually won in one region!!!

Yea, his name is Ross Perot

http://www.bcaplan.com/cgi/purity.cgi

This is the libertarian test to see if your pure or not , im just into softcore I guess, anyone into hardcore out there?

Besides Bush is giving America a bad name with all the Bushisms:
"More and more of our imports are coming from overseas" :headbang:
"The terrorists are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. they will stop at nothing to destroy our people and our homeland, and neither will we":headbang:

Yea, his name is Ross Perot
my votes with him!!!

Besides Bush is giving America a bad name with all the Bushisms:
"More and more of our imports are coming from overseas" :headbang:
"The terrorists are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. they will stop at nothing to destroy our people and our homeland, and neither will we":headbang:

Oh yes, and this is much better then getting a blow job in the oval office. Or how about telling a direct LIE to congress which caused I dont even remember how many people in Hanoi to get the worst beating of there lives while being held POW?

Oh yea, I can see why you hate him so much.

You too?

Well, I'm sort of an authoritarian socialist. I figure we should outlaw premarital sex, abortion, and limit smoking and guns.





Im authoritarian, but on issues like smoking and guns, and other things such as youth crime etc. I dont take the ususal left-liberal stance on trying to reform everyone. There are some people that just HAVE to be locked away.

What's your stance on the death penalty?

Oh yes, and this is much better then getting a blow job in the oval office. Or how about telling a direct LIE to congress which caused I dont even remember how many people in Hanoi to get the worst beating of there lives while being held POW?

Oh yea, I can see why you hate him so much.
but you've got to admit he's an idiot???

This is the libertarian test to see if your pure or not , im just into softcore I guess, anyone into hardcore out there?
I'm a medium-core.

So, you don't like people being held accountable for their own rise or fall? Socialist, are you? Just a question, not an attack.



I don't mind that at all but I would still never vote Libertarian.

Why? As I understand it, and please be gentle if I have been misinformed:

Libertarians want to totally privatize and de-fund public education. Even under our current (and fucked up) property-tax-as-school-funding system the greatest problem in our educational system is the disparity between rich and poor schools. An America in which a private education is the only education will become just another "1% own 99%" state like Brazil and so many others. While this is in keeping with a high regard for individual responsibility and freedom of enterprise, it is so very very inimicable to social justice that I can never support it.

Libertarians want to deregulate environmental protection, leaving the health of our biosphere totally to the collective consciences of industry heads. The history of the world since the industrial revolution should be enough to convince any sane intelligent person that this is a virtual guarantee of total ecological disaster.

Libertarians want to deregulate all kinds of industry and commerce. I lived through the deregulation of the savings and loan industry and I can tell you that such a blanket approach to all industries - insurance, banking, real estate, medicine, etc. - will result in chaos and probably the ruination of the working class.

Libertarians want to legalize drugs but they don't want to provide funding for education and health care, such as rehab. While the former idea might aid society greatly, the latter in conjunction with it is an utterly insane idea.

Libertarians want to repeal minimum wage laws. Great. An unregulated corporate upper-class selling us drugs while not providing us with education or health care or even a minimum wage. :rolleyes: Where do I sign up?



Like I said, if I am mistaken, please let me know. :)



I am socialist enough to think that the working class should be protected from unbridled laisez-fair capitalism, and that no one who is willing to work should have to choose between paying the rent and feeding their kids, among other things. One thing I have noticed about hardcore capitalists: they seem to like to treat the natural laws of economics as a Holy Path. What if, say, a group of right-wing epidemiologists were to say "well diseases are the way of nature, so we shouldn't try to meddle with such things"? Would half the population flock like sheep to their banners?

Probably not... and yet...

What's your stance on the death penalty?

That's the one stance im undecided on. Sometimes i think maybe it would be a good idea, but most of the time im opposed to it, because as alot of people say "There's no rich people on death row". They can all afford good lawyers, so it's on the poor that get the chair.

Yeah, that makes sense. Personally, I think that it should be reserved only for the worst offenders--namely, those who commit premeditated murder.

Edit: I've heard the movie, "Dead Man Walking," is really good about the death penalty.

but you've got to admit he's an idiot???

No, I think he's a damn good man. I would stand up and die for him if I were called to do so.

He does the right thing for the right reasons, that in my book makes him a very smart man.

No, I think he's a damn good man. I would stand up and die for him if I were called to do so.

He does the right thing for the right reasons, that in my book makes him a very smart man.
heeheeheeheeheeheehee!!!

but you've got to admit he's an idiot???

If we've resorted to name calling instead of facts I think its time to end this thread.

Oh yes, and this is much better then getting a blow job in the oval office. Or how about telling a direct LIE to congress which caused I dont even remember how many people in Hanoi to get the worst beating of there lives while being held POW?

Oh yea, I can see why you hate him so much.



What's this about Hanoi?

I'm a country boy, its not my way to lie about people. Like I said that’s the problem with you yanks.


1# IM NOT A YANK IM NOT EVEN AMERICAN


As for why Kerry is a piece of shit, he lied to congress more then once, and he lies to the American people. People like Kerry are why people like my father were SPIT on when he returned from doing what's right, and serving this country.

If you think that ANY politician (including the one I plan to vote for, George Bush) DOESN’T lie you really need to get your head out of your ass. The difference is WHY they lie.Yes and what is the difference?


I've met "W" and his father. I've had time to talk to his father. His father was the type of person who would get on Air Force one and make sure EVERY secret service agent and EVERY person down even to the assistants ate before he would even order his food.
Thats nice but doesnt mean anything about Jr.


Both "W" and his father are great men, and great presidents. They did what they had to do even if they knew it would cost them an election. They did what they thought was right, not what people wanted them to do.
I disagree I dont think W is a great man and this isnt about his father

Ask yourself WHY someone would vote both ways on SO MANY different subjects as Kerry has. Because he cares more about people voting for him then doing the right thing. And that is a fact even if you dont like it, and even if you refuse to believe it.Because he got more details and things change. its been explained in nearly every topic that mentions Flip-flops!

since Kerry is just the "answer to bush" and bush is actually bush himself (like the devil, but with no intelligence), GO NADER!

Yes! I am not alone.

No, I think he's a damn good man. I would stand up and die for him if I were called to do so.

He does the right thing for the right reasons, that in my book makes him a very smart man.
LIKE THE WAR IN IRAQ even if you think it was a good thing the reasons he gave
where wrong (deliberitly maybe, right NO)

Joe Gas said:
If we've resorted to name calling instead of facts I think its time to end this thread.

i guess it is time to end this thread gas, because its useless arguing with people that support bush, their all idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

But we dont dare say a THING about bush, he will go patriot act on our asses and we will disappear into some prison without a trial, and our families will never know wtf happened. :sniper:

Joe Gas said:
If we've resorted to name calling instead of facts I think its time to end this thread.

i guess it is time to end this thread gas, because its useless arguing with people that support bush, their all idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
lol he supports bush read the topic LOL

I would vote for the Michael guy, even though I've never heard of him.
Libertarian to the death! Not my death, of course, someone else's, most likely, but, hey, a deaths a death, right?

According to that test, I am a hardcore Libertarian. I think I lost points because I believe in having a standing military that kill civilians, but thats the way the cookie gets stolen by Filthy Imperialist Capitalist Scum I supppose.
The test being The Libertarian Purity Test (http://www.bcaplan.com/cgi/purity.cgi).

But we dont dare say a THING about bush, he will go patriot act on our asses and we will disappear into some prison without a trial, and our families will never know wtf happened. :sniper:
Shit im doomed I voted against him in the poll. Youll never take me alive :mp5:

Come join me in Canada. People don't disappear from our streets.

Shit im doomed I voted against him in the poll. Youll never take me alive :mp5:
Calm down, I've written plenty of stuff like Government Memo 1337-N3S and I have yet to dissapear in the middle of writing a

Come join me in Canada. People don't disappear from our streets.
No where is safe from BUSHMAN stoping voting for American non-republicans around the world. Is it a war is it a screw-up YES its BUSHMAN

What's this about Hanoi?

I have a friend (more my fathers friend then mine) who was in the Hanoi Hilton. Neither he nor my father ever talk about Viet Nam, but when Kerry said he was running for president we all sat around and he told me the storys.

My father was a CH-47 pilot, and Joe (the man I was also named after) was an Army Ranger who went to flight school with my father.

Joe was one of the toughest men I've ever met and when he told me what happened he just about broke down and cried. They made him watch Kerry's lies before they were beat that day. They called them baby killers. To this day Joe refuses to bring a baby into this world.

The man had his nuts removed so he could not have children. He said the worst thing he could ever wish on anyone would be to live his own life and see and feel and hear everything he saw, felt, and heard. He said he would never allow himself to bring a child into this world because of the things he saw.

I dont have to live his life to understand what he told me. His words were enough for me.

Or how about telling a direct LIE to congress which caused I dont even remember how many people in Hanoi to get the worst beating of there lives while being held POW?
Joe,

I assume you are alluding the Kerry testifying before Congress after coming back from Vietnam.

I'd like to remind you that John McCain was one of those American men in kept as a prisoner in Hanoi, yet he has never ceased to stand by the character of John Kerry, even when they disagreed politically. Most recently, he has comdemned the SBVFT ads against Kerry as "dishonest and dishonorable". He has also noticed striking similarities to the ads that were run against him as he contended the 2000 Republican primary against George Bush.

In case you have no information regarding the conditions of the prisoner of war camps in Vietnam, I assure you that prisoners were tortured on a regular basis regardless, and Sen. McCain among them. Not once has McCain spoken out against the Kerry's statements to Congress.

I've heard your testimony of Kerry's character, Joe, and I've heard McCain's.

Who do you really think I'm going to believe?

***EDIT***

Joe,
I was saddened to hear the story of your father's friend, and greatly appreciate his sacrifice. I considered taking out the relevant part in my post, but decided that was not fair. I still stand by my statements regarding Sen. McCain. He was a POW for 5.5 years, and the son of an admiral. At one point, when the Vietnamese learned of his powerful father, he was even offered parole. As required by the code of conduct ("I will accept neither parole, nor special favors from the enemy.") he refused. If he is willing to stand by John Kerry as a friend, then I have no qualms voting for him.

I don't mind that at all but I would still never vote Libertarian.

Why? As I understand it, and please be gentle if I have been misinformed:

Libertarians want to totally privatize and de-fund public education. Even under our current (and fucked up) property-tax-as-school-funding system the greatest problem in our educational system is the disparity between rich and poor schools. An America in which a private education is the only education will become just another "1% own 99%" state like Brazil and so many others. While this is in keeping with a high regard for individual responsibility and freedom of enterprise, it is so very very inimicable to social justice that I can never support it.

Libertarians want to deregulate environmental protection, leaving the health of our biosphere totally to the collective consciences of industry heads. The history of the world since the industrial revolution should be enough to convince any sane intelligent person that this is a virtual guarantee of total ecological disaster.

Libertarians want to deregulate all kinds of industry and commerce. I lived through the deregulation of the savings and loan industry and I can tell you that such a blanket approach to all industries - insurance, banking, real estate, medicine, etc. - will result in chaos and probably the ruination of the working class.

Libertarians want to legalize drugs but they don't want to provide funding for education and health care, such as rehab. While the former idea might aid society greatly, the latter in conjunction with it is an utterly insane idea.

Libertarians want to repeal minimum wage laws. Great. An unregulated corporate upper-class selling us drugs while not providing us with education or health care or even a minimum wage. :rolleyes: Where do I sign up?



Like I said, if I am mistaken, please let me know. :)



I am socialist enough to think that the working class should be protected from unbridled laisez-fair capitalism, and that no one who is willing to work should have to choose between paying the rent and feeding their kids, among other things. One thing I have noticed about hardcore capitalists: they seem to like to treat the natural laws of economics as a Holy Path. What if, say, a group of right-wing epidemiologists were to say "well diseases are the way of nature, so we shouldn't try to meddle with such things"? Would half the population flock like sheep to their banners?

Probably not... and yet...


First of all, not all of us want everything just "open". I, for one, think that we still have to protect our environment--but make sure we're not using junk science to scare people either way on any of the environmental issues.

You forgot the most important issue, though--guns. Keep the guns, so people can't just buy up everything and then abuse all others. The markets do balance out, though, so I'm guessing you won't find one owner of the entire US--certainly not like the government does now, for all intents and purposes.

I don't have children. Why am I paying for my neighbor's kid to go to school, again? It's not my job. I didn't choose for them to have that child, so therefore, they can't extort money from me to send their choice to school.

Regulation is the institution that has messed up lives more than deregulation. One rule goes in to protect a certain group, and suddenly, several other groups are out of balance. So another rule goes in. That one is flawed as well, due to the fact that humans are making the decisions. This is why the state is no better at making citizens' lives any better--because they are humans, just like the person they're regulating, except they get to screw up several millions of peoples' lives as opposed to one or two.

Libertarians aren't all thinking the same thing--just like any other party. We have variances.

The one thing that is the common denominator: You are responsible for you--and no one else gets to tell you what to do, if you aren't interfering with someone else's rights.

No where is safe from BUSHMAN stoping voting for American non-republicans around the world. Is it a war is it a screw-up YES its BUSHMAN

Get Canadian citizenship. Then you can vote for the Liberals (think Kerry), the NDP (think Nader) or the Conservatives (think barely left of Bush)

But we dont dare say a THING about bush, he will go patriot act on our asses and we will disappear into some prison without a trial, and our families will never know wtf happened. :sniper:

Bull! I have friends who were questioned, and they even had money ties to the base (al qaeda), and they wernt thrown into prison. In fact I talked to them last week. They didnt know that the church at home they were giving money to was giving money to the base, so they stopped giving money to them.

Honest people who did notthing wrong were not illtreated!

Joe,

I assume you are alluding the Kerry testifying before Congress after coming back from Vietnam.

I'd like to remind you that John McCain was one of those American men in kept as a prisoner in Hanoi, yet he has never ceased to stand by the character of John Kerry, even when they disagreed politically. Most recently, he has comdemned the SBVFT ads against Kerry as "dishonest and dishonorable". He has also noticed striking similarities to the ads that were run against him as he contended the 2000 Republican primary against George Bush.

In case you have no information regarding the conditions of the prisoner of war camps in Vietnam, I assure you that prisoners were tortured on a regular basis regardless, and Sen. McCain among them. Not once has McCain spoken out against the Kerry's statements to Congress.

I've heard your testimony of Kerry's character, Joe, and I've heard McCain's.

Who do you really think I'm going to believe?

Like I said, I don't care about what you believe, his words were enough for me.

Joe, please note my edited post above.

Why is anybody even caring about Libertarians? To argue about something that will never catch on is silly and a waste of time.

In a poll like this, where nothing hangs in the balance, people can pretend they'd actually vote libertarian. In a real world, everybody knows that a person who votes libertarian might just as well vote for the 'real' candidate because there's not a chance in Hell of that libertarian candidate ever winning anyway. Vote a party other than Democrat or Republican and you are just giving that vote to the opponent. If you wouldn't MIND giving that vote to the opponent, then go ahead... but.

The percentage which votes libertarian in a true election is near zero at all times.

Besides, everybody knows what 'lunatic fringe' really means.

:headbang:

Why is anybody even caring about Libertarians? To argue about something that will never catch on is silly and a waste of time.

In a poll like this, where nothing hangs in the balance, people can pretend they'd actually vote libertarian. In a real world, everybody knows that a person who votes libertarian might just as well vote for the 'real' candidate because there's not a chance in Hell of that libertarian candidate ever winning anyway. Vote a party other than Democrat or Republican and you are just giving that vote to the opponent. If you wouldn't MIND giving that vote to the opponent, then go ahead... but.

The percentage which votes libertarian in a true election is near zero at all times.

Besides, everybody knows what 'lunatic fringe' really means.
Libertarianism works, Hong Kong was kicking ass before they were sold out by the British.
Its just the fact that the current system of government allows people to vote themselves to have more. More Social Security, more Welfare, more Medicare, more public funding, more of everything except freedom.
It doesn't matter, the entire U.S. economy is going to curl up and die in a few years anyway. All those baby boomers are going to hit retirement, and that will be the end of it.

http://www.bcaplan.com/cgi/purity.cgi

This is the libertarian test to see if your pure or not , im just into softcore I guess, anyone into hardcore out there?

I got a 21, but then again, I am a socialist and I believe that government can be (not necessarily always is) a good thing.

17

I have a friend (more my fathers friend then mine) who was in the Hanoi Hilton. Neither he nor my father ever talk about Viet Nam, but when Kerry said he was running for president we all sat around and he told me the storys.

My father was a CH-47 pilot, and Joe (the man I was also named after) was an Army Ranger who went to flight school with my father.

Joe was one of the toughest men I've ever met and when he told me what happened he just about broke down and cried. They made him watch Kerry's lies before they were beat that day. They called them baby killers. To this day Joe refuses to bring a baby into this world.

The man had his nuts removed so he could not have children. He said the worst thing he could ever wish on anyone would be to live his own life and see and feel and hear everything he saw, felt, and heard. He said he would never allow himself to bring a child into this world because of the things he saw.

I dont have to live his life to understand what he told me. His words were enough for me.

I'm sorry for your father but he is using John Kerry as a Scape Goat:
Its easier to rationalize the pain when you have have a single identified target.
And yes some were baby killers: the Vietnamize used babies with bombs tied to them and if the soldiers difm't open fire killing it they would be blown to smitherins.
Its a terrible tactic but it worked killing soldiers who didn't want to sluaghter babies.

I've heard the stories, my step father rarely talks about it.

Most Vets don't want to believe that the govt made them fight a war that wasn't for a good reason, a excuse was what vietnam was, but not a reason.

Spitting on Vets is wrong, no matter if the war is wrong, you should respect them.
But in the end, its not Kerry's fault he chose the truth. He is just that kind of man.

I would vote for the Michael guy, even though I've never heard of him.
Libertarian to the death! Not my death, of course, someone else's, most likely, but, hey, a deaths a death, right?

According to that test, I am a hardcore Libertarian. I think I lost points because I believe in having a standing military that kill civilians, but thats the way the cookie gets stolen by Filthy Imperialist Capitalist Scum I supppose.
The test being The Libertarian Purity Test (http://www.bcaplan.com/cgi/purity.cgi).

108....

Joe Gastyou have still not answered my ?'s. Whats your problem with "yanks". Is it because were liberal or your just an intolerlant person.

Ask yourself WHY someone would vote both ways on SO MANY different subjects as Kerry has. Because he cares more about people voting for him then doing the right thing. And that is a fact even if you dont like it, and even if you refuse to believe it.
Now I don't quite get this.
Now if the people vote for him. And he wins. Thats what the people want. And I think want the people want is more important than anything.

You lost the civil war.. *LOL* get over it ;)


That was a great response!!!

http://www.bcaplan.com/cgi/purity.cgi

This is the libertarian test to see if your pure or not , im just into softcore I guess, anyone into hardcore out there?
112
I have entered the realm of the hardcore...hehe

I'm a country boy, its not my way to lie about people. Like I said that’s the problem with you yanks.

As for why Kerry is a piece of shit, he lied to congress more then once, and he lies to the American people. People like Kerry are why people like my father were SPIT on when he returned from doing what's right, and serving this country.

If you think that ANY politician (including the one I plan to vote for, George Bush) DOESN’T lie you really need to get your head out of your ass. The difference is WHY they lie.

I've met "W" and his father. I've had time to talk to his father. His father was the type of person who would get on Air Force one and make sure EVERY secret service agent and EVERY person down even to the assistants ate before he would even order his food.

Both "W" and his father are great men, and great presidents. They did what they had to do even if they knew it would cost them an election. They did what they thought was right, not what people wanted them to do.

Ask yourself WHY someone would vote both ways on SO MANY different subjects as Kerry has. Because he cares more about people voting for him then doing the right thing. And that is a fact even if you dont like it, and even if you refuse to believe it.


Its people like you that scare the hell out of me. The way you talk you remind me of the family of inbreds in the movie "Wrong Turn" . Why can't you state your opinions from just an American Citizens point of view versus a southener. Its not your so called "yanks" that are the problem its people like you that can't move on. I can respect your opinions because those are your feelings but why belittle and berate other peoples opinions because of where they live??? Please tell me what are your thoughts on why this current war started??? I thought it was to avenge "9/11" but have we yet brought to justice the individual that orchestrated the whole thing??? We went over there to get the one person that humiliated George senior. It has been like an elementary school kid game,,, you poked my daddy now I am going to poke you. Did you lose any family in 9/11?? Can you honestly feel that it is not time for a change? Please explain what is this war about? We are over there with our men and women dying for what? The price of oil is still high, what we rebuild is torn down the minute we turn our backs and our soldiers are spit on as they walk through the streets. We have people dying over here, we have children going hungry, we have children not getting an education. We have people that have no health insurance in this country. Its time we start putting back into our country instead of others. And why have we not caught Bin Laden yet? Or maybe one could believe the internet rumours that ol' George W knows where he is and they catch him right before the election. I would love to have a common everyday working person run for President. Someone that knows whats its like to go to work every day, to go do the grocery shopping, to have to stretch their paycheck to pay all the bills and hope and pray there is enough left. I have yet to see the best person run yet but I also know that each person gets a four year chance and to me Bush hasn't proven anything. Its time to give someone else a chance. Please sir (and at this moment I use that term lightly) have your opinions but keep the Mason Dixon line out of it. And a final note, another thing this country needs to do in my opinion is get rid of the electoral college. Go by the popular vote. Make the voice of each individual count. Put a cap on campaign funds. Each person should have the same amount of commercials etc. And it shouldn't be such a long drawn out time. Put up the debates state the facts give the people a month to make their decisions and vote. I hate to know the amounts of money that are wasted for their personal slams on each other and perpetual lies and half truths.

These are my opinions and if I offend anybody, race, religion, sex or location of residence I apologize but I am so tired of the whole North/South issue.

First of all, not all of us want everything just "open". I, for one, think that we still have to protect our environment--but make sure we're not using junk science to scare people either way on any of the environmental issues.

"Not all of us" ...so you're not entirely libertarian. O.K.

You forgot the most important issue, though--guns. Keep the guns, so people can't just buy up everything and then abuse all others. The markets do balance out, though, so I'm guessing you won't find one owner of the entire US--certainly not like the government does now, for all intents and purposes.

Oh those miraculous markets again... why worry when you know that Mother Nature always has your best in... wait a minute... are you actually saying that you advocate the use of guns to correct economic injustices???

Wow! :eek:

B.T.W., No, the owning 1% of the population would only be a single person if the population were something like one hundred.

I don't have children. Why am I paying for my neighbor's kid to go to school, again? It's not my job. I didn't choose for them to have that child, so therefore, they can't extort money from me to send their choice to school.

Fair enough. When their choices grow up to be cops and soldiers and E.M.T.s and firefighters and politicians, they won't have to lift a finger to do anything for you, now will they? Oh but you're no doubt counting on being one of the 1%, so you'll pay as you go, right? You'll be paying a lot when the unschooled children of the working class are running the streets... or to keep them from it, you'll have to pay more taxes to get G.E.D.s for the ones you hire to be cops.

Regulation is the institution that has messed up lives more than deregulation. One rule goes in to protect a certain group, and suddenly, several other groups are out of balance. So another rule goes in. That one is flawed as well, due to the fact that humans are making the decisions. This is why the state is no better at making citizens' lives any better--because they are humans, just like the person they're regulating, except they get to screw up several millions of peoples' lives as opposed to one or two.

How old were you during the 80s? How were the savings and loan regulations that had been in place fucking up people's lives?

Libertarians aren't all thinking the same thing--just like any other party. We have variances.

Good to know there are some like you who can actually grasp what the results of one or two of their theories, put into action, will be. B.T.W. just what would your approach to the environment be? And what studies do you consider to not be junk science?

The one thing that is the common denominator: You are responsible for you--and no one else gets to tell you what to do, if you aren't interfering with someone else's rights.

Very noble and even charmingly childlike. If Halliburton were to by completely legal means buy up all the private land in America and gut it for natural resources, nobody's rights would be interfered with. Big Fucking So What? I don't want that happening, I don't want that to be able to happen, and to Hell with Halliburton's "freedom" to do so or any individual's "freedom" to do so. When they become a monopoly and gobble up everything and set up cheap box housing that the working class can afford on the pennies they will be legally paid, the cops that break up the strikes and unions will be Halliburton too. Or Microsoft or whatever or a cabel of the fortune 500 companies. Plus they get to sell us drugs, and "just say NO" to any educational programs that might tell our children that they shouldn't use them.

But I'll give you this: considering the rest of the package, it's a smart move to hold onto your guns.

Libertarians who have actually given thought to their party's ideas must be either totally innocent and optimistic when it comes to faith in human morality, or the most cynical opportunistic self-centered bastards ever.

I wouldn't vote for any of these guys. (not that i can, something to do with nationality). as long as the international policies arn't positive, there is no good president for a big mighty Nation like America.

Besides, why would you vote for any other than Bush or Kerry, that would be a trown away vote...

I wouldn't vote for any of these guys. (not that i can, something to do with nationality). as long as the international policies arn't positive, there is no good president for a big mighty Nation like America.

Besides, why would you vote for any other than Bush or Kerry, that would be a trown away vote...

Doesn't your voting system have preferences? Ours does :D

so I can vote for who I want without throwing it away - yay for democracy.

Hmmm, looks like Kerry is going to win....

What about write ins? Me I would write in none of the above.

Very noble and even charmingly childlike. If Halliburton were to by completely legal means buy up all the private land in America and gut it for natural resources, nobody's rights would be interfered with. Big Fucking So What? I don't want that happening, I don't want that to be able to happen, and to Hell with Halliburton's "freedom" to do so or any individual's "freedom" to do so. When they become a monopoly and gobble up everything and set up cheap box housing that the working class can afford on the pennies they will be legally paid, the cops that break up the strikes and unions will be Halliburton too. Or Microsoft or whatever or a cabel of the fortune 500 companies. Plus they get to sell us drugs, and "just say NO" to any educational programs that might tell our children that they shouldn't use them.
YOu are missing the important part of your statement.
That important word buy. Now for them to buy your property, you would have to sell it to them, yes? Since this hypthetical scenario is a libertarian nation, there would be no "Imminent Domain" laws forcing you to sell. As such, you could simply flip the bird at the people who come to buy your house and go on about your business.
This happens already anyway, towns are bought up by companies drilling for oil or building retirement communities and all sorts of other fun.

YOu are missing the important part of your statement.
That important word buy. Now for them to buy your property, you would have to sell it to them, yes? Since this hypthetical scenario is a libertarian nation, there would be no "Imminent Domain" laws forcing you to sell. As such, you could simply flip the bird at the people who come to buy your house and go on about your business.
This happens already anyway, towns are bought up by companies drilling for oil or building retirement communities and all sorts of other fun.

Without minimum wage laws or really any sort of commerce regulation it would easily become a case of sell or starve. Hardly a choice.

haha, only one problem, most of the people hear probably arnt eligible to vote whether they arnt old enuff or just arnt american like myself. haha

Get Canadian citizenship. Then you can vote for the Liberals (think Kerry), the NDP (think Nader) or the Conservatives (think barely left of Bush)
Dont tell anyone im really european ;)

haha, only one problem, most of the people hear probably arnt eligible to vote whether they arnt old enuff or just arnt american like myself. haha

Thats true....but I can and am going to vote. So that trumps most of that arguments here. ;)

good for you lad

Thats true....but I can and am going to vote. So that trumps most of that arguments here. ;)
If only the american let Europe and the UN decide every thing for them. Oh well

haha

If only the american let Europe and the UN decide every thing for them. Oh well

Yeah, thats going to happen. :rolleyes: Europe has a poor record of deciding things for other people. Colonialism is dead.....

Yeah, thats going to happen. :rolleyes: Europe has a poor record of deciding things for other people. Colonialism is dead.....
haha
He got it anyway

well im european so what you expect

Without minimum wage laws or really any sort of commerce regulation it would easily become a case of sell or starve. Hardly a choice.
Your assuming that all the companies in the world will fold up into one big super company.
With a free market, people will go to whomever has the best price. If things get to expensive, or labour gets too cheap someone will realize that they can make a killing selling goods at a lower price than the other companies and paying more. Yet, he'll still make an obscene profit.
Someone else will see that work and pay slightly more than the other guys and sell for slightly less. He'll make an obscene profit.
And on, and on, it goes until people are buying and selling stuff for what it is really worth, and not the government adjusted value.

Your assuming that all the companies in the world will fold up into one big super company.
With a free market, people will go to whomever has the best price. If things get to expensive, or labour gets too cheap someone will realize that they can make a killing selling goods at a lower price than the other companies and paying more. Yet, he'll still make an obscene profit.
Someone else will see that work and pay slightly more than the other guys and sell for slightly less. He'll make an obscene profit.
And on, and on, it goes until people are buying and selling stuff for what it is really worth, and not the government adjusted value.

No... on and on it goes until one big megacorporation has bought up all the other companies and owns all the means of production. They will then be able to buy and sell at whatever prices they want, and they will eventually own the nation.

So we start at who would you vote for president and we then end up on coorperations taking over the world.... ummm... I would say like the media needs to be doing... stick to the issue at hand.
What concerns me more about John Kerry is that he doesn't stand for anything. He goes with whatever is popular. When he got back from Vietnam and saw vietnam was un popular he critisized it. When he saw the war in Iraq was popular he was all for it, now that it is unpopular he is against it. He doesn't stand for anything he flip flops with whatever is popular. I dont want a president who wont stand for anything, hence why I will be voting for Bush. I dont always agree with what he does, but at least he has the courage to stand for it. What happened in Vietnam or what didn't happen isn't that important to me. I care about who Kerry is and what he has been doing since he has been a senator (mostly flip floping if you ask me).

So we start at who would you vote for president and we then end up on coorperations taking over the world.... ummm... I would say like the media needs to be doing... stick to the issue at hand.

Just talkin' 'bout how implimenting the Libertarian platform would mean becoming a Corporate Police State. :) :) :)

Hmm, I think I may have to vote for Nader. I just don't like the other candidates. Plus my state will most likely be won by Bush anyway, so I have no worries about me being the reason the Democrats lose my state.

So I'll give my vote to the person who looks more fit, and expresses more of my views. Ralph Nader gets my vote.

Kerry is just plain scary. Bush is too stubborn. The difference is that Kerry is on the outside and does not see what is going on (because he refused the security briefings from the CIA). He repeatedly said that Bush was politicizing the recent terror alerts....until he FINALLY agreed to hear the security briefing, then he shut up about that.

Thats the main problem with Kerry, he is absent. 76% of the time from his intelligence comittee BEFORE 9-11, 100% of the time after.

Bush gets the overall picture every day, as can Kerry. That Kerry chooses NOT to is quite telling.

Hmm, I think I may have to vote for Nader. I just don't like the other candidates. Plus my state will most likely be won by Bush anyway, so I have no worries about me being the reason the Democrats lose my state.

So I'll give my vote to the person who looks more fit, and expresses more of my views. Ralph Nader gets my vote.

Yeah, make sure he's on the ballot, last time I heard he couldn't get on them in something like 10 states.

Yeah, make sure he's on the ballot, last time I heard he couldn't get on them in something like 10 states.

Thats because the Republicans AND the Democrats have hijacked the whole process to keep any other party or candidate from ever winning the office. They both suck.

Hehe...you can't be serious, I mean come on...they hijacked the election?

Hehe...you can't be serious, I mean come on...they hijacked the election?

No, they hijacked the PROCESS. Do their candidates have to get petitions signed to get on the ballot? No.

Do their candidates have to pay fees to get on the ballot? No.

They set these restrictions up to keep anyone else from winning or even being able to run in all 50 states.

Dude, that's because those parties are independent parties and plus the Republicans and Democrats are the only parties that ever get picked.

Dude, that's because those parties are independent parties and plus the Republicans and Democrats are the only parties that ever get picked.

There's a reason for that....because the Republicrats have the machines (and now the laws they themselves put in place) to make it a VERY steep climb for anyone trying to unseat them. Yes, it was on purpose, and yes, they want to keep the two-party system going. Campaign finance reform just locked those two parties in for the long haul. The third parties can't raise enough money to compete now.

Ignorance to the process just keeps the process in place, and the chance for change nil.....dude.

You lost the civil war.. *LOL* get over it ;)

LOL, Viva la Humour!!!!

No... on and on it goes until one big megacorporation has bought up all the other companies and owns all the means of production. They will then be able to buy and sell at whatever prices they want, and they will eventually own the nation.
You don't have any proof of this aside from your own stupid conspiracy theory.
I want you to point out one time when a corporation seriously and in full bought a country.

In a poll like this, where nothing hangs in the balance, people can pretend they'd actually vote libertarian. In a real world, everybody knows that a person who votes libertarian might just as well vote for the 'real' candidate because there's not a chance in Hell of that libertarian candidate ever winning anyway. Vote a party other than Democrat or Republican and you are just giving that vote to the opponent. If you wouldn't MIND giving that vote to the opponent, then go ahead... but.

Fine, but what if we consider them both to be "the opponent"? My disagreements with the two major parties are serious enough that I simply couldn't vote for either of them. Sure, a vote for the libertarians is little more than a protest vote, but at least it reflects my actual beliefs.