NationStates Jolt Archive

Just a question, to me it seems kind of funny. Seeing as how thats exactly what the Romans and the British used to say.

First off, I'd remove that last statement, its not going to earn you friends.

I'm an American and I think eventually our world influence will fall. Hell, it already is. Note the fact that the EU has more worth than the dollar, and thats just when the Europeans organized themselves into something capable of challenging the US economically.

To what Empire do you refer? Unlike the Romans and Brits, the US isnt a Colonial Empire. You may be referring to the Economic "Empire" that has been constructed. In that case, it will fall when we cease to be the top producer in the world. I suspect that will depend more upon the outcome of the commercial application of the exploration of Space than anything else. Well, either that or sustained War. (With Bush at the helm, that looks like a possibility.)

But truthfully, what I think is funny about your question? Why do you think that American's think our world dominance is going to last forever?

Well until we kill ourselves with our own creations by accident. First of all, the others nations that fell had mighty opponents we have one which is China, the others were colonial we are not, the others were bent of world domination we are not(against what many europeans might think), and the most important reason is the rest of the world has turned into a bunch of queer-loving green peace commies(even thought we are leaning WAY to close to that way than I like).

NO

It will like all other empires ...

Globalization. All that I have to say.

If you don't beleive in your own nation's destiny, then you don't build an empire. Isn't it a little premature to be talking about the end of the American empire anyway? Seriously, by the standards of historical empires the US empire should be good for a few more centuries, this is way too soon to even be thinking about the end of the American Empire - it will likely outlast all of us and our childrens' children.

this kind of thread pi**es me off.
i'm an american. quite frankly, i don't five a fling if the US keeps its territories, and to be honest, i hope they pull every damn troop out of 'em and hand them over to the natives!
second off, i have a severe problem with this issue for two reasons. one, it comes up too damn often, and two, just about every major power in eurpoe has had colonies or territories or whetever at some time.
aw f&*# it, you just like talking about this, don't you? i'll let you twiddle your thumbs over it, while i go care about something relevant to my daily life.

Just a question, to me it seems kind of funny. Seeing as how thats exactly what the Romans and the British used to say.

Only the ignorant and young believe this. I've not known an American over the age of 14 who's not ignorant that actually believes that the United States will fall. America will fall. The European Union will fall. China will collapse in on itself unless change comes within the next 100 years. Only rednecks think America will never crash.

Only the ignorant and young believe this. I've not known an American over the age of 14 who's not ignorant that actually believes that the United States will fall. America will fall. The European Union will fall. China will collapse in on itself unless change comes within the next 100 years. Only rednecks think America will never crash.

America will not fall for at least 400 years.

Only the ignorant and young believe this. I've not known an American over the age of 14 who's not ignorant that actually believes that the United States will fall. America will fall. The European Union will fall. China will collapse in on itself unless change comes within the next 100 years. Only rednecks think America will never crash.The American Hegmony or the American Empire? I expect the American hegmony to fade by the end of the 22nd century, probably the 21st but I wouldn't bet on it. But the American Empire is good for considerably longer.

The American Hegmony or the American Empire? I expect the American hegmony to fade by the end of the 22nd century, probably the 21st but I wouldn't bet on it. But the American Empire is good for considerably longer.

When I refer to the American Empire, I mean as "top dog". America is top dog. #1 in the world. That'll probably collapse sooner or later. Not any time soon, unless Bush gets re-elected (And even then, probably not, though there'll be a greater possibility). It's more likely that we'll destroy each other in some massive, devastating war before the year 2100, though. Oh, and by ourselves, I mean the world.

When I refer to the American Empire, I mean as "top dog". America is top dog. #1 in the world. That'll probably collapse sooner or later. Not any time soon, unless Bush gets re-elected (And even then, probably not, though there'll be a greater possibility). It's more likely that we'll destroy each other in some massive, devastating war before the year 2100, though. Oh, and by ourselves, I mean the world.
I thought so, that's why I asked. I'm not as pessimistic as you though, I expect a long build up to the next world devastating war, and only trade wars and proxy wars for this century. Tough on the people involved, but small on the world scale. The country you really want to watch is Brasil though, not the EU or China - that one's got some staying power.

All "Empires" think they will last forever...its a hopefull, positive and ego feeling.

When it falls, it falls. But for now I will do what I can and enjoy our *cough*everlasting*cough* empire.

America's done a really good job at making a lot of enemies for temorary gain. More and more Americans are ashamed by and dissatisfied with American government and policy. I can easily see the US crashing in on itself during either this generation or the next. That is, of course, assuming nothing significantly changes.

Haven't you heard of Menifest Destiny? America is protected by Jesus magic.

Haven't you heard of Menifest Destiny? America is protected by Jesus magic.

That had to be one of the funniest things I've heard all day.

Ooh, I've always wanted to use this, but it is WAAAAY TOO offensive.

If Americans wanted to rule the world, there would be only one government
today; it would be seated in Washington D.C., and everyone who objected
would join Hiroshima and Nagasaki in the Glow-in-the-Dark Club. :gundge:

Haven't you heard of Menifest Destiny? America is protected by Jesus magic.

Jesus magic is pretty cool, with all the water-into-wine stuff. I'm ok with that. Let them bomb the east coast. We've got liquor. Do you think Jesus can branch out and transform water into vodka and vermouth?

american consumer culture isn't going to disappear to soon, if at all. i mean, everyone hates american government, but its not like they actually have a government - its just a corporate war of senator sponsorships. the government could really just disappear and leave a massive collective of international companies to sell us coke and cigarettes and we wouldn't know the difference.

Haven't you heard of Menifest Destiny? America is protected by Jesus magic.

I'm sig[ing] that!

go to blockbuster and rent Deus Ex. Thats how its all going to end.

Just a question, to me it seems kind of funny. Seeing as how thats exactly what the Romans and the British used to say.


Ahhh... we have an empire? I think your a little mistaken. America hasas a few provinces but so do the other european powers. I don't see how that is an empire. In order for Iraq to be a colony, we would have to colonize it.

Haven't you heard of Menifest Destiny? America is protected by Jesus magic.
:D :D :D :D :D :D

and everyone who objected
would join Hiroshima and Nagasaki in the Glow-in-the-Dark Club. :gundge:

Hahhahauahahahahah 9/11 was hilarious. Americans can join thier friends in the 'fall out of the building club'.

Now.....

A blatant piece of disgusting inconsideration for those who died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki deserves an equal turn correct?

Usually I would disagree, but as most Americans failed to criticize this disgusting insensitivity, I would think it was justified.

America's done a really good job at making a lot of enemies for temorary gain. More and more Americans are ashamed by and dissatisfied with American government and policy. I can easily see the US crashing in on itself during either this generation or the next. That is, of course, assuming nothing significantly changes.

You highlight the difference between America today and Rome and Britain before. They had either a Caesar or a King to deal with. If you want to get rid of one of those, you usually resort to a bloody assasination or revolt. In America, if we dont like the direction our country is taking, we get an opportunity to fix it every 4 years at the voting polls. That alone gives the US a significant advantage over the empires of old.

Just a question, to me it seems kind of funny. Seeing as how thats exactly what the Romans and the British used to say.

Every Empire thinks it will last forever.
So much time spent not looking at the past.
Empires cannot endure; especially with a far more sinister geological time bomb than Yellowstone...

Hahhahauahahahahah 9/11 was hilarious. Americans can join thier friends in the 'fall out of the building club'.

Now.....

A blatant piece of disgusting inconsideration for those who died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki deserves an equal turn correct?

Usually I would disagree, but as most Americans failed to criticize this disgusting insensitivity, I would think it was justified.

By your standards of eye-for-an-eye justice, Hiroshima and Nagasaki is more than justified, in fact one could argue the nuclear attacks are not nearly enough to punish the Japanese who slaughtered, tortured, and raped millions of innocent Asian civilians during WWII. However it is a good thing that not many people are bloodthirsty like you and most people correctly realize that the killing of civilians is always reprehensible, whether at Hiroshima or on 9/11.

By your standards of eye-for-an-eye justice, Hiroshima and Nagasaki is more than justified, in fact one could argue the nuclear attacks are not nearly enough to punish the Japanese who slaughtered, tortured, and raped millions of innocent Asian civilians during WWII. However it is a good thing that not many people are bloodthirsty like you and most people correctly realize that the killing of civilians is always reprehensible, whether at Hiroshima or on 9/11.

You failed to see my point.

Nobody questioned what he said. Yet instantly somebody questioned what I said, that proves my point quite comprehensively.

You failed to see my point.

Nobody questioned what he said. Yet instantly somebody questioned what I said, that proves my point quite comprehensively.
True he was being insensitive to the victims at Hiroshima and Nagasaki but I am just addressing your long history of hypocrisy which is not limited to just this thread... you have always been a proponent of savage and bloody Greek revenge against the Turks who raped Cyprus but you are always quick to condemn the nuclear attacks against Japan which is considered by many to be fitting revenge for Japan's war crimes.

Why do you think that all Americans think that way?

Why do you think that all Americans think that way?

He didn't say 'all'.
Not every Briton was keen on the Empire and not all of them thought it would last forever. However, those in charge did, just as those in charge continue to think it now.

Super powers come and super powers go, America will be no exception. History has taught us this rather well. Now, wishing for a nation to fall is a terrible thing to do. I do no such thing. I just realize the reality of history. Lets face it, for all the policy I disagree with with the American government, I'd rather have them as the super power then lets say umm China. So, while it will happen most likely one day, I have no predictions on when that day will be, I can only hope that when that day comes, it will be an equally free nation or better that takes the helm for all our and our childrens sake.

It dosnt matter how great American THINK they are. The British Empire was the Greatest and will stay the Greatest empire for all time.

Super powers come and super powers go, America will be no exception. History has taught us this rather well. Now, wishing for a nation to fall is a terrible thing to do. I do no such thing. I just realize the reality of history. Lets face it, for all the policy I disagree with with the American government, I'd rather have them as the super power then lets say umm China. So, while it will happen most likely one day, I have no predictions on when that day will be, I can only hope that when that day comes, it will be an equally free nation or better that takes the helm for all our and our childrens sake.

I wonder what the EU would be like as a super power.
I'm guessing the same as the US but with French people.
I do want to see the US fall on its own because I'd rather be around to see it and laugh than to not be.

It is really interesting how much hatred can be spewed out on one thread. Any educated person knows that so called empires don't last forever. Instead of wishing bad things onto other countries why don't you work towards making a positive environment in the world. All this nationalism, I hate queers, I can't wait for them to fall, us vs. them. is what causes this world to be full of hate and wars. Look at yourself as part of the problem and not the solution.

It is really interesting how much hatred can be spewed out on one thread. Any educated person knows that so called empires don't last forever. Instead of wishing bad things onto other countries why don't you work towards making a positive environment in the world. All this nationalism, I hate queers, I can't wait for them to fall, us vs. them. is what causes this world to be full of hate and wars. Look at yourself as part of the problem and not the solution.

Nah, I don't want anyone to invade them or anything.
I'm waiting for the Americans who dislike the government and so on to bring it down from within like the Russians who didn't like the Soviets did a while ago.
Hopefully with as little fighting and killing as possible.
I don't hate the average American, I hate Yanks and the Oil Barons.

I think that we (the US) wont have time to fall.

I mean, look...
All around you, there is evidence of countries pulling together, and cooporating. Pretty soon, I predict, the US and the rest of the America's will pull/join together to form one "country". The US will still be a country, but inside another country. Kind of like the EU. Europe has joined (or will join) to make the continent one country.
Now using common sense..
Our world is growing too small everyday. 100 years from now, Earth will be known as one "country". Mars will be our next homeland. Earth will dump its citizens out to America, just like Europe and Asia dumped its citizens out to the Americas.
Now I will stop. I have a lot of theories, but this is the one that I believe in the most.
Thats my 2 cents.

To borrow from Frank Herberts Dune Books.

"Every revolution sows the seeds of its own destruction."

Just because america will fall as an empire doesn't mean it'll fall as a nation...

The British Empire didn't fall - we gave our colonies and Imperial interests independence, which is a different thing.

Just because america will fall as an empire doesn't mean it'll fall as a nation...

When the British Empire fell it took a lot of things with it.
The UK remained intact for a while but even now we can see the cracks there.
The old Empire spirit was gone, the British government lost their fighting spirit in the end.
Time was we would have told the Yanks to stick it up their arse and swivel, now we have a puppet for a Premier.

Nah, I don't want anyone to invade them or anything.
I'm waiting for the Americans who dislike the government and so on to bring it down from within like the Russians who didn't like the Soviets did a while ago.
Hopefully with as little fighting and killing as possible.
I don't hate the average American, I hate Yanks and the Oil Barons.

We bring down governments we dont like all the time. It's called Free Elections and it happens every 4 years or so.

We bring down governments we dont like all the time. It's called Free Elections and it happens every 4 years or so.

I'm thinking more of the current mode of thinking and economically as well.

The Roman and the British empire lasted forever. They both had very long lasting legacies that helped make them immortal. I hope the same can be said about the good ole US of A in 200 years.

Just a question, to me it seems kind of funny. Seeing as how thats exactly what the Romans and the British used to say.
It's not going to last forever. I'll give it 20 years at a maximum.

U.S.A.: *wanders into a country minding its own business.* DISARM YOUR WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION! NOW!
Country: We don't have any.
U.S.A.: We will search your country!
Country: Like you did with Iraq?
U.S.A.: THIS MEANS WAR!

- One year later, middle North America will lie in ruins and those who didn't get smart and move to Canada will be amongst the rubble.

This is my prediction of the future. =)

I'm thinking more of the current mode of thinking and economically as well.
well usually that takes place about once a decade through the process of free elections.

well usually that takes place about once a decade through the process of free elections.

Not really.
How many years on is the UK and still Thatcher's spectre hovers around.

It's not going to last forever. I'll give it 20 years at a maximum.

U.S.A.: *wanders into a country minding its own business.* DISARM YOUR WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION! NOW!
Country: We don't have any.
U.S.A.: We will search your country!
Country: Like you did with Iraq?
U.S.A.: THIS MEANS WAR!

- One year later, middle North America will lie in ruins and those who didn't get smart and move to Canada will be amongst the rubble.

This is my prediction of the future. =)

Actually, the other country will be in ruins. America will be more humble after being wrong twice. Jon Kerry will run again in 08 and win after Bush's second term showed Bush's incompetence.
He will lead the country better and smarter.
However America only has some 20 -30 years at best before some issues of corruption if not dealt with will mess it up.
Don't worry only a couple of years after this The Devil will unite the world in the EU with his charasmatic ability.
And a poor, humble man walks with a cane talks about Heavenly Father.
You see the Devil will act like Christ coming from Heaven with a Chariot of fire: he will lead many christians astray.
But the humble man with a still soft voice will be the Chosen One and will lead the world into enlightenment.

But bah, tis only ramblings.

Not really.
How many years on is the UK and still Thatcher's spectre hovers around.About every ten years in the US a major change in the polical landscape happens, although the past is still there. The US still bears the ghost of Wilson's presidency, but the country no longer bears much resembelance to Wilson's US. The Grinich revolution, the Reagan Revolution, Nixon, Camelot and so, about every ten years there is a major change in the worldview, sometimes it is a expansion in the same direction - Grinich and Reagan, and sometimes it is a complete reversal - LBJ and Nixon, but it is a majot change. These changes might the be the cause or the effect of a shift in the worldview of the majority of americans, but they are a fickle bunch and the changes occur with monotonous frequency.

Why do people think that we all think alike?

Why do people think that we all think alike?

It doesn't matter how you all think.
This is about the governing forces.

And maybe change comes easier to the US than to the UK.
After all, we only have one major party to elect right now.

America's done a really good job at making a lot of enemies for temorary gain. More and more Americans are ashamed by and dissatisfied with American government and policy. I can easily see the US crashing in on itself during either this generation or the next. That is, of course, assuming nothing significantly changes.




When have americans not been dissatisfied with american government and policy?


I think just because of the way the media is today you just hear about it more and they make the problem larger than it actually is. They have a bad habit of doing that.

When have americans not been dissatisfied with american government and policy?


I think just because of the way the media is today you just hear about it more and they make the problem larger than it actually is. They have a bad habit of doing that.

Not necessarily true.
The media can also make people more aware of what is really going on; it may be the case that the problem has always seemed smaller than it is.

Civil Rights for blacks was accelerated by the media in a way never possible on its own and only by that achieved some gains faster than it would otherwise have done.

I am glad this topic's title has managed to take one of the most culturally diverse nations in existence and formed one generalized outlook on its people. It makes me tingly inside, it really does.

As a citizen of the "Evil American Empire," I can honestly say I don't care if America has an empire or not. We're already doing it all wrong as it is, we should be turning Iraq into a colony and stuff and make Bush an emperor for life. Hmm, maybe I can run for emperor one day. I'll work towards expanding into Europe. France and Britain can be the 51st and 52nd states.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go cut the lawn...errr I mean, scream out the window of my suburban home how America's glorious empire will rule this world forevermore, because that's what Americans do. I should know. *rolls eyes*


America's done a really good job at making a lot of enemies for temorary gain. More and more Americans are ashamed by and dissatisfied with American government and policy. I can easily see the US crashing in on itself during either this generation or the next. That is, of course, assuming nothing significantly changes.
Yes, Americans will make bitter civil war and tear this nation apart because we don't like President Bush, who is up for re-election this year. Talk of revolution is sweeping through the neighborhood Meijer. Last night, as I was getting some Taco Bell, the cashier was telling me how they are going to burn the vile oppressors out of the White House and bring the Senate to it's knees. We have to look out for that Dick Cheney though; he's a real tyrant. (Significant changes like a new administration in the White House? Yeah that happens every 8 years at the max.)

He didn't say 'all'.
An unqualified statement is logically equivalent to the universal. Logic 101, remember?

I am glad this topic's title has managed to take one of the most culturally diverse nations in existence and formed one generalized outlook on its people. It makes me tingly inside, it really does.



Ain't it though?

Absolutely hilarious really. I don't think there's a clear-thinking american who honestly believes that our "Empire" will last forever.

Believing that anything tangible is everlasting requires a complete lack of the presence of reality in one's thought processes.

The whole idea is just.....moronic.

I mean, of course it will darn well end! The sun is gonna explode eventually!

[/sillyness] :p

Actually, the other country will be in ruins. America will be more humble after being wrong twice. Jon Kerry will run again in 08 and win after Bush's second term showed Bush's incompetence.
He will lead the country better and smarter.
However America only has some 20 -30 years at best before some issues of corruption if not dealt with will mess it up.
Don't worry only a couple of years after this The Devil will unite the world in the EU with his charasmatic ability.
And a poor, humble man walks with a cane talks about Heavenly Father.
You see the Devil will act like Christ coming from Heaven with a Chariot of fire: he will lead many christians astray.
But the humble man with a still soft voice will be the Chosen One and will lead the world into enlightenment.

But bah, tis only ramblings.
Sorry man, I don't share your religious beliefs. Billions of others do not share them either. In a place like this, talking about politics, I'd really rather it be about politics than about <Insert name of a God from a random religion>.

The other country would probably be decimated, sure. I didn't say they wouldn't. We have teh übAr weapons of mass destruction and could easily level the entirety of Eurasia by basically hitting a button.

But that's not the point.

The point is that sooner or later, someone's going to get fed up with the "We own the planet and we have these weapons to PROTECT everyone!" attitude the American government has portrayed for the past few decades. When that happens, America and possibly the entire world (Ragnarok! =D) is going to get smothered in a creamy marinara, with a light sprinkling of garli...whoops. You get the point.

You know... we aren't the only nation in the world. Why the Hell doens't anyone ever go after France for being stuck up and not giving certain liberating nations the thanks they deserve?

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go cut the lawn...errr I mean, scream out the window of my suburban home how America's glorious empire will rule this world forevermore, because that's what Americans do. I should know. *rolls eyes*

Let me join you, "I AM AMERICAN HEAR ME ROAR!!! Grrr... we're evil!!! America mad!!! America smash!!!! :headbang: We will crush you all!!! All Hail Uncle Sam!!!" :rolleyes:

An unqualified statement is logically equivalent to the universal. Logic 101, remember?Not in translation of English to logic. A statement like this only refers to a trend of the majority, and should usually be translated as "most", or preferably as "Why do americans in general believe . . .". One can disput this claim about americans in general, but the tramslation is better than "Why do all Americans believe . . .".

Both America and France´s empires will fall, and with France´s fall, the EU will fall, and the Allies´s grip on Germany will loosen and eventually vanish. And the Germans may rise up against them, and Germany shall again take her rightful place as ruler of Europe. And as for America, well, it should be divided between Canada, Mexico, the British, and the Native Americans. Hawaii will become a free country once again, and Alaska will independently ruled by the Inuits...

Wow. That is the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. I hope you were joking. World War II is over, get over it. There are no "allies" anymore, and if Nazis rise up and take over Germany, I garauntee that Monkees will fly right out of my ass. France's empire? Excuse me while I take a 15 minute break to laugh my ass off. I'm sure Germany could take over France right now withought any problems or especially any interventions from "allies" or anyone else. Be our guest :rolleyes:

An unqualified statement is logically equivalent to the universal. Logic 101, remember?
Not in translation of English to logic.
Yeah, there to.

A statement like this only refers to a trend of the majority, and should usually be translated as "most", or preferably as "Why do americans in general believe . . .".
No. It should be translated as "all". If "the majority" is meant, then "the majority" should be used, rather than the unqualified, which is "all".

That's just how statements work. Here endeth the lesson.

Both America and France´s empires will fall, and with France´s fall, the EU will fall, and the Allies´s grip on Germany will loosen and eventually vanish. And the Germans may rise up against them, and Germany shall again take her rightful place as ruler of Europe. And as for America, well, it should be divided between Canada, Mexico, the British, and the Native Americans. Hawaii will become a free country once again, and Alaska will independently ruled by the Inuits...

Oh, thank you. I haven't laughed that hard in quite some time. :p

I'm proud of my German heritage and all... but I really don't see that happening.

Just a question, to me it seems kind of funny. Seeing as how thats exactly what the Romans and the British used to say.

Actually, I think our "empire" has already fallen, around the Cold War's end. While we still have influence, it is much more easily kept in check by everybody else

Actually, I think our "empire" has already fallen, around the Cold War's end. While we still have influence, it is much more easily kept in check by everybody else

Hmm... a possibility...

Although History has taught us that every Empire will fall, I sure hope the American one lasts a LONG long time.

America's done a really good job at making a lot of enemies for temorary gain. More and more Americans are ashamed by and dissatisfied with American government and policy. I can easily see the US crashing in on itself during either this generation or the next. That is, of course, assuming nothing significantly changes.
Americans are not "ashamed" of their government......Throughout history we have had many ignorant Presidents......We just get over it. When we become dissatisfied enough we elect another. Thus Democracy.

Americans are not "ashamed" of their government......Throughout history we have had many ignorant Presidents......We just get over it. When we become dissatisfied enough we elect another. Thus Democracy.

Exactly, hence why we should be proud of our government. Since as it is meant to be, WE, the American people are the real government, who elect ppl to do the job for us.

Although History has taught us that every Empire will fall, I sure hope the American one lasts a LONG long time.

Now you're talking! Long Live the Evil American Empire!!!

Hail Caesa...um, Uncle Sam!

Fuck history. History also tells us that humans haven't gone to Mars but that doesn't mean it can't happen. Long live the Evil American Empire indeed.

Heh heh, you can tell the time zone difference, all the Europeans are going to bed now, but here in America we've still got a decent bit of day left and time to defend ourselves!

i figure that some day the whole world will be chinese

with a bit of indian thrown in

the head of the earth government will be the emperor of china and our biggest religious concept will be filial piety

the star ship enterprise will have a captain named LI

i figure that some day the whole world will be chinese

with a bit of indian thrown in

the head of the earth government will be the emperor of china and our biggest religious concept will be filial piety

the star ship enterprise will have a captain named LI

Um... the chinese are communist. They got rid of the Emperor long time ago. The Japanese still have an Emperor. All Hail Akihito!!!

To steal from my favorite play (Henry V), a lot of you seem to be spanning the work of many years into an hourglass.

First of all:
Pax Romana: 27 BC - 180 AD
Pax Britannica: 1812-1870 or 1914
Pax Americana: 1990-? (my guess is at least 2040, likely longer)

One could postulate that the US became an "Empire" after WW2, but this isn't very satisfactory as the USSR served as a counterbalance. And I think that's what all this is about. It is also not quite the same, as America does not seek out territory or riches of it's own. (Though you can make a case for cheap oil. However, one commodity does not an economy make. Just ask some Nederlanders about tulips...)

What about the UN money laundering? What about the BILLIONS the French, Germans and Russians each lost with Saddam's ouster? The international community are no angels, either. No matter what your nation or politics, no country is "clean" in the international arena.

Iraq will ultimately get "squared away" and the US will remain as it is, that is, until something MAJOR happens. And I'm not talking rebellion/marching in the streets bullshit. I'm talking about a MAJOR historical event. Simply put, if the US did collapse to even half it's current "power" (which would still leave it more or less dominant), the world economy would be in the toilet.

The thing with America, as opposed to every previous "Empire", is that it is multifaceted. It is a political, ideological, cultural, military, economic and sociological power, that one must admit has done much more good for the world than the world has done for it. This is not to say that this was easy or benefited everyone. Yes, you can make a case that other "empires" were multifacted too, but none has even come close to the hemogeny that the US has in all of these aspects.

Europe was a mess since the fall of Rome until two world wars (in which the US played a major role) and a cold war got things settled. Africa is still a mess, mostly due to European colonialism gone wrong. The Arab world a place which is not ((by and large) at least evolving as a) democratic/human rights loving region. This inherently cannot continue, just as the 5 remaining Communist nations will, at some point, convert. My money is on Cuba after Castro dies, China in a generation, and Vietnam/Laos/North Korea as soon as what passes for their economies collapse utterly.

Yes, we Americans are proud. We have our faults, just like everyone else. But time and circumstance has put us in a unique position in history, and this must not be wasted.
And before you say it, yes, this post may seem egotistical or even paternalistic. However, until the UN actually solves a problem (Sarajevo anyone? Rwanda?), the US has to step up to the plate. Anyone who says any differently is either sucking on sour grapes, or (worse!) does not care about the plights of the world.

I imagine the United States will fall much as the Roman Empire did. Economic difficulties along with barbarian (terrorist) attacks.

Um... the chinese are communist. They got rid of the Emperor long time ago. The Japanese still have an Emperor. All Hail Akihito!!!
DUH
the chinese are communist NOW (in name only)
what is to stop them from going back to a proper confucian system?
i think that is where it all will end up in a couple hundred years. not so much because they will defeat the US but because they will outbreed us and buy the rest of the world (now that they are allowed to make money, its only a matter of time)

Nothing lasts forever. I refer those who are overly concerned with the permanence of any political, religious, or economic institution to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, and it's ultimate logical application.

I'm developing a new theory on why we may fall. It'll be that we become a victim of our own progress. What if nanotechnology is developed? Even if it wasn't developed here, assuming that the US is around, we'd have a big part in its distribution. What I'm especially worried about are nanomachines and nanocomputers. If something can cheaply build a product atom by atom (and do it quick enough), what point is there for the human to exist?
This would be a technological breakthrough akin to the industrial revolution. Before then, China was the most powerful nation on the planet. Afterwards, China failed to catch up until much later, and by then, Europe far surpassed it. I'm afraid that nanotechnology will have a similar effect, and worst yet, the US would help it along. Of course, such a scenario isn't likely for at least another 200 years, and for now, the question is purely academic.

The country you really want to watch is Brasil though, not the EU or China - that one's got some staying power.

My vote goes with Indonesia.

I like and agree with your thinking Markreich.

My vote would go to the country most devoted to the education of it's citizens. In a global market, access to resources isnt limited by those available in your own country. We all know ditch digging isnt the job of the future, so it will necessarily be in fields involving Science and Medicine.
On that basis, and observations here in America, I think that India has made the most progress in that area. You cant move without bumping into a Doctor or Computer programmer from India, but you find very few mowing your lawn or washing your dishes.
In a country with that large of a population it makes sense that their greatest export would be educated citizens. As you live and work with them, their impact is far greater than a toaster made in China. You grow to understand and accept their culture, and their point of view because they are your friends and co-workers.
America has the advantage of resources, that will fade over time, but educated people will always be in demand, no matter who is in control of the world ;)

America will fall as an Empire and I believe the War on Terror will be it's downfall. The truth is, you just CAN'T beat the terrorists, because they're not a proper army like in the past. It will be like the British or the Russians in Afghanistan, when fighting an army which is a guerilla army, you WILL lose.

Perhaps this will not "destroy" America, but will severely cripple it. I personally liked it better when the US stayed out of our businesses and kept to themselves, I hope they do that sometime. The only thing worse than Yankee isolation is Yankee imperialism, but you will not last forever.

South America will be the next superpower, as they finally have sensible governments in Brazil, Venezuela etc, who have resisted Yankee imperialism for now, and if these governments stay in place i reckon South America will be the new "biggie" power.

Nothing lasts forever. I refer those who are overly concerned with the permanence of any political, religious, or economic institution to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, and it's ultimate logical application.
You realize that such is a gross misapplication of the 2LOT.

Perhaps this will not "destroy" America, but will severely cripple it. I personally liked it better when the US stayed out of our businesses and kept to themselves, I hope they do that sometime. The only thing worse than Yankee isolation is Yankee imperialism, but you will not last forever.
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Cripple in what way, could you please elaborate?

oh and about the south americans, how much rebellion and internal strife do they deal with?

More than us.

America will fall as an Empire and I believe the War on Terror will be it's downfall. The truth is, you just CAN'T beat the terrorists, because they're not a proper army like in the past. It will be like the British or the Russians in Afghanistan, when fighting an army which is a guerilla army, you WILL lose.

British in Malasia? They won.

Hambali (http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/crime/terrorists/hambali/)'s southeast asian super-state, anyone?

"Hambali's vision was (and presumably remains) to unite Southeast Asia under an Islamic banner, by means of violent overthrow of the region's existing governments. Hambali's Islamic "super-state" would encompass Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei, the Philippines, Cambodia and Thailand.
If you think 9/11 seemed like a "failure of imagination" on the part of U.S. intelligence agencies and policy makers, then the failure to focus on Hambali can only be due to an apocalyptic lack of imagination

Although the odds are pretty daunting, Hambali's ambitious plan would, if successful, create a full-fledged superpower under the control of extremists just like bin Laden.

According to the CIA world factbook, Hambali's super-state would have a population of nearly 420 million people (compared to the U.S. population of 280 million). The conscript base of men fit for military service would number well over 75 million, significantly higher than the U.S. The super-state would have a chokehold on shipping lanes in the South China Sea providing access from Asia proper to the Indian Ocean, enabling it to exert significant control over sea trade and airspace flowing to India, Africa and Australia.

In addition to the traditional weapons of terrorism, Hambali's [Jemaah Islamiah, a terrorist organization,] is armed with several logistical and political weapons. Malaysia and Indonesia are both already Islamic governments with a bad history of enforcement against terrorists in general and JI in particular. Both governments also opposed the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan and are generally anti-U.S. on both cultural and policy levels. Indonesia flatly denies the existence of any al Qaeda presence within its borders, which is blatantly ridiculous on the face of it. Even the U.S. can't make that claim."

Why do American's think thier Empire is going to last forever?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a question, to me it seems kind of funny. Seeing as how thats exactly what the Romans and the British used to say.


I think the "thier" in the title says it all.

Fuzzy thinking and inattention to detail. Then again it could just be an honest mistake, as I'm not sure of the possibility of editing titles of threads.

Americans, we prefer "USians" by the way, don't have an empire. The "EMPIRE" you're refering to is simply the mis-perceived impression of our present global state of history though the eyes of a petulant child.

This is not an ad-hominum attack. Merely my impression if anyone posing this question in this way.

youre right,

but maybe if Bush can stay in power, and then pass the throne to some other relative, you can have a dynasty!

no, its an empire, and like all, it will crumble under its own greed.

read: manifest destiny.

Hambali (http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/crime/terrorists/hambali/)'s southeast asian super-state, anyone?

"Hambali's vision was (and presumably remains) to unite Southeast Asia under an Islamic banner, by means of violent overthrow of the region's existing governments. Hambali's Islamic "super-state" would encompass Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei, the Philippines, Cambodia and Thailand.
If you think 9/11 seemed like a "failure of imagination" on the part of U.S. intelligence agencies and policy makers, then the failure to focus on Hambali can only be due to an apocalyptic lack of imagination

Although the odds are pretty daunting, Hambali's ambitious plan would, if successful, create a full-fledged superpower under the control of extremists just like bin Laden.

According to the CIA world factbook, Hambali's super-state would have a population of nearly 420 million people (compared to the U.S. population of 280 million). The conscript base of men fit for military service would number well over 75 million, significantly higher than the U.S. The super-state would have a chokehold on shipping lanes in the South China Sea providing access from Asia proper to the Indian Ocean, enabling it to exert significant control over sea trade and airspace flowing to India, Africa and Australia.

In addition to the traditional weapons of terrorism, Hambali's [Jemaah Islamiah, a terrorist organization,] is armed with several logistical and political weapons. Malaysia and Indonesia are both already Islamic governments with a bad history of enforcement against terrorists in general and JI in particular. Both governments also opposed the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan and are generally anti-U.S. on both cultural and policy levels. Indonesia flatly denies the existence of any al Qaeda presence within its borders, which is blatantly ridiculous on the face of it. Even the U.S. can't make that claim."

having a large amount of people doesn't make you a superpower

You have to have the technology and economy to both develop and purchase weaponry to equip such a force. I'm just shocked your evening coming up with that. Shipping lanes, hmmmm hard to close those without a modern and powerful navy and last time a checked the USN is the big boy on the block there. By a lot. Both in number of ships and the technological advancement of such vessels.

And what will this large army use for weapons, AK-47's, RPG's. RPK's and PKM's?

good for light infantry i suppose, but becoming a superpower you also need the air power and armored vehicles to TAKE territory not just defend.


oh and good luck overthrowing Thailand who happens to be pretty buddy buddy with the US, considering our militaries train together. and they use relatively modern US equipment.

British in Malasia? They won.

And the U.S. in El Salvador. And Fujimora in Peru. And numerous others.

The idea that a guerilla force cannot be defeated is just wrong. It is perpetuated by those that don't know history, bowing at the altar of their ideology.