NationStates Jolt Archive

No, I'm not talking about going to a restaurant:). I mean the Reservation system for First Nations people that exists in both the U.S and Canada (which during Apartheid the "homelands" system was based on by the way). The Reservations are under the auspices of the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs in Canada, which is a branch of the Federal government. Our schools and many programs are both federally and band (reserve) funded. However:

-When you move off Reserve, you lose many benefits.
-Many native women who marry non-natives lose their status as Indians, as do their children (like me). This means despite the popular assumptions, not all Natives get free school (University and so on).
-Reservations without oil deposits or casinoes resemble Third World slums, where abuse and suicide are rife, and unemployment is astronomical.
-Band councils are often (but not always) corrupt, and most band money is spread among the Council's friends and family.

What do YOU think should replace the Reservation system, and what (if any) assumptions do you have about the Reservation system, and First Nations in general?

Integration into the larger outside society comes to mind.

No, I'm not talking about going to a restaurant:).
Ahh i was gonna suggest a first come first serve system

Integration into the larger outside society comes to mind.

Bingo. Joey P got it in one.

Ever been to Membertou (Its a Canadian Reservation) Has neither Oil, nor a large casino, just three small ones. There currently building a lot. What they did was elected in a band with native people who are quite business savy, so they are taking government money and grants and building up quite an infrastructure.

What I think we need is more of that, more using the considerable amount of government money that we pour into the reservation system and use it for building up them as a community, eventually into self sufficiency.

Problem is, too many native people are old fashioned, and the current system is just breeding a society who is very happy to live on the welfare we give them, which is quite a lot of money, if you include the tax breaks and other perks of being native. What we need to do is trey and motivate this generation to work. However we will not see native self sufficency for another 50-60 years, since we have built such a strong culture.


It is a shame, another shame is we let the natives get away with breaking our laws regarding hunting and fishing, as well as other laws (See Oka). I dont mean to sound too anti native, however just because they were here first in this land does not mean they should be given anything special, I believe this has also contributed to the society we have, natives must realize that they cant go making huge land claims and other demands of the government just because we 'stole' their land.


Oh, by the way, I live 5 minutes from Membertou and 30 from Eskasoni (Another forward thinking (Abet not as much as Membertou) Reserve). Eskasoni being the largest reserve east of Mountreal, as well as there being two other Reserves near here, Chapel Island and Whycobogma (I cant spell it) both about 1.5 hours away, so I see the people a lot and know a bit how it works, at least down here.

Integration into the larger outside society comes to mind.

How would that be accomplished? A sudden dissolution of the Reservations, and an exodus of Natives to the cities? How long should this integration take, and how should it happen??

The abolition of the nationstate. N47|0n41|zm |z 73h 5u><0rz!!!!!1111

How would that be accomplished? A sudden dissolution of the Reservations, and an exodus of Natives to the cities? How long should this integration take, and how should it happen??
The best way would be through voluntary emigration off the res. People from every different country and culture have moved into the USA and made lives here.

Problem is, too many native people are old fashioned, and the current system is just breeding a society who is very happy to live on the welfare we give them, which is quite a lot of money, if you include the tax breaks and other perks of being native. What we need to do is trey and motivate this generation to work. However we will not see native self sufficency for another 50-60 years, since we have built such a strong culture.

Those perks you mention really vary from Band to Band. Some Bands are very poor, and despite the fact they are supposed to provide housing, on some reserves you wait upwards of 10 years for a house, and meanwhile three or four families are living together in a shack. (unless you're on the council, then you bump yourself up to a new house) Some bands have more money than they know what to do with, and give out huge cheques to members on their 18th birthday, which usually ends up spent within a year with nothing to show for it. As well, if you are non-Status (which makes you no less Indian, just not eligible for "perks"), you get zip.

It's a catch 22 for many Natives who don't want to live on reservations because there is little no no job opportunity, and the schools on many are notoriously poorly-run (the graduation rate in native run schools is much lower than the national average). If you decide to try an get ahead off-reserve, you're usually on your own (though more job-training agencies etc. are sprouting up), so you aren't really encouraged to leave. As well, despite the fact that Canadians and First Nations have been living together for about 200 years, most Canadians have very little knowledge about Native culture, and fall into stereotypical patterns of thinking (Native are drunks, are all on welfare, get their school paid, don't pay taxes on cigarettes etc.). More Natives live in cities, than on Reservation right now, and do not receive "perks". We do however, have the dubious distinction of the highest suicide rate, and the lowest per-capita income of all other Canadian ethnic groups.


It is a shame, another shame is we let the natives get away with breaking our laws regarding hunting and fishing, as well as other laws (See Oka).

Those hunting laws by the way are YOUR hunting laws, imposed on a people that relied completely on wild game. We certainly shouldn't be using hunting rights as an excuse to hunt wild game and sell it out of season(which is highly illegal, but happens sometimes), and not all Natives are as good conservationists as we should be, but a lot of families STILL eat almost exclusively wild meats (especially in the northern parts of the provinces, and in the Territories). Denying us our traditional food supply is punative...considering that the native hunting season for game like moose, caribou and deer doesn't extend all that much further than the one for the rest of Canadians. (moose are actually only good to hunt for about a month, after that the meat is really terrible and musky). Why should trophy hunters be allowed to waste meat, when few natives hunt solely for sport? If the hunting is to provide food (and again, it is illegal to sell game hunted out of regular season), then I don't see the problem. It should NEVER be allowed for commercial purposes, however, which some of the fisheries are doing.

I dont mean to sound too anti native, however just because they were here first in this land does not mean they should be given anything special, I believe this has also contributed to the society we have, natives must realize that they cant go making huge land claims and other demands of the government just because we 'stole' their land.

We absolutely can and should make demands of the government. We should be given reparation for the sexual and physical abuse committed in Residential schools. We should be compensated for a culture that was nearly destroyed by forced assimilation. We should have rights to the land that was ours before it was stolen (that's where hunting rights fit in), and the history books should be rewritten to include OUR history, which has also helped make Canada what is is now, as much as any European settlers have. We should, and we do demand these things, and the government has at times listened. They are considering Residential school reparations. Our languages and culture are given support through federal funding, which allows us to teach our children these things in school. History taught in mainstream Canada is shifting to include our accomplishments. All these things are happening because Native people demanded to be included. Somewhere between wildly innappropriate massive land claims, and demands for cultural dignity, we will find a middle ground. To stay silent now, and decide enough has been done would be an injustice. I wish there was more dialogue between Natives and non-Natives, because I think we all have a stake in what happens.

Before I reply, what part of Canada are you from? (I'm guessing Ontario, Sask or Manitoba?)

Ahh i was gonna suggest a first come first serve system
Not being a smart ass, I make the same suggestion.
They were first, so they should be treated as such.
Reparations for one thing, and no those shitty reservations do not count one bit towards those reparations--and yes I work for a living and would gladly see my tax dollars go towards trying to make up for stealing this land.

Not being a smart ass, I make the same suggestion.
They were first, so they should be treated as such.
Reparations for one thing, and no those shitty reservations do not count one bit towards those reparations--and yes I work for a living and would gladly see my tax dollars go towards trying to make up for stealing this land.
Um...no. Not a chance. You don't see Russia giving reparations to all the ethnic minorties within its boundaries, and giving them new lands. You don't see that happening in any part of Africa. It doesn't happen in South America. It doesn't happen in the Middle East. In fact, no conquered people have ever been given anything like the reservations in the sense of being granted an independant, to some degree, state after their lands have been conquered.

So to finish off. Absolutely not.

Um...no. Not a chance. You don't see Russia giving reparations to all the ethnic minorties within its boundaries, and giving them new lands. You don't see that happening in any part of Africa. It doesn't happen in South America. It doesn't happen in the Middle East. In fact, no conquered people have ever been given anything like the reservations in the sense of being granted an independant, to some degree, state after their lands have been conquered.

So to finish off. Absolutely not.
Your right, we should run America just like Russia or the Sudan, or Iran, yes brilliant examples of the policy we should emulate.

The whole idea of a reservation system is quite unpleasant sounding to me. It definitely seems divisive. People should primarily be recognised as equals in any system because ethnic differences are insignificant when seen in the context of the Homo Sapiens sapiens species as a whole. That is not to say that certain marginalised groups in society should not receive additional benefits but those benefits should be constructed in a manner that includes rather than excludes those groups. From memory indigenous peoples from both Canada and Hawaii come to New Zealand to study the progress Maori have made which i think is a very positive trend.

I was formulating a response to this, but as I read through, I find Sinuhue has put things into perspective better than I was going to do, hence, I'll thank Sinuhue and just say "ditto".

As for The New Confederation's drivel, I'm not going to even bother. It's just one of those things you have to shake your head about.

Um...no. Not a chance. You don't see Russia giving reparations to all the ethnic minorties within its boundaries, and giving them new lands. You don't see that happening in any part of Africa. It doesn't happen in South America. It doesn't happen in the Middle East. In fact, no conquered people have ever been given anything like the reservations in the sense of being granted an independant, to some degree, state after their lands have been conquered.

So to finish off. Absolutely not.
Ah, so rather than trying to set a higher standard, we should follow Russia, Africa, South America and the Middle East in their treatment of minorities? Given those regions high quality standards of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, I guess that makes sense.

:roll:

I just read an paragraph on this in National Geographic. I was surprised to hear that two-thirds of all natives in the US live off reservation.
Anyhow, the thing holding them back in the US is the Bureau of Indian Affairs. The BIA must approve of every reservation's financial plan before it can be put into use, and that takes months to do. I'd personally like to see that the Federal Government recognizes natives as a distinct tribal entity, and give them control of sacred lands. Otherwise, they intergrate into the general population. Immigrants to this land have done it in their lifetimes. It's been 120 years of peace between the USA and any native tribe, and most natives now realize that the US isn't going away. I think it wouldn't hurt to reintergrate them. However, if they really wanted it, the government could declare some land as eligible for habitation only by natives, and thus, they can form their own communities.

I'm from Alberta originally, but I've been living in the Northwest Territories for the past four years. The North doesn't actually have a reservation system like the provinces do, simply because there are very few white (or other non-natives) living up there (outside of Yellowknife and Whitehorse:)). However, the Dene and the Inuit have been "settled" into communities, and a lot of the same problems as in reservations apply. The big difference however, is that the land claim process up North is a lot stronger (they didn't sign away their rights not knowing they were doing so, mostly because no one thought there was anything in the North worth taking). I live in a town called Inuvik, which is pretty close to the Arctic Ocean, and up there the Gwichin (Dene) and Inuvialuit (Inuit) have almost settled their land claims. What this has meant is:

-All development on their lands (diamond or gold or other mineral mines etc.) must go through an extensive environmental impact study that is then approved by the Gwichin and Inuvialuit. To make sure a certain amount of money STAYS in the territories (De Beers is famous for getting out of that, and just funnelling all their money out of the countries they have mines in), a certain percentage of workers must be hired from the North, and a certain amount of business must be given to Gwichin or Inuvialuit owned companies.

- Proposed superconstruction, such as the Alaska natural gas pipeline (which would pass almost through Inuvik) must create employment and fund certain community projects (in hospitals, schools, etc).

- Three levels of government must act in order to protect natural resources (including caribou and other wildlife): the Federal and Territorial governments, and the Native councils. Less chance of just taking the money on the sly and forging the assessments.

- Non-natives are exposed to Gwichin and Inuvialuit curriculum in schools as a matter of course, and there is much more integration between the many cultures. (by the way, there is a large Arab community in Inuvik, from diverse nations) Native languages are taught in all the schools, as well as French.

However, the North still has many problems in needs to overcome. It does show, however, that land claim settlements does not necessarily mean "all you non-natives off our land". It just means more than one level of government oversees the development and protection of that area.