NationStates Jolt Archive

*its obscene the way Bush calls Iraqis "free" even tho hes killing them like dogs in the street--free to die for halliburtons profits, I guess

Iraqi Soccer Team Balks at Bush Ads
And this news from the Olympics and Greece. Sports Illustrated is reporting that the Iraq national soccer team is calling on President Bush to stop running campaign ads using the team. In one ad, a narrator states "At this Olympics there will be two more free nations -- and two fewer terrorist regimes." The soccer team's coach said "My problems are not with the American people. They are with what America has done in Iraq: destroy everything. The American army has killed so many people in Iraq. What is freedom when I go to the [national] stadium and there are shootings on the road?"
www.democracynow.org

Yeah, I heard this on the radio. Wonder why there's no exploitation of the Afghani teams? Probably has something to do with Bush not wanting to remind us of Afghanistan or Osama... Were they [the athletes] oppressed prior to our dissolving their country into anarchy? I don't remember...

Oh well, I just think it's cool some women from Afganistan got to compete in the Olympics this year...

You're acting like soccer teams have never been exploited before.

This was already posted earlier, and THAT post actually included a link to the relevant story.

Yes, it is apalling that a country can take a team to the Olympics free from fear of a beating if they lose. The fact of the matter is the soccer team is now excelling under the Uday-free conditions they now have.
If Bush uses it as an example of the new freedoms in Iraq then whats the problem with that? It is hardly exploitation, just publicising a fact.

Yes, it is apalling that a country can take a team to the Olympics free from fear of a beating if they lose. The fact of the matter is the soccer team is now excelling under the Uday-free conditions they now have.
If Bush uses it as an example of the new freedoms in Iraq then whats the problem with that? It is hardly exploitation, just publicising a fact.
Yeh it's true, the Iraqi FOOTBALL team is excelling now, they beat Portugal 4-2!

Iraqi Soccer Team Balks at Bush Ads
And this news from the Olympics and Greece. Sports Illustrated is reporting that the Iraq national soccer team is calling on President Bush to stop running campaign ads using the team. In one ad, a narrator states "At this Olympics there will be two more free nations -- and two fewer terrorist regimes." The soccer team's coach said "My problems are not with the American people. They are with what America has done in Iraq: destroy everything. The American army has killed so many people in Iraq. What is freedom when I go to the [national] stadium and there are shootings on the road?"

If this was even said, I don't see anything to back this up but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, perhaps we should remind them what it was like under the previous rule of Saddam Hussein. Have we not heard the horror stories about what Uday (or was it Qusay who was in charge of the Olympic Committee, I think the former) did to atheletes who did not perform perfectly. The torture, the beatings, the murder of their family. Yes I am sure that these people want to revisit that regime. And yeah we've destroyed everything, killed so many people, that the nation is actually up in arms 100% about us being out. No in actuality the insurrections in Iraq are such an insiginificant number of people that it isn't even a sizeable minority. But the media being what it is gives it more attention than a girl walking around without a bra in a room full of old, dirty men.

:: sigh ::

Here is what I am sick of. Liberals can say whatever they want about conservatives and Republicans, no matter how it is said, what they exploit, what they say, etc. But the second that a Republican says something it is wrong and exploitation and this and that, and as usual, liberals start crying and whining.

Case & Point
Bush 9/11 ads featured one scene, no more than 7 seconds, of firemen carrying the stretched with the flag draped over to signfy that the site of WTC site was done. There was so much whining about the exploitation of firefighters, etc. and such by the Kerry camp.

At the DNC, Kerry featured a firetruck and firemen (in full gear) from the Detriot FD. Now they were there for the purpose of Kerry.

Here Bush had something that symbolized the end of the tradegy at the WTC and that the clean up was done, it was time to move on and rebuild.

And now comes the responses of "evil conservatives being nazis, fascists, etc." I know the deal; I know the responses.

Yeh it's true, the Iraqi FOOTBALL team is excelling now, they beat Portugal 4-2!

Amazing what the freedom to enjoy their sport without the dark shadow of Uday does for confidence and performance.

Yeah, I heard this on the radio. Wonder why there's no exploitation of the Afghani teams? Probably has something to do with Bush not wanting to remind us of Afghanistan or Osama... Were they [the athletes] oppressed prior to our dissolving their country into anarchy? I don't remember...
yeah but Bush denied them the right to choose their oppression

You're acting like soccer teams have never been exploited before.thats true but iraq just wants Bush to stop looting their country

Okay, I think in the the sake of fairness, we should hear from someone who ISN'T currently being exploited by Bush..... *looks around the room*....Anyone??? ANYONE???

Bush is exploiting everything "Iraqi" and instead of welcoming them into the non-political arena of the Olympics, he is capitalizing on them, just like he capitalizes on America.

It is pretty sickening. The neocons who control Bush (Bush is a moronic cipher for these people) will stop at nothing to win the election. They'll stop at nothing to try to convince the American people that everything is getting better in Iraq, when in fact life there is catastrophic, due to Bush's intervention.

Say want you want about Saddam, but if you were to ask the Iraqi people today was life better before, would they want Saddam back, then of course, they'd want Saddam back. That's how bad things have become due to the neocons' needless intervention.

well, wait and ask their children in 20 years if they are glad about what happened...

well, wait and ask their children in 20 years if they are glad about what happened...

Yes, heaven forbid we look at the big picture.

Say want you want about Saddam, but if you were to ask the Iraqi people today was life better before, would they want Saddam back, then of course, they'd want Saddam back. That's how bad things have become due to the neocons' needless intervention.

What part of your ass did you pull that out of? The only people that want Saddam back are the few that benefitted under his rule, a fraction of the percentage.

The thing to realize here is that the people quoted in this and other articles that have talked about this aren't Saddam loyalists. These Iraqis aren't Ba'ath party loyalists who had it great under the former regime and who want a return to it. These are people who look at their country and blame the US for the shape it's in, and you know something? They've got a point.

May I remind everyone who's talking shit about how everyone's glad Saddam's gone that in terms of standard of living, people in Iraq are not better off right now than they were, and the way Allawi's cracking down, they may not be in the long run either. We never secured the country--hard to do when you lack the manpower--and as a result, we are hated there.

Personally, I believe the US has the moral responsibility to get Iraq back into good shape. We've fucked it up, and we are responsible, even though I opposed this war from 6 weeks after we went into Afghanistan. We owe the Iraqis. But in the end, I get the feeling we're just going to have to pull out and let them sort it for themselves, because currently, it looks like we're making things worse.

It is pretty sickening. The neocons who control Bush (Bush is a moronic cipher for these people) will stop at nothing to win the election. They'll stop at nothing to try to convince the American people that everything is getting better in Iraq, when in fact life there is catastrophic, due to Bush's intervention.

Say want you want about Saddam, but if you were to ask the Iraqi people today was life better before, would they want Saddam back, then of course, they'd want Saddam back. That's how bad things have become due to the neocons' needless intervention.
your right again of course--If everything was goin so well in Iraq why does Bush need a backdoor draft?

The thing to realize here is that the people quoted in this and other articles that have talked about this aren't Saddam loyalists. These Iraqis aren't Ba'ath party loyalists who had it great under the former regime and who want a return to it. These are people who look at their country and blame the US for the shape it's in, and you know something? They've got a point.

May I remind everyone who's talking shit about how everyone's glad Saddam's gone that in terms of standard of living, people in Iraq are not better off right now than they were, and the way Allawi's cracking down, they may not be in the long run either. We never secured the country--hard to do when you lack the manpower--and as a result, we are hated there.

Personally, I believe the US has the moral responsibility to get Iraq back into good shape. We've fucked it up, and we are responsible, even though I opposed this war from 6 weeks after we went into Afghanistan. We owe the Iraqis. But in the end, I get the feeling we're just going to have to pull out and let them sort it for themselves, because currently, it looks like we're making things worse.
this is exactly right

Yeah, right. You've been watching too much Fox News propaganda. Don't you know that all the Iraqis want is stability right now? That the chaos Bush has created economically and politically is far worse than the relative stability enjoyed under Saddam? That democracy in Iraq is probably impossible and that whatever phony democratic system Bush imposes will collapse in a few years and Iraq will end up as another muslim extremist nation like Iran?

Iraq could only ever be held together by a military/secular dictatorship like Saddam's. All we've created is a nightmare of violence in Iraq and anti-American religious fanaticism in the whole middle east. Bravo Bush.
the scarey thing is Bush isnt done--he wants to destroy Iran next and who knows what country after that-Bushs campaign slogan should be "4 more wars"-hes a christian fanatic trying to start armaggedon

I find it a tad ironic that it seems the ppl who are saying that it's ok for Bush to use the Iraqi football (footbal, not soccer) team as political capital are the same who decried the Iranian team using the wrestler to make a political statement against Israel.
Regardless, aren't the Olympics meant to be completely apolitical?
Also you'd think the Bush-campaign would of had the decency to ask these ppl before-hand if they minded being used in his re-election campaign. For no other fact that it might back-fire if they all come out against Bush.

The thing to realize here is that the people quoted in this and other articles that have talked about this aren't Saddam loyalists. These Iraqis aren't Ba'ath party loyalists who had it great under the former regime and who want a return to it. These are people who look at their country and blame the US for the shape it's in, and you know something? They've got a point.

May I remind everyone who's talking shit about how everyone's glad Saddam's gone that in terms of standard of living, people in Iraq are not better off right now than they were, and the way Allawi's cracking down, they may not be in the long run either. We never secured the country--hard to do when you lack the manpower--and as a result, we are hated there.

Personally, I believe the US has the moral responsibility to get Iraq back into good shape. We've fucked it up, and we are responsible, even though I opposed this war from 6 weeks after we went into Afghanistan. We owe the Iraqis. But in the end, I get the feeling we're just going to have to pull out and let them sort it for themselves, because currently, it looks like we're making things worse.

Standard of living just doesnt go from crap to great in a day. You know now something along the lines of 90% of Iraqis have electricity consistently thats something they didnt have before. Not to mention they can say what they want without being kidnapped have there legs broken and there family members raped and killed.

Im so tired of people complaining about how its still bad there but we barely had an time to actual get the place running. You know it took nearly 20 years to get Europe back in full working condition for a 7 year war. Iraq has been mismanaged for 20 something years, and the guys over there are doing a good job getting things back to order.

Standard of living just doesnt go from crap to great in a day. You know now something along the lines of 90% of Iraqis have electricity consistently thats something they didnt have before. Not to mention they can say what they want without being kidnapped have there legs broken and there family members raped and killed.

Im so tired of people complaining about how its still bad there but we barely had an time to actual get the place running. You know it took nearly 20 years to get Europe back in full working condition for a 7 year war. Iraq has been mismanaged for 20 something years, and the guys over there are doing a good job getting things back to order.
The problem isn't that we couldn't have restored the living conditions to what they were pre-war by now--we could have if we had enough soldiers there to provide security. Most of the highest ranking military people told Congress, told the press, told anyone who would sit still long enough that we weren't sending in enough troops to win the peace, to pacify the country. Sure, we could beat the Iraqi army, but that's just the beginning, the first step. We needed at least twice as many troops, and perhaps triple what we sent if we were going to be serious about rebuilding. We tried to do it on the cheap, and we've fucked it up nine ways from Sunday as a result.

The conditions are better then pre war most Iraqis have electricity and water now. Which alot didnt have before just certain cities are proving to be problems because of constant militant uprisings.

The conditions are better then pre war most Iraqis have electricity and water now. Which alot didnt have before just certain cities are proving to be problems because of constant militant uprisings.Prove it, and I don't mean with outdated reports that don't reflect the current situation on the ground. Find a news link, a government report, something that's no more than a month old that makes your point, and I'll reconsider my position. The last reports I saw showed that, especially if you take the Kurdish controlled sections of the country out of the survey, Iraq is not better off as far as living conditions are concerned than it was pre-war. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I have my doubts that you're up to the task. That's not meant as an insult--it's based on knowing how much of a news junkie I am and how important this subject is to me.

I find it a tad ironic that it seems the ppl who are saying that it's ok for Bush to use the Iraqi football (footbal, not soccer) team as political capital are the same who decried the Iranian team using the wrestler to make a political statement against Israel.
Regardless, aren't the Olympics meant to be completely apolitical?
Also you'd think the Bush-campaign would of had the decency to ask these ppl before-hand if they minded being used in his re-election campaign. For no other fact that it might back-fire if they all come out against Bush.

Bush was using the soccer team as an example of the new freedoms in Iraq. There is significant difference between using the success of the Iraqi soccer team at the current Olympics as an example of progress in Iraq and an athlete refusing to compete against an opponent for political reasons.

Also you'd think the Bush-campaign would of had the decency to ask these ppl before-hand if they minded being used in his re-election campaign. For no other fact that it might back-fire if they all come out against Bush.

I agree. All politics aside, they should have been asked if they wanted to be mentioned (even if it was in some sort of ambigious line such as "an olympic team free to play how they want" or whatever was said in the ad etc. etc.) in a political ad supporting a candidate, in an election that may eventually decide the future of their country. You can't just go around using people as examples like that without their permission. You think the Bush campaign would be smarter than that, but no. They weren't.

And as for the conditions in Iraq, yes things will eventually be better without Saddam, but not if the way things are going continue. Here's our situation now: we traded a ruthless dictator for a new intense hot bed of terrorism. Getting rid of Saddam wasn't a bad decision, but doing it the way we did was. We had no plan, went in too hastily, alienated nearly all of our allies, and managed to infuriate millions upon millions upon millions (you get the idea) of people, at the same time creating more and more terrorism. Bush ignored the rest of the world when we went into this.