NationStates Jolt Archive

The Romans, Alexander the Great, the Spanish, Portuguese, Napolean, the British...all of these Empires exerted powerful control at one time, but for various reasons, eventually fell. So when will the empire of the U.S finally fall, and what will be the cause?

What empire you say? The U.S has conquered no lands! Let us stray from the traditional definition of the word "empire" for a while...or perhaps update it to the new global reality.

The U.S has incredible cultural power...exporting it's cultural ideas globally and creating widespread desire for U.S products and a desire to be more LIKE the U.S.

The U.S has economic power...the power to affect governments of soveriegn nations, either through unilateral action (embargoes on Cuba), or through the Bretton Woods institutions (World Bank, IMF), which can impose Structural Adjustment Programs and force governments to open up to foreign businesses, allowing domestic policy to be larger influenced by capital.

The U.S has military power, and has more bases and more troops in other countries than any other nation in the world. Could they take over the world with force? Doubtful, and unecessary. Who wants to be responsible for all that land, when you can just rule economically from afar? However, this military presence (which has been used effectively in Panama, Haiti etc) to influence local politics does have it's strong points.

The fact is, U.S foreign policy affects every area of the globe, and if that isn't a global empire of sorts, I don't know what is.

The question then is what will cause the decline and eventual collapse of this empire? When oh when will it happen? Your thoughts, and please don't just bash "Americans".

Globalization will. Every day technology is making this world a smaller and smaller place. I would tend to think that after a few centuries of such technology, world culture is going to tend to blend and ideas such as countries are going to become obsolete. I mean, even now how much time do alot of us spend playing online video games with kids in Europe and Asia. English is also going to become the "world" language. Other languages will still exist, but english is already spreading and will continue to do so as it is the language of technology.

The decline has begun. *scary music*

Peak oil. Once global oil production reaches its peak and begins to fall, prices rise exponentially as time goes on and business and industry is severely effected.. leading possibly to global resource wars, or internal unrest. Call me pessimistic, but I don't think we'll have done enough by then to reduce our oil dependancy that we can just ride it out until we figure some method of dealing with it.

Peak oil. Once global oil production reaches its peak and begins to fall, prices rise exponentially as time goes on and business and industry is severely effected.. leading possibly to global resource wars, or internal unrest. Call me pessimistic, but I don't think we'll have done enough by then to reduce our oil dependancy that we can just ride it out until we figure some method of dealing with it.
Obviously, you don't know that natural gas is looking very attractive, even to oil companies. In fact, the prediction is that oil will be surpassed by natural gas as a primary fuel source no later than 2025. In fact, I've read that it can be made into synthetic gasoline and diesel.

Obviously, you don't know that natural gas is looking very attractive, even to oil companies. In fact, the prediction is that oil will be surpassed by natural gas as a primary fuel source no later than 2025. In fact, I've read that it can be made into synthetic gasoline and diesel.
So can corn, but it isn't happening :p

I personally think the US will fall not because of a competing ideaology, like the Cold War, but by another country that has mimicked us, like China. The US is poised to be defeated only by someone who is the same as we are, in every aspect.

It'll happen if we continue to ignore God. God has only so much patience and I think He has shown a heck of a lot of patience with the USA. You can't keep ignoring Him and expect to get away with it.

So far as the when, it'll happen when God gets fed up with keeping him locked out of the public square.

So far as the how, God has a history of using evil regimes and evil people to exact his punishment. Think Babylonians and Assyrians wiping out Ancient Israel.

There is a Providence that protects idiots, drunkards, children and the United States of America.
~Otto von Bismarck
:D

The USA, more than any other country, is based on ideals.

Once those ideals are abolished, cast out, and annihilated...then America's cultural influence will truly die.

It's dead set to live on way past the destruction of the country.

But as far as completel annihilation, unlikely in the forseeable future.

Losing superpower status and becoming more like Europe is much more feasable. At least we'll have an interesting history to look back upon as we bitterly bicker with the new upstart super power and claim a moral monopoly. It might be fun really. :p

"America is like one of those old-fashioned six-cylinder truck engines that can be missing two sparkplugs and have a broken flywheel and have a crankshaft that's 5000 millimeters off fitting properly, and two bad ball-bearings, and still runs. We're in that kind of situation. We can have substantial parts of the population committing suicide, and still run and look fairly good."
--Thomas Mcguane

I believe that as other nations grow more economically independent and powerful, the United States will have to compete with other entities--such as the European Union or China--for influence throughout the world. I do not see this so much as a fall as a diminishment; I think the U.S. will stay powerful, but return to its place as one of many great nations.

So can corn, but it isn't happening :p
Right, but natural gas is far more likely. There are currently 16 LNG facilities under construction in Baja, California, and more are in discussion. There's also further investments in natural gas rich countries, like Qatar, Trinidad, and the kingpin, Russia. There's also talk about a natural gas pipeline being constructed from Alaska, down to the Mackenzie River Delta in Yukon (rich in natural gas), and then to Chicago. However, despite being in the energy policy bill, it is stalled in Congress. They have a notoriously short attention span when it comes to energy policy.

It'll happen if we continue to ignore God. God has only so much patience and I think He has shown a heck of a lot of patience with the USA. You can't keep ignoring Him and expect to get away with it.

So far as the when, it'll happen when God gets fed up with keeping him locked out of the public square.

So far as the how, God has a history of using evil regimes and evil people to exact his punishment. Think Babylonians and Assyrians wiping out Ancient Israel.

So, let me get this straight. Faith, by definition, is belief in something that cannot be proven. If church and government were one and the same, then since everyone would be christian, there would be no faith as you can't choose to accept god. And your last argument is obviously wrong, as look at modern history. Several "evil" regimes have fought the US, and pretty much all been annihilated.

Most empires and civilizations have a couple "golden ages", and typically the last and greatest is right before the empire falls. Since we haven't had much of one (except maybe the Clinton adminstration), I don't think the US is ready to fall for a while.

It is my belief that the end of the United States, as a world power at least, will be caused by internal strife. The Roman Empire, for comparison, although eventually destroyed by outsiders, was trully destroyed by itself, corruption, disallusionment among the population, and a weak economy. Although the United States is not nearly as extreme as the Roman Empire in these areas, the warning signs to such future problems are evident.

I'm going to fight the power on this one

why does the American empire have to fall?

we're very good at letting go of things when people no longer support us

look at how we let the philippens go

When due to some really idiotic diplomatic decisions, everyone lets fly with their many many many nuclear bombs.

It's gotta happen sometime.

It'll happen if we continue to ignore God. God has only so much patience and I think He has shown a heck of a lot of patience with the USA. You can't keep ignoring Him and expect to get away with it.

So far as the when, it'll happen when God gets fed up with keeping him locked out of the public square.

So far as the how, God has a history of using evil regimes and evil people to exact his punishment. Think Babylonians and Assyrians wiping out Ancient Israel.

So how does the fact that the United States of America is one of the leading Christian countries in the world play into your theory?

I'd go for a similar thing that happened to the British Empire. Maybe the people lose the will to fight. You could argue that this is already happening. We hear about how the American public is averse to casualties in foreign wars. If America can't project military power effectively, then it's days as an "empire" are gone. Culture alone isn't enough (look at the French, they are trying the culture game desperately).

However, I don't see anything happening to American power anytime soon. The EU and China might catch up, though.

Well, in defense of what Unashamed Christians posted, there's a distinction between compulsory religion and keeping "God locked out of the public square". Most of Western Europe has always had compulsory religion--the state supports certain churches and discriminates against others--yet Christianity is dead in Europe (of course, Islam, which is widely frowned upon, continues to grow in strength).

What has happened to Christianity in this country is not a matter of government policy, but a matter of the shifting in mindset of its citizens, and above all, of its leaders, both public and private. When Harvard University, the centerpiece of American education, was founded, its declared purpose was to train ministers. Now the university, like nearly all American universities, exists for two purposes: to train people how to make money, and to teach its students how to propagate a worldview that is vehemently anti-Christian.

This country was founded as a haven for Christians, a place to escape religious discrimination, and in the minds of those who came here, it offered a chance to escape from the Old World, overrun by sin, and construct a New World, free from the sin of the Old.

As time has passed, we have grown powerful, and wealthy, and attached to the world. Out of the wilderness, we have constructed a land dominated by the pursuit of wealth, beauty, power, youth, and sex, with God falling in importance far behind all of these. I imagine that this trend is irreversible, even though I intend to dedicate my life to fighting it.

Now, whether God will punish the U.S. with destruction for this decline is difficult to say. I think the most obvious answer to how we will be destroyed if we are, however, is with nuclear weapons. Today, Pakistan possesses nuclear weapons, and its dictator, while friendly to the U.S., clings to power with a thin grip, surviving regular assassination attempts. Iran and North Korea continue with their nuclear weapons programs.

As nuclear weapons continue to spread throughout regimes that regard us as the Great Satan (as much of the Muslim world does) or simply as a threat (in the case of North Korea), it may be inevitable that one day, one of them decides it well worth the risk of U.S. retaliation that they sell or distribute these weapons to terrorists. They may aim to simply slip one weapon into the country, and if it meets success, continue trying to slip more in. More likely, they will attempt to slip several weapons in at once, then detonate them simultaneously. After such an event, this country would never be the same--there would be a commercial and political collapse. In the midst of the chaos, I have to wonder what the military, or whoever had continued authority over the U.S. nuclear arsenal, would do. Perhaps calmer heads would prevail, or perhaps they would simply attempt to guess at who was behind the attacks, and further destruction would envelop the world. Between those detonations and the ones within the U.S., a nuclear winter and drifting fallout could potentially generate more death.

Perhaps this scenario is unlikely, but not nearly as unlikely as we'd like it to be. I believe that there are a lot of people who would like to see it happen (or at least the first stage of it), the resources are available and increasingly becoming more available, and as porous as this country's borders and ports remain, it seems that the only way it could be stopped is with pre-emptive strikes against hostile regimes that appear to be developing nuclear weapons. Then again, we already tried that, didn't we? The world will not support us in this endeavor, and the U.S. does not have the resources to unilaterally topple every hostile or potentially hostile regime that continues to develop nuclear weapons.

Now, if this were to happen, most people would not regard it as divine retribution, but the funny thing is, it is the aspects of our culture that most anger God that Islam holds in the greatest contempt and that motivates al-Qaeda and its allies. While the differences between Christians and Muslims are very real, both recognize (or ought to recognize) the immense danger of the idols that we have constructed, and while Muslims regard Christianity as a false religion, they understand that its power is waning while the power of consumerist American culture continues to wax. Thus, while I believe that Islam is a false religion and many of its teachings are wicked, it seems that certain Muslim organizations might serve as excellent agents for our punishment.

Well, in defense of what Unashamed Christians posted, there's a distinction between compulsory religion and keeping "God locked out of the public square". Most of Western Europe has always had compulsory religion--the state supports certain churches and discriminates against others--yet Christianity is dead in Europe (of course, Islam, which is widely frowned upon, continues to grow in strength).

What has happened to Christianity in this country is not a matter of government policy, but a matter of the shifting in mindset of its citizens, and above all, of its leaders, both public and private. When Harvard University, the centerpiece of American education, was founded, its declared purpose was to train ministers. Now the university, like nearly all American universities, exists for two purposes: to train people how to make money, and to teach its students how to propagate a worldview that is vehemently anti-Christian.

This country was founded as a haven for Christians, a place to escape religious discrimination, and in the minds of those who came here, it offered a chance to escape from the Old World, overrun by sin, and construct a New World, free from the sin of the Old.

As time has passed, we have grown powerful, and wealthy, and attached to the world. Out of the wilderness, we have constructed a land dominated by the pursuit of wealth, beauty, power, youth, and sex, with God falling in importance far behind all of these. I imagine that this trend is irreversible, even though I intend to dedicate my life to fighting it.

Vehemently anti-Christian? I disagree. The United States has a strong religious history precisely because of its constitutional separation of church and state. You pointed this out. In countries that don't have that separation (e.g. Western Europe), Christianity declines.

We've had a Great Awakening after a Great Awakening. Why, don't you realize that since the 1980's, church attendance is at record levels per capita? Some have called it a Third Great Awakening, others have merely stated that the U.S. is in a constant state of religious revival and rebirth.

What I object to is what I perceive as this "Leave it to Beaver" warp trip back to the 50's idea that never existed. We're doing pretty well on the religious front in America. To say that society is going to the dogs is popular, but you're really constructing your own windmill to defeat.

I'm going to fight the power on this one

why does the American empire have to fall?

It's inevitable...every single empire that has ever existed has thought they would last forever...and every last one of them fell. It would be foolish hubris to think this will be any different. Upheaval and change are needed to keep human civilizations from stagnating. Some empires lasted hundreds of years... the U.S has only really been a superpower since WWII, and the only real empire around since the beginning of the fall of the Soviet Union in 1990. So it is a relatively new empire, and perhaps has hundreds of years ahead of it (please no!). However, it WILL fall. I just might not be alive to see it :( .

Assuming they continue their current foreign policies, they will become diplomatically isolated eventually and as a result, stagnate into obscurity or collapse outright, fragmenting into component states. Just one possible way.

*yawn*

There is a Providence that protects idiots, drunkards, children and the United States of America.
~Otto von Bismarck
:D

How sad that you should use the words of a great statesman to attempt to prove such a worthless point by taking said quote out of context. You cannot hope to infer that the US of today is any of those things by using such a quote, because the US that he was referring to was over a HUNDRED years ago, and that quote was likely wrong even then, even though it was stereotypical of European attitudes towards the US at the time.

I believe this would be a better one for summing up the US's position:

"That which is imposing here on earth... has always something of the quality of the fallen angel who is beautiful but without peace, great in his conceptions and exertions but without success, proud and lonely."
Otto von Bismarck

Oh, and BTW, natural gas is not the solution that these posters seem to think it is. Although it is a cleaner fuel than oil, its supplies are limited in the same way that oil supplies are limited. It'll buy us some time, but it is not a real alternative to oil.

How and when will the U.S empire fall?

On March 12, 2017, a small band of mole-people will climb up from a hole just outside of Lincoln, Nebraska and take over. Mark your calendars.

On March 12, 2017, a small band of mole-people will climb up from a hole just outside of Lincoln, Nebraska and take over. Mark your calendars.


LMMFAO... yeah but they'll tunnel up during a Cornhuskers football game and get the hell beat out of them. :)

PE:

Natural gas is all well and good, but as far as I know one can't use it to power combustion engine vehicles, which use up the majority of our oil consumption today. Not to mention that new exploration will require hundreds of billions, if not trillions of dollars and that eventually we'll run into the same snag we hit with oil production.

That should be part of the solution. The other is reclassifying SUVs as cars instead of light trucks so they have to meet the same fuel efficiency standards, and promoting the use of gas electric hybrids by individuals and businesses though tax incentives and the like. It's not really all that radical a solution; hell, even Fortune magazine made the same suggestion, along with investments in alternative renewable electric production

PE:

Natural gas is all well and good, but as far as I know one can't use it to power combustion engine vehicles, which use up the majority of our oil consumption today. Not to mention that new exploration will require hundreds of billions, if not trillions of dollars and that eventually we'll run into the same snag we hit with oil production.

That should be part of the solution. The other is reclassifying SUVs as cars instead of light trucks so they have to meet the same fuel efficiency standards, and promoting the use of gas electric hybrids by individuals and businesses though tax incentives and the like. It's not really all that radical a solution; hell, even Fortune magazine made the same suggestion, along with investments in alternative renewable electric production
Natural gas is an excellent source of hydrogen, and hydrogen CAN power cars.

PE:

Natural gas is all well and good, but as far as I know one can't use it to power combustion engine vehicles, which use up the majority of our oil consumption today. Not to mention that new exploration will require hundreds of billions, if not trillions of dollars and that eventually we'll run into the same snag we hit with oil production.

That should be part of the solution. The other is reclassifying SUVs as cars instead of light trucks so they have to meet the same fuel efficiency standards, and promoting the use of gas electric hybrids by individuals and businesses though tax incentives and the like. It's not really all that radical a solution; hell, even Fortune magazine made the same suggestion, along with investments in alternative renewable electric production
Tell it to these guys:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2179rank.html
It's not the ultimate replacement for oil. Rather, it is a bridge. As someone pointed out on hear, hydrogen can be cheaply extracted from it. This is part of how a transition can be accomplished. There are wonderful things at work in the world of alternative energy supplies, with natural gas being just one peice. In the mean time, it is a stopgap.
Also, natural gas isn't just methane, what most people think of it as being. There's also liquid forms, like butane, propane, and hexane. These can be refined into gasoline. The only reason why it isn't is because of dwindling natural gas reserves in the US, pushing prices up.
As I said, this is not a solution. It'll be fine for three or four decades, then we'll run into problems. But that should buy us plenty of time to research something new. There's all sorts of research into alternatives going on at an even faster pace than in the early eighties. In fact, I'm optimistic enough to say that a natural gas economy won't be needed at all by 2040, and oil will be just fun stuff guzzing out of Middle East sand, with little use left to humans.

Well, in defense of what Unashamed Christians posted, there's a distinction between compulsory religion and keeping "God locked out of the public square". Most of Western Europe has always had compulsory religion--the state supports certain churches and discriminates against others--yet Christianity is dead in Europe (of course, Islam, which is widely frowned upon, continues to grow in strength).

Which is one of the many reasons why the Founding Fathers sought to "build a wall" between government and religion. They saw that theocratic governments were anathema to the freedoms they sought to secure for their countrymen.

What has happened to Christianity in this country is not a matter of government policy, but a matter of the shifting in mindset of its citizens, and above all, of its leaders, both public and private. When Harvard University, the centerpiece of American education, was founded, its declared purpose was to train ministers. Now the university, like nearly all American universities, exists for two purposes: to train people how to make money, and to teach its students how to propagate a worldview that is vehemently anti-Christian.

You got proof that the universities are "vehemently anti-Christian"?

This country was founded as a haven for Christians, a place to escape religious discrimination, and in the minds of those who came here, it offered a chance to escape from the Old World, overrun by sin, and construct a New World, free from the sin of the Old.

Again,this is the reasoning behind the separation of church and state that conservatives love to decry.

As nuclear weapons continue to spread throughout regimes that regard us as the Great Satan (as much of the Muslim world does) or simply as a threat (in the case of North Korea), it may be inevitable that one day, one of them decides it well worth the risk of U.S. retaliation that they sell or distribute these weapons to terrorists.

This is likely true. However, I would argue that the governments of these Mid East regimes "merely" regard us as a threat,and couch it publicly in terms of seeing us as the Great Satan to curry favor with the OBLs of the world,who will likely try to destroy them anyway for not being Muslim enough...kinda like certain Christians (Pat Robertson,Jerry Falwell,James Dobson,etc.) who want to destroy our government for not being "Christian" enough.

Now, if this were to happen, most people would not regard it as divine retribution, but the funny thing is, it is the aspects of our culture that most anger God that Islam holds in the greatest contempt and that motivates al-Qaeda and its allies. While the differences between Christians and Muslims are very real, both recognize (or ought to recognize) the immense danger of the idols that we have constructed, and while Muslims regard Christianity as a false religion, they understand that its power is waning while the power of consumerist American culture continues to wax. Thus, while I believe that Islam is a false religion and many of its teachings are wicked, it seems that certain Muslim organizations might serve as excellent agents for our punishment.

I love this. "Those evil Muslims believe my religion is false,therefore it's okay for me to believe that their religion is false." And people wonder why the bloodiest,most brutal wars in history have been perpetrated on the basis of religious hatred. Great job. :mp5: :sniper: :headbang:

What I object to is what I perceive as this "Leave it to Beaver" warp trip back to the 50's idea that never existed. We're doing pretty well on the religious front in America. To say that society is going to the dogs is popular, but you're really constructing your own windmill to defeat.

Interestingly enough,you're not the first to make this argument. There is a very interesting book that I read as part of my history studies (I think the course was 20th century America) that makes the same point. It's called "The Way We Never Were: American Families and the Nostalgia Trap" by Stephanie Coontz.

You know, I was wondering about something about the eventual US decline that may have a sci fi lilt to it. In the distant future, humans should establish space colonies. What if these colonies rebel? Can they engage the US? Would we loose? I'm also wondering if, in the future, nations can be created on the internet (real nations, not just these nations on NS). Call more bored and too imaginative, but I'm just wondering.

Two ways immediately spring to mind:
Americans will get so fat, they won't be able to get out of their chairs to defend themselves. Then the Mexicans (still secretly harbouring resentment about that spat that lost them Texas) will swarm in and push the Yanks out of their chairs, poke them with sticks and roll them round the towns and malls.

Or:

Ar-nuld will annex California, use nukes to sepreate it from the rest of the US and declare War on the girly-men responsible for the rising oil prices. Jesse Ventura will follow with Minnesota and before you know the states will crumble into a mire of bickering in-fighting, not unlike WWE.

There's a good reason all those empires fell, actually. The first being that they had active, actual rivals. Britian had France and Spain for awhile, Spain had Britian before then, Rome had the Barbarians and Persia, and Alexander left his own generals to fight over his spoils. Who is American facing in the world today? The Soviets? Russia can barely keep a bunch of dirty rebels contained in one of their own provinces and the ex-Warsaw Pact countries are falling head over heels to get buddy-buddy with us. China? China doesn't even have the means to take back Taiwan, the PLON is more akin to the US Coast Guard then the US navy and they are just now attempting to modernize their army. Hell, the power of the world's combined fleets barely matches that of a US battlegroup or two, American can call upon nine last I remembered. The only serious opponents to American hegemony would be the UK or the EU, and we're already friends with them.

Those empires also had to contend with territorial gains. Rome, Spain, France, England, all had to contend with restless natives or other nations grabbing for their land. America doesn't have to deal with such problems. The territories we do own like it the way things are, and we have base rights with more then several dozen countries along with a power projection capability unseen in our time. We can enforce our will at will if anywhere we wish, something no empire has ever had the ability to before.

No, the downfall of America will not come in our lifetime, or the lifetime of our children. Beyond that it's hard to tell, fifty years is a long time on the political scale (heck it only took a few decades for Germany to go from broke war victim to potential European empire) but as long as things stay the way they are, I can't think of anything better then an American hegemony to impose a little order in this world.

I predict that the U.S. will fall in an accident, when it forgets, once again, to tie its shoes and trips while running.

There's a good reason all those empires fell, actually. The first being that they had active, actual rivals. Britian had France and Spain for awhile, Spain had Britian before then, Rome had the Barbarians and Persia, and Alexander left his own generals to fight over his spoils. Who is American facing in the world today? The Soviets? Russia can barely keep a bunch of dirty rebels contained in one of their own provinces and the ex-Warsaw Pact countries are falling head over heels to get buddy-buddy with us. China? China doesn't even have the means to take back Taiwan, the PLON is more akin to the US Coast Guard then the US navy and they are just now attempting to modernize their army. Hell, the power of the world's combined fleets barely matches that of a US battlegroup or two, American can call upon nine last I remembered. The only serious opponents to American hegemony would be the UK or the EU, and we're already friends with them.

Those empires also had to contend with territorial gains. Rome, Spain, France, England, all had to contend with restless natives or other nations grabbing for their land. America doesn't have to deal with such problems. The territories we do own like it the way things are, and we have base rights with more then several dozen countries along with a power projection capability unseen in our time. We can enforce our will at will if anywhere we wish, something no empire has ever had the ability to before.

No, the downfall of America will not come in our lifetime, or the lifetime of our children. Beyond that it's hard to tell, fifty years is a long time on the political scale (heck it only took a few decades for Germany to go from broke war victim to potential European empire) but as long as things stay the way they are, I can't think of anything better then an American hegemony to impose a little order in this world.
I'm thinking it might happen in the future should global warming hasten its pace. Large swaths of densely populated areas will become deserts in a couple hundred years, and may try to forcefully migrate to the US. They probably will overwhelm us.

It'll happen if we continue to ignore God. God has only so much patience and I think He has shown a heck of a lot of patience with the USA. You can't keep ignoring Him and expect to get away with it.

So far as the when, it'll happen when God gets fed up with keeping him locked out of the public square.

So far as the how, God has a history of using evil regimes and evil people to exact his punishment. Think Babylonians and Assyrians wiping out Ancient Israel.
You don't like it? Move to a theocracy. I noticed all your examples of God "using evil regimes" happened thousands of years ago and are not historically certain. Why is your God, if he exists at all, so non-interventionist nowdays?

You don't like it? Move to a theocracy. I noticed all your examples of God "using evil regimes" happened thousands of years ago and are not historically certain. Why is your God, if he exists at all, so non-interventionist nowdays?
Well some Christians say that He does, just not as overtly. For example, the so-called "Perfect Storm" in 1992 did, among other things, flatten coastal Kennibunkport, ME, and destroyed George H.W. Bush's summer retreat. This was about when the Oslo Treaty entered its final stages of negotiation.

The natural gas pipeline from Alaska to the states is slow to get off the ground because it runs right through the Mackenzie river valley in Canada. That's not the problem, even though the Canadian government is extremly slow in getting action passed, the problem is the native reserve that they have to either go around or go through. And the mighty American empire will fall, either before or immeadiatly preceding their change in boarders with Canada. The Americans are running out of resources - power, (look at California) and fresh water, and look to their northern neighbours with an overabundance of those resources. However, being a peaceful and slightly spineless nation, Canada is actually holding firm on this one due to softwood lumber and cow boarder closures. Thus, to get their precious resources, Americans will complete the dream that started so long ago. Manifest destiny.

The natural gas pipeline from Alaska to the states is slow to get off the ground because it runs right through the Mackenzie river valley in Canada. That's not the problem, even though the Canadian government is extremly slow in getting action passed, the problem is the native reserve that they have to either go around or go through. And the mighty American empire will fall, either before or immeadiatly preceding their change in boarders with Canada. The Americans are running out of resources - power, (look at California) and fresh water, and look to their northern neighbours with an overabundance of those resources. However, being a peaceful and slightly spineless nation, Canada is actually holding firm on this one due to softwood lumber and cow boarder closures. Thus, to get their precious resources, Americans will complete the dream that started so long ago. Manifest destiny.
I'm sorry, but I fail to see how fresh water is failing. The west is going through a drought that occurs from time to time, not a complete climate change. And there's plenty left in the rivers of the North west, and the Great Lakes.

There's a good reason all those empires fell, actually. The first being that they had active, actual rivals.

Let's begin

Britian had France and Spain for awhile

By the time the British Empire fell all it's major enemies had been destroyed (Somewhat like the US, no major rivals at the moment) or allied to them (France). Spain was barely even a European power after the 18th Century. It's cheif rival (Germany), had sprung up from almost no where in a short time span on both occasions they became strong, so just becuase you don't have rivals now means nothing.

Spain had Britian before then

Britain really wasn't what brought Spain down, their horrid management of their economy is what did them in, so in this case, their rival really doesn't even matter.

Rome had the Barbarians and Persia

Which if you will take note, Rome dismissed as a rival in the former, and the latter had already been destroyed far before Rome fell.

and Alexander left his own generals to fight over his spoils

Political infighting.... yes

Who is American facing in the world today?

Let's see

The Soviets?

...Don't exist anymore, it's the Russian Federation that makes up most of their former land.

Russia can barely keep a bunch of dirty rebels contained in one of their own provinces and the ex-Warsaw Pact countries are falling head over heels to get buddy-buddy with us.

The US couldn't keep a couple of middle eastern terrorists from hitting them, why should Russia be able to?

China? China doesn't even have the means to take back Taiwan

Yet.

the PLON is more akin to the US Coast Guard then the US navy

For the moment

and they are just now attempting to modernize their army.

That's rather foreboding

Hell, the power of the world's combined fleets barely matches that of a US battlegroup or two

Brittania Rules the Waves, no?

American can call upon nine last I remembered.

12 actually, but some are undergoing maintenance. They are the Kitty Hawk, John F. Kennedy, Enterprise, Nimitz, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Carl Vinson, Theodore Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, George Washington, John C. Stennis, Harry S. Truman, and the Ronald Reagan.

The only serious opponents to American hegemony would be the UK or the EU, and we're already friends with them.

Which could change, and even if it doesn't, that's only using present day statistics.

Those empires also had to contend with territorial gains. Rome, Spain, France, England, all had to contend with restless natives or other nations grabbing for their land. America doesn't have to deal with such problems.

That would explain our problems in Najaf......

The territories we do own like it the way things are, and we have base rights with more then several dozen countries along with a power projection capability unseen in our time.

It doesn't really help when your stretched to the breaking point.

We can enforce our will at will if anywhere we wish, something no empire has ever had the ability to before.

Really, can we? Last I heard, the world is already quite md at us for what we've done already.

No, the downfall of America will not come in our lifetime, or the lifetime of our children. Beyond that it's hard to tell, fifty years is a long time on the political scale (heck it only took a few decades for Germany to go from broke war victim to potential European empire)

Actually it only took Germany a decade to go from a bunch of independent states to a unified powerhouse, and two decades to recover from WWI and start a Second Great Circus, that leaves plenty of time for something to happen in our lifetimes. The British Empire went from the height of it's power (1914 for economic and political purposes, 1920 for size) to dissolution (post-WWII).

but as long as things stay the way they are

That is precisely the problem with your theory, change is constant.

By the time the British Empire fell all it's major enemies had been destroyed (Somewhat like the US, no major rivals at the moment) or allied to them (France). Spain was barely even a European power after the 18th Century. It's cheif rival (Germany), had sprung up from almost no where in a short time span on both occasions they became strong, so just becuase you don't have rivals now means nothing.

I'd have to disagree with you on that one. The two World Wars taxed the British Empire. In both wars, the enemy was Germany, and in both wars, Russia and the US gained power, while Britain gain none. WWI cost it a whole generation of young men. WWII had slightly lighter casualties for Britain, but it was certainly no easy battle, either, and left the British Empire exhausted. It is my belief that the British Empire fell because they did not have the resources to maintain their empire, having spent them all defeatiing Germany both times.

I'd have to disagree with you on that one. The two World Wars taxed the British Empire. In both wars, the enemy was Germany, and in both wars, Russia and the US gained power, while Britain gain none. WWI cost it a whole generation of young men. WWII had slightly lighter casualties for Britain, but it was certainly no easy battle, either, and left the British Empire exhausted. It is my belief that the British Empire fell because they did not have the resources to maintain their empire, having spent them all defeatiing Germany both times.

Well, I never mentioned how the British Empire fell in my entire post, but in the case you wish to know my opinion, it's the same as yours. The First World War started troubles for the Empire, the Empire had suffered massive casualties (1,000,000), and the economy had fallen behind the United States, and the country had massive war debts, but it was at it's largest in size. The Great War also caused a shift of power, Britain had lost some of it's pre-war political power with the dollar becoming more preeminent than the pound.

The Great War also led toa rise in nationalism among the people's of the Empire, who had stood by Britain in her time of need, and felt they deserved greater autonomy for it, it would finally come after the Second Great War.

The Second World War did the Empire in, since Britian liquidated almost every single asset it had to keep the fight going, so at the end of the war, not only was the country exhausted from war (2 Great Wars, with 1 million and 350,000 casualties respectively), it had no money to keep the Empire together with.

Well, I never mentioned how the British Empire fell in my entire post, but in the case you wish to know my opinion, it's the same as yours. The First World War started troubles for the Empire, the Empire had suffered massive casualties (1,000,000), and the economy had fallen behind the United States, and the country had massive war debts, but it was at it's largest in size. The Great War also caused a shift of power, Britain had lost some of it's pre-war political power with the dollar becoming more preeminent than the pound.

The Great War also led toa rise in nationalism among the people's of the Empire, who had stood by Britain in her time of need, and felt they deserved greater autonomy for it, it would finally come after the Second Great War.

The Second World War did the Empire in, since Britian liquidated almost every single asset it had to keep the fight going, so at the end of the war, not only was the country exhausted from war (2 Great Wars, with 1 million and 350,000 casualties respectively), it had no money to keep the Empire together with.
Oh, okay. Saying that the British Empire collapsed without rivals made me think that, one day, the British Empire magically imploded all by itself.

The United States will start a civil war next year which leads into a World War III with Russia bombing several cities with nukes in the year 2015. 3 billion dead people later, the US is no longer a super power.

Rofl..john titor..

Oh, okay. Saying that the British Empire collapsed without rivals made me think that, one day, the British Empire magically imploded all by itself.

Hehe, ok, I see what you were questioning now, I was a bit confused at first. And is New Anthrus a puppet of yours?

Three points to make out...
First, that end of oil is here and we haven't done anything about it. So ourselves and western europe, China, Japan, etc are in big trouble. (Remember oil makes more than just gasoline. Try paint, lubricants, plastics, medicines...most everything includes the products of oil processing.)

Second, That Japan, and the EU have negative growth rates...they will have a lower population in twenty five years then they do now. Of all the first world countries, only the U.S. has a positive growth rate (and only because of imigration.

Third, the truth is that because people don't want more taxes or to give up social security benifits the government is going to have to shut down the U.S. military. When the democratic party comes to power again, they will likely shrink the U.S. Armed forces to a buget of only fifty to sixty million. We likely won't even be able to mount an armored brigade in the feild.

Social Security Debt will force the U.S. to have no military, forcing the EU into being dominant. However, since the E.U. will likely not involve itself outside of europe (since they tend to ignore all other problems) you can see how China will become the new Empire....communism will rule most of the globe for the next fifty years. With the Chinesse Politburo ruling the world like the Emperor's court.

I don't know what will bring down the US empire but I bet there is a good screenplay somewhere in all these posts.........

anybody fancy a pint...it is the weekend after all

Third, the truth is that because people don't want more taxes or to give up social security benifits the government is going to have to shut down the U.S. military. When the democratic party comes to power again, they will likely shrink the U.S. Armed forces to a buget of only fifty to sixty million. We likely won't even be able to mount an armored brigade in the feild.

Ok, I know Clinton scaled back the military a bit, but come on, let's be just a tad realistic, fifty to sixty million? Just a tad bit of embellishment, no?

Hehe, ok, I see what you were questioning now, I was a bit confused at first. And is New Anthrus a puppet of yours?
Yes. You weren't around for my original nation, Anthrus, were you?

Yes. You weren't around for my original nation, Anthrus, were you?

I vaguely remember an Anthrus, I was around for about July '03 to January '04, then on a little break until May. I just wasn't aware you were Anthrus.

I don't think I agree with the original premise. I don't think America is an empire. I think it is an oligarchy of empires. Some of these empires are indeed faling as I type. Some are sparing to new heights. And some just keep on going as they always have.

I saw a news atricle the other day in which the head of Ford basically blasted the United States because he could not create a hybred car with US products. The US doesn't make batteries that he needs. The US doesn't make regenaterive brakes that his model requires. The list goes on and on. A decade or so ago we used to see lots of comments on how Japan lacked imagination. How they were great technically but not in terms of new innovative products. Now we can't even find anyone in the U.S. who can produce even moderately cutting edge technologies in the autmobile sector. This American Empire is falling, and falling fast.

And yet the U.S. (specifically Microsoft) still leads the world in PC technology. The leading internet search engine company recently went public and it is U.S. based.

And I don't think the McDonalds empire is going to decline soon. The sun never sets on that empire.

The U.S. presence is in decline, but for the most part, it's amazing that it has lasted this long. The U.S. presence is still based on the "Cold War" structure that no longer exists (with a few exceptions like North Korea) and is no longer necessary. The decline of this presence is obfuscated with the current war on terror, but is still very seperate from it.

I vaguely remember an Anthrus, I was around for about July '03 to January '04, then on a little break until May. I just wasn't aware you were Anthrus.
Yeah, you were around awhile. You weren't around for the puppet that got me deleted, Brobrada. I did some naughty things with it, but hey, it was fun. Primarily, I said that the US was dangerous to the world, and was the last obstacle to utopia. Even worse, I said, all Americans were degenerates. Therefore, they need to be nuked. Not that I believed any of it, of course, but it was fun to get a rise out of people :).

I'd say between 2020 and 2050. How? I don't know.

Let's begin
Oh joy :D

By the time the British Empire fell all it's major enemies had been destroyed (Somewhat like the US, no major rivals at the moment) or allied to them (France). Spain was barely even a European power after the 18th Century. It's cheif rival (Germany), had sprung up from almost no where in a short time span on both occasions they became strong, so just becuase you don't have rivals now means nothing.
Ah, but you forget several important measures. One, the end of the British Empire came after the end of WWII as the fighting, both against the Axis powers and nationalistic movements, taxed them so much they threw up their hands and said "To hell with it." All the competition before hand, from Spain to France to America (yes, good ol' US of A, read up on the naval arms race of the 1920s) to Germany had put the strain on the Empire, along with voices within its own people, and led to the UK from being a global kingdom to the English isles and a few specks of land.

Britain really wasn't what brought Spain down, their horrid management of their economy is what did them in, so in this case, their rival really doesn't even matter.
Please. There was vivid economic rivalry between Spain and England as the Brits tried to muscle in on the trans-Atlantic trade, and had the Spanish Armada not been defeated there wouldn't have been a British Empire.

Which if you will take note, Rome dismissed as a rival in the former, and the latter had already been destroyed far before Rome fell.
Hardly, Rome took the barbarian threat seriously, and Persia still remained a strong power in the ME, enough to challenge the Roman legions.

The US couldn't keep a couple of middle eastern terrorists from hitting them, why should Russia be able to?
A single terrorist attack =/= civil insurrection/warfare.

Yet.
For the moment
That's rather foreboding
When the Chinese Navy becomes as powerful as today's US Navy, the USN will still be a good 20-30 years ahead. They've just now realized that the old Soviet model of massed tank armies belong in the 1970s.

12 actually, but some are undergoing maintenance. They are the Kitty Hawk, John F. Kennedy, Enterprise, Nimitz, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Carl Vinson, Theodore Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, George Washington, John C. Stennis, Harry S. Truman, and the Ronald Reagan.
That's actual carriers, and they are put under rotation so that 1/3 iirc is in for repairs and resupply.

Which could change, and even if it doesn't, that's only using present day statistics.
The Europeans would have to give up their way of life to come close to matching the American military, something socialist Europe can't do.

That would explain our problems in Najaf......
Because Najaf is an American colony....

It doesn't really help when your stretched to the breaking point.
That America can accomplish its tasks at all speaks to its power where another nation would have neither the forces nor fortitude to achieve the same.

Really, can we? Last I heard, the world is already quite md at us for what we've done already.
And what have they done? Angry words and crude humor are not the same as threatening economic sanctions or checking military might. All the UN is good for is to raise a ruckus and help starving children.

Actually it only took Germany a decade to go from a bunch of independent states to a unified powerhouse, and two decades to recover from WWI and start a Second Great Circus, that leaves plenty of time for something to happen in our lifetimes. The British Empire went from the height of it's power (1914 for economic and political purposes, 1920 for size) to dissolution (post-WWII).
Pre-WWI Germany was no where close to the power of the British Empire, and neither was WWII-era. The RN took care of that, and so did the soviets. (The height of the British Empire came much sooner then the 1910s-20s)

That is precisely the problem with your theory, change is constant.
The more things change, the more things stay the same. As long as America keeps up with its constant technological advances, the US military will still maintain a decisive edge over possible contenders for the next fifty years.

That is precisely the problem with your theory, change is constant.[/QUOTE]

I believe that as other nations grow more economically independent and powerful, the United States will have to compete with other entities--such as the European Union or China--for influence throughout the world. I do not see this so much as a fall as a diminishment; I think the U.S. will stay powerful, but return to its place as one of many great nations.

This is exactly what the rise and decline of empires is all about. A nations decline usually has nothing to do with an inherent weakening, it involves relativity. Britain today is more powerful than at any time in its history. Still able to project its military might anywhere in the world, and God forbid, able to demolish half the worlds cities with nuclear weapons. But the point is that the US (and formerly, the Soviet Union) is so much more powerful. The economic, military and political strength of the US is unlikely to lessen, merely fade in comparison to others. And, like Britain, despite its relative decline it will probably always be able to have influence and a part in world affairs. I have, several times, noted that the US is in a similar situation as Britain was 100 years ago: At the peak of its military dominance, an economy beginning to suffer at the hands of others, more and more reliance on foreign goods and services, starting to withdraw manpower from far-flung lands, a unit of currency moving from top dog to just another competitor. Add to this a stirring of the realisation of its 'mortality' thus producing ever more bullying and blustering around the globe. Just as most Brits then denounced all these cancerous symptoms as 'poppycock' and 'passing phases', Americans now rely on a belief in the inevitability of enduring US world dominace. 100 years ago (there are hundreds of thousands of people well over 100 years old, it ain't so long), even the idea of Pax Britannica and Rule Britannia being completely gone within 50 years seemed impossible to most of the citizens of the world. I see the comparison I continue to make between the current US and the old British Empire growing stronger as time passes and for what it's worth, I believe given Chinas resurgance, Indias burgoning economy and of course, the widening EU (maybe including Russia in the not too distant future), America will decline relatively well within 50 years.

Oh joy :D


Ah, but you forget several important measures. One, the end of the British Empire came after the end of WWII as the fighting, both against the Axis powers and nationalistic movements, taxed them so much they threw up their hands and said "To hell with it." All the competition before hand, from Spain to France to America (yes, good ol' US of A, read up on the naval arms race of the 1920s) to Germany had put the strain on the Empire, along with voices within its own people, and led to the UK from being a global kingdom to the English isles and a few specks of land.

The Naval Arms Race of the 1920's came to an end with the Washington Treaty, before it could ever gear up, we didn't tax them with that. They hadn't had much competition from France or Spain since the Napoleonic times, and enjoyed the "Splendid Isolation" of the Victorian Age, only brought out of it by Germany.


Please. There was vivid economic rivalry between Spain and England as the Brits tried to muscle in on the trans-Atlantic trade, and had the Spanish Armada not been defeated there wouldn't have been a British Empire.

Yes, there was economic rivalry, but England did not defeat Spain, Spain did that all by itself, massive inflation caused by thier huge influx of gold and silver, plus the always tenous setup they had with bankers. As for the Armada, that only explains how the British Empire was not defeated, it has nothing to do with Spain falling, aside from being a rather expensive and useless move.


Hardly, Rome took the barbarian threat seriously, and Persia still remained a strong power in the ME, enough to challenge the Roman legions.

Rome took the barbarian threat seriously only in the dying stages of it's life, and especially after Adrianople, but not much before then. As for Persia, they could not push the Romans back, the Romans just weren't interested in expanding into Persia, hardly a threat.


A single terrorist attack =/= civil insurrection/warfare.

Probably becuase the area the are fighting in is part of the Russian Federation, if it was Florida doing the same thing, we would have the exact same problems.


When the Chinese Navy becomes as powerful as today's US Navy, the USN will still be a good 20-30 years ahead. They've just now realized that the old Soviet model of massed tank armies belong in the 1970s.

Since it's in the future, we don't know, the USN has made mistakes before, and no one stays dominant forever.


That's actual carriers, and they are put under rotation so that 1/3 iirc is in for repairs and resupply.

Yes, you are correct


The Europeans would have to give up their way of life to come close to matching the American military, something socialist Europe can't do.

Like if a nation was living in peaceful bliss not caring about the world's trouble? Surely they could never build a military to challenge the All-Powerful Continent, since they are too busy dancing to Negro Music and catering to business to give up their way of life to fight a war.

Because Najaf is an American colony....

It's under American Occupation, and there seem to be a lot of American troops engaged in this battle.

That America can accomplish its tasks at all speaks to its power where another nation would have neither the forces nor fortitude to achieve the same.

Assuming a rival nation springs up in the next decade and we are still stretched as thin, we don't really have any ability to challenge them in good time.


And what have they done? Angry words and crude humor are not the same as threatening economic sanctions or checking military might. All the UN is good for is to raise a ruckus and help starving children.

Any economic sanctions the US would put against Europe or the world will hurt the US too, and considering how we won't even sign a treaty that will only hurt our economy by aout 2%, do you really think the US will do that?


Pre-WWI Germany was no where close to the power of the British Empire, and neither was WWII-era. The RN took care of that, and so did the soviets. (The height of the British Empire came much sooner then the 1910s-20s)

The Hieght of the British Empire was the Edwardian Era, directly after the Victorian Age of industrialization and Expansion, the stabilization of the Empire, and before the horrors of the Great War. Pre-WWI Germany was close to the power of the British Empire, just not stronger, and was certainly the strongest land army in the world, and strongest Continental power. 1939 Germany was certainly far stronger than 1939 Britain, aside from the RN (Which came close to losing the Battle of the Atlantic).

The more things change, the more things stay the same. As long as America keeps up with its constant technological advances, the US military will still maintain a decisive edge over possible contenders for the next fifty years.

I don't think that quote quite fits what you are describing, since it means something will change, but still be the same as before, with a new face (Like if China rose to superpower status, but would still do the same things the US now does). In theory, as long as any nation continues with technological advances, they will maintain the edge, the problem is, someone else, if by nothing other than sheer luck, is going to eventually make a bigger one, had Rome kept it's Legions as professional as those Ceasar had, and kept up with changing tactics, it might have survived, had Britain not been ravaged by two world wars, and changing mindsets concerning Imperialism, the Empire might still be alive today. Everything is bound to change, and years from now, I'm sure someone will be able to turn around and say "If only America had done....", no country can ever maintain sole power presence, it will eventually overextend itself by stepping over it's bounds, or simply be eclipsed by another nation that has better access to natural resources, more room for industry, less problems, etc.

I personally think the US will fall not because of a competing ideaology, like the Cold War, but by another country that has mimicked us, like China. The US is poised to be defeated only by someone who is the same as we are, in every aspect.


China will be our downfall but not because they are like us in every aspect, on the contrary, they take advantage of what works for us when it will work for them. Communism served its purpose for the chinese and capitalism will play its roll next. The chinese are patient and because of that they have been able to overtake us.

--

Military might will not save the US, on the contrary, it hastens our fall. The only practical outcome of action by our military is to antagonize potential and increasingly much-needed allies. America uses its military to make enemies because we are governed by the war industry. China does not do this, and the world will turn to china when its economy eclipses that of the US.

I still say America's not an empire but I agree with the mole men taking over the US idea. That was the most reasonable idea I've seen yet. Oh, and before everyone starts freaking out about the whole "oil is going away" thing, fusion power is closer than you may think. When that type of power takes over the role of fossil fuels, the remaining fossil fuels will be able to go toward other things such as the paints, lubricants, etc. People said something about fusion not being a viable powersource because of heat. That shouldn't be a problem for too long because there are people pretty close to solving that little annoyance. It's true, there's a guy a few blocks away from me working on it in his garage...Sounds lame but it's true. Maybe it sounds so lame that you'll have no choice but to believe me.

I say in um 48 hrs because obviously … along with everyone on here I can predict the future… as well as know everything about the present

I still say America's not an empire but I agree with the mole men taking over the US idea. That was the most reasonable idea I've seen yet. Oh, and before everyone starts freaking out about the whole "oil is going away" thing, fusion power is closer than you may think. When that type of power takes over the role of fossil fuels, the remaining fossil fuels will be able to go toward other things such as the paints, lubricants, etc. People said something about fusion not being a viable powersource because of heat. That shouldn't be a problem for too long because there are people pretty close to solving that little annoyance. It's true, there's a guy a few blocks away from me working on it in his garage...Sounds lame but it's true. Maybe it sounds so lame that you'll have no choice but to believe me.

Yeah, fusion power will replace fossil fuel power plants. But would you want a nuclear reactor running your car?

Obviously, you don't know that natural gas is looking very attractive, even to oil companies. In fact, the prediction is that oil will be surpassed by natural gas as a primary fuel source no later than 2025. In fact, I've read that it can be made into synthetic gasoline and diesel.
But in your mind the US Empire will probably last for another thousand years... right?

Who can forget the famous 'thousand year reich' :D

gamblers 3 laws of the universe
1. you can't win.
2. you can't break even.
3. the house always wins.
What i'm describing there my friends is entropy. the well established fact that everything wears down, nations fall, cars break, planetary cores cool, the sun over our very heads will eventually dim and burn out to nothingness. The US will fall, and if not in name, then in spirit, it will be un-recognizable within a century, it might be a dream land, or a nightmare for some of you, but it will be a radical new place by this time next century.

as to this oil dealy,you're both wrong, we've got acres and acres of oil just lieing about the place, and we're making more all the time. TCP, my friends, it's a bright future, and it's in your mind that it will be found, not in the dirt. http://www.changingworldtech.com/techfr.htm

Let's hope the US doesn't fall till it's completed it's purpose. All empires have a purpose. The Greeks brough rationalism and representataive government, Alexander brought multiculturalism, Rome brought law and expanded democracy, etc.

Let's hope the US doesn't fall till it's completed it's purpose. All empires have a purpose. The Greeks brough rationalism and representataive government, Alexander brought multiculturalism, Rome brought law and expanded democracy, etc.

What 'purpose' does America serve apart from enforcing Hegemony around the World to serve its own interests?

Its contributed Coca-Cola and McDonalds to the World. Consumer Culture basically, and thats not exactly a good thing.

Hey, you never know. It could end up wiping out totalitarianism around the world. That wouldn't be such a bad legacy to leave behind, would it?

call me crazy but I believe it will and I believe it will be in the biblical "end times" fortold in book of revelations where it says " a great nation will fall" that would very possibly be USA

The US will fall eventually, not to any single forign power, but to our own Pride. Everything US is superior, cars, women, culture. This will be our downfall, because in our belief of our own superiority we allow ourselves to be blinded to the truth of the world. Take for instance the Terrorists who attack our nation. These men are misguided and cruel, but one point cannot be ignored, they are our own creation.
What created these misguided lunatics? It may be from several different factors. One is the embargos which our country places on nations such as Iraq. Every time a child died of a staff, or the flu, it was due in part to the embargoes which our country had placed on theirs, banning the import of medical supplys. The brothers and sisters and mothers and fathers of these people are angered, and their anger is not only towards their government, but to the forign power which refused to allow the meds for their child into the country.
Another cause for anger among other nations, and many americans, is the use of Religion as a tool for politicians. In this case one may look at Bush JR. He states that he is a religious man following the word of god. Indeed, he has stated that he is not in favor of abortion for this very reason. And yet, he feels the need to invade a country and create a war in which several thousand have died. This wishy washy nature of our politicians is another cause for a dislike of our nation.
Back to the question of whether or not the US will fall it seems very unlikely that it will fall, so much as be absorbed into another culture. Just as the Goddess worshiped by pagans became the Virgin Mary, and the horned god of fertility became satan, the united states will become something else, different, yet with some speck of american ideals still thrown in.

Problem with falling, is, when Romans were falling, they couldn't do squat. If US will fall, we got a few thousand nukes to make the world regret it.

Problem with falling, is, when Romans were falling, they couldn't do squat. If US will fall, we got a few thousand nukes to make the world regret it.

that and if our economy falls much suffering globally I gurantee will take place.

So can corn, but it isn't happening :p

Corn oil is extremelly expensive to purify, into a usable oil that could be used in a car.

The Romans, Alexander the Great, the Spanish, Portuguese, Napolean, the British...all of these Empires exerted powerful control at one time, but for various reasons, eventually fell. So when will the empire of the U.S finally fall, and what will be the cause?

What empire you say? The U.S has conquered no lands! Let us stray from the traditional definition of the word "empire" for a while...or perhaps update it to the new global reality.

The U.S has incredible cultural power...exporting it's cultural ideas globally and creating widespread desire for U.S products and a desire to be more LIKE the U.S.

The U.S has economic power...the power to affect governments of soveriegn nations, either through unilateral action (embargoes on Cuba), or through the Bretton Woods institutions (World Bank, IMF), which can impose Structural Adjustment Programs and force governments to open up to foreign businesses, allowing domestic policy to be larger influenced by capital.

The U.S has military power, and has more bases and more troops in other countries than any other nation in the world. Could they take over the world with force? Doubtful, and unecessary. Who wants to be responsible for all that land, when you can just rule economically from afar? However, this military presence (which has been used effectively in Panama, Haiti etc) to influence local politics does have it's strong points.

The fact is, U.S foreign policy affects every area of the globe, and if that isn't a global empire of sorts, I don't know what is.

The question then is what will cause the decline and eventual collapse of this empire? When oh when will it happen? Your thoughts, and please don't just bash "Americans".


I'd say when the un gets some actual power. Like in halo, when the world becomes on big nation and the UN runs everything.

The Europeans would have to give up their way of life to come close to matching the American military, something socialist Europe can't do.

Socialist Europe? Re-calibrate your political compass. There are countries in Europe that have armies larger than that of the USA, per capita. Furthermore, many of them have conscription. I could argue that the military is more intimately a part of life in these nations.

Most empires and civilizations have a couple "golden ages", and typically the last and greatest is right before the empire falls. Since we haven't had much of one (except maybe the Clinton adminstration), I don't think the US is ready to fall for a while.


Actually you may not realize it but America is in a golden age right now. A golden age is, by definition, a period in the history of a nation/state/city in which there are many great achivements in literature, science, and art.