NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.donaldsensing.com/2004/08/war-party.html

Harkin Lied About Vietnam War Record

Sen. Tom Harkin, who called Vice President Dick Cheney a "coward" on Tuesday for not serving in Vietnam, has been exposed for lying about his own Vietnam service - or, rather, lack thereof.

"Senator Harkin is a proven fabricator when it comes to his own Vietnam-era record," reports the Wall Street Journal in Thursday editions.

Revisiting its own 1979 report on the tart-tongued Iowa Democrat, the Journal notes:
"In 1979, Mr. Harkin, then a congressman, participated in a round-table discussion arranged by the Congressional Vietnam Veterans' Caucus. 'I spent five years as a Navy pilot, starting in November of 1962,' Mr. Harkin said at that meeting, in words that were later quoted in a book, Changing of the Guard, by Washington Post political writer David Broder. 'One year was in Vietnam. I was flying F-4s and F-8s on combat air patrols and photo-reconnaissance support missions. I did no bombing.'"

The Journal continues:

"That clearly is not an accurate picture of his Navy service. ... Mr. Harkin's Navy record shows his only decoration is the National Defense Service Medal, awarded to everyone on active service during those years. He did not receive either the Vietnam Service medal or the Vietnam Campaign medal, the decorations given to everyone who served in the Southeast Asia theater."

"It turned out Mr. Harkin had not seen combat and was stationed in Japan."

In fact, rather than doing his part to beat back global Communism, Harkin was actually an aider and abettor to Moscow's cause.

Unnoted in today's Journal report: In 1986 Harkin famously traveled to Managua, Nicaragua, to assure Fidel Castro's proxy Daniel Ortega that Senate Democrats were working overtime to thwart President Reagan's efforts to bring Democracy to the region.

With him on the mission - fellow peacenik Sen. John Kerry.

What is it with Democrats lying about Viet Nam? Harkin claimed he took on Migs in Viet Nam. What a joke that party is.




"How did a political party that last held the White House with a man who admitted he dodged the draft and said he loathed the military, who demonstrated against his own country while living overseas, come to be the party that now trumpets more militarism than any other?"\

HAHAHA

Interesting.

Yeah, and Kerry Fled

Yeah, and Kerry Fled

I know. Yet, everyone continues to insist he's a "war hero." If Kerry's a war hero, than Hitler is a pro-Semite. :rolleyes:

I know. Yet, everyone continues to insist he's a "war hero." If Kerry's a war hero, than Hitler is a pro-Semite. :rolleyes:
The guy ran at the first hint of combat, throwing of the man he "saved" in the process.

Kerry Fled

Kerry sucks

Agreed?

Kerry sucks

Agreed?
Agreed!

Kerry Fled

*Ladies and Gentlemen, I present what is known as an echo chamber. This thread consists of individuals reinforcing their own ideas by agreeing with each other for no reason other than they share some singular, limited point of view on a specific subject. It serves no intellectual purpose other than to reinforce their own already strongly held ideas and to provide the illusion that the rest of the world agrees with them, when in most cases, no one else actually gives a shit. It can be found among people of all political persuasions, although this particular sample happens to be of the Kerry-hater variety, known for their belligerence and their unwillingness to consider even the possibility that someone who hates Kerry might be lacking in credibility.*

*Ladies and Gentlemen, I present what is known as an echo chamber. This thread consists of individuals reinforcing their own ideas by agreeing with each other for no reason other than they share some singular, limited point of view on a specific subject. It serves no intellectual purpose other than to reinforce their own already strongly held ideas and to provide the illusion that the rest of the world agrees with them, when in most cases, no one else actually gives a shit. It can be found among people of all political persuasions, although this particular sample happens to be of the Kerry-hater variety, known for their belligerence and their unwillingness to consider even the possibility that someone who hates Kerry might be lacking in credibility.*Wow, are you pathetic, stalking me through threads. You are coming unraveled, go take your medicine.

Kerry Fled

Incertonia, you do have a good point. But that doesn't change the fact that

Kerry sucks

:p

Wow, are you pathetic, stalking me through threads. You are coming unraveled, go take your medicine.

Kerry Fled
Me? Unraveled? I'm not the one who just suggested that John Edwards singlehandedly destroyed the US healthcare system like you did on the other thread.

And for the record, as this is an open forum, if you post a thread, you ought to expect replies from people who disagree with you. If you can't take it, then maybe you ought to reconsider what you post. Or you could always put me on your ignore list. But regardless:

:upyours:

Me? Unraveled? I'm not the one who just suggested that John Edwards singlehandedly destroyed the US healthcare system like you did on the other thread.

And for the record, as this is an open forum, if you post a thread, you ought to expect replies from people who disagree with you. If you can't take it, then maybe you ought to reconsider what you post. Or you could always put me on your ignore list. But regardless:

:upyours:

Or you could just stop stalking me like some kinda freek out of a twisted movie.

:upyours:

Kerry Fled

Me? Unraveled? I'm not the one who just suggested that John Edwards singlehandedly destroyed the US healthcare system like you did on the other thread.

And for the record, as this is an open forum, if you post a thread, you ought to expect replies from people who disagree with you. If you can't take it, then maybe you ought to reconsider what you post. Or you could always put me on your ignore list. But regardless:

:upyours:

hehehahahhaha get him!!!!

p.s.i still dont like kerry, but your cool :D

Or, you could both call a truce before this devolves into a full-blown flame war.

(Hides in a corner)

Whatever, he is just upset beacuse the truth about kerry is coming out, and it sucks to be him.

Kerry Fled

Settle down now children, I dont want anyone getting deleated or banned... unless you have a i.p. masking program on your computer. (Incertonia, are you stalking Friends of Bill?)

Settle down now children,Ii dont want anyone getting deleated or banned... unless you have a i.p. masking program on your computer. (Incertonia, are you stalkign Friends of Bill?)
Hell ya, he is.

Kerry Fled

*Ladies and Gentlemen, I present what is known as an echo chamber. This thread consists of individuals reinforcing their own ideas by agreeing with each other for no reason other than they share some singular, limited point of view on a specific subject. It serves no intellectual purpose other than to reinforce their own already strongly held ideas and to provide the illusion that the rest of the world agrees with them, when in most cases, no one else actually gives a shit. It can be found among people of all political persuasions, although this particular sample happens to be of the Kerry-hater variety, known for their belligerence and their unwillingness to consider even the possibility that someone who hates Kerry might be lacking in credibility.*
*Ahem* Mr. Friends of Bill Kettle, Incertonia pot called, it says you're black, sir.

Kerry Fled

And

Kerry sucks

I know it is mostly my fault, but no-one has addressed the point of the thread. Harkin is a liar and doesn't have the credibilty to call Cheney anything.


http://www.donaldsensing.com/2004/08/war-party.html

Harkin Lied About Vietnam War Record

Sen. Tom Harkin, who called Vice President Dick Cheney a "coward" on Tuesday for not serving in Vietnam, has been exposed for lying about his own Vietnam service - or, rather, lack thereof.

"Senator Harkin is a proven fabricator when it comes to his own Vietnam-era record," reports the Wall Street Journal in Thursday editions.

Revisiting its own 1979 report on the tart-tongued Iowa Democrat, the Journal notes:
"In 1979, Mr. Harkin, then a congressman, participated in a round-table discussion arranged by the Congressional Vietnam Veterans' Caucus. 'I spent five years as a Navy pilot, starting in November of 1962,' Mr. Harkin said at that meeting, in words that were later quoted in a book, Changing of the Guard, by Washington Post political writer David Broder. 'One year was in Vietnam. I was flying F-4s and F-8s on combat air patrols and photo-reconnaissance support missions. I did no bombing.'"

The Journal continues:

"That clearly is not an accurate picture of his Navy service. ... Mr. Harkin's Navy record shows his only decoration is the National Defense Service Medal, awarded to everyone on active service during those years. He did not receive either the Vietnam Service medal or the Vietnam Campaign medal, the decorations given to everyone who served in the Southeast Asia theater."

"It turned out Mr. Harkin had not seen combat and was stationed in Japan."

In fact, rather than doing his part to beat back global Communism, Harkin was actually an aider and abettor to Moscow's cause.

Unnoted in today's Journal report: In 1986 Harkin famously traveled to Managua, Nicaragua, to assure Fidel Castro's proxy Daniel Ortega that Senate Democrats were working overtime to thwart President Reagan's efforts to bring Democracy to the region.

With him on the mission - fellow peacenik Sen. John Kerry.

What is it with Democrats lying about Viet Nam? Harkin claimed he took on Migs in Viet Nam. What a joke that party is.




"How did a political party that last held the White House with a man who admitted he dodged the draft and said he loathed the military, who demonstrated against his own country while living overseas, come to be the party that now trumpets more militarism than any other?"

HAHAHA

Kerry Fled

Kerry Fled

Is that your new catch-phrase, or something?

Is that your new catch-phrase, or something?
Yeah, kinda like that pathetic Bush lied crap.

Kerry Fled

Yeah, kinda like that pathetic Bush lied crap.

Kerry Fled

Fair enough. Mine shall be

Kerry sucks

:D

I know it is mostly my fault, but no-one has addressed the point of the thread. Harkin is a liar and doesn't have the credibilty to call Cheney anything.Harkin did serve in the military, did he not? Harkin was an aviator, even if he didn't fly combat missions, was he not? And Cheney's military service consists of...oh yeah. Cheney never served. Yep--Harkin is still more qualified to talk smack about military service than Cheney.

So, does not joining the military make one a coward?

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=56222&stc=1

Harkin did serve in the military, did he not? Harkin was an aviator, even if he didn't fly combat missions, was he not? And Cheney's military service consists of...oh yeah. Cheney never served. Yep--Harkin is still more qualified to talk smack about military service than Cheney.
Yes, becuse a liar is inherently more qualified to talk then a college student who never served. Oops, guess that leaves you out.

Okay, Harkan may have streatched the truth farther than it wanted to go but really, you ought to think about your arguments before you start writing Kerry fled or Kerry sucks . Its actually quite silly and makes you look like an idiot. You don't see me with a Bush never served in the military, got into Harvard and Yale only because daddy had money and failed at everything he ever tried tag in my signature do you?

The original point is made. That's nice. But lets compare him to our glorious leader, shall we. Kerry served in Veitnam, maybe not as well as he says, but he served. Bush served in. . .oh wait, he didn't He flew fighters over Texas to protect us from the invasion of the Viet cong. Wait. . .he didn't do that either because he was awol. Yeah, I forgot. So, regardless of what Kerry did or didn't do in Veitnam, Bush cannot criticise him over it because he never did anything in Veitnam.

So, does not joining the military make one a coward?

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=56222&stc=1
Not at all. But Harkin, by virtue of his service, does have a right to say what he did about Cheney, whether he saw action or not.

Okay, Harkan may have streatched the truth farther than it wanted to go but really, you ought to think about your arguments before you start writing Kerry fled or Kerry sucks . Its actually quite silly and makes you look like an idiot. You don't see me with a Bush never served in the military, got into Harvard and Yale only because daddy had money and failed at everything he ever tried tag in my signature do you?

The original point is made. That's nice. But lets compare him to our glorious leader, shall we. Kerry served in Veitnam, maybe not as well as he says, but he served. Bush served in. . .oh wait, he didn't He flew fighters over Texas to protect us from the invasion of the Viet cong. Wait. . .he didn't do that either because he was awol. Yeah, I forgot. So, regardless of what Kerry did or didn't do in Veitnam, Bush cannot criticise him over it because he never did anything in Veitnam.
Funny, Bush has lead more wars than Kerry fought in, Has lead a war This year, since spring, for longer than Kerry fled from fighting in Viet Nam, and has more war leadership expierience than John Kerry, Bob Kerrey, and Tom Harkin put together. Oh yeah, Kerry failed ata everyting he did in Vietnam, and Bush has led two succesful wars.

Kerry Fled

Not at all. But Harkin, by virtue of his service, does have a right to say what he did about Cheney, whether he saw action or not.
Yes, becuse a liar is inherently more qualified to talk then a college student who never served. Oops, guess that leaves you out.

Yes, becuse a liar is inherently more qualified to talk then a college student who never served. Oops, guess that leaves you out.
So Harkin lied about where he served in the military, whereas Cheney lies about, oh, WMD, connections between Iraq and al Qaeda, and just about everything else that comes out of his damn mouth. In the long run, Harkin still stomps the shit out of Cheney in the honor department.

As for me, well, I'm qualified to talk because I'm just plain smarter than you.

As for me, well, I'm qualified to talk because I'm just plain smarter than you.
I would hope so since you have been in college since before you voted for Carter.

Kerry Fled

Funny, Bush has lead more wars than Kerry fought in,

Do you actually think the President leads us in wartime? We tried that once, it didn't work so well, I think the Generals lead the war, the President supported and authorized it.

Has lead a war This year, since spring, for longer than Kerry fled from fighting in Viet Nam, and has more war leadership expierience than John Kerry, Bob Kerrey, and Tom Harkin put together.

Considering what failures a lot of his business ventures have been, I don't think that experience is helping.

Oh yeah, Kerry failed ata everyting he did in Vietnam, and Bush has led two succesful wars.

Becuase we all know how much power Karzai's government in Afghanistan has, well, in Kabul anyway (thanks to foreign troops), and how Osama is awaiting trial (maybe in absence), and how there are no rogue militias in Iraq. Face it, we don't have a clue whether or not these two wars have been successful, they are still going on.

I would hope so since you have been in college since before you voted for Carter.

Kerry Fled
Oh. now, I'm not that old. I remember Carter's election, but I was only 8 at the time. And I wasn't in college then.

Not at all. But Harkin, by virtue of his service, does have a right to say what he did about Cheney, whether he saw action or not.

So if not being military is not cowardly, how can Harkin call Cheney cowardly for not being military?

Funny, Bush has lead more wars than Kerry fought in, Has lead a war This year, since spring, for longer than Kerry fled from fighting in Viet Nam, and has more war leadership expierience than John Kerry, Bob Kerrey, and Tom Harkin put together. Oh yeah, Kerry failed ata everyting he did in Vietnam, and Bush has led two succesful wars.

Kerry Fled



Okay, led two wars. Like that's a good thing? Second, Bush doesn't lead the war, the generals do. He just sits in his office and says "I want to declare war on nation x" and then someone finds a way to do it. I doubt Bush has ever planned a military strategy or even led a military unit in his life. So him leading wars. . .thats a bunch of BS. Even if Kerry ran, he still has more experience in war than GWB. By the way, can you give me a few sites that show how and when Kerry 'ran' from combat? I'm curious as to where this information came from.

And now on to the case of successful wars. I don't think I'd count either of them as successful. Iraq has plodded on without much movement since the whole 'mission accomplished' incident. If you notice, the lives of Iraquis are really not any better than they were before the war. And this was a war to 'liberate the Iraqi people' right? Now instead, they live in fear of every car being a bomb. Or another one of their loved ones dying from either a terrorist or an American soldier.

As for Afghanistan. What ever happened to the hunt for Osama?

Oh. now, I'm not that old. I remember Carter's election, but I was only 8 at the time. And I wasn't in college then.Based on the quality of his commentary thus far, I wonder if Friends of Bill is even old enough to vote yet.

Hey, FoB: How old are you?

Funny, Bush has lead more wars than Kerry fought in, Has lead a war This year, since spring, for longer than Kerry fled from fighting in Viet Nam, and has more war leadership expierience than John Kerry, Bob Kerrey, and Tom Harkin put together. Oh yeah, Kerry failed ata everyting he did in Vietnam, and Bush has led two succesful wars.Funny? It's friggan hilarious, at least listening to you tell it. If you think Shrub's two wars have been so spectatcularly successful, by all means: hang a "Mission Accomplished" banner in downtown Najif. Let me put this in short, simple words for the benefit of the cognitively challenged: We don't need a president who is stupid enough to play directly into Osama Bin Laden's hands. Just as Adolf Hitler plainly spelled out his aims in his book Mein Kampf, Bin Laden has likewise been frank that his aim was to draw America into a war with the whole Arab world. George Bush's bullshit war on Iraq, was the biggest gift he could have ever given Bin Laden. We don't need a president that gives Al Qaeda gifts. Got it yet?

Second, Bush doesn't lead the war, the generals do. He just sits in his office and says "I want to declare war on nation x" and then someone finds a way to do it.In the more detailed breakdown, Bush says, "I want to declare war on nation x, trump up some justification" and the generals say "I don't think we really want to do that ..." But eventually, Junior holds his breath and gets his way.

I doubt Bush has ever planned a military strategy or even led a military unit in his life. So him leading wars. . .thats a bunch of BS. Even if Kerry ran, he still has more experience in war than GWB. By the way, can you give me a few sites that show how and when Kerry 'ran' from combat? I'm curious as to where this information came from.Where else?: The elephant echo chamber - Fox News, Front Page, etc. etc.

As for Afghanistan. What ever happened to the hunt for Osama?Osama Bin Forgotten. It shows how much they really care about terrorism.

Face it, we don't have a clue whether or not these two wars have been successful, they are still going on.That's putting the situation rather charitably.

That's putting the situation rather charitably.

Well, I wasn't too keen on turning this thread into an argument over whether or not these two war's are successful, so I decided to keep that comment as nuetral as possible.

So if not being military is not cowardly, how can Harkin call Cheney cowardly for not being military?
Look at Harkin's original quote about Cheney. He said, and said accurately, that Cheney is awfully tough when it comes to putting other people's kids in harm's way, although when he had the opportunity to personally serve, he dodged it. Harkin calls that cowardice.

Is it? Not absolutely. There were principled reasons to avoid service in Vietnam, or in other wars, and I certainly don't fault people who decided to use whatever means were at their disposal to avoid that service, whether their reasons were principled or not. I'm not God--I don't pretend to read people's hearts to discover if their motives were pure or not. But it's one thing to acknowledge that you used student deferments and family connections to avoid active service in Vietnam and to be honest about it, and it's another to talk shit like you're some kind of balls-out warrior when you did everything you could to stay out, which Cheney tries to do.

I'll tell you something--because of the time that has passed since Vietnam, this will likely be the last Presidential election where it will be an issue for both candidates (and had the Democrats nominated Edwards instead of Kerry, it wouldn't be an issue this time around) and it can't come too soon for me. It was a divisive war, and the ramifications have already extended too far for my taste.

Yeah, and Kerry Fled
Not before risking his life to save that of another. Now that takes courage. :)

Now let me get this straight:
The pro-Bush lot are saying Kerry fled right?
So according to them, this is what happened:
Some Swift boats came to the aid of another who had struck a mine. At this point, for no apparent reason - cause apparently they weren't under fire at the time - Kerry took off up the river and hid, until the non-exchange of fire ended. Upon returning, Kerry decided this incident would be the best opportunity to claim a medal for and put in a claim for one by saying he rescued someone while coming under fire. The other Swift boat captains, who would have handed in their own reports on the incidence and whose reports didn't contradict Kerry's report, waited until several years later, after Kerry had been awarded the medal, after one of the other Swift Boat captains had also been awarded the same medal for bravery under fire in the same incident, when Kerry started using it for Political gain to claim Kerry made it up and is a coward.
Yeah, that makes sense.

Now let me get this straight:
The pro-Bush lot are saying Kerry fled right?

No I think that's mostly FoB and some others. I wouldn't say all the Bush supporters believe that. I'm too young to vote, just to get that out of the way, and I do support President Bush... sort of. I don't doubt Kerry's war record, and I think questioning it is just playing into Kerry's hands more so he can play the Vietnam card over and over again. I think the Bush campaign would be much better off without the whole questioning Kerry's war record...

Some Swift boats came to the aid of another who had struck a mine. At this point, for no apparent reason - cause apparently they weren't under fire at the time - Kerry took off up the river and hid, until the non-exchange of fire ended.

lol

of course this thread isn't about Kerry, it's about Harkin. so my post becomes pointless and off topic...

Anyway, if that is true about Harkin he shouldn't call Cheney a coward for not being in the military. If it's not then I still don't think this Washington name calling should take place, but what are ya gonna do. Harkin says this Cheney says that. Kerry tells one lie, Bush tells another. I'm gonna stop now because I'm rambling...

Has anyone thought that, considering how edgy Cheney's been lately, maybe Harkin was trolling for some good irrational and foul-mouthed outburst from Cheney that would've made good media fodder.

bump

Kerry sucks

Agreed?
I CONCUR!
but i say bush sucks, too. dun like either of 'em.

I CONCUR!
but i say bush sucks, too. dun like either of 'em.

Me, neither.

Cheney Lied - Jesus died