NationStates Jolt Archive

This is a poll for purely statistical purposes, primarily to satisfy my own curiosity. Go ahead and discuss it in the thread if you like, but I don't guarantee that I'll be reading your response (I am secure in my own answer, which is probably as obvious to me as your own will be to you).

My question to you is: In your opinion, does "evil" in its noun form (a negative force, influence or energy that is diametrically opposed to a positive one, sometimes known as "good"), exist in reality?

This excludes the purely descriptive use of the word "evil" to mean "that which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction".


[NB: You might note that you are also answering "Does 'good' exist?", defining 'good' similarly to above.]



***UPDATE***

everything seems to have gone out of context AGAIN (this seems to be a common habit for forums). The question was to find out if evil as a FORCE exists, this exludes evil acts, thoughts, or otherwise. IT was to find out if there was an evil force behind evil actions.


This pretty much sums up exactly what I was after (well, your opinions on it anyway).

Sorry for the initial vagueness... I realize I wasn't very clear at first, I've found these concepts are pretty hard to wrangle with verbally >_<

This is a poll for purely statistical purposes, primarily to satisfy my own curiosity. Go ahead and discuss it in the thread if you like, but I don't guarantee that I'll be reading your response (I am secure in my own answer, which is probably as obvious to me as your own will be to you).

My question to you is: In your opinion, does "evil" in its noun form (a pervading cosmic or underlying force or influence that is diametrically opposed to that of "good"), exist in reality?

This excludes the purely descriptive use of the word "evil" to mean "that which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction". I'm talking more about the context in which, for example, religious ministers, spiritualists or President George W. Bush have been known to use the word.


[NB: You might note that you are also answering "Does 'good' exist?", defining 'good' similarly to above.]

In the terms as you define it...no.

But as far as positive and negative energies...yes.

Every light, casts shadows.

Yin/Yang.

I don't have much proof to back up your version of the terms so I can't vote. However, if you find this interesting, read "Angelmass" by Timothy Zahn. Sci-Fi book that is heavy in the good/evil topic.

In the terms as you define it...no.

But as far as positive and negative energies...yes.

Every light, casts shadows.

Yin/Yang.


Huh? I don't understand. Wouldn't your vote have been "yes" then? I'll have to alter the question, because my intention was that an opinion like yours would have fallen under "yes".

It may help if you changed it to "a force of good" and a "force of evil." Broad can be good in some cases.

haha I voted yes

Huh? I don't understand. Wouldn't your vote have been "yes" then? I'll have to alter the question, because my intention was that an opinion like yours would have fallen under "yes".


Hmm..maybe I missunderstood your post.

I assumed you meant pretty much a sentient force for good or evil, rather than like poles on a magnet, wich is what I meant.

Not sentient, simply there.

crap, sorry guys >_<

I hope the current version makes it clear what I mean =/

But yes, if it makes it clearer - I consider the opinion that a positive-negative, good-evil polarity (not necessarily sentient) exists as being a "yes" vote. (and I don't mean the magnetic one!!)

crap, sorry guys >_<

I hope the current version makes it clear what I mean =/

But yes, if it makes it clearer - I consider the opinion that a positive-negative, good-evil polarity (not necessarily sentient) exists as being a "yes" vote. (and I don't mean the magnetic one!!)


Clarify it even further....

Are you asking if we believe in good and evil as spiritual embodiments as in "God" or whatever.....and "Satan" (or whatever...)

OR....

As in natural forces that occur and are like opposite poles on a magnet for instance....

Aw, screw it. I don't think this is gonna work. Too many variables.

I don't believe evil exist... I believe theres a absense of good. Kinda like "cold" you cant measure cold because theres no such thing. You can measuer the absense of heat. Heat is energy which can be measured, but "cold" does not have a form of energy to measure. I guess this can be applied the same way as good and evil.

lol the way you are wording it, makes it seem like you mean as in like good (god) and evil (satan) and that is why most of us chose no... we don't believe in evil in that sense.

But doesn't that also negate the idea of good? It's just a matter of opinion whether something is good or not. It can't be measured like temperature. If something is 11 degrees C, there's no room to argue. Why am I using celcius? I'm from America. Alright, 273 degrees Kelvin. No, that's not what 11 degrees C is in Kelvin. I just like Kelvin. Sounds kinda like Kermit. Much happier than the other 2.

But doesn't that also negate the idea of good? It's just a matter of opinion whether something is good or not. It can't be measured like temperature. If something is 11 degrees C, there's no room to argue. Why am I using celcius? I'm from America. Alright, 273 degrees Kelvin. No, that's not what 11 degrees C is in Kelvin. I just like Kelvin. Sounds kinda like Kermit. Much happier than the other 2.


not sure how all of that makes sense (or is a good example) but no, "good being god and evil being satan" does not negate what good is...

Hmm... Interesting take on a common subject...

I'll have to swing my vote towards no, for reasons of terminology. I think of "good" powers/forces/feelings/emotions/higher brain functions as something that comes from God and the Host. I don't think the "bad" feelings come from Satan or some abysis of human misery. Rather, I think of negative emotions as our own personal "blockers". Good emotions flow through you, while bad feelings come right out from within you. So, evil isn't the opposite of good or the absense of good, the way I see it. It's the rejection of good, and evil power is easy to correct.

P.S. The Host is just my personal term for anything spiritual and good but not God itself. Think of it as quasi-pantheon.

Morals are man-made and a way to keep society functioning.

It is (well ... was after we imposed our views) very moral, indispensably so even, for head hunters (the literal Dayak ones) to raid neighbouring villages in order to prove themselves as worthy members of society. This goes for men. Women weave. Both acts being equivalent spiritually.

Morals are man-made and a way to keep society functioning.

It is (well ... was after we imposed our views) very moral, indispensably so even, for head hunters (the literal Dayak ones) to raid neighbouring villages in order to prove themselves as worthy members of society. This goes for men. Women weave. Both acts being equivalent spiritually.

Yup. Active and passive principles. That was what was important back then. Even though the thoughts, morals, and values differed, every human being has had an ability to tell right from wrong. There's a portion of the brain devoted to exactly that. All that matters is what you and your surroundings program into your head.

I voted no. I don't think "good" or "evil" can be considered as outside forces. Or forces at all. I think it depends on the actions ones does and their result.

What is good or evil, is in my opinion decided by the society in wich one live.
To make an example. You have put out a pie to cool in the window. If your dog then eats it, it is not evil because it does not know better, and acted as it nature dictated. If your neighbour eats it, he have done an evil (in a very small way) act, but is not neciserraly evil (If he always steals your pie, one could call him evil).

Beeing good, is to do the moraly rigth thing. Beeing evil is the opposite of beeing good. What is morally rigth is decided mostly by society and the rest of humanity, but also a bit by one self.

'Good' and 'evil' are human concepts.

The universe does not register if a million children die of horrible diseased starvation. It neither cares nor does not care. If if did care, or didn't care, then it would have to be sentient, and then we would have to introduce the concept of a deity, and then we're really discussing the Theodicé-problem in philosophy.

That's the postulation that if there is an omnipotent, all-knowing, all-good deity then how can that deity accept evil. Philosophy has tried to answer that question for a thousand years, and still hasn't successfully done so. Philosophy has surrendered to a concept of 'human free will' as an answer.

Which brings it back to the fact that 'good' and 'evil' are human concepts. We care. But the universe cares just as much as we care whether a mound of termites gets eaten by an ant-eater thousands of miles away. Is that termite disaster good or evil in a cosmic sense?

Humans have an idea of right or wrong, good and evil, but nothing is inherently evil. People judge things to be good and evil, but the thing in question is not intrinsically good or bad. This doesn't mean that the idea of good or evil doesn't exist - it still exists, necessarily. All it means is that it is subjective and based on individual judgement, but judgements can be wrong and right (although, not in the logic sense of true and false).

You would need to clarify what you mean when you say "does evil exist". Do you mean to ask whether we as people can judge actions to be evil, or do you mean to ask whether there exists an actual property of evil, inherent in certain things.

good should flow around you were as evil is there to hurt you and bombard you with pain

say god kicks satan out so satan gets pissed and starts bribing people into mischief to over throw god?

The world is spinning on an 'axis of evil'. :(

evil can exist in the minds and actions of those who are evil, its simple blow someones head your evil, make nice dasiy chanes your not evil. but the confusing bit is the dasiy chane maker would be considerd evil by wierdos who believe that picking flowers is murder and the person who blew the other persons head off might not think that he himself is evil because he is following some kind of vendetta. So its a very blurery subject to disscus but it can some times comes down to what you consider evil and what you consider good and what other people think is evil or think is good.

there is no objective good or evil, but these concepts exist in human morality just as the concept of beauty exists in human minds. the qualities which may be labeled "good," "evil," or "beautiful" are objective, but only a subjective source can assign them to one (or several) of these catagories.

After I've had a few beers... yes. Evil Exists. http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/teufel/devil-smiley-024.gif

After I've had a few beers... yes. Evil Exists. http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/teufel/devil-smiley-024.gif

A few beers? You've plotted evil plans for weeks on end..

A few beers? You've plotted evil plans for weeks on end..

Touche'

I need no beer when properly motivated.

everything seems to have gone out of context AGAIN (this seems to be a common habit for forums). The question was to find out if evil as a FORCE exists, this exludes evil acts, thoughts, or otherwise. IT was to find out if there was an evil force behind evil actions.

My answer is a totally doubtless no. why? I simply believe that there is no force behind evil (or good) acts. They just happen.

and now we get to teh off topic reasoning of 'if no evil force exists, then evil actions can exist'.

This is absolutely true. Evil is a matter of perception. What seems evil to one person seems perfectly natural, or even 'good' to another. No-one, and I mean NO-ONE, goes out with thoughts on doing something that they consider to be truly evil. They wouldn't be able to do it. they may label it evil but they would know that it isn't, otherwise they would be physically and mentally incapable of doing it.

incase you still aren't following, here is a quick example.

A cat is chasing a mouse. The cat doesn't percive the mouse to be either good or evil, it is just food. Food that moves. The mouse on the otherhand would see the cat as something straight from the jaws of hell, something that is pure evil and bent into the sole purpose of killing the mouse. now someone watching this would think of the mouse as (for lack of a better word) evil, and teh cat as good for trying to kill it.

Who is right there? Probably the cat. Nothing there is seen as good nor evil in it's mind. Only as food or NOT food.

The point I'm getting at is evil and good are matters of perception. There are no forces behind them.

but that is just my opinion of the problem at hand.

the qualities which may be labeled "good," "evil," or "beautiful" are objective
Prove it.

Prove it.
Just did.

good and evil are adjectives, not nouns.
It's a fairly clear way of thinking about it. What people tend to do is athropomorphise these adjectives(creating a sentient force of 'EVEEEEL'), which is confused thinking. Just because we can label things good or evil, and that we have the linguistic term for it, does not mean that such things exist in and of themselves.

The concepts are ideas applied to things in reality, or to other ideas based on moral principles or subjective values. They are discrusive creations.

I dont belive in Evil, I dont belive in Good, things can be described as good or evil, because the use of those terms means something to people within the structures of their moralities and languages. What is defined as such is quite contingent.

(It's quite easy to fall into moral relativism here, but there are things that tend to be defined fairly consistently as evil (even if only in the very abstract - such as 'conforming to cultural norms') across cultures.)

good and evil are adjectives, not nouns.
It's a fairly clear way of thinking about it. What people tend to do is athropomorphise these adjectives(creating a sentient force of 'EVEEEEL'), which is confused thinking. Just because we can label things good or evil, and that we have the linguistic term for it, does not mean that such things exist in and of themselves.

The concepts are ideas applied to things in reality, or to other ideas based on moral principles or subjective values. They are discrusive creations.

I dont belive in Evil, I dont belive in Good, things can be described as good or evil, because the use of those terms means something to people within the structures of their moralities and languages. What is defined as such is quite contingent.

(It's quite easy to fall into moral relativism here, but there are things that tend to be defined fairly consistently as evil (even if only in the very abstract - such as 'conforming to cultural norms') across cultures.)

You contradicted yourself, if you don't believe in it; it can't be both.

can't be both what?

can't be both what?

Sweet AND Sour.

Sweet AND Sour.

good point, perhaps you need to think about it dialectically :D

good point, perhaps you need to think about it dialectically :D

*closes dictionary* Exactly!

Everything is relative -Einstein

If there is good, there is evil. THe next thread should be : Does good exists :D

Good and evil are based on perception and opinion.

Perception and opinion are based on what you've been taught.

If I was taught that adultry should be punished by death, is it evil for me to carry out my beliefs?

And if you were taught that adultry should be viewed as something healthy and not at all harmful to anyone, does that make your point of view evil?

I could write a novel on this subject...

sure it does

http://www.joric.com/Hitler%20haggard.jpg

Wow. What a wrinkly jacket. How the hell did he almost take over the world with all those wrinkles?!?

Wow. What a wrinkly jacket. How the hell did he almost take over the world with all those wrinkles?!?

Wow, I looked at the picture again and just noticed that.

everything seems to have gone out of context AGAIN (this seems to be a common habit for forums). The question was to find out if evil as a FORCE exists, this exludes evil acts, thoughts, or otherwise. IT was to find out if there was an evil force behind evil actions.



This pretty much sums up exactly what I was after (well, your opinions on it anyway).

Sorry for the initial vagueness... I realize I wasn't very clear at first, I've found these concepts are pretty hard to wrangle with verbally >_<

When the atrocities committed by Marc Dutroux came to light (erroneously referred to as a pedophile, sex peddler really) an enlightened Belgian cardinal or bishop -I don't remember which- had a rather peculiar view of the events. His reaction: "This proves once again that evil has no face."

Of course not! Exactly the opposite, I'd say. The face of a man making the deliberate choice of going against basic moral principles, the choice of an individual unfit for society.
And ironically a not too unattractive face to boost ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3522367.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3811907.stm
http://www.dw-world.de/english/0,3367,1430_A_1243646,00.html
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/dutroux/evil_1.html

Prove it.
huh?

i said that the qualities we will use to judge something "good" or "evil" are objective. for example, if we judge all red objects to be evil we are making a subjective judgment based on an objective quality of the objects; their reflection of light of a given spectrum (which we call "being red") is objective, but our judgment that red=evil is subjective.

no, evil is a societal term created by humans (conservative religious zealots) who want us not to do anything that doesnt involve suffering or procreation. Evil is just another way to tell us we dont know what's right...sad isn't it.

This pretty much sums up exactly what I was after (well, your opinions on it anyway).

Sorry for the initial vagueness... I realize I wasn't very clear at first, I've found these concepts are pretty hard to wrangle with verbally >_<

Well I do try... alot of this off teh topicness comes not from you phrasing it badly, but from people just not being able to accept what is being asked of them. They are brought up to believe something is a certain way, and the majority of them default to a certain way of thinking about it, no-matter what they are asked.

:headbang: I knida know how this guy feels when you try to get ppl to understand what you're saying...

Well I do try... alot of this off teh topicness comes not from you phrasing it badly, but from people just not being able to accept what is being asked of them. They are brought up to believe something is a certain way, and the majority of them default to a certain way of thinking about it, no-matter what they are asked.
More likely the problem is that it is rarely clarified as to what sort of answer is wanted. If you asked a mystic, philosopher, psychologist, or an average person the same question they would all answer differently; yet the answers would be somewhat more valid in their own domain than when answered in another.

The concepts of Good and Evil are human inventions. So no, evil does not exist without humans describing an event as one or the other

The concepts of Good and Evil are human inventions. So no, evil does not exist without humans describing an event as one or the other
I can't believe how many times I have seen this. "X and Y are human inventions, therefore they don't exist". Good and evil are words, and are defined to include certain things; it doesn't matter if it is subjective. If I define the word "OogahBoogha" to mean "a red brick that looks nice when thrown at a window" does that means that simply because it is subjective that it doesn't exist? Are there no red bricks that look nice when thrown at a window simply because I called it OogahBoogah? Again it doesn't matter that there is a secondary subjective quality within my definition - "looks nice" - it could just as easily be a red brick that is thrown at a window.

What you mean is that good and evil are not objective, and not that they don't exist. There is a huge difference.