NationStates Jolt Archive

Which term do you prefer to use. Anti-Abortion is biased one way because there is 'anti' in it and that will usually make people think "bad". Pro-Life is biased the other way because Pro-Life sounds like the better side. I prefer Pro-Life because that is how I learned it (Pro-Life v. Pro-Choice) but I see anti-abortion used a lot, usually on the Pro-Choice side. Anyway, I'd like to know which term you prefer using and why

I love it when I'm called the "Anti-Life"...then I tell them I also support the death penalty (which I do).

And then I take out a huge knife and shine it, and slowly press it towards my neck so that it makes a long mark....



And then I wake up and figure out that I'm not in a mob. And then I curse.

I'll put you down for other...

I prefer anti-abortion, as I feel it's more accurate. I know people who are against abortion but for the death penalty. I wouldn't really call that pro-life.

Cleaning your gun when someone tries to sell you something at your door is also very amusing. I call it fundamentalism...

true, very true

maybe for both...

Anti-abortion, for reasons that everyone else has already stated :p

well, I am pro-choice myself, (I believe that it should be up to each woman and her doctor, although I myself won't have an abortion unless its life threatening to carry a child.) and I think the opposite is anti-abortion.

its a better word than pro-life (when it comes to this topic) because as someone already say, someone can be anti-abortion but support the death penalty, and that isn't pro-life.

Also, pro-choice isn't pro-death... the direct opposite to anti-abortion would be 'pro-abortion' - all abortion, every pregnancy, giving birth is *never* allowed (except in some 'rare' cases that no two people would be able to agree on).

Pro-choice is just pro-choice... choice = good++

I also think anti-abortion is a better word than 'pro-life'... because that's what they *are*. Anti. Abortion. Not supportive of abortion. They think it's wrong. 'Pro-life' is just a term used to make that side out to be the 'good guys' (because most don't want to *sound* like they're removing rights, even if that's actually what they want to do).

"pro-life" is a silly term all around, since all "pro-life" people support human eating, which requires the death of other life. anti-abortion is an accurate term that describes the specific position of the people who hold that abortion should not be available.

pro-choice is very different from pro-abortion, as well; i, personally, am pro-abortion, but most pro-choice people are not. most pro-choice people think abortion is horrible but sometimes necessary, or that it is not their business to control the bodies of other humans, and that is quite different from being pro-abortion.

Hmn... I'd consider myself pro-choice because it means that you are aware of your options and choices and you have looked at the whole picture before making a decision. While I believe in life, on principle I can't accept either, sinc eneither goes with my beliefs... However, my peers have a point about the Anti-abortion title...more straightforward.

Any group who tries to enforce their will on pregnant women can not be pro-life, especially not the mother's life. Pro-StickingYourNoseInOthersBusiness is the term i would use

Pro-choice means pro-woman. That's my opinion. They can do what they want. We guys can't tell them what to do with their uteruses (sp?) why should the govt.?

pro-choice is very different from pro-abortion, as well; i, personally, am pro-abortion, but most pro-choice people are not. most pro-choice people think abortion is horrible but sometimes necessary, or that it is not their business to control the bodies of other humans, and that is quite different from being pro-abortion.
So they support the "right" to an abortion, rather than oppose it as anti-abortion people do. As far as I can tell, no matter how you try to make an excuse for it, if you support it, you're pro-abortion.

So they support the "right" to an abortion, rather than oppose it as anti-abortion people do. As far as I can tell, no matter how you try to make an excuse for it, if you support it, you're pro-abortion.
no, because many pro-choice people think abortion is awful and wish to do anything possible to reduce the need for it. they aren't in favor of abortion, they simply believe the choice should be available for a variety of reasons.

it's like my uncle; he doesn't approve of drinking or drug use, never does either, and tries to encourage others to stay away from using. however, he strongly supports decriminalization of drugs and continued legal availability of alcohol, because he believes it is up to each individual to make choices about their own health and body. he is not, by any stretch of the imagination, "pro-alcohol" or "pro-drugs," but he supports free choice for adults.

I would say Anti Abortion is the more correct term.

As far as my opinion...

I was pro choice until my wife had her first ultrasound. It changed me. A woman can have a medically safe abortion until (I believe) week 16. By this point the baby has developed eyelids, has a beating heart, developed fingers and toes and can hear you talk and sing.

Break it down into it's simplest form, it's is killing a human life. As far as I'm concerned that's all it is.

Which term do you prefer to use. Anti-Abortion is biased one way because there is 'anti' in it and that will usually make people think "bad". Pro-Life is biased the other way because Pro-Life sounds like the better side. I prefer Pro-Life because that is how I learned it (Pro-Life v. Pro-Choice) but I see anti-abortion used a lot, usually on the Pro-Choice side. Anyway, I'd like to know which term you prefer using and why
Anti-abortion (or anti-choice, depending), since they certainly aren't pro-life.

I would say Anti Abortion is the more correct term.

As far as my opinion...

I was pro choice until my wife had her first ultrasound. It changed me. A woman can have a medically safe abortion until (I believe) week 16. By this point the baby has developed eyelids, has a beating heart, developed fingers and toes and can hear you talk and sing.

Break it down into it's simplest form, it's is killing a human life. As far as I'm concerned that's all it is.

Does this mean that you wish to impose your views on all other women?
Would that make you pro-life?

he is not, by any stretch of the imagination, "pro-alcohol" or "pro-drugs," but he supports free choice for adults.
Yes, he is. He supports the "rights" for adults to have these things. If he was down on the Senate floor voting, he would for 'yea'. It boils down to the fact that he wants these things to be legal.

First off, I believe a woman has the right to a safe legal abortion. I also believe that Pro-Life is a disingenuous label for the reasons already stated. Nobody wants to be on a side that is not Pro-Life.

That said, Pro-Choice is also a disingenous label as it does not refer to anything other than a woman's right to an abortion. By euphemizing it, the labeler distances themself from what is ultimately a distasteful thing to many. After all, nobody wants to oppose freedom of choice. This country was founded on freedom.

Both sides are trying to paint themselves as being based on good American values. Fact is, neither side is. The organizations behind both movements have points of view that are too extreme. Abortions should be available, safe, and legal. The "Pro-Life" lobby won't go for this. There should be limits on abortions, however. The "Pro-choice" lobby won't go for this.

I'm sorry, but you can't convince me that a third trimester abortion where the mother's life is not in jeopardy is necessary or good. The problem is that neither side trusts the other. So, no ground can be given.

I don't have a solution. I'm just trying to frame the discussion in terms fair to both sides. I guess the best label is "Pro-abortion availability".

Yes, he is. He supports the "rights" for adults to have these things. If he was down on the Senate floor voting, he would for 'yea'. It boils down to the fact that he wants these things to be legal.
i believe racism should be legal, because i support free speech. that doesn't make me pro-racism...in fact, i strongly oppose racism and do everything in my power to make sure nobody turns to such a sad worldview. i don't think you can call me "pro-racism" just because i support free speech. if you want to call me that you can, just like you can call me Dwayne if you feel like it; neither will be true, but you can say what you like.

I'm sorry, but you can't convince me that a third trimester abortion where the mother's life is not in jeopardy is necessary or good.
nobody needs to convince you of that because elective third-term abortions are a myth. the ONLY reason such abortions are performed (in America, at least), is to safeguard the health and safety of the mother. most states have had laws on the books that regulate that for at least 20 years, and even in those that don't have laws there have been ZERO elective third-trimester abortions performed by medical professionals. the idea that women carry until the end of term and then decide on a whim to abort is a fabrication created by the same people who made up the "partial-birth" term.

i believe racism should be legal, because i support free speech. that doesn't make me pro-racism...in fact, i strongly oppose racism and do everything in my power to make sure nobody turns to such a sad worldview. i don't think you can call me "pro-racism" just because i support free speech. if you want to call me that you can, just like you can call me Dwayne if you feel like it; neither will be true, but you can say what you like.
If there was ever a serious debate on whether racism should be banned, and you said it shouldn't be, then you would be on the pro-racism side. Its all hypothetical though because nothing of the such has really happened seriously.

If there was ever a serious debate on whether racism should be banned, and you said it shouldn't be, then you would be on the pro-racism side. Its all hypothetical though because nothing of the such has really happened seriously.
ahh, so if i support the freedom of religion that means i must be pro-religion, right? lol, you should really talk to some of the people around here, to learn how wrong you are about that. i am strongly anti-religion, and very vocal about it, but i totally defend religious freedom.

you really seem to want to make things diametric when they aren't, and i am forced to wonder why that is. perhaps you need a clear "us versus them" situation? i don't know, and don't really care, so call it what you like...i will defend to the death your freedom to speak nonsense.

Personally, I support either parent's right to abort the child's life at any point they wish, right on up to when the little bugger gets married. At that point, the prerogative to terminate the fetus becomes his wife's option.

Oh, and the plural of uterus is uterii. I wish I were kidding.

--Bennett, Emperor of the Dark Elves, Who Is Just Kidding About Most of This


"I brought you into this world, and I can take you out!"-Bill Cosby

ahh, so if i support the freedom of religion that means i must be pro-religion, right? lol, you should really talk to some of the people around here, to learn how wrong you are about that. i am strongly anti-religion, and very vocal about it, but i totally defend religious freedom.

Because when it comes down to it, with politicians, it ends up being a yes or no thing. I support gun rights but I don't own a gun. Many people are like me. Perhaps we should be labeled pro-choice as well, because we support the choice of people to own guns? Or people who think that gay marriage should be an issue decided by the people rather than the courts. They're not anti-gay marriage like people say they are, they're simply pro-choice as well.

I actually use the term "anti-choice," because it is truly the opposite of pro-choice. I, personally, am pro-choice and anti-abortion, in that I think abortion is rarely, if ever, the best choice to make. However, that is a personal moral decision on my part and I think every woman should have the right to make that choice for herself. Self-proclaimed "pro-lifers" are opposed to the idea of a woman even having that choice to make.

Because when it comes down to it, with politicians, it ends up being a yes or no thing. I support gun rights but I don't own a gun. Many people are like me. Perhaps we should be labeled pro-choice as well, because we support the choice of people to own guns? Or people who think that gay marriage should be an issue decided by the people rather than the courts. They're not anti-gay marriage like people say they are, they're simply pro-choice as well.
i would support that label, sure. pro-choice is a more broad term, and i have no problem with using it to describe people who support decriminalization of all victimless crimes.

if your problem is that you don't like the term "pro-choice" then feel free to propose a new one, but don't try to use "pro-abortion." pro-abortion is what i happen to be, but it is not a correct term for most people currently classified as "pro-choice."

So they support the "right" to an abortion, rather than oppose it as anti-abortion people do. As far as I can tell, no matter how you try to make an excuse for it, if you support it, you're pro-abortion.That's on the same level as saying that anti abortionists are pro the rights of rapists to have children.

That's on the same level as saying that anti abortionists are pro the rights of rapists to have children.
If anti-abortion means your anti-abortion in its entirety, then thats true.

If anti-abortion means your anti-abortion in its entirety, then thats true.

But it's really silly to make distinctions like that, becaues very few people are "anti-abortion in its entirety" or "pro-abortion in its entirety." Everybody puts certain distinctions on it. I mean, if you are completely and totally anti-abortion, you certainly aren't pro-life - as you're views would involve the death of some mothers and fetuses out there. If you care completely pro-abortion, there will never be any children born!

Besides, the two sides are not necessarily completely opposed. As I have said before, I am pro-choice and anti-abortion. The two can coexist.

Well it seems anti-abortion is the more prefered term. Also, this isn't an anti-anti-abortion thread so please refrain from the insults. (Most have been good, some have not...)

I'm sorry, but you can't convince me that a third trimester abortion where the mother's life is not in jeopardy is necessary or good. The problem is that neither side trusts the other. So, no ground can be given.



look, I call myself pro-choice (I already posted)... but I am going to tell you this, Third Trimester abortions also known as partial birth abortions SHOULD be outlawed unless it is medical necessicary (spelling?) anyway, MOST doctors refuse to preform abortions after 12 weeks (some go a little longer than that) but seriously call some places (all around) you will find that more than 9 times out of 10 you can NOT find a doctor that allows partial birth abortion UNLESS it is MEDICALLY necessicary.

I think they were outlawed at one time, but some judges ruled it unconstitutional. Of course that could just be my imagination...

Well, I think I prefer the term Anti-Abortion. It's not trying to candy coat things like so many political groups try and do with their stances. It means what it says.

That said, I don't support outlawing it. I do support restricting it, however... For example, minor children should be required to have a parent's concent. And I oppose tax-payer funds paying for the procedure. And that whole 3rd trimester thing should be right out, barring health reasons.

Which term do you prefer to use. Anti-Abortion is biased one way because there is 'anti' in it and that will usually make people think "bad". Pro-Life is biased the other way because Pro-Life sounds like the better side. I prefer Pro-Life because that is how I learned it (Pro-Life v. Pro-Choice) but I see anti-abortion used a lot, usually on the Pro-Choice side. Anyway, I'd like to know which term you prefer using and whyHow about 'pro-lifers' who have no qualms about bombing entire villages into the ground and other state-sponsered murders of innocents? I'd say that these hipocrites are just anti-choice- not even 'anti-abortion' as fetuses suffer in these murderous m=bombing sprees as well, not to mention countless gallons of sacred sperm.

Then there is the fact that 'pro-choice' and 'anti-abortion/ anti-choice ' are more inclusive catagoies.

Many people who support a women's right to choose do not support abortion as much as they support indavidual rights, and 99.9% of those who indentify with the so-called 'pro-life' camp support a drastic restriction abortion rights, while many are ont 'pro-life' in cases of state-sponsered murder.

Two points to make...

First, in reference to the term PRO-CHOICE

Pro-Choice is also a disingenous label as it does not refer to anything other than a woman's right to an abortion. By euphemizing it, the labeler distances themself from what is ultimately a distasteful thing to many. After all, nobody wants to oppose freedom of choice.

I would have to respectfully disagree with your statement, Briwise. Having been active in several Pro-Choice organisations over the years I can attest to the following:

The Pro-Choice movement is NOT just about the legal right to obtain an abortion. It is about reproductive freedom at large. What does this mean?

- Supporting access to contraceptives

- Supporting legislation requiring insurance companies to cover contraceptives, especially oral ones (As a side note, I find it reprehensible that more health insurance plans cover Viagra than the Pill.)

- Supporting legislation requiring insurance companies to cover, yes, abortion
(most policies do not cover abortion, which is particularly detrimental to the right to choose for low-income women who cannot magically make several hundred dollars appear out of thin air)

- Supporting contraceptive research (of both the hormonal and barrier varieties)

- Supporting a woman's right to choose to have an abortion or carry to term

- Supporting a woman's right to choose to give a child up for adoption

- Supporting free or low-cost access to reproductive health care for women, such as yearly GYN exams and even pre-natal care


Second point, 3rd trimester abortions...

I think they were outlawed at one time, but some judges ruled it unconstitutional. Of course that could just be my imagination...

There is ONE state (yes 1 out of 50) where an abortion is permitted in the 3rd trimester. The majority of states only permit abortions to 16 weeks, which is just into 2nd trimester (12, 24, 36 is the breakdown for ease of reference).

That state is (believe it or not) Kansas. An they only permit abortions through week 26, which is just about the time of fetal viability. And to be even mor granular, in that one state there is one physician in one clinic who performs them. (I shall not divulge the name out of concern for the safety of aforementioned physician.)

Pennsylvania law allows abortions until 22 weeks
New York 24 weeks
New Jersey 20 weeks
DC 16 weeks

At least these were the limits a year ago...they could have changed since then...

Any physician who performs an abortion past the legal limit risks not only having their license revoked, but also serving time in prison.

Thanks for listening...

and thank you for clearing that up. I don't like being ful of false information...

I'm against reproductive rights for women, but for killing babies.

Haha, I haven't even actually read most of the replies, but this post made me think of something funny...

I was talking to a friend about some political things, and I mentioned I was pro-life and pro-death...

It sounded funny... it makes sense, meaning I'm against abortions and I'm for the death penalty, but still... haha, "I'm pro-life and pro-death".

Also, in addition to what Phyrrhoni posted:

Many people want to overturn the Roe v. Wade decision, but have never actually read it. It specifically lays out suggestions for when abortions should be allowed.

First trimester: Any and all abortions allowed
2nd trimester: Only on a doctor's suggestion (ie some sort of health problems will be incurred).
3rd trimester: Only if the mother's health is in significant danger or the fetus will not survive.

Most state laws follow this pretty closely, although some use the term "quickening" to determine at what point elective abortions cannot be carried out.

I don’t like either phrase. Pro-life can be used to imply many other things than abortion. Such as the desire to live. And people can be anti-abortion yet still want to allow others to be able to have an abortion if they so desired. So how about these two categories Legal abortion yay, and legal abortion nay? Or to simplify things through acronym use LAY and LAN.

Legal abortion yay, and legal abortion nay? Or to simplify things through acronym use LAY and LAN.
How about Legal Abortion Yea and Nay Abortion. Makes it easier to pick up adherents in bars.

LAY? NA.

well, I am pro-choice myself, (I believe that it should be up to each woman and her doctor, although I myself won't have an abortion unless its life threatening to carry a child.) and I think the opposite is anti-abortion.

its a better word than pro-life (when it comes to this topic) because as someone already say, someone can be anti-abortion but support the death penalty, and that isn't pro-life.

to be fair, they should say "pro-killingunbornbabieswithsharpobjectsandremovingtheirlittlebodiesandtossingitintoatrashbag"
just to make it fair, since i am anti-abortion

Hmm... I don't like people, but I don't like abortion either. I'll go with Anti-Abortion. :D

Here's one of my favorite but rarely appropriate George Carlin quotes:

"You don't see a lot of these white anti-abortion women volunteering to have black fetuses transplanted into their uteruses do you? No. You don't see them adopting a whole lot of crack babies do you? No. That might be something Christ would do." -George Carlin

How about Legal Abortion Yea and Nay Abortion. Makes it easier to pick up adherents in bars.

LAY? NA.
Well if you put it that way :D

to be fair, they should say "pro-killingunbornbabieswithsharpobjectsandremovingtheirlittlebodiesandtossingitintoatrashbag"
just to make it fair, since i am anti-abortion
Technically a fetus doesn’t become a baby until it becomes viable enough to live outside of the uterus. Which is typically after the first trimester. Even then it’s still a fetus until it pops out. But you’ll hardly ever find an abortion that comes after that. Although there will be some extenuating circumstances.

I know I know, but I SO wanted to take a cheap shot. You know? But I did put in the qualifier "unborn baby" so it wasn't too far off.

I know I know, but I SO wanted to take a cheap shot. You know? But I did put in the qualifier "unborn baby" so it wasn't too far off.
sure, like how we should call all humans "undead corpses" because it's not too far off.

sure, like how we should call all humans "undead corpses" because it's not too far off.
I’m sure quite a few Goths would agree with that statement.

to be fair, they should say "pro-killingunbornbabieswithsharpobjectsandremovingtheirlittlebodiesandtossingitintoatrashbag"
just to make it fair, since i am anti-abortion

Of course, I am pro-choice and anti-abortion. How does that fit into your definitions?

Just to clarify: it wouldn't be a trashbag anyways, it would be a biohazard bag.

to be fair, they should say "pro-killingunbornbabieswithsharpobjectsandremovingtheirlittlebodiesandtossingitintoatrashbag"
just to make it fair, since i am anti-abortion

I'll agree to that if you agree to say "pro-forcing-women-to-carry-a-parasitic-organism-inside-their-own-body-just-because-some-people-don't-understand-biology", just to make it fair since I am pro-choice (or pro-killingunbornbabieswithsharpobjectsandremovingtheirlittlebodiesandtossingitintoatrashbag, if you like :D)

I think anti-abortion is a more correct term.

I'd have to say that I'm pro-choice, but that doesn't mean I think abortion is the right choice. It's a moral issue (meaning that everyone has their own convictions about whether it's right or wrong), and a person has to make their own decisions. This is why I think there should be more sex education (showing both sides of the equation equally), so that people can make an informed decision.