NationStates Jolt Archive

I've decided to hit back at all the EU haters, such as paranoid individuals like UKIP. And explain a few things.

The European Union is a collection of democratic sovereign states who are co-operating on a democratic basis. Every decision in the European Union is made by governments which we elect, and those decisions are ratified by parliaments who we elect. The idea that somehow this is some sort of great conspiracy by an awful green man in Brussels somehow forcing us to abandon our nationhood when we've got no say on it is so far removed from reality as to be ridiculous.

Europe is democratic, it needs to be more democratic, that is why Representatives are trying to have a constitutional treaty which will include increased democracy in particular by giving more power back to member states and increasing the role of national parliaments, that is what its about, making sure that they do deal with the democratic deficit that has existed in the past and that is gradually being eroded.

Europhilia has grown in recent times, particurlarly in Britain thanks to the influences of such noble people as Irwin Stelzer - his relationship with Bush and thus with Blair is extremely unnerving, as is the fact he is considered by many to be a 'bastion of American efforts to undermine the EU'.

oh wow. you say you are greek... from your posts it seems you are greek cypriot.. vent some more...

do not let anyone disagree... go for it!

dissect me for bumping your thread!

How is the voting system set up? Do the more populated countries have more of a say? That would give a bit of power to Turkey, wouldnt it?

How is the voting system set up? Do the more populated countries have more of a say? That would give a bit of power to Turkey, wouldnt it?
Turkey isn't a member. And hopefully never will be.

Turkey isn't a member. And hopefully never will be.
As cool as I think a world government would be, Turkey is most definitely not part of Europe. Hence, putting them in the European Union would be a bit, well, moronic. Maybe they can create an MEU (Mid-East Union), then we can have an AU (Africa), and AU (the Americas), and another AU (Asia), and finally the OU (Oceania). It'd be friggin awesome. But extremely confusing, so I propose that two of the following three: Asia, Africa, and America; change names so as to make the distinctions better.

How is the voting system set up? Do the more populated countries have more of a say? That would give a bit of power to Turkey, wouldnt it?

Shhh, don't mention Turkey in a thread NWV might look at.

Turkey isn't a member.

Not yet, anyway

As cool as I think a world government would be, Turkey is most definitely not part of Europe. Hence, putting them in the European Union would be a bit, well, moronic.

No more moronic than putting Israel and Turkey in the Eurovision Song Contest - a precedent has been set and you cannot hold back the crushing weight of the force of history.

Not yet, anyway
And not even close! Let's not even give em a date when they could try to approach (yes! approach, cos they are ungodly heathens!!!) membership.

As cool as I think a world government would be, Turkey is most definitely not part of Europe. Hence, putting them in the European Union would be a bit, well, moronic. Maybe they can create an MEU (Mid-East Union), then we can have an AU (Africa), and AU (the Americas), and another AU (Asia), and finally the OU (Oceania). It'd be friggin awesome. But extremely confusing, so I propose that two of the following three: Asia, Africa, and America; change names so as to make the distinctions better.
There already is an African Union. And I believe ASEAN can be called somekind of Asian Union.

No more moronic than putting Israel and Turkey in the Eurovision Song Contest
Or let both participate in the Eurocup. I never understood why that was allowed. But it's not a precedent for a membership.

oh wow. you say you are greek... from your posts it seems you are greek cypriot.. vent some more...

do not let anyone disagree... go for it!

dissect me for bumping your thread!
Oh god no... NWV is possibly Greek??!! WAAAAAHH!! EVIL!! NO!! No such evil should be allowed to exist!! (well, kind of sarcastically, kind of melodramatically)

LOL
right, well...
I don't think you need to help him... he can master it on his own when his pa - the lobbyist, or his brother - the economist wakes him up.
just observe

EDIT: Right, I was petty.. Just read tooo much of those posts. Sorry NWV, just trash me.

You do realize that you are borderline fascist in your devotion to the EU, right? It is one thing to be proud of your own home, it is quite another to try to claim that your home is superior to all others and to go out of your way to insult the homes of others. I see very little difference between your patriotism and the forms of patriotism that you claim to hate.

And not even close! Let's not even give em a date when they could try to approach (yes! approach, cos they are ungodly heathens!!!) membership.

Why do Americans talk about stuff they know nothing of?

These are our affairs, do not put your puppets like Barosso in our midsts, because we will find out.

Turkey is a country dominated by the military - it holds to what we would amount in Western Europe as 'unacceptable' power in a modern democracy. It has ultra-draconian laws, arrests people for criticizing the state and has committed awful war crimes. Why should we let them in?

Not yet, anyway

What country are you from?

God dammit, now you got NWV on about Turks again.

hehe, sorry NWV.
Great Void is a puppet of mine. Not American, and I did my thesis on Cyprus conflict. :)

hehe, sorry NWV.
Great Void is a puppet of mine. Not American, and I did my thesis on Cyprus conflict. :)

No problem.

hehe, sorry NWV.
Great Void is a puppet of mine. Not American, and I did my thesis on Cyprus conflict. :)

Ooooooh, ok, question for you.

Did the greeks commit attrocities in the cyprus conflict as the Turks did?

Turkey is a country dominated by the military - it holds to what we would amount in Western Europe as 'unacceptable' power in a modern democracy. It has ultra-draconian laws, arrests people for criticizing the state and has committed awful war crimes. Why should we let them in?
Are sure that isn't America you're describing?!

God dammit, now you got NWV on about Turks again.
Really? I was unaware that pointing out basic fundamental reasons why Turkey should not join the EU, and how America asking for Turkey to be given a date is considered by most to be complete arrogance, and only an attempt to counterbalance France and Germany. If Turkey was in the EU - It would dissolve within ten years, and the US would have achieved thier aim in derailing what is possibly one of the biggest threats to thier global dominance.

Ooooooh, ok, question for you.

Did the greeks commit attrocities in the cyprus conflict as the Turks did?
I am unaware of 'atrocities' on the same scale as ethnic cleansing. In the same vein I find your utter denial of Turkish massacres over the years disgusting. I lost a family member to that barbarian horde they call an 'army'. You have proven your complete ignorance on this topic by trying to compare a a few crimes with 'Operation Atilla' and the disgusting massacres, mass rapes, torture, 'missing' people, desecration of graveyards and churches and stealing of property that accompanied it. Now just fuck off, I'm sick of people justifying massacres, and I'm sick of the fact they are usually Republican Americans who justify it because it was 'In the US' Interests' - If you people don't want another 9/11 to happen, you should stop thinking about how well the 'War' is being waged, and think about the countless people signing up for terrorist groups because of your foreign policy.

Are sure that isn't America you're describing?!

Is this some sarcastic comment? Or do you just choose to remain blissfully unaware of the crimes Turkey has committed simply because they are 'allies' with the US.

I am unaware of 'atrocities' on the same scale as ethnic cleansing. In the same vein I find your utter denial of Turkish massacres over the years disgusting. I lost a family member to that barbarian horde they call and 'army'. You have proven your complete ignorance on this topic by trying to compare a a few crimes with 'Operation Atilla' and the disgusting massacres, mass rapes, torture, 'missing' people, desecration of graveyards and churches and stealing of property that accompanied it.

One more time, I never denied anything you said about the Turks.

I don't understand why you have such a hard time catching on to that.

One more time, I never denied anything you said about the Turks.

I don't understand why you have such a hard time catching on to that.
You chose to compare Turkish War Crimes to one of incidents involving Greek Cypriots. In my mind that is disgusting, and whats more - its totally wrong.

You chose to compare Turkish War Crimes to one of incidents involving Greek Cypriots. In my mind that is disgusting, and whats more - its totally wrong.

But I didn't deny that the Turks commited war crimes, did I?

Is this some sarcastic comment? Or do you just choose to remain blissfully unaware of the crimes Turkey has committed simply because they are 'allies' with the US.
I hate the USA...and...well, I can't hate my own people, can I, because that is a very large number...

ps. Are you Greek?

I hate the USA...and...well, I can't hate my own people, can I, because that is a very large number...

Ah, I see. Ok, sorry then.

Ah, I see. Ok, sorry then.
;) I'm glad because when I say it's a huge number... well...we won't go into that.

But I didn't deny that the Turks commited war crimes, did I?

You chose to compare Operation Atilla (They are a barbarian Army) to one off incidents involving Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots. That is just as bad and it is an insult to all of those innocent people who died that you try and justify it.

You chose to compare Operation Atilla (They are a barbarian Army) to one off incidents involving Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots. That is just as bad and it is an insult to all of those innocent people who died that you try and justify it.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Nevermind, you're an idiot, this is pointless.

I'm going to wait for bunnyducks to answer my question.

Ooooooh, ok, question for you.

Did the greeks commit attrocities in the cyprus conflict as the Turks did?
Well, some would say it's b'cos of the greek junta that the Turks entered Cyprus. There were overkills on both sides. I'm sure NWV will fill you in.

(please NWV, Cyprus conflict is what i make me bread on, could you tip me to some articles about it ... ones after the referendum (they should be in english.... i do read greek... but poorly)... if you know some... do message this nation...)

Well, some would say it's b'cos of the greek junta the Turks entered Cyprus. There were overkils on both sides. I'm sure NWV will fill you in.

(please NWV, Cyprus conflict is what i make me bread on, could you tip me to some articles about it ... ones after the referendum (they should be in english.... i do read greek... but poorly)... if you know some... do message this nation...)

He won't fill me in about anything the Greeks did, as far as he's concerned, the Greeks were an innocent puppy slaughtered by a big mean Turkish man.

Edit: Oh, and thanks for answering my question.

Well, some would say it's b'cos of the greek junta the Turks entered Cyprus. There were overkils on both sides. I'm sure NWV will fill you in.

(please NWV, Cyprus conflict is what i make me bread on, could you tip me to some articles about it ... ones after the referendum (they should be in english.... i do read greek... but poorly)... if you know some... do message this nation...)

I'll try and find some. You could buy the Cyprus Mail - available at some newsagents.

The 'referendum' itself was a joke, right of return was completely in Turkey's favour, Turkish troops would be allowed to remain on the island and 18% of the population would have a 50% stake in the national parliament. There were no attempts made to deal with the issue of 'sovereign' bases and there was that stupid '3 people per family' return thing whereby if a mother father daughter and son got thier chance to return, one of them would have to remain behind or none could go.

And the Junta was plain rubbish - Everyone knew the Government of the Junta was not going to survive and Turkey was more concerned about Greece gaining control of Cyprus through enosis.

He won't fill me in about anything the Greeks did, as far as he's concerned, the Greeks were an innocent puppy slaughtered by a big mean Turkish man.
Oh god no! He sounds like my yaya's family!

Of course not! The Greeks are arrogant!

:headbang: and then there's papu who did nothing and they hated him... (yeah, NWV, how do you like that, I'm a mix of both Greek and Turkish...so, hate me yet?)

NWV, look at this.

http://www.greece.org/cyprus/Takism5.htm

He won't fill me in about anything the Greeks did, as far as he's concerned, the Greeks were an innocent puppy slaughtered by a big mean Turkish man.

I really cannot believe your total and utter lack of understanding. You honestly believe purely and simply that the Turkish Troops behaved is an honourable manner - and that everything I say about War Crimes is some kind of a big lie? You truly are a piece of shit. You insult every innocent person that fell on that day, and as such I will have to respond in kind if you do not back down from your disgustingly insulting nature.

I really cannot believe your total and utter lack of understanding. You honestly believe purely and simply that the Turkish Troops behaved is an honourable manner - and that everything I say about War Crimes is some kind of a big lie? You truly are a piece of shit. You insult every innocent person that fell on that day, and as such I will have to respond in kind if you do not back down from your disgustingly insulting nature.

This is the last time I'm going to say this.

I never said the Turkish didn't commit war crimes or that they were justified in commiting them.

Why do you keep telling me that's what I said?

Oh god no! He sounds like my yaya's family!

Of course not! The Greeks are arrogant!

:headbang: and then there's papu who did nothing and they hated him... (yeah, NWV, how do you like that, I'm a mix of both Greek and Turkish...so, hate me yet?)

You wouldn't be saying that if you lived in Kerynia in July 19th 1974....

NWV, look at this.

http://www.greece.org/cyprus/Takism5.htm
This is good. *snicker* it makes the American president look like such an asshole! I love it!

This is the last time I'm going to say this.

I never said the Turkish didn't commit war crimes or that they were justified in commiting them.

Why do you keep telling me that's what I said?

"the Greeks were an innocent puppy slaughtered by a big mean Turkish man"

Well seeing as there were mass rapes to the point that the Southern Hospitals had to start turning people away who wanted abortions, as they could not cope. Mass murder, seizing of property, destruction of anything remotely related to christianity (no churches are left). That pretty much was the case.

Well seeing as there were mass rapes to the point that the Southern Hospitals had to start turning people away who wanted abortions, as they could not cope. Mass murder, seizing of property, destruction of anything remotely related to christianity (no churches are left). That pretty much was the case.
Yes, we know you hate the Turks...now link me! Show me evidence that the Turks are really this bad and I want an UNBIAS source!

Well seeing as there were mass rapes to the point that the Southern Hospitals had to start turning people away who wanted abortions, as they could not cope. Mass murder, seizing of property, destruction of anything remotely related to christianity (no churches are left). That pretty much was the case.

Yes, I agree, that happened.

Were you dropped on your head as a baby, perhaps a dozen times?

"Then listen to me, Mr. Ambassador," said the President of the United States, "fuck your Parliament and your Constitution. America, is an elephant. Cyprus is a flea. If these two fleas continue itching the elephant, they may just get whacked by the elephant's trunk, whacked good . . . We pay a lot of good American dollars to the Greeks, Mr. Ambassador. If your Prime Minister gives me talk about Democracy, Parliament and Constitutions, he, his Parliament and his Constitution may not last very long."

I can kind of understand now, why people like Osama Bin Laden do the things they do.

Well, Troll, NWV ... I'm looking at the whole thing as an identity based conflict... nobody gains when it is seen as resource-based conflict. There cannot be a territoral division that would satisfy both sides...
I'm for a solution that respects the identity needs of every party... and that's what I study.

I do not know you NWV... but I see that's needed.
The Turks can not possibly be as evil as you portray them as. ;)

Yes, we know you hate the Turks...now link me! Show me evidence that the Turks are really this bad and I want an UNBIAS source!
Well there are the UNHCR reports that came out a few years after the invasion. You could probably pick them up somewhere, as it happens I have a copy though. I could quote some things out of it if necessary, and I find your utter disbelief at finding out Turks committed war crimes in Cyprus astounding. Were you brought up to believe that Turks did no wrong in Cyprus or something?

The Turks can not possibly be as evil as you portray them as. ;)

Read the refugees accounts from the UNCHR reports. You will change your mind pretty quick - Some of the things I read in there just made my blood boil. And The Turkish Army has had a History of horrifying War Crimes - why don't you believe they did anything wrong in this case?

Well there are the UNHCR reports that came out a few years after the invasion. You could probably pick them up somewhere, as it happens I have a copy though. I could quote some things out of it if necessary, and I find your utter disbelief at finding out Turks committed war crimes in Cyprus astounding. Were you brought up to believe that Turks did no wrong in Cyprus or something?
No, I was brought up to stop giving a damn about the rest of the world because it's fucked up and I can't do a damn thing about it. Besides, no race of people is perfect, that's why I'm not bothering to make radical declarations...

Read the refugees accounts from the UNCHR reports. You will change your mind pretty quick - Some of the things I read in there just made my blood boil. And The Turkish Army has had a History of horrifying War Crimes - why don't you believe they did anything wrong in this case?

Oh, read my post again... I do believe the turks did commit crimes, but so did the Greeks in the sixties. I'm not in the blaminng business.

I can kind of understand now, why people like Osama Bin Laden do the things they do.
Welcome to the club NWV, we wondered when you would figure out the secret.

No, really. It's not that hard to figure out. Funny thing is, I go against your logic. I'm a patriotic American, and I acknowledge this and see it as a problem thanks to the corruption within our nation.

Unless you've changed your mind that not all those who love their country are blinded by their patriotism?

No, I was brought up to stop giving a damn about the rest of the world because it's fucked up and I can't do a damn thing about it. Besides, no race of people is perfect, that's why I'm not bothering to make radical declarations...

Perhaps you should take a damn good look at The Turkish Army and The Turkish Government, perhaps you take a good look at thier idea of 'freedom' and 'honorability in battle' I'm sure you will be pleasently surprised. As the Kurds, Armenians and Cypriots were.

Oh, read my post again... I do believe the turks did commit crimes, but so did the Greeks in the sixties. I'm not in the blaminng business.

That won't make sense to him.

If you say both sides did bad things, he percieves it as you saying the Turks were innocent.

Unless you've changed your mind that not all those who love their country are blinded by their patriotism?

It depends on how you love your country in my mind. Loving the people and democracy or loving the Government and Hegemony? Thats the big question.

That won't make sense to him.

If you say both sides did bad things, he percieves it as you saying the Turks were innocent.

Nope, its that you equate the crimes committed by a few Greek Cypriots to mass murder and mass rape. To be honest I just find that insulting.

Wheeelll, I'm an outsider... I couldn't tell who is wrong or right... there are websites totally committed to this... I do not read them, and I do not want this thread to come 'who is right - who wrong'. The cyprus conundrum is way too difficult to be solved in NS forum. :)

I'd still be thankful if you could direct me to articles I have neglected NWV.

peace

In reference to Andreas Papandreou, who wished to take Greece out of the Cold War.

"We gave the son of a bitch American citizenship, didn't we? He was an American, with all the rights and privileges. And he had sworn allegiance to the flag. And then he gave up his American citizenship. He went back to just being a Greek. You can't trust a man who breaks his oath of allegiance to the flag of the United States."

LBJ really was a War crimes committing, child murdering, illegal war fighting piece of shit wasn't he?

Nope, its that you equate the crimes committed by a few Greek Cypriots to mass murder and mass rape. To be honest I just find that insulting.

You didn't look at the link I gave you, did you?

http://www.greece.org/cyprus/Takism5.htm

"The government, about which the good General was so ebulient, was that of the Colonels' junta which came to power in a military coup in April 1967, followed immediately by the traditional martial law, censorship, arrests, beatings, torture, and killings, the victims totaling some 8,000 in the first month."

It depends on how you love your country in my mind. Loving the people and democracy or loving the Government and Hegemony? Thats the big question.
Well you kept on...telling people that because they loved America that they automatically loved their government and are blinded.

And, what I love is the democracy (it could use improvement) and our ideals. I don't think any other nation, IMHO, has founded itself on such ideals nor has fought so hard to secure those ideals.

I'd still be thankful if you could direct me to articles I have neclected NWV.

peace

I know you will criticize me for this, but I am downloading the Counter Strike: Source beta, and its nearly ready. So I don't really have the time to scour the net at the moment, all I can advise you to do is read some Cyprus Mail articles (it is in English), and read some direct reports from the victims, The UNHCR report is difficult to get hold of, so I would just look for some of the direct reports on thier own.

You didn't look at the link I gave you, did you?

http://www.greece.org/cyprus/Takism5.htm

"The government, about which the good General was so ebulient, was that of the Colonels' junta which came to power in a military coup in April 1967, followed immediately by the traditional martial law, censorship, arrests, beatings, torture, and killings, the victims totaling some 8,000 in the first month."

Indeed. The Junta was disliked by all - and they mostly killed Greek Cypriots opposed to thier beliefs - from ideological opposites. I never said I liked the Junta, and your understanding of it is extremely poor to use it as a justification for Turkish War Crimes.

God dammit you fucking moron, I wasn't justifying the Turks.

Get it through your fucking skull.

LBJ really was a War crimes committing, child murdering, illegal war fighting piece of shit wasn't he?
Oh Yeah, he is personnaly responsible for the "quagmire" of Viet Nam by micromanaging the war in the white house war room. By the way, the US never lost a major battle in Viet Nam, but the media then and now misrepresents that war, like they do now.

I know you will criticize me for this, but I am downloading the Counter Strike: Source beta, and its nearly ready. So I don't really have the time to scour the net at the moment, all I can advise you to do is read some Cyprus Mail articles (it is in English), and read some direct reports from the victims, The UNHCR report is difficult to get hold of, so I would just look for some of the direct reports on thier own.
Oh, no worries. I do follow the Turkish and Greek papers. I was more after some radical stuff. I have plenty (if not all) of the studies made. I just need the partisan views on paper.

Oh Yeah, he is personnaly responsible for the "quagmire" of Viet Nam by micromanaging the war in the white house war room. By the way, the US never lost a major battle in Viet Nam, but the media then and now misrepresents that war, like they do now.

Ok, out, this isn't one of those Hollywood Rambo Threads about how you never lost the Vietnam War and Chuck Norris won it all by himself.

LBJ was a moron, he authorised the mass bombing raids, he authorised The Guld of Tongkin Incident (The false pretext for the War). And he was the one that authorised the use of Napalm. Though I don't blame him entirely, bombing is the most dehumanizing form of murder there is.

Sorry to interrupt the derailment of this thread, but I'm going to bring you back on track.I've decided to hit back at all the EU haters, such as paranoid individuals like UKIP. And explain a few things.And I'm going to explain to you why you're wrong. (And stop pretending that opposition to the EU comes entirely from the right. The popular opposition to the EU summit in Gothenburg was called by Swedish anti-fascists.

The European Union is a collection of democratic sovereign states who are co-operating on a democratic basis.No, the EU is a capitalist class project. Every decision in the European Union is made by governments which we elect, and those decisions are ratified by parliaments who we elect. The idea that somehow this is some sort of great conspiracy by an awful green man in Brussels somehow forcing us to abandon our nationhood when we've got no say on it is so far removed from reality as to be ridiculous. What about the unelected EU commisioners. And I couldn't give a fuck about nationhood. It's the economic standardisation, committing every EU member to a capitalist free market economy that I object to. Even social democracy is untenable in the EU, it is forbidden for members to limit the powers of multinationals in order to benefit the working classes of their countries.

Europe is democratic, it needs to be more democratic, that is why Representatives are trying to have a constitutional treaty which will include increased democracy in particular by giving more power back to member states and increasing the role of national parliaments, that is what its about, making sure that they do deal with the democratic deficit that has existed in the past and that is gradually being eroded.It is impossible for the EU to be democratic. It contains to many people. We need the decentralisation of power not the increased federalism the EU represents.

Europhilia has grown in recent times, particurlarly in Britain thanks to the influences of such noble people as Irwin Stelzer - his relationship with Bush and thus with Blair is extremely unnerving, as is the fact he is considered by many to be a 'bastion of American efforts to undermine the EU'.Actually the US ruling class is largely in favour of the EU. It allows them the simplicity of only having to negoiate with one entity rather then lots.

Yes, we know you hate the Turks...now link me! Show me evidence that the Turks are really this bad and I want an UNBIAS source!

He won't provide it; Nazi Weaponized Virus can't prove anything he says as truth. We've seen it throughout this thread and every other one he posts in; he doesn't have time to "search" for the links but directs us to do it. That's not how debate works, that's how deception works. Plain and simple, ladies and gentlemen.

He won't provide it; Nazi Weaponized Virus can't prove anything he says as truth. We've seen it throughout this thread and every other one he posts in; he doesn't have time to "search" for the links but directs us to do it. That's not how debate works, that's how deception works. Plain and simple, ladies and gentlemen.

My God, my own Uncle died because of those dogs. And you are telling me the reports of human rights abuses are all made up or something? You truly are a bastard.

My God, my own Uncle died because of those dogs. And you are telling me the reports of human rights abuses are all made up or something? You truly are a bastard.
You've got a telegram NVW.

You've got a telegram NVW.

Hehe, I read it, Totally agree with you.

Denial of War crimes when The UNHCR Reports say there were war crimes, and members of my family experienced them really piss me off.

What country are you from?

Commonwealth of Virginia

What do you guys know about the genocide of WWI? I actually didn't know about it until a couple days ago.

http://www.hri.org/docs/Democide/

What do you guys know about the genocide of WWI? I actually didn't know about it until a couple days ago.

http://www.hri.org/docs/Democide/
I know the Russians did the same with the Armenians on their side of the border.

Alas, Tuesday, your comments fell on deaf ears.

Ok, out, this isn't one of those Hollywood Rambo Threads about how you never lost the Vietnam War and Chuck Norris won it all by himself.

LBJ was a moron, he authorised the mass bombing raids, he authorised The Guld of Tongkin Incident (The false pretext for the War). And he was the one that authorised the use of Napalm. Though I don't blame him entirely, bombing is the most dehumanizing form of murder there is.


You bitch at Americans who supposedly talk about things they don't understand? Then I should expect a higher standard from you.

I despise Turkey and its like as much as the next man, but you Eurotrash make it really hard for me to support you with your pompous attitudes.

....You all hate far, far too much, and far, far too easily.

Sad, really. Just so sad.

First off, you Europeans. I'm dissapointed in you. So many of you claim that you're tolerant, peace loving, anti-facisim, ect....yet...you embrace slandering the US, because it's popular. Your tolerance is negated by the rabid hate you have for anything not of your own position. You encourage a centralized, socialistic society, even though time and time again it's been proven it doesnt work so well. You claim the moral authority, yet you're quick to come down and wax condecending upon others, hating people who dont believe as you do. Open, objective Europeans, indeed.

And you, Americans! My own people, who I'm sworn to defend. I suppose we do come across harsh-its one of those things you end up accquiring, in a country where survival of the fittest is the game....but thats no excuse for us to go off blindly hating people as well. So often we tend to perpetuate the image that we're nothing more than a bunch of warmongering dogs, simply because of how we think and act is so different and alien to others. We cant act like we're perfect, sure as hell cant act like we do no wrong. And we certianly cant keep being arrogant. Neither can the europeans. These days, no one can really afford it.


I dunno, maybe i'm rambling nonsense at the moment, with a combination of lack of sleep and the percocet (containing codine) that I'm taking for the two teeth I had yoinked yesterday, all coming together to make a totally incoherent arguement. But at least I hope the spirit of it is there. My intent isnt to start a flamewar..its just to say...I expect better of us all, really.

Thats all.

Forgive me, of course, if this IS all nonsense. I'll probably look at it in the morning and say "what the hell was I thinking...."

iLock pending Moderator review.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

After review, I have decided that this topic shall remain locked. Warnings have been issued here (http://www.forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=6827178).

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
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