NationStates Jolt Archive

This is mainly with an aim on American 'culture.'

It is a commonly subscribed to view in Britain (maybe even Europe) that America is without a culture (and a view, which I am ashamed to admit, that I used to hold). The common things which people see as 'culture' are things such as the Arts (Literature, Art ect.) and symbols of national identity.

Using the dictionary definition (here (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=culture), it is quite long), the USA can certainly fulfil all of these (apart from the biological definitions).

But anyway.
What is Culture?
Is there such thing as American Culture?

This is a tough question to answer. America certainly does have culture... a whole bunch of them. I'd even say it was a cultural melting pot.

I also used to hold the opinion that America was cultureless, but understand that this is not entirely true.

Beig a new nation, our culture just isn't as well defined as say India's or Chinas. We are all over the place and you will find many differing cultures within one American city.

American culture is kind of gross in some respects and beautiful in others (although I know beauty/grossness is in the eye of the beholder).

Look at American architecture for example compared to that of Europe or China. It's so stale and boring (also subjective I know). I wish that new buildings/homes/skyscrapers/sidewalks/fences/whatever has a LOT more aesthetic appeal. I wish our cities were more nature oriented and there were more and bigger parks with lots of trees.

Really, this is a highly subjective but you can say that the staleness is part of the American culture. That the lack of beauty in our buildings and lack of a proper education in our population is our culture. I just htink that we should follow a path of beauty rather than a cold business-like whatevers cheaper to build kind of mentality. Citizens would have much mroe respect for things and I bet graffiti and litter would not be as much of a problem.

And heres another question: how far does tradition tie in with culture?

Soulless capitalism is sort of a culture :p

America is one of the most cultured nations in the world. A few days in America, travelling East, West, North, and South, and you'll see what we mean.

There's definatly more culture around in Southern California and the immediate Los Angelos area. I don't know much about New York, although I'm sure it holds a lot of culture.

I'd like to here the views of those that voted 'no.' (Dobbs Town, Joseph Curwen)

I understand Sumamba Buwhan's point about being being a new country, and therefore having a less defined culture, but it is still there. Although I am interested in why you thought that America was cultureless (you are an American, no?)

I think in terms of Europe, our own culture (as in 'high' culture like the arts) tends to eclipse America's, leaving the appereance of a lack of Culture. Also in Europe, American culture tends only to extend as far as pop music, cinema, TV and fast food (not your greatest ambassadors imho). Which, may as it be seeming politicaly incorrect, seems to be 'prolefeed' to some.

Personally I feel that American culture is far more modern then the cultures of the old world. It manifests itself in film, music and TV etc. rather then things that Europeans might see as cultural like literature, art, architecture (don't get me wrong though, the US has produced some fantastic authors, playrights, artist etc.).

I think this may tie into my answer to Sumamba Buwhan's question; "how far does tradition tie in with culture?" I would a lot. National dress, customs, cuisine for example are also seen as being part of a countries culture. America may have these, but they do not seem to be as defined (although you excel in holiday names, Independence day, thankgiving and such like, in Britain we get 'bank' holidays).

Culture is kind of like an accent, it's impossible not to have one (unless you don't talk, I guess).

I have travelled all 50 states and yes it does have cultures!

You can't really label it one culture. There are many regional aspects. There are many that are unique to a state.

Finally everybody has a cultural persuasion. It's just not possible to not.....

I'd like to here the views of those that voted 'no.' (Dobbs Town, Joseph Curwen)

I understand Sumamba Buwhan's point about being being a new country, and therefore having a less defined culture, but it is still there. Although I am interested in why you thought that America was cultureless (you are an American, no?)

I think in terms of Europe, our own culture (as in 'high' culture like the arts) tends to eclipse America's, leaving the appereance of a lack of Culture. Also in Europe, American culture tends only to extend as far as pop music, cinema, TV and fast food (not your greatest ambassadors imho). Which, may as it be seeming politicaly incorrect, seems to be 'prolefeed' to some.

Personally I feel that American culture is far more modern then the cultures of the old world. It manifests itself in film, music and TV etc. rather then things that Europeans might see as cultural like literature, art, architecture (don't get me wrong though, the US has produced some fantastic authors, playrights, artist etc.).

I think this may tie into my answer to Sumamba Buwhan's question; "how far does tradition tie in with culture?" I would a lot. National dress, customs, cuisine for example are also seen as being part of a countries culture. America may have these, but they do not seem to be as defined (although you excel in holiday names, Independence day, thankgiving and such like, in Britain we get 'bank' holidays).

I think you pretty much answered for me with "...think in terms of Europe, our own culture (as in 'high' culture like the arts) tends to eclipse America's, leaving the appereance of a lack of Culture."

In comparison with other older nations I just felt like America had no culture, because mainly I hated how ugly our cities are and based my opinoin solely on that (lol) but obviously once I gave it a little thought I revised that opinion.

So we are after an accent, we all have it unless we do not talk which is to communicate.

Do we think culture defines behaviour?

Behaviour is communication to your surroundings to do what needs to be done. Or with humans there is thought telling what to do what to do.....

So we are after why we do what to understand and make sense?

We just love to think talk about others what how when where.

I am a moralist.

With atmosphere it sure feels different to live abroad, to live in different places. So I think and feel nature has impact maybe is enlarged by habit, ritual and generations of humans.

But I see and feel people, individuals behave very similar, with an accent and different in way of expressing but identical in thought-feelings.

So to me human beings are equal, not out of some right of what I think should be or want others to be but simply as an experience.
I would love to find the process of our identical behaviour, you think in a certain tongue, unless you do not have one to speak of, hihi.

The mother tongue seems to give you your range, ability to speak heart and mind together with personal parents, others around you.
During process of learning how to cope, deal with it all we get thought to think about oneself, others, and everything. Like a manual to get maximum yield almost.

We all talk to ourselves almost without stop and usually in your native speech. We make up a unique repetitive personality combined with personal history aging away.
As years grow you see most persons more fixated into worry and other unnatural acts.

I think this talk has basic similarities in every language and makes ourselves the centrepiece of our importance, which turns into a specific accent of behaviour that is.

No doubt we have the wonders of thought, science, feelings, construction, and comfort.

But we all have a personality looking over our shoulder so up close you can smell the fear when speaking of love.

I think we are basically split in two and that the upcoming storm will let us get a good look at our situation. I think it is fact that we all have an internal struggle not caused by culture or upbringing but something longer ago. There are stories such as the garden being moulded into peasantry into machine cities into I robot. Creepy.

I refuse to accept that my pettiness or foolishness is natural since I have my nature, always have, maybe not always will…………….you start all natural, then get socialized, loose your energy living slavery when growing sick old and helpless die. We also agree and think sickness comes with age while you are waiting your turn to go.

I think we pay for stupidity like, fast driving, dope including Mcfried and other stuff you can indulge, passing time being entertained, worry about your body, other bodies, liking being liked loved. Excessive self concern in your talk active head when I think we need to prepare for what is to come. Your own personal appointment with death and the serious global condition we find ourselves in, each in his or her local way.

The United States definitely has culture. From state to state you would notice that people have different "rituals" or ways of doing things. Like Insane Troll said, "Culture is like an accent, it is impossible not to have one."

I think that the US has a culture that has been taken from Europe back when we were colonies, and since then both infused with new cultures (ie China, Africa), and changed with the nature of our country (ie tv sitcoms). I think it is undeniable we have a culture, it's just we lack the highbrow culture in the form of the cathedrals and classical music/composers and social nicieties of Europe, leading some to say we have none.

The United States definitely has culture. From state to state you would notice that people have different "rituals" or ways of doing things. Like Insane Troll said, "Culture is like an accent, it is impossible not to have one."


That is so very true. We also call the same things by different names. For example the two words Pop and Soda. Most states call it Soda, but in Michigan it is known as Pop.

You cant not have a cluture.

It might seem like we don't have "high" culture as one person termed it, but we do, you just have to dig a little, as much of it doesn't make though the mainstream. Try looking up the Trans-Siberian Orchestra, strange name for an american band, but they do some of the greatest music I've heard. we also have quite a few good authors, though I'm not sure about that recently as political autobiographies have been the top sellers for awhile. Just look a little, you can find it.

I've always held fascination with dictionary definition justification and reasoning - it is mainly used when the involved party tries to break a topic which is not lateral, down into lateral terms, but there you go.

I don't think The US has a culture, when I look at the US I don't see a country like France or Italy - I just see hyper-consumer culture epitomised. Though most people will vote 'yes' on this point out of sheer patriotism - there is no way the US will ever be considered as 'cultured' as say Italy or France. Its things like the difference in lifestyle and general attitude of the people. As they say about Paris "Its the only City in the World where you will see a road sweeper talking to a Businessman." America strives for culture of this sort but truth be told, it simply doesn't have it. So it uses the justification of ethnic immigrants culture. Does France do that? No, because it has a culture of its own.

I've always held fascination with dictionary definition justification and reasoning - it is mainly used when the involved party tries to break a topic which is not lateral, down into lateral terms, but there you go.

I don't think The US has a culture, when I look at the US I don't see a country like France or Italy - I just see hyper-consumer culture epitomised. Though most people will vote 'yes' on this point out of sheer patriotism - there is no way the US will ever be considered as 'cultured' as say Italy or France. Its things like the difference in lifestyle and general attitude of the people. As they say about Paris "Its the only City in the World where you will see a road sweeper talking to a Businessman." America strives for culture of this sort but truth be told, it simply doesn't have it. So it uses the justification of ethnic immigrants culture. Does France do that? No, because it has a culture of its own.
So basically, your saying that since we don't strip one of their customs and way of life, we have no culture?

And I can bet that more than half of the people saying "Yes" on the poll are non-American.

So basically, your saying that since we don't strip one of their customs and way of life, we have no culture?

And I can bet that more than half of the people saying "Yes" on the poll are non-American.

If you do have a culture, it is comprised of ethnic cultures and hence not the American-Euro Immigrant culture which is basically consumer culture. And there is no way you can compare it to a culture like the French, Italians or Greeks. Doing so simply out of patriotism is ridiculous.

I've always held fascination with dictionary definition justification and reasoning - it is mainly used when the involved party tries to break a topic which is not lateral, down into lateral terms, but there you go.

I don't think The US has a culture, when I look at the US I don't see a country like France or Italy - I just see hyper-consumer culture epitomised. Though most people will vote 'yes' on this point out of sheer patriotism - there is no way the US will ever be considered as 'cultured' as say Italy or France. Its things like the difference in lifestyle and general attitude of the people. As they say about Paris "Its the only City in the World where you will see a road sweeper talking to a Businessman." America strives for culture of this sort but truth be told, it simply doesn't have it. So it uses the justification of ethnic immigrants culture. Does France do that? No, because it has a culture of its own.

Because of all the immigrants living together from many different countries we have developed our own culture. Our culture is simply a big mixture of many different other cultures, but that doesn't mean it isn't a culture. I know that is confusing but try to understand it.

Because of all the immigrants living together from many different countries we have developed our own culture. Our culture is simply a big mixture of many different other cultures, but that doesn't mean it isn't a culture. I know that is confusing but try to understand it.

How is it a 'melting pot' style of culture? Explain to me? I don't see people walking down the street wearing African shoes, Italian Trousers, Old Greek Shirts and Irish Hats. Culture doesn't work like that - as the ethnic minorities tend to keep themselves in monetary and friendship terms in America, as they do in Britain. Many call this insular, but I jusat tend to get on better with Greeks than I do other people as we have something more to talk about. Having said that I am still friends with people who aren't Greek (but they still tend to come from an ethnic background).

I'm sorry but when the outside World looks at America - they don't see culture in the sense of real culture similar to when they look at a country like France. Saying its so doesn't make it so. And neither does saying you have because of Immigration - I think a more applicable sentence would be 'America has no culture of it's own'.

Oh and don't even go into describing culture as McDonalds or Coca Cola type manefstations - Foreign Investment does not equal culture.

All humans have culture. Culture is universal to humans, and a human being without culture could not function normally in human society. It is because of culture that humans can adapt to a wide range of climates and eviroments due to our ability to retain and dissminate information and ideas.

All humans have culture. Culture is universal to humans, and a human being without culture could not function normally in human society. It is because of culture that humans can adapt to a wide range of climates and eviroments due to our ability to retain and dissminate information and ideas.

Rhetoric. How does culture enable us to adapt to different environments?

Its not as if human settling on the south pole start getting cold and suddenly go 'hang on, why dont we do our native dance? That will help us adapt!'

America has a hyper-culture in a Baudrillardian sense. This is why it seems less 'cultured' in the euro-centric sense of the arts etc (the distinction between 'low' and 'high' culture is almost by definition elitist) in that it has a structurally different form of culture, that is hard for most Europeans (of which I am one) to recognise because it differs from their (culturally derived) sense of what culture is.

Yes, there is capitalistic dimension to this. The culture industry, the commercialisation of cultural products, is dominated by capitalist incentives and motivations. To this extent it is somewhat removed from the people. But then the very same could be said of European 'high' culture.

I agree that all socities have a culture. In the sense of a shared set of meanings. This is not deterministic, people can escape from their culture of origin or change it in meaningful ways, they are influenced by, rather than defined by their cultures. Culture is a discursive, socially constructed and contingent human product.

.....Well, to properly answer this question, you need to first answer the question "What Is Culture?"

Culture is something you find growing on the bottom of a petri dish. So yes, the US has plenty of culture. Of course, Europeans claim to have more, many a time, sooo......

Of course America has culture, and it even has some Culture.

As said earlier, culture is like an accent. Culture (with a capital) is slightly different, and is seen as "high-brow" culture. America has some of this, but not much, just simply because it is so young. But there are some fantastic artists, writers and architects in America, who are slowly evolving separately from Europe and their traditional roots. Given enough time, America will have a high-brow culture to rival Europe's, it just needs to evolve on its own for a while, in its current state, too much is influenced by other countries, and not by artist’s ideas.

The evolution of this culture is so slow because it is not supported enough. There is a great deal more money available in Europe to support artists, that Americans just aren't willing to pay for. They seem to prefer to see there money sunk into technology, rather than art, and invest in science rather than music; they prefer functional to beautiful buildings.

Until Americans realise the value of Culture, their society will have to make do with culture.

http://www.wsu.edu:8001/vcwsu/commons/topics/culture/glossary/culture.html

A recent etymology of the word "culture":
Look in an old dictionary -- say, a pre-1960 Webster's -- and you'll likely find a definition of culture that looks something like this: "1. The cultivation of soil. 2. The raising, improvement, or development of some plant, animal or product" (Friend and Guralnik 1958). This use of the word has its roots in the ancient Latin word cultura, "cultivation" or "tending," and its entrance into the English language had begun by the year 1430 (Oxford English Dictionary). By the time the Webster's definition above was written, another definition had begun to take precedence over the old Latin denotation; culture was coming to mean "the training, development, and refinement of mind, tastes, and manners" (Oxford English Dictionary). The OED traces this definition, which today we associate with the phrase " high culture," back as far as 1805; by the middle of the 20th century, it was fast becoming the word's primary definition.
However, if you try a more modern source, like the American Heritage English Dictionary, you'll find a primary definition of culture which is substantially different than either of the two given above: "The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought." Why such a difference, and in such a (relatively) short period of time? Well, in the past 40 years, the use of the word "culture" has been heavily influenced by the academic fields of sociology and cultural anthropology. These fields have gradually brought what was once a minor definition of culture (the last of eight definitions given in the old 1958 Webster's quoted above) into the mainstream.

It is easy to imagine how the U.S. society which was so focused on "socially transmitted behavior patterns" in the sixties would come to need a word to describe the object of its interest. The civil rights movement during this era brought everyone's attention to bear on cultural differences within U.S. society, while the Vietnam War served to emphasize the position of the U.S. culture in relation to other world cultures.

Over time, these new uses for the word culture have eclipsed its older meanings, those associated with cultivation of the land and the production of crops. You might say that an aspect of U.S. culture over the past 40 years is its fascination with the issue of culture itself -- a fascination which has brought about many changes in the way we speak and the meanings of words which we commonly use.

I disagree that the US has a culture of its own. The US has a european culture which has been modified by its geography. It's rule of law is european; its moral philosophy is european; it's liberalism-based foundation is of a european origin. Most of the important aspects of its core is not of its own making, but from a european origin. Thus, the US can not be said to have a culture of its own.

However, time and geography of course has meant that the kernel it has from Europe has been expanded and modified somewhat to give the nation its own quirks and charms.

"A high degree of taste and refinement formed by aesthetic and intellectual training. "

By this definition, many Europeans would say that America lacks culture. It would be more accurate to not use the term culture, as this has to many other connotations.

For those who wished to say this, it would be better to say that "Americans lack taste and refinement, and have a lack of aesthetic training."

Culture? Isn't that the stuff that grows on top of cheese if you leave it in the fridge too long? :confused:

Culture? Isn't that the stuff that grows on top of cheese if you leave it in the fridge too long? :confused:

If it's on American Cheese, then it's an American Culture. ;)

I'm sorry but when the outside World looks at America - they don't see culture in the sense of real culture similar to when they look at a country like France.

Is that because a lack of culture or because in Europe, European culture eclipses American culture.

Saying its so doesn't make it so. And neither does saying you have because of Immigration - I think a more applicable sentence would be 'America has no culture of it's own'.

Surely Americans create American culture. And to use 'high' Culture, how are Twain, Steinbeck, Miller, James, Soul and Blues not culture? Surely all of these are nearly independent of the European roots.

Besides, saying 'America has no culture of it's own' doesn't mean it doesn't have culture ;).
Oh and don't even go into describing culture as McDonalds or Coca Cola type manefstations - Foreign Investment does not equal culture.
Why?

If you do have a culture, it is comprised of ethnic cultures and hence not the American-Euro Immigrant culture which is basically consumer culture. And there is no way you can compare it to a culture like the French, Italians or Greeks. Doing so simply out of patriotism is ridiculous.
Since I am British and have no particular love of America, this is not Patriotism. But their are many facets of American culture that can equal or surpass parts of European culture.

I disagree that the US has a culture of its own. The US has a european culture which has been modified by its geography. It's rule of law is european; its moral philosophy is european; it's liberalism-based foundation is of a european origin. Most of the important aspects of its core is not of its own making, but from a european origin. Thus, the US can not be said to have a culture of its own.

So because the central founding aspects are European, it is impossible to develope culture?

However, time and geography of course has meant that the kernel it has from Europe has been expanded and modified somewhat to give the nation its own quirks and charms.
Which is uniquely American, and part of its culture.

Why?

Because that is like saying the sweatshops made by the bastard capitalists in Vietnam and other places in the World = Culture. To put it simply, because a *product* is well manufactured it doesn't mean the products country of origin has culture. Especially if it is a fast food restaraunt. :)

And stop bashing your own continent, Americans do that to us enough already.

Because that is like saying the sweatshops made by the bastard capitalists in Vietnam and other places in the World = Culture. To put it simply, because a *product* is well manufactured it doesn't mean the products country of origin has culture. Especially if it is a fast food restaraunt. :)

And stop bashing your own continent, Americans do that to us enough already.

You really are a virus.

Since I am British and have no particular love of America, this is not Patriotism. But their are many facets of American culture that can equal or surpass parts of European culture.



So because the central founding aspects are European, it is impossible to develope culture?

Well, it's a none-starter to speak of a continent-wide culture anyhow, so if we do we have to compare continent-wide american culture to continent-wide european culture and disregard the different subsets within those continents.

In that perspective the differences between american culture and european culture are negligent. They're not sufficiently different to be considered separate and unique cultures.

Now, if we go down to more local levels... Of course there is a difference between New England-culture and French culture. Of course there is a difference between Scandinavian culture and Texan culture. But there is also a difference between New England-culture and Texan culture.

Let's call it a Western culture, then, this joint superculture of ours, which is the same, really. The totality can be compared to other, unique and different cultures such as the chinese culture of the Hindu culture.

Let's call it a Western culture, then, this joint superculture of ours, which is the same, really. The totality can be compared to other, unique and different cultures such as the chinese culture of the Hindu culture.

I know what you're getting at, but can we not? it's highly reductionist, you've shown that yourself by your examples. Additionally, down that path lies the racist/imperialist nonsense of people like Sam Huntingdon and his purile 'Clash of Civilisations' rubbish

The USA has the best and most entertaining Culture in the world, I love it here!

Thats just western Europe's way of saying. We were wrong about monarchy, we were wrong about split nations, and we were wrong to attack and lose to you time and again. But, instead of apologizing, the now politically worthless europeans call us war mongerers. Even though their history is full of more wars than our country could even compare to.


That said, I don't neccasarily agree with the iraq crisis either. It's just that I'm aware of foreign hypocrisy.

And stop bashing your own continent, Americans do that to us enough already.
And when have I bashed my oen continent?

Or in your eyes does enjoying the work of Americans constitute Europe bashing?

Because that is like saying the sweatshops made by the bastard capitalists in Vietnam and other places in the World = Culture.

Who built the Pyramids (NB, not who commissioned them, but who built them)?

If something is built or made using slavery does not automatically mean that it cannot contribute to culture.

To put it simply, because a *product* is well manufactured it doesn't mean the products country of origin has culture. Especially if it is a fast food restaraunt.


Fine.

Thats just western Europe's way of saying. We were wrong about monarchy, we were wrong about split nations, and we were wrong to attack and lose to you time and again. But, instead of apologizing, the now politically worthless europeans call us war mongerers. Even though their history is full of more wars than our country could even compare to.

We have been around a lot longer though.

However, we have had more then our fair shares of wars. But why does it give another nation the right just because we did it?

Thats just western Europe's way of saying. We were wrong about monarchy, we were wrong about split nations, and we were wrong to attack and lose to you time and again. But, instead of apologizing, the now politically worthless europeans call us war mongerers. Even though their history is full of more wars than our country could even compare to.


That said, I don't neccasarily agree with the iraq crisis either. It's just that I'm aware of foreign hypocrisy.

I'm going to ignore the supposedly 'factual' claims you made there and focus on the logic, or perhaps that should be the ethics

A charge of hypocrisy does weaken the moral postion of one party with regard to the other party. Therefore Western Europe's tradition of Imperialism may weaken it's postion with regard to condeming American imperialist actions. However, this does nothing to answer the important question, are the actions wrong or right in-an-of-themselves.

There are two questions to answer. Europe may not have any moral highground to stand on with regard to condemnation of US actions, but that doesnt mean that the actions should not be condemned.